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Comments for the week ending September 29, 2013

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****A wrecking ball smashes through the Comment Room wall. As the ball swings back through the hole it made, Blaise jumps down from where he had been clinging onto the ball.**** It seems to take more drastic measures for me to get myself back here....

Hey all! It's been a while, but I couldn't let yesterday pass without saying something.

...okay, I did let it pass, but that's because I was busy running around yesterday. So, here I am today to say:

GREG WEISMAN> Happy (belated) Birthday! And many happy returns, sir!

****Blaise adds yet another cake to the table, and walks out through the hole in the wall, which repairs itself instantaneously.****

Blaise
"Some days you're the pigeon. Some days you're the statue."

Ah, missed it. Well, happy belated birthday, Mr. Weisman!
Ross

Well, happy birthday if we're still allowed to say so.
ESG

Happy belated, Greg!
Spen

Congratulations on the semicentennial, oh great wise man.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Happy birthday, Greg!!
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true.." -Shari

Had no idea it was Greg Weisman's birthday until I checked in here. I'm a little late, but happy birthday!
Melissa
Rewatching Gargoyles and blogging about it - http://ramblingsofpicturebox.blogspot.com/

Thanks for all the birthday wishes, gang!! You guys ROCK - like the muppets!
Greg Weisman

Mr. W, Wishing you the happiest of birthdays. :)
SomeGeek

Happy Birthday Greg!
Matthew
"Shall we their fond pageant see? Lord, what fools these mortals be!"-Puck

Happy birthday, Mr. Weisman.
Harlan Phoenix
The enemy is clever. We're smaller but whatever. When we put it together, I'll form the head.

For Greg...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkB6ugFKi3g

Algernon
"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and DON'T blink." ~Tenth Doctor.

Happy birthday, Greg!
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Can you believe it?

Today, both Greg Weisman and Vinnie Grigori turn the big 5-0.

Many happy returns all around!

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Why try? I know why. The feeling inside me says it's time I was gone..." - Rush

Happy Birthday, Greg!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

**places cake on the cookie table**

Happy birthday, Greg Weisman!

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

I love Secret of Kells so much.
Harlan Phoenix
The enemy is clever. We're smaller but whatever. When we put it together, I'll form the head.

REBEL> Well, that certainly sounds... Different.

So, last night I had a chance to watch "Secret of Kells" for the first time. I only regret it took me four years to do so because it really is a gem. Highly recommended for anyone with an interest in Irish folklore or animation.

Also some tangential Gargoyle connections, as it features Crom Cruach as one of the main antagonists plus a cameo from St. Columba (called by his Irish name of Colm Cille).

Algernon
"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and DON'T blink." ~Tenth Doctor.

So there's this book out there called Stonecast about this modern-day female "Spellmason" (pretty sure that's fancy-talk for a witch) and Stanis, the Gargoyle who is sworn to protect her family.

I don't know how to feel about it. Just from reading the descriptions of it, my knee-jerk reaction is to assume that it's the Twilight-ification of gargoyles and to hate it automatically and hope it doesn't sell very well. But then I think about it for a second and realize that's not very fair to assume so much, when it might actually be good.

Anyway just figured I'd mention it in case someone wants to see how someone else handles fictional gargoyles.

Rebel - [rebelfornea at gmail dot com]

Yeah, I tend to think Demona put her clan with Canmore's forces before heading off with him to gloat... and then Canmore's forces went all Red Wedding on them.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

To stick my oar in, I watched "City of Stone" today and I definitely had the impression that Demona's clan was attacked and killed by Canmore's men at night, not shattered during the day.
Melissa
Rewatching Gargoyles and blogging about it - http://ramblingsofpicturebox.blogspot.com/

It's sort of funny, we got so many scenes of the Manhattan Clan breaking from their stone sleep, but on this point where it actually matters we have nothing.
ESG

Greg B> How old is Zatanna?

*Everyone else in in the room begins booing, hissing and pelting Al with rotten fruit.*

Algernon
"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and DON'T blink." ~Tenth Doctor.

Well, we know what to ask Greg once the queue re-opens.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

I tend to agree with Matt and think Demona kept her clan in cells during the alliance. Although Demona may have wanted to trust MacBeth (and I think she did) and may have told herself she did, the reality is Demona does not trust anyone, including Demona. And like her guilt, she projects that mistrust onto everyone. In fact, I don't think Demona has trusted anyone at least since that night she "met herself" in 975. (Again, including herself.)

And like Matt pointed out, just because she "trusted" MacBeth doesn't mean she trusted any other humans living in the castle.

But in addition to that (because I think her decision making is probably more complex than just the above) there are plenty of other reasons she may have chosen to keep her clan in cells. Habit, safety, maneuverability. It may well have simply made practical sense to her not to change an (unusual) arrangement that may well have been the reason her clan survived while every other clan in Scotland fell, even in they did now have a powerful human ally. And who knows, perhaps some of her clan preferred such an arrangement as well. While they may not have wanted to be at constant war with them, how far did THEY trust humans (in general) by that point?

I don't think Greg has ever addressed this directly, however the implied assumption in this question is that Demona had maintained the cells, and Greg certainly does nothing to contradict that:

Question received on Mon, April 30, 2012 11:47:13 AM
Derek writes...

So was Demona's clan all in one place when they were destroyed by Canmore? Given that Demona had previously split them in cells to ensure their survival that makes little sense. Couldn't a handful of them survived?

Greg responds...

Did Canmore say he smashed them while they slept, or did he just say that he killed them all? I can't remember at the moment.

Response recorded on September 24, 2012


I feel like I had read another one similar to that, some comment that the clan was all killed at once because they were gathered together in one place for the battle (implying that was not always the case), but if its way back in the archives I can't find it at the moment.

FTBM

Duncan himself didn't seem to have much success at hunting down the gargoyles before Macbeth unwittingly led him to Demona's lair. Nor did he seem to be as eager to hunt gargoyles as Gillecomgain was.

Sure, Duncan did take up the Hunter's Mask, but I'm inclined to believe that to Duncan it symbolized more his grudge against Macbeth and his family than his grudge against gargoyles, at least until Macbeth revealed his connection with the gargoyles.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

ESG> I think you are making a lot of assumptions. I don't believe for a second that Demona was attempting to make Canmore her ally or form any sort of alliance with him. They were just using each other to strike at their mutual target: Macbeth. They had a deal, not an alliance. And I think Demona largely showed up at Lunfanon Hill to gloat and berate Macbeth.

While I don't think Demona's Clan regularly slept at Moray, I do think Macbeth did know where they were. Probably he alone knew that. Demona did trust him, probably more than any human before or since, and she would've trusted him with that information. But I don't think she ever trusted the rest of the humans to make herself so vulnerable at Moray. Remember, from Demona's perspective the Captain of the Guard was a trusted human ally also, but he couldn't prevent the Wyvern Clan from being murdered from other humans. That's why she kept her clan hidden and in cells. Did she completely trust Bodhe? Macbeth's men? The ability of Macbeth to keep Canmore's forces out of Moray? Of course not. Understandably, she would never keep the whole clan at Moray.

The ironic thing is that by deserting Macbeth (and likely leaving their usual hiding places so Macbeth and his people couldn't find them), Demona's Clan was made very vulnerable. Exposed. Duncan's people were able to destroy the clan because Demona moved them out of safety. I believe Greg has said in the past that Canmore was able to kill them because they were grouped together as an army on the move, though I can't find it in the archives. So, again, Demona's DISTRUST of Macbeth was her undoing.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

Did Canmore and his army actually shatter Demona's clan, or simply stab them in the back by more conventional means? The way events are portrayed in "City of Stone, Part Four," it looked like Canmore's men slaughtered the gargoyles on the same night that Demona betrayed Macbeth to Canmore. If so, Canmore couldn't have shattered them in their stone sleep.

Or if there was any daylight between the two events, how could Macbeth have failed to notice that Demona and her gargoyles were out of place before Canmore was at his doorstep, and why didn't Canmore try to shatter Demona too?

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Matt> You're missing the point. How did Canmore shatter her clan? He had to know where they slept. Demona was trying to ally with Canmore, but there's no reason for Demona to just tell him where her clan slept. Logically, he was able to shatter them because they were sleeping under his men's watch. And if Demona would put her clan under Canmore's watch she would surely have done the same with Macbeth: it's one of the main advantages of such an alliance.
ESG

I think Demona trusted Macbeth...maybe not completely, but there was definitely trust there. But her innate suspicion and distrust of humans overrode her trust of Macbeth when she noticed Macbeth having a meeting without her and she jumped to conclusions. That doesn't mean she didn't trust Macbeth, it's just that her overall DIStrust of humans was greater than her trust for Macbeth as an individual.
Rebel - [rebelfornea at gmail dot com]

MATT> Important thing to keep in mind also is that Demona was a little bit in love with Macbeth there ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-IPwlO0-Ms ). Granted she was definitely in love with Goliath and didn't trust his judgement, but...

Anyway, she had to trust Macbeth somewhat. Definitely more than she's ever trusted any other human. Just not enough to overcome her own innate paranoia. Which makes the whole thing that much more tragic.

Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

ESG> You don't need to trust someone for them to kill you. I don't follow your logic there. I don't think Demona trusted Canmore AT ALL. And I think she did trust Macbeth to some extent, but not completely. If she had, as I mentioned before, she wouldn't have jumped to the conclusions she did. And since she whole-heartedly believed her conclusions, she went a little crazy and rebounded to Canmore out of spite and revenge. No trust necessary, just bat-shit crazy.

I think the only person Demona completely trusts is herself. Which is ironic because she has let herself down so many times... not that she'd ever see that or admit to it. Part of that own worst enemy thing.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

Matt> If Demona's clan didn't trust Macbeth, an ally of 37 years, to keep them safe during their sleep there's no way they'd trust Canmore. But Canmore shattered them all the same. Therefore, logically they trusted both Macbeth and Canmore.
ESG

Can I just say that I love Coyote? There's far less to him than characters like Macbeth and Demona, sure. But that doesn't stop him from entertaining. I find he works best as used in "Grief" and "Cloud Fathers," where he supplements an already good story instead of running the show himself. There's a lot to like about him.

I like his designs. 3.0 is off-balance, angular and relatively fragile, but besides that I like the lot. 4.0 especially looks sturdy and powerful, like every inch of its wiring is going to good use.

I like his personality. Thanks to the Xanatos in him he's as charismatic as a robot can get. He further augments this with a string of top-notch one liners.

I love his powers. He is the ultimate culmination of scientific weaponry in the Gargoyles verse. His abilities are so varied, and it's fun to see how he's added onto with each upgrade.

And I'm looking forward to what he'll become by 2198.

ESG

Actually, I never thought Demona and her clan slept at Moray on a regular basis. I figured Demona would never trust Macbeth enough for that. And I certainly don't think she ever completely trusted Macbeth. If you trust someone, you don't eavesdrop and jump to MASSIVE conclusions.

And the show never showed the clan sleeping at Moray. Not even once. And I can't recall Greg ever addressing it either, though I'd love to hear his thoughts on the matter. Maybe something to ask him about one day.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

A late night meeting after a battle that he didn't invite her to attend, because Bodhe didn't want her there... this was probably a first. And as his primary adviser, I think it's understandable to wonder what was up.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Though she apparently didn't trust Mac enough not to eavesdrop on him.
Algernon
"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and DON'T blink." ~Tenth Doctor.

Indeed.

On another note, Dread just reviewed Golem and Sanctuary. He really liked the latter.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=26903539

Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Of course. As I said I thought they did trust each other that way. I just wanted to nail it down with certainty.
ESG

Of course. As I said I thought they did trust each other like that. I just wanted to nail it down with certainty.
Anonymous

Yeah, if she and Macbeth didn't trust eachother, it makes the whole thing less tragic. Humans watching over gargoyles by day and gargoyles watching over humans by night... trust.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Right, right. And I just remembered that Demona trusted her clan's lives with Canmore. Surely she would have also trusted their lives with Macbeth, whom she had far more reason to trust.
ESG

Why wouldn't they? They worked with Macbeth's army. Demona was his primary adviser and held a position of power in his military. When she says "To me my warriors!" there are humans among them.

"Help me now, and I swear I'll keep them forever safe."

Later...

"The gargoyles have deserted."
"Our whole defense was planned around their aid."

Why would they keep sleeping in caves by that point? Especially at a time when Demona TRUSTED Macbeth.

They slept at Castle Moray.

Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

We never actually see them in Stone Sleep at Castle Moray though. Theoretically, it's possible that they didn't sleep there.
ESG

The show?
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Do you have a source? Again, I expect you're right, but still...
ESG

Yes, while Demona and Macbeth were allies and friends, her clan slept at Clan Moray.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Demona's clan slept at Castle Moray during the day, right? It's the main reason that gargoyles would make an alliance, right? I figured that was the case, but I heard someone argue differently. There doesn't seem to be any hard evidence either way...
ESG

PAUL> I'd say New Olympus definitely has a geographic location. It's not in some otherworldly plane like Avalon, after all. It's just invisible.
Algernon
"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and DON'T blink." ~Tenth Doctor.

PAUL> Here...

http://gargwiki.net/Clan

Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Are there any gargoyle clans in the southern hemisphere? "Walkabout" implied that there were none in Australia, and I don't think we've ever seen anything south of the equator since then.

Unless Avalon and New Olympus are in the southern hemisphere, but I'm not sure that they have a geographical location at all.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Harvest time might not seem that important to the gargoyles, since they evidently get their food through hunting and gathering (based on the few hints we've had) rather than through agriculture.

But I'd forgotten about what Greg Weisman said about the significance of the equinoxes to gargoyle biological cycles.

The "Rain of the Ghosts" books mean all the more to me than "Star Wars Rebels", since I don't have cable (I assume that's what it'll be airing on), while the books will be easily available at the local bookstore (and if it doesn't put them on its shelves, I can order them).

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Todd> It wouldn't surprise me if the gargoyles at least observed the autumnal equinox as in many different cultures it's strongly tied to the harvest season. I believe they would at least observe the equinoxes as well as the solstices.
Matthew
"Shall we their fond pageant see? Lord, what fools these mortals be!"-Puck

Todd> The equinoxes are kind of important once a decade.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

So how about Greg's second book title? Guess we'll probably appreciate the title more once we've read the first book.

But even more exciting is that we won't have to wait a whole year after the first book -- we'll actually have two books in the Rain of the Ghosts series before Star Wars: Rebels premieres.

Todd: Greg's mentioned in the past that the days surrounding the equinoxes are times of the year when female gargoyles are in heat (fall) and lay their eggs (spring), with the eggs hatching in the spring ten years later.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=7564

I think its a relative safe guess those are the northern hemisphere perspectives for fall and spring . . . I wouldn't think any gargoyles in the southern hemisphere would wind up in reverse cycles on opposite sides of the year, but I haven't found a question/response relating to that in the archives . . . yet. d:

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Do gargoyles even pay that much attention to the equinox? Maybe the general lengthening nights, since that means more time for them to be awake. Though they'd probably look upon the time-keeping and calendars as a human matter, same as naming.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

had, of course.
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

TEN
I hope all Gargs hat a nice Equinox ;D

Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

It's just after NINE in the morning here.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

8
Anthony Tini

Lucky number Seventh!
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
If you are on the wrong road, progress means.. walking back to the right road; ..the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man~~C.S. Lewis

6th!
Matthew
"Shall we their fond pageant see? Lord, what fools these mortals be!"-Puck

Fifth!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Why try? I know why.The feeling inside me says it's time I was gone..." - Rush

Fourth...
ESG

Third!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Second!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

FIRST!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!