Hi Shelby and welcome to the chat, unfortunately Greg doesn't visit fairly often as he is currently busy with other projects. Any questions you have can be submitted here: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/ask.php
Please keep in mind that there are certain rules about what questions can be submitted, and considering that both Tim and Cassie are 16 in Season 3 the question about sex isn't exactly appropriate.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________
posted @ Sat, Sep 7, 2019 3:34:49 am EDT from 64.85.228.21

In season 3, Tim and Cassie had been dating for two years. What was their relationship like? What kind of boyfriend was Tim? Have Tim and Cassie had sex with each other? Or are they still virgins?
Shelby - [shelbye312 at comcast dot net]
Shelby
posted @ Sat, Sep 7, 2019 1:50:27 am EDT from 73.148.124.2

I was going through my books and it turns out I have another copy of the Gargoyles TPB Clan Building Vol. 1. There's some water damage to the inside back cover, but the book is in overall good shape. Anyway, if anyone (within the continental United States) is interested, I'd be willing to send it to you. For free. I'll even pay the shipping cost. Just reach out to my email below. I can send you pictures of the book and what shape it's in. First come, first serve.
Richard Jackson - [rickymtj at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 6, 2019 2:41:43 pm EDT from 68.13.240.79

It's also important to note that Spidey rarely fights with his full strength, usually only tapping into that under extreme stress or anger.
Once upon a time (aka the 60's) Spider-Man was the fourth strongest Marvel hero, just behind Hulk, Thor and the Thing.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________
posted @ Thu, Sep 5, 2019 10:48:22 pm EDT from 64.85.228.21

MATTHEW B> Hey, friend. Welcome to the room! :D

1. Greg Weisman has revealed plans to follow Rory and Molly's continuing adventures in a spin-off tentatively tilted [i]Heroes of Ulster[i/] but we don't really know anything beyond that. IFAIK he hasn't revealed any specific plans for the Golem.

2. Don't know, sorry

3. Spidey is mad strong. Goliath is hella strong.

Hope that helps.
Algae
Imperfection is beautiful!
posted @ Thu, Sep 5, 2019 10:44:07 am EDT from 78.152.230.75

Karrin: <<Yes, it's because TVtropes has, as a whole, the critical reading ability of a concussed potato and a system where whoever feels the most angry about their favorite character having a narrative development they dislike gets to set the tone.>>

Thank you!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Sep 5, 2019 7:54:19 am EDT from 174.203.1.50

Hi folks. I had a few gargoyles and SSM questions and saw that you can often answer questions that Greg hasn't been able to get too yet, so here goes.

1- Do you know if there were any plans for the Golem and/or Cuchulainn to return, either in Gargoyles or in a spin off series?

2- How old was Felicia Hardy/Black Cat in season 1 of SSM?

3- Any idea of Spider-man's strength relative to the Gargoyles? It seems to me that what they do on screen makes Spidey pretty close in prowess to Goliath, but there is what looks like contradictory information. The Lizard is stronger than Spider-man but Jade from the Amazon Clan takes care of the Lizard with little effort in the radio play "Religious Studies." Then again, the mutates, Claw, Fang, and Talon seem to be roughly a physical match for the Gargoyles, but the similarly mutated Kraven is no match for Spidey. So, I dunno. Do you?
Thanks!
matthew baugh - [pthameru at hotmail dot com]
Matthew B
posted @ Thu, Sep 5, 2019 3:15:27 am EDT from 47.149.134.210

For reference I was not making the 'well they're not always painless so it's fine to not even try' argument.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________
posted @ Thu, Sep 5, 2019 2:21:06 am EDT from 64.85.228.21

Ok, hang on, sorry for the double post but I do feel the need to clarify.

One: "The man who passed the sentence should swing the sword" is about responsibility. It means that, if you are going to be in a position to decide who lives and dies, you have to be fully aware of what it means to end a human life. You cannot have any illusions about what you are doing. It very emphatically does not mean "If you think someone should die, go ahead and kill them." Brion had no legal authority to kill Delamb, and anger is not a sentence, and a courtyard is not a courtroom. And that brings us to the other half.

Two: Brion killed Delamb because he was angry and wanted him dead. It wasn't because he sat down and thought about it calmly and decided it was a risk he didn't want to take. He's certainly justified it to himself as being that, but the real reason is he's angry and impatient and has never accepted the idea that maybe, possibly, his first gut instinct ideas of what would help could be wrong. We've seen him listen to the others, yes, but he almost always listens to them on matters of how to do something - not whether or not his goals are bad ideas in themselves. And Brion is, not to put too fine a point on it, a prince and a celebrity. He has never really been in a situation where he's had to reconsider his snap judgements on what's heroic behavior, princely behavior - and to some extent his environment for years has been set up to tell him he's right, that he has every authority to do what he likes.

And if he'd killed Delamb and gone 'you know what, I still think I'm right, but I'll go to trial with Tara' or even 'I'm not going to fight you, but if you want me to go to trial you'll have to catch me first' then I'd be a lot more sympathetic. Delamb was a terrible person! I'm not sad he's dead. But Brion's reason for killing him, and everything after that - including seizing control in a coup, and dangling forgiveness over Tara's head in exchange for her loyalty - was wrong. Some of that is down to Zviad nudging him, some of it is down to the crowd going 'wow, that murder you did was great!' But at the end of the day, he made the choice himself. A king who thinks he has the full right to kill whoever he wants, exile whoever he wants, and considers himself infallible and entitled to any authority he wants, is a dictator. He isn't accepting the responsibility and burdens of leadership, he's grabbing at them as a way to escape the consequences of his choices.
KarrinBlue
posted @ Thu, Sep 5, 2019 2:06:40 am EDT from 103.2.150.145

>Matthew

"While I would say that DeLamb was defenseless at that moment it should be pointed out that he had already broken out of the cooled lava containment before and could do it again. Combine that with him being tough enough that nothing short of an inhibitor collar or someone with Superboy level strength could stop him."
...except that he was not broken out at that moment. The problem is that while we make allowances for self defense and killing someone in the heat of battle, we do not do the same for an enemy who is defeated. Even if they are saying stuff that makes us mad. Delamb was not making any motion to escape; he was immobilized.

"Plus DeLamb openly admitting that he wouldn't stop trying to kill his family would give Brion all the justification that he was too dangerous to keep alive."
No, it doesn't, because Brion - a seventeen year old with anger issues and absolutely no legal position in the judicial system - is not the person to make that call. Delamb can say whatever he wants - that should all be taken into account at an acrual trial with a real judge, like the one at the Hague that Tara actually went to. Brion has absolutely no right to declare himself judge jury and executioner, no matter how mad or justified he feels, and while I'd be sympathetic if he went 'yeah it had to be done but I'll take the consequences of doing it' he didn't. He went 'obviously I had every right to murder someone who was making me angry' and then used that to lead a coup against his own brother.


"Also, I wouldn't really call it executing a political enemy, more of a Ned Stark, "The man who passes sentence should swing the sword" kind of thing."
But Brion has no right to pass the sentence. Ned Stark is a grown man, long established as leader and judge of his people, experienced in hearing cases and making judgements. Brion is, again, a seventeen year old who has 0 legal authority in Markovia. And I never said that Delamb is a purely political enemy - obviously he's committed many crimes - but even so! There are some things you do not do to your prisoners, because how you treat peole when you have power over them determines whether you get to call yourself a good guy or not.

"Either way, there's a reason that TV Tropes lists Brion as "Unintentionally Sympathetic" for the act"
Yes, it's because TVtropes has, as a whole, the critical reading ability of a concussed potato and a system where whoever feels the most angry about their favorite character having a narrative development they dislike gets to set the tone. Look how many complex female characters get tagged as being bitches just for not being sunshine and rainbows 24/7. Look how every LGBT character gets divided into 'camp gay' or 'camp straight' depending on how well they fit into the lower common denominator ideas of what queer people are like. Look at the entire ambiguous disorder page, where characters who range from being even slightly readable as neuroatypical to being actively known-author-intentionally written as having a disability are lumped in under an outdated, absurdly offensive stereotype that mixes a 90s concept of autism with 60s schizophrenia, a conception of ADHD focused entirely on 'well anyways -SQUIRREL!' behavior, and a truly unrecognizable idea of OCD. So, no, I'm not accepting 'tvtropes said so!' as any kind of legitimate citation, unless we also want to accept 'the guy who gaslit an entire school and has been raping his sister is a victim too' or 'but what if the guy who wanted to send an 8 year old to spy on a mob boss and didn't even consider asking her was right all along' as having any critical merit.

And, again, while that's a factor for the larger DC Universe, it's still not the case here. Here, Arkham and Belle Reve are relatively secure aside from jailbreaks that nothing could prevent (Boom Tubes, active sabotage by the staff.) We can't take it for granted that Brion would know for sure Delamb would escape eventually because that is not the norm yet here.

Also there's a very good reason why Batman and superheroes in general don't kill or be more 'proactive' - because they're vigilantes. Even in the universes where they're officially working with the government, they still have no formal training and very little accountability for their actions. As for 'doing more than just thwarting schemes' - like what? Because stopping crimes is what they're for. If heroes start going after people for things they might do, start beating people up for things that they think they might be planning to do, then that's wrong! We need evidence, and proof, and that's the whole basis of having a criminal justice system as opposed to a 'that person looks suspicious' system. And, while I know none of us want to get into it right now, even cops, lately, have obviously been abusing the idea that they should be able to kill anyone they feel threatened by. And they're people whose faces we know, who took training that was supposed to teach them how to assess how threatening someone might be! Do you really want to see how that situation plays out with someone who had no standardized training and hides their face?

Yes I've seen the Jon Oliver segment. I saw it when it came out. It's why I said 'meant to be painless.' Going 'well they're not always painless so it's fine to not even try' is... hopefully not the argument you're making?
KarrinBlue
posted @ Wed, Sep 4, 2019 11:08:07 pm EDT from 103.2.150.145

Masterdramon> I will agree that "Overwhelmed" did stress the importance of closure and the need to move on. But one thing I've learned from watching Greg's shows is to look at the little details which hint at bigger things. Not to mention there is a difference between how the episode frames things and what the heroes in the episode are doing to frame things.
Weirdly enough, this whole thing reminded me of a Birds of Prey comic where it's revealed that Barbra was sending Huntress on covert therapy sessions disguised as missions. Huntress was disgusted by the deception and ended up quitting the team for a while. I bring this up because there's a certain murkiness when it comes to psychiatric consent to help. Whether it's justified to lie to someone even if it's to help someone, an issue that was a recurring theme this season.

Karrin> While I would say that DeLamb was defenseless at that moment it should be pointed out that he had already broken out of the cooled lava containment before and could do it again. Combine that with him being tough enough that nothing short of an inhibitor collar or someone with Superboy level strength could stop him. Plus DeLamb openly admitting that he wouldn't stop trying to kill his family would give Brion all the justification that he was too dangerous to keep alive. Also, I wouldn't really call it executing a political enemy, more of a Ned Stark, "The man who passes sentence should swing the sword" kind of thing. Either way, there's a reason that TV Tropes lists Brion as "Unintentionally Sympathetic" for the act.

I brought up Arkham and the Joker because he's often the focal point of discussion when it comes to lethal force in DC. The argument boils down to: We know the Joker will escape Arkham and most likely kill someone, once out he will most likely kill someone, his scheme kill most likely kill someone. So when do heroes like Batman start taking more proactive stances beyond just thwarting the scheme? The answers usually went as updating security at places like Arkham or Blackgate, start enacting the death penalty or possibly having to take a more police-like stance and consider the possibility or necessity of killing when the situation calls for it, like the heat of battle. Which I should clarify was NOT the case for Brion.

I bring this up because unlike Marvel, DC really doesn't treat this with much nuance. When it comes characters who aren't adverse to killing like Huntress, Wonder Woman or heck even Superman, that mindset is rarely portrayed as anything but a negative. And that loss of nuance creates a very black and white viewpoint.

On a more personal note, I'm enjoying these conversations, it's been awhile since I've played devil's advocate in a discussion. Also personally I'm not really fond of the death penalty though I do recognize that there are people out there who deserve it. Incidentally, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver covered the nature of executions like lethal injections, turns out they're not the quick, clean and painless method that they're usually depicted as.
You can find out more here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lTczPEG8iI
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________
posted @ Wed, Sep 4, 2019 5:19:48 pm EDT from 64.85.228.21

While you're free to take what you like from it, I don't honestly see how "Overwhelmed" could have been more obvious about it if it'd hung "Wally's Not Coming Back, Yo!" in big, neon letters.

Not from a mechanical sense, but from a thematic one. The entire thesis statement of that plotline - one clearly so important to the crew that they devoted the crucial A-plot of the season pre-finale to telling it - is that it's unhealthy and self-destructive to live in the past and wallow in what could have been, and that the way to properly honor a lost love is ultimately to accept that loss and move on.

There is no circumstance where they could subsequently reveal "psych, Wally's been in the future/another dimension/mystic limbo/the Speed Force all along!" and not completely undercut that message. And I'd honestly be pretty disappointed if they did.

"Overwhelmed" was a very important story to tell at this stage of Artemis' character arc. It is also not a story one would choose to tell if the endgame all along is the undoing of his sacrifice.

(And as for Greg answering questions about Wally's fate with "NO SPOILERS"...he's stated on many, many occasions that he avoids answering those questions as a blanket policy because if he answers for one character and not another, it becomes in effect a reveal by omission. See here, for example: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=1048)
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"My function is to observe." - Yuki Nagato
posted @ Wed, Sep 4, 2019 1:28:42 pm EDT from 76.173.134.25

I like the think Earth-16 Arkham is a tab more competent at keeping dangerous inmates secure than most of its counterparts throughout the multiverse.

Full-disclosure I'm personally Anti-Death Penalty, but I like to think any rational Pro-Death Penalty advocate would rather those kinda decisions NOT be made by an impulsive teenager just coming off an adrenaline high and under the influence of a mind-altering supervillain.

Anyone who feels justified executing his political enemies on the spur of the moment with his own bare hands is not the kinda person I'd want as my Head of State.
Algae
Imperfection is beautiful!
posted @ Wed, Sep 4, 2019 7:11:15 am EDT from 64.43.128.95

>Matthew
Yes, but the thing is, it wasn't that Artemis chose to have public pressure over private pressure - or rather that wasn't how the decision was made. Instead the choice was any pressure vs none, for as long as possible - 'I'll keep this secret until she decides to tell us on her own, or until it's not possible anymore.' In that case, it's not that they chose a big public reveal, it's that that was the last possible opportunity to say anything about it because Tara was holding a boulder above Gar's head. There was no way to deal with that in private - and without being able to predict the future, Artemis and the others wouldn't have had any way to know that this would all come out in the public eye - Slade might have chosen to have Tara blow her cover on a more secretive mission. We know, with the benefit of hindsight and seeing the full season, what happens: they wouldn't have had any clue when they were making these choices that push would come to shove on live TV.

Furthermore, while it would have been very easy to tell anyone what was going on with Tara, that still does nothing about the fact that Brion is absolutely godawful at biding his time or hiding anything, and would almost definitely have blown the whole thing apart, possibly made Tara run back to Slade, and in general force everyone's hands instead of letting Tara make her own choice about who to trust.

"But on the other hand, this is the DC universe where people like the Joker regularly break out of Arkham and will kill again and again."

Actually, that's something I've been wondering about myself. Sure, Arkham's revolving door is a comic staple - but is it so big a concern in Young Justice? Take the Joker - we actually haven't seen hide nor hair of him since season 1. For all we know he might not have had anything to do with Jason or Barbara (personally I think it's pretty likely he did, but we don't know.) Belle Reve is incredibly secure - it's only been breached by deliberate sabotage from the staff or, once, Boom Tubes, which sure aren't standard for villain jailbreak teams. So - yeah, I don't think we can go 'well he would've escaped anyways' because we don't know if that's the norm in this universe.

"Killing him might've been the most opportune moment, even if it wasn't the right place for it to happen."

Thing is, that's not how executions work. Executions happen after trial and sentence and in a way that is meant to be painless. Brion was not carrying out an execution sentence: he was murdering someone who posed no bodily threat to anyone present because he was angry and thought he knew best.

And yes, the heroes screwed up. A lot. Everything Jeff and Barbara said was completely right. And yes, of course Brion thinks he's bringing justice and needed action when other people are wasting time. The thing is, though, feeling betrayed by people in no way excuses murdering someone, or taking the role of judge, jury, and executioner upon yourself, or exiling your family members unless they fall in line behind you. And most of the horrible things done in history were done by people who think they were in the right. Nearly all of them in fact. So while I entirely understand why Brion did what he did, the fact of the matter is that his reasons for doing it were wrong, and he chose to double down on thinking he was right and extending that to make even more bad choices. I do think that at his core he means well - I just hope that in s4 he considers that his idea of what's best might be flat wrong before he goes so far that he ends up on the end of the same justice he gave Delamb.
KarrinBlue
posted @ Wed, Sep 4, 2019 5:32:14 am EDT from 103.2.150.145

Karrin> While I understand the need to let Tara have the time to come to her own decision I would argue that public pressure is far worse than private pressure. And as for the heroes failing Brion, well it's been pretty well established that next to Jeff he's the one who chaffed the most under the secrecy of the Anti-Light, especially in regards to his sister. It wouldn't have taken much effort keep him in the loop, but they didn't and his relationship with Tara was wrecked because of it.

As for the execution of Bedlam, that's a bit murkier. On the one hand it's rarely a good idea to join along with the mob when it comes to deciding life or death. But on the other hand, this is the DC universe where people like the Joker regularly break out of Arkham and will kill again and again. There wasn't anything to confirm or deny that he wasn't already awaiting execution when he was broken out. Killing him might've been the most opportune moment, even if it wasn't the right place for it to happen.
On the one hand, Baazovi was clearly "nudging" Brion's worst impulses, but on the other hand those darker elements were clearly present in Brion to begin with. On the one hand, Brion shouldn't have doubled down on thinking he didn't do any wrong, but on the other hand the heroes shouldn't have done the same either. Remember in "Another Freak" it's revealed Nightwing hacked Brion's phone (a serious violation of one's privacy) and not only dodged the issue but put the blame back on Brion. And that's not counting Batman and others doubling down at any criticism levied at the Anti-Light's secrecy.

Brion wasn't in the right, but from his point of view he didn't owe anything to his fellow heroes either. If they were willing to break the rules to fit their agenda, there's no reason he can't do the same as well.
In the end, I don't think it's for nothing that the Anti-Light dissolved their internal secrecy at the end of the season and the conspirators resigned from their positions of leadership. Chances are they'd like to avoid another case like they did in Markovia.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________
posted @ Wed, Sep 4, 2019 3:42:41 am EDT from 64.85.228.21

Brainiac> The Scarab isn't exactly known for mincing it's words and being very blunt especially when it comes to death and violence, using everything everything from "destroy" to "eviscerate." The wording used there was uncharacteristically ambiguous. And in "Overwhelmed" which was framed to make it look like the big good-bye for Wally still had that moment in the end where it was it was revealed that it was all faked. Combine that where he was the only one not shot during the Space Trek sequence in "Nightmare Monkeys" and Greg's constant "No Spoilers" in regards to Wally's fate. Well, he's kinda become Schrodinger's superhero in this regard.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________
posted @ Wed, Sep 4, 2019 3:03:53 am EDT from 64.85.228.21

BRAINY> Maybe Scarab just meant that Wally is standing really REALLY still?
Algae
Business as usual...
posted @ Tue, Sep 3, 2019 6:04:11 pm EDT from 86.45.213.181

NB> Yeah, I would have liked a scene with Violet clarifying her pronouns. As it is we're left to assume she did so off-screen and is still most comfortable with she/her (at least for now).

The only other option is to assume her lover, friends and teammates are all serial-misgendering jackasses and I'd rather not.
Algae
Business as usual...
posted @ Tue, Sep 3, 2019 5:54:17 pm EDT from 86.45.213.181

Perfect six, once again.

Matthew, how exactly could the scarab have made it less vague for you? Would doing the Dead Parrot sketch instead of simply saying "he will cease" have done it for you?

Also, to anyone looking for autographs of Gargoyles voice actors of a stellar travel bent...Nichelle Nichols and Brent Spiner are coming to the Cincy Expo from September 20th - 22nd. Nichelle specifically is here as part of her con circuit farewell tour. If anybody has something they want signed, drop me a line and we'll see if things can be worked out (they won't be cheap, I can tell you that). I'm looking to add Brent to my Rain CDs (I've already gotten Marina at CONvergence).
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Tue, Sep 3, 2019 11:17:29 am EDT from 165.225.38.206

>NB: sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? Either I'm way too tired to read properly or you went 'A conversation about Halo's pronouns because' . What is the conversation is about? Do you want to have a conversation? Or are you commenting on a conversation happening elsewhere?

>Matthew

[SPOILER] "
So we finally find out what the "Judas Contract" and by extension, the Light's endgame for this season was. Tara assassinating Garfield. Destroying the Outsider's leader and public face, destroying what goodwill the heroes have been building up throughout the season, a meta-human registration (shades of Marvel right there), branding the Justice League criminals and consolidating the new influx of meta-humans. [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] 2 things: for clarity's sake, can we not refer to this subplot as the Judas contract? That term isn't used in the show and if we're gonna talk about terra i'd like to be especially clear on when we mean which version or which arc in which medium. also: I actually disagree that this was the endgame planned for Tara. No one knew Gar was going to start the outsiders when Terra was rescued - even Gar didn't! More likely, Slade wanted Tara there as a backup - so that if he ever needed an immediate agent there, he'd have one. Contingencies, planning for th3 most likely outcomes, not being a clairvoyant. Heck, I'm still not sure Slade is telling the truth when he says he intentionally had Tara planted on the team - I think there's good odds he meant for her to give him intel on the Owls, then hastily improvised and lied to seem all-knowing afterwards. Remember, ebery member of the Light is a liar. Don't buy their own hype. [/SPOILER]


[SPOILER] ". In retrospect, Vandal working to ensure the Anti-Life Equation stayed out of the hands of Darkseid and the heroes toppling the Orphanage makes perfect sense now." [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] Well, it also made perfect sense before. Vandal screwed up majorly allowing Halo to be taken, UH said as much. The Light is in as much danger as anyone from a complete anti-life equation, and there's no way they win if they're all puppets. That's the whole reason the Light doesn't work to completely destroy the league: to clean up their partners once they become inconvenient. [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] "

Now this may just be me, but when Tara summoned that large rock to kill Garfield it looked more like she wanted to use it against Baron Bedlam, mostly because Deathstroke had been playing with emotions and using him as the root to all of her problems. I just feel that her desire to kill her uncle override her orders to kill Beast Boy. I know I'm most likely wrong, but that's just my opinion.
" [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] No, that's basically right. Deathstroke told her to kill beast boy because he was in the way of killing Bedlam. She wanted her uncle dead; Deathstroke was framing it like killing BB was a necessary step there. [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] The way I read Artemis keeping Tara's secret is, she wanted to give Tara as much time as possible to come on her own, while putting as little pressure on her to feel forced to choose as possible. Confronting her would corner her, and it would be less her choice - they wanted to avoid that. The downside is that Tara felt alone and her other friends felt betrayed - even though there was no way they could have known without ruining it. Credit to Brion, but if he'd been told it would have taken him all of 2 seconds to turn into a crusade against Slade and, again, pressuring Tara and taking her choice of who to trust away from her. [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] I think I disagree on framing tjis as 'the heroes failed Brion.' In the end he made his own choice. With everyone telling him not to do it, his sister - the person most hurt by Delamb - telling him not to, on tv, after months of having patience and listening to others explained, at a time when Delamb could have gone to trial and been executed properly, he chose to kill a defenseless man. And then he did not choose to go 'listen, I did what had to be done, I'll take the consequences of That's - he doubled down on thinking he couldn't be wrong, and then launched a coup against his own brother and leave 2/3 of his remaining family in exile. [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] OK WOW THERE that was a lot of typing, I'm gonna post now so I don't risk losing anything. [/SPOILER]
KarrinBlue
posted @ Tue, Sep 3, 2019 9:56:43 am EDT from 103.2.150.145

Hey! Just letting y'all know that a conversation about Halo's pronouns (or at least a reaction whenever she's mislabeled as a girl or the massively transphobic and dehumanizing "she-thing") because aside from the one scene with Artemis, her being nonbinary doesn't actually come up all that often and it doesn't really change how people refer to her (see all the time gendered words like girlfriend are used instead of more accurate terms like partner or datemate to describe her and she doesn't even react). It really makes her being nonbinary seem like an afterthought when it's never brought up or discussed in the show whenever someone misgenders her. Doesn't even have to be that deep of a discussion lmao just like

"hey m8 i aint a girl"
"oh okie m8 my bad, i got u fam"
NB
posted @ Tue, Sep 3, 2019 5:43:48 am EDT from 173.80.227.210

MATTHEW> [SPOILER] I too was a tad surprised Savage and Darkseid mended their fences so quickly. Makes me wonder if this really is the first time one has tried to pull a fast one on the other? [/SPOILER]
Algae
Imperfection is beautiful!
posted @ Mon, Sep 2, 2019 12:07:48 pm EDT from 51.37.48.172

And now comes the end, here are my thoughts on Young Justice Season 3 Episode 26 "Nevermore"

[SPOILER] You know a lot of people were predicting that Raven would show up just on this episode's title alone, if they ever do get around to that I imagine Greg will make some more references to Edgar Allen Poe.

You know, I don't think anyone really guessed that this season would unfold the way it did and I certainly didn't expect it to come full circle back to Markovia. It kinda reminds me of the climax of "Usual Suspects" where the team returns to Santa Prisca, the site of their first official mission.

So we finally find out what the "Judas Contract" and by extension, the Light's endgame for this season was. Tara assassinating Garfield. Destroying the Outsider's leader and public face, destroying what goodwill the heroes have been building up throughout the season, a meta-human registration (shades of Marvel right there), branding the Justice League criminals and consolidating the new influx of meta-humans. Those on the right side are taken into Infinity Inc. and those that aren't could easily be made tools of the Light. In retrospect, Vandal working to ensure the Anti-Life Equation stayed out of the hands of Darkseid and the heroes toppling the Orphanage makes perfect sense now. Use the heroes to steal away a valuable resource from Apokolips and then use them to supplant the heroes. Very "why do something yourself when you can get someone else to do it."

Now this may just be me, but when Tara summoned that large rock to kill Garfield it looked more like she wanted to use it against Baron Bedlam, mostly because Deathstroke had been playing with emotions and using him as the root to all of her problems. I just feel that her desire to kill her uncle override her orders to kill Beast Boy. I know I'm most likely wrong, but that's just my opinion.

Which brings us to the big reveal, that a select few of them knew that Tara was the mole. And I must say I like how Artemis handled it, by talking to her as one wounded soul to another. One who knew what it was like to be abused and shaped into a weapon and how important it was for them to make the choice on which side they fell on. Despite what Sportsmaster and Cheshire said, it was her own choice to stay with her new family, and despite what Deathstroke conditioned her for it was her choice to not to kill.

But therein lies the problem of "a select few." Did the heroes seriously not consider how Brion would react to finding out that Tara was the mole? And did they really need to confront her at that big moment of truth, especially considering that she responded so well just talking to her like any other person? Unfortunately they didn't consider it at that was ultimately the straw that broke the camel's back. As I said before, the secrets and lies found throughout the season would have consequences and Brion was the one who chaffed the most under the hero's compartmentalization. Why should it matter that he crossed a line and executed an enemy of the state? The heroes were more than willing to cross lines of their own towards each other and with a frightening frequency. And from his perspective he managed to do what the heroes couldn't or wouldn't, end a dangerous threat. Permanently. While the show frames this as a big betrayal on Brion's part the sad thing is that the heroes failed Brion.

Which brings us to the tragedy of the Markov siblings. A funny thing is that the three of them best embody that "stronger together" idiom where each of their strengths helped balance out the other's weaknesses. Gregor may be a calm and rational leader, but his constant use of "patience" without action (did we even see him attempt any regard to lifting the ban on meta-humans?), emphasis on public image over what's right and rather delayed reunion with his siblings (he sure took his time meeting his long-lost sister). He comes off as a leader with a tepid personality more interested in maintaining the status quo. Brion may be aggressive, hot-headed and quick to anger (I imagine he was reminded a lot over the fact that he missed his birthright by 16 minutes, which probably didn't help his attitude). He was still motivated by a strong sense of justice and a desire to fix the problems that lay present, say what you will about the execution but prisons and facilities don't have the best track record in DC. And Tara may be a killer, but she was still willing to come clean, apologize and face the consequences of her actions. Something neither brother did. It's such a shame that events led to the three of them falling apart.

I've been thinking a lot on chess this season and how it pertains to the heroes and villains. Indeed I plan on expanding on the chess metaphors in another post. But what I was thinking of is in chess you are often required to make sacrifices to get ahead of your opponent and we've seen it a lot here. From this episode we've seen that the Light was willing to sacrifice Tara, and the Bedlam Syndicate to end the Outsiders. To say nothing of even willing to sacrifice Lex's public image. And our heroes were willing to sacrifice their image, their relationships many had built with each other and the trust that they had with themselves. But they were ultimately willing to learn, to not fight fire with fire but with water. The enemy hides in the shadows? You bring in the light. Secrets and lies? Fight back with the truth. In danger of falling apart? Show that openness and equality that united them in the first place. They won this not by adapting the tactics of their enemies but by being the heroes the public believes they are.

Speaking of sacrifices, I was curious to see what the fallout would be between Vandal and Darkseid. I was surprised to see them come to an agreement, I imagine it was due to the fact that 1) Darkseid didn't know Vandal had plans for the rescued meta-humans. 2) Granny did overstep on her part. 3) Considering Halo's influence could be undone Darkseid might not think it was the true Anti-Life Equation he sought. Either way, both parties still recognize the need for the other, for now.

And for the hook for the next season, the Legion of Superheroes ring on that waitress. Well that sure brings up a lot of questions. Who was that? Well since the waitress was a blonde the first one that comes to mind is Saturn Girl. But why are they here? That's the big one. Since we all know time travel exists (Bart Allen and Abra Kadabra are proof of that) and that the future can be changed (as seen in "Bloodlines") that brings up some interesting thoughts. Are they here because they need the help of the present day Justice League? Did they not exist until Bart changed the future and now they're investigating the cause of it? Are we working towards a storyline similar "The Great Darkness Saga?" Or considering that the Legion is made up of many different heroes from all over the galaxy are we seeing the foundation of it being set up here in the future. Or did Wally get zapped into the far future like some are guessing? I once guessed that the time-skip for next season would be in the far future as a fake out before shifting back to the present day. The possibility of that happening just increased. Either way, can't wait for the next season.

Some final thoughts: Who was the fool that thought Guy Gardner should be the spokesperson for the Leaguers out in space? I found the perfect quote to sum up the conflict between the Markov brother, interestingly enough from the Art of War, "Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays." I'm glad that Conner and M'Gann were able to work through they're problems, here's hoping we get a wedding episode. And Zviad Baazovi is the Bad Samaritan he is in the comics, makes me wonder how many of Gregor and Brion's decisions were wholly their own and how many were "nudged" by his influence. Speaking of influence, I think Dr. Jace may still be under the influence of the Anti-Life Equation. And it looks like we're getting Lil' Lobo...or not. [/SPOILER]

And that covers my thoughts on this season, a week after the finale airs I won't be using spoilers in the discussion. Fair warning.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________
posted @ Mon, Sep 2, 2019 6:55:27 am EDT from 73.158.223.17

SECOND!
Algae
Imperfection is beautiful!
posted @ Mon, Sep 2, 2019 4:29:35 am EDT from 51.37.48.172

The FIRST of many weeks while we wait for the return of Young Justice.

Fortunately, we got ourselves another DuckTales marathon week!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Sep 2, 2019 12:49:40 am EDT from 73.250.150.250