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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending December 8, 2019

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BISHANSKY - I'm sorry to hear that.
Todd Jensen

And now for some sad news. Marina Sirtis, the voice of our beloved villain Demona, lost her husband, Michael Lamper, last night. Our thoughts as a fandom are with her in this difficult time.
Greg Bishansky

ALGAE - [I also love how Anansi goes to such convoluted lengths just so he doesn't have to go get his own dinner. It feels very in-character with what Anansi tales I've read, where his schemes have a tendency to backfire on him.]

That fits what I've read about Anansi as well. I read a story recently about how he persuaded the Creator God to bestow great wisdom upon him by performing various difficult tasks. He then stuffs the wisdom into a container and tries to take it home, but he's carrying it in front, so that it keeps on getting in the way. Then his little son suggests that Anansi carry the container on his back instead, where it wouldn't be as much of an impediment, and Anansi notes sheepishly that a small child proved wiser than the guy carrying the big supply of wisdom. Definitely matches how, in the Panther Queen story, he drives everyone out of the city and then realizes only afterwards, "Hey, wait a minute! I just sacked all my workers!"

Rewatched "Pendragon" on DVD today, but I'll wait until the room clears to give my thoughts on it.

Todd Jensen

Sad news, we not only lost Sesame Street performer Carroll Spinney today but also René Auberjonois too. For those who don't know he played Odo on Deep Space 9 (my personal favorite of the Star Trek franchise) and Dr. Desmond on Young Justice.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

"I liked the touch of Anansi working his magic by weaving it into his web - it gives the sense of the different styles of magic of the Third Race's members depending on their individual natures (Anansi being a spider, for example)."

That's really interesting, because I remember hearing that that's a common difference between our ideas of magic and African concepts. In the West, we have the concept of God speaking the world into existence, and so we see words as being a conduit for magical power. In Africa, their creation myths are more about building, so magic is associated with craftsmen.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

The whole Panther Queen sequence has got to be one of the beautiful in the entire series. It's no wonder Carl Johnson decided to feature the track for it on his website. I also love how Anansi goes to such convoluted lengths just so he doesn't have to go get his own dinner. It feels very in-character with what Anansi tales I've read, where his schemes have a tendency to backfire on him.

If there's one critique I could make of Mark of the Panther looking back, it's that Fara Maku seems to get off waaaay to easy given the severity of his actions. Tea's not wrong when she accuses Fara of basically ruining her life. Yet by the end of the ep, Fara not only gets everything he originally wanted but also even manages to weevil out of his debt to Anansi.

Algae
"Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Brings to mind when J. Michael Straczynski introduced the concept of the Spider Totem when he headed Spider-Man.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

TODD> <<And it's kind of amusing now for Elisa to call Anansi "Spider-man", in light of one of Greg Weisman's later projects.>>

I think Anansi would genuinely enjoy Peter Parker. They're both spider tricksters, after all.

Greg Bishansky

Watched "Mark of the Panther" on DVD today.

I've mentioned before the strong thread of "hunting" (largely applied to hunting gargoyles like animals) that I'e noticed running through the series this time around. It surfaces again in this episode (it had gone dormant after "The Price"), though this time, the gargoyles aren't the targets. Instead, we have: a) Anansi getting the werepanthers - first the Panther Queen, then Fara Maku - to hunt for him, and then Tea and the poachers hunting panthers together, Tea for revenge, the poachers for money.

(Tea's motives - revenge - come closest to the motives humans had for hunting gargoyles in the series. Apart from one or two remarks in "Upgrade", like Hyena's "I wonder if gargoyles taste like chicken", nobody seems interested in hunting gargoyles for food - I suspect that the bulk of the anti-gargoyle humans see them as far too unnatural for the dinner table. The poachers' motives - monetary gain - might be echoed in Xanatos's attempts to capture the gargoyles, though he sees them as more valuable alive than a source for body parts - aside from that piece of Hudson's stone skin in "The Price", perhaps, and that's stretching it a bit.) Also, Fara Maku describes himself as "hunting" to find Anansi.

Elisa tells the gargoyles that the poachers are after the panthers' skin, teeth, and claws. Then, at the start of the story of the Panther Queen that follows almost immediately, Diane Maza, describing the Panther Queen, focuses on her fur (close enough to skin), teeth, and claws - though here depicting them as attributes of her beauty and majesty. (And when Anansi turns the Panther Queen into a human, the story stresses her loss of those same fur, teeth, and claws.)

I liked the touch of Anansi working his magic by weaving it into his web - it gives the sense of the different styles of magic of the Third Race's members depending on their individual natures (Anansi being a spider, for example).

Also in the tale of the Panther Queen, Anansi boasts that creatures like himself cannot die - and we'll learn later that he did survive his defeat at the end, and showed up on Avalon for the Gathering.

Goliath explaining to Diane Maza, when they're stuck in the pit, that he can't fly, just glide, echoes his original explanation to Elisa back on the skyscraper ledge in Part Three of "Awakening". Like mother, like daughter.

Diane at the end tells Anansi "Your gifts come with a price, trickster" - the same words match other tricksters in "Gargoyles", like Puck.

And it's kind of amusing now for Elisa to call Anansi "Spider-man", in light of one of Greg Weisman's later projects.

Todd Jensen

TODD> I've read similar theories, tho with a more class-conscious bent. Thor being the vastly more popular god of the common folk while Odin was the patron of the warrior aristocracy.

Interestingly the Romans also equated Mercury with the Celtic Lugh(Cu Chulainn's dad). It might be because Odin and Lugh don't have obvious specialized niches like Love, Thunder or the Sun. So they got lumped in with Hermes/Mercury who's already something of a Jack of All Trades among the Olympians.

Algae
"Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Hi Mr. Weisman. I have a question for you:

I don't know if you are aware, but in the "Early Warning" episode of Whelmed: The Young Justice Files the host quoted you on something you told him in conversation. This is something that used to happen now and then, but lately it happens in almost every episode: "Greg texted me this", "Brandon emailed me that", "Greg/Brandon told me whatever", etc.

So, looking at your 2-year backlog of 2000 questions, I'm wondering: why are you giving BTS information to this one person while the rest of your fanbase has to submit questions and wait months (at least) or YEARS (worst case and more likely scenario) for an answer???? It must be really cool to be so intimate and chummy with one's idol, and I bet the host feels super important and validated, but this is some double standard bullshit!

Are you aware of this? And if you are, how can you be okay with it? Don't you think this is unfair? You have thousands of fans who support your work whichever way they can, but 99.9% of them have never even met you in person, let alone exchanged emails or text messages with you.

If I make an entire podcast dedicated to kissing your asses, will I earn the same privileges? Will I be able to ask all my questions without a waiting queue? Will I get to hang out with you, have lunch together or exchange personal contacts?

(Originally I posted this on AskGreg, but then I decided I shouldn't have to wait 2 years for an answer, for all the reasons above.)

Jordan

Yeah it's funny how things change across cultures like the Greeks with the Egyptians. And then things can change even with proper equivalents, like when the Romans appropriated Greek folklore. Consider how Ares was the god of offensive warfare and casual slaughter associated with war. But Mars of Roman myth was the god of tactical warfare and the "peace through conquest" ideology of Rome.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

Sorry for the double post, but"

Algae's post about Odin being linked to Mercury prompted an additional thought - the Romans identified Odin with Mercury (a subordinate god) and Thor with Jupiter (the head god) - which would have made things extra complicated given that, traditionally in the Norse myths, Odin was the one in charge. (Though I've seen some speculations by experts on Norse mythology that Thor might have been the real "chief god" among the Aesir and that Odin's holding that title was a later invention - largely due to his being the god of poetry and inspiration, and the poets were the ones setting things down, and they'd be biased.)

Todd Jensen

Rewatched "Walkabout" on DVD today.

The Matrix strikes me as one of the most convincing depictions I've ever seen of an artificial intelligence threatening the world. Too often those gets portrayed as if it's a regular human tyrant in a robot or computer's body, motivated by conventional power-hunger. Here, Matrix's actions stem from his having a more alien outlook - he's merely trying to create order and doesn't comprehend that what he's doing is jeopardizing all life on Earth. (As the Shaman points out, the Matrix is more misguided than malevolent, and the correct way to stop him is to point out the error of his actions.)

I remembered this from past viewings, but it still amuses me: Bronx growling at a kangaroo at the beginning. (What *does* he have against kangaroos? As far as I can tell, they've never done any harm to gargoyles.) This time, I also spotted a koala up in a tree, which I hadn't seen before.

I was amused by Elisa's description of Dingo as "not one of the good guys" - another way of phrasing that would be "one of the bad guys" - though we don't know if that name had crystalized yet for that spin-off when they were working on this episode.

Elisa rides Bronx down one of the Matrix's formations - that's two episodes in a row where someone rides Bronx as if he was a horse (Rory did the same in "The Hound of Ulster").

Goliath at one point says, "Aye, for now." I think this is the first time he said "Aye" - normally, he leaves such Scottish-sounding words to Hudson. I liked hearing him use it - a little reminder of his roots.

During the confrontation with the Matrix, Goliath at one point encloses it in a dome very much in appearance like the ones Matrix was producing in the regular world.

He also conjures up a medieval-style shield with a sun-design on it - a surprising emblem for a gargoyle to bear.

Todd Jensen

Algae> And let's not forget syncretism like Hermanubis.

I dearly look forward to the day we can see those two have a mutual shudder over that on Avalon.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

NORSE: This is Odin, the Allfather who presides over the Halls of the Honoured Dead and blesses our bards and warriors with holy madness!

ROMANS: Oh, you mean Mercury!

NORSE: ...Wut?

Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Algae> Especially the ones who get deified, since we humans do love having our cliques.

"No, that's not Zeus, it's Jupiter!"

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

As a race of shapeshifting immortals, one imagines most of the Third Race have collected multiple alter egos over the centuries.
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

GXB> And yeah it's not super hard to square away what we see in the ep with actual Irish Mythology if you squint a little i.e. Banshee being another from of the Morrigan, the original 'hound' Cu took his moniker from being a Garg Beast ect.

Even Crom, Morrigan and Banshee being the same entity isn't that much of a stretch given they all have associations with death. "New Jobs for Old Gods" as Sir Terry would say.

Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

It [i]is[/]} a good ep.
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to hand wave that Crom Cruach and Banshee are NOT one and the same... Banshee could have taken the form in battle for a psychological edge. Similar to Macbeth wearing the Hunter's mask.

But I adore the episode.

Greg Bishansky

TODD> Logical, especially since the Scottish Baobhan sith serves much the same role as the Irish Banshee.

As a native Gael myself I'm not especially bothered by the villainous take on the Banshee. Gargoyles is at heart a superhero show without the tights and the ep needs an antagonist.

If I have any critique of The Hound of Ulster, it's the somewhat awkward mix and match approach it takes to Irish Mythology. It doesn't come across so much as taking artistic liberties as just not having much of handle on the source material to begin with.

But such are the perils of a hectic production schedule and living in the pre-wikipedia age.

Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Young Justice> Season 1 was alright. I liked Season 2 well enough. Season 3 lost me. I got about half way through the season and had no desire to continue. Not a bad show, just not my thing.
Matt

I rather liked "Young Justice" - though it didn't grab me as much as "Gargoyles" did. I think that was thanks to my growing up reading a lot about old myths and legends, medieval history, etc. but wasn't interested in super-heroes - I was aware of them as a boy in the way you're aware of the big names in pop culture entertainment, even if you don't read or watch it, but they weren't as much my kind of thing. So "Gargoyles" matched my genre tastes better than "Young Justice" did.

I watched "The Hound of Ulster" on DVD today. Those viewers who're familiar with Irish myth and legend have often brought up this episode's liberties with the source material; the one that stands out to me at present is the depiction of the Banshee as malevolent, a common portrayal. In the original Irish legends, banshees were death-omens who mourned in advance the passing of people in the families they were linked to; modern-day takes on them (not just "Gargoyles") treat them more as causing the deaths and misfortune, rather than merely heralding them. (I recently had a story idea about a banshee lamenting this depiction of her kind, protesting "No, no, no - we keen because we know someone in our family is going to die; they don't die because we keen." I have a vision now - though I obviously won't include it in the story if I get to write it; I haven't figured out anything past the premise - of this banshee watching "The Hound of Ulster" and commenting glumly "You'd think that a series which combats the negative stereotypes about gargoyles would do the same thing for us".)

Bronx gets a big role in this episode, of course, which hints that gargoyle beasts are the origin of the black dog legends of the British Isles. (Thank goodness they didn't call Bronx a "barguest" as they originally planned to; the barguest comes from northern England rather than from Ireland.) This strikes me as appropriate; while some tales portray black dogs as monstrous and hostile (they served as the inspiration for "The Hound of the Baskervilles" - which gets a nod in this episode through Elisa's mention of Sherlock Holmes), there are others that depict them as protectors, which suits gargoyle beasts well. (I've found one example in my copy of "An Encyclopedia of Fairies" by Katharine Briggs, an invaluable guide to such mythical beings - with entries also on Oberon, Titania, Puck, the Banshee, and others, even entries on iron and bells - which reports a story by a "Mr. Wharton" about a friend who had to go on an errand after dark, to find himself accompanied by a strange black dog both coming and going. Years later, two criminals in prison confessed that they'd planned to ambush and murder that man that night, but saw the dog with him, and thought it seemed too formidable to take on, so they left him alone. Mr. Wharton concluded his tale with "Now that is what I call a useful ghostly apparition". Based on what we know of the history of gargoyle beasts, alas, the man's protector is unlikely to have been one.)

I still enjoy seeing Rory and Bronx's rapport; despite Rory's initial alarm at beholding "the Hound of Ulster", they soon become friends.

I spotted this time a few marks inside Cuchulain's tomb that looked like Ogham, only vertical, and some very "Celtic"-looking spirals.

Goliath recognizes the sidhe upon meeting the Banshee; this was probably knowledge from before the Wyvern Massacre, rather than gained by reading through the libraries in New York afterwards, since Scotland and Ireland were closely linked in early medieval times. (Indeed, "Scots" was originally a nickname for the Irish, and a lot of the Scots were descended from Irish settlers who flocked over in the 6th century under a Prince Fergus - the Stone of Destiny story in "Clan-Building" incorporated that.)

The "KeepBingingGargoyles" page recently depicted a few versions of a fanart picture featuring Elisa on a date with Goliath - Goliath wearing a tuxedo and looking out of place in it. (I really think he ought to stick to the "regular" look, just as he did for their Halloween date back in "Eye of the Beholder" - it suits him far better.)

Todd Jensen

KIVA> "Hey Todd and Greg B! Good to see a few very familiar faces! And even though I don't know if they'll be here to read this, more big hugs and hellos to Gorebash, Greg Weisman, Arno, Kyth, Siryn, CrzyD, Pogo, Aimee, Kanthara, Hudson.... I should really know better than to start listing all of you because there's so many of you! Anyway, aloha to all of you!!"

Sorry for the late reply... man, it's been a while! I'm also still in touch with Gorebash, Greg W, Kyth, Siryn, CrzyD, and Kanthara... not sure if you were still around at the time, but Kanthara got to draw #5 of the SLG "Gargoyles" comic that Greg wrote a decade back as well as the "Bad Guys" spin-off.

Greg Bishansky

Algae> Cue the Spitfire Fan from the last Radio Play.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

JURGAN> That's fair. Tho comments from Greg and Brandon seem to suggest Season 4 will zero back in on the Season 1 cast (sans Wally obviously).
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

After season 1, I just started to look at the show as a cool anthology series with a few strong core characters. (That's pretty much what JLU was to a point incidentally.) And that put me in a much better mind set for enjoying the series I think. Though the HUGE cast was one issue I had with the second half of Outsiders. The first half had a really strong focus on a core set of new heroes, but in the second half it felt like I was watching a new cast every week.

YJ literally has my favourite version of Nightwing EVER, and I loved the way his arc continued in Outsiders.

Alex (Aldrius)

I just couldn't really get into Young Justice. I watched all of the first two seasons waiting for it to spark for me and it never did. That's not to say it was bad; I found it mostly enjoyable. And there were some parts I loved, like Tim Curry's riff on Alex Jones. That was so timely that I was surprised when I found out he was a pre-existing character, though I assumed they reworked him for the show. But it never grabbed me by the shoulders and insisted I keep watching the way Gargoyles and Spec Spidey did. I'm not really sure why, but the best I can figure is that the focus was split between too many characters, so I couldn't really get invested in them. Gargoyles was also an ensemble cast, but YJ didn't have a Goliath/Frank Furillo lead to anchor the show. Anyway, I'm glad other people are into it, but I don't have any real motivation to keep watching.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

I too quite enjoyed Young Justice: Outsiders and am intrigued to see where season 4 goes.
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Watched Outsiders on DC Universe as well, and it was definitely one of the biggest highlights of my media consumption for the year.

While I could quibble about a few issues, in general I thought the season was tremendously strong; a daring, character-driven exploration of a genuinely dazzling cross-section of DC's robust history, which both built upon and expanded the already strong foundations of the first two seasons.

As a lifelong DC fan, YJ remains my overall favorite iteration of that particular universe of characters, concepts, and settings, and I cannot wait to see how Greg, Brandon, and co. further explore them in Season 4 (and hopefully beyond).

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"I'm still Lily, and that's who I'm always going to be!" - Lily Hoshikawa

Todd Jensen> There are 15 copies between the library systems here (though some are still in processing and not available to check out yet). One of the smaller systems only has three of those and ALL are checked out with an additional hold currently in place.

Amusingly, among the other library systems I can see through SearchOhio, there's also a copy in Stark County. Heh (and yes, there are four copies in Wayne County as well, but they're not on SearchOhio).

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

BISHANSKY - I hadn't thought about what happened to the castle garrison (whom we indeed don't see after Part One), but that seems likely. (We don't see any human corpses in the sacked castle, but apart from Standards and Practices, I think they'd want and need to keep the focus on the slaughtered gargoyles.)

I'd learned a couple of days ago that the local library has the DVD of "Young Justice: Outsiders" on order, and will probably check it out once it arrives. (Though after I've finished my 25th anniversary rewatch of "Gargoyles".)

Todd Jensen

Loved Outsiders, thought it was great! Can't wait for season four.
Greg Bishansky

I followed it during it's release and gave my thoughts on each episode as they came out. Heck, that show was pretty much the entire reason I got a DC Universe account (I really wanted to show my support financially besides just vocally).

As for what I thought of the season, to sum up: I wish that they didn't have to use the character models and color palettes from New 52 animated movies but that's a minor inconvenience. Acting was really on point (special shout out Zehra Fazal and her versatility). And when Greg's allowed to cut loose and go dark he can REALLY do that. But I'm glad that it wasn't just dark for it's own sake.

I don't think anyone predicted how this season was going to go (myself included) and I can't wait for season 4.

Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

On that note, which of you guys got a chance to catch Young Justice: Outsiders, and what did you think of it?
Alex (Aldrius)

Tangent, but just wanted to post that I received my blu-ray of Young Justice: Outsiders today. Though I did watch the show on DCUniverse, it'll be nice to watch it on the television instead of a laptop screen (with DCUniverse not supporting Chromecast to date, I can't throw the show up on the tv like I can with Netflix or Disney+).

Like the season two blu-ray release, this one came with bonus features! There's the "Bringing Back Young Justice with Whitney Moore" (which I'm sure was also on DCUniverse), and five other Behind-the-Scenes featurettes which I've yet to peruse. No commentaries according to the cover however.

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Greg > Seems pretty likely. Those that survived the battle anyway.

Todd > I think I already commented on grief a bit, but the way the show addresses death is pretty sophisticated. Tony Shaloub IS great and so is Tony Jay, and the animation is pretty amazing overall. The stuff with the Pack is a bit goofy, but I suppose there really isn't much of a conflict without them.

Alex (Aldrius)

So here's a thought, I don't think that this has ever been brought up before... there have been times when I wondered why it was Tom and Mary that escorted Princess Katharine, the Magus, and the eggs to Edinburgh... I mean, I know Katharine named Tom the Guardian, but why did Katharine bring these two refugees into her circle? Where were any of Wyvern's soldiers for that journey? We saw some of the soldiers in chains when the Vikings were marching off their prisoners, but we never saw any of them among the prisoners in Part Two.

So, does anyone else think it's safe to say that Wyvern's soldiers were probably all put to the sword? The vikings could probably sell the refugees into slavery, and they were planning to ransom off Katharine and the Magus.

If anything, this also illustrates how much the Captain despised everyone there except for the gargoyles.

Greg Bishansky

"Though actually, according to Greg Weisman, Renard's a Calvinist."

Yeah, I'd forgotten that response. I was thinking of speculation from an old fan essay, but obviously Greg W trumps that. Regardless, the point is Renard was a non-Jew exploiting Jewish culture for personal gain.

Actually, though I have issue with Calvinism (despite being a lifelong Presbyterian), his being a Calvinist is kind of fitting. It reminds me of the movie Hardcore (which I can recommend, with the warning that it's pretty explicit). George C. Scott plays a member of the Dutch Reform Church (highly influenced by Calvin) who discovers his daughter has become a porn star. He sets up his own fake porn company to have an excuse to search for her, assuming she's been kidnapped. He ultimately discovers she chose to join the industry, but even though he disapproves of her choices he still loves her. It's obviously a metaphor for God the Father loving His children despite their awful mistakes, but it also tracks neatly with Renard's relationship with his own daughter. After all, he thinks of Xanatos as having seduced Fox and taken her from him, not accepting that she made her own choice, and he's willing to forgive all her mistakes and welcome her back with open arms if she ever asks.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

I bet Demona has an Elisa doll at her townhouse that she sticks pins into.
Greg Bishansky

At this point, I think it would take a long while for Demona to be ready to receive Great Love #3 - she'd almost certainly see herself as through with love after the way Thailog broke up with her. (With the real insult being whom he broke up with her for.)
Todd Jensen

TODD> "BISHANSKY - After "The Reckoning", I think we can safely assume that Demona will stay celibate for a long time."

Depends on when Great Loves #3 and #4 show up... the latter most likely in 2198.

Greg Bishansky

JURGAN - Oh, and I spotted your tweet at #KeepBingingGargoyles. Thanks for it. (Though actually, according to Greg Weisman, Renard's a Calvinist.)
Todd Jensen

Welcome back, Kiva.

BISHANSKY - After "The Reckoning", I think we can safely assume that Demona will stay celibate for a long time.

Rewatched "Grief" on DVD today. I don't have as much to say about it as I did about "M.I.A.", unfortunately.

Angela thinks that the Sphinx looks like "the world's largest gargoyle". I suspect it's another surfacing of what was clearly one of the major inspirations of the Avalon World Tour - using "gargoyle analogues" (or what look like "gargoyle analogues" but aren't, such as the totem poles in "Heritage"); I doubt that the Sphinx was linked to gargoyles in the Gargoyles Universe - it's certainly too large to have been a gargoyle permanently turned to stone. The way Jackal was using it when planning to "clear the globe" suggests that there might be more to the Sphinx in the Gargoyles Universe than a mere ancient sculpture, though. (I recall a story by H. P. Lovecraft set in Egypt - and using Houdini as its protagonist; I am not making this up - which used the premise that the Sphinx didn't always have a human head, but that one of the Pharaohs had it remodelled to shield his people from its original visage.)

I sometimes wonder how much of a surprise it was for the first-time viewers, to see the Emir (mentioned by Xanatos and Owen in "The Edge" and "Double Jeopardy") become an on-stage character. (I still remember Greg Weisman, at the 2001 Gathering, praising Tony Shalhoub's performance.)

Speaking of voice actors, this time I noticed how Keith David did the aged-up version of Goliath; he successfully made it sound much older than his usual delivery. Another great moment for the "Gargoyles" voice cast.

Todd Jensen

Just had a nice exchange on Twitter. In a discussion of Jewish culture being appropriated, someone mentioned he hated how the Golem of Prague is always portrayed as a villain. Naturally, I told him about a certain TV show that’s currently streaming and got several likes and responses. #KeepBingingGargoyles
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Well hello there S8! It's been forever and a Hunters Moon since I've been here, but with Disney Plus coming out and streaming the entire series, well, it's no surprise the nostalgia hit hard. The show is still as amazing as ever and it's always cool to see some of you still posting!

Hey Todd and Greg B! Good to see a few very familiar faces! And even though I don't know if they'll be here to read this, more big hugs and hellos to Gorebash, Greg Weisman, Arno, Kyth, Siryn, CrzyD, Pogo, Aimee, Kanthara, Hudson.... I should really know better than to start listing all of you because there's so many of you! Anyway, aloha to all of you!!

It's actually really, really neat seeing people talking about the show again on twitter and seeing how many people say how much they remember loving the show as a kid. And it's great seeing people remember what an inspiration the show was, with characters like Elisa being such a powerful example for women of color, and the stories introducing people to Shakespeare, and exploring other cultures (or even their own heritage). It will always be a show that means a lot to me and watching it again has brought back some really great memories. :)

Kiva

GXB> *Eyebrow waggle*
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Oops, looks like I forgot this date.

January 2nd. The Captain has a change of heart and rescues Goliath. The Captain's spirit ascends. Hakon is trapped alone in the caverns below Wyvern. The quartet of travelers return to Avalon so that they may attempt to find Manhattan again. ("Shadows of the Past") Meanwhile in Paris, Demona encounters Thailog. They quickly form an alliance. ("Sanctuary")

Still my favorite euphemism. Greg was a little more graphic about it at the Blue Mug at CONvergence 2014: "Demona was celibate with Thailog for about five seconds."

Greg Bishansky

I actually think the only consistent thing when it comes to the gargoyles and their design is the basic humanoid body with wings, everything else is subject to change. Actually I kinda like that the gargoyles of the world are designed to reflect their culture of birth, out of universe anyway. In universe it's stated that the gargoyles are sort of the progenitors of human iconography and myths like the more serpentine gargoyles for the feathered serpents found around Central America.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

Dam looking at what Greg said about Magic the gathering I feel really bad about him and how woke culture got to him.

We know for a fact that he tries to be inclusive and a lgbt ally... but he has to pay the bills and he could't make them an offical couple due to the fact this was against his employer wishes.

It pains me to see so many people going after him and calling him a bad writter.

anonymous

It's a cool choice, and I don't mind the designs in of themselves, I just find it's a bit too much and doesn't fit the internal consistency of the world. Like if Una just had a unicorn horn (gargoyles have horns), and maybe a few feathers here and there, rather than having a horse head. Subtle, suggestive, rather than them just looking like chimera. Maybe Leo has big blond mutton chops that suggest a lion, rather than having a lion's head. That kind of thing.

It's not a deal breaker for me, it's just a quibble.

Alex (Aldrius)

The decision to base the London Clan off of creatures in heraldry both real and fictional to be an interesting one. Besides a lion, unicorn, griffin, hippogriff, boar and stag there's plenty of strange creatures that would make for interesting designs.

My personal choices would be the Alphyn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphyn
The Lampago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lampago
And the Reremouse (aka Bat): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_(heraldry)

Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

Thanks Greg! I'm sure at some point I knew all that. Though you actually left out what your referencing with "they quickly form an alliance." (though I can guess well enough). I guess it is all rather straightforward really.

M.I.A. is an alright episode. The design of the English gargoyles have always struck me as probably a little too distinct from the others -- they don't even look like the same species, whereas Guatemalan, Scottish and Japanese gargoyles all look pretty much the same. I like the creativity, though, and they are good designs. Though I'm not sure what happened with Griff's design, though.

Gargoyles sometimes struggled with getting authentic sounding accents, but these are all pretty good. Gregg Berger, who does an awesome performance, especially in the scene at the end where he releases Angela, Elisa & Bronx, has an accent that's all over the place, but he never lets it get in the way of his performance, which is the mistake a lot of actors make. A good performance can make up for a spotty accent.

I remembered really not liking this one before I rewatched it and I don't love a lot of the aesthetics, but it's a really solid story, the mystery is fun, I think the London clan is probably the most fully realized of the international gargoyle clans. Each character has a really distinct personality and I love their little shop of curiosities. I just wish the visual designs on the London Clan had been done a LITTLE differently. Probably just tone down the heraldic elements to a degree, and maybe incorporate those into what they were wearing or something instead of Una literally having a unicorn head.

Always love the Phoenix Gate storylines. For a long time I felt like the only real way to do a time travel storyline was the Gargoyles way. Though I think now there are limitations. But putting limits on your time travel, and not making the story about the actual traveling through time are things gargoyles does very well. Since everything that had happened, always happened, you never have to worry about "we need to avoid messing with the time stream!!" which is always a sloppy plot point in most time travel stories.

Alex (Aldrius)

I rewatched "M.I.A." today.

I remember being enthusiastic about this one, the first time I saw it, because of the London setting (I spent much of my boyhood in England and have fond memories of my time there) and the "historical time travel" element, taking Goliath to the Battle of Britain. (I also spotted various familiar London landmarks - the Tower of London, the Houses of Parliament, and Tower Bridge all show up in the background.) I didn't realize until later the deeper significance of this episode - we discover that there's another gargoyle clan out there, that the gargoyles aren't confined to just the surviving members of the Wyvern clan. It's a further sign of hope for the species.

(I spotted a scene from "Awakening Part Two" in the "Previously On...." section where, when the gargoyles hear that they're the last of their kind, Lexington closes his eyes and bows his head in silent grief. It makes a great contrast with the revelation here, even if Lex won't learn about it for a few more episodes.)

I still can't help wondering who raised that memorial to Goliath and Griff. Leo and Una's remarks suggest some involvement. Certainly, given that living gargoyles would have sounded like just a story to nearly all the Londoners at the time, it must have seemed like raising a monument after World War I to the Angels of Mons. (Though we know that at least one of the humans in the war had learned that the gargoyles were real, and fighting the Germans alongside the RAF. Which reminds me - I hadn't heard of Douglas Bader, the man in my previous sentence, until after I first saw this episode - I learned about him in this very comment room when someone brought up that he was a real historical figure. Since then, I've learned a bit more about him, and even saw some mentions of him in a "behind-the-scenes" piece after a few episodes of "Foyle's War" on PBS.)

I took a close look at the contents of Leo and Una's shop - African masks, a scimitar, herbs hanging from the ceiling, lots of books (we know that at least one was a genuine spell book), a crystal ball, a very creepy goat-like mask in the cellar where they were holding Goliath's friends prisoner (it looked like those depictions of Satan with a horned beast's head presiding over witches' gatherings); I even spotted what looked like an old phonograph, though I'm not certain that that's what it was.

Greg Bishansky has often protested here a tendency among some "Gargoyles" fans to look upon gargoyles as if they were "humans with wings". It struck me here that Leo and Una were almost trying to be "humans with wings" (without realizing it) in their attempts to sit out the troubles around them and focus on running their shop - and it definitely didn't work out well for them. Fortunately, they recognize it by the end.

(They've certainly shown some strong English traits - for example, having tea - I particularly liked the touch where they're apologizing to Goliath for no sugar because of wartime rationing - and, of course, running a shop. Gives new meaning to the famous description of England as "a nation of shopkeepers" - popularly attributed to Napoleon, though there's some doubt on whether he actually said it, and Adam Smith came up with the term first anyway.)

Griff, when introducing himself, says "They call me Griff" - from the way he said it, I wonder whether the London clan hadn't fully settled into having names in 1940.

I wonder whether the racist hooligans in the present-day part of the story would be likely to join the Quarrymen, if it ever started a London branch. (If we ever get any British Quarrymen, it'd be kind of fun - if a bit obscure - for one to be named Openshaw. Sherlock Holmes joke - "The Five Orange Pips", to be precise.)

Incidentally, when we see the human Londoners standing behind the gargoyles at the very end, this time around, I realized that they were the same people we'd seen staring at the gargoyles in shock near the beginning, when Leo and Una come out to confront Goliath. From the way they were gathered behind Leo, Una, and Griff at the end, they must have gathered that they didn't need to be frightened of the gargoyles after all, which makes a lovely additional touch to the ending.

Todd Jensen

I imagine that Demona loved Thailog's proposal for the company that she would end up naming Nightstone Unlimited. She was allied with Xanatos prior mostly because she needed his assets and resources. But, as Thailog said, by all estimates her wealth combined with Thailog's and Macbeth's would put them on equal footing with Xanatos... and best of all, she'd be in control (with Thailog). No more quid pro quos with Xanatos (and she had burned that bridge anyway). And, as seen in "Hunter's Moon", she was right.

Plus, I imagine twisting a knife in Macbeth gave her a perverse sense of satisfaction.

As for the timeline of events:

January 1st. King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. ("Avalon" Part Three) Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force. ("Shadows of the Past")

January 9th. Dominique Destine has an "accidental" encounter with Lennox Macbeth. [257]

January 21st. Elisa Maza and the gargoyles arrive in Paris during the day. Elisa starts to call her parents, but when she spots Macbeth and Demona together, she follows them to Macbeth's Chateau. Then she follows Demona to Notre Dame Cathedral, where she loses her trail. After sundown, she rejoins the gargoyles and fills them in. Goliath attempts to confront Demona at the Cathedral and is surprised to find her allied (and apparently in love) with Thailog. Angela overhears their confrontation and realizes that Demona is her biological mother. Goliath and his friends depart. Demona informs Thailog that she has successfully set up their new international corporation: Nightstone Unlimited, owned and operated by Dominique Destine and "Alexander" Thailog. ("Sanctuary") [263]

January 22nd. "Dominique Destine" marries "Lennox Macbeth". But as the sun sets, Macbeth learns the truth when Dominique transforms back into Demona. She quickly renders him unconscious. But when Thailog arrives, he secretly helps Macbeth escape. His plan is for Macbeth and Demona to kill each other so that he will inherit both their fortunes. Elisa Maza intervenes by temporarily "killing" both of them. Demona flees with Thailog, but Macbeth and the gargoyles declare a truce. Later, Elisa and the gargoyles take the skiff back to Avalon. ("Sanctuary") [264]

By the way... "they quickly form an alliance" is my favorite euphemism ever.

Greg Bishansky

Oh, definitely. I’ve also always liked the symmetry of Xanatos starting with $20,000 and Thailog starting with $20,000,000. Also Thailog chooses the first name “Alexander,” which is also what Xanatos’s actual son is named.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

I think in the heat of battle, she was more concerned with Macbeth. I'm not sure hate is something you can really quantify -- I'm sure whoever Demona is actively hating in a given moment is the person she's hated the most in her whole millennium-long life. Though obviously, as the mirror shows, if given the opportunity, killing Elisa is probably the one thing Demona wants more than anything, at least at that point in the show.

I always kinda wondered about how Demona and Macbeth's arrival in Paris worked. And how Thailog and Demona met and came to their planned conclusion. There's a lot that happened in the background here, and I don't mind really, it all adds up, it's just interesting. Because I can't imagine Demona is that dedicated to stealing Macbeth's money and that's what's motivating her here. So either she was doing it for Thailog's sake, or she was doing it to screw over Macbeth, or both.

Aldrius

GXB> It suddenly occurs to me you could easily draw a line from Thailog's "daddy issues" back to David's attempts to show up his own father in Vows. Granted, David never takes it anywhere near as far as Thailog but there is still that sentiment of sticking it to the Old Man.
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

It’s funny you quote that comment, because I remember seeing it as well, but I didn’t see who wrote it. I’d assumed it was one of yours. You have a similar writing style.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

YouTube comments are usually terrible, ergo this is the greatest comment ever posted to YouTube. A terrific analysis of Thailog:

"I thought Thailog was a pretty interesting villain. His main goal wasn't just "to get rich," but to prove his superiority to his three 'fathers.' The reason he was so obsessed with wealth, wasn't simply due to generic moustache-twirling greed, but because he wanted to surpass Xanatos in monetary power (in the same vein as how he tried to surpass Sevarius by creating the clone clan in 'The Reckoning,' and how he tried to best Goliath by hooking up with his former mate Demona...and then creating an implied sex slave by cloning the G man's two major love interests...nasty stuff!).

"The dude is pretty much a walking Oedepus Complex, thanks mostly to the mistreatment he received from his 'fathers' (Xanatos and Sevarius pretty much treated him like shit from day one, and Goliath dismissed him as "an abomination" upon seeing him for the first time...true he regretted it almost immediately afterwards, but like nearly every other villain on the show, Thailog isn't one to forgive or forget). So yeah, Thailog is plenty of things, but never dull."

Greg Bishansky

GXB> Might also be a rare instance of Demona favoring pragmatism over personal grudges. As the only one able to slay her permanently, Macbeth is by far a bigger threat than Elisa.
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Yes, I think that Demona would have had good reason not to mention her "wipe out humanity" schemes to Thailog. He'd definitely want to thwart them, since if all the humans are gone, his fortune will be worthless.
Todd Jensen

TODD: "Thailog states that Demona keeps nothing from him; he was clearly right about that, since she'd shared the conditions of her link to Macbeth with him, thereby unwittingly allowing him to come up with his plan to dispose of them both."

She shared all that with him, probably also underestimating him... like Goliath did. But I asked Greg if Thailog was aware of her Hunter's Moon scheme and while he didn't provide a solid answer, it was a lean towards no. By the time they returned to NYC, she probably had an idea that he was more invested in Nightstone than she was... for her, it's a tool in her arsenal; for him, he wants to rival and exceed Xanatos.

"When Elisa's making a little chart about the characters and their interactions with each other, she writes Macbeth's name as "MacBeth". Not quite as bad as the infamous "Servarius" error in "The Cage", but still...."

I find that more forgivable, I can buy Elisa making that error when making notes... whereas I am sure Sevarius knows how to spell his own name and would likely have made them fix it. But there probably wasn't time to call for the animators to do that re-take.

"Demona shows just how intent she is on that same fight, by the way (and this is something that hadn't occurred to me before) - Elisa's standing in the room with them, calling out to them, and Demona continues to fight Macbeth without even noting Elisa's presence - until just before Elisa shoots her. (Demona *does* turn towards Elisa at that moment and point her gun in her direction - but Elisa takes her down before Demona can do anything more.) Apparently even her hatred towards Elisa pales beside her feud with Macbeth (which, of course, has lasted several centuries longer)."

I don't think it was that. Demona despises Elisa far more than she hates Macbeth... but I can buy that Demona is capable of pulling herself together for the benefit of the plan. Now, had that situation gone longer or had Elisa made any other moves, I can also buy Demona throwing it all to the wind. And like you pointed out, she does turn her gun on Elisa.

Keep in mind, Demona despises Elisa even more than she hates the Hunters. She's that fucked up.

"And I still get a kick out of Thailog calling Demona "night angel" - his variant on it illustrates his difference with Goliath, a far more flippant tone in contrast with Goliath's more dignified speech patterns."

I never caught that... and I love it.

Greg Bishansky

@ Matthew

I kinda hated using the term b-tier villain because it sounds like I'm saying he's a bad character or something, but I couldn't think of a better term. It's more that the episode's whole momentum is built around him (because there's just not much else going on) and his goals are kind of nebulous, and in this instance he's just not that threatening. There's no real dramatic tension that Angela is actually in danger.

@Todd & Jurgan

It's not the logistics of it so much or that it doesn't make sense or anything. I'm not speaking of the decision in terms of the diagesis; it's more that it just takes away the agency on Goliath's part, and it's also a very sudden decision. It also just takes away a lot of the dramatic tension of "when will they get home" when they were given the option to go home and chose not to take it because of fate.

----------------------------------------------

Sanctuary is a pretty good episode. Paris is obviously a very cool setting for an episode of gargoyles, and I like a lot of the imagery. Demona and Macbeth's return is welcome. Seeing Thailog's new design and what he's capable of as a bad guy is neat. The pacing and the tension are great, and I like that the heroes have to rescue Demona and Macbeth. Demona and Thailog's relationship is also super twisted and I love it. It's pretty clear Demona sees Thailog as an amoral Goliath that doesn't judge her make her feel bad for what she's done. Which is a nice tie in to what was the last big moment she really had. "The access code is Alone".

The performances are great as always. I can't believe how good John Rhys Davies is in the part of Macbeth. He just makes this character sound so grounded and real, when he could have sounded absurd or silly.

I have a few issues with the episode, though. I'm not the world's biggest Thailog fan and I think ultimately both Demona and Macbeth wind up kind of coming across as chumps here in a way I don't really like. The animation is a bit wonky, and Dominique's accent is really distracting and just makes her seem transparently insincere. But these are pretty minor elements of what is overall a very solid story.

I have such complicated, mixed feelings about how Angela and Demona's relationship is handled. I think it's a super rare thing for literally any story to handle. That a mother can be imperfect, that a mother can be selfish. So it's really a trailblazer in that respect, because it's something even much more adult oriented content is afraid to handle.

I think perhaps because Demona's a recurring character, everything that happens to them kind of winds up feeling a bit... odd? Is that unfair to say? I have other thoughts on Angela's character in general, but I'm having trouble articulating them without them just sounding unfair or overly critical.

Aldrius

I didn't have any problems with Goliath's realization that there was a purpose behind the World Tour and accepting it - certainly, it had already been spelled out by Tom's warning as well as the consequences of the adventures they'd already had.

Seeing that moment reminds me of an old 80's cartoon based on the Dungeons and Dragons game - Michael Reaves was one of the writers for it, by the way, and wrote some of its best episodes - in which a group of modern Earth kids was transported into a weird fantasy world and was constantly trying to get home. There were repeated hints delivered (mostly by their mentor-figure) that they were supposed to be there to do something important, and almost every one of their failed attempts to return to their own world involved putting some bad situation to right, but they never seemed to catch on, continued to see "getting home" as their primary goal, which felt like a flaw in the series. I was glad to see that Goliath and Co. did catch on.

Rewatched "Sanctuary" on DVD today.

I wonder how many watching that episode now (whether on DVD or Disney +) find the Notre Dame scenes a bit - well, different - after the fire earlier this year.

I might have mentioned it before, but that gargoyle silhouette against the moon in the newspaper photograph looked rather like the Bat-Signal. (Probably unintentional, given their attempts to avoid being perceived as a "Batman: TAS' imitation.)

Thailog states that Demona keeps nothing from him; he was clearly right about that, since she'd shared the conditions of her link to Macbeth with him, thereby unwittingly allowing him to come up with his plan to dispose of them both.

When Elisa's making a little chart about the characters and their interactions with each other, she writes Macbeth's name as "MacBeth". Not quite as bad as the infamous "Servarius" error in "The Cage", but still....

I find myself mentally shuddering during Demona and Macbeth's fight in the library, when they're demolishing the bookshelves filled with books while firing at each other.

Demona shows just how intent she is on that same fight, by the way (and this is something that hadn't occurred to me before) - Elisa's standing in the room with them, calling out to them, and Demona continues to fight Macbeth without even noting Elisa's presence - until just before Elisa shoots her. (Demona *does* turn towards Elisa at that moment and point her gun in her direction - but Elisa takes her down before Demona can do anything more.) Apparently even her hatred towards Elisa pales beside her feud with Macbeth (which, of course, has lasted several centuries longer).

And I still get a kick out of Thailog calling Demona "night angel" - his variant on it illustrates his difference with Goliath, a far more flippant tone in contrast with Goliath's more dignified speech patterns.

Todd Jensen

To respond to Aldrius' comment about Sevarius being a B-tier villain, if feel that it's important that a proper rogue's gallery should have a whole spectrum of different kinds of characters that can challenge the protagonist(s) in different ways.
Sevarius isn't a physical threat to our heroes the way Thailog, Xanatos or Demona is that doesn't mean he isn't dangerous. One thing that's been consistent about him besides his genius is his amoral attitude that causes him to ruin other people's lives in the name of science or because he wants to. We saw hints of this in "Metamorphosis" and then to an even more extreme degree in "Bad Guys" where his victims included children.

Speaking of which, in the comic we learn that he acquired Gargoyle DNA from Angela and was planning on using it on Robin. God only knows what would've happened then.

Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

I've been reading a lot about anti-Jewish violence by Christians lately, and in rewatching Golem I was surprised to see it portrayed so frankly. As a kid, I'm sure I just saw it as a riot or an invading army or something like that, but now I realize it's clearly a pogrom.

I do like that discussion from Greg about WWII. It was always sort of an "elephant in the room" question that was probably too heavy for the show to address head-on (they did go after the Nazis by name in M.I.A., but there was no mention of genocide). But when I stop to think about it, it seems obvious that the Nazi war machine was simply too big for a golem to stop. Powerful as it is, a few anti-tank rounds would likely turn it to dust. But there are any number of ways it could have helped the resistance. It could sabotage supply lines, help smuggle Jews out of the country, etc. It would be a good story, at least as fanfiction if not within the show itself.

From a character perspective, I think Renard's turn to and from the dark side was a bit too heavy-handed. It works overall, as I can believe his fear of death would lead him to take drastic measures. But having him literally say "it's not my fault" is a pretty blatant call-back to Outfoxed, and I would have liked a little more subtlety. It also ties in with both The Price and The Gathering- the former talks about focusing on what you leave behind rather than extending your life, while the latter shows Renard what the next generation of his family will be.

And Aldrius, the fate thing never really bothered me. But I would have liked to see them explicitly released from their quest in The Gathering, maybe via the skiff sinking the same way Arthur's did. Greg suggested once that they realized their quest was not over but decided to abandon it once they got to New York, but that seems really irresponsible. After all, if Goliath had taken Renard up on his offer, just imagine how Grief or Walkabout would have ended.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

And I guess that makes me eleven then.
Matthew
Insert Inspirational Quote Here:________

Hi Mr. Weisman. I have a question for you:

I don't know if you are aware, but in the "Early Warning" episode of Whelmed: The Young Justice Files the host quoted you on something you told him in conversation. This is something that used to happen now and then, but lately it happens in almost every episode: "Greg texted me this", "Brandon emailed me that", "Greg/Brandon told me whatever", etc.

So, looking at your 2-year backlog of 2000 questions, I'm wondering: why are you giving BTS information to this one person while the rest of your fanbase has to submit questions and wait months (at least) or YEARS (worst case and more likely scenario) for an answer???? It must be really cool to be so intimate and chummy with one's idol, and I bet the host feels super important and validated, but this is some double standard bullshit!

Are you aware of this? And if you are, how can you be okay with it? Don't you think this is unfair? You have thousands of fans who support your work whichever way they can, but 99.9% of them have never even met you in person, let alone exchanged emails or text messages with you.

If I make an entire podcast dedicated to kissing your asses, will I earn the same privileges? Will I be able to ask all my questions without a waiting queue? Will I get to hang out with you, have lunch together or exchange personal contacts?

(Originally I posted this on AskGreg, but then I decided I shouldn't have to wait 2 years for an answer, for all the reasons above.)

Jordan

<double-checks> And I'm tenth. Looks like the Disney+ presence has enhanced the post rate back to getting the count done in one day!

Jurgan> Concerning last week; ursine combat is not in my contract. Oh wait, wrong Brainiac...but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't bother.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Monsters is mostly a pretty underwhelming episode. I had to re-watch it just to remind myself what happened in it exactly. Sevarius, as entertaining as he is and as much as I love Tim Curry is kind of a B-tier bad guy. The biggest revelation is probably Angela finding out that Goliath is her father, but nothing comes of it in this story. I don't really feel like that, at this point, the relationship between Angela and Goliath is really going anywhere in general. And I would have liked to have maybe seen some more momentum in the story in that respect by this point in the show.

Golem is much stronger, if only because Halcyon Renard is in it, and I think that his relationship with Goliath is always really well done, plus Culp is amazing. It feels like a real friendship and the characters have great chemistry. The moral dilemna is also really satisfying and feels very real. Halcyon's plight is understandable, he's very sympathetic and this creates a strong core for the episode.

My only real problem is the ending where Renard offers to send them home, and Goliath is just like "nah, we'll let fate decide when we're allowed to go home." The whole conceit of Goliath not wanting to be brought home because of fate has never really felt right to me. Especially when I think there're lots of other better reasons for him to want to stay on his journey. (Looking for other gargoyle clans, though they haven't run into a real one by this point). I think there were other forces that could have been used to push him along rather than just him trusting in fate too.

Aldrius

Greg does seem to indicate that may have been the case in the below post:

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=460

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"I'm still Lily, and that's who I'm always going to be!" - Lily Hoshikawa

TODD> I mean, there's really no way to be sure what was going on with the Golem during WW2. Maybe its guardian at the time did try to waken it but was prevented by external forces?
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

(7th)Lucky seventh!!!!!!!
Vinnie - [thomaspeano at yahoo dot com]
Deplorable and loving it!

Sixth.

Watched "Golem" on DVD yesterday; I decided to wait until the room cleared before giving my thoughts on it.

I don't have much in the way of new observations, I'm afraid. One detail that stood out to me was a tribute to the late Robert Culp's voice actor skills - look at the way he does Renard's voice when he was in the Golem's body. It sounds more vigorous than Renard's regular voice does, but still recognizable as Renard.

I began wondering this time around about Rabbi Loew's instructions to his descendant in a dream - to the best of my knowledge, the only case in the series where such an event took place. Presumably the phenomenon was strictly connected with the Golem. (I do recall the occasional question over why the Rabbi didn't provide similar instructions when Prague was occupied by Germany during World War II, where what was going on then was far more serious than anything that Brod could do.)

Followed up by the line "Now we find out if dreams come true" - another little "Disney joke"?

The Golem does strike me as (like the Loch Ness Monster) a natural candidate to show up in "Gargoyles" at some point, given its parallel to the gargoyles - a formidable protector-figure with links to myth and legend. The obvious difference is that the gargoyles are flesh-and-blood beings, while the Golem is a magically animated clay statue.

(I remember seeing a children's picture book retelling of the Golem story some years ago. In it, the Golem had much more awareness than the one in "Gargoyles"; after Rabbi Loew brings him to life, he walks about gazing up at the sky in wonder, and at the end, when the Rabbi is about to make him dormant, the Golem begs the Rabbi not to do it, pleading that he wants to continue to be conscious and look at the beauty of the natural world around him. I'll have to see if the local library has a copy, and reread it if it does.)

One small pleasant touch: Janus petting Bronx's head. All the more impressive, given that he's just met the gargoyle beast minutes before.

Todd Jensen

Fifth!
Matt

Fourth!
Algae
“Of course, we all wear costumes." ~Double Trouble

Third!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

2nd
VickyUK - [vickysunseeker at aol dot com]

First!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]