Rachel writes...

I know you're not on top of the products and sales, but how come Gargoyles season 2 vol 1 is out of stock everywhere while vol 2 and season 1 are readily available? Same with the Clan-Building comics, even if I want to buy a used version, it says it costs $1000 on amazon. So is there ever going to be a re-release of the products with its resurgence on Disney+?

Emily writes...

Hello again Mr. Weisman, I Just Got and read the first 6 issues of the 'Gargoyles' Comics, and here's 1 of the Curious Questions I do have related to them, though it's More like a 3 in 1 question if you don't mind

Between "Invitation Only" and "Bash" Why Does Xanatos Invite Margot Yale and her Husband to his castle? Since He surely does know that She's the Assistant District Attorney and the Adviser to the gargoyle taskforce and is Clearly Against the Gargoyles, doesn't he think it would be too risky because of the Rumors circulating that he's "harboring" the gargoyles? And Does Margot only accept the invitation to Find Proof of the rumors?

I don't know if it's just me, but she certainly seems like the kind of dirty D.A who'd take advantage of her position by any means to get what she wants

Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Catching up on my reviews/feedback to the comics... random thoughts as usual, and not very thorough.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the Trade Paperback, since I'm unemployed and low on money. Maybe someday. But I intend to continue buying the individual issues. I sincerely hope that the comic continues long after #12! And I really hope #8 comes around soon.

I forgot to mention, I like that #7 visually confirms that Delilah turns to stone like an ordinary gargoyle.

Issues #3-5:
I read these a while ago, and watched the Radio Play online before reading #5. Lots of new revelations about the Illuminati in this set. Overall, I didn't find the Illuminati stuff in the series as interesting as this. They really are sinister and scary. Whatever they're doing, it won't be in the clan's best interest.

Art
The different art styles in the three issues makes it strange to read them in sequence. Being the critic that I am, I notice many flaws, but I don't think that the art in #3 and #4 these issues was bad overall. I'm just not as good at describing the parts I like.
David Hedgecock's art isn't as good in this issue as in the latest issues drawn by him, which I already mentioned in my reactions to #7. It appears he was still getting used to all the various characters. Some good character asides are worked into the frames -- like Margot's obnoxious expression as she walks out of the meeting, and Brooklyn facing Malibu while Al talks to Shari. I don't understand the frame in which Talon is covered in warts, though. That wasn't in Metamorphosis, though it could have happened off-screen. I prefer Dustin Evans' shading style to Will Terell, but Morgan, Matt, and Thailog are colored oddly. I dislike the lines stabbing out of the gargoyles' eyes when they glow. As I've already said, Hedgecock's art looks best in #7, and with Robby Bevard's colors.
I quite like Nir Paniry's art on the Mutates, I think they looked very good. I also generally like his art for gargoyles' faces, I think he does good facial expressions in general (except the first page which looks more cartoony). I think he does a great job on Hudson. Talon's face when he says "I'm not leaving Maggie!" is especially well done, and very expressive. But the lines on Angela's face look like eyebrows. And I don't like seeing the gargoyles with such huge muscles. The split frame of Goliath's and Thailog's faces looks good. I also like the effect of the frame with just Goliath, Elisa, Morgan, and Delilah standing alone, as if the party is not all around them. It conveys the emotion of the situation (for Elisa and Goliath, at least) more effectively than words or faces could. I also enjoy the frame where Broadway and Lexington go after the food.
Karine Charlebois' art is amazing, it looks just like the animated show! The art in #5 is excellent, both the lines and the colors. Morgan still does look paler and Malibu's hair greener than I remember, but otherwise this issue is spot on the models in most frames. Brentwood is even drawn with the extra spikes he has on his shoulders. I am also pleased that the blood was drawn (not avoided) but also was not gratuitous or excessive -- especially considering that Thailog was not trying to kill anyone.
My main problem with these three issues is the inconsistency with the Mutates and the Clones, who are off-model in various ways in #3 and #4. In #3 the Mutates have tails. In both #3 and #4 the Clones have white teeth and red mouths, and Thailog and Brentwood look black instead of blue and purple. (Actually, I was kind of hoping at first that the Clones' mouths and teeth had simply changed to the normal color over time, as I find their black teeth and green tongues rather nasty.)
The inconsistency with Broadway's costume was less avoidable, though dramatic. Angela's footwear also seems to change from #4 to #5, but that is hardly noticable. Maybe they changed clothes?
In any case, such things also happened in the animated series, they were just harder to notice in moving images. They'll probably be rarer once every issue is by the same art team (you are going to pick a permanent color artist eventually, right? Please make it Robby Bevard!)

#3
Ugh, Margot. She's just so hateable. I don't really know why, some other antagonists are more of a threat.

I think Hacker is lying to everyone he talks to here. The Illuminati manipulates and uses its lower members. Probably Hacker isn't totally in the loop either. They can't want to kill all gargoyles, because they already know where the Manhattan clan sleep. I think I know what they're up to with the Quarrymen, Taskforce, and Xanatos, but would guessing in print be an idea?

The conversation between Lex and Fox is funny, though less than last time. But I notice he takes her word for it.

I really like how Goliath and Elisa's relationship is handled. Too many fantasy stories have inter-species romances in which the characters don't act at all sensibly. They just jump into it as though cross-species mating is normal and they expect healthy children and total social acceptance. But Elisa has a realistic reaction. She may be a gargoyle-lover, but she isn't crazy. Goliath's behavior surprises me more, that he has no doubts at all. Is it because falling in love after losing the first mate is so rare that he doesn't question it? Because his life is already so different from how he grew up, that he just goes with it?

LIMITED is right.

And Demona takes the crystal. Nice to see that, to know what happened to it.

#4
Hudson! I like Hudson, he's one of my favorite characters.
If people didn't want to believe real bad that gargoyles are just animals, if the idea of sentient gargs wasn't so impossible for a person, I doubt they'd fall for the "I'm wearing a mask" trik. No way a garg's face looks like a rubber mask.

"Excuse me? Cyborg." Somehow this line is very funny to me. But how does his costume just happen to be identical to the one in Future Tense? Did Puck see the costume in a prophecy? It can't be a coincidence. Of course it is only a costume, but from an in-the-universe point of view, the perfectly identical appearance is pretty creepy.

Go Claw! He has some guts in him.

Roebling is hilarious. Clearly he is wasted. And Delilah is so naive! Who would ever say such things in public, to total strangers... wow. English she has learned, but not basic social niceties.

I wonder why Alex is growing so fast. Is it his magic training? And I can't fail to notice that this Ambassador Chung has a son named Terry... he's pretty young yet, though.

I was very worried about Maggie when I read this. Now having #7 I'm not worried anymore of course.
Clearly Derek has a lot of feeling for her.

I love the way Owen handles Thailog. He knows that if his head is blown off, he will be dead like any mortal. But he's deadpan calm as always.
And that line about endlessly repairing the castle had me laughing so hard!

#5
The bloody cover of #5 with the Disney logo on it is ironic/amusing/strange. I'm sure most people don't expect that from a Disney comic! But I was sure you weren't ready to kill Goliath yet, so I didn't worry.

I already watched the Radio Play but of course it is much better with visuals. Because I watched the Radio Play, I get to hear Brentwood's hilarious lines in my head. I gasped along with the audience at the end.

There are Mary and Finella. It has to be them. And using their old clothes as costumes.

Morgan sure takes that news very well. That's kind of him.

I was very surprised that Duval is only #2, and I'm eager to learn who #1 is. We will find out eventually, right?

I laughed so hard at the Super-Garg pose! Brooklyn looks hilarious there.

Never expected Angela to start dropping profanity.

The way the clan treat the clones is kind of sad. I understand that for the Manhattan clan, the clones are unsettling and perhaps frightening, and it is difficult to think of them as being their own separate selves, partly because until now they have mostly seemed fairly passive, serving Thailog or going to the Labyrinth because they were told to. Yet I can also see that the Manhattan clan are being very inconsiderate and dismissive, and I imagine it makes the clones feel pretty bad.

I wonder about what led them to choose the Labyrinth over Thailog. Angela phrases it in terms of good and evil, but I have the feeling the clones did not reject Thailog for that reason. They aren't really old enough to have a good grasp of "good" and "evil" yet, though of course that isn't to say they can't or won't learn about such things in time. I think it was more a matter of freedom and slavery to them, than a concrete conviction that Thailog has done immoral things. Probably also it was a matter of their personal liking for the Mutates, and for each other, versus Thailog. Whereas Brentwood likes Thailog as a person more than he likes the Mutates or his siblings, but I don't get the feeling that he has a clear sense that Thailog has been "evil," either. I could be wrong, but it seems they are too young to expect that of them yet. Nevertheless, Delilah knows when she herself has been wronged, whether or not she phrases it that way. I was certainly surprised by her and Breentwood's choices here.

The scene with Jeffery Robbins is very nice. But does Hudson really smell like concrete? The stuff is made of limestone I think. And how does Robbins know that gargoyles are strictly nocturnal? Seems like the Quarrymen are telling people about stone sleep...
But I'm glad to see Robbins and Dr. Sato become friends to the gargoyles here, even knowing what they are. It even looks like Brendan was the one who got the doctor.

Quincy and Xanatos interacting is amusing. Xanatos making wisecracks at the #2... he's rather full of himself. But amusing.

In the end Elisa and Goliath kiss. And he says something very wise about free will. Brooklyn becomes funny. And Sevarius gets in a rather grotesque line.

Todd Jensen writes...

You've mentioned that many of the Goliath Chronicles stories were based on stories that you'd planned to do for Season Three, but which the new production team drastically altered (so that "Runaways" was based on Brooklyn's Timedancer story, and "Ransom" on the multiple tricksters and Alex story). Was "Genesis Undone" (the story about Thailog and the Clones dying) similarly based on the Double Date story that we got to see at last in #3 - #5? Both involved Thailog, the Clones, and Sevarius - and both had Sevarius obtaining the DNA of Goliath's clan for his experiments.

Todd Jensen writes...

In issue #3 of the "Gargoyles" comic book series, we first saw Illuminati members greeting each other with the words "Thirty-six." "Thirty-two." This got a lot of attention from the readers, of course, and led to many speculations over what the significance of those two numbers were. Then, in #5, we learned their significance: they were the ranks of the Illuminati members in question.

Have you ever regretted revealing the answer to that new mystery of the Gargoyles Universe so quickly, just two issues later? Or do you feel happy about the pacing with which you resolved that issue?

Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...

Clarifications on Elisa and relationships...

When I talked about Elisa flirting with Jason, that was acknowledging her actions in Hunter's Moon more than the comic but those actions impact what we see in Issue 3, where you are correct that they have stayed friends despite what transpired in Hunter's Moon though that's not in the comic. I should have been clearer about that.

And I never said Elisa flirted with Morgan, just the fact that she went on the date with him so quickly instead of taking a step back to focus first before doing anything after the speech with Goliath at the castle. Her actions just seem jumpy and rushed.

You'll probably still disagree with me and that's OK. I just want to make sure that you read me correctly.

Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...

Hi Greg,

Originally I promised I wasn't going to review 3 - 5 until I saw them as a group, and go figure when I finished this was RIGHT when the queue closed. So here it is, though with added time of reflection.

REVIEW OF GARGOYLES ISSUES 3 - 5
by Shannon Muir

As I've stated previously, I didn't want to comment on the comics until I could see the whole story in one piece, which to me feels like I'm reading a half hour episode adapted to three comics with one comic per act. I'm largely going to talk about the story as I think it unfair to review three different artists artwork indepth in one piece. However, broadly speaking I liked issue #5 the best artwise and issue #4 the least (mainly because I couldn't follow the fight scenes in that style which in turn impacted my ability to follow story, though the style itself was interesting).

Now, here's a breakdown of each story arc and my observations --

THE ILLUMINATI: It's nice to finally get a sense of the Illuminati structure as more than just this nebulous organization represented by just a couple people in the show. Castaway, Bluestone, Xanatos, and Thailog all at lowest run almost implies some sort of "race to the top". Both Quincy and Shari I find extremely interesting, and Thailog being a member was a turn I didn't expect. Also that Shari's symbol isn't the ring like all the men wear. (What jewelry does Thailog have I wonder, though I know you can't/won't answer). There's enough here I'm interested in what is going on in their infrastructure. Thailog's goals are, however, at this point a little bit predictable. What is more of interest is the consequences of the pursuit of said goals with Sevarius.

ELISA AND GOLIATH: I have to be honest, this was the arc that I liked the least. To me, the question of Elisa's family plans opened on the castle rampart is a "tentpole" question that should launch a much larger arc and not be thrown away in the equivalent of a half-hour episode. The fact Elisa flirted with Jason, and did take Morgan on the date, cannot be erased in one night no matter how life-threatening. Couples have conflicts but they also need to work through them, and issues of this magnitude take time. I hear rumors later issues will continue with this theme, but even what I've seen here seems just too fast. I know comics by nature need to be time compressed to some extent, but still.

I for one hope that though Elisa's re-recognized her feelings for Goliath in the heat of a pressure moment, the struggles don't end here. Those are some powerful words Elisa told Goliath back at the castle in Issue 3 about the life she wanted, and I truly feel some more examination of this is required instead of a simple daytime soap opera-esque "we'll find a way to work it out" and let it rest until it resolves itself. It has always been one of GARGOYLES' hallmarks to deal with tough issues head on and give them the treatment they deserve - whether it is single epsiodes with undertones of social issues like DEADLY FORCE or LIGHTHOUSE or the complicated psychcological examination of Demona and Macbeth of CITY OF STONE. That, to me, is what makes GARGOYLES... well, GARGOYLES.

As is, it feels like this was "rushed through" to take Elisa and Goliath to some sort of "next level" in their relationship in order to move along other plot elements. I strongly hope this isn't the case.

BROOKLYN, BROADWAY AND ANGELA: Poor Brooklyn just feels alientated by everyone. This was done in plausible contexts that made sense. I know what it is ultimately to lead to (in the most general of senses, as we've been told before), but the question is how long will things go until we get there? I hope they don't drag out but go at a natural pace. As to Broadway and Angela, I think they are handled very subtly in the background, their relationship is reconfirmed as a contrast longside Brooklyn's alienation.

LEXINGTON: Not too much to say here as Lexington is Lexington. However, what is key is his confrontation with his clone, it reveals a lot about his character as he confronts his "dark side" when the clone chooses Thailog over siding with Delilah.

THE CLONES, THE MUTATES, AND THE POWER OF FREE WILL: Maggie standing up and Delilah taking charge were both turns I applauded and worked well, Delilah's especially though I would have liked to have overseen her hearing the conversation where Goliath mentions her. Though, where did Thailog learn about Norma Rae? It took a minute to remember where she overheard Goliath's comment. This was my second favorite arc to Hudson and Robbins (see below). However, we still don't know what happened to Maggie or to Claw. We see Shari at the end of Issue 5 talking to Thailog, and supposedly she took Claw with her when she left the Labrinyth in Issue 4. Where is he? Did I miss something? (I hope so.)

HUDSON AND ROBBINS: The smallest subplot in the arc but it accomplishes volumes in just a few pages. It got a major revelation out of the way - that Robbins has suspected Hudson's identity for some time - but it didn't feel rushed or forced. It felt like every step was completely appropriate and the handshake at the end before Hudson left was the perfect cap. A total contrast to the Elisa and Goliath arc. Even Gilly and Bronx resting together was a nice touch.

BRENDAN AND MARGOT: Margot was predictable but funny, yet the interesting part here is getting a better sense of Brendan. Timing makes it clear he got Dr. Sato to help Goliath, but did he realize Goliath was what he was or does he think Goliath was just a man in a really good costume? Again, you can't answer that one but I'm letting you know the answer interests me.

DEMONA: I know she's a setup for later, but she seems out of place in these three issues if taken together as one story. Not much to say as there's not much of her around. I am left wondering if that page might have been able to be done some other way or at some other point to have better been utilized for this story.

CAMEOS AT THE PARTY: Fun if you remember the show enough. I recognized some and had to research others. I flat out did not recognize the Judge and guessed who he was simply because I had to think of what episode used a Judge. Seems too off model to me, even compensating for the costume.

OVERALL: Would I keep reading at this point? There's enough to keep me interested, but how Elisa and Goliath play out may be a real sticking point. We'll see.

ADDENDUM REGARDING ISSUE #6:I don't have Issue 6 yet (got stuck too late at work to go out the day it came out), and to be honest after hearing about the technical art gaffe I may just hold out for the trade in hope it gets corrected there and I can follow the story properly, especially since it is a stand-alone. I haven't decided. If I do get it and the queue doesn't close, I'll consider a review.

Ntripy writes...

I re-read issue 3 and 4 again before starting 5. I had thought 3 and 4 were great before but just knowing that I had the end of the story to look forward to made them that much better.

My first thought when I looked inside issue 5 was, "Wow, bright!". Compared to the dark tones of previous issues it took me a second to get used to, but after a couple pages I noticed how much easier it was to see whats going on and the similarities to the cartoon were superb. I look forward to Bad Guys even more.

I didn't understand why Delilah was in the castle when Owen came to get her, but later when Delilah tells Goliath, "Delilah can mean nothing to me" "Isn't that what you said, Goliath?" I thought that was because Owen had taken Delilah to a room with a monitor or computer and he showed her surveillance footage of Goliath and Elisa talking.

But most others who mention it seem to think Delilah was spying on Goliath and Elisa while they were talking, so I don't know any more.

On the radio play you say something like, Owen gets Delilah from the lab. I didn't realize the room was a lab, but looking again there are test tubes on the table so since it is a lab then I wouldn't think thats the best place to show someone video footage.

But you didn't say, Owen *finds* Delilah in the lab, so it would seem Owen knew she was in there, and its plausible to think he knows she is there because he put her there.

So why was Delilah in the lab?

Vashkoda writes...

It was nice seeing you at ComicCon, Greg! So as you know, I got issues #4&5 there, and I was happily pleased by the story. Even though I had read spoilers, it was still exciting to be "seeing" a new episode. You certainly didn't hold back on the surprises, with Brentwood's defection, Brendan's sense, Thailog and Sevarius's new scheme, and the rankings of the Illuminati. I actually got a kick out of seeing the audience's reactions to these revelations on YouTube, and I totally would have joined them in a long round of applause for such a great episode.

The only thing that saddens me about the comic is that you will be less forthcoming with revelations on Ask Greg, and that we now have to wait 2 months at a time for new material on the main series (I expect Bad Guys will have its own revelations, but mostly about its own cast). I suppose you will still be posting interesting timeline entries until you catch up to the full year, but those are often too obscure to make much sense out of ("Lexington takes a chance and loses"). I know that having the published comic is a better deal than having revelations on this forum that are nothing but unrealized possibilities, or "canon-in-training", but I will miss the excitement I used to have when visiting here, looking for new tidbits of information that once would have had the CR buzzing for weeks. Anyways, don't mind my rambling--I'm just being greedy and somewhat nostalgic. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Tibetan flashback, and the Bad Guys premiere! Hopefully the comics will stay on schedule.

Todd Jensen writes...

This isn't a question, but a comment. One thing that I liked in the two most recent issues of the "Gargoyles" comic book, and in "Eye of the Beholder", was that, when Goliath attends the Halloween parties in those stories, while the other gargoyles present, and Elisa, are wearing costumes at the events, he wasn't (or, rather, he was letting his "gargoyleness" be his costume). I thought that that was particularly appropriate, since while the younger gargoyles wearing costumes worked for me and fitted their characterizations, I think that it would have jarred to have Goliath "dress up" at those events. He has a certain natural dignity and majesty about himself that would have (in my opinion) been compromised had he worn a costume as well. Thanks (to both you and the artists) for leaving him as he was at those events.

newbey writes...

Switching to Karine Charlebois's pencil art was quite a change from Nir Paniry's, which I started to get use to. First off about the comic, was that Finnella & Mary in the future (they're suppose to have a part in Timedancer, so ... curious). Seeing Dr. Sato from Deadly Force was refreshing. The art for the first four pages was a little too disney (Thailog was just too cuddly). Out of 666 Illuminators, is there one ranked zero, or a one ONE? Life just gets worse for Brendan, maybe Margot is still mad about the terrorist thing in City of Stone (sorry, didn't mean any suggestions by that). The Gar-costumes were amazing; the boots, the open backs, elbow slots! Angela is certainly relatable to the teen girls, AND SHE IS REALLY EXCITED, IN THIS ISSUE! I've re-read the issue to see if Thailog actually used all 8-blades accordingly. It was nice to see the revelation of Robbins, kinda similar to Season3 episode Dwindling light. Who was L.B.J.? Is Xanatos going to be a gopher for the Illuminati(rumour)? Overall, the clone battle would've been funny as an episode, with all the voice actors talking (Keith & Salli shuving then luving, same with Bill & Brigitte). Delilah is acting like both Demona and Elisa in-sync. Did Elisa and Lex just sit there while Thailog cut a chunck out of them? Hearing Goliath's last grunt had me scared, but the 'I love you...' scene was perfect. Seeing Malibu with Delilah was just another blow to Brooklyn, cause that was a sense of what Brooklyn is suppose to become. Thailog being with the Illuminati was no surprise to me, BUT SHARI!? Why did I just learn her name now!? Hope the comic pulls through issue #11.
P.S. in Gargoyles #3, Angela's hair was brown, just to let you know.

The Imperfect writes...

I've just finished reading my copy of Issue #5, and I simply had to come send a comment. I wanted to say first off that I thought Karine and Stephanie did a fantastic job with the artwork! The artwork felt very true to the show, and more than any other issue so far, I felt like I wasn't just reading a story, I was actually watching it move between the still frames of the comic. Large and small details alike all just seemed to fall perfectly into place. The expressions were great, and the action shots picked the perfect moments and angles to capture. Nothing seemed off. This has been my favorite art issue so far. Excellent work, ladies! I hope to see more of it in the future. (Even if this doesn't get onto the site or into Etched in Stone, would someone please pass on my praise to these two? I'd love to let them know how well they did!)

Also, Greg, thanks so much for new Gargoyle stories! It's great to see all our favorite characters (by which I mean to say, it's great to see every single character that shows up at all). I can't wait to see what new twist Thailog and Sevarius are going to be brewing up to this time, or what the Illuminati are planning for their thirty-sixes. It was also really great to see Goliath and Elisa have their moment this issue, and Brooklyn's sardonic comic relief right after was priceless. It's just one of many reasons why we love him.

Looking forward to issues 6 and beyond. A round of additional thanks to everyone else involved.

Brigadoon Traveller writes...

Gargoyles #5: Bash

First off I have to say how spectacular the artwork is looking in this issue; usually I have no problem with the art and actually quite like Hedgcock's work - but Karine Chalebois' experience of the characters certainly shines in what has to be the best looking issue to date! It's not perfect, some of the characters look quite stiff at times (a minor, trivial annoyance in comparison), but there are some scenes which literally shine off the page. I love the view Brendan has of the gargoyles fighting, Thailog and Brentwood gliding off from the Eyrie look spectacular, and Delilah really looks gorgeous as she shines out as her own gargoyle. This issue has made me all the more excited for Bad Guys; with artwork like this hopefully the series will blossom.

But let's get back to the Bash - this issue brings an end to the first all new canon 'episode' and nicely wraps up the story in 3, 4 and 5 whilst setting up even more intriguing questions for future issues.

Side points that really shone out:

There's a couple of familiar faces waiting for us outside the lift; seeing Mary and Finella makes me all the more impatient for Timedancer.

Super-goyle: Brooklyn coming out of the elevator like that really made me chuckle - loved it!

The action scenes - this issue was jam packed with action, so much so that I forgot that Thailog's was waiting for Delilah.

Brentwood - Now that was a surprise! I really thought that he would be the one to rebel against his master, but more on that later.

Now onto the story:

One con about getting the comic a week after everyone else is that the internet is a minefield of spoilers. Despite my best efforts to avoid spoiling the story I somehow found out that Delilah didn't choose Thailog and that Thailog's real goal in attacking was to obtain DNA from the gargoyles.

This latter revelation disappointed me before I'd even got the comic- why? When I heard DNA I thought more clones all over again - which didn't make sense. Thailog already had minions which listen to his beck and call why make more? I didn't understand it. I still don't really.

But as I thought about it (after I actually read the story) I became intrigued. What does Thailog actually want with DNA of the clan? What more could Sevarius do with gargoyle DNA that he hasn't done already (aside from Voodoo magic)? And I'm sure Thailog being a member of the Illuminati (which was a shock of sheer genius) complicates the matter even further. I suppose I'll just have to wait for the rest of Clan Building (and hopefully the rest of season 3) for all of this to be answered. But I have to say I'm intrigued, even excited. And as for Shari, well, she's certainly full of surprises - a number 9! Greg you certainly know how to leave us begging for more! So Shari, the mysterious unnamed woman who's been hanging around in the Labyrinth, is now Thailog's new executive assistant and outranks him as a fellow Illuminatus. And what exactly do the Illuminati want with the gargoyles?

Speaking of the Illuminati, we're certainly learning a lot more about them; Duval is actually no. 2 alongside Quincy Hemings. Who is number 1 then? Hmmm…

So the greeting that started off as 36 : 32 and ended as 36 : 9 is actually a ranking system; with thirty-six 36s, thirty-five 35s, all the way up to two 2s and one 1 that leads up to 666 members!

The Illuminati are certainly turning into the big players of this season, with their fingers in almost all the pots; financing the Quarrymen, overviewing the taskforce, a high ranking member is now working for Thailog, and now they're sending Xanatos on secret missions. These guys are really coming out to the forefront dominating the entire scene from behind the curtains.

Enough of secret societies; lets talk clones again.

One interesting thing about Bash is that the clones, especially Delilah, really come out of their shells.

Delilah: One interesting point was Owen finding her standing around in Xanatos' lab. Wonder what she was doing in there.

I was actually surprised by her language skills; they seem to be a lot better than that of the other clones.

"Is that an order, Angela? Or am I truly free to make my own choices?"

I said that I unfortunately knew already from spoilers that Delilah didn't go with Thailog. So when I first read Delilah say "I believe this fighting may cease now" I thought that she was going to spurt something cheesy to Thailog about him attacking her "friends" so she isn't going to go with him. But to my surprise and delight she makes the above retort to Angela. And after that she starts digging into a wounded Goliath.

"You used me!"

Wow! Not only had she been secretly listening to Goliath and Elisa's heart to heart from the previous issue, but she now reproaches Goliath for bringing her to Xanatos' Masque Ball. Her general attitude towards the Manhattan clan seems to be one of a cold unconcerned frigidity; her short responses to Goliath's proposal in "Invitation Only" at first seems as if she is only acting under her 'Obey Thailog' instincts. And throughout "Masque" she seems quiet and unresponsive; she doesn't stand out. It's only in response to seeing her "brothers" in trouble that she comes out of herself. At first I thought her command to stop the fighting was addressed to Thailog, but I'm now starting to think as to whether she was also addressing the Manhattan gargoyles who she feels are attacking her brothers.

Now onto her brothers;

Malibu: Well he's certainly Brooklyn's clone; this green gargoyle's smitten with Delilah and I think the main reason he stopped fighting is because Delilah arrived and suggested leaving for the labyrinth.

Hollywood: Gar-girl (lol!) that's all I'm going to say!

Brentwood: This guy is turning into a real character! Interestingly he takes a passive role in the fighting and just sits on the sidelines watching. From his constant utterances of "free-will" on Maggie's prompting I was thinking that if anyone would leave Thailog to join the side of the Angels, it would be this guy. I'm going to be following his character development with great interest (hopefully it'll involve gaining better diction and vocabulary). "Thailog smart."

"Dude, you're really making me look bad!"

Lex's reaction though is priceless, but still quite shocking. I feel sorry for the clones at times; these poor souls compelled by their master to attack their "parents" who then later shun them making them live in the underground sewers. Lex doesn't seem concerned that his clone is aligning with the "bad guy" but rather that Brentwood's choice plays badly upon himself.

The Manhattan clan wanted nothing to do with their clones originally; but I feel this only helped to bring this band of misfits even closer. And maybe this abandonment helps explain Delilah's coldness to Goliath's clan. Last time they met she was beaten and chained by Angela; her brothers also beaten and then the five of them are taken in by Talon.

Delilah shines out as the more astute and most intellectually developed and as thus stands out as their natural leader. The other clones seem like children in comparison - "Labyrinth good", "Hollywood not fight" - and in turn Delilah seems to have picked up the 'big sister' role. I think this clan's development is going to be interesting.

Thailog and Sevarius interestingly rendezvous at Nightstone. One thing that struck me when Thailog attacked the Labyrinth to collect his "property" - this is the gargoyle that swindled Xanatos of $20 million and tried to kill Demona and Macbeth only to obtain their fortunes, why would his first course of action upon resurfacing be to collect his minions? He had invested millions into Nightstone and I thought his primary goal would have been to recover his company from Demona. Surprisingly (this issue is full of surprises) it seems Thailog doesn't think he needs to take back Nightstone hostilely; it's obviously more profitable to bankroll Sevarius behind Demona's back.

Minor points

Dr Sato's reappearance was a welcome return. And it seems he's now been thrust into friendship with the gargoyles. Look forward to how this turns out.

Brendan seems to be close to the end with Margot; he's also got another up close view of the gargoyles.

This review's seems to have turned more into a ramble; all I can say is that this issue was spectacular. I thoroughly enjoyed it. 5/5 well done!

Chameleongirl writes...

Oh dear freaking god!!

In all the joyful bouncing I was doing, I totally forgot something.

The KISS! (Once again, this is where the giant pink sparkly heart would go).

Greg, the next time I make it to The Gathering (ha!) I totally owe you a major hug (how about a bum pinch, that ok too?) :D

Chameleongirl writes...

I can't remember if I sumbitted a review for the last 4 issues, so I made sure to write one up today :D

I wish we could use HTML on this page, as I would write the word LOVE in giant pink letter, maybe with a sparkle effect. Because I truly do love it.

It's so exciting to get new stories, and this one, oh it just keeps getting better and better. Some questions are answered, a heap more asked and the tension kinda went through the roof :)

Brooklyn's costume reveal gave me the giggles, and I can't help but have a little soft spot for Brendan. I'd like to think he was the one who told Dr Sato that there was someone injured out in the courtyard.

Karine and Steph make an excellent art team, I can't wait to see how Karine goes with Bad Guys.

Greg, thank you once again for giving us Gargoyles.

Dan Wayman writes...

Wow! What an awesome new gargoyles comic! Number 4 & 5 were brilantly written. I also would like to say that Guler is the man, and Lostimolo is coloriffic. When I saw the cover of #5 I was thrilled as well as horriffied (poor goliath). I had to read it twice to get all the refferences stright.
The Illuminati's numbering system seems to indicate that for every number, there is that amount of people involved, is this the same all the way from 1 to 36?
I also feel bad for Lex since he was dressed just like his "future tense" self as a costume, and his clone brentwood chose to stay with Thalog. Could this be an Omen?
O.o Actullay Brooklyn wasn't having a good night either, witnessing all the couples holding each other at the end. I'm beggining to think that "Time Dancer" may play a role in his future (since everyone seems to be taken)Care to elaborate?
*>.<* still can't believe that Brooklyn's clone is going to make it with someone before he does, any chance that Delilah's affinity for Malabu is really because of her feelings for Brook?
I can't wait for the next Issue!
As alway's you ROCK Greg!

Ed Reynolds writes...

GARGOYLES #5
"Bash"

I really, really hope the other colourists on the comic take note of Stephanie's colours here. One of the big issues in "Awakening" was the colour and beauty of the city and this is the first time that I've felt the comic has really conveyed that to full effect. The colours on the comic have been good so far, and obviously the darker shades are more intuitive for a comic of this nature, but this issue really captures the feel of the series.

Obviously a big part of that is the tag-team with Kanthara's line-art. And I think you really see the benefit of having people on the art who have a long experience with the series, from little things -- check out the moon, just like the series! -- to the real meat of the story: the characters. Odd things like Brooklyn's superhero pose, the Lex/Brentwood panel really nail the essence of the characters, their movements, the way they carry themselves. All the star characters look amazing, the battle sequences, the cityscapes... a real joy. Smashing work by Kanthara and Stephanie.

Greg B mentioned that the 'Gargoyles' and spin-off art teams would be better off switched around and I do tend to agree. Kanthara rocks the core characters but is on the spin-off book charting new territory in the universe. David Hedgecock is the fresh eye but he's in the shadow of the original series which entrenched a very specific vision of these main guys in our mind. It seems counterintuitive. But I rate both artists and I'm really excited by the prospect of seeing their work on alternate months.

Script-wise, I enjoy the focus on a major narrative strand at last. I found #4 highly entertaining but with so many different things happening, no single plot seemed to have something big happening. This issue has much more momentum and while I love the expansive universe, I hope most stories won't have quite so many separate subplots.

Observations: -

- The clones seem to have characteristics of their 'parents' and it's fun to see how a few lines kind of sets them apart from each other. Brentwood has Lexington's appreciation for intelligence and perhaps some of his capacity for hero worship. Hollywood seemed to enjoy 'playing monster' ("ROOOARR") rather than being genuinely villainous; he's also the only clone who specifically says he wants to not fight. Malibu has Brooklyn's weakness for women, and seems to follow Delilah as keenly as Brooklyn briefly followed Demona. Actually the Clone-Trio's stories here remind me a lot of moments from 'Deadly Force'. Lex falls in with the Pack; Brentwood falls in with Thailog. Brooklyn is starstruck by Demona; Malibu by Delilah. Broadway plays with a gun; Hollywood plays monster. Hard to tell much about Burbank except that he seems to have Hudson's love of the home -- he latches onto the idea of the Labyrinth specifically.

- "I wouldn't want to inhibit you, dear boy" -- great line.

- Thailog in the Illuminati will be very interesting. I wonder how fast our four 36es will climb the pyramid... especially Thailog and Xanatos.

- Thailog doesn't want Goliath dead. Which isn't a big surprise thinking about it (even in "Double Jeopardy", the planned murder wasn't the main aim, and he's already seen the benefit in Sevarius), but shows his Xanatosian strategist side is alive and well.

- Picking up some earlier Ask Greg comments by Alex Garg and Greg B, the slight hypocrisy in the clan's treatment of the clones fascinates me. They boss them around, call them "stupid clone!" and "forgery" and "bastard" (admittedly two of these to Thailog where their disgust is quite justified). But the gargoyles are seen to have 'attacked' the city and the people of NY are lashing out at them, calling them monsters, inhuman, without emotions. But outside Goliath croaking Delilah's name, none of the clones are addressed by name, or even shown any warmth or respect. Lex can't even look Brentwood in the eye at the end, he's more worried about his own standing with the clan. They seek tolerance, but don't offer it to the clones in a meaningful way.

- I like the Xanatosian plan-within-a-plan ending but it does mean that, at the end, this story turns out to be a bit of a cue-chalker for Thailog and Xanatos. Where's this going? Suspense!

- In #3, Hacker said that Duval went to a lot of trouble to arrange the meeting at the White House -- but now we find that it's Duval's equal he's talking to. I can see inviting a couple of ex-cons to a White House party might be politically risky, but I wonder if it was more of a comment on the relationship between the two Twos.

A couple of questions:

1. If #3-5 was an episode, which title would it have gone by? It would be nice to have a single name to refer to it (like #1-2's overall title is still "The Journey" to me) as rather than just issue numbers or a bunch of titles. I think "Masque" seems to be the most all-encompassing title, and we start #3 with a mask on the table and end with an unmasking.

2. I'm not really clear what the function of the Clan-Building title is. Can we expect the last story in the arc to provide some form of (what I imagine would be very open-ended) closure for the story elements currently prominent in the comic, or is it just like a banner title for ease of reference (and for selling trades?), e.g. The World Tour.

Anyway, I'm having a blast. Everyone involved with the comic is doing great work.

Phoenician writes...

Hey Greg! Thought it was high time to enter my review for #5 Bash!!

First off, it's a shame I coudn't make it to this year's Gathering. However, now knowing that there's bound to be some surprises like Issuess 3,4,&5 for the Radio Play have finally given me the motivation to try Chicago (It's closer, so there's hope!)

Second, on my way to get this comic, I just BARELY got the last one. I followed your advice thi time, Greg and I told the clerk that if they keep running short (it was barely noon!) that they should start ordering more. He assured me that they would do so this September!

Anways, here's my thoughts for Bash:

Beautiful shot of the Eyrie Building. Nice to see the Third Quarter Moon too . . . reminder that it's only been about two weeks since Hunter's Moon.

Mary & Finella . . . Greg, you smug mastermind! You just love throwing little surprises like that, huh? :P

Nice to see Dr. Sato again, though I honestly forgot what he looked like since I haven't seen Deadly Force in about six months.

Brooklyn's costume was wonderful, and it was my brother who noticed that his red wings acted like his cape!

I always did love that line of Robbins' in Dying of the Light about Conrete & Leather, so I was glad to see that survive into Canon.

Quincy & Xanatos were quite fun to watch, especially Quincey's line of "Now don't get smart, boy!" Knowing his estamated age, Hemings has every right to call him that!

I noticed how Thailog kept retracting his blades and using new clean ones, and I first wondered, Does he have a Danny Tanner/Jerry Seinfeld complex of having to always be neat and clean? Then it all made sense: He was taking DNA samples. While I enjoyed this revelation, I was kinda surprised that Thailog would use an old tactic again, clearly when the last time resulted in losing the Clones.

However, I then remembered Xanatos telling Goliath that old habits die hard as well as the thought that maybe Thailog is merely using an old tactic for a new means . . . and as some have said below, he and Sevarius are probably planning an army.

The shot of Thailog & Brentwood leaving the Eyrie was spectacular, IMO.

Brooklyn has one of the best lines in this issue, "You gotta be kidding me!", while looking at Delilah & Malibu. Good lord, his luck is terrible . . . for now at least.

Finally, the new girl . . . well, we don't have to call her new girl anymore, now do we? Shari . . . and she's a rank of nine. And Thailog's a Thirty-six!! Wow . . . wonder what they did to earn those spots??

Speaking on the Illuminati Ranks:

It appears that only WE are surprised by Duval's Number with the fact that even Xanatos knows he's Number #2.

666 Members (or possible members) of the most influential people on earth . . . wow.

Who IS One? I guess we'll find out soon enough . . .

Anyways, #6 can't come soon enough! Thanks again for such a great return into the Gargoyles Universe!

brooklyn the red one writes...

hi greg iam wondering why dose't slg have gargoyles#5 yet what is going on

Shadow Wing writes...

ISSUE 5 - BASH

So, we see more of Sir Ian of Oxford, and also…is that Tom's mother and wossername - the lass who was smitten with Constantine? Bah! You're not going to tell if it is, and I can't be the first one to notice that.

So, Morgan doesn't feel too bad about being rejected - glad he was prepared for it.

Hmmm…so, according to this Number 2, there would be…uh-huh…666 members of the Illuminati. Was this intentional?

So, Brooklyn was going to be Supergoyle, not the Scarecrow. Interesting twist.
And you can tell, when Elisa sees one of Bruno's boys, that she knows something wrong.

Thailog's reaction to Angela's exclamation is akin to my own - I'm surprised that Disney let that through.

Yay for the Old Fart. And this scene is a little reminiscent of Hudson's "outing" in TGC: Dying of the Light. From what I understood, that scene was not one of the bits they took from you. Any reason you decided to include this?

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's…SUPERGOYLE!!
"I'm part of this clan…nothing will ever change that!" How sentimental of Elisa.

"So for decades, the leader of the Free World has been…" "shootin' the breeze in my kitchen every night."
This doesn't come as a surprise. It's been said that even the President works for them.

Uh-oh…Brendan's seen the Gargoyles…this looks to be some serious trouble.

So Thailog calls Delilah "Angel"? Interesting… I don't recall him using that pet name for her, or Demona.

"'Delilah can mean nothing to me.' You used me."
Interesting…I hope that Goliath can clear things up with her. I don't want to see bad blood between the two clans.

Mmmm…Goliath agrees with what I said last review. This pleases me.

So…Dr. Sato now gets pulled into "the know." Let's hope he can be trusted.

And you already know my feelings about the resolution of the Goliath-Elisa relationship.

So, Thailog is still working with Sevarius. No big surprise there…as opposed to the sudden revelation about Shari, Illuminatus Rank 9.

So, let's see…so far, we know of…
ILLUMINATI RANK 36
Matt Bluestone.
David Xanatos
Jon Canmore/Castaway.
"Alexander" Thailog.

ILLUMINATUS RANK 32
Martin Hacker

ILLUMINATUS RANK 9
Shari

ILLUMINATI RANK 2
Quincy Hemings
The mysterious Mr. Duval.

I have no doubt that we'll be seeing more soon.

Sleep well, Greg. Pleasant dreams.

Purplegoldfish writes...

My Review for #5

The art is beautiful...Karine and Stephanie did a wonderful job. All the characters on model, colors are great. Finally the male gargoyles don't have 200 pound boulder muscles.

-I love that first panel of the eyrie building! That must have been fun to construct...
-Mary and Finella-hm, don't know what to think about them. Why didn't they meet the gargoyles? I guess they're in costumes of...themselves from 1000 years ago? Cuz I really hope Mary hasn't been wearing that rag on her head for 20 years.

-Dr. Sato is on the scene...we know where this is going. Good thing he's there--coincidence?

-I love those altered glass slipper foot coverings on Angela. I don't think we've ever seen gargoyle foot wear. I also like Broadway's full lion body suit, even though he didn't have it on last issue. It's so cute, especially when we see a shot of his back with the tail hehe.

- Oh man, is Thailog mean or what? He slams Goliath headfirst into a wall AFTER he stabs him. Talk about low.

-So Duval's not number one. Hm interesting. There's been some pretty cool theories going around S8. I don't really know enough about Arthurian legend to speculate though.

-hilarious moment when Brooklyn makes his grand entrance as "Super-Goyle." I like how he shows up right after Margot is berating Brendan for his "stupid get-up". It's funny, when people in here were discussing what they thought Brooklyn would show up as and it wasn't the Scarecrow, I predicted he would be a superhero of some sort, but I didn't post my thoughts about it, ah well. I'm phsychic! Not really, cause I was totally wrong about Brentwood, which I'll get to later.

-Angela: "YOU BASTARD!" Mwahahah. Note to self...Angela is not a sweet little angel, don't get on her bad side-well, unless of course you're Thailog, who was able to slash the whole Manhattan clan singlehandedly. I have no doubt he could have killed them all if he had aimed for their necks.

-I figured Robbins knew Hudson was a gargoyle. Though I'm not sure how he equates the smell of "old leather and concrete" to gargoyles if he only heard about them on the news. And does stone skin actually smell like stone? Does Robbins know the gargoyles turn to stone?
Anyway, some nice elements from the TGC ep, "The Dying of the light" which was one of the better ones of that series. I always kind of liked in that episode how Robbins was annoyed at Hudson for assuming he would want nothing to do with Hudson once he found out he was a gargoyle. Robbins seems to be taking it all in stride here though.

-The fight scenes look great. Very dynamic, and I can tell what's going on, which I had trouble with in earlier issues. I especially love that bird's eye shot of the whole clan and the clones.

-Elisa: "I'm a part of this clan." I think here she realizes that she can never have a normal life as she expected to. How many humans are members of gargoyle clans? I'm willing to bet she's the only one.
Thailog comes on to Elisa as he slashes her. He seems to have a creepy attraction to her...eww.

-Xanatos gets his first assignment from the illuminati. I'm betting it has something to do with the gargoyles. This could cause a lot of problems. I love Xanatos'smirk at Quincy when he's a smart aleck with him.

-Owen finds Delilah...in Xanatos' lab...Okay. Delilah struts into the fight and effectively stops it. I had thought she would be this meek defenseless creature, boy was I wrong. She rocks! She really sticks out as one of the most attractive female gargoyles of the series, if not the most attractive. Goliath must have it really bad for Elisa since he hardly looked Delilah's way. She sticks it to Goliath--who deserves it since he was kind of a jerk to her--but she should wait until he's not spilling his guts on the floor.

-Thailog takes Delilah's refusal in stride. I wasn't expecting that. Obviously she isn't the real reason he came to the castle. He's such a nonchalant jerk-I love him!

-Brentwood stays with Thailog. I had thought he would be the one to go back to the labyrinth. Very tricky! I love Lex's reaction to it-seeing his clone's desicion as a bad reflection on him.

-That's such a beautiful image of Thailog and Brentwood leaving the castle-it just sticks out.

-I've heard that Brendan is the one who alerted DR. Sato. So he does have compassion after all. I hope he leaves that witch of a wife.
So DR. Sato saved Elisa's life and now he's saving Goliath's. Nice, they owe that man a lot.

-and then comes my favorite panels of the book, probably of the whole comic series. Goliath and Elisa exchange "I love you"'s and they kiss! SQUEEEEEEE!!! I've been waiting for this for so long, and seeing it in the morning before work literally made my day. I honestly didn't expect them to say IT so soon, so I was pleasantly surprised. And Goliath's smiling even though he's probably in a heapload of pain--Awwww.
(Though I am somewhat surprised that Goliath is still conscious at this point. Though it's harder to tell passage of time in the comic than in the series, so maybe the fight wasn't as long as it seemed.)

-Brooklyn: "Oh, you gotta be kiddin' me..." hehehe. Even his clone gets more tail than him.

-It took my third reading before I realized Thailog was in Nightstone Unlimited. Hmm, interesting. It seems Sevarius still works there. And we find out Thailog's primary objective for picking up the clones and Delilah was really to get DNA from the clan, one of them being Elisa's, hmm. Thailog+Sevarious+Gargoyle DNA= Very Scary!

-And then we have the shocking ending-Thailog is in the Illuminati, and he's working with Shari the "Labyrinth Girl" who's really high up there on the food chain. Hard times are coming for the clan...I wonder if the Illuminati are in on Thailog's clone plans.

Anyway this has been the most awesome issue so far and I can't wait to read where this is heading. Great job everyone!

Greg Bishansky writes...

This is more a ramble reply to Alex Garg's post, but I definitely think this is a fascinating subject, and could make a great Ask Greg discussion.

Honestly, at this point, I don't think anyone in the Manhattan Clan cares much about any of the clones. Any of them. What was the first thing said when Thailog appeared to perish and the clones had no where to go? "We can't just bring them back to the Clock Tower can we? I mean, they kind of give me the creeps."

Right there, the Manhattan Clan wanted nothing to do with them. Wanted to pretend they didn't exist. Let Talon take them to live in a sewer. Out of sight, out of mind. Not that the reaction is not understandable, it is. I think we'd all be uncomfortable around clones of ourselves made against our will and knowledge. It's a fundamental violation of our individuality.

Did any of the Manhattan Clan go down to see them between "The Reckoning" and "Invitation Only"? I'd be very surprised if the answer is yes. The one time they do go down, they want something. Goliath is following Elisa's request to attempt to date Delilah. Brooklyn... just wants to make a play for the only available female he's aware of. They were down there both for selfish reasons.

So, yeah, all of their talk about free will probably was less for the clones' sake, and more towards the Manhattan Clan's hatred for Thailog. They hate Thailog, so naturally they don't want the clones to be helping him. At this point, do they have any other reason to care?

Lexington's only real concern when Brentwood chooses Thailog is how it makes him [Lexington] look. Not concern for Brentwood's safety, or eventually having to face him as an enemy. Lex thinks it makes *him* look bad.

I know this is a pretty serious indictment of the Manhattan Clan. I love them, they are heroes, there's a lot to admire in each and every one of them. But, they're not saints. Which is fine, they're more interesting this way... if I wanted a group of pure goodie goods, I'd read a Silver Age Justice League of America comic book.

Alex Garg writes...

This is something that had I wanted to bring up in the Culture/Biology panel at the Gathering, but we ran out of time. Besides, it feels a little better to be able to ask this question now that "Bash" has broad exposure (although it's still new enough to constitute a SPOILER warning).

Gargoyles and Free Will.

A theme of Gargoyles since the introduction of the clones has been just how much control they have over making their own decisions, particularly given that they were programmed to obey Thailog. This comes to a head in "Masque" and "Bash," where the clones are bombarded with the "Free Will" message to the point where they can finally make their choices, but what's most curious to me is the pressure that they receive from the Manhattan Clan.

It doesn't surprise me that Maggie would bring it up in "Masque" - she was born and raised in a democratic society, so the idea that people have free will and the right to self-determination is ingrained in her psyche - but for Goliath and Lexington, and Angela to a lesser extent, to make the case for it in "Bash" was more surprising.

Goliath and Lexington both come from an era where there was no broadly applied concept of a person's right to self-determination. On the human side was the reign of the Catholic Church (and I'm writing very generally now) which in terms of ethics framed the argument for free will in such a way that while humans have the *capacity* to choose between different courses of action, our *obligation* is to obey God's commands; the fact that they did not was why we were expelled from the Garden of Eden. Therefore, under those circumstances, we don't really have a choice - God's infinite wisdom overrides our mortal judgments. That dogma then went on to inform the monarchies of the day, Scotland not excepting, where kings ruled by Divine Mandate. The idea that a king could be overthrown for unjust rule wasn't introduced until St. Thomas Aquinas, an act which prior to him (and even well after) would have been viewed as taking up arms against the will of God; and even then it was the laws of the Church which would be the standard by which a king would be considered ruling in an unjust manner, not the opinions of his subjects.

The gargoyles' "government" also has no apparent nod to free will or self-determination. Goliath became the leader because Hudson said so, Brooklyn became second-in-command because Goliath said so, and in each case the other gargoyles appear to acquiesce unconditionally to these decisions. Even in mating, you mentioned in the panel that gargoyles aren't necessarily choosing mates as much as they are naturally drawn to one another - even in human rituals it's a subject of debate over just how much "choice" we have in when and with whom we fall in love.

While you've said that gargoyles are free to pursue their own hobbies and curiosities, it doesn't strike me that alone is enough to constitute an understanding of free will in the sense of making determinations about leadership in the way that the clones were being pressured to choose between the Labyrinth and Thailog.

So from what we saw in "Bash," where Lexington demands to know why the clones are choosing to help Thailog, and where Goliath says that "choice must extend to those who choose unwisely" - which is a very different concept than a basic, arbitrary choice between right and wrong - I have to ask: Where have Goliath and Lexington gotten the understanding to ask those questions?

Angela also presents an interesting case, because while she was raised by humans, she was raised by humans for whom it can't be assumed would have had the same understanding of free will as you and I do having grown up in a democratic society as it applies to personal choice, much less in making decisions of leadership. So is her command to Delilah founded more on her hatred of Thailog, or is she also making a case for free will; and if the latter, what informs that for her?

Touching on the same vein: Since 1996 would be the first U.S. election year that the gargoyles have really been exposed to - it seems to me that in 1994 the Manhattan clan was more curious about their new physical surroundings than cultural; and it was a midterm election anyway with much less media hype than a presidential cycle - what do the gargoyles of the Manhattan clan make of democracy, given their less than democratic heritage?

Alex Garg writes...

My review and observations of issue #5, SPOILER heavy.

Starting with the big picture first, this issue is by far the finest to date. It completes the first new canon arc with great pacing, excellent character interactions, and action! Action is always good. The art, too, is some of the best Gargoyles artwork since the series was on air, but then Karine has been drawing Gargoyles artwork since the series was on the air and Stephanie coloring since that time as well, so I will avoid making comparisons to the other artists who have contributed to the comic as newcomers to the property (to say nothing of my bias towards those artists).

Diving into it…

The cover illustration was probably the most eye-grabbing covers I've seen on my local (…ish) comic book store's shelves in a while. It's been a while since Goliath has been so obviously, severely wounded - other times he's tended to suck it up and stay in the fight, this time he was clearly out.

I will be honest that I did NOT catch Mary and Finella's appearance on the first read. It's just been so long since I've seen them that I passed them over; but once I did recognize them, I was glad to see them again - and took my anticipation of Timedancer up a notch.

I also liked how the Judge's opening line was repeated by Thailog under much different circumstances (and I am blanking on the literary term for this…), much like in "Invitation Only" where Thailog took off of the DJ's opening statement.

Jumping ahead to keep with the conflict, I know you said at the Gathering that Angela was speaking *literally* when she called Thailog a bastard, it still seems to me that Angela, of all the clan, would be the least likely to drop that term - because even as Demona's daughter, it's hard for me to perceive even Demona using terms like that. But then Gargoyles was a show for a younger audience, so only you know what the characters are saying "off-screen."

As for the battle itself, Thailog does seem to be having a grand old time going around and slashing the gargoyles and Elisa, really, unopposed - even Brooklyn doesn't seem to put up much of a fight. More here than at other points he comes off as one sadistic, well, bastard.

Delilah's appearance at the end of the battle raises some very interesting questions - which I ask in a post right behind this one - but what I find particularly interesting is just how dismissive she is of the Manhattan clan in favor of her clan. She shuts Angela down, doesn't hesitate to stick it to Goliath, despite his pain, and she doesn't help Brooklyn to his feet on her entrance but rather Malibu. Granted, she has every right to be mad at Goliath for using her, but she seemed pretty cold to him in "Invitation Only" to begin with; and it's not that I ever thought of Delilah as being a friend of the Manhattan clan's, but I also hadn't pictured her as being quite this cold as well.

That she dismisses Thailog too, then, seems to be perfectly in keeping with her character - or what we know of it to this point. Despite being programmed as the "perfect companion," she does not like to be thought of as other people's property.

And then there's the conclusion of the combat where Brooklyn is shot down once again. It can't be easy being Super-Goyle.

Of course, Brooklyn's grief can't overshadow Elisa and Goliath finally coming to terms with their feelings for each other, but what in my mind does seem to rise to the forefront is how Dr. Sato is feeling at that moment. Not only have gargoyles been revealed to him as more than a good foundation for a costume, but that one of his acquaintances has a deep relationship with one must be a lot to take in.

I almost hope that he's too concentrated on keeping Goliath's vitals up to not pick up on Elisa's relationship to him, but somehow I doubt that.

On the Illuminati arc…

So we learn some more about the structure of the Illuminati; not only in the number of members (I should have expected nothing less than for you to have chosen the mother of all numbers in Western culture, and yet I was still surprised) but that at least the senior membership of the Illuminati does have access to a pretty good health plan.

As I said in my review/observations of "Masque," the personal staffers of powerful people tend to have the best access to said powerful people, so why Quincy's revelation necessarily *impressed* Xanatos rather than made sense to him kind of raised my eyebrow.

Then there's Shari, who I was obviously very wrong about being "third wheel." Really I don't have much else to say except mea culpa, and that Thailog looked slightly less than happy that he might be taking marching orders from her, "executive assistant" or not (whereas she seemed fine with it).

Back to the big picture…

What I like most about this issue is that it brings out everything we had seen in the last two issues - the way characters were behaving and interacting with each other, their motives and thought processes, and it resolves a number of issues from "Invitation Only" and earlier while keeping things open for stories down the road. Combined with the last two issues, it finally feels like we've gotten a new *episode* of Gargoyles out rather than a few interesting stories.

Very well done.

Antiyonder writes...

Read issue 5 today. Looking at the pictures, it really does look like I'm watching/reading the cartoon. Comments and question (though not in that order).

1. Has the Illuminati numbering always been consistent? Or has there been say an occasional 19 "20 ranked members" or 20 "30 ranked members"?

2. I was pretty much expecting Morgan to be the one who finds out about the clan, but Dr. Sato was a good choice as well. Nice to see Robbins figuring out Hudson's secret as well.

3. Nice to see that there isn't any lost love between Brendan and Margot. Though I fear for the fate of the Gargoyle Universe if those two have children. Demona, Thailog, The Space Spawn, even Mab couldn't be that much of a threat to the planet. Just had to say that here.

4. Been meaning to bring this up sooner, but thought I'd ask given Brooklyn's costume choice. Out of any of the Manhattan Clan, which if any do you see enjoying a good comic book.

As far as the absense of voice actors go, at least any mystery theme characters showing up will be more of a challenge to figure out without vocal clues.

Looking forward to #6.

Todd Jensen writes...

Bought #5 of "Gargoyles" yesterday, though I didn't get around to writing the review for "Ask Greg" until today.

* SPOILERS *

One thing that got my attention on the very first page was that Judge Roebling was talking to two women who bear a striking resemblance to Mary and Finella, not only in appearance, but attire. Coincidence - or something else?

I was also pleasantly surprised to see Dr. Sato return for the first time since "Deadly Force" - and have him being "brought in on the secret" in tending to Goliath's wound.

The revelation of the Illuminati's organizational structure had two eye-openers in it. First, Duval turns out to be not at the very top of the pyramid, but only one of the two Number Twos - which raises the question of who Number One is. Also, when I sat down to do the math of 36 ranks in the Illuminati, each rank having a number of members equal to the number of the rank (as in one Number One, two Number Twos, and 36 Number Thirty-sixes), I discovered that that added up to 666! I definitely hadn't seen that one coming, though at the same time (given how often real conspiracy theories connect the Illuminati to the Devil), I probably should have.

I got a kick out of seeing Brooklyn in his "Super-goyle" costume - complete with using his wings for a cape.

I got a chuckle out of seeing Thailog address Angela as "sis" (and it struck me as perfectly in character for him to do so), and was surprised to see her call him "You bastard!" (But you've got to admit that the word fits him, in more ways than one.)

I liked the scene between Hudson and Jeffrey Robbins. It even incorporated elements from the equivalent scene in the Goliath Chronicles (which was one of the very few moments in that season that worked for me), including the smell of "old leather and concrete".

Back to Xanatos and Quincy Hemings: I was also amused by Hemings' talk about his history at the White House, including the fun with two presidents sharing the surnames of "Roosevelt" and "Johnson". (As a side-note, I find it interesting - though I don't know if it's significant - that the two presidents whom Hemings mentioned both got into the White House through the previous incumbent being assassinated.)

I really liked Delilah's characterization here, including her rebuke to Angela for suggesting that she was not "truly free to make [her] own choices" and to Goliath for taking her along as a date when he had no true feelings for her - but also standing up to Thailog. She's definitely grown into a character.

I was amused that the one clone who sticks with Thailog is Brentwood (are we seeing another twisted fulfillment of "Future Tense" here?), and Lexington's response.

The scene between Goliath and Elisa as Sato gets ready to tend Goliath's wound was a very moving one. I guess that they've realized now that they're stuck with the problem of "how do you handle an inter-species romance", and that trying to turn away from it won't work.

Intriguing that Thailog and Sevarius are meeting at Nightstone Unlimited, since after "The Reckoning", Thailog would obviously be "persona non gratis" with Demona, and there's no sign that she's lost control of the company to him. (I assume that it's a clandestine meeting that Ms. Destine doesn't know about.) Thailog shows again how he takes after Xanatos in revealing the real reason for his attack on the gargoyles at the end - and I'm looking forward to seeing what he and Sevarius are going to do with those DNA samples. (Something tells me that it's going to definitely outdo the Clones in "The Reckoning".)

But the big surprise was at the very end, when we find out that Thailog's now in the Illuminati - and so is Shari! And that she outranks him. This really is getting very interesting.

The art was also very good - my congratulations to Karine Charlebois on it. The best art that we've had in the comic to date.

I'm looking forward to the upcoming issues now. May they continue for a long time.

* SPOILERS END *

Blaise writes...

BASH

I went to the Golden Apple at about 2pm and picked up the LAST TWO COPIES (I asked the cashier and apparently they don't stockpile in their backrooms). I pointed out to her the oddity of finding a comic with this particular cover in the "Kids" section (she said it's more of an "all ages" section...), and voiced my hopes that maybe this cover is moving more issues of the comic than usual.
But enough of that...on with the issue itself!

--I noticed "Mary" and "Finella" on page one as well. I doubt it's really them (unless there's more going on in Brooklyn's Timedancing than I suspect), but it's a nice little bit.

--We finally see Dr. Sato again, disguised as...a doctor. Very creative, doc.

--Morgan decides to bow out. He is a real good sport about this whole thing.

--Continuity Nit! Broadway's "Cowardly Lion" costume has changed. In the last issue, he just had the mane and face markings. Now he's wearing a full body costume. It's a bit jarring, unfortunately.
One thing I just noticed on Angela's costume--the modified "ruby slippers". Very fun!

--Thailog is just BRUTAL towards Goliath here. I mean, he uppercuts the guy after gut-stabbing him! He's also switched from "Father" to "Dad" and even refers to his other two parents by first name.

--Speaking of "proud papa David"...the revelation that this White House steward is apparently the same rank as "Mr. Duval" was astonishing! As was the bit that he'd been there since the days of Teddy Roosevelt (which leads to a GREAT comedic bit over which President Johnson he served under--"Now don't get smart, son."). Anybody besides me think Xanatos is REALLY looking forward to those "rejuvenation drugs?" And I am most eager to learn what Xanatos's assignment is.

--As for the reveal that there is a position above the one held by Duval...well, we all have our theories. :-)

--But back to the party. Margot is, as usual, chewing out Brendan--and dragging poor Dr. Sato into it--when Brooklyn makes his grand entrance.
...I'm not sure for how long I was laughing my ass off, but it was a long time. He even has a stylized "G" on his chest, for cryin' out loud! And both his entrance line and his pose..."Super-Garg"! Priceless. (Oddly enough, Brooklyn's pose makes me think of Daffy Duck. Maybe it's his beak.)
Of course, he immediately asks Elisa where Angela and Delilah are...oh, and as an afterthought, his brothers. That's when they notice Bruno walk by.
--Angela calls Thailog a bastard. Now, just having that word said at all in the comic made my eyes go wide. But the fact that it's ANGELA saying it! It's great! And do we need to dwell on how aptly that word describes Thailog (gotta love those archetypes)?
I also love that Thailog called Angela "sister." Creepy.

--Thailog slashing Angela and Broadway (which, oddly enough left me mourning over the damage to their costumes rather than their bodies) prompted me to wonder why Thailog had bothered retracting his wrist dagger in the first place. Of course, the reason is just a few pages away.

--Thailog has an interesting line here--"Gargoyles, protect you master!" Note, that he does not call them clones (or bother to say their names).
I did notice he seemed to wonder where Brooklyn and "the old fart with the beast" were. Kind of shows his opinion of Hudson, that's for sure. And maybe age and old people as well.

--Now we have the scene where Hudson and Jeffery have their chat. It's a nice scene to finally see in the "official Greg Weisman version," to be sure. At the same time, I will admit that it does seem a little sudden to me (and makes this issue the most crowded, yet). Still, it's probably better happening now than having it drawn out. Jeffrey's acceptance is no doubt helped by the fact that he knew Hudson before he knew about gargoyles, but it does seem that he wondered for a while. I will say, this scene was fairly similar to the one that appeared in the "Dying of the Light" episode of TGC. In fact, that "old leather and concrete" bit WAS in the episode. The "never shaking hands until now" bit, however, was a new touch that I really liked.

--The Clan fights the Clones. "Gar-girl"...okay, that's a new one.
I love Thailog's "...why does everyone insist on pitching free will to my minions." I did notice that Thailog slashed Lex when there was no real need to, which did seem a bit odd to me.
Anyway, here comes "Super-garg" to the rescue. "Forgery" seems to be Brooklyn's favorite insult to clones.

--Thailog slashes Elisa (she'll never get her deposit back on that costume), and this is perhaps the most pointless slash of all (it would seem). On my second readthrough, however, I note that Thailog didn't slash Elisa until AFTER she said she was a member of the Clan ("Good to know" he quips).

--I love Brenden's mumbling to himself (it's nice to hear what he really thinks). I wonder what his actions will be in regards to witnessing the fight.

--I like the long shot of the fighting. Lex is fighting Malibu, Hollywood's after Angela, Broadway is wrestling with Burbank over the mace, and Brooklyn (that ballsy son of a gun) is taking on Thailog.

--Hudson and Bronx join the party and Thailog...switches wrist blades to cut Bronx. When I saw that, I realized that Thailog was slashing all of them (or stabbing, in some cases) to collect blood and tissue. I guess he didn't feel like using mosquitoes this time.

--Owen finds Delilah in the lab (did anyone else notice?). I just found it interesting.

--Somehow it doesn't seem fair to me that Brooklyn gets taken out by a Bronx-projectile.
I love how Hudson (after getting cut) parries Thailog's blade with his sword ("old fart" indeed). For that matter, I love how Broadway inadvertently beans Malibu with Burbank's mace.

--Delilah really makes an impression here. She really seems to come into her own and starts speaking for herself (up until now she has just been responding to other people). Actually, it's a bit surprising how quickly and easily it comes to her.

--I love the smile on Malibu's face as Delilah helps him up.

--Apparently, Delilah eavesdropped on Goliath and Elisa's conversation in the last issue (which makes me wish we had seen a frame of her doing so, but oh, well). It doesn't matter that Goliath's bleeding on the ground, she let's him know she didn't appreciate it.
But she doesn't go with Thailog either (I love how she slaps his hand away...and how Thailog is not upset in the slightest about this).
Delilah was happiest in the Labyrinth, and so, it seems, were her "brothers" (I LOVE that she called them that). Actually, Malibu just wants to be with Delilah, and Hollywood's not interested in fighting (and Burbank gives a response that throws me back to "Bride of Frankenstein"--"Friend, good! Fire, bad!").

--Brentwood, however, is the odd one out. He spent the whole issue standing on the sidelines, not fighting, his only line until now being "free...will" and what does he do? He chooses to stick with Thailog because "Thailog smart!" I mean, it is a great "left turn with the right blinker on," if you know what I mean. And the best part: I KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN! Okay, I thought a second clone would also stick with Thailog, so I was only half right, but somehow I KNEW Brentwood would be the one to "know the power of the Dark Side."
And Lexington's reaction is perfect ("Dude, you're really making me look bad."). I'm still laughing at it.

--"And on that death rattle note..." is my pick for Thailog's most heartless line to date.

--And now Dr. Sato is brought out. I would like to know exactly WHO brought him out (Owen would be my guess at the moment). And his introduction into the world of the gargoyles certainly is abrupt (his dialogue for it is good, though). I will be most interested to see how he'll deal with this new wrinkle in his world.

--Owen mentions an infirmary in the castle. You know, it's a funny thing. I've read several fanfiction series over the years, and they ALL have an infirmary in the castle! Well, I guess that only makes sense, knowing Xanatos and his rather...unique lifestyle.

--Goliath finally says those three little words. And Elisa repeats them. And gives him another kiss.

--Brooklyn, sees this display and is smiling. He looks behind him at Broadway and Angela (standing side-by-side, holding hands) and looks a little sad. He looks to his left at Delilah and Malibu (side by side, her arm around his shoulders, his arm around her waist) and, with a sour look on his face says, "Oh, you *gotta* be kiddin' me..." Yes, I laughed out loud. Poor Brooklyn might as well go to a bar and get drunk now.

--And now we have the "Thailog Tag." Oddly enough, it takes place at Nightstone Unlimited--last seen being run by Dominque Destine (who has Thailog on her "KILL, KILL, KILL!" list). And Thailog reveals that (surprise, surprise) his first priority was obtaining 8 "DNA samples" from the clan. Goliath's suffering and Brentwood's joining were just icing on the cake. This already shows him as different than Xanatos--Xanatos loved outsmarting his opponents, but Thailog gets pleasure from their pain.

--Nice to see Sevarius so soon (and so easy to hear Tim Curry saying his lines!).

--And now the girl from the Labyrinth finally has a name--Shari--and yes, it does seem that she will be the Executive Assistant telling Thailog about Tibet in the next issue. She's also an Illuminatus (the youngest one we've met so far, as well as the first female). And surprise of surprises, Thailog is a member as well (which makes him the first GARGOYLE member we know of)! And he doesn't look very happy at being outranked by this girl (and such a HIGH rank she has for one so (apparently) young). What really surprises me about Thailog being a member is that he just seems to be so much his own person. The idea of him being subservient to anyone seems so against his character. But therein lies the interest.

--I've got to say, the Illuminati is REALLY moving to the forefront this "season." They seem to be everywhere this time.

--The art's great. Everything looks incredible and exactly like the series with great facial expressions. Still, going back and forth between the three issues, the change in art and coloring styles is very...jarring. I'll look forward to seeing next month's artist, though.
BTW, did anyone else notice that the clones are back to having black teeth?

Anyway, it's nice to see the end of the "episode" (although there's still a bit of a cliffhanger as far as the wounded are concerned). I will say that there was a LOT in this issue. Seriously, this thing felt practically bursting at the seems for more pages. I would have loved a bit more with Dr. Sato (both introducing him, and him dealing with Goliath).
Overall, though, it's another great story!

dph writes...

A few questions posed after reading gargoyles comic issue #5:

1)Are there more members in the Illuminati Society ranked below David Xanatos or ranked above David Xanatos? I counted potentially 630 people ranked above. For more members to be ranked below David Xanatos than above would mean there are at least *15* more levels below David Xanatos.

2)Are there always a constant number of people at each rank? In other words, the only way to advance in rank (aside from doing more for the Society) is if somebody higher ranked than you was promoted, demoted, or died.

3)When Matt Bluestone first joined the Society during Revelations, was he at the same rank that he is as of issue #5?

4)On page 1, is that Lady Finella and Mary (the mother of Tom)?

5)Are the 8 dna samples that Thailog collected from the following characters (in order of collection): Goliath, Broadway, Angela, Lexington, Elisa Maza, Brooklyn, Bronx, and Hudson?

6)Did Thailog retreat into Nightstone Unlimited at the end?
6a)If so, does this mean the partnership between Thailog and Demona isn't over?

7)Did Thailog join the Society before Demona and Thailog went back to Manhattan?

dph writes...

My review for the comic

I'm getting better at this.

Reading the last page turned made me feel like the gargoyles universe was turned upside down. I'd have to rate the revelation at the end with Thailog being a member of the Illuminati Society as topping Owen being Puck. It took a while for that revelation to really sink in.

I like the nice cameos that you keep coming out with, especially sneaking people in on page 1. It was nice to see Morgan knew what was going on. I really do wonder how you would pull Thailog's action sequences off if you had to live with today's s&p. Good thing you don't. It's nice to know the Illuminati Society isn't racist, with a #2 being black. As Todd 1st commented in the s8 cr, from the top down to Xanatos's level, there are potentially 666 members of the Illumaniti Society. Brooklyn's costume turned out to be interesting. Jeffery Robbins turned out to be a nice guy, especially after figuring out who/what Hudson really was and not rejecting their friendship. I wonder if Hudson will ever get around to telling Robbins some backstory. Xanatos's interaction with Quincy seemed very realistic. I wonder why they dragged Xanatos to the White House to receive his '1st real assignment from the Illuminati'. The action sequences seemed realistic with Thailog, the clones, and the gargoyles. Deliliah's characterization was great and saved the day. Goliath's line "Choice must extend to those who choose unwisely" echoes of the experiences with Talon being duped by Xanatos. Nice to know that somewhere in those floors is a fully fuctional infirmary. Somehow, I doubt that infirmary is open to the general public. It's nice to Goliath and Elisa coming out with the truth. I admit I went to back to count where Thailog got all 8 dna samples. And then we get to the last page. The conversation at the end that seemingly turned the gargoyles universe upside down for me. I can't figure out which rule that page broke that did that for me.

Can't wait for issue #6

Meg writes...

Gargoyles #5: "Bash"
First of all, I consider myself lucky to even have a copy of the issue right now. Somehow I missed that it was coming out today, so you can imagine my shock when I got online on my lunch break and found it was out! After I got off work I called my local comic store and although they don't usually reserve any comics for customers, the man I spoke to was nice enough to set aside the last copy for me until I could make it down. So. That was exciting, especially as I think this is far and away the best issue to date.
-Is that Mary and Finella I spy on page 1, talking to Dr. Sato? It's beginning to feel a lot like a Timedance....
-Poor, poor Brooklyn. His "Oh, you GOTTA be kiddin' me" was perfect. The irony of Delilah shacking up with Malibu is almost too delicious for words. (I also love his series of expressions over those three panels.) I loved his costume, too; at first it made me blink, but then I realized it's perfect. Brook's life dream is to be the admired, adored hero, be perfect, and get the girl. Is Fox a good judge of character, or what? ;)
-Speaking of Delilah, you GO girl! Calling out Goliath AND Thailog in the space of like thirty seconds. That's cojones, man.
-Brentwood being the only clone to stay with Thailog is very, very interesting. I wonder what makes Thailog's intelligence stand out to him, and also why he values it so much. And, of course, knowing what we know, we have to wonder what Brentwood's decision says about Lex/the future....
-I have to admit, though, I'm unsure if Hollywood/Burbank/Malibu have REALLY grasped the concept of free will, or if Delilah has just become their "alpha" leader. (Although, admittedly, only Malibu--for obvious reasons--clearly defers his decision to Delilah.)
-I like in general the concept that free will must be extended even to those who choose unwisely.
-I have to admit, the Illuminati plot didn't interest me at first, but it's getting better and better.
-Brentwood's right about one thing: Thailog is one smart dude. I wonder how many times the gargs are going to have blood stolen from them and used to create nefarious clones before they figure out to wear like full-body suits or something. It's interesting that he didn't want to kill Goliath/the others, as he certainly could have; you wonder if that's some of Xanatos' pragmatism (don't waste what might in the future be a resource) or some of his own inner arrogance/sadism shining through.
-Man, is Angela her parents' daughter or what? Language AND fury.
-Morgan continues to be an absolutely stand-up guy. I hope he finds someone eventually.
-I wonder why Sevarius is in cahoots with Thailog. There must be more going on there than meets the eye. I also wonder if Thailog knows that Xanatos was not at the party....
-Goliath and Elisa: Awwww. 'Nuff said.
-I love how one of Xanatos' Goon Squad walks through the party bold as brass and Elisa notices.
-Also wonder what Brendan's seeing the battle bodes for him/Margot and the gargs.
-Loved the Hudson/Robbins interaction. Just a ton of love for both characters. I love that Robbins knew but made Hudson say it, and I just, yeah. Love the whole scene.
-Gar-girl. Hee.
-Thailog's annoyed "MY minions" remark was great. I can just imagine the indignation in his voice.
-Art: I really liked the art this issue. Stylistically, it's the closest to the show the comic has come, and while it's not totally perfect (what art ever is), I really liked it and now am looking even more forward to seeing Charlebois pencil the BAD GUYS LS.

Jason Aiken writes...

Just picked up #5 from my LCS today, loved it!

The Clones Vs the Clan was pretty cool.. that sneaky Thailog got his share of genetic samples again. He's really a great character.

Also, the end bit with Brooklyn was funny... if I didn't know about the canon in training stuff I would be feeling extra sorry for the guy.

The Illuminati ranking system is pretty cool... And man.. what a surprise member! You really have to give it to those Gathering people for loyalty and keeping those tidbits under wraps.

Speaking of comics.. have you seen what they are doing to Captain Atom.. err Monarch in Countdown? If everything with him is resolved and he somehow returns to his status quo, would you consider pitching a Captain Atom mini or one-shot?

The era of DC Comics when you wrote for them is probably my favorite.. a lot of great stories being told in the individual books, without all the crossover stuff they try to force on people today.

Take care,

Jason

KingCobra_582 writes...

Issue #5.

Where to begin on how great it was? Hmmm... ah, the hell with it.

Vid The Kid and I picked it up at the usual place (where, By the way, we dropped off another set of Gathering 2008 flyers to help 'spread the word' and I was delighted to learn that the 1st set of flyers had all been picked up quickly.), along with a Star Trek comic. I read Gargoyles #5 on the way home and no words in the known English language could accurately describe how much enjoyment I got out of it.

The art was the best I'd seen since issue #1. Wait, no, scratch that. It was the best artwork I'd seen in the comic, period. Smoothly drawn and nicely colored, just as much as the cartoon itself was. I hope we can keep Karine and Stephanie around as artists for future issues!

Story-wise was great, but, then, who can expect any less when you're the one who wrote it? Nice twists at the end, (No, I still won't throw out spoilers b/c the comic just came out today) even though I already knew how it ended from being in the Radio Play, but I still loved them. They were clever, they made sense, and they opened doors for future story ideas. I can't wait to see more Thailog (one of my favorite characters) in action in future issues.

Another nice Hudson/Robbins scene there.

*slight spoiler* I was vaguely surprised that Goliath didn't have a reaction to Lex's costume, but he was preoccupied, so... *shrugs*

Another great issue, Greg. 15/10.

Or should that be 36/2? :P

Nice little bonus at the end. I didn't actually expect to make it into the letters column. Very kickass. :D

Though we never did get that soda... maybe in G2K8...

And maybe I should register for G2K9 as KC. I kind of like the sound of that. :P

Bring on issue #6!!

Greg Bishansky writes...

Gargoyles #5
Bash

Definitely the best issue of the series so far. Story wise, and art wise.

I've been sitting on this issue's story for nearly a month now, after those of us at the Gathering got a sneak preview through this year's Radio Play (I was Broadway).

Questions are answered, new questions are raised, and the end is very eerie but leaves you wanting to see what happens next.

Goliath and Elisa finally stop acting like idiots and finally say the words "I love you", and all it took was Goliath nearly dying to do it.

But, Thailog was the real star of this issue. He was all over the place. His plan was an interesting one, he didn't want to kill Goliath, he was there collecting DNA. DNA from each and every gargoyle. No longer he didn't care much about the clones, he's starting over. Personally, I think this will be less a clan and more an army... he's got a lot of gargoyle DNA for Sevarius to play with.

We sink in deeper with the Illuminati. Xanatos is now on a mission from the Society, at the behest of Quincy Hemings... chief steward of the White House (been on staff since the Teddy Roosevelt administration). His number in the Society is Two... as is Duval's (makes you wonder who One is).

Goth Girl in the Labyrinth finally gets a name... Shari. She also is a member of the Illuminati, her rank being Nine. And the big shocker... Thailog is a member... bottom of the barrel as Thirty Six with Matt Bluestone, John Castaway, and Xanatos. Shari is now Thailog's new executive assistant, and outranks him. This is going to be interesting.

As for the numbers... there are thirty six Thirty Sixes, thirty five Thirty Fives and so on and so fourth... all the way to two Twos and one One... do the math and there are six hundred sixty six members... or at least slots for members. Greg, you magnificent bastard.

The story was great, kept me on the edge of my seat, and that was with knowing what would happen.

Now, the art... for the first time since this comic started, I have to rave about the art. Karine did a beautiful job with the pencils... and Steph's coloring is gorgeous to look at. THIS should be the permanent art team. I know Karine will be doing the art for "Gargoyles: Bad Guys" this fall, but "Gargoyles" is the flagship book, and should have the best talent on it.

What I also did enjoy was the original cartoon was known for their Xanatos tags at the end of the episodes. You think Xanatos lost, but he reveals the subtle victory he achieved. Now Greg replaced the Xanatos tag with a Thailog tag... which in turn becomes an Illuminati tag.

The Bluelady writes...

Greg: good evening! Great fan of the Gargoyles from WAY-back. I haven't been able to find issue #5 ( June) of the Gargoyles comic. I noticed it isn't listed on the SLG site. Any news?

Hope to see many more years of The Gargoyles.

Have a great week

Katherine
The Bluelady