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Perfect example of two bastards, both clearly of that archetype, who are as different as night and day confronting one another.


No worries, this clip is clean.

Greg Bishansky

The Bastard archetype is really interesting to me just because there are so many facets and so many ways a character can fit the archetype (being a literal bastard isn't required at all, I don't think).

Part of my little WarCraft endorsement was that WarCraft actually has quite a few bastards. While I think he's more in line with a Shakespearean tragic hero (primarily Hamlet) Illidan Stormrage certainly fits a lot of the criteria of a bastard as I understand it -- he's unwanted by his family, he's caught between two ways of life, and he's a total self-determinator.

Arthas (pretty much his counterpoint) is more or less the antithesis of a bastard, he's a character in a very privileged position who struggles to live up to the pressures involved. There's also elements of the Shakespearean Macbeth and the Classic King Arthur in Arthas's character. Tempted by fate -- the character of Kel'thuzad who is kind of his mentor is a pretty straight combination between the Weird Sisters and Merlin. He picks up a magic sword that sort of becomes a symbol of his throne.

Sorry for the unsolicited (tiny) rant, that was just some of the stuff I wanted to bring up about the franchise that I thought might appeal to people here.


Greg didn't like Kickstarter it seems. I don't blame him.
Green Lantern's Nightlight

Thanks, Algernon. (That "CGI Brooklyn" definitely looked creepier than the original.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

Oh, BTW. Keep forgetting to share this...


"Tak does not require us to think of Him, only that we think." ~Grag Bashfull Bashfullson

Shakespeare provided both heroic and villainous bastards, though not in the same play. Edmund in "King Lear" (who is Greg Weisman's favorite Shakespearean figure, and seems to have been an unconscious influence on Thailog) is a good example of the latter (as is Don John in "Much Ado About Nothing" - though he's more of a plot device character to nudge Claudio's insecurities about Hero); the Bastard Falconbridge in "King John" (illegitimate son of Richard the Lion-hearted) is a good example of the former. (There's even a "non-descript" bastard, an illegitimate son of King Priam of Troy in "Troilus and Cressida", whose function is to provoke an enthusiastic speech on bastards from the foul-mouthed Thersites.)

Greg Weisman's suggested that the Arthurian character who, to him, most fits the Bastard archetype is, ironically, the definitely legitimate Gawain - and suggested that the Bastard had gotten himself born in wedlock this time, as an experimentto see if that would make any difference to his nature.

(The question of Arthur's legitimacy would certainly keep the lawyers and other scholars busy for a long while; though he was begotten out of wedlock, his parents married soon enough afterwards that he wss born in wedlock, and, once the truth of his birth was revealed, seems to have been accepted as lawful King of Britain - though it probably helped that there were no other strictly legal candidates.)

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

"Game of Thrones" just had a really epic episode titled "Battle of the Bastards", which made me think of the bastard archetype and how Thailog falls into it. One thing I enjoyed about battle is that we had an example of a heroic bastard and an evil bastard being thrown against each other. Nobility vs depravity... and yet both from the same archetype.

Not the first time it's happened. King Arthur is a bastard (though does he fall within the archetype?) and Mordred is a bastard (who definitely does)... and it's always fun to watch.

But cool to watch. Almost every time it happens.

Greg Bishansky

PAUL> It's possible Avalon adjusts a gargoyle's biological clock accordingly whenever they pass through the mist.
"Tak does not require us to think of Him, only that we think." ~Grag Bashfull Bashfullson

What's seen on the show is that Goliath, Bronx, and Angela never suffered the same "jetlag" traveling to or from Avalon that Hudson and Lexington suffered traveling from New York to England, and I'm curious why not. A Wizard Did It, of course, but I'm curious how the wizard did it.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

The Gargwiki has plenty about Avalon's location (with sources!) -- frankly, Greg Weisman's Canon-In-Training responses raise more questions than answers, but in a good way, lol.


In particular, the fact that Avalon (while definitely a part of Earth) can't be reached "in a three-dimensional manner" means that its constellations are seen from a unique point-of-view.

By extrapolated extension, this should apply to how they see the Sun and Moon, but who's to say how that actually plays out beyond what's been seen on show, which on Avalon has basically been the visually striking full moon that's (usually) seen in episodes d:

Speaking of space, anyone catch the news of our century-old second moon? The idea that's its a captured asteroid reminds me of Young Justice's Watchtower . . .


"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Actually, I'm starting to like the "gravitational anomaly" idea causing Avalon to rotate 24 times slower. It would explain why Goliath and Bronx never had any trouble adapting to the sun's position when they entered or left Avalon, in any case: Avalon moves westward relative to the rest of the Earth 15 degrees per hour, and wherever Avalon sent them just happened to be at the same longitude as Avalon itself.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Avalon's day/night cycle is something I have often wondered about myself. My best guess is that Avalon's sun is not "real" in the strictest sense but is magically simulated somehow. The mystical equivalent of what the Master Matrix does for New Camelot.
"Tak does not require us to think of Him, only that we think." ~Grag Bashfull Bashfullson

@Greg B. Well, that's the whole point of shapeshifting.
Green Lantern's Nightlight

So, when Puck is Owen... he's totally wearing a face mask and standing on stilts, isn't he? I mean, we've never seen Owen without his pants on.
Greg Bishansky

On further reflection, I see three possibilities.

1. Avalon rotates at the same rate that the rest of the Earth does, resulting in half-hour days and nights, and some other magic causes those who live on Avalon to age 24 times more slowly.

2. Due to some gravitational anomaly, Avalon rotates 24 times more slowly than the rest of the Earth does, giving it 12-hour days and nights despite its "hour inside, day outside" properties.

3. Avalon is on a different planet.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Avalon's whole "hour inside, day outside" thing is going to screw up a gargoyle's sleeping patterns anyway, and probably worse than what jetlag did to Hudson and Lexington in the comics. I'm curious why they didn't explore that further.

Come to think of it, if Avalon is anywhere on Earth, its "hour inside, day outside" thing means that the sun would have to rise about half an hour after it sets, and vice versa, since the sun is outside of Avalon.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

So I guess that makes me Ninth, anyway on Avalon it's eternally summer as decreed by Oberon according to the wiki. Though whether that entails everything about summer including temperature, weather, and the cycles of the sun and moon I have no idea. Personally I think that Oberon has Avalon on a 12 hour night 12 hour day system to be more orderly than how his mother Mab ran things.
"Shall we their fond pageant see? Lord, what fools these mortals be!"-Puck


Today's the summer solstice, traditionally the longest day of the year (at least, in the northern hemisphere). While this was, also traditionally, a time for celebration in early human communities, I suspect that gargoyles were probably less keen on it; the time of year when they'd be stuck in stone sleep longest (though at least they'd be well-rested).

(Of course, it would be different for gargoyles in the southern hemisphere, though we haven't found any such examples as yet. All the surviving gargoyle clans we know of are north of the equator - except possibly the New Olympian clan, since we don't know the precise location of New Olympus - and maybe Avalon, whose nature makes "north or south of the equator?" impossible to answer.)

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

A lot of people want Joe Books to bring everything back, even Aaron Sparrow, himself.
Green Lantern's Nightlight

Yeah, I'm confused at what "find out what's next" could have meant if there was no finding out what's next.

I wasn't there, but the cagey Twitter responses suggest there were no announcements. We've known they're trying to get something out for a while now, this panel seemed like it was going to be the confirmation but it wasn't so... ????????



People just had things to talk about so the countdown got left to the wayside. It's not a big deal regardless.

Anyway, I'm kind of confused about that twitter thing. Usually Greg is a bit more curt if people are asking about things there's nothing to actually talk about, so the smiley faces are kind of promising. Did they just not talk about 'what's next'? And that was a buzzline for the panel? Or...?



No confirmations or denials... Well, that suggests something, at least. I would think that if they weren't doing anything, there would be no harm in saying so. (Other than some disappointment, but that's better than getting hopes up too high.)

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Moving on...fourth.

As to yesterday's event in Sacramento...https://twitter.com/Aaron_Sparrow/status/744775895538237440

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Serious? You so funny, Aldrius.

Question = serious demand to know.

You so funny.

Don't blame me. I didn't make the accusation of someone being serious.

Green Lantern's Nightlight

@Aldrius Seriously? Ha! You so funnny. I know it's fun, but it came to a halt, and no one continued it. And it was a Sunday.
Green Lantern's Nightlight

The Trio.
Green Lantern's Nightlight

"Tak does not require us to think of Him, only that we think." ~Grag Bashfull Bashfullson

Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]