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Jurgan writes...

Warning: This is going to deal with some heavy topics (specifically antisemitism), but I was encouraged to ask for your opinions. Please do not take this as accusatory, I'm just a long-time fan who's been thinking about some serious issues over the last few years.

When I watched Gargoyles as a kid, there was a villainous organization called the “Alu Minadi.” I later learned it was correctly spelled “Illuminati,” and that it was a staple of all sorts of genre fiction about secret societies, where it was largely interchangeable with the Freemasons. It was also commonly used as a metonym for any sort of behind the scenes string-pullers, what Angel would call “The Powers that Be.” All well and good, until I was reading an article about Tim LaHaye, co-author of the Left Behind series. I found out he believed the Illuminati was a real, very dangerous thing. I learned that they were sort of a real group that disbanded centuries ago, but many people believe they still operate in secret. Worst of all, they are almost always at least implied to be Jewish.

I was horrified to realize that Nazi rhetoric about an international conspiracy of Jewish puppetmasters was so prevalent in popular discourse. Over the last few years I've seen more and more conspiracy theories enter the mainstream, and if you scratch the surface of any of them, there's almost always antisemitism underneath. Even truly absurd ideas like “the lizard people” are often just “wink and nod” references to supposed Jewish conspiracies. The biggest right now is Qanon, which claims powerful people do all sorts of depraved things with kidnapped children. This is, of course, just a modern reworking of the ancient “blood libel.” Many of its adherents go beyond coded messages and outright say Jews (or possibly “Zionists”) are behind it all. So now whenever I hear anyone talking about “the Illuminati,” even as a joke, my antisemitism radar pops up. Sadly, it's usually right.

All that said, what am I to do with shows I love that rely on such conspiracies? Of course, I'm not accusing you of antisemitism (I can think of several reasons that'd be ridiculous, starting with your own ethnoreligious identity), but I didn't know anything about you or any of the other creators when I first saw the show. There is some irony that the character obsessed with the Illuminati is himself Jewish, though I didn't know “Bluestone” was a Jewish name at the time. Where I eventually came down is that Gargoyles has such clear anti-racist themes that it's hard to imagine anyone taking an antisemitic message from it. On my recent rewatch, I noticed the punks in M.I.A. were basically reciting Brexit talking points about immigrants ruining England, 20 years before Brexit was a thing. “Golem” puts Jewish characters in the heroic roles and opens with what I now recognize as a pogrom. Also, the characters we see involved with the Illuminati do not appear to be Jewish. Malone is presumably Italian (though I suspect his wife was Jewish), the upper leadership in the comics are mostly from Arthurian legend so probably a mix of Christianity and paganism, Shari is Arabic, and Thailog is... Thailog. And they partner with a clear KKK analog, which I doubt any Jewish organization would do. Still, people do often take perverse readings of shows. I've seen people read white supremacist messages into My Little Pony of all things. And on rare occasions I've even seen people say that Gargoyles was trying to tell the truth about the “real Illuminati.”

This all ties in to a bigger question of how much responsibility creators and artists have for the audience's interpretation. There are shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad that clearly condemn their villain protagonists, yet some fans still admire these “antiheroes.” Alan Moore has said fans tell him they identify with Rorschach, at which point he wishes he were somewhere else. I myself am worried the “sex trafficking” plotline in my unpublished novel might contribute to harmful ideas. Sex trafficking is real, to an extent, but its reality is nothing like popular beliefs, and those beliefs were part of both the 80's Satanic Panic and its modern iteration, Qanon. These questions are enough to make me (more) neurotic.

I don't exactly know what I'm asking here, just getting out some thoughts I've been kicking around. I guess the question is: what do you think your responsibility is when making a show that mostly children watch? I know you were very concerned with your portrayal of gun safety in “Deadly Force” and managed to do it in a way that “concerned parents” groups praised. There was also the need to avoid “imitable” violence, hence Duncan getting killed by a magic glowing electricity bomb. Are there any similar conversations that take place around how conspiracy theories are presented? In the 90's, conspiracy theories existed, but they were more fringe. Today, they are much more mainstream, and you're making a show whose villains are “The Light,” which is just an English translation of “Illuminati.” Even without the antisemitic baggage the name “Illuminati” has, I still worry about giving people more reason to be paranoid. I don't know how I would approach something like that, so I guess I'm tossing the question to you. Thank you for reading and for whatever response you have.

Greg responds...

Let me start with one quibble: Angel used the term "The Powers that Be" as some equivalent to the Heavenly Hosts, not as an equivalent to a very earthly - if magically infused - Illuminati, as we had in Gargoyles.

Beyond that, I think you raise a number of good - or at least interesting - points.

Ultimately, I go back to something my former boss Gary Krisel once said to me. We had received one letter on DuckTales protesting an episode where Magica DeSpell used a magical circle, claiming we were promoting Satanism - that any use of magic in the show would be promoting Satanism. (The letter literally said, "Walt Disney would be rolling over in his grave if he saw what you were doing in his name." To which I wanted to reply, "Have you SEEN Snow White?") Gary said something like, "We're not going to give magic to the Satanists." Meaning, it's part of storytelling and fantasy and myth, etc. It's one of OUR tools as storytellers. And we won't give it up, neither to any one who wants to use those trappings to promote evil nor to anyone who wants to inhibit our creativity.

So along those lines, I come down on the side of "I'm not going to give Conspiratorial Villain Organizations to the Anti-Semites." And, as you noted, I hope it's obvious that I'm not an anti-semite and that neither is Gargoyles' Illuminati nor Young Justice's Light. (Q-Anon clearly is, though I know of plenty of Jews who believe in Q-Anon and don't see it (or only see a few bad apples using it for anti-semitic purposes). Go figure.)

Note: Most of what you're describing goes back to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a false text, blatantly anti-semitic, that has been used for over a hundred years to persecute Jews. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion).

So, to your main question, what is my responsibility as a creator? I think it has to be the responsibility to, in part, reclaim the tools of storytelling and fiction from fascists and hate groups of all stripes - including but not limited to the anti-semites. I don't think it's always possible. You can't reclaim the swastika, for example, even though that predates Naziism. But I think magic circles and fictional villain groups still have hope. Of course, if you are going to use these things that have been, shall we say, compromised, you need to make it clear that you aren't feeding into the negative stereotype associated with the trope. Hence, Gargoyles' Illuminati is being investigated by a Jew and is comprised of mostly non-Jews, including many characters from Arthurian Legend.

I also personally believe it's patently obvious that there is no real world equivalent to the Light or the Illuminati. The world is too damn disorganized for me to believe that ANY one organization is secretly running things. Or if they are, they're doing no better a job than the actual governments they are theoretically trying to supplant. I mean, what's their goal? Just to make everyone miserable? If so, then maybe they're doing just great.

Response recorded on November 08, 2021

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NoOneSpecial writes...

So, I’m trying to understand something about Batman Incorporated. The League is sanctioned under the UN, so they operate, more or less, within the law, but the UN can limit what they do publicly.

The Team is not something the public or the UN is aware of, so they are off the books. I’m guessing the League consider the Team to be largely an internal matter amongst themselves and don’t want to drag the UN into it, since most of them as their own protégé they are training, and others are young heroes they want to help mentor. But by the end of Season 2, the League recognize the Team as equals and allow them to plan their own missions. Of course, they still work together, but the League no longer claims to be an authority figure over the Team. But does that mean the Team is no longer monitored by the League? And if so, that means they are not bound by the UN and they don’t seem to be during Season 3.

This brings up the issue with Batman Incorporated. Batman and other Leaguers decide to quit and continue to work together in secret since the UN is blocking them thanks to Luthor. Jefferson is not pleased by this or the fact they were still working with the League behind the scenes. But how is this any different than what the Team was doing? They go on covert missions and help the League behind the scenes, while the public is unaware of what they do, and they don’t have permission from the UN. A good example would be in Season 1, when they go on a mission to Bialya, where the League is not allowed to go. So, the League were already working around the UN by using the Team. So, why would it be an issue for the League to use Batman Incorporated in what is largely the same manner? What was the difference in Batman, Katana and Metamorpho infiltrating Santa Prisca for intel, when the Team did that very same thing as well?

Yes, there is the argument that they are being no better than the Light be adopting their methods, but wasn’t this part of the reason the Team was created in the first place? After Cadmus, they realized the bad guys are getting smarter on how they operate, so the Team would help level that playing field. And yes, Jefferson has a point when he says they shouldn’t be keeping secrets. But the League was also doing this when it kept the Watchtower hidden.

And minor thing, but didn’t the Reach Ambassador expose the Team to Secretary Tseng during the conversation with Captain Atom? And if he didn’t, why didn’t Lex expose them to further his antihero campaign?

Also, are the Team, well-known among, I guess I would say, the villain community? Black Manta obviously knows them and told Captain Boomerang. But the Team has been going nearly 10 years now. Wouldn’t some word of mouth have gotten around about their exploits?

Greg responds...

1. The Team is still monitored by the League. But they leave much of the running of it to the Team's older members. They aren't bound by U.N. restrictions but should be. It's a cheat because the U.N. as an organization is not officially aware of the Team's existence. The members of the U.N. who are, keep the secret for their own reasons.

2. In a way, it's not. One of the things that upsets Jeff is that nearly everyone was in the dark. Another is that Batman Inc. (which was never really their name - though Jeff's repetition of it started to stick) wasn't simply going on covert missions but was manipulating people and events. It's not the Santa Prisca mission that upsets Jeff. But the Brooklyn manipulations are an entire other story.

As Jeff stated, he sees a value in the Team's covert existence and missions - not for the sake of them being covert - but because it allowed the young heroes to learn and grow outside the spotlight.

As for how prominent the Team is within the super-villain community, it's a mixed bag.

Response recorded on November 08, 2021

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Anonymous writes...

This is a question about the writer's room and your relationship with the writers.

Do you and Brandon develop all of the premises for the episodes yourselves? What if a writer comes to you and says: "I have my own really cool idea for an episode. Can I pitch it to you?" or "I don't know if you guys are planning to bring back Wally or not, but, if you are, I have a really cool scene in mind for Wally's return."

Would this be inappropriate? Is he or she crossing some kind of line? Is he in danger of being fired? Is a writer's job strictly to develop the premises you give her? Or, is there some flexibility to parameters of his job description?

Greg responds...

For the last two seasons, Brandon and I skipped the premise stage entirely, and we broke every episode together on index cards, and I took those cards to outline. Then Brandon, myself and the freelance writers are handed a completed outline. (We have no staff writers on the show, and haven't after season one, for budgetary reasons.) So, no, a writer can't come in and say "I have my own really cool idea for an episode." Freelancers are not in danger of being fired; they simply don't have that opportunity on this series. It's too intricately plotted. They do come on at the outline stage, and we talk through everything and try to stay very open to their ideas for the episode they've been assigned and to the other episodes in the writers room that day. But the story is the story. If they decide to bring Wally back in an episode where we didn't previously plan to bring Wally back, it's simply not going to happen.

But no one ever suggests going that far off book, anyway. That's just not this gig, and that's made clear up front.

Response recorded on November 08, 2021

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Alan writes...

Hi Greg, huge fan of Young Justice and all your other projects.
You said that the Green Arrow DC showcase and Catwoman Hunted loosely exist in the young justice timeline, that versions of these events happened but maybe not exactly the same. What team years did these almost events happen in the YJ timeline?

Greg responds...

No spoilers. ESPECIALLY not for Catwoman: Hunted, which hasn't even come out yet.

Response recorded on November 08, 2021

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Will writes...

1. Is Dreamer the New God a more powerful psychic that can get information that normal telepaths can't at least without harming them like she did in her first appearance?
2. What were the Light’s traditions that Ultra Humanite was referring too?
3. Why didn’t the Light dispose of Speedy when they were okay with it for the other sidekicks when they were captured in Cadmus?
4. What was the official reason/cover story that Lex Luthor had held Speedy captive for so long?
5. Could martians have children with humans or atlanteans or
even other aliens?

Greg responds...

1. "More powerful" than whom? I'm not too big on power comparisons. Her powers are different but overlap with other psychics we have in the series.

2. I think he states it fairly clearly in the episode.

3. They thought he might be useful, and by that time there was no fear that his existence would out their clone.

4. I don't understand this question. Cover story for whom?

5. It's a good question... that I'm not going to answer, as any answer could constitute a potential spoiler.

Response recorded on November 08, 2021

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Liam writes...

What type of music does the main young justice team like? I’d specially like to know for Artemis, Miss Martian, and Aquaman (Artemis because she’s my favorite, but the other two because they’re from different cultures and I’m interested to know what they would think of human music and what kind they’d like)

Greg responds...

I'm going to leave that to your interpretation.

Response recorded on November 08, 2021

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Verdragon writes...

What is your favorite episode of each (complete) season of Young Justice so far? Which ones do you think are objectively the best of each season?

Greg responds...

I don't have conclusive or definitive feelings about them in the way you seem to be implying.

I am very fond of Independence Day, Misplaced, Summit, Endgame, Evolution and Overwhelmed. But I honestly love every episode (like a proud papa).

Response recorded on November 05, 2021

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Antiyonder writes...

1. Is there still the interest in doing a Young Justice/Scooby Doo film? I figure even with YJ now being for a older audience it wouldn't be out of place considering Scooby's appearance on Supernatural.

2. Was it planned as a canon story (and as such the Mysteries Inc. Gang being part of continuity)? Or does the Newsgirl Legion presence change such is previously a yes?

Greg responds...

1. Brandon and I are still interested. I don't know that anyone else at WB ever was.

2. We never got that far. But we were, at the time, willing to do a Scooby import into the YJ universe, or a YJ import into the Scooby universe.

Response recorded on November 05, 2021

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Nick writes...

Hi Greg, I'm glad that Phantoms has premiered now. Almost flipped when hearing we can watch them on HBO Max after the DC Fandome was done. I like how the heroes are not given a big issue to deal with like in the last two seasons. Feels like going back to the first season roots.

Anyway I enjoyed the first two episodes and I have a few questions from them and I can promise that none of them involve spoilers.

1. What's with the iris-change in the Martian eyes? How come J'onn didn't have them when he was on Earth? They look better.

2. Are Harper Row and her brother adopted by Snapper and Beth?

3. One scene I didn't get in "Schooled" was when M'gann formed multiple arms to fight the Monqis and then freaks out after Wally freaks out seeing her with the arms. I don't get it?

4. Is Phil Bourassa not working on the show anymore? I noticed someone else is in charge of character design. Did Dou Hong work under him?

Thank you and till next time.

Greg responds...

1. The iris change allowed them to take in more light on Mars, I believe.

2. Fostered.

3. His reaction startled her.

4. Dou worked as a character designer on Season Three under Phil. Phil moved on after Season Three, and Dou was promoted to Model Supervisor. We also brought back Jerome Moore, who did characters for us during Seasons One and Two, and brought in Austin Reinkins to design with Dou and Rome.

Response recorded on November 05, 2021

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LoboGuara5bruxaria writes...

Hey Greg, on more than one occassion someone have asked you how strong an average Martian is when compared to a average Atlantean, but you had responded that it is hard to give an straight answer since martians can augment their strength with their shape/denseshifting abilities and telekinesis. So allow me to ask you this:

1) How strong to you think an average Martian is in their... "Biologically Natural*" form without any telekinesis involved when compared to the average Atlantean? I am NOT asking exact numbers of "Y Character is X times stronger/weaker than Z character", but more on a "I think X is a bit stronger/weaker than Z" kind of way.

2) How strong to you think an Average Gargoyle from Gargoyles is when compared to Young Justice's Average Atlantean and "Biologically natural" Martian?

*I say "Biologically Natural" form of Martians (That one of large bipedals with narrow waists and exposed gums) than True Form, since for a species of shapeshifters "true form" would likely be the one they are personally most confortable to stay in. Am I right or wrong on that regard?

Greg responds...

1. These kinds of questions are not really of much interest to me. You're trying to remove all situational criteria, but life is entirely situational. I guess by the terms you're using that Atlanteans are stronger than Martians. But the terms only exist in a vacuum of circumstance, which can never occur - not even in a vacuum.

2. Now, you're crossing shows? No. I'm not going there. Watch the two series. See what you see. Make your own evaluations.

3. Every Martian is different.

Response recorded on November 05, 2021


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