A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 29, 2007

Index : Hide Images

I wonder when the reprint of issue 6 will be released... I hope by next week. Well I was planning to go to San Jose, CA for a couple days with my mom around November 5, and I was just thinking of going to SLG and pick up a copy... I would have to special order it normally, since now I moved to Southern Oregon... But I was just wondering if anyone heard of anything new about the day it would be released since I'm going to San Jose soon anyways. Even though I'm not sure if anyone knows, since SLG's page only says it will be November.
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]

Or maybe the Illuminato is manipulating all sides for some unknown purpose.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]

I wonder if Lex would be offered membership... probably later, when he starts his business. *shrugs* Just a thought.

Anyway, of the three different stands the Illuminati was taking on the Gargoyle issue in "Invitation Only", I tend to think one of thm has to be the right one... but maybe the Illuminati hasn't made up it's mind or is simply playing each side to their advantage... I dunno.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Obviously they have an interest in the gargoyles, but I don't think it boils down to capturing them. Obviously, if that were the case, Thailog wouldn't be a member.

I actually wonder if, sometime down the road, Goliath will be offered membership.

Greg Bishansky

MATT - That's a good question. For that matter, do we know for certain that the Illuminati are really interested in the gargoyles? A lot of Xanatos's schemes seemed to be about the gargoyles, but really had a different objective; for all that we know, the Illuminati may be doing the same thing. (Though I think that they really do have some interest in the gargoyles. I just couldn't resist bringing that possibility up.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

You know who is back yet again - http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10074

Matt - <why are they playing the different angles (see "Invitation Only")?> I have an answer. It's about control and power/knowledge. By having a hand in everybody's cookie jar, they can effectively monitor everything going on and are in a position of take advantage of opportunities as well as make each side more indebted to them. Besides that, how do we know that there are not different factions backing each 'angle'?

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

LOL at this bullet from the trivia section for Demona on Wikiality:

-Has said "Paris belongs to me."

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

Todd> "...that also explains the Illuminati's apparent lack of activity in the period between "Revelations" and "The Journey"; they were busy preparing for the next move against the gargoyles."

Which brings us to the main question. WHY is the Illuminati trying to be a major, but secret, thorn in the gargoyles' side? Or at least, why are they playing the different angles (see "Invitation Only")?

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Re: the Demona entry on Wikiality - "Rumors of incestuous and lesbian relationships." - I have no idea what that's all about. ;)

243 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"There's no need to be nice on the way up, 'cause you're not coming down." - Genesis, "Paperlate"

TODD >> He's back!

And he's got company/an alias/friends this time. Maybe at least one of them can be taken care of with a quote of the archives?

Vaevictis Asmadi
"Open the door, Fang! Protect the weak, Fang! Oh Fang this! Oh Fang that!" - Fang

It makes sense to me that the Illuminati were setting up the Quarrymen before the events in "Hunter's Moon". I doubt that even they could have made all those hoods and hammers in the period between "Hunter's Moon" and "The Journey" (which would have to have been brief, since the Hunter's Moon in 1996 was on October 26, and the events in "The Journey" would have to have taken place before Xanatos's Halloween party five days later). Come to think of it, that also explains the Illuminati's apparent lack of activity in the period between "Revelations" and "The Journey"; they were busy preparing for the next move against the gargoyles.

My favorite revelation from the "This Day in the Gargoyles Universe" regarding the Canmores and Illuminati was how the Illuminati approached the Canmores before the events of "Hunter's Moon", but Jason turned them down. That fits in with what we saw of his character: I suspect he took an attitude of "This is my family's duty. We don't need any outsiders helping us."

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Those links will work now. Certain characters aren't allowed in URLs (per rfc 1738) like semi-colons. Those should be turned into escaped characters (%20, for example, is the code for a space). However many browsers allow characters beyond what's defined in the RFC so I just need to keep adding them as needed.

although i may remove the semi-colon in the link creation code because it might be possible to use that to insert javascript code into links.

Gorebash

HoE: hahahaha I love the bear-lovers thingy. If you happen to read the KKK page you can read things like thise The only difference is that THEY ARE SERIOUS ABOUT IT lol
Demon@

hi! i wanted to know if u can give me the accords of these songs "the will to love" and "the demon in me".thanks anticipated
zombie_doom - [hard_emo_skull at yahoo dot com]

Thanks.
tonY tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Toni> I can answer the first one: he's using the royal "we," which is intended to mean he's speaking for the state. Think Queen Victoria's (attributed quote), "We are not amused."
As for the difference between Avalon and Oberon welcoming the fey back, that's a little harder. I know Oberon sees them as his subjects, not as his literal children (they took on that designation after he took over as ruler). Avalon may be closer to the truth, but I can't say for sure. I do know many of the Third Race see Avalon as home.

Asatira

Demon@: Do a search on the wiki for People for Interspecies Tolerance. That one's great.

Tony: I think most of them are just called Oberon's children in the sense that they're his subjects. He does have actual children. According to Greg, Merlin is a son he had with a human woman. He and Titania did have some children together, but I don't think Greg has talked too much about them or said who they are. But other people know the archives better than me.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The fist will run, grasp metal to gun. Our Spirit sings in crashing tones, we gain the battle drum. Our cries will shrill, the air will maon and crash into the dawn. The pen won't stay the demon's wings, the hour approaches, pounding out the Devil's sermon." -Yes ("The Gates of Delirium")

I've been watching some late season 2 on tv and had a few questions that you guys probably know the answer to.

1) Why does Oberon refer to himself as 'we'?

2) During the Gathering, Oberon says, "Avalon welcomes its children home. Oberon welcomes his children." What the difference between the two? Who are Oberon's children? Who are Avalon's children? Are Avalon's children Mab's children and/or creatures born on Avalon?

Tony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Siren> Cool videos. I really liked Missing.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

GB: LOL
I read Demona´s too "Only wants people to think she's a fictional cartoon character" I almost chocked in laughter with that one

Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

Very interesting reveal in yesterday's TDiGUH. Not only was the Illuminati responsible for setting up Jon Canmore with his new Castaway indetity, they also apparently were already developing the Quarrymen organization and simply put him in charge. (I'm assuming we didn't know this before.)
Demonskrye

The Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon video was pretty good. It must be fun creating a music video of Gargoyles. Too bad I don't have the resources to do one myself. :(
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Damn homework...

Remember the Stephen Colbert wiki (Wikiality), I and a few others, most notable AlexGarg, put a few "Gargoyles" characters up on there, well, here's Thailog:

http://www.wikiality.com/Thailog

If I weren't already bound for the Special Hell, this has secured my place. A word of warning, it is depraved.

Greg Bishansky

Completely different-topic:

The GMVD has been updated again with two new videos from Siren (finally!). Maybe you've seen them before, maybe not, but here's an opportunity to check out some more great Gargoyles music videos. Keep watching, keep editing.

Love Lost (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon)
http://www.livevideo.com/video/981D69B428D74528AC456D5341E7B02A/cheers-darlin-.aspx

Missing (Demona)
http://www.livevideo.com/video/F331794DE1914BC0A86010A3761CE640/missing.aspx

/pimpage

Spoonvonstup - [<--- Gargoyles Music Video Database]

Vaevictis: I think she was referring to the "Little Bad" of the first issue. Karine may not know who the "Big Bad" of the overall series is yet.
Greg Bishansky

Matt, maybe it has problems with colons.

Anyway, did anyone get to wondering what sort of opponent the "big bad" of issue one is? I'd been expecting that they would first be pitted against each other, defeating and then recruiting each member in turn.

I was intrigued by Karine's use of he/she/it to refer to the series' ultimate "big bad." It's canon now that Duval is a Mr., so is she referring to Number 1? Or only to the opponent for these six issues?

Vaevictis Asmadi
"Open the door, Fang! Protect the weak, Fang! Oh Fang this! Oh Fang that!" - Fang

If I had to kill some, I wouldn't be proud of it, but real life does require hard choices.

For the record, I do enjoy Silver Age though.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

HoE: Well, actually I AM GOD! Consider your Prayers heard, my son
Demon@

GOD DAMN IT That was me again Stupid computer
Demon@

Patrick: "Anyone who can kill people and feel no remorse at all strikes me as pretty close to a sociopath."

Exactly And thats exactly what separetes good people from evil people. Even many soldiers, after Coexisting with death for several years, dont see death as something good. They are depressed people with many problems. How many cases are there of suicides among war survivors?. Or people who kill defending themselves They feel remorse, even knowing they had no choice And thats exactly were I was poining at

I do agree with most of the things you have said before, besides some political differences. And I also agree that thise is very interesting. Besides, having the chance to talk about it with people of different countries (and cultures) is priceless But most people tend to get offended (I do also sometimes) and apparently the rest really doesnt want to keep talking about it But it would be nice to talk with you about a few details, though. A discussion about Irak and communism would be interesting Just let me know if you want to also Maybe the msn is a best choice for thise

Anonymous

Is there a set amount of characters you can have in a link?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Look like we're stuck with copy and paste. It jus ain't working.
Demonskrye

http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=006791

You didn't have all of the address underlined, so I thought i'd repost it here.

Antiyonder

I just found out that Marina Sirtis is at Collectormania signing autographs in Milton Keynes here in the UK. I would have gone if I found out earlier. I could go tommorrow but there's no bus.
vicky82 - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

gxb - ty for the link.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Karine Charlebois did an interview about her work on "Bad Guys". Check it out:

http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=006791

Greg Bishansky

Greg B> Because I don't want to get involved, I'll answer your post: Yes, It is pretty likely that Fiona has those drugs.

My Great, great Great Uncle lived in Poland from something like 1820 untill 1932. He was 111 years old. I don't think he had rejuvination drugs... he always said (I never met him; my relatives passed on this story) that he has a glass of wine and a cigar every day since he was 30. Huh.

Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
For California... Let there be rain...

Patrick> I think the point is that the killing of the soldiers was a thing that had to happen, not something that the winners should celebrate doing. It would've been wonderful if the Nazis could have been stopped without any war involved, but that wasn't the case. The effect that came from the war was good, but the actual killing was not good in and of itself, it just had to happen for the effect to come about.

"Every life is precious," and all that. Killing someone isn't something you say "Yay, I killed that guy. I did a great thing!" for. It's something you say "I did what I had to do" about. And then generally you feel sick afterward.

Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Demon@: That's terrific. I agree with almost everything you say. I like to use the word "sin." I believe that killing another person is always a sin. However, it can sometimes be justified by extreme circumstances. We're mortal men and women living in a world that was never meant to be easy, and sometimes we can't find the optimal choice in time. But shrugging our shoulders and saying "well, that was what had to happen" is moral cowardice. A much more impressive stance is to say "why was this terrible thing necessary?" That way, hopefully you can prevent the necessity of doing it the next time it comes around (much of this is coming from Trigun, one of the best animes ever made). I'm not saying someone in a kill or be killed situation is evil for killing, but it's not something to be celebrated. Anyone who can kill people and feel no remorse at all strikes me as pretty close to a sociopath.

To follow-up on the WWII example: Yes, it was necessary to defeat the Nazis. Maybe there was another way to do it, but I doubt it. Don't let anyone tell you that that was a pure ideological struggle between good and evil. After all, look who our biggest ally was (Joseph Stalin). And the conflict with America started over Pacific oil resources, not the humanitarian crises in Poland and China. Still, that doesn't make the Allies wrong, but I'm sure you can find examples of what might be called war crimes committed by the Allies. The war itself was not a crime, because it was necessary and fought in self-defense. However, the moral response is to realize that it was a tragedy and do one's best to prevent it from happening again. Truman understood this. Yes, he ordered the dropping of atomic bombs, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, but it was a necessary evil in his mind. The lesson of WWII, though, was that tyrants have to be stopped before they become a threat. So he started the firm stand against the USSR, with the Berlin airlift, and the recovery of European economies with the Marshall Plan to prevent their being tempted to turn to communism. Truman doubtless thought WWII was necessary, but that doesn't mean the fact of our killing millions of people on the other side should be celebrated. Rather, we should learn from our mistakes and prevent their happening again (sadly, I think this lesson was applied overzealously, leading to a different kind of mistake in Vietnam, among others).

That's why I'm so disturbed by the "patriotic" fervor for war in the Middle East. If someone honestly believed that Iraq was a threat and that war was a necessary evil, then I respect that. There was, after all, a lot of misinformation going around in 2003. What I don't respect is the people who seemed downright jubilant at the idea of fighting a war. You see people cheer at the notion of bombing other countries (never mind civilians, including children, getting blown up) and putting a boot in their ass. Yes, war can be the only option at times, but it should never be something to cheer about. It should be approached with solemnity and regret for the necessity of it. That's my take.

I hope no one's upset that we're off-topic, because this is very interesting to me.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"Think of a sword as a part of your body." "Like a second head!" "Mmm, more like an extra-long, really sharp arm." -Sokka and his master, from Avatar: The Last Airbender

Demon@: <As Im typing from heaven I didnt knew that.> No kidding. Hey, if you see God, tell him thanks for making ninjas and seafood. Also, tell him if he gives George Lucas syphilus, I'll consider his gambling debt paid off.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

Patrick: Im not trying to convice anyone. I dont consider myself the owner of the whole truth. Thats just what I think. But a comment, and I hope it doesnt offend you guys, but the nuclear bombs didnt hit an army, It destroyed two cities. Cities full of inocent people who may have had agreed or not, to the way. Was that good and ethical? Even if it stop the war? Its the most Demona- thing I have seesn so far in real life
Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

Are you trying to convince me that stopping the Nazi war machine at all costs was NOT a "good and ethical" thing to do because it involved killing German soldiers who considered themselves patriots? There was a lot of killing in WWII on both sides, but there was clearly one side that did a whole lot more of the unethical kind of killing than the other. And "just following orders" was not a valid defense for what the Nazis and the Japanese did to the civilian populations of the lands they controlled.

244 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required." - Sir Winston Churchill

HANNIBAL RISING was a dreadful movie.
Christine - [<--------- 2008 Anthology Guidelines!]

" What society is that? Because I live on Earth, where a lot of people find themselves in life or death struggles every single day."

NOOOOO Really??!! Heck! As Im typing from heaven I didnt knew that. Whatever that has to do with anything? If you live in the mud do you HAVE to love it and get so used to it that you really dont care to try and live something better? Yey for you

Maybe thise shoudnt be bother me so much but the word naive is starting to get on my nerves I would surely kill if I have to If someone trys to hurt someone I love, I would surely rip him off to pieces. But would I said it was something good? Hell no! I would have done something NECESARY Something to survive, Wich is not the same.

The following example is disgusting, dark and unethical Be aware: A child in the middle of nowhere is starving to death He is freezing he is tired He is alone, with his little sister. She is also dying She is smaller than he is He is stronger, and he is dying He may kill her and eat her so he doesnt dies. It is possible, for in those extreme situations, we dont think Instincs take control. Would I by any means judge him? Would I say he is evil for what he has done. No. Was it okey what he did? No, it wasnt It was something grown out of necesity.

I have strong opinions about war and those sort of things considering everything thats happening right now but...

War is always bad Necesary but never good.

Freedom, of whom? Your freedom, indeed- From whom were you trying to be free? And in what land? America wasnt unhabitated back in those days. You fought for freedom, but others fought as well. And they lost. They were killed, become extint and who can tell their side of the story? Your freedom cost others theirs And their lives. It was good, of course. For you. Tell me now, the other side of it. The side were you were the Conqueror.

"Tell that to a World War II veteran. To really bring this sort of on topic, Douglas Bader in "M.I.A." (real person too, btw), was he wrong and unethical to shoot down those Nazis who were bombing London? Not in the slightest."

World War II veteran, aha, of what nation? An england veteran will surely tell me one story, and a german one would absolutly tell me another one. You do know that a soldier only follows commands, dont you? From whoever they are coming from? Thats what a soldier is taught to do I would LOVE to ask a similar question to their orphan childrens and to their widows and ask what they think. They would surely tell me the same thing an england´s soldier orphan would tell me. "fuck and kill the other side!"

If WWII England veteran was born in germany, he would have fought in the nazies army. Maybe he was a good guy, lied to, send to fight a war under the idea he was helping his country, beeing with the firm notion that he was a hero. Was it allright to kill a hero? No. Was that "hero" in the wrong side fighting for the wrong cause? Yes. Was his death necesary? Yes.

If "the good side" thinks thats GOOD and ETHICAL to kill and destroy the other side, then sadly is on the same level of perversity He just won and got to tell his side of the story.

War always causes pain and misery Either to one or the other side And something that causes pain and death cannot be "good and ethical"

There may be some shades of gray, for I just come to understand that killing in wars and killing a Murderer who is trying to kill your family is very different.

But whatever What makes something good and what makes it bad? Based on what? Based on your religion, culture and view of the world you will tell But that doesnt make me idealistic or naive. I would if I tell you NOT to kill ANYONE under no circunstances. But the word NECESITY is the key.

Demona and Goliath are a perfect example of thise. They have been discussin thise sort of topic several times trough out their encounters.

Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

The world has never been simply a black & white situation. As long as there are people that will hate you because of how you dress, how long your hair is, the color of your skin, your religion, your sexual preference, your political views or just the part of the world you were born - there will always be a reason to defend..and yes - kill or be killed. How I wish the world wasn't that way-but it is. There are a lot of people who have forgotten that freedom we have was fought for, and that you can simply negotiate your way out of any situation - but the world doesn't work that way. Some things you have to fight for, and it's extremely naive to think otherwise.
Wingless

Adamrulz recently put up a review on #6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2aDn_1EcsI
Antiyonder

What society is that? Because I live on Earth, where a lot of people find themselves in life or death struggles every single day.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." - The Princess Bride

Matt - <but there are a few black and white issues.> Yea. I find there are several people who have trouble admitting there are some absolutes. I can think of a few absolute statements: Human eyes can see only a portion of the entire spectrum of light. Those kind of statements are the 1st ones off the top of my head that are always true. Aside from the limited range of provable scientific facts, there are few absolutes.

Last weekend, www.tv-links.co.uk was shut down. What was it? A place where you could find links to watch all kinds of content for free. While I was searching for a replacement, I ran across a site owned by Disney where one could some of of the pilot episodes of Gargoyles for free. Ooops.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Hello all.
Happy Hunter's Moon. Having my annual gargoyles marathon. Here is So Cal because of the fires, the moon does have a sanguine aspect tonight. I just thought I'd give a shout to my comrades in the fandom. Have a good weekend and a thrilling Halloween

Taleweaver - [rfootman1 at earthlink dot net]

Demon@> No one is saying that you should be proud of death, but sometimes it is the only way.
Antiyonder

DPH> "Consider this statement: There are no absolutes. If that statement is true, then it is an absolute. If that statement is an absolute, then its premise is false. Therefore the logical statement is there is at least one absolute."

-I am well aware of that. I actually thought of that statement after I posted my last post, but figured I was clear enough so didn't bother double posting. I guess not.
When I said "world of absolutes", I meant where EVERYTHING is black and white. I don't think everything is black and white, I don't think even most things are black and white. Most things are a shade of gray... but there are a few black and white issues. Finding those is pretty rare though, I can't even think of a good example right now.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

"Spoken just like an idealistic young person who's never experienced a life or death, kill or be killed situation"
perhaps, but I grow up in a society were life is always the priority and in case it ends, by any means or causes, its something to be cried over, something to be grief, not to be proud off.

Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

TODD >> That's kind of you, thank you.

Just to be clear, there's two posts from me in a row, it's the second one that's about the comic. The first post is a question that I still want to keep.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"Open the door, Fang! Protect the weak, Fang! Oh Fang this! Oh Fang that!" - Fang

Guys, sometimes it is necesary, sometimes it can be justify but its never allright. A person who kills defending themselves and others has done something necesary I wont blame or judge any persone that HAS to kill other person. But there is a HUGE difference between something necesary and something that is allright.
Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

VAEVICTIS - I'll have to see if I already approved it or not. If I haven't, then (if you're still willing) I'll drop it.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Demona@ - <but killing a person is ALWAYS wrong and unethical.> Really? Pretend there's a guy with a bomb strapped to his body and the bomb is strong enough to kill everybody within 100 feet. If he sees you trying to approach, he will set off the bomb so that there is no way to knock him unconscious. Under that circumstance, it better be right to kill him to save lives.

Matt - <we really can't live in a world of absolutes.> Umm. Consider this statement: There are no absolutes. If that statement is true, then it is an absolute. If that statement is an absolute, then its premise is false. Therefore the logical statement is there is at least one absolute.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Sara> Hi, welcome to the room. As far as Lex is concerned, in my mind the closest he has ever come to crossing a line was in regards to the Pack. But even then, he managed to get his priorities straight in time.
Asatira

It's me, Antiyonder.

Ignore this comment, I just need to type without using my name so my info won't be saved in the library computer.

Anonymous

Vaevictis Asmadi> As long as you didn't mention it frequently then I don't think Greg will be bother by it. He didn't seem to mind with my review.
Antiyonder

Todd, are you willing to do me a favor? I had posted a comment about the error in #6 to Ask Greg (just saying it wasn't Greg's fault) but he's repeatedly said we should all shut up about it (but after I had posted it). I'm wondering if you could please delete it for me, if that isn't too much trouble for you?

It is http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10011

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

"...killing a person is ALWAYS wrong and unethical."

Eeeeeeeeh, no comment.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

"...killing a person is ALWAYS wrong and unethical."

Spoken just like an idealistic young person who's never experienced a life or death, kill or be killed situation.

245 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." - The Princess Bride

It isn't necessarily a wrong statement, but it is an opinion.

In any case, Lexington is a warrior. He grew up in medieval Scotland, and apparently Wyvern was invaded more than once before the end. He did not grow up with modern ideas about fighting and death.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Okay, I just had a thought.

The Illuminati contacted the Canmore trio before "Hunter's Moon" seeking an alliance, we know Jason turned them down. Obviously, John Castaway is now a member, so I figure his inclusion must be recent.

Greg has said in the past the Canmores and Illuminati were aware of each other and there was a contact. Greg has also said that Fiona Canmore is still alive and well at the age of 107.

Anyone else think Fiona is a member of the Illuminati, has access to the rejuvenation drugs, and she was the contact?

Greg Bishansky

"...killing a person is ALWAYS wrong and unethical."

It's arguments like this that show that we really can't live in a world of absolutes.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Demon@> Tell that to a World War II veteran. To really bring this sort of on topic, Douglas Bader in "M.I.A." (real person too, btw), was he wrong and unethical to shoot down those Nazis who were bombing London? Not in the slightest.
Greg Bishansky

Damn it, that was me
Demon@

"Lex did nothing wrong, dark, nightmarish, or even unethical."
Humm...it doesnt matter why you did it, but killing a person is ALWAYS wrong and unethical. It could be justify, but that doesnt mean its allright to kill anything

Anonymous

SARA R.> Okay, I will admit, I disagree with your assessment. They were in a battle, a kill or be killed situation. Regardless of whether or not it was a robot, Lex had a gun in his hand and saw an enemy attacking Goliath. In any situation like that, you better believe it's shoot first, ask questions later.

Lex did nothing wrong, dark, nightmarish, or even unethical.

Greg Bishansky

It was more that he fired the gun at Coyote in such a way that it would have killed a living person, and I couldn't quite figure out if he saw the exposed robot face or not before that.

Evil was a strong word to use, though I only meant it for nightmare-Lex in Future Tense, where everything was pushed to extremes. I wouldn't call Brentwood 'bad' just yet, he's just made a poor choice so far, but it's still an interesting reflection of Puck's nightmare.

I love that there is all that complexity to the characters. Makes rewatching the series after having not seen it in years very satisfying. Lex was always my favorite character, so it's great to see the depth he's given.

Thanks for the kind words on my pic.

Sara R. - [Artemis21_23 at hotmail dot com]

Sara R.> Welcome! Since nobody offered, have a cookie! *Holds out Tray* I like the Mint Oreo's, myself.

Hi, all! I have been battleing Bronchitis for the last week... I am sick as a dog... :( but getting better... figures it would happen a WEEK before I go to Walt Disney World...

But, when was BAD GUYS #1 supposed to be out?

Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
For California... Let there be rain...

Kudos on the art. It's fun. Thats the first fan-art I've seen incorporating Season 3 material.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Welcome to the CR Sara! And that is an excellent piece of art. Nice facial expressions.

I myself don't think Lex has ever come close to any edge. I don't think handling a gun is any sign of corruption as such. And if Brentwood is corrupt, I don't believe it reflects anything on Lex (though Lex thinks so!) because I can't believe that goodness or wickedness is determined by genes. Such things may be influenced by genetics, but I'm firmly on the side of this being a matter of nurture and personal choices.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Sara R.> There may have been other cases, but I don't think they've ever been that trusting of firearms, especially after Broadway's mishap with Elisa's gun.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Sara R> I don't know if doing a few questionable deeds will corrupt Lex. GregB described this on their morality: "They are heroes, there's a lot to admire in each and every one of them. But, they're not saints. Which is fine, they're more interesting this way... if I wanted a group of pure goodie goods, I'd read a Silver Age Justice League of America comic book."
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

EvilLex from Future Tense *manifested* in Gargoyle's reality - Sorry there.
Sara R. - [Artemis21_23 at hotmail dot com]

Hello! I am a newbie who comes with fanart and questions.

First the fan art: http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/Bonnieslasher/gargthailog.jpg

I'm rather liking the group of villains developing in the comics, heh.

And my question, related to Lexington and Brentwood. So Brentwood is how EvilLex from Future Tense in Gargoyle's reality, but is he also revealing a part of Lex that he'd rather keep under wraps? I've recently started re watching the show, and he's shocked me in a few places. In 'Leader of the Pack' did he think he was shooting a person, not a robot? And when have any of the other good gargoyles wielded a gun? The only other example I can think of is when Goliath used one to blast the rest of a shipment of guns. It is interesting to see how close Lex came to going over the edge before he caught himself.

This seemed like a question to ask other fans rather than Greg, since it relates to stuff already in the show.

Sara R. - [Artemis21_23 at hotmail dot com]

Today (or rather tonight) is the Hunter's Moon - and, by coincidence, the great "Hunter's Moon" confrontation at St. Damien's Cathedral also took place on this date (though in 1996).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Demonskrye "Another things about playing older video games is that you realize how much less responsive the controls were a lot of the time. The newer stuff spoils us with its tight controls. Still, I do enjoy going back to some of the old school platformers of my youth."

The tight controls is one argument, but tight controls do absolutely nothing for turn based RPGS which were also alot harder back in the NES and SNES era. I found myself struggling when I played Final Fantasy 4 again a few years ago.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

Nothing Gargoyles related. Just thought this was funny as a mix up of Britney Spears and Liam Sullivan's Kelly. Yes, I know I havent really made any real comments in a while.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3r088DwXGBE

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Video games are my cocaine!

HOE: the Shari scenario reminds me of something I think Greg W said in his rambles .. "Thailog's already outsmarted Xanatos,Macbeth and Demona who's left to be outsmarted?"

then Elisa's "what goes around comes around" comes into play here as well.

Starlioness

***SPOILER****
Actually, my favorite part of #6 was the beginning and ending. Wasn't overly crazy about the middle. I especially liked the glimpse at the direction Thailog and Shari's business relationship seems to be going. Her messing with him at the end was a good touch.

I read someone's review where they said it looks like Thailog might be getting set up for something. I like this idea. I mean, he's at the bottom rung, and he has a nine as his assistant. There has to be more to that. But I also like the idea of characters who pride themselves on control getting played. It's one of the reasons I love the episode "Double Jeopardy."

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

Gorebash - Just out of curiosity, when does the submission feature to Ask Greg plan on being closed again? I'm not rushing it; I'm just curious.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Oh, yeah, I loved the "mistake" in his review. It went well with the issue and was rather funny. Sad he didn't like it that much, but it's his opinion. We still get advertising.

I put in my order for the trade, and told my comic store to be aware of the reprint. I'll see how it goes when it comes in.

Asatira

He is quite clever; I just wish he wasn't so dry. He has no inflection in his voice whatsoever. I probably couldn't do any better and I don't like the sound of my own voice when I listen to it, but I've been told that I have a sexy phone voice. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Anthony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Yeah, it was pretty funny how his review mimicked the comic itself with the beat up the bear now and later thing. Hilarious. You have to give him credit for being so clever.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Warcrafter> My favorite part(s) of his review is when he was beating up the bear and his words didn't match with what was actually going on. Haha!
I like how he mentioned Greg X's name. Here, let me help you pick up that name you dropped. Seriously, thanks Greg for setting him straight since he didn't seem to be the most well informed fan/reviewer.
I also loved where he mentioned that during a part of Coldstone's life, he is the father/mother/uncle of Gabriel. Awesome.

Anthony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Christine> I imagine there were. Me, I was all 'I knew it'.

Off-topic, did you get my email?

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

<< And I'm sure their were at least a handful of fanfic authors who went "D'oh!" when Greg W. revealed Lex's sexuality. >>

Then there were the ones that went, "Huh," and kept right on trotting down our own little roads to hell without breaking stride :)

Christine - [christine at sabledrake dot com]

****Water drips from the ceiling, forming a puddle on the floor. When the last drop finally falls into the puddle, the water shifts and morphs into the familiar figure of Blaise.**** Hi, all! Long time, no see. I've been a bit out of the loop since I wasn't able to lay my mitts on a copy of Issue #6 until today (and the wildfires along the California coast have had a rather sobering effect on day-to-day living at the moment). But, well, I'm finally able to add my two cents on the comic.

GARGOYLES ISSUE #6> I was unable to afford it until Saturday the 13th, by which time it had sold out of my local store. They assured me that they would have more by Tuesday the 16th. In the interim, I checked out "Ask Greg" and discovered the "page-16-art-for-12" error. In a way this was a blessing in disguise as it caused me to modify my plans--instead of buying two issues, I would now buy one copy of the misprint and then purchase two corrected copies when they came out.
Of course, possibly because they WERE going back to the printers on this, my comic shop didn't get new issues on the 16th...or at any other time of the following week. They wound up overnighting a copy (the last one) from their Valley Branch because they're cool like that. So now I'm able to catch up with everyone (after reading the entire previous two weeks worth of "Ask Greg" and the Comment Room).

*******************SPOILERES! SPOILERS!****************

Since I only read it once before sealing it away to keep as mint condition as possible, I took careful notes on a page by page basis (yes, I am a grade-A nerd)...as a result, this post will pretty much read that way, too.
--I LOVED the first page of Angela. She looks good there. I just wish Purcell were more consistent with her. Overall, I liked his work--I found it a solid art style. However, he seems to have difficulty when it comes to Angela's face. The middle of the three horizontal panels on page 2 looks especially weird; more like the rictus grin of a corpse. I thought the middle panel on page 14 looked a bit off, too. It's a pity, because I rather enjoyed the rest of it.
--I love Lex's rather bitter "--all except Brentwood" in response to Angela's statement that "the clones have chosen good over evil." You can tell he's still upset by that.
--Nice to know Maggie's all right and Goliath is healing. Also we receive confirmation that their days of just hiding out in the castle are now over. Of course, this new development will undoubtedly bring its own problems.
--Brooklyn's still not too comfortable around the lovebirds. Did anyone else notice that while she was holding hands with Broadway she had her other hand on Brooklyn's shoulder? No wonder he took off in such a hurry.
--I laughed out loud at page 3. Behold: "Alexander (Thailog) the Great!" Okay, okay, so Alexander wasn't a Roman, but COME ON! It's too perfect! I loved the ice swan and Thailog's "leisure attire" (white and red seems to be his favorite motif). And Shari feeding him grapes…I guess he figures if he's got to have a #9 as his "Executive Assistant" he might as well enjoy it.
-A lot of speculation in the Comment Room as to Shari's possible background. I have to admit, the idea of her having some connection to Scheherazade never crossed my mind, but the arguments have been quite...compelling.
--The skiff showing up in the giant laundry tub would be the second time I laughed out loud. I mean seriously, how else do you beat a swimming pool for a unique body of water? I loved Elisa's asking to skip this particular adventure and see if Avalon needed them someplace else…like Hawaii. The cut to her "Guess not" was a great follow-up.
--The Gargoyles mistaken for Yeti is kind of funny, though I agree with Master Dawa; Sangpo should not be so hasty in his actions or judgments. Dawa gets some of the best lines, of course, but since others have already noted them, I shall not repeat them. Suffice to say, he has been presented as an interesting character and I look forward to seeing more of him.
--I loved the top panel of page 7, specifically, Goliath carrying Elisa. Don't ask me why, it just struck me.
--"Jalapena"...of course. Should I really be surprised?
--Cloak or no cloak, I figured that was Coldstone.
--The page 12 mistake was pretty obvious, especially the first and last panels. Having seen the REAL page 12, thanks to the efforts of Greg, Greg and SLG, I have to say I really like Coldstone's expression in the last panel. I don't remember when I've ever seen him look that happy.
--I really liked the "pan in" on Coldstone's red eye for the quickie back-story on the Cold Trio. It especially manages to definitively explain what Coldstone is, and it sets up Coldsteel for his later appearance. "Unspeakably evil," eh? Interesting.
--Oddly enough, I suspected Coldstone was faking his possession from the beginning. In the past, his switches between personalities have always been a little more...well, obvious. Here it happened too quickly. There were some times, however, when he made me doubt. That one line, "I wonder if in this century human necks make the same noise when they snap" was especially chilling.
--Angela broke his arm-cannon! I wonder when and how he fixed it. Also, he has one HECK of a stun attack. Haven't seen him use that one before. It is a little odd for it to be coming out of his eye (at least, that's what it looks like), but it's still visually impressive.
--Coldstone's actually quite poignant in this last bit on page 21. I like his sad expression and the close-up of Angela when Coldstone mentions his children's safety (which to me reinforces the idea of "Rookery Parentage"). On that note, I'm a bit surprised by how quickly and easily Gabriel's parentage was revealed.
--They wake up on the shores of Shambalah (leaving me with a Three Dog Night song stuck in my head) and then Shari (and through her, Greg) cuts us off. DAMMIT! And just how the heck does she know this story anyway?
--Thailog enjoys a cup of wine and a maniacal laugh. Strange how he refers to Coldstone as his "uncle." Just another indicator of how Thailog doesn't really think like a gargoyle, I guess. Then Shari has to tease him (and us) with a few tantalizing hints leaving Thailog in a towering rage as he turns to stone. Why do I have an image of a cat sitting just outside the reach of a dog's chain? Illuminatus or not, she better not test the strength of that chain too much.
--I, too, am intrigued that Thailog's clothes did not turn to stone with him. I guess he really is more at home in battle armor.
--Hey, we finally see the Scarab Corporation's name (or at least most of it) in a canon story!
--This was my (censored) reaction to Coldsteel's appearance in the final page: "HOLY FREAKING SHOOT!" Oh, Xanatos is up to something. Gotta say, though, he doesn't look to happy to see Coldsteel.

Overall: Is it the highpoint of the last three comics? Well, maybe not. But it did fill in a bit of a story we've only heard about for a decade and whetted my appetite for the next story arc. You go, Greg!

***************END SPOILERS! END SPOILERS!************

Well, there, that's all I have at the moment. Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise takes a running dive into a shadow and vanishes.****

Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"

Ntripy> No, that picture is a larger version the last panel on page 25 of Gargoyles #6.
Tony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

#9 cover?

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0710/24/gargoyles9.htm

Ntripy

Fires> As far as I know, only one person has died, but 70ish have been injured.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

VA> Our mileage may differ, and I know the whole world is against me, but TPM doesn't get the credit that it should mostly because of f'in Jar Jar.

GB> Thanks, I was wondering the explanation behind it. Magic is the obviously answer that alluded me.

Tony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Thanks for posting the tagline to #9, Bishansky! (I suppose we should have known that Greg Weisman wouldn't be able to resist the title "Rock of Ages" for the final issue of that trilogy/tryptych.) I'm still looking forward to #7-#9, particularly since I believe that the Rock in question is most likely the Stone of Destiny. (It would fit in with the reported connections to Cuchulain, Merlin, and Macbeth, and with the Stone's real-life return to Scotland in late 1996, just the right time for that adventure in the internal chronology of "Gargoyles".)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Thanks, Battle Beast. Like Mochi, I'm currently in SoCal (though I'm merely in LA). Nevertheless, the sky's been a murky grey, and if you're outside long enough you can smell the smoke.

I have some family friends who DO live in the San Diego area, and according to them, they were ready to pack when the winds shifted and the fires moved out of their home's direction.

I myself was able to see the fires to the north of Los Angeles, the Malibu one specifically. My school's in no danger at all, but there's definitely a depressing mood in the air.

Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Tony >> OK I was talking about my reaction to Episode 1. Your milage may differ.

Fires >> I really hope nobody has died. There have been so many fires the last decade in the West of North America. And now the Southeast is under drought, too.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Shut!! I didnt knew about the fires up there. Hope its solved soon
Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

Oh I wasnt talking about Rebel I do understand were she/he is heading. I was talking about the bigots that Demonskye was talking about Or the people who gets infuriated by the notion of a different approach of certain characters in other foruns, notes, interviews etc etc,
Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

Just to let everyone know, the wildfires were pretty bad the last couple of days. I live in San Diego and the sky was literally dark orange from Sunday up until now. The smoke gave me a headache and I've been indoors since the fires began. News reports are saying over half a million people have been evacuated and many homes have been destroyed or damaged throughout southern California. There was a fire that started on Monday at least 2 -3 miles from where I live. Fortunately that was contained rather quickly. I wish could say the same for the other fires that are still burning. Most of the fires in San Diego started in rural areas and have spread into residential areas. One fire has almost reached the coast, which is very rare to happen. The wind conditions are finally favorable to battle the fires from the air. Looting has been reported and two people have been arrested for that so far.

It's going to be a little while before all the fires are contained... :(

The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>TT.TT)> Can't leave home because of the fires...

I hope everyone out in California is OK. Thinking of you. :)
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
Let there be rain...

Tini> Magic... there was no device, there was no cyberspace. It was all Puck playing with Goliath's head.
Greg Bishansky

Gargoyles #9> Sounds good.

Future Tense> What's the name of the device that transfers the Gargoyles (minds?) to Xanatos's Cyberspace?

Anthony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

GARGOYLES #9
by Greg Weisman & David Hedgecock
CLAN BUILDING: Chapter 9, "Rock of Ages" - David Xanatos makes his final play for the Rock - in broad daylight when the gargoyles sleep as stone! But will the Illuminati be pleased with the end result? And what's this obsession over Fox's new shoes?
24pgs, FC ................................................... $3.95


Excellent. It sounds like this story will finally, finally put to rest the wussified, out of character depiction Xanatos received in "The Goliath Chronicles", and he has continued to receive in 99% of the fanfiction he has appeared in. Looking forward to it, Xanatos has always been one of my favorites.

As for Fox's shoes? She's a woman, a very rich woman. They love shoes. ;)

Greg Bishansky

I liked Episode 1.
Anthony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

I view myself as a guest, invited to view an author's vision. I don't see myself having any sense of "ownership" of the things I love. Anymore than I could "own" the things in the real world that I love.

But there is perhaps a fuzzy line across which you may feel that an author's decision was just bad, and you want to pretend it isn't canon and you never, ever heard it. For example, pretty much all of Star Wars Episode I. Rebel said that isn't what she thinks about gay characters, though.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Demonskrye: I do agree in most of what you have said, but legal ownership wasnt exactly were I was pointing at. I like to writte a lot and Im working in a novel of my own (in hopes of relizing it someday) and those who also writte, or paint and draw will probably agree with me in that the characters are part of us, they are our babies. You need to BE that character sometimes, to become who and what they are to give them life while writting about them. Its a more emotional, personal ownership. I woudnt like to have other person to tell me what to do with my babies.
I didnt like Long way to morning. Demona performance was, in my personal opinion, totally OUT of character. But thats the character created by my own personal view. Greg knows her better than I do, though and I wont tell Greg how to work on his characters. It upsets me, allright, But thats just the way she trully is.
When an author shows his/her work, normally, the main priority is to share your creation, to show others your little and very personal world. You can borrow the idea and make changes if you would like,mold the character into your own personal view (like Demona again, For some she is a heartless bith, for others she is a poor victim of society and for others, she is a little of both) thats what fincs are for, but to be after the creatir telling them what to do with the original is, in my opinion, a bit in the prepotent and arrogant side of the line

Demon@
"Humans are for earth what cancer is for humans" Demona "mootttheer" Angela

Being a longtime Tolkien fan, I guess I've long ago gotten used to finding out additional things about characters well after I had formed my own guesses/opinions about them. Such revelations may be surprising but nothing to be upset about.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

On Dumbledore: My opinion is essentially that of the second option on the latest Mugglenet poll "Interesting. Moving On . . . " He's Dumbleodore and I'll always love the guy for what he did to Fudge in Book V (amoing other things).

Greatest NES Moment: I am and have always been terrible at video games, having only thoroughly beaten two games in my life. The second was the PS1 game, "Crash Bandicoot's CTR" and the first was that NES 'Tiny Toons Adventure Theme Park Game' (don't remember the actual name).

In other news, according to the Gargoyles Fan Website, today is the 13th anniversary of the first airing of "Awakening, Part I," which begs the question:

What were you doing October 24th, 1994?? :P

Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

I think that the issue isn't homosexuality, but surprise revelations about the characters (particularly, in Dumbledore's case, surprise revelations that come out after the series is over).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Ozzie Arcane> Another things about playing older video games is that you realize how much less responsive the controls were a lot of the time. The newer stuff spoils us with its tight controls. Still, I do enjoy going back to some of the old school platformers of my youth.

Demon@> Fans don't "own" characters in the legal sense, but they certainly take on a kind of partial ownership of them. Not to get all mystical here, but fiction is a kind of pact between the creator and he reader/viewer/listener/whatever. The creator provides the characters and the story. You, recieving that story, bring it to life, suspend your disbelief, fill in the gaps, and invest yourself in it emotionally. You put yourself into the story to make it come alive for you and thus, your experience of it is different from anyone else's. And, barring anyone who is actually just bigoted, that's why people are taken aback by Rowling revealing that Dumbledore is gay or by Greg W. revealing that Lex is gay: because it may conflict with the view of the character that they had created with the info they had. It's not necessarily a permanent state of mind; people will generally accept it and move on at some point. But it can be understandably upsetting at first.

Demonskrye

Heck, I'm surprised no one could tell Tinky Winky was gay. =P
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society

Most people that gets enraged by those kind of things do not understand that the characters are not theirs. The authors are free of making a character gay, or not as much as they can make a character evil or good, smart or fool or whatever characteristic that makes them what they are. You may not like some character for thise or that thing. And thats just normal. But getting upset for it as I have seen in many forums, geez, whatever for?
If you dont like it, grumble a bit and live with it- Its not like a personal insult or something.

Demon@
om

J.K. Rowling is allowed to say whatever she wants about her books now that she's done with them, just like Anne Rice is free to offer the claim that her "Sleeping Beauty" trilogy was really Christian allegory, not naughty kink. :P

248 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Internets is serious business." - Anonymous

I know it was pretty sudden, but making Lex gay didn't strike me a trying to shove a lifestyle down ones throat.

On that note, Tom Defalco implied in his earlier issues of Spider-Girl that Felicia Hardy/The Black Cat is gay (but then again, it's merely an alternate continumm). We see her partner in #47 of the first series, and it is kept to a minimum.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

On Dumbledore and Lex. I think Joss Whedon said it best

"I realize that this has shocked a lot of people, and I've made a mistake by trying to shove this lifestyle--which is embraced by, maybe, at most, 10 percent of Americans--down people's throats. So I'm going to take it back, and from now on, Willow will no longer be a Jew."
- Joss Whedon

Greg Bishansky

NES Topic: My greatest NES accomplishment had to be beating the final boss in Final Fantasy 1 without being hit once. Some reason the Hold spell worked on him and it stuck on him for the whole fight, in other words he couldn't do anything. None of my friends have ever managed to reproduce this occurance.

Replaying old NES games on the Virtual Console, I had forgotten how hard these games were. My skills have been reduced to nothing from how easy games are nowadays. Back then you were lucky if you ever beat a game, let alone in one sitting.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

Demonskyre> "And I'm sure their were at least a handful of fanfic authors who went "D'oh!" when Greg W. revealed Lex's sexuality."

And then there were those of us who were convinced Lex was gay long before Greg finally confirmed it. As I like to say, I knew Lex was gay before I knew I was. Frankly, I understand why Lex's sexuality won't ever be made a blatant issue of, but I'm glad Greg and the hardcore fans will know whats really going on. I would've been dissapointed if Greg had felt Lex was gay but gave him a female mate just for appearences and political correctness. If/when Lex finds his mate it won't be obvious unless you know what to look for. "Lex's best friend" works best for me.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

I don't know. The biggest NES letdown for me was the ending to "Ghosts and Goblins." You had to finish it twice, could only take two hits before dying, and what you got was:

"Congraturation! This story is happy end. Thank you! Being the wise and couragour knight that you are, you feel strongth welling. Inside your body. Return to starting point. Challenge again!"

I also refused to play the Ninja Gaiden games, since those games were specifically designed to torture people. A few years ago, I tried getting through "The Dark Sword of Chaos" on an emulator, and after hurling many colorful obscenities at the screen, realized why I didn't play it on the original console.

When's the nerd gonna review Ninja Gaiden? I should e-mail him.

Also, I'm shocked that no one has mentioned the Konami code yet. For shame, people! Unless I missed it.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

I think Demonskyre's the only one that gets it.

As I said before (and I guess I'll repeat it again since not everyone seems completely able to read) I have NO problem with gay characters.

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

To be fair, I don't think anyone here is against Dumbledore or any other fictional character being gay because they think it's wrong or icky or whatever. My impression is that it's more the somewhat disconcerting feeling of envisioning a character one way and then finding out that your view of the character isn't correct. It's not a feeling I share in this case, but I have been there, certainly. And I'm sure their were at least a handful of fanfic authors who went "D'oh!" when Greg W. revealed Lex's sexuality.
Demonskrye

Dumbledore topic>
When Greg Weisman announced that Lex was gay, was everyone happy? No.
When J.K. Rowling announced that Dumbledore was gay, was everyone happy? No.

Solution: Get over it. Create your own story with your own characters and make them all heterosexual.

NES topic>
My first biggest accomplishment was getting to the machine gun guy in Double Dragon. I used the Game Genie to give me 9 lives instead of the 3 you start with and after much effort and many tries, I eventually made it to him. Unfortunately, I didn't beat him and I cheated, but it felt good to get that far. I wish I could have beat him and got a chance to fight my brother. (Double Dragon 2 was much more fun with the co-op play.)

My second biggest accomplishment was winning the car in Hollywood Squares. Most times if I won the key wouldn't fit. Years later, I played it on a NES emulator (JNES) and I won the car! I even took a screenshot and have it saved somewhere on my external HDD.

Anthony Tini

Warcrafter> Cool.

Sebastian> I've beaten that game in 10 minutes.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

I think there's a few reasons why Dumbledore's orientation never made it into the books...

1. The books are from Harry's POV, and sad to say, Harry's not the brightest wizard (Godric Gryffindor came from Godric's Hollow? No way!). He took a long time to figure out that Ginny liked him, and that was something that directly affected him. That's Harry for you... good at the magic, but oh so oblivious.

2. Think back to a favorite teacher in school... now did you think about their romantic life? Did you want to? I think most young adults would rather stick fingers in both ears than hear anything about the romantic lives of their teachers and mentors, whether they be straight or gay. And again, since it's told from Harry's POV, I can't imagine that it'd be any different.

3. Harry rarely asked about Dumbledore's life pre-Headmaster, and when he did, Dumbledore usually shifted the conversation elsewhere. So by the final book, Harry knew nothing truly personal of Dumbledore, and was shocked that he'd never heard the details of his sad family life.

Kristen

I suppose I've had a few NES accomplishments. But the most recent one was Super Mario Bros. 3. After seeing the video of the 11 minute win, I tried to perfect that. I got to 15 minutes, good enough for me.
Sebastian

Our favorite cardboard gargoyle is back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2aDn_1EcsI

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Video games are my cocaine!

I never had an NES accomplishment, as I was nearly in high school by the time we got our (used) NES, and my brothers wouldn't let me play. ;P
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Hmmmm... I'd say mine was getting Super Mario Brothers down so well that I finished it 10 times in a row in a single sitting and only stopped because I got bored. Oh and I also managed to loop the score on Duck Hunt but I was cheating my butt off while doing it.
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society

Ah fudge. That was me, reliving the glory days of the NES.

My biggest NES accomplishment? Spending nearly 6 hours trying to get through all levels in 1942. At the end all it says is "congratulations"... what a let down. Beating Rygar was always something too, given it's lack of a save game or password system, it also had some of the best NES game music. The Playstation 2 revival wasn't nearly as epic.

Gorebash

JUSTIN BAILEY
------ ------

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metroid#JUSTIN_BAILEY)

Anonymous

Rebel> Re: Samus - Well, there was a cheat code in one of those games that let you see her in her underwear, so I'm not sure the boys were freaking out too much about it. ;P

Dumbledore> My feelings on this are complicated. Much as I'd like to weigh in on this, I don't think I can articulate them properly at this point.

Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Thanks Gorebash. I hadn't thought of it that way. That's a really refreshing perspective.

When I first started reading the books, none of the movies had been made, and so I was able to use my own imagination in terms of creating the characters in my head. For some strange reason, my Severus Snape bared a very close resemblance to Osama bin Laden. I can't remember precisely when I first started reading the books, but I guess it must have been when all that drama started happening between the U.S. and the eastern world. It aggravated me to no end that the Snape of the movies was so different from my imagined one (which was silly, since the early descriptions of Snape were so vague that I had no reason to think he looked that way). Eventually though, I came to like the Snape in the movies. Maybe I'll one day feel that way about this.

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

If it bothers you that much Rebel then take a look at things from another perspective. Rowling's revelations are a lot like responses from Greg in Ask Greg. They're "canon in training" (http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Category:Canon-in-training). None of these revelations have appeared in book. None of them will. What you've read in the books is all there is to Dumbledore. The Dumbledore character you've created in your head, unique to you (as is the version that anyone who reads even one book creates in their head,) isn't gay. For all we know 10 years from now she'll change her mind about it all. So don't bother so much about it. It carries little more weight than if some random person off the street said the same thing.
Gorebash

To be fair to Rowling, she revealed that piece of information after someone asked her directly about Dumbledore's love-life. She didn't come up with it out of the blue. (And it *was* connected with his unfortunate friendship with Grindelwald, helping to explain why he didn't see through the man earlier.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Wouldn't the spoilers be a bad thing if there were more books on the way?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

Dumbledore> I haven't yet read all of the Harry Potter books, or even seen all the movies, so I'm no expert on this. But from what I've read about this revelation, it does seem to me like an honest case of an author revealing something that just didn't come up in the books. I admit, I was a little confused too about why Rowling was choosing to reveal this now when I first heard about it. But it sounds like it's just something that came up in dicussion with fans that just hadn't been revealed in the books. Sadly, I don't think our society is at te point yet where putting an openly gay character into a book ostensibly aimed at children is acceptable. I'm actually very concerned about whether Lex's relationship with his mate will ever be addressed in the direct, mature way we've come to expect from the series or if anyone not in on what's really going on will just see this new character as "Lex's best friend". Yes, it would have been cool if Rowling had addressed the idea more directly before the series ended, and with her power, she might have been able to pull it off. But on the other hand, the fact that Dumbledore is gay is not necessarily a major facet of his character. Look through the books and I'm sure you'll find any number of characters who go through the series without ever showing any signs of a romantic life and we don't take any notice of it one way or the other. But now that we know Dumbledore is gay, some people wonder why it isn't made blatantly obvious in the books. Being gay may be part of who Dumbledore is, but it's not his entire identity. And as much as this series has appealed to all ages, it is both written towards kids and told from the perspective of kids. And however close they may have been, I sincerely doubt Dumbledore would ever feel inclined to talk with Harry about his love life.
Demonskrye

I don't really feel like talking about this anymore. The more I discuss it, the angrier it makes me. I respect all of your opinions, but I still think it was wrong for J.K. to do that to her readers...well, readers like me anyway, for whom sexual orientation is an important aspect of someone's character.

This must have been what young boys felt like when they first discovered Samus Aran was a girl...

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

Now, what I find outrageous is that Rowling actually had the nerve to put spoilers in the last book:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/final_harry_potter_book

How dare she!

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"You are not my typewriter, but you could be my demon moving forward through flaming doors." -Wilco ("War on War")

Is that William Shatner playing the Gargoyle? :p
Aldrius
"This gives me an idea... Propaganda! Used correctly it can be as deadly as any weapon in my arsenal..."

hello, nothing really related to the topics, just thought I should post this Gargoyles video from the 1972 movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Kz6G8174w

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Video games are my cocaine!

Rebel, it seems to me you're jumping to extremely uncharitable conclusions. You're assuming JKR did this just because it's trendy. Who knows? Maybe you're right. But maybe you're not. Maybe it's something that to her is both intrinsic to the character and completely immaterial to the plot from Harry's POV (since the story was almost entirely written in non-omniscent third person from Harry's point of view). I mean why assume the worst of a writer, whom you must have once respected (since you state you've now lost respect for her), when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation that doesn't fit your cynical interpretation?

To me, the thing that seems trendy is to find an excuse -- any excuse -- to take folks down a peg.

(And by the way, as supportive as you think you are... someday including a gay character will no longer be under threat of the trendy accusation, because it will simply be commonplace. After all, how do we get from trendy to commonplace... except by inclusion, despite the naysayers -- whatever their reason for naysaying?)

L.T. Williams

SLG just did an update on their release schedule. They mentioned Gargoyles: Volume 1 coming out in December, Bad Guys #1 coming out in November, Gargoyles #6 coming out in November, but not mention of Gargoyles issue #7 or Bad Guys issue #2.
Which is better for release in December: the 1st Gargoyles comic compilation or issue #7? I'm thinking the compilation would be better, especially if it can be done released by December 19, (Christmas is a Tuesday this year).

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

"No staying power eh? What about Unversial devoting a ton of acres and allowing its Lost Continent area if Islands of Adventure to be a permanent Harry Potter land? HP will be here forever. I really don't see it going away."

Hehe. I heard about that a while back, and my first thought was that in less than 10 or 15 years it would prove to be a commercial flop. I could be wrong though.

"And no, an author is never finished telling their story. What a sad world we would live in if an author was not allowed to continue to tell their fans their other ideas, especially since she plans not to continue it in book form. At least she can continue to feed the imaginations of millions of fans with the ideas she will never put on paper."

I suppose. Though with this particular idea, since she seemed to have had it for quite some time, I don't see why she couldn't have said something much earlier. I guess that would have ruined the dramatic effect though. Meh.

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

No staying power eh? What about Unversial devoting a ton of acres and allowing its Lost Continent area if Islands of Adventure to be a permanent Harry Potter land? HP will be here forever. I really don't see it going away.

And no, an author is never finished telling their story. What a sad world we would live in if an author was not allowed to continue to tell their fans their other ideas, especially since she plans not to continue it in book form. At least she can continue to feed the imaginations of millions of fans with the ideas she will never put on paper.

Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.

"How can it be the "in" thing and yet fresh and different at the same time? That's like emos and goths who dress that way to be "different", yet they look like all the other emo and goths."


Precisely.


Like I said, I'm not saying she shouldn't have gay characters. What I am saying is, if you're gonna have a gay character, have the balls to actually make them gay from early on, and to state that. Scholastic tolerated all sorts of horrible things in those books...murders, allusions to extreme racism and KKK type behavior, quasi-abusive stepparents, and all sorts of things. Somehow, I don't think one gay guy would have bothered them. If J.K. wanted Dumbledore to be gay, she should have made that more clear from the beginning, or not at all.

Also, the difference between the Potter universe and the Gargoyles universe is that Rowling is supposed to be *FINISHED* telling her story...Greg got cut off in the middle of his, so it made sense for him to give information to his fans about what *would* have happened. If Scholastic had stopped making the Potter books after the third book or so, then J.K. giving a revelation about Dumbledore's sexuality would be more acceptable. Now she's just milking the public for all we're worth and trying to get more attention to a series that is rapidly becoming yesterday's news (or, it will in a few years). Harry Potter is great and all, but I seriously doubt it will have the staying power of something like...say...Star Wars.

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

Rebel, you don't make sense. How can it be the "in" thing and yet fresh and different at the same time? That's like emos and goths who dress that way to be "different", yet they look like all the other emo and goths.

Also, she did exclude the fact he is gay from the book, but she excluded a LOT that she has since revealed in interviews. She has talked more in depth about details she never revealed in the books. No different then Greg discussing many details with us that he never revealed in the TV series. He couldn't reveal them then, because of time and Disney. I seriously doubt Scholastic books would want to deal with more controversy if she did include it, as it is many schools already ban the books for the witchcraft element. Adding a gay character would only see more bannings at the biggest profit time. People who are mad feel duped, but what she is doing is no different from other authors who cram as much as they can, and then reveal more later on.

Not to mention, she had dozens of characters in the books. They were different nationalities and held different beliefs and morals. So there is a high chance of course some would also have a different sexuality, just like in real life. There are gay students and gay teachers in the world. To deny the books of having a gay character is like to deny the books of having characters of other races and beliefs. I don't see how it is joining the crowd at all. She is being realistic. With as many characters as there was in the books, there is a high probability there are some who are gay.

Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.

Looks like another person broke the Ask Greg rules: Queen of Night and writes "Well seems my last couple of questions were eaten by the question queue monster. So I'll ask them again!" I wonder if that previous deletion had something to do with multiple topics in the same post.

48 hours before I believe the submit button will be disabled and the number of unanswered questions is well under 100.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

It doesn't change my attitude about Dumbledore. He's still a great wizard and a great person...but it DOES change my attitude towards J.K. Rowling as an author. I respect her a lot less now. Somehow I seriously doubt that she made him gay simply because she was letting his character evolve. In my opinion, she was undoubtedly succumbing to what's 'in' now. Trying to be fresh and different, and blah blah blah. I mean, sure, make a character gay. But don't make him gay just for the sake of being gay and for the sake of raising eyebrows.

(And yes, perhaps she didn't decide to make him gay after all the books were already written...nonetheless, characters don't choose these things themselves. At some point, J.K. HAD to make a conscious decision...and more than likely it was something along the lines of "Ya know I think it might be interesting if I made Dumbledore gay".)

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

I second Siren's comment. All Rowling did was state it officially to the public. I mean, if you read the books, especially the last one where we actually learnd a lot about Dumbledore, it fits. Does it change my attitude about him? No.
Asatira

She didn't "just make him gay". If you read what she said she said she ALWAYS thought of Dumbledore as gay. That he was in love with Grindlewald for a long time and that is why it was so hard for him to finally battle with him and why it was tragic for him. Did she knew Dumbledore was gay from day one of writing the book? No, probably not, but I think she developed that into him of the course of the last few books.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.

To be honest I was kind of pissed that she made him gay. I have nothing against gays or against the idea of a gay character being in the Harry Potter books...but to all of a sudden make him gay like that? AFTER the series is over? That's such bull. If you're going to make someone gay make them gay from the beginning or early in the series, or not at all. I think she's just being "trendy" and trying to get attention. I can see where people would get an impression that Dumbledore *might* be gay but honestly I think it's quite a stretch. This is similar to how I feel about Lexington as well.

And don't anyone call me a homophobe either...my brother is gay as well as many of my friends and I'm very supportive. I'm just so tired of authors whipping out "the gay card". It's getting so old.

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

Just a random thought: I am sure most of you heard the news of J.K. Rowling saying Dumbledore is gay. Reaction by HP fans seems to be going well. The moment I read the article about it, I thought about Lexington.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.

Todd, that's a good hypothesis.

I don't imagine Xanatos going to Lex for technical assistance. He's highly skilled for one without formal education, but the Scarab techs would all have advanced engineering or computer science degrees.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Personally, I think that Xanatos would keep his alliance with Coldsteel a secret from the clan (including Lexington), to save himself a lot of potential trouble.

In fact, I wonder whether Xanatos is making his alliance with Coldsteel precisely to ensure that Goliath and the other gargoyles are kept in the dark about his involvement in whatever the Illuminati want him to do. If he uses his regular devices (such as the Steel Clan or a new Coyote), the clan would easily figure out that he was behind the scheme. But if the deed is carried out by a robotic gargoyle which was indeed built by Scarab, but which is inhabited by the soul of a corrupt gargoyle who was engaged in nefarious plots long before Xanatos's lifetime, it'll be harder for Goliath to trace this action back to Xanatos; Xanatos can make it look as if Iago is simply behaving like his usual self, and acting on his own.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Maybe Xanatos asks for Lex's assistance with Coldsteel... though it'd probably be easier to go to Scarab Corp about that...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

As long as its slow, how about some guesses as to how Lex will serve as a major character in 7-8.
***************
I don't think there are any real spoilers!
***************
My two guesses.
1. Road Trip: We don't know exactly where they are going, but it seems far, maybe as far Scotland. The only way I can imagine them going far distances is by plane, or helicopter. I would assume Lexington would build or some other way procure transport.

However, that isn't all that exciting for us as to Lexington's development.

So I hope it is #2: Having something to do with Brentwood(I think that is Lex's clone, don't have the comic in front of me right now). Save Delilah, he is the only interesting clone. I hope to see a Lex vs Brentwood(I think) and Thailog scene. That would be fun.

Any other guesses?

Sebastian

Hey, cool!:

"Lex will get his turn in the spotlight, as soon as issues #7-8." - Greg W.

I wonder how.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

An unusually quick Top Ten followed by an unusually slow day... go figure.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

>>Finally, this one sounds like it might have potential!
I remain sceptical. The story sounds fairly standard and simple. The designs, too, are like all the other over-stylized series so common today.

Transformers has a lot of story-telling potential, I don't think Animated will tap into that.

Anonymous

Yay! I was thinking I might have to wait until Bad Guys came before ordering #6 and #5, but I'm surprised they're reprinting this rapidly. Now looking farward to my copies.

Thanks for the news, Rebel and Greg.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Wow, that was a fast Top Ten. I was getting used to seeing it not finish until almost 5am. I just got home from the Smashing Pumpkins concert in Philly and was hoping to get in time. Oh well, maybe next week.

Greg W> Awesome news. Any idea on when they will be printed and ready for exchange?

Tony Tini - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Matt wrote: "I suppose they'll fix the title page, double page AND Scarab logo errors?"

I have seen the galleys of the issue #6 reprint, and ALL errors -- at least all that I'm aware of -- have been fixed, including all of the above, plus errors in "Etched in Stone" that were not actually errors at the time and the mistakes in the ad on the back cover.

Greg Weisman
"Uh... because my spider-sense was tingling?" -- The Spectacular Spider-Man (coming your way in March 2008)

Sorry, that was supposed to be '10th', not '1oth'.

Damn.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

1oth.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

9th!
Asatira

8th?
Knoxville

7th-lucky I hope.
Have just been informed that
Jeff Bennett
Cree Summer &
Bill Fagerbakke
will be involved with the next animated Transformers.
Finally, this one sounds like it might have potential!

Wingless

Six-o! :P
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Cinco!
Greg Bishansky

Fourth, and I owe it all to an errant circadian biorhythm
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"You are not my typewriter, but you could be my demon moving forward through flaming doors." -Wilco ("War on War")

Woot! Third!
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
GO BOSTON! Even thought I don't really folyl baseball...

Second! :D
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Homework is killing me...

first
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Video games are my cocaine!