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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 16, 2007

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that was me...I replaced my user name with the password in a fit of computer saviness. Sorry for the double post.
Sah

Leo...I thought I had registered(become a member of the boards)...and apparently I had mannaged to do something right, cause when I tried to re-become a member of the boards, it said that user name and e-mail were already in use. So I even tried to trick the server bot into sending me my password, and that was when it informed me that my account was no longer active. Alas, I am unloved by the server bot. I'm so sad...I wanted to see if anyone was traveling withing a decent click to Houston Texas....
o057be

Sah> You have to "become a member" of the message board to post. It's seperate from convention registration.

And the episode you mentioned is called "Vendettas".

Leo

Patrick...I seem to be having difficulty getting a username and password for the Gatehrings website so I can post on the boards there...I registered several days ago, and still can't post. Not sure how long it should take for registration to take place.

Harvister of Eyes. I doun't doubt you at all. I put a lot into analysing personallities, probably more so than most people due to my being autistic.

I also can't remember the eps well.....just a while ago had a flash of an ep in which Goliath got a pie in the face from some kid with a pie launcher...don't remember anything else about the episode. I wish the show would reair on toondisney. Enough time has passed...need to save up for the DVDs I suppose...right now though I am more interested in the comics.

Sah

Hell, Demona is immortal and has all the time she wants to kill humanity, so maybe she told Goliath about the Praying Gargoyle simply to test him, see if he really did want vengeance. She knew she could recover the crystal later, which of course, she did.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

I still think that Demona was turned on watching Goliath kill Robyn... well, they thought she and Jon were dead. That, and all his talk about wanting vengeance.

She may have thought he was finally "Seeing the light"

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I am The Decider!" - President George Walker Bush

Todd: <About Demona and the Praying Gargoyle: Maybe she'd deluded herself into thinking that Goliath wouldn't try to stop her this time.> That was actually on my mind when I referred to Demona's slip of the tongue. Their dialogue together in Part Two looked like it had those undertones.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"God, give me the power to take breath from a breeze, and draw life from a cold metal frame." -Dream Theater ("Wait for Sleep")

I'm not basing my comment from youtube trolls, just was a recent example.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]

Arguing with the trolls in the comments at YouTube has to be one of the most insane wastes of time on all of the internet.

What differentiates anime from animation? Well, for one thing, in American animation, the voices are usually pretty well lip-synced and you never see them linger on a totally still shot for 10 seconds or more to stretch out the running time.

Todd > Wikipedia can be your friend in cases like these.

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]

Meant to comment about this sooner.

MKL> I'd have to say that the vast majority of R-rated, M-rated, or "Adult" entertainment is just as if not more vacuous and immature drivel than the shlock that the television feeds to children on a regular basis.

Purplegoldfish> And honestly, there have been so many fantasy/action tv shows geared towards adults that I have found much more immature and unrealistic and predictable than Gargoyles.

IMO, it's part of the unspoken rule of adulthood. Being Adult=Obsession with sex, profanity and drugs. Not much to say about the other two, but I'm not opposed to sex, but it's pretty sad that the higher majority thinks that sex is the ultimate defining trait of being an adult.

For instance, on youtube if you show an interest in Saturday morning cartoons, videogames , comic books you risk getting comments like:

- Get a life.
- You need to get laid you retarded sux.


As far as shows that try to be mature, it's safe to say the ones who put them together don't have any standards. I'm refering to Greg's comment about further adult content on Gargoyles:

"As to whether the show would get "more adult" if we had the non-broadcast freedom to be, the answer would generally be "no". I think the show appeals to adults now, without adding gratuitous elements. I wouldn't shy away from doing a drug story if I had a good story to tell about drugs. Adding curse words and nudity for their own sake doesn't interest me. I like nudity as much as the next guy, but it would have to fit. We basically showed Fox nude at the end of "Eye of the Beholder", because it made sense that she'd have no clothes on after her transformation. But I'm not out to arouse anyone. As for murder, hey, been there, done that.

The show's the show. I'd love to have freedom from standards and practices, but I won't ignore my own standards."

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]

*reads Vertigo1's post *

That would explain why I didn't get it.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Ozzie> "In anime they also usually have an end to their stories, even if they have to cut the series short and make something up."

Yeah, like Fullmetal Alchemist. Not so much in the case of Inuyasha, though.

*feels deep hatred for the cheap, non-closure way they ended Inu*

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.

"I don't get the 69 part. What's the significance of it?" - Todd

He was making a joke seeing as 69 is a sexual position.

Vertigo1
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

Patrick: i think you would believe it if it cost you 4 times more ;)
Demon@
And yeah, there is still hope!!

Dang it, I should have read my post over before hittding add. I ment to say "Even if they banned adult orient animation in America"
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

I don't get the 69 part. What's the significance of it?

About Demona and the Praying Gargoyle: Maybe she'd deluded herself into thinking that Goliath wouldn't try to stop her this time. The last time that she'd seen him, he was in a vengeful rage against the Hunters that had reached the point where he wanted to kill them, a rage that had clearly delighted her. Maybe Demona believed that he'd finally "seen the light" and been cured of that "foolish" desire to protect humans and seek peace with them.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

<Its bad when America does it, but okay when Japan does.>

I don't think it's so much that people find it ok when Japan does it. I think it's more that there is nothing they can do about Japan doing it. They can't write japanese companies angry letters and even if they could they would be ignored. If they tried to get adult oriented animatino in America it still wouldn't phase Japan, it just ment anyone in America who wanted to see it would have to try to find it on the net.

Aside from that all the points you make were pretty much spot on. I think another reason that some people like anime so much is that unlike alot of american cartoons they actually have a progressing plotline. In anime they also usually have an end to their stories, even if they have to cut the series short and make something up.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

Vaevictis: Bad Guys is scheduled to appear in October 2007, but everything else sounded accurate.

Brigadoon Traveller & (maybe even) A Lex: Welcome to the CR! Have a cookie (**Points to Cookie Table**)

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Sorry for the double post.

Patrick, I'm not refusing to buy it. But I literally can't afford to buy it individually, and will have to wait to buy three comics at a time. I'm certainly not waiting until the paperbacks.
You can get mad at me if you like, but I don't have disposable income like some people. I just can't afford to spend $8 or more dollars per comic and keep buying it.

Vaevictis Asmadi

B&CF: Yes, the plan is that Bad Guys will appear, starting in September or November, as a sort of mini-series. It will be in black-and white to save money, but with color covers. The plan is to print 6 issues, during alternate months from the main comic so that for a year there will be a gargverse comic every month. Supposedly, if Bad Guys sells well, then a Pendragon miniseries will start up after that, and maybe the Bad Guys series would be continued again later.
Greg posted about it on Ask Greg, it should be in the comics section of the archive.

Vaevictis Asmadi

I can't believe some people are already giving up on the comic because of the cost of postage. Guess what... if everyone waits for the trade paperback instead of getting the individual comics, there's not going to be any trade paperback. It's the same as waiting for Disney to release Season 2 Volume 2 to buy Season 2 Volume 1.

Yes, occasionally I miss a day with the countdown. Sorry we all didn't get to giggle yesterday over the number 69. :P

68 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]

For those in Germany who have trouble getting the Comic, I'd recommend www.comicshop.de
That's where I got mine, last issue cost me 5,30€ (3,30 the comic + 2 € shipping) and the were really fast, had the last issue within four days. I think they would send it even cheaper, if you abo it.

Anonymous

Sah: <It is my belief that so long as she is unable or unwilling to deal with these core issues she will be unable to see what needs to be done, or even why she is really wanting to do it, and so her plans will fall apart.>

However misguided she may be, I think Demona KNOWS what she wants. I really don't think her inability to cope with the past is the reason that her plans keep failing. As I've said, there are a lot of outside forces that factor into her plans for most of the series. I think there was only one plan that was undone by her inability to face herself, and as we saw, she went right back to burying it.

<I would really enjoy seeing the whole series through again, and then seeing the whole Mirror episode and Puck's dealing with Demona again and seeing to what extent Puck is playing on Demona's denial of her own hand in things.>

I don't think Puck was playing on Demona's denial of anything. She asked him to get rid of the human, Elisa Maza, and he did just that. I don't think he really cared about waxing psychological. He was just having fun.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"God, give me the power to take breath from a breeze, and draw life from a cold metal frame." -Dream Theater ("Wait for Sleep")

Harvester of Eyes...this is a tough one cause most anyone here has probably a better feel for the series than I do, and a better abillity to remember exact lines and all. I haven't watched the show in years so I am going by impresions that I remember from back then. But I am pretty much comming from a psychological background here, not using exact episode situations. So I guess what I mean is Demona's whole world view is off, simply because she can't see herself in an honest and accurate light. So long as she is looking for outside boogymen to focus her self hatred on, she will be unable to deal with things in a way that would ever ease her of her termoil. I realy got the sense that Demona is in emmense pain due to what she has witnessed during her life, and especially for what she sees as her hand in it, or at least to the degree she will allow herself to see it. Demona's whole hatred for Elisa...well, who created the gap between her and Goliath that Elisa is now filling? Demona. Demona's whole blaming humanity for all that went wrong....who led the (Vikings was it) attacking forces to the castle and turned the castle over to them? Demona. She has a lot to feel guilty for and guilt over past events that cannot be undone has the tendancy to ruin, even kill people. It is my belief that so long as she is unable or unwilling to deal with these core issues she will be unable to see what needs to be done, or even why she is really wanting to do it, and so her plans will fall apart. I guess I have an odd belief that even if as individulas we refuse to see the truth, the truth somehow still gets played out. Demona is not playing in the real reality of things. The truth is, she has a lot to blame for what has happened...so long as she can't see that, things won't work out her way. It is, in my opinion, the universe's way of saying, "your off the mark here". This is my own philosophy, so take it as you will. I would really enjoy seeing the whole series through again, and then seeing the whole Mirror episode and Puck's dealing with Demona again and seeing to what extent Puck is playing on Demona's denial of her own hand in things. I haven't seen the show in years, but I know he manipulated her a lot due to her false beliefs(in particular his turning her into a human during the day...serious poetic justice there), just can't remember the extent. Anyhow, hope that made a bit more sense.
Sah

Anime is popular for two reasons:

1.) Its cheap. You can animate ANYTHING and it will still cost about the same. While if you had made the same movie live action, you would need several animatronic robots and puppets, as well as people in costume to make the SAME creature. Anime is cheap to make, hence there is so much out there.
2.) The artwork. People apprieciate and like the style. Just like people love the art of Lion King or Hunchback. Many anime movies are simply beautiful to look at.

Anime can be made to be for kids, like Pokemon to adults like Vampire Hunter D. Americans and other Wester countries have a prejudice for animation. If Disney started a new animation devision for adults, making adult animated features that were full of horror, violence, and sex, you KNOW people would bitch and complain. That is because this culture has a prejudice against animated features. Look at the groups that complained about Ariel being naked or Esmerelda's dancing. And yet, when anime does the same thing, no one bats an eye....That's because people EXPECT and ACCEPT it when it comes from Japan. Consider it psuedo-racisim. Its bad when America does it, but okay when Japan does.

To me:
Anime is animation from Japan
Cartoons are shorts like Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny
Animated features are animated movies
Animated series are tv series which are animated

So when I talk about Gargoyles to someone who doesn't know about it, I call it an "animated series". It just makes it sound a little more mature then "cartoon". Almost being politically correct

Siren - [Click my name for my music videos!]

Matt about anime. That question is alittle hard to answer honestly. But the main thing is that there are alot of anime fans who have this belief that anything that isn't anime is inferior and practically cry murder if someone calls it a cartoon. These people also seem to have a large obsession with japanese culture in general. I'd go into more detail but let's just say they take fanboyism to the extreme.

Me personally, I just like whatever I like regardless of whether it's a cartoon, animated series, anime, or whatever someone wants to call it.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

Sah: I don't claim to be an expert either, but based upon conversations I've had with other people, it sounds like you're hitting the nail on the head as far as explaining her vendetta.

<I have always felt that the emense pain Demona fealt was more than she could deal with and accept her role in and so she needed a scape goat: humanity.>

Exactly. "What have I... what have THEY done to you?" Blaming humanity keeps her from accepting responsibility for her own hand in it.

What I'm confused by is what you mean by inability to carry her plans through. It looked to me like Elisa was pretty much the only thing that stopped her from killing Goliath in "Awakening". The debacle with the Phoenix Gate didn't work because she didn't know that history can't be changed. Again, an outside factor she had no control over. When she captured Puck, Puck kept mincing her words. Her attempt to murder Elisa was foiled by dumb luck.

One might be able to count "City of Stone." But that seemed like a momentary lapse. She pushed it back into her subconscious again. "Hunter's Moon" just seemed more like a slip of the tongue. The second Goliath knew that the praying gargoyle was an intricate part of the plan, he was on it. It was her slip of the tongue that did it, but I don't think it was based off her trying to block out her own involvement in what happened to the clan. It looks to me like her will to carry out her plans is solid. What exactly do you mean by inability?

Patrick: I just noticed that you missed your favorite day of the countdown again. You sick or something, man?

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"God, give me the power to take breath from a breeze, and draw life from a cold metal frame." -Dream Theater ("Wait for Sleep")

*waves* hey, just a linkdrop and reminder that today (Sunday) is the last day for voting at MGC... So go add yours if you haven't already, and check back tomorrow for the results. ^_^
kess - [< lasy day to vote!]

I'm in Australia and I just went to my local comic shop and made a subscription for each issue. It costs me $8.50 AUS, which is about $7 US.

I usually receive them on the same day they are released in the US, or a day later. They must ship them early so they arrive close the release date.

A Lex

Has anyone located close to a comic retailer thought about "adopting" fellow Gargs fans who are out of the country, or that are having trouble getting the comic? My local shop pulls two copies of each issue of Gargoyles for me, one of which gets shipped to Australia for Chameleongirl. (Unfortunately, I can't give a very accurate description of exactly how much it costs to just ship the comic, since I usually send more stuff along with it. ^_^)

Sending inside the US by regular first class mail is probably a bit cheaper. You can find large envelopes for near $1 or less. If you get a bag and board for the comic when you purchase it, that will provide some protection when you mail it (I'd still mark the envelope with "DO NOT BEND" just to be safe). Within the US, it'll probably cost less than $3 to get a single comic where it needs to go if you send it by First Class (flate rate priority will cost you $4.05). Outside the US... I'd guess between $4 and $7, depending on where it goes, and whether you buy a heavilly padded envelope. I'm sure working out a payment plan would be easy... PayPal, money orders, well-concealed cash... Just start collecting funds a couple of weeks before the release date. And make sure you've worked it out with your retailer how many copies you need beforehand (comic orders are usually placed two to three months before the book is due out). ^_^

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

What makes anime different from cartoons and animated series' besides it's country of origin? Is something like Pokemon considered anime?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Ordering online can be really expensive, (expecially when you live across the ocean over here in the UK) - I ordered #1 from Amazon, #2 from SLG and #3 from silverbulletcomics.com and all three times the total cost was roughly about $13 (£7). (Hopefully things should get cheaper as I managed to set up a 6-issue subscription with a comic book dealer here in the UK.) Anyway I've still to receive my copy of #3 yet (international mail and what not - this whole comic book ordering debacle has turned into a test of my patience) apparently it was shipped on the 3rd but still hasn't arrived.

I asked SLG about whether there are any plans for trade paperbacks in the near future - they've still to reply to my email, but as soon as I hear anything I'll let you guys know.

Oh btw I'm new here… *waves to everyone* hi!

Brigadoon Traveller

Sah: I beleive your analysis on Demona is pretty spot-on: I agree as well that Demona is a victim of her own fears, and that the possibility of experiencing more pain and anguish is just too much of a price for her (makes sense for a character who can't die easily).

Off subject but still Gargoyles related:

I just met today at the University an already recently-converted Gargoyles fan. He saw the show as a kid but only the "Heroes Awaken" VHS and he just discovered them as a DVD. He didn't know of the comics however and I let him know about them and how great it is to have new stories. But the conversation eventually traveled to the whole "When's S2V2 coming out?" and I had to explain to him the whole debacle THAT has been. He was disappointed, of course, but I told him to have hope and to help Spread the Word as well. I didn't have time to ask him who converted HIM, but once I do, I think I'll be part of a new little Garg community here!

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

You could look at people calling things "Cartoons" as a generic term to refer to all animation. It's kinda like how people call tissues kleenex. It's always going to be this way, especially if you factor in people who don't watch animation. I can't count how many times I've heard anime fans complain about their parents referring to anime as "Them japanese cartoons"
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

Sorry if I'm late to the conversation. Didn't have a chance to get online for a while.

Cartoon stuff> Could someone define "(animated) cartoon". Is it not synonymous with "animated series"? It's also a lot quicker to say "That cartoon such-and-such" as opposed to "That animated series such-and-such." Even Batman: TAS is usually referred to as a cartoon, and it has "Animated Series" in the title.

Miyazaki films> I'm pretty sure that Porco Rosso is the only Ghibli film he's done that has NOT been directly aimed at children--this includes Mononoke Hime.

Comic/SLG> I can't believe SLG doesn't offer subscriptions. And what's up with their shipping cost structure? I've never seen shipping rates based on the value of what you buy as opposed to weight or number of items. Their shipping costs have to discourage many people from purchasing through their website--then again, that could be the purpose if they never really wanted to get into selling directly to the end consumer.

Did I read somewhere that SLG's planning on doing Bad Guys?

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music Selection: Mujin Wakusei Survive OST--Forest

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Demona, as I am no Greg Weisman, but it seemed to me that what thwarted her plans the most were her own inabillities to deal with her pain for what happend to the clan, including Goliath. Seemed to me Demona and her distrust of humans caused a lot of bad things to happen that may not have happened as she feared it the would, ie, she reacted to things in fear and that action in turn caused negative consequences. She distrusted the humans and feared they would betray her, and so plotted to have the people at the castle killed, but it backfired on her and her clan was nearly whiped out. I have always felt that the emense pain Demona fealt was more than she could deal with and accept her role in and so she needed a scape goat: humanity. Perhaps the inabillity to see her plans through has more to do with this inabillity to see her role in the root of all the pain in her life. Demona is clearly a victim of her own fears of what could have been. I really do wonder if she chose not to deal with it, or if it is more the truth that she was simply unable to deal with it as the pain and guilt she felt seemed as though it would have destroyed her if she tried to. I have always leaned more towards the latter, and wonder if Goliath didn't see that as a fate of hers as well. It's been a while since I have seen the show, so be nice on the criticisms.
Sah

According to my comic guy, Al orders from Diamond comics. Diamond only got a partial shipment SLG. So Al told me to call back in two-three weeks.

The comic book store near my sister is also waiting on a shipment and I have been told that it is on back order. They told me that SLG has very small print runs hence the wait.

So it all adds up. Dan Vado, the President of SLG, told me in an e-mail that requests from distributors was DOWN TWENTY FOUR PERCENT. Therefore, SLG did a smaller print run than normal, hence the shortage and difficulty in getting #3.

And there's no way in hell that I'm paying for shipping, especially when shipping is more than the cost of the item.

Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Matthew 16:26

I cant think of a creature who has manage to survive for a thousand years alone in a world full of creatures that hunt her and hate her, been stupid. Demona has managed to live among humans, free, evading The Hunters and Macbeth and even dealing with humans withouth having to show herself to them.
I think the problem with her plans (and everything she does by the way) is her temper and irrationality. As Greg said she is inteligent, just not wise enough.

Demon@
And yeah, there is still hope!!

Can't believe some fans still have trouble getting the comic. I can understand if you don't have a comic shop around, and need to go the online ordering route as a last resort. Its just to me if you do have a comic store, why would want to pay shipping costs on a comic? Now as to if a comic store can get you a comic after its already come out and your store tries to order for you is an iffy. I've tried many times doing this with the odd comic I've missed, and have the store do a back order request (50/50 success for my requests). It all depends if the Diamond Comics warehouse has anymore extra copies left. If not then they can't get it for you. You won't be charged for a single comic on such requests. These things fall under the stores account with Diamond, and then would be shipped to that store on their next available shipping week or when the order is processed. I've no idea if this applies to customers who aren't regulars and do such requests. Do you leave your phone number or perhaps they may charge you a deposit for it (could be very wrong on this)? Because I'm sure the store would need some sort way of not taking a loss on a comic if the customer don't pick it up(again could be wrong).
As I've posted before:
Comic stores as others said, are forgetting the book exists or think its cancelled. Its either the comic stores get the book or not. I cannot stress its best to get the subscription service, file or pull box, for customers from their local comic shop, those who have one. Don't expect the store will get it, its asking these stores to get every title in the comic world. Comic stores are a small business and order what the customer wants, what has the best sales. I mean why pay more with shipping? I ran this shipping through Amazon.com and SLG (I'm in Canada though) and their prices were almost the same, under $12 US for intl ship. I also think it better that you get these in issue bundles, just getting one comic per shipping doesn't seem logical.
As for why Gargoyles #3 has such a delay with Amazon.com, it could be the same thing how a newstand store (7-11 or Macs, etc) gets the same comics a month later, after its been out in the comic stores for a month. The Mass markets get things later (newstands & Amazon) then the direct market (comic stores). Either way with the comic's delays and Amazons delays, I guess it don't matter how Gargoyles readers get the comic, they'll still have to always wait. With the way the comic is going it'd be almost better getting these as a trade paperback collected book. Which I was surprised Greg Weisman didn't know about (Ask Greg recent answer) as a possiblity down the road (can't blame him either, can't know everything from a writer to the publishers plans). I'm basing this on SLG's Dan Vado's words from a comic convention weeks ago. Its something he'd do if Disney doesn't take the option on the trade books.

DK2

Wait... does Midtown Comics have NO shipping charge within the US? I looked on the website but I want to make sure I did not mis-read. If that is so then I can order from them! Has anyone here ordered from them and know them to be reliable/trustworthy?
Vaevictis Asmadi

Side-note about Macbeth: though we don't know precisely how pious he was, we do know that in actual history, he visited the Pope in Rome during his reign (in the year 1050). Exactly what about, I'm not certain. (I doubt that Demona went with him, however. She probably was part of the "Regency Council" that ran things in Scotland in his absence - particularly since she was his primary advisor.)

Scotland's not being Roman Catholic during Macbeth's time, incidentally, was probably one of the *real* reasons why the English were so keen on invading it (with the gargoyles being only the pretext for their alliance with Canmore). The then-English king, Edward the Confessor, was a very pious man who must have seen the particular brand of Christianity in Scotland at the time to be heretical - and who probably regarded gargoyles as demons, at that. (Another reason why he would have decided to help Canmore was that he himself had been forced into exile as a boy when somebody seized the throne from his father, as well, and would probably have identified with Canmore's situation - and I'm certain that Canmore eagerly took full advantage of that.)

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Vaevictis> GO to your local comic shop and ask if they can set you up a file. If they're a decent shop, they should. And nope, they won't charge you for the shipping. If they're a good store, they should be able to.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I am The Decider!" - President George Walker Bush

Purplegoldfish -- thanks for telling me those sites. I'm a little uncomfortable ordering from a site I don't know much about, but the main issue is that no matter who I buy from, the shipping is $4 or $5 or even more per book, so I might as well buy from SLG. The only way to avoid that is to wait until several come out and buy them in groups, but then I end up waiting six months or so while everyone else has it, trying to avoid spoilers.

I would like to ask the comic shop near my school if they are willing to order #4 for me, but I don't know anything about comic shop "etiquette" so to speak, or how to ask the question correctly, without sounding demanding or rude. Also, I don't know if a comic shop would charge me the shipping cost to order a single copy for me, or if they get free shipping from Diamond and the like.

Vaevictis Asmadi

Demonskrye> I eamiled BVHV on the Pilots isuue thingy several times and it seemed to work. They put them out. If we all massed eamiled them aboust aseason 2.2, I thiink it may have some effect. Trouble is, even thinks it won't work, so no one can be bothered to try. But you never know if something will work unless you try.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

GERIN> That was a typo, I meant to say she's very intelligent, she's just not very wise. There is a difference.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I am The Decider!" - President George Walker Bush

Greg B.: Hey, thanks for your quick reply. I agree that Demona's certainly not stupid. It probably also depends on how one defines intelligence. Maybe she understands quantum mechanics and has the brains to think up a shrewd, clever plan. But I don't feel the given examples qualify as such:

- her plan in "Temptation" fails not because of some unforeseen accident, but because she misjudges Brooklyns loyalty towards Goliath and his reaction to her enchanting him.
- The guards indeed fired their guns inside the airship. (What was she thinking? Why do they make guards carry around weapons?)
- Xanatos was suspicious all along in "City of Stone", but he let his greed get the better of him nonetheless. It's rather his mistake, possibly out of greed, than her cleverness. But she's manipulative, all right.

But I digress. The question was: did she know about heliocentricity? And here, I just don't see her as thinking a second time about something that must seem obvious to her the first time. Instead, she shows an extraordinary immunity to reason. Nearly everything we see from her supports this: she didn't wait for MacBeth's decision regarding Bodhe's advice, nor did she come up with a good idea how to utilize the reawakened clan (and she had time for that, considering how long it must have taken to build Eyrie Tower). Her plan to free castle wyvern from humans is riddled with holes... I could go on as well. I won't hold against her that she made a recording about Operation Clean Slate for no apparent reason (bad writing?), but obviously Robyn Canmore managed to outwit her by infiltrating Nightstone Unlimited.

I guess the trouble is that, being the antagonist, she's doomed to fail. Otherwise, the show'd be over, So her plans must be flawed. All in all, Demona's plans tend to be coarse, but that's only natural. If you're immortal, you don't need to think about consequences too much.

"I could go on. She's very intelligent, she's just not very bright."
I'm not sure how to take that one. So you agree she doesn't exhibit particular brightness?

Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]

Vaevictis-There are other places to buy the book online who are quick in sending them.

I've used these two before-
http://www.midtowncomics.com/
http://silverbulletcomics.com/
They had the book the first day it was released. You can also order from the SLG site. I hear you about the shipping rates though. It is frustrating how hard it is sometimes to get the comic.

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny

That sucks.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Well, I gave up. I'm not going to order #3. The local comic store doesn't sell it, Amazon said they wouldn't even put it in the mail until May 14 and I'm not willing to wait that long to see issue #2 which I was going to order at the same time. And since I don't have a job and barely have money, I can't afford to keep shelling out $4 or $5 in shipping every time I buy a comic.

Sometime in the future, if more issues are published, I'll order them in a group from SLG. Probably 3 at a time, starting in July. SLG has much higher shipping costs than Amazon, but it seems I don't have a choice.

This makes me angry. The books should be available. Amazon should not accept people's order and then refuse to ever ship the book, but I keep hearing people in the CR who ordered it and never got the book even many months later.

Vaevictis Asmadi

GERIN> I didn't say Demona cared, nor would I call her a scientist, but yes, she is very intelligent. She is just deluded, and her own worst enemy.

"does she ever exhibit particular brightness?"

Yes, quite often. She played Brooklyn very well in "Temptation"; her actions on Fortress One "You won't fire your guns in here, you could damage the air ship" to bringing it down, so everyone would be too busy trying to save their own necks to stop her and Goliath; managing to manipulate Xanatos of all people in "City of Stone"; she was able to play Macbeth really well if he was willing to marry her only twenty days after meeting "Dominique".

I could go on. She's very intelligent, she's just not very bright.

And, I just don't see Macbeth as being all that religious. Does he believe? Sure, probably. But, considering all the things that have happened to him, I highly doubt he's all that pious.

And again, the Catholic Church did not have a strong presense in Scotland till after Canmore took the throne.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I am The Decider!" - President George Walker Bush

Greg B.: Science is only of interest to Demona when it advances her agenda of destroying humanity. So, would she even care? She's a closed-minded individual who does not question her own conclusions. She's not interested in truth or knowledge for its own sake. All she cares about is reinforcement of her beliefs.
Now, the conflict about a spherical earth and a heliocentric universe was really about paradigms. A spherical earth was in direct contradiction to what any person perceived. Would Demona believe a human scientist when his claims don't match her experience? I think not. Consider that Eratosthenes shadow measurement and sailors' observations are relying on daylight. She could not even verify the claims.
And don't get me wrong, I'm really a Demona-fan, but look at it with a cold eye: does she ever exhibit particular brightness?

MacBeth is different, because he's into values such as honour, truth and wisdom. If somebody demonstrated Eratosthenes experiment to him, I think that MacBeth would accept the consequences. But I don't see him as a scientist who would even think about the foundations of the universe, let alone question without need a belief he'd been brought up with. That's what I meant with "pious".


HoE: like the spherical earth, some old greek philosophers already believed in a heliocentric universe. This view shares the anti-intuitiveness with the spherical-earth-view, and on top of that was very difficult to prove. For that reason, Copernicus did not publish his ideas for a long time - he knew he could not prove what he claimed. It's a complicated story, but in short, at his time the ptolemaic system had been refined very often and Galileo had a hard time beating its accuracy. Eventually, what aided him was the principle of Occam's Razor, which is from the 13th century (I don't know if the old greeks had it already, but if yes, it was forgotten in the meantime as everything else), and the invention of the telescope to show that there are mountains and valleys on moon just like there are on earth.
Again, I don't see why or how Demona or MacBeth should have worried about it, so I'd be surprised to learn that they knew this before it became common knowledge.


Max. Alt.: there are records of collisions between commercial aircraft and condors at 13.000 m and of paragliders and unpowered planes lifted up to those heights. The oxygen issue has been mentioned, though. It's also really cold. I wonder what exactly Gargoyles are looking for at that altitude.

One last thingy: Freakazoid-Lawn Gnomes -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSQWx8X8WHk

Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]

On the Gargoyles' maximum gliding hight:

Remember, since waking up in 1994, the gargoyles have been flying to and fro from the Eyrie Building, which being taller than the lowest cloud hight is pretty darn high. But I definitely imagine strong currents of wind (and the occasional building climbing) to help them.

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Something totally off topic, i'm sorry

Is anyone going to see the new aqua teen hunger force movie? One of the reasons i say this is because I recall someone saying Bruce Campbell is god among actors. He actually does a voice in the movie. He's Chicken Bittle.

Back to Gargoyles.

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

Concerning Demona and Macbeth: they had one definite advantage over most of the people in the world, at least until Gutenberg made what was perhaps the most important contribution to the second millenium. They could read. What I'd like to know is, did they think that the Earth was the center of the Solar System before Copernican theory came along?

Of course, on that note, I wonder what they might have been interested in reading. Has Greg ever said how many languages they can speak? I would think that Demona might teach herself other languages in her travels. She can be prudent when her emotions don't affect her judgment, and it's not for nothing that they say, "know your enemy." Which is why I would also theorize that Demona might have had some interest in human science, if only to keep herself up to speed on man's technological advances. I mean, science did play a part in Operation Clean Slate.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Join the Phoenician Navy! See the edge of the world!" -A recruiting poster from history.

GERIN> "I'm not sure that Demona, even flying really high, could see that the world is a sphere."

Ummm.... okay.

"Also, she strikes me neither as the intellectual type nor as somebody who'd believe human scientists."

Except for all those times she believed human scientists and sorcerors. Just because she hates humans doesn't mean she's not using our scientific advances for her own personal use. Weapons, viruses, raising castles above the clouds. Studying our sorcery.

"As for MacBeth: he was a royal, he must've been brought up to believe something along the lines of his own descendance and godly design. He was rather pious and not a scientist, I think. So it rather makes sense to me that he did not consider the world a sphere."

I'm sure he was religious, but I doubt he was pious. For one, the Catholic Church was not widespread in Scotland until after Canmore took over. Plus, there was that whole dealing with gargoyles thing, and making deals with witches.

Macbeth probably had much more of an open mind than many others back then.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I am The Decider!" - President George Walker Bush

Matt: I imagine it would have to do with their individual metabolisms and their ability to survive on smaller amounts of available oxygen in whatever part of the atmosphere they are gliding in.
Vertigo1
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

Speaking of gliding really high, I've always wondered about a maximum altitude a gargoyle would be able (or willing) to go. Gliders in nature are generally not going any higher than the treetops. Since gargoyles' preferred habitat is mountains and cliffs I'd assume they'd be comfortable at even greater heights. But I have to wonder at what point a gargoyle just won't or can't go any higher. I can remember a few times when the gargoyles were extremely high up (Griff and Goliath fighting the Nazis for instance), but I doubt we've seen their top height yet.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

a
good

y

Matt, thanks for the hint regarding Freakazoid.

MacBeth, Demona and the world is a disc:
Is it documented that back then, most educated people knew the earth was a sphere? I guess we all realize that at that time, the shape of the earth wasn't as obvious as it is today. The trouble was that there was no easy way to prove to others that earth was a sphere.
- Eratosthenes experiment is a simple proof, but requires a good deal of effort (travel, research) and abstract thinking.
- Sailors spun yarn about mermaids, Atlantis and waterfalls at the end of the world... who'd believe them the earth was a sphere if their eyes told them otherwise?
- Last but not least, we have to consider that the middle ages were a time where books were seldom, precious and hard to come by. Most people were illiterate, science as we know it today had not been invented, and neither was there a school system.

I'm not sure that Demona, even flying really high, could see that the world is a sphere. Also, she strikes me neither as the intellectual type nor as somebody who'd believe human scientists.
As for MacBeth: he was a royal, he must've been brought up to believe something along the lines of his own descendance and godly design. He was rather pious and not a scientist, I think. So it rather makes sense to me that he did not consider the world a sphere.

One last thought:
Greg once said something to the effect that sooner or later, the Gargoyle universe would have contained all myths. The monster of Loch Ness, the Arthurian Legend... in Gargoyles, it's all true! Are you sure that in that universe, earth really is not flat? ;-)

Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]

I myself picked up the issue at the comic book stores in my area. If you don't have a comic book store, then you could always try Hastings. They keep up on the current comics from what I've seen.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]

Vertigo1, I had the same problem with Issues #1 and #2 when I tried to order them last month. I ended up canceling the order and ordering all 3 from the SLG site.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

Now that my ISP has apparently unblocked this server (why they did, I have NO idea!), I can finally come here again (without having to hunt through a managerie of anonymous proxies that might not work the next time).

Am I the only one having issues ordering issue #3 of the comic from Amazon? Seriously, I ordered it along with the soundtrack to Eragon (fantastic movie btw) last sunday. They JUST NOW shipped the soundtrack, but the estimated ship time for the comic is MAY FIRST at the EARLIEST! Seriously, WTF?! I order it the VERY DAY it FINALLY shows up on Amazon, and I have to wait nearly a month to get it?! (Before anyone asks, No there are not any local retailers willing to carry anything from SLG. Trust me, I've tried. Amazon is my only way of getting them.) I have never had to wait this long for anything to ship from Amazon. The longest I have ever waited was a day or two TOPS! What's the deal here?!

Vertigo1
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

If you want to see who the guy on youtube is, he appears without the costume on another of his videos. Just check his youtube profile for a video which is suppose to be a comparison review between the NES Power Glove and the Nintendo Wii.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]

All I'll say is that if the youtube guy is reading this, and he'll be in Tennessee this June, he can come look for me. I'll buy him coffee. Of course, now I'm probably going to have a bunch of people come up to me demanding free coffee.

This might be a little late, but I thought I'd try posting my own theory on Labyrinth Girl (although someone might have come up with this already): I wonder if she's related to Margot. I know if I were related to that Yuppie cunt, I'd opt to live in the sewers, too.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Mr. Pickle's Discount Abortion Clinics: We'll bring out the kid in you!"

WINGLESS> Because, for the most part, I believe Macbeth respects gargoyles as a species. In spite of his feud with Demona, and his conflicts with Goliath. Goliath, he probably has a degree of respect for anyway. It was never personal.

While I think Macbeth will still fall into the category of antagonist, he's still too noble to stand aside while a species he knows and respects is facing possible genocide without at least speaking out.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I am The Decider!" - President George Walker Bush

Demonskrye - you're very welcome. Being a Old time TV and animation junkie, I keep a close eye on the tvshowsondvd.com site for stuff like that-which is where I found the link. Only wish my wallet could keep up with all the cool stuff coming out. Even knowing that Warners is putting out the original Birdman & Space Ghost sets this summer. As cheezy as they are, I can't wait ^_^

Gargoyles related. Now that we've seen Macbeth defend the Gargs on TV, I can't help but wonder where He'll show up next in the comic-and what will he be up to. Will he still be on the side of the Gargs or out for his own gain. It still seems odd why exactly he went on Nightwatch in the first place after all he went through with Goliath & Co. Seems like a very sudden turn. Understandably he does know Gargoyle behavior better than anyone else-but why go on TV and defend them after they've been at loggerheads for so long? Ponder..ponder...ponder....

Wingless

Stone of Destiny: Ah, thanks for clarifying that, Todd. I knew it was originally in Scotland, and that it would eventually be taken to England, but that's pretty much all I knew.

So from what you posted, the Stone of Destiny is now in Scotland, and Arthur just barely made it to see it in England, no?

On Columbus, Vikings, etc: As many have said, most of the educated could properly guess that the world was round. The signifigance of these discoveries, however, was the fact that there were two continents in between Europe and Asia.

It may just be me having a thing for New World Exploration up to the American Revolution, but I would personally enjoy reading/watching/knowing Demona and Macbeth's antics from the 15th Century to the 18th Century.

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

This day in Garg history: really interesting thing to happen on my birthday. Pretty cool.

nosprings: thanks for the link, will check it out. It's been forever since I saw that spoof.

Asatira

Lawn Gnomes segment from Freakazoid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSQWx8X8WHk

nosprings

Wingless> Thanks a million for posting that. There's a fair amount of stuff on there that I'd really love to have on DVD, so it's good to know I can voice my opinion.

I think Disney has done sort of similar things in the past, but currently, emailing BVHE seems to have little effect (except for maybe helping to get the Disney Afternoon pilots out).

Demonskrye

PHOENICIAN - Actually, the Stone of Destiny left Scotland in 1296, when King Edward I of England seized it from the Scots and took it to Westminster Abbey. It was kept there ever since until 1996, when it was returned to Scotland. (The Arbroath incident that Greg alluded to was a case where it was briefly taken from Westminster Abbey but recovered.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

"The vikings reached the New World long before Columbus, and Macbeth, in his travels, may have heard."

Even more than that, the ancient Greeks knew the world was round just by looking at it. Watch a ship sail out to sea and notice how it dips over the horizon. Eratosthenes was even able to calculate its perimeter based on measuring the length of shadows at different points on the Earth at the same time. I'm not aware of any time in history when educated people believed that the world was flat. Puts the Flat Earth Society (this is a real group, I swear) in a whole different context of stupid.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"[George Bush] has created so many disasters, I'm not sure he knows which is which anymore. He walked into Walter Reed and said he wanted to have it ready for next year's Mardi Gras." -Bill Maher

Pretty Cool fact in 'This Day in Gargoyle History' -- I wonder how the Stone of Destiny left Scotland (which was present at Macbeth, Constatine, etc corronations) to Arbroath Abbey to begin with. That means it's only been at Westminster Abbey for a grand total of 45 years when Arthur finds it.

Or is Arbroath Abbey IN Scotland??

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Of course, back in the Middle Ages, being educated pretty much amounted to being smart enough not to throw dead bodies into the drinking water ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"No one is entitled to an opinion. They are only entitled to an INFORMED opinion." -Harlan Ellison

In reference to some other animated series on DVD, Warners is holding a servey to what you'd like to see released.
Among the choices are: Plasticman, Shazaam(1967 version), The Jetsons(1980s episodes), Tiny Toon Adventures, Zeta Project, Herculoids, Silverhawks, Harlem Globetrotters, AAAAND the aformentioned Freakazoid!

Personally, I'd like to see them all out, but if you want to vote-by all means click my name add your input. Now if only Disney would ask the public what we want ^_~

Wingless

Antiyonder> The educated were more than aware the world was round. Demona probably knew due to her travels, and knowledge she's accumulated.

The vikings reached the New World long before Columbus, and Macbeth, in his travels, may have heard.

Either way, I do belive Demona and Macbeth fell into the "educated" category, even if it was self-education.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"No one is entitled to an opinion. They are only entitled to an INFORMED opinion." -Harlan Ellison

Here's an idea for a civil discussion: Where did Demona and Macbeth stand on the whole round VS flat Earth debate? Before Columbus found the truth, that is.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

For a chance at a civilized disscussion.... Why don't we speculate on how Demona and Macbeth would react if they were to suddenly wake up on the Planet of the Apes?
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!

"Adult" Shows> I think this term gets applied in a variety of ways, some good, some bad. The problem is that an "adult" show usually means one that has stuff that you wouldn't necessarily want young kids seeing, like "South Park". On the other end of the spectrum, calling something a "kids' show" is usually taken to mean that the program in question is aimed strictly at eh younger set and holds zero intrest for anyone over the age of 10. I think there are quite a few shows that fall into the grey areas in between. You can have a show with nothing outright objectionable for the kiddie set that's still got stuff for adults to enjoy. Or you can have a show that doesn't deature any sex or violence, but the kids just don't find it interesting because it's more talky and a bit over their heads. And there's plenty of stuff that falls in between those examples too. "Gargoyles" may not be suitable for every kid of every age everywhere, but it does appeal to kids and adults alike for the most part.
Demonskrye

The comics are cheap, yes, but I have to pay from my allowance (I think if I try and ask). Besides, I'm trying to save for a bug and a family trip to Disney World. One other thing before I forget, I was able to see the one episode I was never able to see, the Mirror. It was fantastic. When I saw it I thought I was dreaming.
Blis
" I have a signature!" - Blis

Gerin> I think that was on "Freakazoid!". I've never seen it though, so I only know through what people have mentioned in here over the years. So, yeah, it has been mentioned in here.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Awww Ask Greg is falling behind again. That sucks. You know what's weird is how the only person who actually bothered to check all the archives and submit questions responsibly is the same one you all bitched at and turned against you back when you were having PMS.

It's almost like God is saying I'm better than you or something.

ARLO FOREVER

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

While we're talking about changing the subject: a friend once told me about a satire on "Gargoyles" in another animation show, possibly "Animaniacs" or "Pinky and the Brain". It had an episode about "Gardendwarves" who once stole fire from man ("That wasn'nt too bright!") and thus were cursed to remain stone during the day or some such.

Has anybody here ever seen it and remembers which show it was?

Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]

Let's change the subject...

I saw a commerical last night for a movie called "Delta Farce", starring Larry the Cable Guy. I probably won't pay to see it, but Keith David was featured prominently in the commerical as a drill sergeant.

Another "where are they now" story: I've been hearing Tony Dracon's voice promoting the Nissan Altima lately. Has anyone else heard him? Is it really Richard Greico, or just someone that sounds like him?

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

So did I, I think it helps more than it hurts.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

I liked the Garg guy's YouTube review.
Chameleongirl
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid

Good grief. A guy in a silly costume saying the "V-word" on the YouTube is NOT going to destroy the fandom and bring the world as we know it to an end.

Of course, I'm probably one of the last people in this fandom who needs to get off on another rant about censorship and adult language.

70 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!?" - Maude Flanders, "The Simpsons"

Does anyone here who is complaining about the youtube review have a camera of their own to post their own more positive PG rated review? If yes, then do it to counteract the current review. If not, have you tried to contact him and ask him to clean up his language and re-post his review for a younger audience? His review doesn't bother me, so I haven't done anything but watch it and agree with it.

On a positive note, what was bothering me was the binding listings at Amazon.com. They have since fixed them and they now all read "Comic" instead of Paperback and Pamphlet. Just my little OCD nature... ;)

Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Matthew 16:26

SK2 - Yea, all we can is wait patiently and hope the new schedule keeps things on track. Also, remember, starting in September, hopefully we'll be having a gargoyles comic come out every month.

A while back, I noticed on the slg blog that the 1st 5 issues of one of their comic books is going to be printed on trade paperback. They're going to release #8 of that comic next month and the collection in June. Maybe by January of next year, they will be selling a collection of gargoyle comics.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

The YOUTUBE guy if you've all seen his videos, is wearing his halloween costume from his youthful days. I believe he said this in an earlier video. He has 4 videos in all right now on YOUTUBE. I don't see whats the big deal about how he does things with his fandom for the show and comic. Whoever posts on this site is a fan. I have the DVD's and the comics as well. I also have the Marvel comic run and I have the SLG promo poster for the comic. Thats all I ever got of the shows merchandise.
The other thing I worry about is the comic again. Its future. I mean from earlier postings one poster emailed SLG's Dan Vado about the comic and he said it had a 24% drop in issue #3's orders. From my memory of issue #2's print run, 6900 copies. Take away 24% issue #3's print run is 5244 copies roughly. I guess we'll have to wait and see when www.cbgextra.com gets the Diamond Dist. numbers for that month. But its quite obvious that the delays are killing the books orders, retailers as others enquired, are forgetting the book exists or think its cancelled. Not good. And I guess some fans still have some difficulty acquiring the comics despite all the online options. And again the comic stores themselves either get it or not. I can't stress its best to get the subscription service (file or pull box) for customers from their local comic shop, those who have a shop to go to. Don't go shopping and expect that the store is getting it. Its like asking these stores to get every title in the comic book world. Comic stores are a small business and order what the customer wants and what has the best chance for sales. I don't want to create worry but its a thought thats all.

DK2

Something funny that popped into my head while watching some episodes today. It seems whenever someone wants to know something and Goliath doesn't have their answer they never seem to beieve him. Like the episode with Griff and again with the Banshee. He always gets mad and yells when they won't believe him. It would be funny if in one of the comics a situation like this comes up and he just yells "WHY WON'T ANYONE EVER BELIEVE ME?!"
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

I guess there is at least one thing we can all agree on, the Gargoyles cartoon is certainly in good standing for it's character depth, plot development and the lessons it taugh to anyone watching it with an open mind. I really look forward to the comics. The cartoon may never get back on the air, but at least the story will continue in some manner for the time being. I hope to show some friends in Houston some eps I have on tape. One of them is a social worker and may find it of use to discuss certain eps with troubled kids, especially the Broadway shoting Elisa one.
Sah

Antiyonder> I stated my Opinion, and people jumped all over me. :/

Wingless, King Cobra> Thanks. Try as I might, I can't seem to send this spat six feet under.

Lets just drop it, and go back to reviewing #3, PLEASE?

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Antiyonder> I stated my Opinion, and people jumped all over me. :/

Wingless, King Cobra> Thanks. Try as I miht, I can't seem to send this spat six deet under.

Lets just drop it, and go back to reviewing #3, PLEASE?

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

I really doubt that the youtube gargoyle guy will have a negative effect on the sales of the comic. Very young children will most likely not be interested in it anyway-especially now that it's in comic book form and a lot less accessable than when it was a tv show. And just the fact that #1 makes an obvious reference to the word "whore", I don't really think it's the best reading material for little kids.

As for older kids-Most adolescents, if they're intent on getting a comic book, don't usually ask for a parent's permission-and seriously, how many parents are going to go right to youtube to find a review of the comic? (And just by the way the guy is dressed, I don't think many people will take him seriously).

Kids' show-I think we stereotypically group things too much when it comes to tv shows and movies. Most 90's tv shows geard for kids are way better than the crap that's on nowadays-And Gargoyles stands out as the best IMO. But I don't think it should be categorized as a kids' show or and adult animated series, or whatever. It doesn't talk down to anyone-The characters just do what is natural for them just as in the real world. It doesn't use in your face moral lessons, or misplaced "funny" quips, cute talking animals, gratuitous violence or any such things to appeal to one age group or the other--It just is-and that's what's so great about it.

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny

I never said Gargoyles was adult(I even said Y7/C8). It can appeal to all ages. What I did say is that the way youtube garg is portraying comic 3 in his review makes it come across as adult - which could hurt it's potential in the future for younger comic buyers if parents should see this review. I personally don't have a problem with it. I'm just concerned about how it might affect other potential comic buyers. Just the same, he is allowed to say what he said.

As for the BB/GB battle. Opinions are your own-and everyone can share them(Even the youtube garg). It's when one is attacked for sharing them, then there's a problem. Battle Beast is defending her comments-whether you agree with them or not - BB's allowed to have them. Others shouldn't pounce on one's comments and says "No, not maybe. You are wrong. Period" Sorry. you can disagree, but when it's opinion, don't start dictating who's wrong or right. Agree to disagree and move on to a new topic please.

Wingless

Battle Beast> I can have my own opinion of someone if I want to and NO ONE is going to change for me. Period.

Your opinion is fine, but it is actually possible to state it in a civil, non-slanderous way.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

Adult> Family Guy and South Park, I think we can all agree, are adult shows. Gargoyles isn't. Although it is aimed at all ages, what's the official ToonDisney rating for it? A Y7. Not a 'G', an 'R', or even 'PG-13'. It's 'Y'.

Greg B.> I hate to get involved in things like this, but Battle Beast is right. He stated his opinion, and that's it. Nothing can change that. Just chill out, dude. Forget about it.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me' - Venture Bros.

Battle Beast: By your logic, I must be a lousy fan. I watched the show faithfully back in the day, but didn't find out about the fandom until three years ago. I also never taped them back when they were on ABC. And before I stumbled upon them late one night on ToonDisney in the Summer of 2004, the last time I had watched the show was January 2001, when my brother had his wisdom teeth out, and a friend of his brought his VHS Library of them over.

So I suppose if the fandom wants to run me out on a rail, I can't think of a reason why they shouldn't. Just be sure to run it past the 7-11. I need beer and porn.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"A wise Nar once said "A Nebulon under the foot is worth two behind a plasma cannon," but the Nar are still waiting for their mythical savior with green pee to fly their coal-powered interstellar battlewagons to glory against the Nebulons."

Greg> Get off my back. I can say what I want to say, and you don't have to like it.

I can have my own opinion of someone if I want to and NO ONE is going to change for me. Period.

Adult> I don't think Gargoyles is overly childish, but then again, it isn't totally adult. It is a lot smarter than most shoes, especially the other Disney Afternoon shows.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Whoever the youtube garg is, he's okay in my book. Crazy people make the best allies, anyway.

Sah: The CPR thing takes on another dimension when you consider that, judging by what we saw right as Elisa walked in, it looked like Angela was legally dead. Not something one would expect to see on an after-school cartoon.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"A wise Nar once said "A Nebulon under the foot is worth two behind a plasma cannon," but the Nar are still waiting for their mythical savior with green pee to fly their coal-powered interstellar battlewagons to glory against the Nebulons."

Kaioto: "It isn't a coincidence that most of what is considered to be of great literary worth and maturity is fit for consumption by tween and teenage children while most "mature" content is not." -- I'm not sure I buy into this. Numbers being what they are, there's always going to be much more schlock than stardust. I see no evidence that the proportions are particularly different in adult material. What is true is that classics get a bit more leeway over time simply because they are classics. A lot of the stuff in mythology, in Shakespeare would get hammered if it was put out in the cinema today as something original: eye-gouging, stabbing, beheading, incest, all sorts of crazy stuff. But the dirty jokes are masked by archaic language and the violence is sometimes offset by the relatively slow pace and the fact that it's on the page or stage so the audience is more removed. It doesn't take much of a stretch to think of any number of awesome works which are adult in nature though.

Matt: Well, I don't know how adult. "Family Guy" is adult. "His Dark Materials" strikes me as being a much tougher work in nature than "Princess Mononoke" but although I don't think either are geared towards younger kids, I don't think either are strictly adult. I guess it's on a spectrum that will vary for most kids.

Ed Reynolds

I think there's a concern about how the "youtube garg" reviewed the comic in such an adult fashion - when a show like Gargoyles can appeal to people of all ages, but was intended for a youth "Y7(C8 here in Canada)" audience. I think that if a parent saw his review, they likely wouldn't let their kids read the comic - specifically because of the sexual references he makes(despite the fact the comic doesn't reflect that at all). I don't hold that opinion, but then again I don't have kids so maybe my views would be different if I saw his review and didn't know about the series.
Yes there is a distinction between a cartoon & an animated series. We've seen that with the Simpsons, Family Guy, King Of the Hill, South Park, Drawn Together, etc - but those are specific examples of how series is aimed at it's audience. Gargoyles and series like "Avatar-the last airbender" do have that all ages appeal. To quote Gord Lacey from tvshowsondvd.com in his latest review of one of the Avatar sets:
"Something very weird happened while I watched this (Avatar) disc; my girlfriend watched it with me. She has absolutely no interest in cartoons or comic books, so I was surprised when she wanted me to start another episode, then another, and another, and then she was pissed off when "The Library" ended. There's something about this cartoon that appeals to kids, teens, adults, and cartoon-hating girlfriends; it's that good. The true test of the show will be whether she asks me when I'm getting Season 2 volume 3 (it comes out on May 22)" (My name is linked to his full review if you like)

Now even he makes the mistake of labelling it a "Cartoon" but the point is - there that there's more to it that something just for kids. I've turned many people on to Gargoyles and recently to the Avatar series as well. It helps alot when a series has characters with personality-more than one dimension. Not many series made for kids have that kind of character detail. It's an obvious "Good" or "evil" with no gray area. Life isn't like that so having a series that reflects that with very strong characterization - it's going to have every age appeal. Avatar has it, and Gargoyles definately has it.

Back when Gargs was originally on the air, the ads for it during Disney Afternoon wer horrible - and made it look like a cheezy kids show. Now you have the contrast of the "youtube garg" making the comic appearing like it's an NC17 movie or something when it's not. Despite the promotion it gives(and i think the "youtube garg" is a hoot myself, it's just a little irresponsible to portray the show or comic in either light. By doing so, you end of scaring away potential fans that might actually like it.

Wingless

I think a lot of confusion stems from the mislabeling of various types of objectionable content as "adult" or "mature."

Those labels are hung on any piece of content that might draw the most unscrupulous of lawyers to the most idiotic of consumers. The possibility of some legal charlatan trotting out a poorly-raised kid or a drug-addled teen as leverage to shake you down with a lawsuit is a sad reality of our society. Anything that could serve as a scape-goat for undesirable behavior in a child has to be covered in disclaimers and restrictions to shield against these sorts of frivolous tort cases.

The major down-side to all of this is that content that addresses hard reality of emotionally difficult content such as abuse, genocide, etc. gets lumped into the same bucket as content that simply debases or denigrates human beings.

I'd have to say that the vast majority of R-rated, M-rated, or "Adult" entertainment is just as if not more vacuous and immature drivel than the shlock that the television feeds to children on a regular basis. The biggest distinction is that a target market of adults spends their own money while a target market of children spends their parents' money so there is sometimes an additional gatekeeper on buying habits - assuming parents care enough to exercise discriminating taste in what they buy for their kids (too many do not).

It isn't a coincidence that most of what is considered to be of great literary worth and maturity is fit for consumption by tween and teenage children while most "mature" content is not.

- Marty Lund

Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [kaioto at yahoo dot com]

I kinda disagree with you Ed, I don't think a lot of people can see the distinction between a cartoon and an animated series. Hell, I know people that think Princess Mononoke is a children's movie simply because it is animated, despite the clearly adult content.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Would anyone who's NOT a fan dress up in a cardboard gargoyle costume and spend hours editing together footage to post reviews to YouTube? I like the guy. His comments about Goliath and Elisa made me LOL. After Strongbad, he's the funniest thing on the internet in a mask and red boxing gloves.

71 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"I won't be coming home tonight. My generation will put it right." - Genesis, "Land of Confusion"

Ed, I think most people that say Gargoyles isn't a kids show, just don't want it thrown in the same category as say Spongebob or some of this other mindless drivel they market towards kids nowadays. Honestly I don't think I would have watched most the crap they make nowadays even when I was a kid.

Also I just thought I'd mention this here, on my forum on my site(click my name if you want to see it) I have a poll about "Who is your favorite Gargoyle?". I thought maybe if I mentioned it here I'd get some interesting results. If you want to vote and never visit my forum again I wouldn't complain.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

I think I agree partly with Sah.

'Gargoyles' certainly is a kids' show. It's not a "mature upper-level kids' show" or "an adult show going undercover to stick it to the Man". It wasn't a tax dodge or a labelling error or a goof. It's a kids' show: designed as one, aired as one, watched by many in this room when it was one.

It's an excellent, multi-layered kids' show which people of any age can enjoy on different levels -- just like thousands of beloved classics of literature and film and television which have used the medium to marry accessible narrative with ideas complex as well as archetypal.

Look at kids' book and DVD shelves and you'll see literary classics like 'Huckleberry Finn', 'Alice in Wonderland' and 'Watership Down'; pop icons like 'Harry Potter', 'Star Wars' and 'The Hobbit'; names like Roald Dahl, C.S. Lewis, Hayao Miyazaki, Frank L. Baum, Richmal Crompton, Pixar Studios, Philip Pullman, Hergé, Stan Lee etc. etc.

The greatest children's material lifts everyone, speaks to everyone. And I don't think any of these are exclusively for kids. They carry complex satire or social commentary to adults, or just tell stories that are stark and truthful that everyone can get.

The fact that any genre has masses of tat doesn't make the genre bad. 'The Hitcher 2: I've Been Waiting' doesn't make 'Psycho' any less of a classic. People aren't going to throw down 'Romeo and Juliet' in disgust because it reminds them of the love story in 'Gigli'. There's no reason people should confuse 'Gargoyles' with poorer pulp animation.

There's no shame in the fact that 'Gargoyles' was for kids. If anything, the last decade has been extremely kind to the reputation of children's fantasy epic thanks to 'Harry Potter' and its ilk. Young kids enjoy the show, get a kick from the spectacle and the great bad guys, and enjoy the excitement. Older kids can enjoy a lot of the references and subtleties. Adults have plenty to mull over and discuss too. That's a staggering achievement to be celebrated and puts it in terrific company if you ask me.

Antiyonder: That's a really good thought. The title is the only question mark I have -- it seems to make more sense as a fallout from the "Masques" three-parter. Then again, the title "Reunion" is so generic that it could apply to almost anything.

Ed Reynolds

Hmm, Ask Greg is no longer accepting submissions, with 100 questions in the backlog. A nice number. I'm going to guess the submit button is going to stay disabled until either a)the backlog is empty or b)the next issue of the comic comes out next month.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

I seem to vaguely, vaguely remember there being talk in here once about Ask Greg having an RSS feed. Does such a thing exist? I couldn't find any info on it on the AG pages, but I could just be missing something.
Kaylle
GargoylesDVD.com

Purplegoldfish...I think that what I was trying to say was that inspite of it being a show that was made to be watched by kids it had a whole lot that they just wouldn't get. If it weren't the case that it had a lot that would interest an adult as well aas stuff that kids liked I would have never watched it. But it was definately a show that had elements that young boys would have liked...all the cybernetic additions to the Pack would have been just one. But I certainly agree that the deep plot involvements of the Weird Sisters, McBeth and Demona were something that even I didn't get till I had watched the show all the way through twice. I have never seen a cartoon, let least many adult shous, that has that much plot depth. It was certainly a show that was in a class of it's own as it just had so much going for it. Being a show that kids would hopefully enjoy was certainly not a bad thing either as there wre several shows that taught many important lessons, like the one about keeping guns locked up in which Broadway shot Elisa. And CPR being performed on someone...who has seen that on TV let least a show that has sugary cerial advertised during the commercial breaks. It was a very unusual show and I hope that people who read my post realize that is what I am trying to express. It had lessons that need to be taught to both the younger peoples as well as adults. I am autistic and so I have difficulty getting out what I mean at times, but I think we are pretty much saying the same things. If I didn't think it was worthwile to watch as an adult, I wouldn't be interested in the comics or getting DVDs when I don't even have a DVD player yet.
Sah

Thanks for the tip, Greg X. I'm not familiar with the term "pull box".

Unfortunately since January 2007, I've been between my sister's place (in the Stroudsburg area) and my father's place (in the Scranton area) so I don't have a "local" comic store.

I bought #1 and #2 from Al in Old Forge, PA (where I used to live) and I told him to order #3 for me months ago and he said he'd have it for me, but I think he forgot to order it so I didn't get it on 3/28.

"The Encounter" (in Stroudsburg) has ordered it for me, but it'll be two more weeks. Al has ordered it for me, but he has no idea where it is and why it hasn't arrived. I'll probably call "Comics on the Green" back tomorrow. They told me today that it's on back order, so it'll be two weeks with them too.

Hence my frustration -- two weeks has become four and it's driving me nuts.

Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Matthew 16:26

Tony, here's a tip. Set yourself up a pull box at your local comic book store, and request the comic. They will order it for you.

Samuel> Read my sig.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"No one is entitled to an opinion. They are only entitled to an INFORMED opinion." -Harlan Ellison

Well, acquiring the Gargoyles #3 comic has be officially frustrated. I live in the Scranton, Pennsylvania area. "Comic World" doesn't carry comics. "Adventure Games" only carries old school comics, nothing new. "The Unknown" doesn't carry Gargoyles. Finally, "Comics on the Green" has four copies of #3, but the binding was damaged and bent throughout the top of the comic. I had #3 IN MY HANDS and it was garbage because it was damaged. I was so upset and so mad because I wanted to buy it and drove all the way too, but I wasn't going to invest in something damaged. This was today.

Two months ago, I called my regular guy Al in Old Forge with Phoenix Comics and he said he had it ordered. He must have forgot because he didn't get it. The Encounter in Stroudsburg (where my sister lives) doesn't have it. My friend Dan who lives in Danville -- his comic guy doesn't have it either. I'm SOL for now, but I hope to have it in hand soon.

Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Matthew 16:26

GregB: I think you're being a little harsh on Battle Beast. Everyone's entitled to his or her own opinions.

BB: I don't really think that a Gargoyles fan must be someone who visits this site, people enjoy things in different ways. As long as no one's getting hurt, just let it be.

Labyrinth Girl: I'm intrigued to think she might be the relative of someone, but I couldn't imagine whom. Maybe she's Claw's long lost daughter, or a crazy ex-girlfriend of Fang's... Or maybe not... Whatever.

Bad Guys: Do y'all think that BG'll flesh out Fang's back-story? That'd be exciting. I'm curious about him. What kind of life did he lead that he didn't mind being mutated into a monster, as it were.

Happy belated birthday, Abby. There are lots of April birthdays here. :)

Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"I'm going to get what I want."

Battle Beast: <I'd really be surprised if it WAS a poster/lurker here.> Not me. Unless you're a character in the Star Wars Universe, most people go out of the way to negate the possibility of any connection between themselves and their alter egos. I know that if I had an alter ego, he'd probably go around telling everyone how much he can't get enough of bad Demona fanfic (and would probably also write Demona/Elisa pr0n).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I've never won an Oscar." -George Lucas.

The fact he has the balls to do all that makes him a true blue fan to me. What because he shows his love for the show a different way and has an opinion, that makes him less of a fan.

Yeah, he critizes The Journey rehash, but look at all the critisim this comment room did about the artwork. People have opinions. Love it or leave it.

Siren - [Conversations With My 13 Year Old Self (New Demona Video)]

Battle Beast> No, not maybe. You are wrong. Period.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"No one is entitled to an opinion. They are entitled to an INFORMED opinion." -Harlan Ellison

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. It was jsut my opinion. Sorry. I didn't Mean for this to be some big deal. Sorry.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Battle Beast> I dunno if a so called casual fan would dress up and do what this guy is doing. Even a lot of so called hardcore fans wouldn't do that.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

MYTHBUSTERS> I was watching an episode today on Discovery where they were trying to bust myths about safes, finger scanners, and body heat alarms. At one point, the guy... I don't remember his name off hand... the NON bald guy... was working on his computer when, I spied, in the cakground, a Broadway toy! It was definatly a Broadway toy, the blue-green skin, the fat belly... I recognized it instantly! If you see this episode, look for it!!

Greg B> I didn't mean to annoy you, Greg, but sorry for speaking my mind... And no, I still don't think he's a regular fan or what ever kind of fan you call him. Hard Core fans are ones who visit this and other sites and keep the show alive. I am probably talking about hardcore fans, not casual fans, I guess.

I happen to LOVE the comic, even IF it is a re-hash. and I LOVE the artwork, no matter what it looks like. I am just happy to HAVE A COMIC, and, corredct me if I'm wrong, but I have NEVER put down the comic in ANY WAY.

As for what am I doing? I email Disney to put out the other DVDs. REGULARLY. I Buy the DVDs that are out for presents and have done so many times. I go to Comic shows and toy conventions and spread the word there. I wear my Gargoyles shirt, and when someone mentions it, I let them know what's available. I've emailed Ultimate Disney several times asking to put something about Gargoyles not selling on their page.

I have TWO COPIES of each DVD and EACH comic. I buy more than one to drive up sales.

I do what I can in my little corner of Canada and Cyberspace.

That's all I will say about that. I didn't mean to start some big brew-ha ha. Sorry.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

I agree. Not only did the guy go to the effort of recording a video and editing it, he also made quite a funny costume. Definitely constructive for Gargoyles. Thumbs up!
Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]

Apparently SLG has gone digital. Will there be digital Garg comics in our future? More at the link.
Scott Iskow - [smiskow at gmail dot com]

BATTLE BEAST> Oh, stop playing the "us fans" card. He buys the comic, the DVDs, likes the show, and is spreading the word. Makes him a fan in my book. Hell, just liking the show makes someone a fan.

And you know what, I also was annoyed that #1 and #2 were a re-hash of "The Journey", a lot of people were. I understand why, but it still annoyed me a little. Guess I'm not an "us fan" either.

"IS he for the comic? Against it?"

Well, he bought it, he gave it a positive review. Call me an idiot, but that makes me sound like he's for it.

"and what's with that costume???"

It's a gimic. Check out his other reviews, he always has costumes.

Hey, ever been to a Gathering? People wear costumes there, too. Guess they're not "us fans".

Say what you will, but this guy is out there SPREADING THE WORD, and reaching an wide audience based on the hits his videos seem to get. What exactly are you doing to spread the word?

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"No one is entitled to an opinion. They are entitled to an INFORMED opinion." -Harlan Ellison

YouTube> I really, really wish my system had the capacity to handle it properly so I could see what you guys are all talking about. I really feel like I'm missing out on a lot everytime somebody mentions YouTube.

*sighs*

Purplegoldfish> Anime in English dubbing? The hell?? This guy you're talking about cannot be serious...

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore Me!" - Venture Bros.

YOUTUBE VIDEO GUY> I think he's an idiot. IS he for the comic? Against it? and what's with that costume??? The turning to stone thing was interesting, but I don't think he's a poster here at all. He'd have a much different view of the whole situation, I think.

He mentioned that "the comic" is ignoring the Goliath Chronicles. That is partly true; GREG himself is ignoring them.

And he seemed annoyed about having #1 and #2 be a rehash of "The Journey." Us fans don't mind it AT RLL, Right? We undestand WHY Greg choose to do it.

I'd really be surprised if it WAS a poster/lurker here.

The guy seems just too weird to me. But it's only my opinion. Don't meen to offend anyone.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Labyrinth girl: I too am very curious about her. There's gotta be a reason her name was left out which leads me to think she's related to someone we know. It would be pretty anti-climatic if we find out later she just has some random name that doesn't mean anything.
I also wonder what she was going to says to Al-"It's not that-" before she's interrupted. Actually, I just realized that the two times we are about to get info on her, the "doorbell" interrupts. Not sure if that means anything.

I doubt she's related to the Mazas since talon didn't recognize her.
Here's a few of my theories of who she is and her role in in the series:
-She's a relative of Captain Chavez(possibly her daughter), or a relative of Morgan, or possibly a relative of Xanatos.
-She's a member of the Illuminati or works for Thailog
-She'll become a mutate (Claw needs a girlfriend heheh)
-She's the future mother of a certain adopted child (kind of out there but it did enter my mind)
-She's just some random chick who becomes a member of the labyrinth.

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny

Sorry to double post, but I want to clarify.

I'm not looking for someone to give the definitive correct answer, because only Greg knows. I'm just interested in opinions and speculation.

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Suggested topic for this week's discussion: What is the significance of the name of the girl in the labyrinth? There must be some reason that Al was interrupted just as he was introducing her. If she was a completely new nobody named Jane Smith, why not just say that? Greg is intentionally keeping her name a secret from us in #3, but why? She's a new character, but is she perhaps related to someone we know? What are your thoughts?
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

I'd order the comic from SLG but their shipping cost is higher than Amazon, and I'm already ordering a different book from them. I'm still very frustrated though that the shipping time is given as 5 weeks.

I asked the comic shop near school if they had Gargoyles, and they hadn't even heard of it.

Anonymous

Wow. Once again, I'm glad this guy is on our side. After listening to some of his theories, I'm wondering if the guy behind the mask is secretly a longtime poster/lurker here. A few of his more "colorful" theories (like the Illuminati wanting the gargoyles destroyed, or all that talk about Elisa's region of insanity) might be something to throw people off the scent. But I've been wrong before.

Patrick: Well, I simply said a soul. Didn't say I'd use mine. Location's actually not the issue. They'll be outside of DC, if I remember. Rather, it's the ticket cost when I've already got a bunch of stuff lined up. But we'll see.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"By your hand, I've awakened. Bear this honor in my name." -Dream Theater ("Under a Glass Moon")

Greg has mentioned that #6 is going to be the only story to be oneshot so far. I wonder if that will be The Avalon World Tour Story featuring Coldstone. You know, the story planned for Marvel Comics?

Anyone else think so?

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

Warcrafter-Oh geeze, I was waiting for this guy. Kind of a lame review, he just rambles. It's also kind of obvious he doesn't have former knowledge about the double date story. The bit with elisa about elisa laying an egg is pretty funny.

oh, and this is so lame:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4u6plWRQfo
This person is posting the awakening episodes and saying that it's an anime with english dubbing...WTF? I tried to leave a comment but youtube isn't working too well it seems.

Sah: It actually annoys me when people refer to gargoyles as a kids show. Yeah it was marketed to kids back in the day, but it speaks to every age group. I can't see how young kids can understand all the complexities of some of the storylines and characters, and the characters are all adults (no annoying precocious school kids-yay!) who deal with adult issues and situations. I certainly appreciate the show a lot more now than I did when I watched it ten years ago. In fact, I like it more because now I can understand and appreciate it more. There's a lot of action, true. But I think what most people remember about it are the complex characters and relationships.
When I think of Kid's shows, I think of "Care bears" and "Pokemon," and "Dragon Tales". The only thing Gargoyles has in common with these shows is that they're animated.
I can't help but wonder if the show was live action with the same characters and situations-but with guys in elaborate costumes or something-who would the target audience be? And honestly, there have been so many fantasy/action tv shows geared towards adults that I have found much more immature and unrealistic and predictable than Gargoyles.

BTW Sah, I'm not arguing or debating with you or anything. This is just always something I've felt strongly about so I'm just rambling :)

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny

Look who's back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53opB8LDQFI

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

Asatira...The comics shouldn't be a problem...will try to find them perhaps as soon as this comming weekend. I live in Houston, so they gotta be here somewhere. I used to watch Gargoyles on Toondisney...I found it a bit childish..I'm 33, about to turn 34, but I loved the fantasy aspect of it, and how the charactures were so well develloped and not clear cut. I thought that the things the show illustrated in some aspects had to go over most kids heads, like all the depth to Demona's character and what caused her to "fall from grace" as it were(not to mention the plots within plots). It wasn't the typical kids show, yet it was still clearly geared towards kids with all the action, conflict, and gadgits. But still, an unusual show with an interesting premise and great lessons to be learned, especially about tollerance for those who are different/have different beliefs and the ability to change. Most importantly, it seemd to show the importance of growth as individuals on the paths we are on both as individuals and as communites. Such a shame it didn't make it as a show. I didn't even catch it till several years after it had been cancelled, just three years ago. And then it used to be on toon disney all the time, now it is gone. oops. But, I am very glad to hear about the comic and curious to see if it is less kidsy and a bit more mature or what, either way, it should be good, cause I still found plenty of intersting things with the cartoon. This community seems like a friendly bunch...was here a few years back when I first found out about the cartoon. Posted a question on Ask Greg and it must have been a year or more before he answered, but he did finally answer it. Greg Wesiman seems really good to the fans, but then again, he must really like this project and so of course enjoys others interest in it as well. It really is a shame that that show didn't stay. I think it is important for kids to see different peoples and heir cultures as important and valuble in and of themselves. Especially in this day and age when still so many people aren't being treated right by those in power. oh well. Kinda a rant, but I don't normally post like this anyhow.
Sah

Sah> do what you can. Definately buy the comic, and see about getting the DVDs when you can. None of us are trying to bankrupt any (potential) fans.
Asatira

Phoenician, thanks for the info on the comic and the explination for Patrics web address...didn't try to click on the name. At current I am a college student and probably won't be able to afford any of the DVDs that are out for a while still to come, but I am pretty sure I can mannage a comic under 4 dollars.
Sah

Sah: Patrick's name is the web address . . . he simply uses the email slot to point it out.

As for the comic, I beleive its been stated that the comic is going to continue being released until further notice and that Dan Vado of SLG has every intention of renewing their contract with Disney when that time comes. Correct me guys if I'm off anywhere above.

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Just out of curiosity, anyone within a decent distance from Houston going to the Gathering? Also, is the comic in good standing or at any risk of facing the axe like the series?
Oh, Patrick, is the Gathering 2007 supposed to be a web link or e-mail address? I thought it was a web link but when I clicked on it it loaded up as an e-mail address but it didn't look very e-mail addressable.

Sah

HoE > Ah... I got lucky. I happen to live in the suburbs of one of the concert cities. But I'm also going to L.A. to see the very last show of the tour, too. Flying out there in the fall is why I'll be driving to the Gathering this summer.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"They told her mom she's not to worry, 'cause some you lose and some you lose." - Genesis, "Inside and Out"

Ah, say no more. I quote Jethro Tull's 20th Anniversary Anthology in here all the time (yes, contrary to popular belief, there are people who can love Jethro Tull that much), a compilation that contains craploads of unreleased material, and that I only know one person who owns. I actually had to burn my copy from him.

As far as the tour is concerned, I'll have to see how much the Gathering, my cousin's wedding the weekend after, and the annual family trip to the beach house at the end of July are going to set me back. I imagine tickets would cost a soul.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Look, that beam came from space. You don't own space, so stop acting like you do!" -Master Shake.

HoE > "Pigeons" wasn't on a regular album, but it can be found in the box set "Genesis Archive 2: 1976-1992." More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_the_pigeon

BTW, are you going to catch the Turn It On Again tour?

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Who congregate around Trafalger Square taking potshots at the tourists?" - Genesis, "Pigeons"

Patrick: <Better yet, the con staff could take dictation of con journals during the con.>

Hey man, my thoughts are my children. No way in shit I'd ever trust anyone else to handle them. No offense, anyone else. ( ;

By the way, what album is "Pigeons" off of? Never even heard of that one.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Look, that beam came from space. You don't own space, so stop acting like you do!" -Master Shake.

Patrick...I got it right off the http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/ main page....under Other Resources on the Internet....then right under The Gathering of the Gargoyles is where it says Houston TX right after Orlando FL.
Sah

Just saw the tentative schedule for the Gathering and man, it's a pity I haven't saved enough yet to go this year . . . here's hoping 2008's location works out.

Blis: All I SHOULD say is that eventually you'll probably be able to purchase a $3.50 comic every other month. And then you can say the comics count.

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Jergen> For me the comic books don't cout because I cannot recive them. I mean I CAN get them, but I can't purchase them. My grandfather has done enough to get me all three seasons for half a $100.
Blis
" I have a signature" - Blis

Sah > Where did you find the blurb posted that said Houston?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]

Thanks Leo. I can be a bit slow. Wandered around on the site a bit. I get the feeling you guys go there and goof off a bit and just have fun. Sounds like a good convention. Now for a real curiosity question that may just get some funny looks. Do any people go to this con who think of themselves as otherkin? If you don't know what that means, then it really doesn't matter, as explaining it to anyone who isn't otherkin would definately get funny looks.
Sah

Well, I've just got myself registered at the hotel. One thing down for the Gathering. :)
Asatira

Blis: Does a comicbook count? If so, we've already got 'em. If not... well, I wouldn't count on it anytime soon, but if you really want to see Gargoyles on TV again, the best bet is to support what we've already got- namely, the comic. That's where our eggs are right now, and if it flops, we'll probably never get another chance as good.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Do any of you think that Disney might make more seasons of Gargoyles?
I cirtainly hope so! :)

Blis
" I have a signature!" - Blis

((sorry for double post))

And there's a tentative schedule posted now, too ;)

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2007/files/Schedule_01.html

Leo

Sah>" Any info on any web sites as to what are the activities and events for planned gatherings,"

I will now refer you to the link Patrick has behind his name in all his posts:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2007/

:P

Leo

OK...read through some of the logs for previous gatherings, and get that there are different pannles on things, and some indications that voice actors may come as guests to the gatherings, and that Greg Weisman is a regular. About how many people on average attend? I assume that the more recent ones have more attendies that the first few in New York for example. Any info on any web sites as to what are the activities and events for planned gatherings, a sort of schedule, or who is going to attend/present, such as special speakers etc? Again, my only con experince has been Transformers cons and a few random anime cons that I atende to help with someone's booth, so I may be completely off in my thinking of what this con is like if it is a lot smaller, and more "fannish" for lack of a better word.
Sah

Okay, I'm working on my Father's computer since mine is quite ill-so bare with any spelling mistakes as it's difficult for me to use a computer that isn't set up for my lousy eyesight.

I just thought i'd update you on my comic book situation as I promised I would. After ordering 3 copies of issue 3 from SLG on wednasday, March 28th and it officially shipping on the 30th, the comics arrived yesterday, April 9th. Keep in mind that there was a holiday in there on friday to deal with mail wise-so I'm prety happy having finally gotten to read it. I'll give my comments on t once I get my computer back(I'm sure you can all haardly wait...not).

Wingless

thanks for the info on searching ask Greg....looked there before but never noticed that.....probably cause I wasn't looking for it.

This was what gave me the idea a gathering had been in Houston...

The Gathering of the Gargoyles
The Gathering is a yearly Gargoyles convention. Previous locations have included Montreal, Quebec; New York City, NY; Los Angeles, CA; Orlando, FL, Houston, TX, and Williamsburg, VA. If you'd like more info about it, or even join us in the festivities, click on the link above to find out more information.

So deceptive. Thanks for setting it straight though.

Sah

Better yet, the con staff could take dictation of con journals during the con. They surely don't have anything better to do, right? :P

The Gathering has never been in Houston, but it's been in Dallas. Here's a quick history:
1997 & 1998 -New York City, NY
1999 - Dallas, TX
2000 - Orlando, FL
2001 - Los Angeles, CA
2002 - Williamsburg, VA
2003 - New York City, NY
2004 - Montreal, QC Canada
2005 - Las Vegas, NV
2006 - Los Angeles, CA

73 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Who congregate around Trafalger Square taking potshots at the tourists?" - Genesis, "Pigeons"

Todd: It would appear we've had the question answered.

Tony: I don't know. You'd the think the Product Descriptions would sort of put that fear to rest. That, and the fact that they're numbers 1, 2, and 3. But I've been wrong before.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Damn, Hell makes a yummy bagel." -Johnny the Homicidal Maniac.

Filthy humans! Your arrogance will cost you dearly. I plot the destruction of your worthless race, and you idly dare to maunder about my measurements. Go oogle the wingless, atrophied and weak females of your own worthless species. Your feeble imagination will not render the sudden death I have in store for you all a bit less painful.
Demona - [d dot destine at nightstone dot com]
Omnes legeti! In nocte die ad saxum commutate dum hic pagina reticulum super nubes ascendat!

Sah - <What are they like for those who have gone? > The best place to look is read Ask Greg archives for Gathering Journals. Those gathering journals give each person's experience. My only request would be, if the con had the money for it, to have a computer where people could type their gathering journals and turn them during gathering. Barring that, incorporating a small pamplet to keep a gathering journal would be nice and then at the end of the convention having somebody pick up those pamplets to transcribe journals would be nice.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Hi again. I am curious about the con. The only convention I have been to was a transformers one, which was pretty big. I assume this one is a bit smaller. What are they like for those who have gone? Any guest speakers or anything like that? Also, when was it in Houston? I saw on one of the links it was in Houston a while back.
Sah

Thanks for debunking that old wives' tale about the rice. I know that my sister is getting married this October and maybe the Catholic church uses birds as an excuse, because the real reason is that throwing rice is a pagan tradition. So I guess I picked a bad tradition to drive home my point, but it doesn't matter. Let's move on.

I like your videos, Siren. I'm not usually a fan of music placed over a video but I really like "Gargoyles Femme Fatales (Cell Block Tango)" and I enjoyed the "Hunter's Moon Trailer". I just recently watched "Gargoyles Season 1 DVD Fan-Made Commercial". I liked it. Great job!

Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Matthew 16:26

Tony> Actually, that is an overblown myth about pigeons exploding from rice. There is NO fact to it. So its not really a good example for tradition :P
http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/birdrice.asp

Sorry, not trying to be a smartass, but its kinda a personal mission to stamp out useless myths and urban legends to hopefully try to make people a little less gulliable to what their grandma or friend at school told them.

Siren - [Click my name for my music videos!]

*enters chuckling at Tony's response to G. Bishansky*

Demona's measurements> You mean this hasn't been answered definitively yet?

Sah> I haven't had a problem finding issues 2 & 3 at comic book shops (bought #1 at G'06). The large ones had a bunch, the small ones didn't carry it.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music Selection: Full Metal Alchemist OST 1

My guess on Demona's reaction to discovering a group of humans trying to figure out her measurements??

Something to the equivalent of "Kim Possible"'s Shego frying Motor Ed, but with a Bazooka. And she'd probably blast the group more than once.

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

I don't know Demona's measurements and couldn't even begin to guess. Maybe we can ask Greg to do a Gargoyles Cross-section book.

Did anyone notice on Amazon.com, that Gargoyles #1 is listed as a "Paperback", Gargoyles #2 is listed as a "Comic" and Gargoyles #3 is listed as a "Pamphlet"? Does this bother anyone else than me?

Well, I e-mailed Amazon.com yesterday about changing the bindings of #1 and #3 and the two responses I received back said, "Action: Your update has been accepted and processed. It will appear online within the next two to three business days."

So I know it's miniscule, but hopefully this correction will help those people new to the comic. It should help them identify that these are all comics and with luck, increase sales slightly. I don't think people new or unfamiliar with the series will want to pay $3.50 for something labelled as a pamphlet. :P

Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]

Todd, that would be a rather interesting topic of discussion. I think she'd be confused and then angry. Then she'd probably hurt the person, if they're not nearby hurt some other random human.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

Someone is boycotting the Top Ten? Now I've seen everything.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

HARVESTER - Personally, I'd rather discuss what Demona would say and do if she found out that a group of humans were talking about her measurements. :)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Abby: Happy belated!

Tony: Actually, the Top Ten does actually mean something around here. This one time, I missed the Top Ten, and they took off my fingernails with a spoon. And fed them to me. Tasted a little like chicken. ( ;

But seriously, want to take a stab at Demona's measurements? That's always fun. Oh, and Friday is Coupon Day.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"This bar is necessary to the moral order. This is a sinkpit of corruption and vice, a fleshpot of iniquity. You think salvation can function without damnation? You think virtue can exist without sin?" -Philip K. Dick ("Eye In the Sky")

Greg B., et al.>I may be new to the "Comment Room", but I'm not new to this site. I discovered this site back in 2004 after it was mentioned on the commentary of the Gargoyles Season 1 DVD.

In 2004, I used to post in the chat room, but no one ever responded to chat live so I figured it was a waste of time and didn't visit the site too often after that, maybe once every couple of months. What I wanted was to discuss Gargoyles LIVE with people. I didn't have time to "comment" on it, and come back later to check out if anyone else commented.

I didn't know you and "others" get together to discuss how I'm coming off as a n00b. Thanks. I'm honored and a little embarrassed. ;)

1) I know the Top Ten has nothing to do with social status. I was being kind of a p**** about it, because people do that "1st, 2nd, 3rd" BS on other forums I used to post at, and I think it's stupid. I don't care about tradition. It used to be a tradition to throw rice at a newly married couple, but we don't do that anymore because birds can potentially eat the rice and die. So far be it from me to be part of the tradition, but just because I comment here doesn't mean I need to support it.

2. I don't take full credit for the listing on Amazon, and I was not informed "it was going to to be done anyway". Did you know? If you did, why are you withholding this info from us? Snippet from my Amazon.com e-mail from Kishore S.: "I will be sure to pass your message on to the appropriate department in our company for consideration. Customer feedback like yours is very important in helping us continue to improve the selection and service we provide."

So I feel I helped push it along and get it listed sooner, since I did NOT know it was going to be on Amazon. I don't pretend to know what I don't know. All I know is that I didn't see it on Amazon and I did something about it.

3. I'm glad you're working your butt off. But what progress has been made concerning Gargoyles Season 2 Vol 2? Has it been released? Is it in production as we speak? No.

It has been mentioned in this room that some people are waiting to buy S2V1 when S2V2 is released. Obviously, they don't understand that they need to buy S2V1 to get S2V2 released. Will they be convinced to invest in half of a whole, when there is no promise of the other half? Probably not.

Would you give me money for two tires for your vehicle and then wait years to potentially buy the other two tires to enjoy driving your vehicle years later OR would you rather buy all four tires at once and enjoy driving right away with no waiting? People don't want to invest in only half of something.

What I've been currently doing is e-mailing Buena Vista to try and convince them that releasing S2V2 will increase sales of S2V1. I agree that "cold, hard dollars" will get us the S2V2 DVD, but they already have my money and it was my decision to spend it. Just like it's their decision whether to invest in S2V2 and distribute it. I'm tired of waiting, and they have my money so it's my prerogative to share my thoughts with the company since it's apparent that no one else is doing anything. If they are, more power to them, but if they don't share it here, then I don't know. Again, I don't pretend to know what I don't know.

4. That's your opinion. I don't agree and have my trepidations.

Sorry if I may come off aggravated, frustrated, and impatient, but just like Nintendo and Star Wars, waiting for new Gargoyles media makes me aggravated, frustrated, and impatient. Thanks for the welcome. Let's talk about some Gargoyles.

Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]

HoE > "So, there ISN'T any heroin stashed in the #1 spot?"

Perhaps not, but I'm happy to share lots of freshly-baked chocolate birthday cake (it was actually yesterday, but I was away with family and friends).

But I did have a little time this past weekend to review issue #3 again. I'm also eager to see "Bad Guys" come out.

Abby
"Boy, the city sure is different when it snows." "Yeah. It's colder." - "The Price"

So, there ISN'T any heroin stashed in the #1 spot?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"This bar is necessary to the moral order. This is a sinkpit of corruption and vice, a fleshpot of iniquity. You think salvation can function without damnation? You think virtue can exist without sin?" -Philip K. Dick ("Eye In the Sky")

Sah> The comic is intended to be bi-monthly, but for various reasons the second and third issue were delayed. If all goes well, the comic should be coming out every two months from now on. And once the miniseries gets started, there will be a "Gargoyles" comic out every month.

Comics on Amazon> Honestly, I don't think either Amazon, Diamond (the main distributor of comics), or the publishers themselves are really equipped to sell single issue comics through Amazon. From a couple of quick searches, I don't think the big two (Marvel and DC) really do it. Most of the single issues available from them via Amazon are indiviudals selling single copies of particular issues through the site. Frankly, Amazon seems like a pretty bad option when it comes to single issue comics. I do sympathise with people who lack a local store, but there are other online options, such as slgcomic.com, linked to the left, or demolitioncomcis.com, which was the first place I found in a quick Google search that had the latest issue.

Demonskrye

Tony> You're new here, and we welcome you. But, since you got here, you've been coming off like a n00b who knows everything. I'm sure that's not how you mean to come off, but that's how I, and others, have been seeing it.

1. As Kyt said, the Top Ten is a tradition, been going on here since at least 1997. It has nothing to do with anyone's social status in here.

2. You did not get ALG and Amazon to list Gargoyles #3 on Amazon, it was going to be done anyway. Don't take credit for it.

3. I am sure you didn't mean to come off like this, but honestly, last week you seemed to imply that the fandom wasn't doing much to get Season 2, Volume 2 released. Newsflash, we've been around for a long time before you showed up. We want it released as badly as you do, and we've been working our butts off to get it.

And, I appreciate the initiative, believe me, I called WDHE too, and let them know I wanted S2V2. But, honestly, at this point, raising the sales of the DVDs already out are going to be what get us S2V2. All the e-mails, phone calls and letter writing campaigns will never equal cold, hard dollars. The e-mails, phone calls, letter writing campaigns, and, oh yes, CONVENTIONS, are what got us the first DVD. And decent sales for the first DVD got us the second DVD. We want that third DVD, it needs to sell more.

4. "Bad Guys" will be great in black & white, and it will be easier for SLG to make a profit. Printing in color is much more expensive, and I want them to make enough of a profit to do another spin-off afterwards. And yes, it will be well drawn. Karine Charlebois is pencilling, and Stephanie Lostimolo is doing the tones. You have nothing to worry about.

Welcome to the CR.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

Tony-- The "first ten" countdown is just tradition. Nothing to do with status or feeling high and mighty. It's just something fun that's been going on for years. :) Chill.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

I haven't been here in a while, and still learning about the comic. I live in Houston, so it shouldn't be hard to find, but I am curious how often it is released? I mean, is this a monthly issue or something less frequent? Also, is it easy to find at comic shops or is it better to get it off line? I understand there are three issues out at current. On a side note that is one easy code to read.
Sah

Argh, that was me. The computer at home is not usable at the moment, so I'm at school.
Vaevictis Asmadi

Tony, thank you for emailing SLG and Amazon! Honestly I don't understand why SLG waits so long to put it on Amazon, or why Amazon says you have to wait up to 5 weeks before they will ship it. I'm seriously thinking I won't bother to buy #3 until May or even July.
Anonymous

Oops. Got the meaning of your message mixed up. Well, if the person who wins it is someone in this room, I'd be curious if the developers talk about what they did to "enhance" their brains' creative centers.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"This bar is necessary to the moral order. This is a sinkpit of corruption and vice, a fleshpot of iniquity. You think salvation can function without damnation? You think virtue can exist without sin?" -Philip K. Dick ("Eye In the Sky")

Greg B: Let us know if it says what the developers were smoking. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"This bar is necessary to the moral order. This is a sinkpit of corruption and vice, a fleshpot of iniquity. You think salvation can function without damnation? You think virtue can exist without sin?" -Philip K. Dick ("Eye In the Sky")

I don't think you need to apologize to anyone, KingCobra_582, everyone else below you who did not add meaningful comments were spamming as well. But I guess they are just excited about a new week and being closest to the first comment gives them high status virtually and socially.
Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]

Patrick's right. We DO have special rates (the ones listed on the G07 web site) set with the hotel, and these rates do not have a cutoff date as long as the hotel has rooms available. But yeah.. don't wait until the last minute. Pigeon Forge gets really busy in the summer with conventions and events all over, making "no vacancy" signs a common sight.
As far as the bed situation goes, from what I know, there's still the option of 1 bed or 2. (My friends and I were just there in March and were given that option.) But they are going through a rennovation process, so perhaps they've decided to change that in their regular rooms? Either way, I'm contacting our sales rep to ask about it this week.

Jurgan & Yami - I hope you just got a temp/new person there, and I'm sorry for any confusion or hassle that was caused. If you aren't able to straighten it out and get the correct rates, please email me. I'll either have things corrected through our rep, or put you in contact with her so that it all gets straightened out.

Same with anyone else having issues with getting our listed room rates. Just shoot me an email and we'll straighten that out.

Y2Hecate - [y2hecate at gmail dot com]
~Nikki/Hecate~

10th!
BrooksBabe
"Those aren't tumors, you moron, that's your finger on the lens!"

Sorry for the triple (including this one) post. I thought I'd lost the connection.

Ack.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore Me!" - Venture Bros.

Ninth!!! (Close one)
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

8th in the name of Vid The Kid and I!
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore Me!" - Venture Bros.

8th in the name of Vid The Kid and I!
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore Me!" - Venture Bros.

Seventh!
Kaylle

SIXTH, in the name of me and Chameleongirl!

...though lately I feel like my "in the name of" declarations have been usurped by misunderstanding. ;P (It's a JOKE, people! Humor! Ha ha!)

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

fine, fifth
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

fourth in the name of IWDWRAKP
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

4th in the name of the 4th gargoyle comic coming out on time
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Third!
Asatira

Got an obscure "Gargoyles" collectable on ebay. The strategy guide for the Sega Genesis game.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300099999011

I haven't seen one at any Gathering auction, and there's an interview with the game developers in there.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

First!
Alex Garg