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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending June 16, 2008

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I bet on myself!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Betting on the last post of the week is pointless. I noticed Kids WB didn't advertise Saturday's Spectular Spiderman as a "season finale"
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

So does anyone want to bet who gets the last post of the week. -1 I guess!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3

12 days left until The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

::Drops a pin::
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Dave moved in when I was ten. So I already built up a ten year Dad-Callous but Dave was still fresh, soft and pink so I kind of became like Dave's Secret Service. Except I had to protect a really dumb guy from danger. Wow, that's exactly the Secret Service." -Christopher Titus

Thanks, Bishansky.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Patrick> Cheers!
Algernon
"Note to self: give naked dictation more often. The ideas seem to flow more freely." -Norman Osborn

TODD> Romita's Pizza is a nod to John Romita Sr, who was the second artist on "Amazing Spider-Man" starting with #39 back in the 60s. He was the successor to Steve Ditko. He drew the story where the Green Goblin unmasked Spider-Man; he was the first to draw Mary Jane; he was the first to draw the Kingpin... Romita Sr. did a lot. His son, John Romita Jr. is also a legendary comic book artist (designed the Hobgoblin in the 80s). So, yeah, a nod this father and son comic book art duo.

And yep, that is the very same Jennifer L. Anderson.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Dave moved in when I was ten. So I already built up a ten year Dad-Callous but Dave was still fresh, soft and pink so I kind of became like Dave's Secret Service. Except I had to protect a really dumb guy from danger. Wow, that's exactly the Secret Service." -Christopher Titus

*SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN SPOILERS *

I also enjoyed the season finale. A few parts that particularly stood out to me:

Spidey, after foiling the robbery at the start, making it clear to Tombstone that the deal was off - and then, after Venom shows up, Tombstone comments that he's going to have to start locking the windows.

Spidey getting caught in Venom's web with the words "Guess who?" written in it, like a dark version of "Charlotte's Web".

Peter telling Flash Thompson that he was right to tell him (Peter) off for the jerky way he'd been acting, to which Flash says, "Don't mention it" - and then makes it clear that he literally means it.

Peter's disastrous attempt at cooking Thanksgiving dinner. (By the way, Bishansky, since you mentioned it - what's the significance of the "Romita's Pizza"?)

The Gwen Stacy abduction and rescue - I even wondered if Gwen would survive (after hearing about her death in the comics). It was a great touch to have Flash and his football buddies come to her aid. (And I liked the comic relief moment where Flash's talking about King Kong, and doesn't immediately catch on to Gwen being in danger, as Mary Jane does.)

Eddie's envy of Peter becomes fully revealed - his bitterness that Peter had a loving uncle and aunt to take him in, which Brock didn't.

And finally, Peter getting rid of the gene cleanser in the grand dramatic moment - and then having to clean up the mess it made in the sink! Another truly Peter Parker moment.

My congratulations to Greg Weisman and the rest of the production team for a job well done. Incidentally, Bishansky, is the Jennifer Anderson you mentioned the same that we know as Crzy Demona?

* SPOILERS END *

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

I've passed it on through convention channels. :)
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"My father was a beekeeper before me. His father was a beekeeper before him. I want to walk in their footsteps, and their footsteps were like this: Aaaah! Aaaah! I'm covered in bees!" - Eddie Izzard

I found this (http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10718) in the Ask Greg queue. It's a request for an interview with Greg for a comic news-site. I was just wondering if it would be possible for someone to forward it on to Greg?

I'm familiar with Alan Kristler's work and think it would be neat to see this happen, but given the time it takes Greg to answer questions it could by months before he even sees this.

Algernon
"Note to self: give naked dictation more often. The ideas seem to flow more freely." -Norman Osborn

"Nature Vs. Nurture"
So, a couple of days ago, I listened to a podcast interview of, perhaps my favorite Spider-Man writer, Roger Stern. Stern is perhaps best known for creating the original Hobgoblin (Roderick Kingsley), as well as the classic "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" story. He was also in the brainstorming sessions for the black costume story back in the 80s, and as a joke, suggested "it's alive." Stern then proceeded to apologize for Venom. As a non-Venom fan, that was very nice to hear.

So, drum roll...

I liked this. I liked it a lot. I actually liked Venom. I didn't expect to like Venom in this. I wasn't prepared to like Venom in this, but I did. I think that as long as this series avoids the traps the character in the comics fell into, he should be fine. So, no over-exposure. None of that "Lethal Protector" anti-hero nonsense, and we may have a winner here. He wasn't my favorite of the villains this season, but I liked him. Oh, and no Carnage. For the love of all that is holy, please, no Carnage.

So, in a sense, I think I finally get this version of Eddie Brock. Like he said, his and Peter's parents may have died together, but Peter had Aunt May and Uncle Ben. Eddie had no one, and from his point of view, Peter came off looking like this incredibly spoiled, petulant child who took all the good things he had for granted, and that was before he, from his point of view, screwed Connors over. I also think, that with the Connors' he was trying to fill a void, which is why he took it so damn hard. He wanted his own Aunt May and Uncle Ben.

I did enjoy the way Spidey beat Venom... right out of "Amazing Spider-Man #317." Nice homages to Venom's first two appearances in the comics, back when he was tolerable. Before Marvel decided to kill the golden goose... so to speak. The fanboy in me wishes that the Green Goblin was the first to unmask Spidey and use that to make his life a living Hell, but I am hoping for that in season two.

"We know who you love the most," yup, because we often tend to be the last people to realize when we're in love with someone. Peter/Gwen was built up really well over these thirteen episodes. Very subtly. I am sure some might complain that it came out of no where, but it really didn't. From my experience, a lot of people don't do subtle too well. I am also sure that the Mary Jane fans are upset, but to them I say, have patience. Gwen is the First Love. That is an important aspect of the mythos. While, MJ might be the one he is ultimately destined for, I think previous adaptions dropped the ball on it. She was The One in the 90s toon (with a tiny bit of Felicia Hardy as competition) and the movies declared MJ to be The One since birth. They'll get there, they just shouldn't be there yet. But in the mean time, I am definitely looking forward to seeing where and how things go with Gwen. The Gwen romance has never been done anywhere since the 1970s.

Oh, and I loved the "Romita's Pizza" nod.

As for the first season as a whole? The best "Spider-Man" we have gotten in any medium in a very, very long time. The movies weren't this good. The comics haven't been anywhere this close in a while either. I knew when this was announced that this series was in great hands. When you have the mind that created "Gargoyles", perhaps the best animated series of the last three decades, how can you go wrong?

Overall though, I think as far as this season goes, Tombstone was the greatest surprise. A nobody character in the comics, who I never cared about, is now a major character. A real break-out star. The three-episode Green Goblin arc was perhaps the height of it all for me, though I think that will also be a lot better in hindsight once we have a lot more Goblin material. As far as single episodes go, I think "Group Therapy" did it for me with their portrayal of Dr. Octopus.

But the real treat was having fun and admiring the work of two of my best friends. Greg Weisman, of course; and Post Production Assistant, Jennifer L. Anderson. Excellent work, you two. Excellent work, indeed. I wish I had the time and space to name everyone who contributed to the series, because this was great and I don't want to leave anyone out.

It's a shame to be getting off the roller coaster, but I can't wait to get back on it in the next few months. I can't wait for season two.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Dave moved in when I was ten. So I already built up a ten year Dad-Callous but Dave was still fresh, soft and pink so I kind of became like Dave's Secret Service. Except I had to protect a really dumb guy from danger. Wow, that's exactly the Secret Service." -Christopher Titus

Nature vs. Nurture

I loved this episode. I loved the 'creepy thriller' vibe the scenes at the parade had going. (With Spider-man searching the crowds.) And I loved each character's moment, I liked Liz, I liked Gwen (I really liked Gwen in this episode), I liked Mary Jane, I liked Peter and Flash, I liked Rand, I even liked Eddie. Well, no, I didn't like Eddie, but I understood Eddie.

Which is quite a leap from '*grumblegrumble*Eddie's an idiot.*Grumblegrumble*'. I got it in this one. The Connors are his Aunt May and Uncle Ben, and Peter was the one guy he thought he could really count on and depend upon. And then Peter hurt his Uncle Ben and Aunt May, and the symbiote manipulated him into being hateful and desiring nothing but solitude. After his 'Aunt May' turned him away (because he thought more of their relationship than was actually true), and after it seemed like Peter was no longer worthy of his friendship. A lot of the stuff in this episode made more sense, Peter calling Eddie to apologize about his job, after being responsible for him losing it. Eddie's comment about Peter saving Gwen to 'be the hero', clearly shows what he thinks of Spider-man's heroics: just another way to get glory and fame, by helping people. This was all stuff that I had considered before, of course, but for some reason it all clicked in this episode. It all made a lot more sense. I didn't need that 75 on the jerkometer anymore.

I am not a fan of the damsel in distress routine normally (even Lois Lane isn't really a 'damsel in distress' anymore), but here it kinda worked better for me. I think it was because Rand, Flash, Liz, Gloria, Mary Jane and even Sally helped out in rescuing Gwen. So she wasn't a 'damsel in distress', she was just someone who was in danger and needed helping out from her friends.

Loved the last scene too. Gwen finally works up her nerve and tells Peter how she feels (so to speak). All in the theme of 'responsibility' of course. Gwen not being able to date Peter has nothing to do with his ignorance, it has everything to do with her nervousness. She needed to take responsibility for her own feelings. And the theme of responsibility is prevalent in Eddie as well of course. He's allowed himself to be alone, because he's been too dependent on others for reassurance. He wanted the Connors to become his surrogate family, but they already had a family of their own. He wanted Peter to be his brother forever, but Peter had to grow up and branch out too. And that's Eddie's problem, really. He didn't look for another job after he lost his job at the lab. He didn't look for new friends after he 'lost' Peter. He just wallowed and wasn't proactive.

Where's Norman Osbourn to give an encouraging speech when you need him? "Man up!!"

And that really shows how different the stakes are here. With Gwen it's all about her romance with Peter. Her love of him. With Eddie it's all about his hatred, it's life or death. But both problems are equally important, because of the emotional stakes involved. It's just as important that Gwen tells Peter how she feels, as it is that Eddie kills Peter. And that's really good writing.

I did have some problems with this episode however. Nothing mind-shattering, as, as I've said before... I've enjoyed every single episode.

Problem 1 I had was that Peter still hasn't told Aunt May that he's Spider-man, but this is something that's always bothered me in any Spider-man story. The woman is supposed to be his surrogate mother, and yet he still won't be completely honest with her.

Problem 2 was that the 'Spider-man working for the Big Man' thing didn't really go anywhere, it just ended up being a set-up for Venom working for the Big Man. And now that Eddie's passed out on a roof top somewhere (was that resolved, by the way? If it was I must not have been paying close enough attention.) and the Symbiote is buried under a few feet of concrete, so that doesn't really seem to be going anywhere fast either.

But other than that, fantastic finale to a fantastic season, and I can't wait for next season. Let's hope it finds itself on a network that allows the show the same freedoms it was allowed on the KidsWB.

Aldrius
"Well it helps when you don't attack your customers!" - Dot Matrix, a financial wizard

**Spider-man spoilers**
Liquid concrete is supposed to hold the symbiote? I guess that's the best solution available, considering what's available right away. Sure hope they don't have a rainy day in that area.
**End Spider-man spoilers**

dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Antiyonder> In addition, I would direct them to YouTube or a friend with ToonDisney if they're that concerned about refreshing their memories of season two part two. Though I don't support using YouTube to watch stuff you could otherwise buy on DVD, I feel anything that isn't out on DDVD is fair game.
Demonskrye: - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Yesterday was Friday the 13th. Today is 13 days left until The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Chicago, Illinois! ZOMG!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"My father was a beekeeper before me. His father was a beekeeper before him. I want to walk in their footsteps, and their footsteps were like this: Aaaah! Aaaah! I'm covered in bees!" - Eddie Izzard

Antiyonder>The review of the trade that Greg B posted in here a few days ago might be a good start. Alternately, you could have them pick up #7 and 8, on the rationale that it's the current arc, and the best art/story combo (although maybe you don't want to mention that, hah).
Meg

So, there are some people on Toon Zone who are interested in getting the Gargoyle comics, but are hesitant to do so because the last portion of season 2 is unavailable.

Now are there any positive reviews of the comic I can point them to from readers who are casual fans or newcomers (not seeing the cartoon)?

Antiyonder

I think that Greg's right to keep his secrets - until he reveals them in the comic. The only thing that disappointed me about "Bad Guys" when reading it is that I already knew, from Greg's talks about the projected spin-off, a lot of the things that would happen in it (such as, in #2, Hunter getting Yama to join the Redemption Squad by threatening to expose the Ishimura clan). Fortunately, the numerous little character moments (such as Yama parting from Sora or Hunter meeting with Jason and Castaway in New York) made up for that, but I'd like to be surprised in the upcoming issues.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Animal Instinct> "Why should he? He has the right to keep secrets, but we have ours for sue of secrecy, though. Then again... he could sue us for not being patient. I forgot what that kind of sue is called, but all this could end up like a chain of suing. Silly ideas, huh? Honestly, I think we could have a say to the...hmm... ahwho am I kidding? I'm just being silly right now."

Check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu-6IppcvRo

Algernon
"Note to self: give naked dictation more often. The ideas seem to flow more freely." -Norman Osborn

Even though I can't make i to the Con this year, I'm still excited that it's almost finally here. I'll definitely be watching the comment room and Ask Greg for incoming Con reports
Spoonvonstup - [<-- Gargoyles Music Video Database]

Speaking of the con, does anyone happen to be friends with Peter Berdovsky or Sean Stevens? I bet they would be pretty helpful in spreading the word! :D
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini

Mara> Me too...I can't wait. This will be my third con...Maybe this time I'll actually get to see the Bad Guys Leica Reel and The Last. I've always arrived too late in the day on the first day to sign in and thus I can't go to any events until the next day...at the '06 gathering that REALLY sucked because I had a story in the Anthology and I missed the Autographs section...well I won't do that this time...I'm determined.

I had a thought...and feel free to shoot this down if you think it's dumb...but I think everybody should wear their Hot Topic Gargoyles T-Shirts on the first day of the Con. I thought it would be a great way to advertize to Chicago and to the non-con Hotel guests who we are. What do you guys think?

Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Two weeks to go and I've been in pre-con mode for more than a month! We always have such a good time at the convention.
Mara
(I'm practicing the words to all the songs I know...)

Only two weeks left to go!

14 days left until The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"My father was a beekeeper before me. His father was a beekeeper before him. I want to walk in their footsteps, and their footsteps were like this: Aaaah! Aaaah! I'm covered in bees!" - Eddie Izzard

Why should he? He has the right to keep secrets, but we have ours for sue of secrecy, though. Then again... he could sue us for not being patient. I forgot what that kind of sue is called, but all this could end up like a chain of suing. Silly ideas, huh? Honestly, I think we could have a say to the...hmm... ahwho am I kidding? I'm just being silly right now.
Animal Instinct

Ask Greg: Actually, while they're phrased rather like overenthusiastic fanboyish ideas, the actual questions are mostly picking up on themes that have been pretty well suggested in the comic -- Thailog/Shari as a dark Goliath/Elisa parallel, Thailog creating a new batch of clones, Brentwood's betrayal (okay, I guess that hasn't quite been hinted yet, but we're all anticipating it), and Thailog as Goliath's Bizarro nemesis -- it's all already there, really. I'd say these are questions masquerading as ideas, which is still pretty obnoxious. It's not like Greg's going to tell us what's going to happen!
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."

Since the Sci Fi channel is airing a marathon to coincide with The Incredible Hulk movie, I was wondering if anyone here has seen the series featuring Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno. I've seen some episodes thanks to the DVD release and Sci-Fi airing.

It's really entertaining and in my opinion seems to capture the spirit of the comics despite the differences in the story.

Incisivis> Don't think anything of it. I tend to use phrases like "It's good", "I like it" or "Nice" more than I want to.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

I found this passage in an article from the latest issue of "Realm" (a magazine about British history and historical sites). Most of it was about Mary Queen of Scots and her imprisonment in Lochleven Castle, but there was a digression near the end about earlier figures from Scotland's history visiting the region, including Macbeth:

"Recent controversy has arisen surrounding the character of the King Macbeth. Far from the monach that Shakespeare displayed as a cruel and morally inept character, it has been discovered that the true Macbeth was a respected, honourable, and confident leader."

At least we discovered that before the article came out.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Three posts each almost 12 hours apart. Yikes!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Wow, slow day in here.

15 days left until The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"My father was a beekeeper before me. His father was a beekeeper before him. I want to walk in their footsteps, and their footsteps were like this: Aaaah! Aaaah! I'm covered in bees!" - Eddie Izzard

dph_of_rules> 1) Not my hotmail, but if you search the About Me section of my website, you'll find the e-mail address that I do check.

2) I'll look into updating the page based on Robby's info.

(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
~ Anthony Tini

People would have to READ the rules in order to care about them. :P

16 days left until The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

TiniTinyTony - 1)Do you ever check your email? 2)You really need to update your website The Gargoyles Pulse. On June 2nd, Robby said gargoyles issue #9 wasn't complete. That being true, it's a given that issue #9 won't come out in June 2008, as indicated on your website. Also, as a follow-up, it's improbable that issue #9 would come out in July 2008 as indicated on your website.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Good grief! These people just don't care about the rules, do they???
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

6/11/2008

Today is my 1 year anniversary with Geisinger Health Plan, Danville, PA!

The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini

I had a new thought last night about #9. We know that Xanatos is the mastermind (on behalf of the Illuminati) behind whatever big scheme's going on in London, and it seems likely that his real goal is to abduct King Arthur rather than to take away the Stone of Destiny. That means, in turn, that #9 could see a confrontation between Arthur and Xanatos.

I wondered last evening if Xanatos might be wearing his familiar gargoyle exo-suit (knowing him, he probably had it brought over to London along with the robots - he's always prepared for these kinds of eventualities). In Arthurian legend, knights in red armor often appeared as antagonists to King Arthur and his knights (such as Sir Ironside, the Red Knight of the Red Lands in the story of Sir Gareth - Tennyson, incidentally, includes a malevolent Red Knight in his poem "The Last Tournament", who's almost an Arthurian counterpart to Castaway), and Xanatos's red gargoyle armor would make him a fine updated version of a red knight for King Arthur to face.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Greg B.> Yeah, that one's pretty bad. Whoo boy!
Asatira

Greg B.> Oh, jesus.

I'm starting to wonder how many people actually bother to read the rules before posting.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

More ideas masquerading a questions.

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10715

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Dave moved in when I was ten. So I already built up a ten year Dad-Callous but Dave was still fresh, soft and pink so I kind of became like Dave's Secret Service. Except I had to protect a really dumb guy from danger. Wow, that's exactly the Secret Service." -Christopher Titus

Samuel> Yeah, they're showing. I wouldn't be replying to you if they weren't.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Are my posts not showing?
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?

I also like movies.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
~ Anthony Tini

Greg- I know and understand that. Movies and novels are almost never the exact same. I liked the novels of Dracula and Frankenstein better than an movie bases on them.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Yeah, I was probably over generalizing when I said Stoker started romanticizing vampires. It's just that his work has become the iconic starting point for most western vampire stories and movies, it's kind of hard to remember the actual content of his work on its own. I do want to read the "Varney the Vampire" stories if only to get more about the character than an entry on literary monsters I read year ago. Sounded kind of fun.
Asatira

****Blaise fades into view...partially (he is still quite transparent).**** Hey, all. My computer has become a Tyranosaurus (sp?) Wrecks--a crashing dinosaur. As such, I am coming to you from one of my local libraries until I can fix the #$%^*&! thing. At any rate....

VAMPIRES AND/OR DRACULA> Personally, I'd kind of like to have a Dracula closer to his original book incarnation. That is to say, I want him to be able to walk about during the day. That's right, sunlight didn't kill Dracula, it just made him weaker and unable to change forms (he was still strong enough to hold his own against Van Helsing, three strapping young Englishmen, and one Texan with a Bowie knife). He did have to spend at least PART of the night resting in his "native earth," though. But sunlight not killing him would be a great way to play with the expectations of the audience (and maybe the characters as well).
It might also be nice for him to have the moustache (and pointed beard in his younger form) and hair on his palms.
Oh, and for the record, I also loved the Discworld vampires (especially Sally of the Watch, and Count Bela--"ol' Red Eyes is back!").

Well, my time is about to expire, so I'll be off. Until next time, farwell. ****With a heavy sigh, the transparent Blaise walks out through the wall.****

Blaise
"Oops."--Famous last words.

Vampires: I'm not the biggest vampire fan (though I love Hellsing very much), but if this hypothetical occurred, I would like to see Greg go with less "pretty" vampires, or something different from the usual "hot person with fangs" that shows up in modern fiction, instead drawing on the older legends that have already been discussed.

I have a problem with all the limited images of mythological creatures in modern fiction. There were all these different versions of the same critter, but now it seems they're often distilled to one.

(Sorry for not posting often. I am watching the new Spider-Man via downloads and have no deeper thoughts other than, "It's good")

Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson

I've read a speculation that one reason for the development of the "romantic Dracula" was an attempt to explain why he's focusing exclusively on Lucy Westenra and Mina Murray when there are thousands of people in England whom he could be feeding upon - that one of them is the reincarnation of his old love when he was a human, or something of that nature.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

By the way, the age cut-off for the Blue Mug is *18* or older. Sorry, but 17 is still a minor.

17 days left until The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

The Mug-a-Guest sign-ups for Keith, Josh, and Thom won't start until Saturday morning, but please don't let that stop you from arriving on Friday. There's lots of con on Friday.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

I always thought that, if Dracula was going to appear in an animated series like "Gargoyles", he should be voiced by Keith Szarabajka (who played Holtz in "Angel").
Supermorff
"That's all I've got to say about that." - Forrest Gump

Oh man, Discworld! Those are my favorite as well. The heavy handedness that comes along a lot of the time with vampires doesn't stand a chance. I'll always have a soft spot for Maladict(a).
Tabby

ADAM> The thing is, it's a little anti-climatic to not have Dracula put up a fight. They open his casket, he's lying there. They do him in.

I can understand making it a little more dramatic.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Dave moved in when I was ten. So I already built up a ten year Dad-Callous but Dave was still fresh, soft and pink so I kind of became like Dave's Secret Service. Except I had to protect a really dumb guy from danger. Wow, that's exactly the Secret Service." -Christopher Titus

I have to say my all time favourite depictions of vampires in modern fiction have got to be Terry Prachett's Discworld books.

"In Ghat they believe in vampire watermelons, although folklore is silent about what they believe about vampire watermelons. Possibly they suck back."

Algernon
"Note to self: give naked dictation more often. The ideas seem to flow more freely." -Norman Osborn

Greg- The one thing that I can't stand about movies based on Bram Stokers "Dracula" is the fact that they always change the ending. They never leave it the same as in the novel.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Bela Lugosi had a lot to do with the modern romantic vampire. His Dracula is silly caricature now, but he was certainly more suave than any big movie vampire before him. But vampires in fiction have always had a little of a romantic anti-hero edge to them if they weren't treated strictly as the monster, even if they were ugly walking corpses. I can't find any info on whether Carmilla was attractive or not, only that she was able to fit in with the living, but she definitely had a romantic edge. Near as I can tell there was always a double standard and female vampires are almost always pretty. Or having to drink blood to keep their beauty *gag*.

I keep meaning to read the 'Varney the Vampire' stories just for the sake of reading a vampire series that came about pre-Stoker. The illustrations are pretty goofy, but I love them.

Tabby

Greg B: The whole Dracula = Vlad the Impaler is one of the most wide spread misconceptions regarding the good Count, right up there with "Frankenstein is the monster's name". Particularly since Vlad was a notorious mass murdering tyrant. You'd think if Stoker were aware of such details he would have stuck them in the book somewhere, if for no other reason then to highlight his villain's evil.

That said it doesn't really bother me. Stoker only made the vaguest illusions to Drac's backstory, so if Greg or any other writer wants to conflagrate the two figures then I'm cool with that.

Plus I've always been slightly amused at how Dracula has become this figure of dark sensuality. When we first meet him in the book, Dracula is described as a decrepit old man with a monobrow.

Algernon
"Note to self: give naked dictation more often. The ideas seem to flow more freely." -Norman Osborn

Agrippa> "Also what is the "Blue" mug-a-guest, with Greg, Thom, and Keith?"

It's like a regular mug, only more adult-themed (You must be 17 or older to get in there), and instead of talking to just one guest, you get more then one, depending on the year's guests, since it varies year to year.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

I don't even really blame Stoker for romanticizing vampires. His Dracula was still, without a doubt, a monster. Coppola's film may have been called "Bram Stoker's Dracula" but it was not Bram Stoker's "Dracula." Not to slam it since, Keanu Reaves aside, I did enjoy it.

Actually, Stoker never meant for his Dracula to be Vlad Dracula. That was merely where he got the name. He did a lot of research when crafting his story.

But, over the decades so many bad movies turned Dracula into a joke. So many. Christopher Lee admits he had a hand in that, and as much as he loves Stoker's novel, he refuses to discuss those movies.

Finally, I'd say that if anyone romanticized vampires, it was Anne Rice. I'm not a fan of hers.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Dave moved in when I was ten. So I already built up a ten year Dad-Callous but Dave was still fresh, soft and pink so I kind of became like Dave's Secret Service. Except I had to protect a really dumb guy from danger. Wow, that's exactly the Secret Service." -Christopher Titus

The thing about vampires, as with a number of the big "classic" monsters (including werewolves and zombies), how they're represented changes depending on the time and the social fears at the time. When vampires were more local and regional monsters, albeit variations occurred in different parts of the world and I'm thinking of European vampires, they were confined to risen corpses. In that case, they were something to be feared because the dead person hasn't properly passed on, and there was nothing romantic about a corpse walking around to prey on loved ones. The closest to that version is the nosferatu. Stoker more or less codified a lot of vampire traits, and started the romantication of the vampire. Nowadays they're either solitary angsty creatures or not, or part of covens or groups, and the state of being a vampire is not looked on as much as a spiritual or magical thing, but in some films and books as a parallel to disease. So how vampires are treated in the Gargoyles universe will depend on what elements Greg wants to pull upon.
Asatira

Actually Bram's Dracula was largely influenced by Sheridan Le Fanu's Carmilla- which predates it by twenty-five years. Which is why the two are connected in Vampire Hunter D: Blood Lust, Hellsing, and The Batman vs Dracula.

It's be awesome if the lesbian vampiress of legend made it in along with Drac here too. (But I'd settle for Elizabeth Bathory making an honorable mention, even though she, technically, wasn't a vampire.)

Mara
(Bathory's my favorite.)

Since Greg based his take on Macbeth on the historical Macbeth, I wouldn't be surprised if he incorporated elements of Vlad the Impaler in his take on Dracula.

If vampires showed up in the Gargoyles Universe, I'd like to see them done as the reverse of gargoyles. Gargoyles appear monstrous, but are (with a few exceptions, such as Demona and Thailog) noble protectors who defend humans. Vampires in the Gargoyles Universe could appear attractively human, be accepted by those who know them (and who are unaware of their true nature), while secretly preying upon them - and go generally unsuspected because they aren't the ones with the batlike wings and claws and fangs.

Todd Jensen

In the interest of stimulating discussion I'd like to raise a topic that I've been mulling over a bit. We know that given enough time Greg would incorporate as many aspects of real world myth, legend and literature as was feasible into the Gargoyles universe.

We've already seen him bring in copious amounts of Shakespeare, Arthurian legend world mythology and even conspiracy theory. And if popular fan speculation regarding Shari is correct, we may soon be adding 1001 Arabian Nights to the mix.

There has even been talk of tossing in Santa for good measure, but my post here regards another figure that has also embedded himself deeply in the popular consciousness, though at the far end of the spectrum from jolly St. Nick. I am of course speaking of the Prince of Darkness of Darkness himself… Count Dracula!

Greg has mentioned tentative plans to incorporate both vampires and their most famous exemplar into the Gargoyles universe. I was wondering how everybody felt about that?

Personally, I'm a tad ambivalent. While I liked Bram Stoker's original novel, I do feel that it is to horror what "Lord of The Rings" is to fantasy. That is to say that it's spawned so many imitators and cheap derivatives that they have completely swamp the genre.

As a consequence Dracula himself seems like a walking mass of clichés despite the fact that he invented half them. It's gotten to the point where old Drac has become almost a figure of self parody rather then fear. I was never afraid of vampires as a child, for me Dracula was a funny looking muppet with a cheesy accent who thought math on pre-school TV.

In fact the only vampire fiction I generally enjoy is stuff like Joss Whedon's Buffy and Angel series, which deliberately dumps all the Dracula inspired tropes overboard.

Given all that I'd like to know what everybody thinks of the idea of incorporating Dracula into the Gargoyles universe and how you would like to see him potrayed.

Algernon
"Note to self: give naked dictation more often. The ideas seem to flow more freely." -Norman Osborn

By coincidence, I was watching "Rick Steve's Europe" on the local PBS channel last night, and it briefly discussed St. Columba. The program was about various sites in Scotland, including Iona (it mentioned not only that Columba founded it, but also that Macbeth was among the Scottish kings buried there) and Loch Ness (though it didn't mention Columba's encounter with the Loch Ness Monster).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Consirning the mug-a-guest sessions. Do they usually fill up fast. As I was going to arrive saturday, I did want to try for the Keith David one. But was considering comming friday to make sure I could get on it.
Also what is the "Blue" mug-a-guest, with Greg, Thom, and Keith?

Agrippa - [greydragonknight84 at yahoo dot com]

Did you get it from Elton John's garage sale?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA6gT-QI3dg

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

I'm going to put on my Donald Duck costume!

http://video.aol.com/partner/hulu/family-guy-donald-duck-costume/5T_WTXns76acfDHFNjkIPyimSje5yTry

(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
~ Anthony Tini

Today is also Donald Duck's birthday. If my math is right it's been 74 years since his debut.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Not to be confused with St. Columbo's Day. "Before I go, just one more question..."

18 days left until The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Today is St. Columba's day, named after the same St. Columba who appeared in Shari's story in #8 of "Gargoyles".
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Hello, I'm back. My computer has been out of commission for the last two weeks and so I've been unable to visit the comment room. Not much to say here except my two cents for some of the topics I missed. For the Radio play, I suspect that Greg intends to do a Bad Guys play based on the current arc.

I agree with matt about the Gargoyles publication info...I suspect that Greg already knows one way or another, and he's just keeping a lid on it till the gathering. (I could be wrong...)

Other comics that I read besides Gargoyles & Bad Guys: Legend of Isis, The Dresden Files, and Bone (I order the color TPB to read, I do know that the series is over)

I also went and saw Iron Man this weekend...I thought it was pretty good--best Superhero movie out so far in fact--but I definitely thought Prince Caspian was better.

And I was absolutely blown away by Saturday's Spectacular Spider-man. Blown away.

Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Typo: I meant to say the shadows should have been black, not white. My bad. PS-Sorry for the double post.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?

I always forget about the countdown.

Anyhow, I wanted to talk about the clones' coloring, specifically their teeth. (I mentioned this on the Garg Wiki, but I think a discussion forum will satisfy my questions... more satisfactorily. >.>) I understand when the clones premiered, they just had the inverted coloring of their genetic templates, and it was probably just easier not to re-color the mouths so their throats were black and teeth white. Biologically and physically, it doesn't quite sit right with me. (although, it may be that I'm just being too nit-picky) Presumably, their flesh is made of the same material as naturally-born gargoyles, meaning that like nb gargoyles, they have red blood, and therefore red mouths, and their bones are made of calcium therefore white. The shadow in their mouth wouldn't glow just because they're cloned, therefore they should be white. I dunno. Am I just being silly, or does anyone else agree with me?

Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?

Slow this week? I just got back from Disneyland... I was there for a week.

Wil Wheaton was there with his family (I guess it was his) and he was going on Pirates of the Carribean. Kinda neat-o.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Aww, just missed it.
Asatira

Tenth.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Passion is blasphemy in this holy place... and I have a great need to blaspheme." -Mazikeen ("Lucifer")

9TH!!!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"

8th!
Algernon
"Note to self: give naked dictation more often. The ideas seem to flow more freely." -Norman Osborn

Lucky number seven(7) for me!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3

sixth in the name of having a solid internet connection for the moment . . . .
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

5th~!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Too much sleep...

Hey, 4th. Whaddaya know.
Karine
4 down, 2 to go...

Third, and I didn't even know what time it was!
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."

2nd in the name of the newest Buffy comic.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

1st in the name of potentially hearing about the license renewal for Gargoyles by the end of the month.

Oh yea, 1st also in the name of watching "The Tempest" in person on Saturday night.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?