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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 24, 2011

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Heywood> That's interesting. It seems low to me. But then that was the mid-90s. I wonder if that included the actor's salary?
Richard Jackson

"Episodic costs on Gargoyles averaged about $450K per episode" (Ask Greg)

holy explicative!

Heyward

HANAL> Why would mortal magic be dead? We've seen mortal magic being practiced even after the Grimorum went up in flames. Una used some in "M.I.A." and, of course, Demona's fulfillment spell in "Hunter's Moon."
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]
"Cartman gets ten million dollars and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle

With the Grimorum gone is human magic dead? Or would there be other texts that a mortal could use to learn?
Hanal

NEILL> Of course it was. BTW, this was definitely in the archives.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]
"Cartman gets ten million dollars and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle

Since Ask Greg is closed, I'm gonna ask the question here:

What happened to the Grimorum Arcanorum after the Archmage swallowed it and died in Avalon Part 3? Was it destroyed?

Neill

Neill> "Have you heard of Uwe Boll? Check his filmography out on IMDB. You don't wanna see a Gargoyles movie made by him."

I agree. Made the big mistake of buying his 'House Of The Dead' movie, and then saw this:

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/11343-alone

Just those things are more Boll then anyone should ever see.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

In issue 3 of Bad Guys, Jason was incarcerated at Rikers Island Prison. Of course, that may be just artistic license (like when associated bad guys, Wolf and Jackal for example, share the same prison cell), since convicted felons tend to be in prison and those awaiting trial and/or appeal their conviction tend to be in jail. But then, Jason could be imprisoned on a previous conviction he never served.
Richard Jackson - [rickymtj@yahoo.com]

SOPHIA> Jason blew up a police station, that's really, really bad. As for how long, I don't think he's even gone to trial yet when we last saw him.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]
"Cartman gets ten million dollars and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle

Re: The Island> To say I don't care much for Michael Bay is an understatement, but I do like the Island. I thought it was a legitimately interesting movie. I actually didn't even know it was Michael Bay. The general idea behind it reminds me of one of the histories of Krypton (of DC Comics) in which the Kryptonians had masses of clones to replace vital organs, extend youth, blah, blah, blah, but then the planet blew up.
Samuel
Now, now. Language...

Does anyone know how long Jason will be in jail for and for what charges?
Sophia

Brainiac> Thanks :) it'll be good to have Thundercats back on tv. I hope it's as good as the original.
Sophia

Sophia> All I've heard is July of this year.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Adam> I'll admit that i never spoke of Gargoyles as a child. Maybe when I was five I may have mentioned it but no one really knew about it. When i went to middle school kids picked on me for watching it -since it was a cartoon and we're all supposed to be grown ups by middle school, you know... -but, I found that discussing Gargoyles in highschool worked quite nicely. As long as you never mention that you still watch it now everyone kind of wistfully looks back on the good old days when tv was good.
But... i see your point... I defenitely see your point. And, it sucks... People are just not sophistocated enough for Gargoyles.

Sophia

Sorry for the triple post, but I thought entered my head as to why Power Rangers beat Gargoyles in the ratings. For me, Gargoyles came out when I was forteen, and I was an immediate fan. However, at that age, I was reluctant to talk to people about this great sereis for fear of being picked on for watching a cartoon, no matter how great it was or the age group it was intended for. Of course, now, many years later, I am finding several fans who felt and did the same thing that I did all those years ago. And none of these people where aware of the comic books until I told them and bought copies for them.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

And then Michael Bay says he doesn't understand the difference, and they just say "We know".
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

I though South Park hit Michael Bay right on the head in the episode "Imagination Land Part 1" when they say he only has special effects, not story.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

Neill> I disagree with you that children under 12 can't understand Gargoyles. I was five when I started watching Gargoyles and I understood it just fine then. Actually... I think i understood it better then...

Brainiac> Thanks soo much for the links :) Ah, it's good to know that the Thundercats are back. I missed them. they may not be how I remember them but I'm still glad they're back. Would you happen to know when the series premiers?

Sophia

On a happier note, today is William Shakespeare's birthday. So let's give our thanks again to the playwright without whom "Gargoyles" would have been a different series.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]

Greg B> 'Michael Bay is the Devil. And not the cool Devil from "Paradise Lost." But that retard devil who turns everything to crap.'

So, Bay = Mephisto? I thought that was Quesada. Heh.

Sophia> 'Thundercats is coming back!!!???!!??'

I refer you to the trailer that CN ran a while back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KGj6KGeUto
There was also a preview screened at WonderCon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjuCkRA1qtI

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

NEILL> Yes, I've heard of Uwe Boll, and even see and hated Boll's. Bay is far, far, far worse. The worst kind of douchebag hack. Boll is a hack, but he's never angered me. Bay is a hack, has angered me, and is a genuinely terrible human being considering what many who have worked with him have to say about him.

HEYWARD> Have you read the comics? We got a "Bad Guys" story.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]
"Cartman gets ten million dollars and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle

Blizzard to Uwe Boll re Warcraft movie "We will not sell the movie rights, not to you...especially not to you"
Heyward

On revamped movies, how did you guys like Trek?

This guy does some good sci fi reviews. They're really long and you have to get past his weird voice and quirkiness but he makes some good points and I found them entertaining. He should take a stab at xformers.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/

Heyward

Power Rangers is easy and it's for kids. (mainly) Gargoyles is not easy, most kids below the age of 12 can't follow the plot and to many adults it's just another animated tv series. PR and Gargoyles appeal to different audiences, but Disney wanted Gargoyles to outdo PR. It's like expecting that "Leprechaun 4 In Space" outdoes "Spongebob Squarepants The Movie", even though both of them were a success at the box office.

Greg B.> Michael Bay isn't the worst. Have you heard of Uwe Boll? Check his filmography out on IMDB. You don't wanna see a Gargoyles movie made by him.

Neill

Greg> Speaking as a professionally trained cook, I'm a little insulted by the idea of Micheal Bay in MY kitchen. He's certainly not qualified even for that. And I certainly wouldn't allow him near the deep frier, unless I wanted a mess that would take all night to clean up.
Chip - [<------The League of Extraordinary Nerds Here!]
"An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason." C. S. Lewis

I always thought the spinoffs were just a "this could be cool" thing for Greg, but apparently they were for real. I read in a ramble yesterday there was at one point big plans to expand Gargoyles into a universe rivaling Marvel/DC. I think that would have been pretty awesome and I must cry inside that it never happened. The spinoffs had potential I think.

I guess the only problem is if you get tired of Gargoyles themselves. Aside from differing personalities, you can pretty much sum them up as honorable protectors with great strength and a huge Achilles heel. Pendragon, Olympians, and Bad Guys would have been fine since they're not centered on Gargoyles, but the future, past, present and timedancer ones would have risked wearing out the idea.

Heyward

MASTERDRAMON> You know what, you're right. Congratulations, Bay, you are worse than the Power Rangers.

Sorry for my previous rant, but Bay really is my berserk button. But, Movie Bob says it far better than I.

http://moviebob.blogspot.com/2009/06/escape-to-movies-transformers-2.html

I love this rant.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]
"Cartman gets ten million dollars and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle

Now let's be fair, Greg. "Power Rangers" is bad, don't get me wrong, but comparing it to Michael Bay's average fare is just a liiiiiittle bit much. ;P

At least "Power Rangers" eventually managed to produce a series of some genuine quality...on their seventeenth season. But hey, 'tis still better than what Michael Bay can claim. XD

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

It's a sad truth that American viewers have lost any value for REAL tv. Gargoyles isn't the only good show lost over the years. It's not the only good show that's been replaced by stupid shows that probably come off of conveyor belts instead of minds.
How Power Rangers could beat Gargoyles is beyond me... Ugh...
Why can't people watch tv shows that actually make them think about the characters and plots like they used to? Why does everyone want to watch cities getting blown up or little children getting into romantic relationships?
It's just absurd.

Sophia

SOPHIA> It's an analogy. But back when "Gargoyles" first ran, in most markets it was up against "Power Rangers" and, sadly" Power Rangers" always beat "Gargoyles" in the ratings.

But America tends to prefer retard feces to quality, I've noticed. Hence the popularity of Michael Bay.

But, like I said earlier, if you want giant Oberon testicles, five scenes of Bronx humping Boudicca and Cagney, and Goliath tearing Xanatos's face off, then Bay is the perfect guy.

Hell, Bay will even give us gargoyles as racist stereotypes, and he'll hire which ever underwear models he's currently boning to play Elisa and Demona rather than any real actresses.

Michael Bay is the Devil. And not the cool Devil from "Paradise Lost." But that retard devil who turns everything to crap.

Sorry... I went to film school, I have a degree in producing and I am a writer. I've studied film. I've watched a lot of films. And the thought of Bay ever even thinking of coming near "Gargoyles" makes me sick.

But Bay won't come near "Gargoyles." It has Shakespeare in it, and that's too "boring" for that creepy, racist man-child.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]
"Cartman gets ten million dollars and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle

Greg> Really? I thought a lot of people watched gargoyles back in the day. Everyone's forgotten. But, if I ever bring it up in class -which lately I've been doing -everyone always says how much they used to love that show. I've never met a person who didn't know about the Gargoyles.
Sophia

Hated "The Island." I hate everything Michael Bay has ever made. Honestly, he should never, ever be making movie. I'd think the only job he would ever be qualified for is fry cook, but be'd burn the fries.

The guy is just the worst kind of hack, and represents everything terrible about Hollywood. And the fact that his movies make so much money says some very bad things about the movie going public. Of course this is the same public that tunes into "American Idol" week after week after week.

Okay, to tie it into an analogy for "Gargoyles." Michael Bay is "Power Rangers" and "Gargoyles" is that beautiful, Oscar winning movie that few people went to see because it was open against Bay.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]
"Cartman gets ten million dollars and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God." -Kyle

Anonymous> Thundercats is coming back!!!???!!??
Sophia

Re: Lost Gargoyles Scenes > Thank you for posting those. I'm glad I was finally able to see those clips. But I must confess, Fang's "Kinky" line did not impress me as much as I hoped it would. All these years I've heard about that scene and never saw it, I guess I just built it up in my head as being better than the actual execution on the show. I figured he'd deliver the line with a lot more energy, humor, and mischievousness, but he kinda deadpans it. Oh well.

Re: Michael Bay > What did everyone think of "The Island"? I know it's not exactly recent, but I thought I'd bring it up because I actually thought "The Island" was a pretty good movie.

Rebel

Anonymous> Who's this President Obama guy? I've never heard of him...he must be new.
Chip - [<------The League of Extraordinary Nerds Here!]
"An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason." C. S. Lewis

Transformers originated in the mid-eighties and was about robots turning into cars and stuff. And while there were a few Transformers turning into animals, the show you mean, was Transformers: Beast Wars, which came out in the mid-nineties and was about robots turning into animals.
Neither the original nor Beast Wars or any other of the numerous the pre-Bay Transformers series have anything to do with the Bay movies, except for some names.

In the eighties there was aseries with cat people which currently is getting a reboot, too: Thundercats. (And the new Thundercats can't have bare mid-riffs like the eighties ones did since, well, that looks skeevy, according to the new designers. *eyeballs the new skanky Cheetara design in contrast to the old one* I completely believe them ... not)

Anonymous

Heyword> Sure, just keep on checking this CR and when the wiki is back up, we'll let you all know here.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Rock on. Well, I'd like to get involved somehow if there's work to be done. I don't have web skills but grunt work for the wiki? Maybe I'll work on getting screencaps for any missing portraits/locations.
Heyward

HANAL> We had that on the GargWiki, and that will still be there when GargWiki comes back online.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Does the webmaster browse this? Would it be possible to categorize the Ask Greg Episode-specific rambles so they are easy to find? I'm thinking an ordered list of episodes with links to the relevant memos/rambles. The commentary on them brings new depth to just watching the episodes. I'd be happy to assist if there is a way.
Hanal

Hmm...I've just begun wondering, apropos only slightly to this, whether PackMedia Studios still owns the right to produce more Pack material even though their main stars are all current or retired felons. Because if a Gargoyles Universe version of Michael Bay exists, I'm thinking a film adaptation would be riiiiiight up his alley. XD

Minimal characterization, obvious and completely undeveloped villains, emphasis on action! Action! ACTION!!!1 Just add-in some explosions in post and that's a wrap!

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

I've been reading the formsprings, and Sally Avril's is either the best or worst ever. I can't decide. LOL!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

There were some cat transformers, a cheetah and a white tiger I think. But the movie series is a spinoff and instead of doing animals they turn into cars. (I think they were going after $$$ with that since they figure more people are into cars than anthropomorphic cats)
Hanal

Forgot to add...

Now, if I want to see a giant Oberon's testicles, or five scenes of Bronx humping Cagney and Boudicca while Goliath tears Xanatos's face off, then yes, I'll say that Bay is the man.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

HANAL> Wasn't that the show with the cat people?
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.

HANAL> Asking if we've heard of Transformers is kind of like asking if we've ever heard of President Obama. Just saying.

Personally, I thought the movies were atrocious. But all of Michael Bay's movies have been pure garbage. How can anyone even call those movies? They are more like explosions that have movies in them. I'd rather have a director who understands and cares about things like story and character development for "Gargoyles."

Kenneth Branagh who is directing "Thor" now could be great for "Gargoyles." He's directed a lot of Shakespeare adaptations for the big screen, and he loves this kind of material. And he's a competent and skilled director. "Gargoyles" is right up his alley.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Have you guys heard of Transformers? It was another comic/tv show from th0e 80s/90s that was recently resurrected.

Anyway I just saw a trailer for the third movie...looks awesome. The director is Michael Bay. The first 2 movies were exceptional and got top ratings for their action sequences but if you look at the development of the two leads played by megan fox and shiah le beau I think he does characters really well too.

Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll show some interest in Gargoyles next.

Hanal

Geez, all those scenes aired in the Family Channel episodes that aired in Canada-and without commercials too back prior to 2001. It's been that long since Gargs has aired in this country. Now all they air is crap like Hannah Montana & Life with Derek.
Wingless

I haven't seen some of those scenes since the 90's... and, in fact, I don't remember the stuff from Golem at all!

Interesting.

Thanks again, Greg.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

Neill: Sporcle is a user-generated quiz website, featuring thousands upon thousands of trivia challenges on all manners of everything. It's great fun, and massively addicting...I should know, LOL.

Supermorff: Yeah, from the looks of it most of "Quiz_Maker"'s stuff is derivative from other people's work, but I guess I can't fault them for helping to legitimize the search term...

Anyway, seeing this has got me considering to create another one of these quizzes, though I'm not really sure where to go now that I've got pretty satisfactory ones for episodes, comic issues, and characters. Any suggestions on what other manners of "Gargoyles" trivia y'all people here would enjoy getting quizzed on, if any?

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

Masterdramon> Yay! (Although someone has just duplicated one of the quizes I made.)
Supermorff

What the hell is Sporcle?
Neill

Fun little tidbit I just learned this morning - thanks to Sporcle's new search system, the word "Gargoyles" is now a searchable term!

http://www.sporcle.com/search/?p=1&s=gargoyles&pub=0&sb=4

Probably not particularly meaningful for most here, but it put a smile on my face, so I thought I'd share. :)

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

KingCobra_582 - Yeah, me too. I always wondered how Oberon was shot. Thanks, Greg!
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Greg B.> It looks like they air Gargoyles uncut in germany, because that scene from "Turf" is from the german TV channel which airs Gargoyles in double episodes on sundays. Notice the orange logo on the top right. I've got all the german episodes in HQ and I am certain I've seen all of that scenes in your youtube vid.
Neill

That was really cool, Greg. I even remember some of those scenes from when they were on Fox and USA. However, the uncut scene where Elisa pulls her gun on Oberon looked the same as the Toon Disney version.
Richard Jackson - [rickymtj@yahoo.com]

Greg B.> Thanks for the link. That video was interesting. And I'd always noticed the 'Gathering Part II' edit with Oberon. Thanks for helping me see it uncut. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

Oh Gods, merci beaucoup for that, Greg. XD

Since I only started watching the series once it came to Toon Disney, I've never actually seen any of the second half of Season 2 uncut, and I've been searching fruitlessly for years and years to hear Fang's utterance of [SPOILER] kinky [/SPOILER]. Thanks for allowing me to do so.

Of course, the only edit that really impeded comphrehension was the harpoon-gun cut, which even as a kid made me go...what in the world just happened? XP

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

So, I just posted a little video on YouTube. Scenes from "Gargoyles" that have not been seen since 1997. As most everyone here knows, when "Gargoyles" went off syndication, it moved to Toon Disney (now Disney XD) and was chopped up and edited.

Season one and the first half of season two have since been released on DVD uncut, but sadly, the latter half of season two hasn't been seen uncut since 1997. If you came into "Gargoyles" anytime after that, you likely haven't seen these unless you were lucky enough to see someone's taped copies. Hell, even the bootlegged copies are the Toon Disney edited versions.

http://youtu.be/lRmVeZYXNr8

Enjoy the lost "Gargoyles" scenes. Especially a certain five letter word from Fang. ;)

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

One other little quote from Greg W. that I'd like to add to Greg B.'s explanation...

"Demona is, ironically , quick to declare things, people, plans, etc. a lost cause."

Haven't you ever had one of those days where you've had a goal to accomplish, and a thousand ways to do it, but the first dozen don't work out so you get frustrated and start flying through methods, often writing them off and throwing them away before you've fully explored them because you're just that infuriated and impatient?

Yeah, now try multiplying that over a thousand years. Demona sunk so much stake into the resurrection of the Manhattan Clan - including the unusual but not unprecedented move of allying with a clearly untrustworthy human - that when it starts to go south her extreme paranoia kicks in and she tries to pull the plug in a very, very dramatic fashion.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

Sigh, early today, on 4chan, I read someone criticize Greg Weisman's writing by saying "it's too subtle, I shouldn't need a degree in psychiatry to understand the motives of a cartoon character." I don't know why I am relating that anecdote, I just am. I completely disagree with that person, however.

HANAL> Yes, Demona tells us and herself that everything she's doing is to protect the gargoyle race. This is, of course, complete bullshit.

Demona is full of self-hatred, rationalizations, and guilt that she projects onto everyone else around her. She knows, deep inside, that she is at fault for the massacre at Castle Wyvern. She knows it. But she will never admit to it, especially to herself. So she projects it all on the humans, and her enemies.

The gargoyles of Manhattan won't follow her, so they become part of the problem instead. She can never admit that she is wrong, that she is at fault, so they become species traitors in her eyes instead. It's not the slightest bit rational, and it's not supposed to be. Keep in mind that Demona is not the most sane and rational of people.

She ESPECIALLY DESPISES Elisa Maza for all of this, because Elisa is living proof that Demona is wrong. Demona can't have that, so she wants to kill her. Seriously, she hates Elisa more than any Hunter.

I will end this with a quote from an essay I recently wrote about the differences between Demona and Magneto:

***

Despite what Demona says, destroying humanity takes precedent over the welfare of the gargoyle species. With Magneto, while I'm sure he'd be willing to push the genocide button, he doesn't particularly want to. In fact, when he ruled Genosha, he allowed the human population to live there in peace, and didn't pursue any kind of persecution and allowed humans to sit in his cabinet. For Magneto, genocide is a means to an end. For Demona, genocide is the end.

The key difference is that there is no self-delusion on Magneto's part. Demona's hatred of humanity is a rationalization of her own guilt and self loathing. Magneto, by contrast, truly believes in his heart of hearts that he's doing what needs to be done. Magneto is basically what Demona likes to think she is.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Recent questions have been answered on Ask Greg, but the submission page still says they're closed :/ What did I miss
Hanal

I never really got Demona's hatred of Goliath + clan. I don't think it's plainly obvious from the episodes. Over her time in the series it is made clear that she hates the humans and especially Elisa but the clan? Her motivations start to finish from Awakening to Hunter's Moon were to create a world where Gargoyles could rule. Even her bargain with Macbeth was made for the benefit of her new clan.

She states in the series several times that she hates Goliath+, but we're never given any good reason for that. She's probably frustrated that they foil her plans. She thinks Goliath is a naive fool and that Hudson is old and weak, but that's not homicidal rage. She probably doesn't feel too strongly about the trio. The motivation for trying to destroy them in Awakening, Long Way, City of Stone, etc is something where I just suspend disbelief and let her be the episode's villain.

Hanal

Glad to help.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Greg> That really clarifies a lot :) I kind of got that idea from the episodes but I wasn't entirely positive. Thank you so much on the clarification :)
Sophia

SOPHIA> Wow... if the episode didn't adequately explain this, I'm not sure what I can add. The show itself was pretty clear on all of this.

The surface answer is that Demona believes Goliath's trust in humans would lead to their destruction.

Dig beneath the surface and Demona has a lot of repressed guilt that she won't own up, so she projects it on her favorite scapegoats, humanity. Goliath to, to an extent. Far easier to blame everyone else than to accept the blame herself.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Greg> That makes SO much sense. That really cleared up a lot, actually, thank you. The only other thing about her that confuses me is -Why did Demona decide to attack the gargoyles at the end of Awakening? What was her motivation to turn on them? Did she see that Goliath was starting to trust humans and took it as a sign that he wouldn't trust her? Was it a "you're either my ally or enemy" paranoia on Demona's part? –or do I have it completely wrong?
Sophia

SOPHIA> Well, first off, Goliath is now her enemy, but at that point she thought she could turn the rest of them. So she follows them around to see what she can learn and use. Knowledge is power after all.

Aside from that, what else about Demona is confusing you. The show itself spent a lot of time on her, and explaining things.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Greg> I suppose that is my question: why? For some reason I'm having a tough time figuring out where Demona is coming from half the time. I still don't understand why she does what she does. Maybe I never will. But, I'm really hoping that you could shed some light on the situation, if you please. :)
Sophia

SOPHIA> Don't sweat it.

As for your second question, there are two possibilities. Keep in mind, she was still allied with Xanatos, so he could have told her. The other is that she was stalking her former clan and watching them. As for why? Well, why do you think?

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Greg> Sorry about the "u's" old habits die hard.

Anonymous>.......

I have a question for everyone, sorry if it's kind of off topic but... it's been bothering me for days.- In "Temptation" Demona mentioned that she knew about the Lexington-Pack fiasco. How did she know? Was she stalking them? If so, why?

Sophia

Hello. I'm new to posting here. I am a long time fan of Greg's work. I was twelve when Gargoyles first aired. I have a soft spot for the song Demon in Me from W.I.T.C.H but the only recording of it floating around is roughly a minute to a minute and a half long and it's an edited down version of the version from the episode Self, cutting out character dialogue. It's been over five years since W.I.T.C.H ended is there any chance a recording of Demon in Me and Will to Love will be made available to the public? Even just as a youtube video? The versions floating around are cut down and very poor quality.
Amanda - [JTheGoblinKing@aol.com]

I think we should all be patient... I love the wiki as much as you all, and having my own website that I had to port over to a new site I know what Greg and the others are going through. And after all, they have JOBS that probably take precidence over the wiki. So in time it will be back. Patience is a virtue!

Thanks, Greg!

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

I think we just got trolled - we have drama after all!
Hanal

But how can we be patient, Rebel? We can't even waste time baiting Demona because FORMSPRING'S DOWN TOO! THE HORROR!
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

NEBULAN> GargWiki is being worked on as we speak, but the entire wiki is being transferred to a new site. This will take time, but it shall be back.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Gargwiki will be back sooner or later. Let's just be patient while the wiki team finds a new home for it.
Rebel

Hello, my name is Nebulan and I am ADDICTED to GargWiki!! I miss it so much!! Is it coming back? Does it need help? Can we help????
Nebulan
I want more gargoyles canon!

That's right Sophia, Greg is the Overlord of this here comment room. You do not have typing freedoms here. He is also Overlord of the Gargwiki, which is why it's gone and most likely never coming back.
Anonymous

Darkwing Duck #11 is out today: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=8368 So is the 2nd DW trade paperback collecting issues #5-8: http://www.midtowncomics.com/store/dp.asp?PRID=DARKWING+DUCK+TP+VOL+02+C_1122319

Young Justice #3 is out today: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1015 You can also buy it digitally: https://comics.comixology.com/#/issue/9360/Young-Justice-3

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Actually I'm heavy into video games, watching notable press conferences online (like the E3 in 2 months) and all that stuff. Call me fanatic, whatever. Anyway, there is one developer studio around which has shown interested in obtaining licenses of popular franchises (even bigger than Gargoyles) and in fact is developing two of those games currently. They work close together with the original producers/cast of those franchises. No doubt they'd get Greg on board, (maybe even some of the voice actors) if somehow someone makes Gargoyles tasty for them and they are willing to take it all a level higher.
Neill

Greg> That would be EPIC.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

As far as a "Gargoyles" video game goes, I'd love to see the team behind "Batman: Arkham Asylum" develop it. It would work.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

I know you're talking about an official game but I've been playing around with some ideas for another fan made game. My vision is an action RPG with a persistent world. The player would start off as one of Xanatos' non-braindead commandos who would start to find out more about the world. The advanced technology from Xanatos provides a good approach to character progression (robotics, cybernetics, genetic mutation). You'd have varied gameplay options for your preferences and the situation. Taking out enemies at range uses first person view and a gun. An enemy attacking up close knocks you out of FPS view, zooming out 3rd person where you do some basic fighting game style combo moves. Eventually you might have some very limited access to magic, possibly through a mouse gesture recognition system to simulate casting.

I have some programming background and have been learning a game engine called unity. My masterpiece so far consists of a cube running around on a flattened cube shooting tiny cubes at other enemy cubes. I'm focusing right now on camera/character controls to handle all the combat mode switching.

Obtaining quality art is really the dealbreaker. Modeling and animation are both very involved as is quality level design. Still I one day dream of running around in Castle Wyvern. The street level view I think won't be as bad once I find a way to extract Manhattan from Google Earth.

Does anyone have any idea where exactly the Eyrie building is located? I don't know the area well but you can see the Chrysler building and the former towers in a lot of the shots.

Hanal

Hanal> If you want a more detailed answer, there are two wikis because they were launched independently in a very short space of time, before either founder knew the other existed. GargWiki got the support of the majority of the fandom, so it grew faster and became more detailed. At some point, someone from Grimorum started spamming GargWiki pages saying, essentially, "Your wiki isn't very good, come to ours," which Greg B quickly put them down for. I think that's about it.

Gorebash> Nice find on that drawmein guy - so he was the kid with the 'G'-shield shirt?

Supermorff

HalfKorean.com follows up on the connection between Artemis and the daughter of TSSM producer/Gargoyles artist Vic Cook: http://www.halfkorean.com/?p=5581

The Young Justice comic series is selling well: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1012 Here's a preview of the Free Comic Book Day issue: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1014 Free Comic Book Day is on May 7th this year.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Adam: I'd like to see some kind of third/first-person (swap between the views as needed) game that has some non-linear story elements to it. A bit like Grand Theft Auto (3 and later) where you would fly around NYC defeating bad guys at will while a the story evolves. Maybe throw in some kind of flashback or Phoenix Gate mechanism to change settings (go fight the Vikings in 994, have a Future Tense setting, etc.) I'd have the player character be a new character (there would be a character design screen before you start the game) rather than play an existing character. Maybe allow for time progression (night turns to day, etc.) and with that a requirement that you find a ledge to perch before day. If you get caught mid-fight something bad happens. Greg could write the story. The original voice actors could reprise their roles for cut scenes/cinematics. I think it'd be a pretty sweet game. A GTA game with an Everybody ESRB rating so parents could/would buy it for their kids. Marketable, fun, and help revitalize interest in the universe.
Gorebash

Adam: I somehow doubt that such a thing would work particularly well, since an ensemble beat-em-up like Ultimate Alliance relies on variety in its character base, and "Gargoyles"...just kinda lacks that element to the degree necessary to support such a thing. The "powers" of a character like Goliath, after all, do not differ significantly from the "powers" of Broadway or Leo or Kai, so in terms of things like special attacks I can't imagine that there would be a huge amount of variety. Secondary characters like Coldstone or Dingo or Macbeth would mitigate this issue somewhat, but the fact remains that the central protagonists of the series - and thus, the ones who would be at the forefront of the character roster - just don't differ all that much in the ways they attack enemies.

As for what I'd like to see...the only thing that jumps out to me immediately would be a story-heavy turn-based RPG, especially if it is developed by Bioware (the guys behind Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect, both of which prove that the company definitely knows how to exploit the video game medium to its fullest storytelling potential).

Greg Weisman writing the story + Bioware adapting it to the fresh medium = epic win, no doubt about that.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

Someone noticed a pair of "hipster" cops appearing in Marvel and DC books.
http://www.ifanboy.com/content/articles/Scott_Snyder_Uncovers_Bizarre_Background_Character_Mystery

In the comments section someone mentioned a guy who has been trying to get himself drawn in as an extra into comic books. He's not related to the aforementioned hipster cops, but he does have a web site here:
http://www.drawmein.com/

And on his site he states that his third appearance was in SLG's Gargoyles #3. See here:
http://www.drawmein.com/2007_03_01_archive.html

He met Dave Hedgecock and Greg at a con in 2006 and handed Dave a flyer explaining his plan. Dave said he'd slip him in somewhere and there it is in Gargoyles #3.

Gorebash

I have a question for everyone. If they ever made a new Gargoyles video game (which would be sweet but only if Greg wrote the storyline for it), what style of game would you like. Personally, I would like the style to be like Marvel's X-men legend and Ultimate Alliance series. What about the rest of you?
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

Amusing. Your comment earlier where you cleared up that Gargwiki wouldn't be merging with Grimorum made me think there was more to it- a tale of conflict, betrayal, and possibly romance. Really, it was thinly veiled dramamongering.

Thanks for maintaining that wiki and answering all of our questions here.

Hanal

HANAL> Well, you see... at the dawn of time there existed two beings of supernatural power. The Morningstar and Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics.

The Morningstar and Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics battled one another over and over again and guided human evolution. It had to be done because Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics killed the dinosaurs after he got drunk on a bender and puked into the ocean. Yes, Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics' puke is that awesome.

As humans evolved, the Morningstar and Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics had numerous affairs with comely women and produced history's most influential people. Julius Caesar, King Arthur, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Muhammed, Moses, and Stephen Colbert... just to name a few.

Remember the bombing of Hiroshima? There was no atomic bomb, that happened because Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics had a hangover from drinking too much saki. The Morningstar couldn't be outdone and went on a Saki binge at Nagasaki.

Well, eventually, like all great things, Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics died... he slipped in the shower, and the Morningstar, bored and in mourning, invented the internet before he too passed on... he got eaten by a tiger.

And that, is how we got two Gargoyles wikis. Although, only one of them matters. GargWiki, which is the son of the Badass Who Isn't Batman Because Batman is Trademarked by DC Comics.

That answer your question?

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Anyone know how we ended up with 2 different Gargoyles wikis
Hanal

Greg- Thanks.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

ADAM> It's moving. Can't say where yet.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Anyone know what happened to the Gargoyle wiki page?
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

Darkwing does less than the average Marvel Comic. But way better than many low end Marvel Comics. It does better than Rescue Rangers, too. The Gargoyle Comics from SLG sold a bit more than the Darkwing Comics do nowadays. I say Darkwing and Gargoyles would do equal, if a new Gargoyles Comic gets released. (which I really hope)
Neill

Now Darkwing Duck has been one the best titles at Boom, saleswise, and it seems like Rescue Rangers did well too as it didn't deter them from planning a Ducktales comic, but how do they stack up compared to the average sales of a Marvel Comic?
Antiyonder

And speaking of Laura San Giacomo, I saw her, Bill Fagerbakke and Matt Frewer in The Stand mini-series when I watched it recently. Kind of interesting that three Gargoyles actors happened to be in it. Of course, you can argue that The Stand employed a lot of character actors, that it was bound to happen.
Richard Jackson

I remember that Laura San Giacomo was on an episode of Batman Beyond and she was credited. I wonder if she changed represenation by that time or if her agent finally realized that animation is not a career killer?
Richard Jackson

HANAL> Greg answered this one years back, but yes, Demona knows.

"You serve the human, now you can serve me."

And no, we don't know when she found out or how she found out. Greg hasn't revealed that yet.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Does Demona know that Owen is really Puck?
Hanal

SOPHIA> I hate to be that guy, I really do. But, it's "you," not "u." Sorry, it's just one of my pet peeves.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Greg> u have a very good point. Thanks for the clarification
Sophia

SOPHIA> And when did Goliath and Elisa hear Demona's human name? Do we even know for sure that it came up?

Xanatos hasn't even mentioned Thailog's name since "Double Jeopardy" so we have no idea what he does and doesn't know. They haven't met since then. And last I saw, the two weren't buddy-buddy, so why would Thailog give Xanatos any information if he did successfully track him down?

Besides, Demona's position at Nightstone Unlimted is moot for now, since she hasn't been back to Nightstone since "Hunter's Moon" and Thailog is operating it solo now.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Greg> Macbeth married Domique Destine in France. She turned into Demona at night. I'm assuming they put the pieces together. I could be wrong.
Harvester of Eyes> I agree that Elisa and the clan didnt tell Xanatos. It's obvious they dont really like him and why would they even mention it? But, my question is, did Xanatos track down Thailog and ask him about his new business and his business partner (Dominique)? Thailog is -in a way -his creation. wouldnt he be suspicious that his gargoyle clone was able to get a human business partner, investigate, and see the startling resemblence between Dominique and Demona?

Sophia

Since when do Elisa and the clan know Demona is Dominique Destine? They know she transforms into a human, but that's hardly the same thing.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Sophia: I also don't think Elisa or the clan would have had a reason to tell Xanatos who Demona is during the day. Just because the gargoyles are living at the castle now doesn't mean there's any love between them and Xanatos. Elisa especially has reason to dislike him. Because of him, her brother is big walking cat.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The editor lies screaming (baking in his waking dream), questioning 'Who is God's favorite rock star this week?' And will the front page pay take him?" -Ian Anderson

Sophia: <Oh wow... this is all so very convoluted. How did the illuminati know that the gargoyles were there? Did Xanatos tell them? He is a member. Was that just another Xanatos betrayal?>

The Society probably knew that the gargoyles were back at the castle because they watch TV. There was a news crew outside Saint Damien's, and I'm sure that someone in the Illuminati recognized Xanatos's chopper.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The editor lies screaming (baking in his waking dream), questioning 'Who is God's favorite rock star this week?' And will the front page pay take him?" -Ian Anderson

Greg> Elisa and the clan knows. the hunters knew. And Thailog knows. Did any of them tell him? I find it hard to beleive that Xanatos would've been kept in the dark about that -even if he had to figure it out by other means. Wouldn't he have gotten suspicious when he heard that the CEO of Nightstone was Alexander Thailog? I know i would've looked into that if i were Xanatos.
Sophia

SOPHIA> Why would he know? He and Dominique have never appeared on screen.

HANAL> Disney has been pretty cool with this fandom.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Has Disney ever objected to anyone here for stuff like the wiki, fansites, fan fiction, fan art, or otherwise using screen caps/audio files from the show? They seem to enjoy litigation, though I couldn't find evidence of coming after nonprofit stuff like this. Just curious.
Hanal

Does anyone know if Xanatos knows that Demona is Dominique Destine?
Sophia

Greg> Hopefully, although the FAQ is still a good one stop shop for canon-in-training info. Regardless, I think the FAQ should either be up to date or be removed.

Also, doesn't GargWiki lack some development details currently on the FAQ? I suppose we should work on that when the wiki comes back up. (Someone remind me, 'kay? Thanks.)

Supermorff

SUPERMORFF> Hopefully when GargWiki comes back on, that FAQ will be redundant.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-By-Fours]

Uh... 9 or 10? Let's say 10.

So I've just had a look through the FAQ on this site, and I realised that there isn't any mention of the SLG comics. In particular, questions about Bad Guys and about which spin-off came closest to being made now seem out of date.

An update may be on someone's to do list already, but I thought I'd mention it since I noticed.

Supermorff

Dark Ages was never made. There is only fanfiction of it.
Hanal

7th. At the moment I've been collecting gargoyles figures via ebay and i've got 5 so far. Overall loved the show and to me it remains one of the greatest shows of all time.
Florgeysteve - [florgeysteve@yahoo.co.uk]
The wind carries my winged justice.

Eight
Phil - [p1anderson@yahoo.com]

1312312
Aaron Rodgers Authentic Jersey - [seo321123@gmail.com]
2141234234

SIXTH!!!!!

I think...

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Uh, the good news is that his air supply is holding out..." "What's the bad news?" "The bad news is that he isn't breathing." - Vince Pelligrino and Avery Butler, ExoSquad

Hello. The first is to apologize for my manner of writing, I'm Spanish and I am writing this review through a translator.
The second thing is that I wonder if the "Dark Ages" is in cartoon version or just a comic, and also where I could find.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. A greeting.

Sorry to repeat the message but before the Spanish version published in error.

Carolina - [Karomajochan@msn.com]

Hola. Lo primero es disculparme por mi modo de escribir, yo soy espa�±ola y estoy escribiendo este comentario gracias a un traductor.
Lo segundo, es que me gustar�­a saber si la parte de "Dark Ages" se encuentra en versi�³n animada o s�³lo es un c�³mic, y adem�¡s donde podr�­a encontrarla.
Gracias por adelantado a quien pueda ayudarme. Un saludo.

Carolina - [Karomajochan@msn.com]

Hi, greg, I dont know if you will get this message, I hope you do, I am very grateful, thankful, and in love with your work in the gargoyles and young justice. Thank you for your input in the shows and involvement in them. I am so sorry that all your efforts to keep the gargoyles alive both in comics and animation have been blocked so many times, I get a special place in my heart for the gargoyles, I was in high school when that show came out on what is now cw in NYC. I had wished that is was possible to finish their stories and their happily ever after finale for the gargoyles and their universe. I recently discovered you ask a question page but it is locked out for now, I guess, and read some of the rude attitudes but I would also like you to know that there are incredibly grateful people who are blessed by your beautiful works on the shows I have mentioned above, I hope you get this comment to make up for the rude individuals out there.
federico - [shad0wcr0ss@yahoo.com]

Alright Jimi, hand me that Third Stone from the Sun! :D
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..." Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones

Secondus!
Chip - [<------The League of Extraordinary Nerds Here!]
"An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason." C. S. Lewis

FIRST!!!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka