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Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 29, 2012

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Hey Greg, I'm a huge fan of you and your show Young Justice. I already love the start of this new season Invasion; but I wish it didn't leap 5 years. When the main heroes were of my age, things I guess were more relatable. Anyways I've got a question about Superboy new outfit; is his top some sort of latex material like Superman's or his cadmus solar suits, or is it just cloth material like season 1. It would be really cool if Superboy got an official costume!! To be honest I've been waiting for one since season 1. His solar suit would really be helpful on planet Raan since of the yellow sun.
Anyways the choice is of course for you guys to make. Love the show, and I wish you guys the best of luck for this new season!

P.S: No more hiatus please :)
.

Mag - [Cruzerflash@gmail.com]
Mister E

Masterdramon> Incidentally, have you considered deleting the questions that end up answer by a recently aired episode? Like the ones asking if there would be a time skip?
Antiyonder

Antiyonder - Indeed. And those aren't just spoiler requests, they're original ideas.

But honestly, why does anyone keep asking for spoilers when the rules are clear and Greg never breaks them? All of those questions will either be seen to early enough to get a NO COMMENT or late enough to get "well, you've already seen the answer to this by now".

B

Quick follow up. There is a Korean word for "twin sister", so they could have written (but they didn't): Dude! That's your twin sister!
Richard Jackson

Rebel> Correct. In Korean, there's not really an age neutral word for "sister". Whoever wrote the subtitles had to make a choice to go younger or older.
Richard Jackson

Richard Jackson - In some languages, there is more than one word for sister, and the word itself might mean "younger sister" or "older sister".
Rebel

Antiyonder: Indeed. But it'll be deleted in under 24 hours anyway, so I don't sweat it so much.

The sheer amount of repeated questions I'm going to have to approve, however...ugh. Not looking forward to tomorrow. XP

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=16049

Self-entitlement much? I mean a good portion of spoiler requests at least don't have someone insisting that their questions should be answered despite the violations.

Antiyonder

RICHARD> I imagine that would have ticked the real Tuppence Terror off. ;)
Algernon
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil

I've gotten a chance to watch some Young Justice episodes with Korean subtitles.I'm having fun studying that way. The first time Megan said "Hello, Megan!", they just wrote it in English in the subtitles and below in Korean they just explained that it's a gesture she always does. And for "Dude! That's your sister!", that was subtitled in Korean as "Dude! That's your younger sister!"
Richard Jackson

dear,greg have you every thought of having a werewolf superhero on young justice. well it would be cool to see one. here's a character i really want you to keep. her name is alice aka Weregirl. she has white hair, yellow eyes, and she has pale skin. hope you like the idea. sincerly, Izzy
Izabella perez - [kingdomgirl24@gmail.com]
Izabella Perez

Kris>"Are any of the others (canon and/or decent) ?"

Maybe it would be better to seek them out and form your own opinion about their quality. It couldn't hurt.

Harlan Phoenix

Kris: "Kingdom" was supposed to air as the 26th episode of the season, but it aired late, probably due to animation retakes (and if the 'two Hudsons and a Bronx' scene is any indication, it probably needed a lot of rework.) "The Price" also aired out of order, but it was early, rather than late.

TGC's animation wasn't very good overall. For most of the season, we alternated between Akom (better known for their work on "The Simpsons") and Hanho (usually a competent studio, but clearly viewing this as filler work). Between them, we got animation that was, at best, mediocre and lifeless, and at worst downright laughable.

Two episodes had better animation quality than the others. "Seeing Isn't Believing" was animated by WD-Australia, and their take on "Gargoyles" was, to say the least, interesting. More fluid than we were used to. And the series finale was animated by our usual WD-Japan studios. (Albeit not on their best day, but off-day Japan is still better than the other eleven episodes.) Writing wise, they all sucked off course, but you knew that already.

Congrats on busting your "Future Tense" cherry.

Spen

Kris: One thing that may be confusing you is that Greg W. was indeed slated to take over writing of the Marvel comic in its second run, but that run was ultimately cancelled before anything penned by Greg could see the light of day.

The one script he did manage to finish for that run, however, was incorporated into canon over ten years later as Clan-Building Issue #6, "Reunion."

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!

Kris> Greg did not write any of the 11 Marvel comics. ANY. They are not canon and will never be canon. As for the episode order, the DVD order is correct. Kingdom originally aired too soon. Check GargWiki's episode guide.2dff5
Greg Bishansky

The Marvel comics are not canon and quite bad. I didn't believe how bad they really are until I had a look at them at the Avalon Archive...
And Brooklyns face is terribly deformed there... I've never seen a picture of him that was worse.
You won't miss anything if you don't read them. Worship the SLG comics instead.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Finally saw "Future Tense" (watched ahead a bit while buddy's at work), sooo good. Knew most of the beats of the story from you guys talking about it on here over the years, but...yeah, wow.

Thanks for the help, Brainiac (and to our much-esteemed Jonny Modlin as well, who e-mailed me--thanks for the suggestion, but I'm already a member of the Disney Movie Club and Disney Movie Rewards, I bring up Gargs whenever there're surveys. I'm not going out of my way to e-mail them about Season 2 Part 2 again, I'll just wait it out at this point).

Still open to quality DVD rips, if anyone has a trusted source, but otherwise I'll just YouTube. The quality's fine. My only potential issue--are the eps ordered properly by the uploader ? One dude has "Kingdom" as episode 31 of Season 2, whereas the DVDs finished off with it as #26 (and I'll admit, I don't recall it airing that early back in the `90s, I always remember the Loch Ness monster ep coming before and "Kingdom" breaking the Avalon World Tour up further in, but it DOES make more sense to check in earlier with the Manhattan clan and see them wondering where Goliath/Elisa/Bronx are). Just wanna watch in the best order, whatever makes sense.

Clan-Building, THEN Bad Guys. Got it. Simplicity.

Are any of the Marvel Garg comics worth getting or downloading ? Didn't Greg Weisman pen one called "The Egg" ? Is it canon ? Is it decent ? Are any of the others (canon and/or decent) ?

Completely forgot about the Disney/Marvel merger somehow. Maybe more Garg comics are that much likelier to happen now ?

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]

IGN interview with Greg Weisman and Brandon Vietti about Season 2 of YJ:I.
http://tv.ign.com/articles/122/1223871p1.html

Anthony Tini

Kris> The episodes are still available on YouTube (a simple search should find them), though obviously not in HD quality. They're all rips from Toon Disney (now DisneyXD), so some portions have been excised, but our own Greg Bishansky has conveniently uploaded a short video to YouTube containing all the missing sections: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRmVeZYXNr8

As to the trades, there are indeed some corrections between the original issues and the trades. In particular, Issue #6 had major production problems in the earliest versions; it was even offered for free replacement. Earlier issues have problems ranging from a misspelled word to a missing title splash. I'd say stick with the trades or, if you've got both, compare them and show the corrections when needed. It should also be obvious that Clan-Building is a better starting point in terms of overall flow from Hunter's Moon since the first two issues adapt The Journey (the one episode of The Goliath Chronicles that Greg actually worked on).

Bad Guys is pretty much a separate beast with occasional references to what already happened in the TV series. However, the major dates that things happen on would put most of Bad Guys as taking place after the "end" of Issue #12. As to issues vs. trade, I don't think there were as many (if any) problems with this series, so I'd use the comics over the trades (since the trade only has the individual issue covers in black-and-white - you can find the one missing color cover on the GargWiki if you're interested).

As to the rights, SLG still can (and does) sell the three trades, but I very much doubt there's a hardcover edition coming. As far as I know, what's out at this point is all they can produce since Disney pulled their license. As to Boom!, that's pretty much dead. Boom tried to get in touch about Gargoyles but Disney never responded. Then the Marvel acquisition happened and Boom! eventually lost its license for the other Disney properties it was already working on.

Hope that covers everything you wanted to know. If you've got more questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Hey all, a few questions as I get someone into Gargoyles. My dude Gary sorta remembers the series from his youth, but was too young to REALLY appreciate it, didn't see all the eps or have slavish fanboy devotion to it, so wasn't aware of how DAMN GOOD it is/was !

We just finished the Season 2 Part 1 set. Any recommendations on how to see the remainder of the series, in the best quality (and uncut!) that's available online ? I remember spotting some up on YouTube for streaming a while back (they've likely been taken down, but maybe someone else has 'em on offer), I guess I could connect my netbook to my TV and it'd be decent. DVDs would be better though. I'm clueless when it comes to torrents, but I can get Gary to check for 'em if it comes down to it (just don't want him to peak at the eps and spoil himself as he's checking for quality and completion). E-mail me if you don't wanna say on here (just to reassure, if Disney ever wises up and offers the remainder of the series as a MANUFACTURE-ON-DEMAND title--the route other studios like Warner Brothers have gone, when it comes to iffy sales on older shows like The Pirates of Darkwater and the like--I'll purchase so I can support the show and complete my set).

Before we get to the comics, is there anything I should include while we're viewing ? I explain little things that I remember from the FAQ & archive, fun details about gargoyle culture (the hair stroking, the fact that male garg eyes glow white and females' red due to hormones or something like that...more stuff that I need to re-study). I know that I could probably also let him hear Carl Johnson's Panther Queen piece that was never used in that particular episode (an ep I've never seen, along with two or three others in the second half of Season 2). Were there ever any storyboards or pieces of concept art shown to the public that were meant to accompany that bit of the score music ?

I know I'm to skip The Goliath Chronicles. It's cool, I know why--Gary's curious to check it out and I DO want a re-watch, if only for the great voice actors (can't recall if the eps were animated well--Seasons 1 and 2 are all over the map for animation crispness & fluidity, but usually decent or flat-out beautiful), but I'll stress to him that it's to be ignored and we'll probably only watch it after we're done with the SLG comics. Will probably show him "The Journey" after reading Clan-Building issue #1.

Main question is with the comics. Were there any corrections or changes made in the Clan-Building Volume 1 trade paperback from the issues ? I have the issues (however far they made it up to before the license was lost or the series was canned, issue #8 I think). I'd prefer to give him the nice larger format of the singles/floppies up until he's forced to read the smaller digests (Clan-Building Volume 2) for the remainder of the series, but if there were improvements in Volume 1, I'll just give him that.

Also, I vaguely recall some of the events (or maybe just one?) in Bad Guys and Clan-Building crossing over, or at least lightly referencing eachother. Is there a preferred/ideal order in which to read each issue of the two series ? And if not, if they can be comfortably read separately, which one do you think should be read first, for the nicest and most logical flow after we're done with "Hunter's Moon Part 3" ?

Does SLG still have the rights to reprint Gargoyles ? I was hoping for an all-encompassing hardcover collection. I've missed out on discussions, has there been any indication that Disney's interested in reviving the comic at Boom (or wherever their licensed comic properties live now) ?

Thanks all !

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]

Up yours, Marcus. Season 2 sucks already.
NotSoMuch

Maybe a bit off topic but I'm curious about something. Has this site ever thought about getting an IRC chat room? Or is that an even bigger no no to ask than asking what Zatanna's age is.
Jose Bremen

Jeez. Looking through the unanswered questions, I can understand why Greg gets so annoyed. Seems like everybody there is expecting him to ruin the surprises in his own ongoing show.

As for the timeskip, It was somewhat offputting, but I have faith in the group doing the show to keep it good considering how great they kept season 1.

Jose Bremen

Melissa> At a guess, those posters are on the YJ wiki and are just desperate to be able to claim they got the age info and/or they posted it first.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

I'm honestly nonplussed at the DESPERATE NEED some questioners have to know the exact ages of characters. What's that about? My hat's off to the moderators for their patience, I expect in their place, after the umpteenth "How old is ___?" I'd just start deleting them out of hand.

Anyway, "Happy New Year" was my first Young Justice episode (I know, I know, where've I been?), so I'm not freaked out by a time jump. I liked it, didn't love it, but am willing to tune in next week.

Melissa

some of you wining about season 2 are self-entitled pricks....

keep up the good writing Greg.. hopefully it gets renewed for a season 3

Marcus - [ultimate221@gmail.com]

About "Happy New Year!", [SPOILER] I'm glad that Lobo was only in the first bit. Not that I hate him, but I don't think he's interesting enough to be the focus of a season premiere, which is what the Cartoon Network synopsis made it sound like. I expect him to return. [/SPOILER]
B

FTBM, Todd, and Melissa> All good points.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Just saw the first installment from season two of young justice!! I'm not going to give a spoiler, but i will say, WHAT JUST HAPPENED???
CHLJ - [charles.lott2@live.com]

I have a limited edition,numbered Gargoyle litho "Goliath Surveys His Domain" from 1994 by Thomas Blackshear. The original plates have been destroyed and the litho was created using a special custom ink process and produced on museum quality acid free stock.Mint condition. Does anyone know what it's worth?I would be happy to send a picture if you need to see it.
Thank you,Ava

Ava Gluck - [aprilstarr2001@yahoo.com]
Ava Gluck

From what I've been able to gather, the people who think there'll be a time skip do so because many of the character designs have apparently changed. But I agree that, with the television series likely to answer such questions before the questions would reach Greg in the size of this queue, it doesn't make much sense to submit them.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

And the queue has broken 1,000.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Rebel and Masterdramon> It's asked and answered anyway, since Greg already revealed that the time skip (if there is one at all) is less than a single day: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=893
Supermorff

Rebel: I think it's best not to make assumptions, when the answers to how this season is going to be framed are coming in about twelve hours.

I certainly wish some people in the queue would do the same...the amount of times the question "is there a time skip" got asked this week has already dwarfed "how old is Zatanna." XP

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!

Heh. You know it almost seems we're about to start the 3rd season of Young Justice and the 2nd season got skipped. :(

I'm sure it'll be great either way but I would have LOVED to have seen what all went on during the time between the events of Auld Acquantance and the start of the second season.

Rebel

Young Justice: Invasion will premiere new episodes through May: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1319
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Arlo> I personally also take into account MacBeth's mindset, beyond even the already mentioned suicidal depression and Demona-obsession. He's from medieval times. We think of kidnapping and holding hostages as cowardly and dishonorable, even the province of terrorists. But back in MacBeth time, it was a common and acceptable part of warfare. Viewed through that lens, MacBeth may feel he has no reason to feel guilty about the events of "Enter MacBeth." Heck, for that matter, Goliath might not think so either.
Melissa

One comment on Macbeth (not directly part of the discussion, but something that I'd thought of for a while). We now know a bit about what he was doing during those nine hundred years of hunting Demona, thanks to the Stone of Destiny story in the comics:

1. He took part in the Battle of Bannockburn on the Scottish side.

2. He took part in the theft/recovery (depending on whether you're English or Scottish) of the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey in 1950, and tried to mend it at Arbroath Abbey the following year, before it was returned.

Both acts were clearly motivated by a patriotic love of Scotland, and certainly had nothing to do with Demona. So he'd kept other emotions alive in him for much of that time, at least, and had not let revenge consume him utterly, as she had done. (Compare the scene in "Tyrants" where Demona's so set on getting revenge on the humans who slaughtered a group of gargoyles that she won't even pause to provide a Wind Ceremony for the gargoyles whom she's out to avenge.)

Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

@Arlo - just positing a theory here, but sometimes I think MacBeth's code of honor is as much about his personal pride as it is decency. Which isn't to say he's not honorable (generally speaking), but I suspect his definition is more limited than yours. It seems to mostly boil down to stuff like not killing the helpless - and I doubt that he ever much considers an awake and functional gargoyle to be helpless.
And I think when the issue of Demona comes up, he tends to get hyper-focused on her above everything else.
And it occurred to me, what he was pulling on "Dominique" is pretty shady when you think about it - notice he waited until AFTER she married him before he was going to tell her the truth about himself. You know if Demona had not been leading him along the whole time, his confession after the fact would have been grounds for annulment for "Dominique". Its not hard to understand why he did that, but even so, that's quite an anvil to drop on someone only after they've made vows to you.

FTBM2010

Thanks for all the insights, guys. I swear, there really is no reason to keep flooding the Ask Greg queue, because this really is the best place to get a wide variety of viewpoints on these sorts of questions.

Greg B>Interesting insights on his behavior in "Pendragon." That does make a lot of sense, that that was his way of looking for purpose.

I'm actually a bit surprised that some people didn't feel his actions in "Enter Macbeth" were that bad. I guess I see a lot of emotion in Goliath in that episode, and while it's true Macbeth didn't cause any ever-lasting damage, he did put the clan through some turmoil for a bit. To be fair, a lot of Goliath's emotions were not only about what Macbeth did, but also his slow realization that the clan would have to leave the castle. But I don't think his emotions over what Macbeth had done should be discounted. Having a stranger just come in out of nowhere and kidnap members of your family, leaving you with no idea how to find him, is sure to be heart-wrenching, with or without all the other stuff Goliath was dealing with. So I've always felt that an honorable person would have felt guilty over that, if not then, then at least after he started to pick himself up again after "Sanctuary." Maybe you are right about his advocating for the gargoyles' rights as being some bit of atonement, although I'd think an honorable person would want to do more.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

From my blog:

Well, where do I start? Well, I suppose I will start by saying that I almost feel bad for putting him on this list at all. He has a strong sense of honor, if skewed. He's worked against our protagonists and with them. But, in the end I think the only side he's on is his own. While he is more of an ally now, that doesn't mean he hasn't been part of the problem before and won't be part of the problem again.

His story is terrific. Rather than follow the Scottish Play, the story we got was a loose adaptation of the true history of Macbeth and his reign over Scotland. Yes, we had Demona and gargoyles, and the Weird Sisters and sorcery, but we also had a history lesson unfolding, even if we didn't know it at the time. And it's terrific. To this day, it's my favorite tale in the entire mythos.

When we first meet him, the centuries have certainly taken their toll. He is not above attacking the gargoyles, taking hostages, and committing grand theft. And yet, we never once think of him as evil, despite doing some pretty unethical and amoral things. That changes with "City of Stone" when we learn his story and feel sorry for him. But at the same time, I think the perception among many fans has swung around too far. Yes, we understand him more now. But that wasn't his redemption. Far from it.

I think the tail end of "Sanctuary" and "Pendragon" is where the change begins, and I stress this, begins. In the former, he learned that he is still capable of love. In the latter, while some didn't quite get why he competed so violently against King Arthur for Excalibur, well, it always made sense to me. This is a man who has suffered so much, who viewed his existence as sad and endless, that he was looking for something to give it meaning and maybe justify every terrible thing that has ever happened to him. Being the new Once and Future King would serve that purpose, wouldn't it? Well, it doesn't quite work out for him, but over the course of the series we have seen this man go from suicidal renegade to a man who doesn't think life is completely worth living, and now seeks purpose in his existence. Did he look like a fool clutching that broken sword? Well, he was a broken man. And once you hit rock bottom, the healing can begin.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

"The vibe I got from Macbeth, in his introduction episode, was that of a villain."

What's interesting to me there is that, when I rewatched Enter Macbeth years after I'd finished watching the show (there was about a five year period after the show went off the air on regular channels where I mostly forgot about it before I rediscovered the fandom), I was surprised what a pure villain Macbeth was. I'd gotten used to the tragic, multi-layered character and had forgotten that, at first, he was as much their enemy as Xanatos. He's probably more like Xanatos than any of the other villains, in that he's A: a normal human boosted by technology, and B: has no animosity towards most of the gargoyles, but is only using them for other ends.

As for whether he feels guilt, I'd say that through City of Stone he's so depressed and suicidal that he doesn't really have the normal range of emotions. It's not until Sanctuary that he really starts to reconnect with his own humanity, and I think the grace Goliath shows him by helping him deal with Demona's betrayal left a big impact. We see him again in Pendragon, where he does fight with the gargoyles (though not Goliath), but he doesn't seem near as vicious as he had in the past. And in The Journey, Macbeth is arguing in favor of gargoyle rights. I'd say that, at this point, he has accepted the guilt of his actions, and trying to help them is his way of trying to gain repentance. This continues in The Rock trilogy, where he fights on the side of the gargoyles. He's not overcome with guilt, but nothing he's done is really that awful, and he is trying to make up for it.

In short: When we first met Macbeth, he was in a very deep emotional hole, and it took most of the animated series to see him climb out. We're just now seeing what he's like having accepted his lot in life. Clearly, there's only one conclusion: We need more comics!

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

Maybe... but the character design sheets didn't exactly show a smashing hammer weapon either. Obviously, they took some liberties whether they knew anything about his character or not. They should've just given him his trenchcoat and a cool lightning weapon or something.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"...nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." - Ripley, "Aliens"

I think the only thing the makers of the action figures had to work with were character design sheets. If they had actually seen "Enter Macbeth," they would have known that Macbeth wouldn't attack a sleeping gargoyle.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Hey, I live for subterfuge!" -Puck ("Possession")

That makes me think about that Macbeth action figure... the "strike hammer" one... the producers probably only saw that first episode (Enter Macbeth) and thought he would be something like a "hunter" and gave him that tool for destroying Gargoyles.
I would love to see a real "hunter" action figure, though.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

@Arlo The vibe I got from Macbeth, in his introduction episode, was that of a villain. It wasn't until later episodes, looking back, that I realized that he was just using the New York Clan to try to get to Demona. And after seeing more of his past, it was great to put the pieces together and realize that he has had some experience working with and fighting against their species.

So did he ever feel guilt for his actions? Possibly. I like to think that Macbeth, who seemed very one dimensional at first, grew over the years with the interactions that he had with the New York Clan. In time, a mutual respect was built and there was no time for guilt to weigh on his mind.

Anthony Tini

Count me as another person who would pay good money for a copy of "Gargoyles In Celtic Legend".

As for his actions, I agree that it didn't seem like he wanted to do the gargoyles any real harm in "Enter Macbeth". At first he politely offered for them to live at his place. Maybe it was a trick or something, but I don't think so. I think he thought that they could provide good leads into finding Demona. And maybe, just maybe, he was a little lonely and longed for the good old days when he was allied with a gargoyle clan. Maybe having them at his place would've been a little piece of his old life before everything went sour. If so, i imagine this longing was subconcious and that his main and clear motive was finding and killing Demona. So, when the gargoyles refused his offer he resorted to doing whatever he had to do to achieve that motive. And when he captured a few of them, he did them no harm. He even seemingly allowed Bronx to escape, probably to lure in Demona. He got Goliath instead and learned the truth about their relationship and from that point onward in the episode, it seems to me that he was mostly just trying to escape.

Later, in "Lighthouse...", it was clear that the gargoyles were not part of the plan at all until they got themselves involved with the Scrolls. Once he had a gargoyle captive, he realized that testing out the supposed spells on that gargoyle could aid him in his quest to kill Demona. Once he realized there were no spells, he let all the gargoyles go peacefully, with the Scrolls!

His appearances in "City Of Stone" wasn't about any of the gargoyles at all (aside from Demona). He barely interacted with them at all in those events. And after that he was under the Weird Sisters' spell until he arrived in Paris. And as you mentioned, he was more of an ally to the gargoyles in "Sanctuary" than anything else.

His actions in "Pendragon" again only caused him conflict with the gargoyles incidently, I think. he only fought them because they were interfering with his goal. I think the goal this time was to achieve Excalibur and thus find a new purpose for his life and again, once he realized how things were and how they were meant to be he dropped his antagonism to the gargoyles (and Arthur). And of course, after that he has seemingly become an ally to the gargoyles.

I think it is clear that Macbeth, moreso than Xanatos even, was no ordinary villain. In fact, I hesitate to call him a villain at all. It is almost like he and the gargoyles have just had a few misunderstandings and differences of opinion... not that that is any reason to shoot at somebody. Still, given that up until "City Of Stone", Macbeth could be considered suicidally depressed, I can at least understand his violent tendencies, if not condone them. And maybe Macbeth has seen this too. He probably does have a little guilt in his treatment of the gargoyles in the past, but I suspect that his supportive appearance on NightWatch was a step in making amends (of course, he was possibly just trying to gain their favor for help in the Stone Of Destiny affair. In any case, since working together with Hudson and Lex (and Arthur and the London Clan), I suspect that they have all moved past old grievances and consider each other allies (or maybe even friends) generally speaking.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"...nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." - Ripley, "Aliens"

@Arlo - I think Macbeth's code of honor allows for a lot of grey-ends-justifies-the-means area. Especially at the point in life he was when we (the audience) first met him. If anything, I think he was annoyed with Demona for pre-emptively burning the bridges he was planning to use against her.

There's also the question of if he ever intended to do the gargoyles any real lasting damage, if he didn't have to. I think his first plot was pretty straightforward - capture them to lure Demona, then kill her. I don't think he was ever planning to wholesale massacre them if it wasn't, in his mind, necessary. But he was pretty on edge with everything in the beginning, and in the first ("present day") two seasons, really, I don't think we see MacBeth at his moral "best".

I do wonder how much interaction he's had with gargoyles over the centuries, if any, or if its pretty much all limited to his experiences in the 1100's. He seems pretty positive on them as a race (and granted, he owed the glory and stability of his kingdom to Demona and her clan as much as its downfall, so I could go either way). Also, I'd love to get a peek inside the book he wrote....

FTBM2010

So tell me, do you guys think Macbeth felt any guilt for attacking the gargoyles in "Enter Macbeth" after Goliath revealed that Demona was their enemy too? After all, he'd said he did all that to them so she would come to free them, and then to discover that she was their enemy, the way Goliath put it... given that Macbeth hated her, it probably would have made Goliath's clan seem all the more noble in his eyes, that they didn't get along with her, a fellow gargoyle from Scotland, no less.

I've always wondered about that, because given that we know Macbeth is honorable, one would think he would have felt guilt over that. Yet he doesn't appear to. He attacks them again in his next appearance, "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time," and even threatens to use the spells on Broadway. Granted, he relents in the end, but that seems to be more out of his basic honor than any guilt over what he'd done to them. He doesn't really seem to change his demeanor toward them until Goliath saves him in "Sanctuary." Maybe he only started feeling guilty then? But that seems inconsistent with his basic honorable approach. You would think he'd feel guilty for attacking an innocent person just because, without that person having to show him they were good first.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Glad you all enjoyed SFDebris' review of Awakenings. He plans on doing a couple more episodes next month so I'll post 'em here as they come.
Algernon

"Ah, Counsellor Troi, I might have known..."

That review was freakin hilarious. Very well done.

ANd I love the "Love Boat Style hat" reference. LMAO!

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

Little creativity deamon: "Things you'd like to hear a character say but probably never will."

I'll go first:

[I}Macbeth is doing the laundry...[/I]

"Out Damn Spot!"

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

TODD> Hufflepuff, represent!
Algernon

Pics: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1316 and a clip from the season 2 premiere: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1317

Also, double-check your DVR/TiVo record settings: Young Justice may be known as "Young Justice: Invasion" in TV schedules as of this Saturday.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

A little something for everyone here who signed on to Pottermore and who got sorted into the same house as me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Z5_wipT2o

Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

I think my favorite part was the commentary on the "Howard Hughes Act."
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

I think the Brendan and Margot bit was my favorite.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Loved the review.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Agreed. He really had me laughing at my own stuff.
Greg Weisman

Algernon> Thanks for the link. That's a great review!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"...nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." - Ripley, "Aliens"

GREG B.> For the sake of my emotional and mental well being I may have to give up reading the Unanswered Questions queue.
Algernon
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil

Has anyone checked the ASK GREG queue?

http://images.dipdive.com/1255025099/mediaItem/81527/167518/deadpool_common_sense.jpg

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

BTW, for those who are interested; internet reviewer and perennial wise ass, Sfdebris, has posted a review of Awakening on his site.

http://sfdebris.com/videos/animation/gargoyles1.asp

Algernon
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil

In case anyone hasn't seen it already, here's a trailer for Invasion:

http://dcnation.kidswb.com/video/Young-Justice/Young-Justice-Invasion-trailer/07475b0c-055b-456a-bdfb-c26a6f2a3dde

It's different from that other trailer which mostly contains stuff from Season 1 and only has Season 2 stuff in the last 10 seconds or so. This one is almost all Season 2 clips.

Rebel

TODD> I wonder if he apprenticed with any Scottish mages during the 10th century? ;)
Algernon

Greg just mentioned at "Ask Greg" that Wotan (of "Young Justice") is "an immortal Viking sorcerer". That got my attention, because his name had always (when I first heard of him, at least - which was only after "Young Justice" came out) made me think of the Wagnerian version of Odin's name.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

Personally, I'd like to hear Jeff Bennett take a crack at Gnash.
Algernon

I think I'd like to read Katana dialogue first before I speculate as to who would be a good actor for the part.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Also, who'd like to speculate on who would be best as Katana's VA? I personally have no clue, but if it were to be someone from, say, anime voice-acting, well, that'd be something!

As far as Gnash is concerned, I imagine Greg Cipes' voice coming out of his beak. It just fits, IMO.

Anonymous

It's equally possible (if less exciting) that Katana didn't have any lines in "Clan-Building" since she appeared so near the end (the third to last page) that there wasn't enough room to give her anything to say. If we get more "Gargoyles" stories in the future, Greg will probably give her a speaking role.

But it's funny that this was brought up, because I was thinking this afternoon, before I read the comments about Katana here, about another "Gargoyles" character introduced in the comics, who hardly spoke (he got just one line, as best I can recall): Pistol in "Bad Guys". He's usually silent, speaks only once, but is the most formidable member of Falstaff's gang, the only member whom the Redemption Squad doesn't succeed in taking down. (A dramatic contrast to his Shakespearean counterpart, a loud-mouthed braggart constantly giving bombastic speeches - often parodies of lines from the plays of Shakespeare's competitors.)

Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=12022
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

I would guess that while Brooklyn was on his timedance when he met Katana, he probably learned a lot more of her language than she learned of his, simply because Brooklyn would be the only gargoyle speaking English and he'd be surrounded by gargoyles speaking Japanese. He'd get the benefit of total immersion and probably be able to speak Japanese passably well within a relatively short time period to be able to communicate with Katana and the rest of her clan. It wouldn't really make sense for all of her clan to learn to speak English just to accommodate Brooklyn when he's the one that's in the language minority.

After the two of them timedanced away, they probably mostly spoke Japanese to each other (at least initially) when they were alone. After all, if they both knew Japanese then it would be easier to speak that than use English, which Katana probably knew less of than Brooklyn knew of Japanese. But they also may have spent quite a length of time in English-speaking places where Katana would have picked up a lot of English, especially with Brooklyn around to teach her what the words mean. Even if Katana doesn't know a lot of English at the time she arrives in Manhattan with Brooklyn, Nash, and Egwardo, I'm sure she'll pick it up pretty fast on account of the total immersion thing going on.

That's just my own personal guess, who knows?

Rebel

I like the thought that Gargoyles probably don't need to talk a lot because they have other ways to communicate (like animals)... but I'm not sure how strong these "skills" are for more civilised Gargoyles like the ones of Ishimura and Manhattan.
At least they still use and understand the instinctive stuff like moving ears (body language) and different sounds, of that I'm sure. Because something like that can't be unlearnt.

I wonder how well Gargoyles from entirely different places of the world, or even very different eras (like, stone age and future) could understand each other without words... even animals of the same species have some kind of dialect.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

@RandomStan I hope she understands English but only speaks Japanese like Rainicorn in Adventure Time.
Anthony Tini

Having finished my marathon of the canon Gargoyle episodes (boo Goliath Chronicles!), I re-read my SLG comic trades. And I thought of a theory about Katana I wanted to run by you guys.

Now, she only gets three panels in the last comic, same as Nashville and Fu-Dog. She doesn't speak a word when meeting the Manhattan Clan. That, coupled with the canon-in-training comment by Greg W that she may not completely understand Brooklyn's joke of calling their egg 'Egwardo', leads me to believe that maybe she doesn't know very much English.

Perhaps for all these years, Katana and Brooklyn have gotten by with very few words in common. That there might be a bit of a language gap between Katana and her new Clan.

Thoughts?

RandomStan

Speaking of "everyone's favorite question," I was going through the sources on the Wiki page on Merlin today, and look what I came across:

"Question received on Mon, August 07, 2000 03:01:14 AM
Vasy writes...
1.What did titania whisper into fox's ear at he end of the gathering part2

Greg responds...
1. Do you think they'll be wondering about this in Ask Greg four years from now?"
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=3139

lulz

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

PumpkinCat (I'm cautious about giving away the numbers at present).
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

StormBat30659 for anyone who's interested.
Algernon
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil

Masterdramon> I hadn't realised either until Todd and Pheon mentioned it last week.
Supermorff

I just joined last night (didn't even know it was up and running until this discussion occurred, LOL). The username's AccioSword25542, but I haven't gotten to the sorting yet.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!

I'm on Pottermore too. Can't remember my username right now, but I'll look it up when I get back home this weekend. I'm a Hufflepuff, although like Todd I expected Ravenclaw. In fact, I would say Hufflepuff is probably the least accurate for me, since they're supposed to be hard working. Oh well.

I suck at wizard duelling, to the extent that I've now stopping playing for fear of giving away any more points.

Supermorff

hey just finished the last episode and just had to say i think you did an awesome job! one thing i will say is that i felt the superboy/miss martian thing was a bit weird, even before we found out she was white.
Ben - [ben-1990@live.com]

How long has it been since we last discussed one of the favorite mysteries in the Gargoyles Universe? I'd almost forgotten about that one.

To those upset that we don't know the answer to that question, put it in perspective; Norse mythology buffs have wondered for longer than that what Odin whispered in Balder's ear when Balder lay on his funeral pyre.

Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

Greg wouldn't even tell me what Oberon was saying to Angela. lol

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=12424

Richard Jackson

CHARLIE> Fifteen years, and Greg still won't answer that.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Hey nice to find this place. I've been through the ask Greg list and did not see the answer there. Does anybody know what Tatiana whispers to Fox at the end on The Gathering part 2? I just started re-watching the series and this stuck out at me.
Charlie - [halomon1357@yahoo.ca]
CS

So many people on Pottermore! ...Darn you, sign-up page, let me past your stupid second step so I can join them!

FTBM2010> I'd peg Reynard as more of a Hufflepuff.

Ross

BISHANSKY - Reminds me of the theory that the Twilight books are really one of Voldemort's Horcruxes that Harry missed, made during Cedric's murder in the graveyard.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

Oh and MacBeth - Gryffindor, but he has Ravenclaw/Slytherin qualities as well.
FTBM2010

Just for shtsngiggles, how about Houses for the Garg-verse? (forgive me if this has been done before).

My guesses:
Demona/Xanatos/Fox - Slytherin
Goliath/Elisa/Angela - Gryffindor
Hudson/Bronx/Petros - Hufflepuff
Renard/Broadway - Ravenclaw
Brooklyn - I could go Gryffindor or Slytherin. Prob the former
Lexington - I can't guess...Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Slytherin I could guess for him.
Chavez - Gryffindor
Matt - Slytherin/Ravenclaw
The Mutates - no idea. Probably Hufflepuff for Maggie and Claw at least. Fang's a Slytherin.
Thailog - DUH

FTBM2010

GREG B.> You're the Token Evil Teammate of the fandom, Greg. ;-)
Algernon

Todd: Exactly my thoughts regarding Merlin -- I definitely chalk it up to JKR's own quote of "Oh dear, Maths."

If anyone wants a Gryffindor in their collection of Pottermore "friends" you can find me at PatronusWolfsbane28 (but send an email or something so I know who's who -- especially since the user accounts are automatically double-blind) d:

Gargoyles SLG Comics: Definitely preaching to the choir in saying that the three trades are a fun read, but in particular I'll note just how surprised I was that I ended up really loving Bad Guys: Redemption, especially since, I'll admit, before its first issues it wasn't my first spinoff choice.

And hoo nelly, just realized its now been FIVE YEARS since the first new bit of Canon was released. Tempus Fugit, folks.

Young Justice: Forgot to mention this over the weekend, but wow, what a great season finale!

Potential Spoilers Below:
[SPOILER] Won't do a full review, but some definite highlights for me included the Team taking back the Watchtower (with a specific moment of Aqualad pulling -- in my eye -- a crazy bold move of opening the cargo bay and closing it to knock out Aqauman, Green Arrow, and Flash before they were sucked out into the vacuum of low-orbit.

Oh, and I know its Jeff Bennett, but Red Tornado's John Smith android to me just sounded a *bit* like Owen . . . you know, if Owen wasn't as wooden ;)

And seriously couldn't blame Zatanna for futilely trying to remove Doctor Fate's helmet . . . [/SPOILER]

Phoenician - [onephoenician at gmail dot com]
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka

TODD> <<BISHANSKY - Yep, I might have known that someone with a Xanatos avatar would be sorted into Slytherin. :)>>

Yeah! Well... you're in the house that gave us Edward Cullen! That's far, far, far more monstrous than anything Lord Voldemort has ever done. ;)

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

MELISSA - Yes, the comics are worth getting, and a lot better than the Goliath Chronicles. (They do start off with "The Journey", though a revised version - and also include one of the few good points of the Goliath Chronicles, in a scene between Hudson and Jeffrey Robbins.)

BISHANSKY - Yep, I might have known that someone with a Xanatos avatar would be sorted into Slytherin. :)

I've read that the "Welcome to Slytherin" page includes the statement that Merlin was in Slytherin. It's part of a "We're not all future Death Eaters" statement, although his disguising Uther as Gorlois to deceive Igraine does fit the more conventional view of the Slytherins as underhanded sneaks. (That last word originally came out as "snakes" in a typo - but in light of their symbol, it would have been an appropriate typo.) I do wonder about Merlin attending Hogwarts at all, though; the books indicate that it was founded about a thousand years before Harry Potter's time there, which would mean the late 10th century (around the same time as the original lives of Goliath and his clan), while Merlin is traditionally dated to the fifth century (and Rowling once indicated that she followed that dating), a few centuries before. It would be like Thomas Becket attending Harvard. (Though there are a few passages in the books that suggest similar slip-ups; for example, Nearly Headless Nick, who's been dead for five hundred years, is dressed like an Elizabethan gentleman - but five hundred years before Harry's time - the 1990's - would have been the reign of Henry VII, when the fashions were more late medieval.)

TINI - Congratulations on getting in. Things really get exciting in Chapter Five, when you take your shopping trip to Diagon Alley, and then Chapter Seven, when you get sorted.

Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

SPEN> https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=let+me+google+that+for+you.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Out of curiosity, what's Pottermore?
Spen

GREG B.> "I'm messing around on that site. I'm a Slytherin."

Why am I not surprised? ;P

Algernon

MELISSA> They're written by Greg Weisman, so yeah.

Clan Building Volume 1, Clan Building Volume 2, and Bad Guys: Redemption. Pick 'em up.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Greg Bishansky> They do rather suck, don't they? I remember losing interest during the original run. I don't think I stuck it through to the end.

No, I haven't read the comics. I was going to say I didn't know there WERE comics, but then I saw literally right next to this text box a "GET THE COMICS" link. Are they any good?

Melissa

MELISSA> We can talk about the Chronicles, but I think everyone in here, me included, hates the Chronicles. And not just because Greg wasn't involved... they were bad. What they did to Fox was terrible.

Have you read the comics?

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

Can we talk about The Goliath Chronicles? I've learned here on ASK GREG that Greg Weisman wasn't involved with them and they're considered non-canon, so I thought maybe discussion was off-limits.

I actually just wanted to complain about the ep Ransom sitting in my DVR, and how it turned the formerly awesome Fox into a hand-wringing pile of uselessness.

Melissa

If you guys are talking about Pottermore, I'm "RuneStar21531". Out of the five choices, it was the least lame. :) I didn't start my journey so I don't know what house I'm in. I'll play around with it after work.
Anthony Tini

Phoenician and Todd> I'm messing around on that site. I'm a Slytherin.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

That was mine. (The problems of posting from a library computer rathre than my home computer.)
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

I haven't seen "Auld Acquaintance" (I'll have to wait for it to come out on DVD) but Bishansky's review [SPOILER] in the part about Vandal Savage's motivations, has strengthened my suspicion that the Light is based on twisted idealism of "the greater good" variety rather than simple super-villains wanting to take over the world [/SPOILER].
Anonymous
I'm a Hufflepuff!

Todd Jensen> Shakespeare is indeed a jewel amongst writers, so I guess we can accept that instead of J is for Jewel.

On a whim, I looked up the birthstone that applies to the observed birthday of The Bard. Surprising no one, I'm sure, it's a diamond.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Tenth. (Haven't seen the second season of "W.I.T.C.H."

Happy birthday, William Shakespeare!

Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!

I is for Illusion!
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari

H is for Hunted
Chip
I knew. Hey, I'm a Detective. But it never mattered. You aren't your family. You're one of us~~Robin

Spen: We're quoting the first ten episodes of the second season of "W.I.T.C.H." since we've done the same for most other shows Greg W.'s been heavily involved in.

For the record, yours is "F is for Facade."

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!

G is for Garbage!

Just got myself started on the second season of W.I.T.C.H. last week, actually.

Ross

F is for... what the Frell is going on?
Spen

(5th)Fifth!!!!! E is for Enemy.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!

Okay, looks like I was C is for Changes.

But my B was better than yours, MD! ;)

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

FOURTH or "D is for Dangerous"
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka

B is for.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF_Ca45JRFs
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."

B is for Betrayal!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!

A is for Anonymous!
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!