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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending June 2, 2013

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Comet> Gargate was indeed the term I wanted. :) Thanks.
Shaiya - [steelclaw at fastmail dot fm]
for without the nerve to chance the storm, we can never sail into the sun...

Audra> How much would you be willing to charge? Cause I'm interested. :)
KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]

Hey everyone, just thought I would mention that I am planning to join Disney Movie Club and I am willing to get extra copies of S2V2. I don't really post here much but I am lurker and have been for years... But I will post back here after I make the orders to see if anyone wants to buy a copy from me. :) I plan to make the order on the day of June 25. :D I am excited, I hope this really happens.
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]

Shaiya> It is indeed possible that Dragons are a Gargate (not Gargoyle) variation. It is known that there were more Gargate species than just Gargoyles and Beasts, but it is also known that all Gargate species besides these two are extinct. One of the main features of the Gargate class is that they have wings that are NOT arms, something that makes them much different from other flying/gliding animals and also applies to many types dragons (except for some variations like Wyverns, Chinese Dragons and Tatzelwurms - sorry, I don't know what that last one is called in English, just google it).
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

I don't see why dragons and gargoyles couldn't belong to the same race. We have gargoyle beasts, after all, and gargoyles ARE a very broad race, in terms of visual effect. Some appear snake-like, some appear sphinx-like, so why not dragon-goyles?

Though I could be wrong, it doesn't seem like a huge jump imagination-wise. Maybe dragons were something like gargoyle ancestors, or are a type of gargoyle now extinct.

Or perhaps they are just like rhinoceros, and were regular creatures at some point, just with some unusual skills.

Shaiya - [steelclaw at fastmail dot fm]
"for without the nerve to chance the storm, we can never sail into the sun"

I have to agree, I have a feeling that dragons may be extinct, or at least reduced to an extremely small hidden population. (How about the possibility that some are still living in the Himalaya, since there are people claiming now and then to have seen one...)
But I still don't really think they are the Lost Race, although the thought is interesting.

Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Todd> Dragon-as-menace is human mythology, though. How much of that would just be propaganda on the part of our historical forebears?

In a world as richly mythological as Gargoyles, with only "By the Dragon" and the stone construct containing Excalibur as references to the legendary creatures (and one scene in the Dark Ages pitch), I have to think the dragons may be gone. Whether or not they were the Lost Race or even self-aware I leave as an unknown to be revealed later (though I do have my own thoughts on the matter).

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

It'd be kind of melancholy if dragons *were* the Lost Race, since that means they'd be all extinct. I know that most dragons in legend (except the Chinese ones) were menaces, but it's still a sad thought to think of an entire mythical species (and one as classic as dragons) gone.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Adam> Based on the origins that we've seen in the series - namely, the werepanthers - we can probably assume that most weres/vampires were similarly humans altered by magic. Dragons, if not the Lost Race, I'd imagine would probably be Children of Oberon. And Santa (if he exists at all) I would assume is a Child or a Halfling.
Ross

I assumed Santa was a Child of Oberon. What logical reason would there be to say he was an "off-shoot"?
Harlan Phoenix

Comet- So there are three races: The Lost Race, Gargoyles, Oberon's Children, and Humans. And the New Olympians (and their ancestors) are off-shoot from Oberon's Children. What about other "creatures" like dragons, werewolves, vampires, Santa Claus, and the like? How would you describe them? As off-shoots from Oberon's Children as well?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Adam> I don't think Dragons are one of the races...
The Lost Race was always something either arthropod- or squid-like for me.

Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Sorry for the double post, but does anyone think the Lost Race is Dragons?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

I am trying to sign up for this Disney movie thing and I don't see S2V2 as a choice. Does anyone know when we can order S2V2?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Does anyone have any idea if this set will include commentaries? It seems like Greg didn't know if this was going to be released, but maybe there were some already recorded.
FTBM

@Rebel Like I said earlier, if and only if, the Disney Movie Club is the ONLY place to buy Gargoyles S2V2, then I plan on purchasing additional copies so I can relieve myself from the obligation of purchasing over priced DVD options that I don't want in the future.

We'll see if June 25th is Christmas come early...

Anthony Tini

The art on the front of that fake cover was the cover of #1 of the Gargoyles comic.

The Phoenix Gate on the back was designed by Kythera for the Gathering of the Gargoyles webportal... whoever made this stole fanart.

Greg Bishansky

Awesome new on the DVD, although sucks as I'm in UK so no Disney movie club for me either. Hope this does get onto amazon soon after.

Btw - Anyone seen this page on Amazon?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00198X0YA
I know its an old page and unrelated to this new release, but that DVD cover art looks awesome, hopefully they have something like that. Anyone know who designed it?

Damien

Are Disney Movie Club DVD's real DVD's and not just some: "manufactured by demand, burnt to disc" -DVD's ?

Hope it comes to Amazon. No DMC to me because I live in Finland.

Cakith

I just skimmed the Toonzone thread and someone there said that all the Movie Club titles end up on Amazon, although you have to pay a little bit more for them. This would suggest that Amazon is a movie club member and turns around and sells them for a profit. But since there's no guarantee that Amazon will have it, I'd rather buy a copy from someone in the CR.

So, for any of you that are willing to buy 5 copies of Gargoyles S2V2 and sell the extras to the rest of us, sign me up! I've got Paypal or I could mail a check.

Rebel

Were the earlier Season 2 episodes censored when Disney released them on Youtube? I thought I had heard something about the word "terrorist" being censored out of "City of Stone, Part 1", for example.

And what about those drops of blood when Demona punches Goliath in "Vows"?

Since those weren't censored in the "Season Two, Volume 1" DVDs, and assuming that they were censored in the Youtube videos...

Well, I guess I shouldn't make an ass out of u and me.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

JONNY> <<When will Gargoyles Season 3 get released on DVD?>>

Never, it was released in graphic novel format.

Greg Bishansky

Excited that I will get Gargoyles Season 2, Volume 2 on DVD via Disney Movie Club to complete the season 2. Want all the episodes to be uncensored, unedited, uncut. What episodes will be on Gargoyles Season 2, Volume 2? When will Gargoyles Season 3 get released on DVD?
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210 at gmail dot com]
Jonny Modlin

KIRK> At this point, I'm going to assume they are edited so I can be pleasantly surprised when they're not.
Greg Bishansky

Is anyone else afraid the DVD will be cut/censored? Especially since that's how they released the episodes online.
Kirk

No mention of Angela either, and she's kinda prominent in this batch of episodes.
Greg Bishansky

No mention of Bronx, either. The poor gargoyle beast keeps getting left out of things.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Bishanky> Because [SPOILER] fuck [/SPOILER] Lexington.
Harlan Phoenix

Bishansky> Where is that from?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

The ancient struggle between heroes and villains continues among the skyscrapers and bridges of a modern metropolis as GARGOYLES returns for a second season. It's an adventure one thousand years in the making! Goliath, Hudson, Broadway and Brooklyn are back from their stone-cold sleep and ready to save humanity from evil gargoyle clans, banshees and legendary monsters. But will Demona's diabolical plan to exterminate mankind prove to be the Gargoyles' final reckoning? Prepare for thrills and chills in this collectible 3-disc DVD set of GARGOYLES Season 2 Volume 2.
Greg Bishansky

I'd be willing to buy a copy if someone were to sell any. Too poor to join the Disney Club and buy extra movies/DVDs.
KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]

So, if one was to do this Disney deal where they have to buy 4 extra DVDs to get S2V2, could one buy 5 copies of S2V2? And if that was the case, I would think that those who would do it would find buyers readily available in this room.

If we could buy 5 copies of S2V2, I think a couple of people could buy them and then sell them to the rest of us. I would be willing to do that. Anyone else want to?

Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Xanatos did use Othello based on Demona's suggestion of his being particularly useful against Goliath. Desdemona and Iago were included accidently because their remnants happened to be near Othello's when Xanatos collected them. The last time the three of them turned to stone is depicted in "The Rock".
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

I have a question about Coldstone.

Coldstone was made from the remains of three gargoyles in particular: Othello, Desdemona, and Iago. However, many more were slaughtered during the Wyvern Massacre.

Why did Demona and Xanatos use the remains of those three gargoyles in particular to create Coldstone? Were they the only remains that could be salvaged for that purpose, or did Demona have some particular reason to use the remains of those three and no others? (I assume that Xanatos wouldn't, and that to him, one long-dead gargoyle would be as good as any other.)

I personally am inclined to believe that Demona specifically used the remains of those three gargoyles because a creature made from them would be particularly easy to use against Goliath.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

I hope that the Disney Movie Club is not the only way to buy a copy of S2V2. But it'd be better than not having it at all.

Wait and see I guess.

Gorebash

My mistake. I misread Anthony's post. He seems to know, but can't say.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Thumping in my heart, and it's hurting me to see. Smokestack blowing, now they're pouring heavy water on me." -Ian Anderson

That would be my main reason for being a bit skeptical. Greg usually gets the skinny on this sort of thing early on. If he doesn't know anything less than a month before it's supposed to come out...

Also, does anyone know if the search bar at the website shows upcoming releases or only what's currently out? Because "gargoyles" returned zero results.

No matter. I can wait a month. Out of all the so-called virtues, patience is still the most useful.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Thumping in my heart, and it's hurting me to see. Smokestack blowing, now they're pouring heavy water on me." -Ian Anderson

HoE> "Tim Curry playing a pirate... now can that not be awesome?"

It cannot.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

@Neill Greg knows about it. I tweeted him asking if he could confirm or deny the news and his response was "nope. Hope so though."
Anthony Tini

I'm not sure what to make of this. I know what they say about gift horses, but Disney knows that fans have been asking for this for a while, and then when it finally does happen, it requires you to spend extra money. Money that some fans may not have. So that does make it seem like we're being jerked off just a little.

Also, I've hit the point where I'm actually going to wait and see what actually happens come June 25th. If it is true, that would be great. I'll see if I can actually scrape the cash together for it. I've been looking over the website, and they don't have most of the animated titles I'm interested in, but they do have a fairly decent selection. I should be able to find four other things easily enough, or however many they require. Like Muppet Treasure Island. Tim Curry playing a pirate... now can that not be awesome?

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Thumping in my heart, and it's hurting me to see. Smokestack blowing, now they're pouring heavy water on me." -Ian Anderson

I really hope we finally get volume 2 of the second season. But it's actually not possible me for to join the Disney movie club, so I'd gladly buy a copy of Gargoyles S2V2 if someone offers it. Or maybe... I'm interested in the Weekenders, too. That is (AFAIK) the first Disney animated series that has completely been released on DVD. Now like Anthony Tini mentioned a lot of you may only be interested in the Gargoyles DVD, but that makes it really expensive if you only buy one of those. I'd be willing to pay anyone for Gargoyles S2V2 and both Weekenders DVD sets, so that means you already made 3 out of 5 purchases, maybe you then buy 2 copies of Gargoyles (one for you, one for... someone else) and you're done. I'd pay everything beforehand, of course!

Now let's hope this is real...
The next thing is: Does Greg know about it? And if so, will there be any extra stuff like commentaries on the set? I have doubts about that subject, but nevertheless if this set completes my collection I'd buy it straight away even if there aren't any extras on it.

Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail dot com]

@Wingless

"At present, only residents of the United States and its territories and Canada can be members of the Club. We cannot ship to APO and NPO addresses at this time."

Anthony Tini

I am exceedingly happy at the news that season 2 may be comming to DVD. That said, Patrick has E-Mailed Disney to see if it is indeed true.

I will pay what ever the movie club asks. There is another film they have that I want (DuckTales).

This may be great news, or a disappointment... I hope for the former.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

My question is-Is the Disney movie club available to anyone OUTSIDE the US? Like Canada?
Wingless

If I MUST sign up for a membership I will, and then I'll most likely just buy 5 copies of Gargoyles S2V2 and throw them on eBay or offer to sell them here. We'll see what happens comes June 25th, 2013.
Anthony Tini

A few words on the obligations of the Disney Movie Club. While I'm certainly not saying this is ideal (that would be a general release, and there are individual cases where the movie club may not have much to offer), the potential advantage of the movie club lies in the deal you get when you join and average cost. Typically their promotion is 4 DVDs for $1 when you join. In the worst case scenario, here is the math: $19.95 x 5 movies ($99.75) + $3.95 shipping x 5 if separately purchased ($19.75) + 4 $1 DVDs. Divide the total of $123.50 by 9 movies and that rounds to $13.70 per disc (or season set).

If you play it smart, you can do better and save about $3 per DVD. When you join they let you buy two bonus DVDs for $14.95 and $9.95 that count toward that five-DVD requirement, and there's no shipping charge. Shipping charges go down if you buy multiple discs at once also. In the optimal case, the math goes like so: first 4 $1 DVDs + 1 $14.95 DVD + 1 $9.95 DVD = $28.90 when joining. Add that to $19.95 x 3 DVDs ($59.85) + $3.95 shipping for 1 disc and $2.98 shipping for the other two. $95.68 / 9 = $10.63. You'll have saved $27.82 on the DVD membership.

The optimal method is *definitely* what you want to do if you want to have some Blu-ray discs / Blu-ray DVD combo packs. With Blu-Ray membership everything costs $29.95 (including DVDs...yeah), an extra $10 compared to the DVD plan. If you take the best deal when you join you'll need to buy three movies that way, so instead of $95.68 it should be $125.68 - marginally more than if you were being inefficient with the DVD plan (the average rounds out to $13.96).

The optimal method doesn't get you what I'd call an amazing deal in our world where you can get a DVD for $5 or a Blu-ray for $8 out of a bargain bin, but it could be a "good" deal if you play your cards right and there are gaps in your library that you want to fill. Only you can decide if doing that and having Gargoyles justifies the expense. If you're an avid Disney collector, maybe not.

But that being said, lately Disney has been VERY aggressive about bringing its catalog to Blu-ray. Many more BD releases are coming this year, and we're at the point where by Fall 2014 it's not impossible that every theatrical film Disney has made since The Great Mouse Detective will be on Blu-ray (at the least I'd bet the farm Aladdin is 2014's Diamond Edition, and it and Tarzan have already seen BD releases in the UK). I would hope most would have good candidates to choose from. Frankly, even if you were to be smacked with a worst-case $39.99 price point on your three extra BD releases with the optimal method, there isn't a circumstance where you're going to break an average charge of 18 bucks - let alone $20. Considering the prices that the likes of the Blu-Ray releases for the likes of Brave and the Peter Pan Diamond Edition typically pre-order for (I don't think I've seen a better deal than $23, and that's at best), in the big picture the movie club actually can amount to a good deal.

Personally, that kind of money for Disney Blu-rays + approx 600 minutes of Gargoyles is something I can live with.

Todd "GWOtaku" DuBois

True, but this is better than nothing at all. At least their selection is decent enough.
Grunge - [anonymousmon at gmail dot com]
Grunge

Grunge> It's still requiring you to purchase a bunch of stuff that you may not actually want to get to the one thing you do. Some people don't appreciate being held hostage like that.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Yes, but at least you don't have to buy them all right away. More like in the next 2 years.
Grunge - [anonymousmon at gmail dot com]
Grunge

So if Gargoyles S2V2 is going to be an exclusive to the Disney Movie Club, then I assume that we're all going to have to sign up for a membership? Seriously?

Membership details:

As a Disney Movie Club member, all you need to do is buy 5 movies at regular Club prices in the next 24 months (starting at $19.95 per DVD and $29.95 per Blu-ray for a member who joins under a DVD enrollment offer or starting at $29.95 per DVD and $29.95 per Blu-ray for a member who joins under a Blu-ray enrollment offer), plus shipping and processing of $3.95 for the first title in each order, and $1.49 for each additional title in that same order. You may cancel your membership at any time after purchasing the 5 movies.


So to get Gargoyles S2V2 for $20, I have to buy that title and spend $80+ more? That's bullshit.

Anthony Tini

Hey, outsider but long-time Ask Greg reader dropping in. I called the Disney Movie Club people and the nice lady on the line confirmed this tidbit about season 2 part 2 of Gargoyles for me, telling me it'd be $19.99 (standard for a Disney DVD release through the movie club). So, pretty safe to say that they are in fact planning to do this.
Todd "GWOtaku" DuBois

Grunge>

Thank you for this post.

If this is true...

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
If you are on the wrong road, progress means.. walking back to the right road; ..the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man~~C.S. Lewis

Hello, I'm just a lurker.

I'm currently here to inform you of this: there's hope for the season 2 volume 2 DVD.

http://www.toonzone.net/forums/blu-ray-dvd-discussion/288327-new-gargoyles-dvds-coming-5-29-13-update-season-two-part-two-coming-june-2013-movie-club-exclusive-7.html#post4121777

Grunge - [anonymousmon at gmail dot com]
Grunge

I doubt it. The rookery was in a cave with a heavy door afterall, and neither Demona nor Goliath were especially near the Rookery either.

It does make me wonder what exactly made the Trio and Bronx emerge on their own while Goliath and Hudson were looking around. They were supposed to stay down there as punishment afterall

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

After they discovered that the Wyvern Clan had been massacred, both Demona and Goliath roared in rage and grief, as seen at the end of "Awakening, Part One" and in the middle of "City of Stone, Part One".

Was the rookery within earshot of their roars? Did the trio hear them?

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Comet, SomeGeek> Greg has on several occasions indicated that garg beasts and gargoyles diverged after wings had already developed, and that garg beasts lost their wings after this but they remain as vestigial appendages. So, on that basis, it is possible that some of the visible protrusions might be caused by the vestigial wings.

However, I am inclined to think that most protrusions are not that. In part, this is because a lot of beasts have prostrusions that would not correspond to the positions of vestigial wings (e.g. Bronx has a single row of short spikes down the middle of this back).

And, yes, as SomeGeek pointed out, gargoyles have similar spikes that clearly aren't vestigial wings (since they have actual wings as well).

Supermorff

Comet -- My instinct is that, no, the protrusions are not remnants of wings. My reasons for this are: (a) generally speaking, i think wings tend to be an evolutionary step up, rather than something that would go away in evolutionary advancement and (b) some gargoyles also have the protrusions and they are basically boney mass rather than a place that wings would be. So for those reasons I would say no. That all said, I suppose it would be -possible- just not what my instinct tells me is the case.
SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

Is it possible that the spikes on the backs of many (not all, but many) Gargbeasts are wing remains?
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Thanks, Phoenician. I'd looked those up in the "Red Tornado" section of the archive already (thank goodness it has its own section there and isn't just part of the "Young Justice" section).
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Todd -- The below don't sound like the answers to the question you seem to mulling about, but there have been a couple questions that are related to Greg's use of the Red characters:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13817
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13819
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=14076

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Tenth.

I recently remembered that Greg Weisman had at one point, a few years ago, been given the job of writing a "Red Tornado" comic book series for DC Comics, but that it wound up being cancelled before even the first issue could come out. I've noticed that one of the arcs of the first season of "Young Justice" centered around Red Tornado [SPOILER] focusing on his creator trying to get him to carry out his original function of wiping out the human race, and Red Tornado defying his wishes to become a genuine hero [/SPOILER] and wondered whether that was based on Greg's plans for that story. If "Ask Greg" was still open, and I was certain that that question hadn't been asked before, I'd probably submit it.

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

nine in hope for a Garg-themed discussion
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Lotus.

Sorry; eight.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Seventh
Supermorff

Six Hundred Sixty Six!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"But there was something about you (I want you to know)...it brought a change over me (It's startin' to show)..." - Boston

Fifth!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Fourth
SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

Third!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

Second!
Ross

First!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]