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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

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Comments for the week ending June 23, 2013

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@Cakith In the US, "Disney's Gargoyles" is on Netflix via DVD, therefore users with the DVD subscription service can have those mailed to their home. All the other titles with the word "Gargoyle" in it are not Disney related and not worth mentioning.
Anthony Tini

Can you who live in US check if Gargoyles is on Netflix? Beacause it looks like that it IS there.
There are entries named "Gargoyles" and "Gargoyles the movie: Heroes awaken" in search.

Cakith

ForteWily > You can submit that question to AskGreg if you want, but just FYI Greg RARELY gives out information of a spoiler-ish nature even in canceled properties. There's no way of knowing if the property might get revived or rebooted at some point, or Greg might want to use an un-used story idea in a future property.
Rebel

Wingless> I'm interested!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

Since the show is cancelled, this is a complete hypothetical involving Young Justice. Now, you have established in YJ that the character Jason Todd did exist... Namely as a robin. If anything that would be interesting on it's own, but... if YJ was allowed to continue, was there a chance of you using Jason again [SPOILER] as the Second Red Hood? [/SPOILER]

Other than that, since you seem to have a knowledge working with the DCU, what do you think of Jason as a character?

ForteWily - [issac dot sarrowtail at gmail dot com]

Tonight, I had the privilege of watching Joss Whedon's adaptation of William Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing". I loved every second of it, and I recommend it to all "Gargoyles" fans. Benedick and Beatrice are the Shakespearean precursors to Brooklyn and Katana; Dingo and Hunter, etc... and it's a terrific flick in it's own right. A quirky little film, shot in Joss Whedon's house.

Movie of the summer, folks. Movie of the summer.

Greg Bishansky

I was just digging through my old video tapes and found one of the 2 airings of "Gargoyles-the Movie" from UPN. This was a different edit from what was released on video/laserdisc. One thing that has been gnawing at me was the opening sequence with the Vikings first attacking the castle. I remembered that many of the scenes were reversed. IE Hakon & Vikings are climbing up the side of the castle-which is stage left of the screen instead of stage right in regular airings. The UPN bug is on the bottom of the screen facing the right direction so it's not trickery on my part. Now that I have a working video capture card, I'll try and get this segment up on youtube for those who are interested.
Wingless

Harlan Phoenix> Not that it matters, really, but you've got me curious now: what anime was it?

"And not to insult you, but Gargoyles has always deserved better than novelty."

No insult taken, and you have a point there. Gargoyles is a great property and it does deserve better than novelty. Still maintaining hope that we'll get a new form of that property someday, whether another animated series, movie, etc.

KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]

Todd: A motion comic is essentially a video that walks a reader through a digital comic panel-by-panel, with voiceover reading each caption/piece of dialogue.

Yeah, it's pretty gimmicky. But I'd still pay for anything that unites some of the "Gargoyles" voice actors together again, myself.

Crispin Freeman should be narrator.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Gonna hitch a ride, head for the other side..." - Boston

Is a motion comic anything like a digital comic?
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

It's all about quality!
Of course you can still prefer a franchise being produced as an animated series instead of a comic book or a motion comic (or whatever it's called) or anything else. But that doesn't change the fact that you still want to get a quality product. Everyone here will agree that the SLG comics are far more polished than TGC (friendly phrased), although you (and me included) would prefer the SLG comics to be an animated series. I had my doubt's over the SLG comics, too. I thought they couldn't live up to the series. But after I bought and read the TPBs I was sad that it was over so quick, because it was that good.

As long as Greg is involved I do think we'll get high quality stuff. As much as you can achieve with their budget. I'd still buy a Gargoyles: Dark Ages novel in a hearbeat... But in the end I don't even think a Gargoyles motion comic will ever see the light of the day... Not sure about other options though...

Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail dot com]

KingCobra> There was an anime series I loved that tried to continue its animated fiction (as it had a comic book source material) through motion comic. It was the saddest, most pathetic thing I had ever seen come out of an entertainment product. Not even by virtue of its quality or lack thereof, because I never bothered, but just because it exists at all.

That sort of thing sounds like a last resort "We don't actually have a new product, we just want your money" kind of thing and it doesn't even seem like it has any real value. You could hear the voices again, sure, but that's really only just novelty no matter how good it is. I thought the same thing about above franchise, I thought the same thing when I heard about the Buffy Season 8 motion comics, and if they actually made some motion/audio comic of the SLG books, I'd contemplate completely quitting Gargoyles.

And I say that as someone who adores the SLG comics and whose favorite Garg story EVER is the Stone of Destiny three-parter. It just seems like pure novelty. And not to insult you, but Gargoyles has always deserved better than novelty.

Harlan Phoenix

I've been keeping an eye out for any news about Young Justice Legacy coming out of the Electronic Entertainment Expo. RPGFan has updated their preview index for the game with Abraham Ashton Liu's thoughts on the build presented at E3. Enjoy!

http://www.rpgfan.com/previews/Young_Justice_Legacy/index.html

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Harlan Phoenix> I wouldn't say that is true. There are probably SOME good motion comics out there.
KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but:

"Where" and "were" are not synonymous, or alternative spellings of the same word.

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

"I don't think any of us do, unless it's a DVD compilation of the Slave Labor comics.

Which would actually be incredibly nifty. :D"

Motion comics are all terrible.

Harlan Phoenix

I have always maintained that TGC has decent story ideas, but they where just poorly executed. Very poorly executed.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

Re: The Dying of the Light > "the flashback to 984 with Goliath crying out "Hudson, your eye!" 1,010 years before Hudson received his name."

That wasn't a flashback. That was a dream. Hudson says so himself that he's having the same dream again and again. Dreams aren't always "historically accurate."

Rebel

I think he had in mind the scenes with Hudson and Jeffrey Robbins, which were indeed well-done (and Greg even delivered them a hommage in the Double Date story).

That episode did have one good Quarryman moment (or at least, a good concept), when a hospital orderly flips around his nametag to reveal a Quarryman symbol. I think that the Quarrymen would have been more effective if the production team had used that concept more often - that they're mostly ordinary citizens, not professional mercenaries (maybe they confused Banquo and Fleance in "The Journey" with the norm) - and that, potentially, anybody could be a Quarryman - your next-door neighbor, the person sitting opposite you on the bus, the person in the cubicle next to yours at work, etc. One good reason for them to wear those hoods (and Castaway even points out to Vinnie in "The Journey" that they should remain anonymous). (On the other hand, I doubt that the Quarrymen as Greg Weisman imagined them would go around attacking pro-gargoyle humans. For one thing, it would be bad publicity for the organization; fighting gargoyles isn't a criminal offence, but assault and battery on humans is. And such actions would scare off the people who only joined the Quarrymen to protect their homes and families, and are not interested in being Castaway's flunkeys in his war of revenge.)

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

A few of us did defend some of TGC's merits here, actually: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/comment/archive/index.php?archive_date=2011-08-14

I, for one, do want TGC enough that I've already made my own DVD of it that I watch anytime I run through the series, just before reading the SLG comics. But I would spend money on one from Disney, just to have the uncut episodes. I don't think TGC is -as bad- as people say. Just isn't as good as the real thing.

Like others have pointed out, it has its moments. And with all due respect to Greg, I do think the scene between Hudson and Robbins is better in TGC than in the comic. It just doesn't have the same meaning when Robbins isn't helping Hudson through a hard time - one he can't even turn to his clan for help with.

Arlo

MATTHEW> "Well, there's "The Dying of the Light" which is a great episode."

Gotta disagree. The Quarrymen were cardboard cutouts in the episode; P.I.T. was such a lame, and and sacharine organization and that scene with Angela and the P.I.T. leader was vomit inducing (never mind the fact, that P.I.T. infected Gargoyles fanfiction like a disease after that... to the point where some thought it was a Weisman creation), and the flashback to 984 with Goliath crying out "Hudson, your eye!" 1,010 years before Hudson received his name.

And don't get me started on "Seeing Is Believing".

Heh, sorry for the rant, carry on.

Greg Bishansky

Greg thinks that Ellen Yin's similarities to Elisa were coincidental (largely because none of the animators ever suggested to him that they deliberately modelled her on Elisa). He doesn't seem to have been disturbed by that.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

I just wanted to ask Greg three questions, but since I couldn't reach him, maybe you guys can answer them for me.

1) Did it ever bother Greg that Detective Ellen Yin from The Batman looked a lot like Detective Elisa Maze, and if so how would he change her?

2) Did Greg enjoy his run on Spectacular Spider-Man?

3) What was the hardest show Greg worked on?

Vincent Stauffer - [Vincent2514 at AOL dot com]
Vincent Aaron Stauffer

Well, I remember one guy who defended "The Goliath Chronicles" on the grounds that it had a far more mundane setting, with the villains being ordinary guys who didn't like gargoyles out of racial hatred rather than fantasy or sci-fi antagonists.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Well, there's "The Dying of the Light" which is a great episode. Also, I personally have a fondness for "Seeing Isn't Believing". First, GORGEOUS animation that stands out among the mostly subpar other episodes. Second, one of the more innovative solutions to the "Which is the real one?" All in all, a fun episode. Aside from those two, however, I often felt like "... I woke up at 7am for THIS?!?"
Matthew - [reginald_q_bumbershoot at hotmail dot com]

TODD> I don't think they ever even defended TGC for any of its merits, just for being completists.
Greg Bishansky

A few people have defended "The Goliath Chronicles" for various reasons, but they're definitely in the minority.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Comet> I don't think any of us do, unless it's a DVD compilation of the Slave Labor comics.

Which would actually be incredibly nifty. :D

But TGC on DVD? Urgh.

KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]

"It also mentioned season 3, so it is possible that it will come out at later date."

Who cares?

Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

I watched the second DVD of "Young Justice: Invasion" today. A few thoughts:

[SPOILER] BLOODLINES: Bart/Impulse's tendency to refer to future information as "spoilers" reminded me of River Song in "Doctor Who", though Greg Weisman indicated at "Ask Greg" that there were other inspirations for that. I wonder if we'll be seeing similar remarks from post-TimeDancer Brooklyn if Greg Weisman gets to tell more "Gargoyles" stories set after the events in "Clan-Building".

That "Gateway Arch"-counterpart in Central City that I mentioned in my review of "Failsafe" shows up again (being a St. Louisan, I'd notice it) - I noticed this time that the base has a different design from the Arch, though. And it gets destroyed for real this time, in the fight with Neutron. Too bad.

A couple of favorite bits: Bart/Impulse asks about Flash's tendency to say "Back in a flash", if he says that often. Everyone else, in unison: "Too often." And Roy's "Should I be concerned that our daughter seems to like the ultra-violence?"

For a change, Greg Weisman does a story in which a time traveler *can* change the past (though Mt. Justice stays destroyed - and three episodes later, we find out why).

DEPTHS: I'd read about the big revelations in this one already - that Aqualad had only pretended to defect, and that Artemis wasn't really dead - but still liked how they handled it.

Another change of pace in letting the villains provide a moral lesson - the scene where Black Manta congratulates his son in not taking the credit for the success of the mission, since it wasn't Aqualad and his team that destroyed the satellite. (I remember Greg doing something a bit similar in "The Spectacular Spider-Man" in the Shocker's line about a man honoring his obligations.)

We find out why Superboy and Miss Martian broke up - the bit about her trying to tamper with his mind reminded me a bit of Willow tampering with Tara's memories in "Buffy". We know that Greg Weisman's a "Buffy" fan, but I don't know if that was an influence.

SATISFACTION: I noticed that Greg Weisman wrote this one, and a story about revenge and how pointless and impractical it ultimately is is certainly one of his favorite themes.

The name of the hospital where the original Roy was being tended, Royal Memorial Hospital, puzzled me. Maybe it's "Royal" after somebody's surname, say, rather than "Royal" in the sense of being connected to a king or queen, but it still seems strange for a hospital in the U.S. (unless Star City's in Canada) to bear such a name.

Lex Luthor displays considerable sang-froid again, especially in how he talks Roy into passing up revenge for a new bionic arm. And does a modified version of Xanatos's line about revenge being a sucker's game from "Leader of the Pack".

Two of the funniest moments: Roy caps the list of all the strange things that happened while he was being kept in storage by the Light, such as the formation of the team and the alien invasions, with Green Arrow growing a beard. And Captain Cold discovering the hard way that robbing a bank next door to a group of super-heroines having a bridal shower is a bad idea. "I'm completely doomed, aren't I?"

Artemis's middle name is also the name of Roy and Cheshire's daughter. Certainly makes sense.

DARKEST: Impulse showing off again by making a picture of himself visible from only the air (a la the Nazca lines) was a lot of fun, as was his indignant cry about putting 1.6 seconds into making it, after the bad guys destroy it.

So now Mount Justice gets destroyed for real. I liked Wally's protest at the end - and thought it showed maturity that what he was most upset about wasn't the destruction of all those souvenirs (which he recognized as just objects), but "What if Nightwing hadn't gotten everyone out of the place before it blew up?"

Jaime/Blue Beetle was already one of my favorite characters in the second season even before this episode, because of those constant arguments with the Scarab, but they added to that in his troubled realization that he doesn't have a mentor figure; his predecessor was killed before Jaime succeeded him (apparently just a few seconds before Jaime got the Scarab).

BEFORE THE DAWN: Some big developments here, including Miss Martian discovering the truth about Aqualad's actions (I liked the flashbacks to Season One mixed into that scene), and look forward to seeing, in the next batch of episodes when they come out on DVD, how that'll affect her. Not to mention I wonder what condition she left Aqualad in, in light of those remarks about how she tends to mind-wipe people far too severely. I hope she didn't lobotomize him as well.

The Reach are certainly developing into a menacing opponent - all the more so since they were clever enough to show up at the United Nations Building pretending to come in peace (even G. Gordon Godfrey approves of them, and that's saying a lot), which will make it a lot more difficult for the protagonists to do anything about them. I'm looking forward to how that plays out, as well.

A fine batch of episodes. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

So, last years "Tentative plans to release rest of Gragoyles on DVD" was true after all. It just got delayed a little.
It also mentioned season 3, so it is possible that it will come out at later date.
This will probaby sell some amount older releases also, because there are those who have been reluctant to buy them due to series being left incomplete... which of course is not the case anymore.

Cakith

Blathering Blatherskite!
Anthony Tini

Gizmo Duck only made rare appearances, but Launchpad was on like every episode. I actually can understand why it wasn't made. Cross-overs like that are fun every now and then, but as a series, it's usually hard to make them work. I did always think Gizmo needed his own series, though.
Arlo

Assuming he was muttering favorably about "The Black Cauldron", that is (the description doesn't say what kind of muttering he does).
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

After visiting the site Brainiac linked to, and reading the bio of Assistant Administrator Matt (probably not the same as the Matt who posts here), he sounds like an appealing fellow - at least, in light of the part about "most likely discovered a new patch of Arthurian works, or muttering about 'The Black Cauldron'."
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

The occasional guest appearance only - and only once as Fenton Crackshell. The only "proper" full-on DuckTales/Darkwing Duck crossover I know of is Boom Studios finale for the two comics series.

I'll admit I've been paying attention to stuff like this ever since the announcement of DuckTales Remastered at PAX East a few months ago. One reason I hope it does really well is to get Darkwing Duck Remastered next and, in my most mad of dreams, bring about a return of both properties in some form...perhaps this very one.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Wasn't Gizmoduck (not to mention Launchpad) already in Darkwing Duck?
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

http://openvaultdisney.com/2013/06/17/new-d23-website-reveals-unproduced-ducktalesdarkwing-duck-crossover-series/

...WHY WAS THIS NOT MADE?!

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Adam, the redesign of the goblins is due to the use of CGI and motion Capture on the actors rather than the traditional makeup that was used in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. As of yet I haven't found out who was responsible for the overall design of these new goblins but personally they remind a lot of some of the creatures in Guillermo del Toro's previous works. The pale almost translucent skin on the goblins reminds me of the denizens of the Troll Market in HellBoy. Even Azog's scars almost take a symmetrical pattern that can be the heavenly lined creatures of his previous films like the faun in Pan's Labyrinth. I have no idea if he had a hand in their design but it just reminded me of it.
Matthew
"Shall we their fond pageant see? Lord, what fools these mortals be!"-Puck

In the book, Thorin's original plan (so much as he had a plan; as Bilbo points out later, the dwarves never really came up with any ideas for handling Smaug) was apparently to steal the treasure (or have Bilbo steal it) and then leave in a hurry. (Bilbo brings up later, not only the obvious problem of Smaug as a guardian, but that expecting a single hobbit to carry off the entire dwarf-hoard in the Lonely Mountain was beyond belief.) The dwarves only begin seriously thinking of winning the Lonely Mountain itself back from Smaug after their reception at Lake-town.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

I read Greg B's review of the Hobbit. He seemed to really like it.

One of the best parts for me was seeing Erebor. I thought the begining part of the movie where they where at Bag End was good. And of course the Gollum/Bilbo scene was great. I didn't really care for the excape from Goblin Town. It seemed really chaotic (which is probably the point) and I didn't care for the design of the Goblins. I also didn't think when Radagast was being chased by wargs looked good. And I think having Azog as a primary villian was all right, but I think they should have used Bolg instead.

I also liked how all the Dwarves where different, but similar when it came to siblings. When they first released photos of the Dwarves, people complained that the Dwarves where too "heavily armed". They said they should only have long knives like it says in the book. But it only says that they have long knives when they are in Mirkwood. And if you intend to reclaim Erebor and slay a dragon, you will need more than knives and musical instrements.

Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

TODD> Weirdly enough, I just started reading The Hobbit today. I have Unexpected Journey on DVD but have been putting off watching it until reading the book. Guess the Desolation of Smaug finally spurned me.
Algernon

Tolkien himself considered at one point rewriting "The Hobbit" to make it fit the epic atmosphere of "The Lord of the Rings" better, but didn't get past the first couple of chapters. (Apparently he showed the rewritten chapters to a friend, who said something like "These are nice, but they aren't 'The Hobbit'.")
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

I thought the first Hobbit movie was ok, but had a bit of an identity crisis. The Lord of the Rings trilogy were epic movies adapting epic books, but the Hobbit book was much more of a children's tale. The movie didn't seem to know whether it was trying to adapt a children's book or replicating the high epic of the earlier movies, and it kinda fell into a middle ground, not really succeeding at either.

That said, from the trailer I'd say if you liked the first movie chances are you'll like the second. They look much of a muchness to me.

Supermorff

So, did everyone see the Desolation of Smaug trailer? If you did, what did you think of it? Or the first Hobbit movie?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

0010 and away we go on with the show!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Obama eat's Dog!

gah, sorry for the double post.
i meant
"009"

SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

9th in the name of....something :)
SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

008 days to S2V2!

And since Adam made the obvious reference - 008 is Timothy, Bill Timothy.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

007- Bond, James Bond.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]

006
Supermorff

005!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

004
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
If you are on the wrong road, progress means.. walking back to the right road; ..the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man~~C.S. Lewis

003!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Gonna hitch a ride, head for the other side..." - Boston

002!
Anthony Tini

001!
KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]