A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending June 15, 2014

Index : Show Images

Brainiac> I'll admit that was the first hopeful (or is that desperate?) thought that sprung to mind. But I'm not sure I'm optimistic enough to believe it. I guess we'll see if anything happens? I suppose this fandom is good at being patient ;)
Kaylle - [kayl dot aluenne at gmail dot com]

What happened to the Gargoyles episodes streaming? Is Gargoyles Season 2 volume 2 going to get released on DVD to retail? what will gargoyles 20th anniversary have and be about?
JONNY MODLIN - [jmodlin210 at gmail dot com]
Jonny Modlin

wow guys, just look at this:
https://twitter.com/sallirichardson/status/477937530650644480

I would've never expected such a large attendance... Is everyone there just for Gargoyles? :O

>...I think somebody in charge is up to something.<
That'd be too good to be true...

Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail dot com]
watch my Demona AMV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNGrg5Wm12E

Kaylle> I'll assume the best possible reason - given the unexpected popularity of the streams, the sales of the S2V2 DVD, advance ticket sales to the D23 Fanniversary appearances involving Gargoyles, and of course, CONvergence and other fan gatherings in honor of the anniversary...

...I think somebody in charge is up to something.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

I'm really disappointed they've gone private. It was the easiest way to get new folks to watch the show, since it's not available on Netflix/Amazon/etc. It's hard to convince people to invest in DVDs of a show they've never seen, but convincing them to watch an episode or two via streaming was much easier.

I wonder what the point was of adding these and then taking them down?

Kaylle - [kayl dot aluenne at gmail dot com]

They have indeed gone private. They're no longer accessible on Disney Video, either. Check the top post of the S8 Gargoyles Blog - you get "Sorry, this video is no longer available."

Curiouser and curiouser.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

Well someone posted on the Gargoyles facebook page that all official Gargoyles episodes on youtube disappeared. The channel is called DisneyShows, it's one of Disney's own youtube channels and last year they uploaded every episode to watch for free, all legal of course.

I tried some links from GargWiki and the episodes are now set to private and are unavailable. Can someone else confirm this?

Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail dot com]
watch my Demona AMV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNGrg5Wm12E

I can't help thinking that the scenario Jurgan dreamed up would have even more complications (enough to make one truly grateful that, as Matt pointed out, it would be impossible in the Gargoyles Universe anyway, thanks to the "history is immutable" rule). Such as:

1. With a few gargoyles still unpetrified and remaining at Castle Wyvern, Princess Katharine most likely would not be entrusted with the eggs, meaning that she doesn't have them with her when she goes to Kenneth II's court, and which in turn would probably change events there (Katharine was unable to flee with her cousin Maol Chalvim during Constantine's coup since she needed time to move the eggs, and Constantine used the eggs as a threat to force Katharine to agree to marry him) - change events enough, presumably, that Katharine and the Magus never flee to Avalon and expel the Weird Sisters. So the Sisters would have no reason to ally with the Archmage, no banishment and defeat to avenge.

2. Demona remaining at Castle Wyvern (if presumably still troubled over having helped bring about the Wyvern Massacre) means that she doesn't attack Gillecomgain and scar his face, meaning that he doesn't become the Hunter - and therefore might not be Duncan's assassin hired to kill Findlaech and Macbeth. (Of course, he might still have the "family rivalry" motive going back to his father being the illegitimate half-brother of Findlaech, resentful over his legitimate brother getting the estates and title of High Steward of Moray.) Macbeth's death in 1020 in this scenario would mean further changes, of course, such as no overthrow of Duncan twenty years later. One of Shakespeare's major tragedies never gets written. And Scotland's cultural history might take a different turn; in actual history, Canmore encouraged an English cultural influence, thanks to his youth in exile in England. In this scenario, with Duncan not overthrown and slain in 1040 and the boy Canmore banished to England, he'd have less exposure to English customs and thought, and Scotland might take a more "half-Gaelic/half-Norse" turn. (Though since Duncan had married into an English noble family, perhaps English ways would have still influenced Canmore, if not as strongly.)

3. No Goliath and Demona surviving into the modern world would doubtless change Xanatos' life, without them to supply him with the Phoenix Gate to go back to 975 and set up the foundations of his wealth. A man with his ambition and resourcefulness would probably have become wealthy anyway, but not to the extent we saw in the series. (Not to mention, Xanatos and Fox's absence in 975 would change things further; the Archmage would have most likely gotten the Phoenix Gate through the bandit attack, and the bandits might even have killed Princess Elena.) That would probably in turn alter things enough that the Pack's encounter with Anubis and the creation of the Matrix might not have come about - or at least, not the way we know them. (The Pack itself would no doubt have had some differences in its evolution, with no gargoyles to fight with and encourage its members to upgrade themselves - though I can still imagine Jackal being fascinated enough by Anubis to try merging with him.) And so on....

(The "Turn Left" scenario that Jurgan cited as his influence had a couple of questions in it, if minor ones. While it addressed the Doctor's present-day adventures that wouldn't happen because of the change in the timeline, it didn't bring up adventures in the past that would also be affected - world-threatening adventures in Shakespearean London and ancient Pompeii; though I've read that there was originally going to be a mention of UNIT sending some agents back in time to handle those problems, presumably dropped for time. Also, the Trickster's Brigade that meddled with Donna would have wound up wiped out as a result of the Daleks' Reality Bomb going off in this change and destroying the multiverse - and even if they were somehow immune to its effects, they'd only have Daleks to meddle with after that. Either they wanted to go out with the biggest bang of all, or else they didn't realize the full consequences of their interference.)

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders.

Yeah, I admit I fudged it a bit to make it work. I kind of imagined the Phoenix constantly patrolling the timestream sending people (especially Brooklyn) where they need to be. It knows Brooklyn needs to stop the Archmage, and the whole scenario is its imagination of what would happen if it didn't.

Mainly, I just like seeing how very small changes can make a big difference. There was a Doctor Who episode called "Turn Left" where Donna makes a right turn instead of a left turn one day. She never meets the Doctor, isn't there to save his life, and the entire universe is destroyed. Naturally this is all fixed by the end of the episode.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Jurgen> Very cool thoughts. Of course, a lot of it couldn't work due to the nature of the timestream in the Gargoyles Universe. Hakon burning the other page presents a neat hypothetical, as you point out, but he didn't. And if the Archmage had tried to go back to ensure he did, THAT would be the way time always was. The Archmage couldn't change the timeline, and thus the Phoenix/Brooklyn would never be able to "change it back". Theres only one timeline. You can't correct the timeline ala Back to the Future, because it is impossible to change it in the first place. So, as for Hakon burning the other page, Xanatos said it best, he "won't, because he didn't".

All that said, the idea of a massive war between Jackal/Anubis and Matrix would've been epic. Can't get much more chaos vs. order than that!

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

Jurgan > Impressive.
Rebel - [rebelfornea at gmail dot com]

Battle Beast> Gratitude.
Algernon
"This world isn't worth saving, tragedies and sadness will never truly disappear. But even so, it's the place she once tried to protect. I remember that. And I will never ever forget it. That's why... I keep fighting." ~Homura Akemi

It occurred to me recently that the entire Gargoyles series hinges on one incredibly minor event. In Awakening, the Magus bookmarks a spot in the Grimorum: The left page contains a spell that turns people to stone, and the right page contains the counter-spell. Hakon has them tied up, opens the book, and rips out and burns the page on the right. Imagine if he had burned the left page instead.

Gargoyles: Burn Left*

The Archmage travels back in time at some point and briefly controls Hakon, making him burn the left page. Thus, the gargoyles are never put into stone sleep. The humans still abandon the castle, but the seven remaining Wyvern gargoyles stay there or move underground for protection. They live out the rest of their lives fairly uneventfully, although how Demona deals with her guilt is anyone's guess. The Archmage is now unopposed in his takeover of Avalon. He still recruits the Weird Sisters, but now he has no way to get to Demona, and Macbeth is successfully assassinated by Gillecomgain.

A thousand years pass, and Xanatos is still up to his old tricks, sending The Pack to find the Jackal god in Egypt. This time, though, the human Jackal posesses the god and has no one to stop him, so he starts killing everything on Earth. Matrix hears about this in Australia and considers Jackal to be purely chaotic, so he breaks out, enveloping the Pacific region to impose his own order. So a war breaks out between Jackal's death beams and the Matrix nanomachines, which are not exactly alive but still have lifelike energy and are only partly affected. Seeing the destruction, Oberon's children flee to Avalon and discover the Archmage. A massive battle breaks out between the Archmage and Oberon and his children. Oberon and his children are numerous, but the Archmage is powerful and has recruited many mortal warriors. There are many casualties on both sides, but at a key moment the Weird Sisters, led by Phoebe, leave the Archmage and broker a compromise between the two sides, urging them to forgive those who have hurt them and join against the common threats outside.

So Oberon and the Archmage lead a joint assault on the opposing forces which are clashing on the Indian subcontinent (the western hemisphere has been largely ignored, although Matrix quickly disabled most of the U.S.'s nuclear weaponry). Jackal is powerful, but he is only one person with the power of a child of Oberon. At the height of the battle, Oberon captures him and separates the human from the Jackal god, but it unleashes a wave of death energy that kills Oberon and one-third of the remaining population of the Earth. But now Matrix is free to take over and spreads across the planet, absorbing everyone. The remaining governments launch a massive EMP blast, greatly weakening Matrix and also destroying most of the infrastructure, causing mass starvation across the world. The children of Oberon are unaffected, but Avalon has been destroyed and they are scattered to the wind, some going into hiding while others try to reclaim their status as gods in a new Dark Age. All this becomes moot, though, because Nokkar saw the destruction and sent out a desperate cry for help. Unfortunately, the Space-Spawn arrive first. They had long-term plans to occupy the planet, but seeing how chaotic and dangerous it has become, they pacify it with nuclear weapons and put an end to Earth once and for all.

The phoenix cannot abide meddling with the time stream. It does not know how the Archmage was able to alter events, but it will be corrected. Timedancing Brooklyn lands back in 994 and races after the Vikings. He sees the tent where Katherine is being held and the Archmage hiding outside. Brooklyn sees him preparing to cast a spell, but knows he cannot possibly defeat the upgraded Archmage. He lands outside the tent and, from the outside, shoves Katherine towards Hakon while she threatens him, placing her in just the right position to block the Archmage's spell. The Archmage leaves just as Hakon burns the right page of the Grimorum, and it ensures he is never able to step out of his predetermined timestream again.

*The title is a Doctor Who reference, for those who aren't fans.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

I don't know what this world is coming to. Two 12 year old girls attempting to murder their "friend"? It sickens me, just as does every school shooting. But this isn't the place for THAT debate.

I donated $25 to the girls' cause. Hope she gets well soon.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 494 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

Algernon> Hmmmm. I hope the YouCaring fundraiser (http://www.youcaring.com/medical-fundraiser/waukesha-creepypasta-bring-her-back/186588) pools in with GoFundMe one you listed, Al (especially since the former is far smaller than the latter but appears to have more "official" backing and has been running longer).

Also, better Bloch than Derleth. Heh.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

BRAINY> If we're equating Sagan and Lovecraft, does that make Neil deGrasse Tyson the equivalent of Robert Bloch? ;)

Veering way off-topic here but I hope you'll all indulge me. It's been five years to the day since Eric Knudsen AKA "Victor Surge" first unleashed the faceless fiend known as Slender Man upon an unsuspecting internet. As a Slender Fan, I wanted to mark the occasion in someway. But given recent events, I wondered how to do it in a manner that did not whiff of bad taste...

So I decided to mark the day by making a small donation towards "Hearts for Healing", the charity that's helping to cover the medical expenses for the 12 year old girl injured in the recent tragedy in Waukesha, Wisconsin.

I'd strongly encourage anyone reading this to do the same. Especially if you're a fan of Slender, creepypastas or the Horror genre in general and want to send a clear, unambiguous message that this crime does NOT represent you or your fandom.

http://www.gofundme.com/HeartsForHealingWI

Thank you.

Algernon
"This world isn't worth saving, tragedies and sadness will never truly disappear. But even so, it's the place she once tried to protect. I remember that. And I will never ever forget it. That's why... I keep fighting." ~Homura Akemi

Algernon, I'll take Sagan over Lovecraft any day of the week.

Heck, I'll take Neil deGrasse Tyson over H.P. Lovecraft as well. S'why I put in an order for the $30 Blu-ray of A Spacetime Odyssey (A Personal Voyage, the first Cosmos, remains DVD only and costs almost $70 new on Amazon).

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

Tenth in the name of Ygritte.

"Shot through the heart
And you're to blame
Darling, you give love a bad name..."

Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

9th... really?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 494 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

8th. Al & Brainy--My quote, picked in honor of the quote on C.S. Lewis's stone at the Poet's Corner of Westminster abbey, will remain unchanged, because I think it is apt. For me, anyway. :D
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~~C.S. Lewis

7TH!!!

And Brainy...

You knew this was coming. ;)

Algernon
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."

6th.

And today marks Donald Duck's 80th birthday.

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders

5th
Anthony Tini
"Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally."

4th.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"

3 Three(3rd)!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Mark Twain: "Don't argue with stupid people. They'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Seconded, I'd like to change my signature as well, to a line from one of my favorite poems.
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman

I would like to say that I have seen the entirety of the new Cosmos now and overall, I find it a worthy continuation of the legacy of the first.

In honor of that, I have changed my quote to the end of (as well as linked to the entirety of) the famous Pale Blue Dot speech of Carl Sagan.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."