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You mentioned that gargoyles and gargoyle beasts are distinct from most mammals and are classified as "gargates." Given their traits of milk production and warm bloodedness while laying eggs, I'd be tempted to classify gargoyles as monotremes, a subset of mammals that includes platupi and the echidnas, though I would need to look at their biochemistry to be absolutely certain (which has obvious logistical issues). I remember reading in the archives that gargoyles are the first "sentient" race, emerging sometime in the same time magnitude as dinosaurs. Classing gargoyles as monotremes could fit in with that time frame, because birds/dinosaurs and mammals diverged some time in the Carboniferous, significantly before the Triassic. This would put them in the same ecological classification as other monotremes (which you had demonstrated reluctance to accept before vis a vis platupi), but given the long time period, I would EXPECT them to look more and be more different from other monotremes than, say, a sparrow does from a T-rex, since their most recent common ancestor was much longer ago. Oddly enough, the most difficult thing about figuring gargoyles out is the difference between Lexington and the rest of the clan, because four vs six limbs is a major difference, and figuring out that phenotypic difference that still leaves the two types of gargoyles able to create viable offspring wasn't very easy. However, I think I managed to crack it. It is most probably a trait of the MOTHER of the gargoyle, not the gargoyle in question proper (so if Lexington decided he wanted a kid and found a willing female gargoyle (ignoring for thought experiment purposes that he wouldn't be interested in women), he probably wouldn't be able to pass it on). At some point, some female proto-gargate from just as gargoyles and gargoyle beasts were starting to diverge had a mutation that probably added an extra pair of limbs on their back. These extra limbs could have been useful, and could have evolved over time to help gargoyles fly (well, glide) through the power of "jazz hands" (like how bats fly proper). Eventually, another female gargoyle had another mutation that essentially told her kid's biological plan to omit the first pair of "arms" and only have the second kind (the ones that look wingish). Both phenotypes produced viable offspring with roughly the same ability to reproduce, but the second mutation probably started out rarer because it came later. So the general timeline looks like this:
Mammals and dinosaurs diverge -> Platupi diverge from other monotremes -> Gargates diverge from other monotremes (this comes after platupi because female gargoyles have mammary glands, and probably came about as a result of developing the first rudiments of stone sleep) -> Dinosaurs come on the scene -> Gargoyles and gargoyle beasts diverge from each other (probably via gargoyles becoming bipedal) -> Gargoyles evolve six limbs and this variant overtakes the population while the two back arms become more winglike -> the Lexington variant of gargoyles evolves -> Dinosaurs kick it -> Gargoyles gradually become more intelligent as their longer lifespans and lack of natural predators (thanks giant meteor) makes intelligence a more viable strategy for survival to make them more cooperative.
I don't know if this perfectly fits with what you have, but I did the best I could with the information (both show/FAQ-wise and through a degree in biochemistry) I had. What are your thoughts?
I love all this.
A couple thoughts that might or might not influence your thinking...
Lex has six limbs. The middle "rib" of his wings is actually a limb. In original development art (which you may have seen on the first season DVD) he has four hands: the two we're all used to and two more coming off those mid-wing arms. So what you're seeing in his final version his six limbs, but the middle two limbs have, uh... devolved into ribs.
We've discussed in the past that Gargoyle Beasts have vestigial wing bones beneath the skin.
A few things I've been wondering
1)Is Matt considered part of the Manhattan Clan or just a friend?
2)We know Broadway loves old detective movies but what film genres do you think the other members of the clan enjoy most?
3)Do any of the other Gargoyle clans enjoy aspects of human culture like music, books, comics, film or television?
1. An ally.
2. Brooklyn likes swashbucklers. Lex likes SciFi. Hudson likes Celebrity Hockey. Bronx likes anything that's muted.
3. Yes.
Topic: Gargoyle Biology
Question 1: Given the Gargoyles' wings are like bat or bird wings, nor noticeably have a smaller pair of hands, could there possibly have been a Gargate species that existed with two sets of arms, instead of a pair of arms and a pair of wings?
Question 2: Given the immense diversity between Gargoyle appearances, including the Loch Ness clan being semi-amphibious, do Gargoyles have a high genetic mutation rate or a special genetic adaptivity depending on the environment?
1. Well, I suppose. Interestingly, an older design for Lexington gave him two sets of true arms, including two sets of hands, with his wings largely unchanged, i.e. that middle set of arms that you can see in the center of his wings were still there, but they were more firmly developed and had actual hands at the end.
2. Maybe? I'd have to consult with some of our fan-biologists on the possibility. But keep in mind, Gargates are a VERY old species. They've had tons of time to evolve. Way longer than humans have had. The miracle is that they have maintained as much cultural, um, "integrity," as they have.
I've recently rewatched Awakening, and the scene where Goliath tells Demona that she can't kill an enemy unless it is "in the heat of battle" sparked a question in me: as of Phoenix, which members of the Manhattan Clan have actually killed someone?
Most have, in battle, in the tenth century. Angela hasn't. Egwardo hasn't. Nashville hasn't. Maybe Lex & Broadway haven't. But that seems unlikely/unrealistic.
Oh, and if you're counting her, Elisa hasn't.
Hey! Young Justice is my life. As of the time I'm sending this, Pride Month is almost over. I read over lots of the asks and replies you get on here and a fair amount are about something LGBT related, whether its about something thats akin to Fanfiction or borderline homophobic. I'm sure you might have come to dread those types of questions, but mines is a bit different.
I don't want you to think that I'm requesting this, i guess at the end of the day i am, but i mean so in the most respectful way possible. Please... If there's ever a time when you might include LGBT content or anything like it in YJ, please don't let it be queerbaiting. Its such a horrible thing to do to us. I don't think I'd be able to handle it from my favorite show. I don't think you'd ever let that happen, and i don't even think we'd get LGBT relationships in the show, but i just had to say it. For myself, just in case.
I had to look up queerbaiting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting
Some of the examples given on the wikipedia page seem unfair to me. (Though I'm happy to grant that as a straight male, I'm coming at this from a very different point of view.) For example, calling Holmes and Watson queerbaiting actually seems outrageous to me. Creators need to be able to present two male or two female best friends in a close but non-sexual relationship without being accused of trying to "bait" anyone.
I'm not going to address anything related to YJ, since that would involve spoilers, but I will bring up some Gargoyles stuff, as an example.
In our minds, Lexington is gay. But in those mid-nineties days when the series was originally on the air, there was absolutely no way Disney would let us objectively show this. Nevertheless, we strove to write the character to be consistent with his orientation. We thought we were doing the best possible alternative. So were we queerbaiting? And what would the alternative have been? Not depicting any LGBTQ characters at all?
I, personally, don't have the clout to make (successful) ultimatums to my employers. I could, of course, have insisted on being allowed to show Lexington kiss a guy. But if I had insisted that it's the kiss or I walk, Disney would have shrugged and waved goodbye to me. And my replacement would likely - if only to reassure his or her bosses - have made Lex objectively STRAIGHT. Is that better for anyone?
This kind of thing is simply a reality of the industry. It is getting better. There are plenty of series we can point to that demonstrate that. And I like to think I'm trying to help make things better still. But I'm going to - for my own mental health - reject the notion of queerbaiting almost entirely.
Maybe I'm not yet 'woke' enough. That's certainly possible. But I'm going to consistently push to depict what I can, to suggest what I cannot and to not for one second shy away from depicting two same sex characters having a close but platonic relationship, because (for example) one or both might be heterosexual. Because I write characters. I don't write agendas-masquerading-as-characters. I have agendas, but I don't write characters who are nothing but. I try to keep my characters consistent and true to themselves. But I'm not baiting anyone. And I'm certainly not trying to trick anyone with this sort of thing. Quite the reverse. I'm simply trying to do the best I can under occasionally hostile conditions.
Sorry if that's disappointing. But it's the best 2018 Greg Weisman can give you.
How old was Thom Adcox-Hernandez when you asked him to do the voice of Lexington for Walt Disney's Gargoyles in 1994?
That would depend on how old he was in 1994.
I know that Lexington is the tech gargoyle of the group, do you think Lexington ever thought of find a mate that has his science and tech mind?
I think Lexington wants to keep his own mind.
You've revealed that Lexington is gay; that Fox and Puck are bisexual; and that Owen is asexual.
So, if you're inclined, I'd appreciate if if you finally settle the debate. Is Demona heterosexual, bisexual, or something else?
Using the word "revealed" makes me uncomfortable. What I say in different contexts doesn't make it canon. Yes, Lexington is gay, in my mind. The rest sound like things I might have said at a Blue Mug or something. Nothing said at a Blue Mug should be taken as definitive canon. Nothing is canon that can't be confirmed from the 65 canon episodes or the 18 canon comic book issues.
In any case, NO SPOILERS.
Hello Greg,
I have a question about the Avalon Clan and their biological relationships to the Manhattan Clan. I am going to use the "placeholder names" for those Gargs that don't have given names in cannon.
Can we assume that Hudson does not have any biological children there because Hyppolyta, Broadway, and True are his only three offspring?
You've mentioned before that Angela is the only biological child of Goliath's, and she is no longer there, so none for him either.
Brooklyn had at least one brother, Brooksbro...was he and older or younger brother? If older, then there is a potential for him to have a biological sibling on Avelon...is that the case?
Does Lexington have a younger biological sibling on Avelon?
Does Bronx?
1. Yes.
2. Yep.
3. Brooksbro is older. (But Brooklyn had MANY brothers and sisters. Stop thinking like a human.)
4. No comment on whether or not Brooklyn has a younger biological sibling among the Avalon clan.
5. No comment.
6. No comment.
Hello Greg,
I scoured the unanswered questions and the archives. As far as I can tell, nobody has asked this of you before:
1.)When did you know while writing Lexington that he would eventually realize that he's gay?
I'm a 25 year old gay man living in Minnesota. I loved Gargoyles as a kid. I had almost all the action figures (couldn't find the castle play set so I made my own out of cardboard boxes lol) and all the VHS tapes. Now I have all the released seasons on DVD. I grew up feeling different all the time from my peers. Your show resonated with me! It's still a viewing pleasure of mine. In retrospect, I think the clan was an allegory for how I felt in the world. In the minority, alone and isolated and misunderstood by society. I was always cheering when more Gargoyles were introduced from Avalon.
I have one more question that is about the writing of the show:
2.) Were you and the show's writers warned or advised that kids couldn't follow continuity in an animated series?
I was between 5-7 years old while Gargoyles aired and I was fascinated that the show relied on flashbacks and foreshadowing and slow builds of the storylines.
I'm so glad that the show was on when I was young. It had a profound impact on me. Lexington was ALWAYS my favorite and I just recently found out he was to be gay. Thanks for making me feel less alone growing up. I wish you continued success!
Thank you for your time!!
1. I don't remember exactly. (Twenty years ago, you know.) But it was probably some time during Season Two. Definitely before we wrote Turf.
2. No. Not then. That's come up on other shows since, but I was following a simplified version of the Hill Street Blues model on Gargoyles. One clean story per episode. Multiple storyLINES in play.
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