Fedora Matt: Yes, as far as I know, that was a livestream comment only and didn't make it into the socials. (Knowing how vicious the socials, ironically, can be, it would not really be unexpected for the accusation to come up, but I have not gone looking for it.) For my part, I suspect the main error that people pointed out on the stream was less the result of a computer garbling and more like an "oh, crud, how do the wings work?" error. (The extra fingers, I don't know.)

Maybe the same can be said for the show as a whole. If it had developed beyond the pitch, Ciro certainly would have figured out how the wings work and (we could hope, anyway) would also have figured out how the characters work. To Craig's point, if the initial pitch is story only, potentially things start to look a little more familiar once the characters start to fill in and can react to the story.

I want to be charitable about that. I want to remember that the pattern for a shirt looks nothing like a shirt until it's stitched together; likewise the pitch, the pattern for a show, may not resemble the final product until the combined efforts of the talent and the production staff pull it together. On the other hand, the pitch's way of handling the time jump still feels clumsy; surely the characters could have gotten into such a mess without having to be frozen and inert.

And that, I think, ties in with Craig's point about different continuities. It seems to me that, the setting being so broad, it would be quite easy to set a story anywhere from ancient Rome to 2198 and still be compatible with canon if you wanted to do that. ("Dark Ages" and "Demona" did exactly that, to some extent: both tied to, and developed, the canon story, but with enough flex to let them be mostly independent stories.)

Personally, I DO think that, as the developer of a "Gargoyles" series that did not involve Greg Weisman, you would still want to connect to his continuity, and I think the smart move for Disney would be to encourage that. It's the difference between a new series being a stand-alone thing and one that provides an entry point to all this lore--or, put another way, as Disney you would want to encourage people to go out and stream the original series, buy the comics, etc., and that's a little harder to do if the new series doesn't track with what's gone before. Canon is a courtesy, I maintain, and you don't actually need to stick to it for the story to be legitimate, for whatever that means. But it's a courtesy to the audience, too.

Moving on: I am still going to press that "Stone Cold Case" takes place a few weeks after Christmas 1997, for the reasons I'd given previously. I'm wrong on that, of course, but I'm still going to press it. Nyah.

Sorry for the slow responses. I'd say I was too busy to get back here and reply more promptly, but (aside from being a really arrogant thing to say) it would be only half-true. The trouble is more that I'd get stuck here and my boss would start to complain.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2026 10:48:06 am EDT from 108.69.72.60

Judging from Greg Weisman's hints that the original Three Keys to Power were responsible for the Humility Spell affecting gargoyles everywhere, which was cast by the Roman Magus - and who also wrote the Grimorum - the Grimorum must have become one of the Three Keys not long after it was written (depending on how much time passed between the Roman Magus writing it and his using it to work the Humility Spell).

Which indicates, in turn, that Odin must have given up his eye for a drink from Mimir's well before Caesar Augustus' time (though I won't try to guess how long that was before it), and that the Phoenix Gate had already come into existence somehow (and I won't try speculating on that either at present). Clearly the Roman Magus found a way of getting the Gate and the Eye. I won't try to guess whether he made those the original Three Keys to Power or not (if the latter, the Grimorum must have replaced a so-far-unknown Key - which would have been a case of "not all the Keys became Keys at once" - in contrast to what we got when the familiar Three Keys to Power were disposed of so close to each other - and then the next set were disposed of even closet together, all at once).

Bound books like the Grimorum, incidentally, seem to have gotten started in the Roman Empire (scrolls were the preferred approach to writing things down before that) - the Roman Magus might have played a major role in bringing about that innovation in his making the Grimorum, assuming he was responsible for its familiar state and it didn't get changed at some point between his time and the tenth century.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Jun 5, 2026 7:46:25 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Thank you, Blaise! And thanks for sharing all of your thoughts!

A thought about the canon Grimorum: at what point do you think it became one of the Three Keys of Power? It was first called that (chronologically) in 997, but we know it was written (assembled?) long before that. I wonder when it became one of the Keys and what it replaced.
Matt
"If he's in Brooklyn, then who's in you?" "Wouldn't you like to know...?" - Othello/Broadway and Puck/Coldstone, "Possession"
posted @ Fri, Jun 5, 2026 10:05:07 am EDT from 69.229.197.48

BLAISE - I'd wondered myself, from the difference between the names, whether the "Grimorium Arcanium" was supposed to be a new book entirely, which would have solved the problem of the Grimorum Arcanorum being destroyed in "Avalon' - but that raises the question of why choose an almost identical name. (Indeed, I wonder whether a different device than a spell book would have been a better option for trapping the gargoyles in stone sleep.) At any rate, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Jun 5, 2026 9:22:35 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

****A rolling carry-on bag wheels itself into the Room. It unzips and Blaise's head pops out.****
Packing for a trip (my niece is graduating High School!), but wanted to stop by here first for a little catch-up.

MATT> Happy belated birthday.

ED> Good to see you again (from last week), hope to see more of your thoughts on the Demona "Better Angels" series.

CONGRATS TO KEITH DAVID> A 70th birthday AND getting his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame?! What a combo!

NEW GARGOYLES STORIES STARTING IN AUGUST> YES! So happy to have this confirmed and a date given. It's a roughly four month gap, sure, but we've had worse. Others have already speculated what will happen based on where things left off and on the solicitation. For myself...well, [SPOILER] the solicitations after "Here in Manhattan" were a bit more accurate to the contents of the comics, so MAyBe our fan speculations here will turn out to be on the money. [/SPOILER]

THE CIRO NIELI PITCH> I've kind of wanted to share my own thoughts on this, too, although most of them have already been covered.
First off, I agree with Greg Bishansky: this was probably purely the preliminary pitch and those have a tendency to evolve. Also, I'm a big believer in "execution is generally more important than concept," so extrapolating the potential quality of anything from just an image and two short paragraphs is a bit of an exercise in futility.

With that out of the way, though:
*I will say that I think one of the sticking points for some of us is the idea that this would have been a "continuation"--especially one that probably would have had less input from Greg Weisman or anyone else from the original series than even the Marvel comics or "The Goliath Chronicles." And we saw how those came out....
* Speaking of TGC, the end of that show is probably where this potential pitch would have picked up from...you know, before skipping to 2020.
* "Canmore" probably was going to be John Castaway (even without the overt confirmation it should have gotten in TGC, it's a pretty easy connection to make), but I wonder if the "Grimorum Arcanium" really was just the Grimorum Arcanorum misspelled, or if it was actually supposed to be a whole new magic book. When the spelling of Elisa Maza's name got corrected from "Eliza Masa" (wow...) the magic book's name remained the same. Frankly, the "magic book that's an exact copy of the Grimorum Arcanorum" macguffin is something I've seen in fan fiction before anyway, so it's not that far of a stretch.
* Actually, "fan fiction" was what was running through my mind while reading this. It really does kind of feel like it!
* Canmore as the new big bad and taking over the crime families (kind of like what Demona has done in the comics now) and using them and "magic beasts" to take over New York? Others have pointed out the character and logistic questions this setup raises. For me, I'm just wondering "Where's Demona?" And "What's the Xanatos family up to?" Doubtless, these questions would have been answered, but just the shift in focus itself fascinates me.
* Having Elisa take "the long way" to 2020 and be the one to wake up the clan again is...certainly an interesting take. Leaving aside the details of why it took her so long and how exactly being commissioner allowed her to break the spell, I find myself more concerned by how this would affect the Goliath and Elisa romance. It couldn't have just...ended it, right? I can't imagine one of the *main focuses of the entire series* just being dropped.
* The art in the image? I actually don't hate it. I mean, yeah, it's annoying that they all seem to have grown extra fingers, and Lexington looks VERY different, but beyond that it still looks like the characters in just another art style. I don't mind the weapons (I mean Brooklyn's acquired quite the arsenal in the comics anyway), although a giant hammer strikes me (um...pun not intended) as being an odd choice. Of course, I can't see Goliath's bionic arm, so jury's still out regarding that particular element. Athough, I feel such a modification would be a better fit for Lexington (pun definitely intended).

Honestly, though? At the end of it all? I actually find it kind of fascinating to see a different interpretation like this. If this weren't an attempted continuation but a whole new property, I would even admit to some interest. Greg Weisman's canon is the true canon to me, of course, and I'm always thankful for more of it, but I've sometimes wondered how things might look if "Gargoyles" were ever to go the route of its comic forebears (Superman, Batman, X-Men, Spider-Man, etc.) and receive different iterations and interpretations throughout the decades. Some would obviously be more "source accurate" than others, but just seeing how the property can inspire other takes is something I've thought about more than once.

All right, back to it!
****Blaise's head ducks back into the bag, which zips up and rolls out.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Fri, Jun 5, 2026 1:15:26 am EDT from 45.48.46.39

A thought I had left over from last week's "Voices From the Eyrie" podcast; since there might be a few people here who haven't listened to it yet, I'm putting this in spoilers, though much of it is probably not that spoiler-heavy.

[SPOILER] The mention about people comparing Xanatos to Tony Stark feels a lot funnier these days, thanks to the first "Gargoyles"/"Fantastic Four" crossover. But what struck me more was Bishansky's comparing Xanatos to Odysseus - something that had occurred to me for a while, of course (Xanatos as a trickster of Greek descent). I've recently, after hearing that, started picturing Xanatos battling Proteus in his cyclops shape - complete with Proteus boasting that nobody can stop him and Xanatos, after taking him down, saying "Just call me 'Nobody'." (Come to think of it, Xanatos was supposed to appear in the "New Olympians" spin-off.) [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2026 8:26:13 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Congratulations to Keith David, and also happy birthday to Keith David! What a great way to celebrate.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2026 4:19:51 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Thanks Phoenician for sharing the link.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2026 3:12:44 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

For those interested to watch the Walk of Fame event live (I've no idea if it'll be saved for posterity):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdQjSgxlf3w
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2026 2:22:25 pm EDT from 170.85.8.167

Congratulations, Keith!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2026 8:20:59 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Exciting news. Just learned that Keith David is getting his own star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame tomorrow.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2026 5:21:52 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

I note that the GargWiki timeline was updated to show that "Stone Cold Case" takes place on December 24, 1997...just two nights after the first Winter Special. I'd previously remarked that it felt like some time had elapsed between the two stories, since Shahpar says that Lance has become her muse...but I guess she was speaking in the VERY recent sense. And since there's no way that "Lance in a Santa hat" card would be mass-produced for Christmas 1997, I'm assuming it's just something she worked up for her own use and intends to give to a friend or family member.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2026 2:18:10 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

CRAIG - That's a comforting thought. Thanks for sharing it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 11:32:05 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Todd > I don't know if that's necessarily true. I think the Dynamite comics and the Disney+ show could coexist as different continuities. That's pretty common in a lot of media franchises (Star Wars for one, as mentioned by Matthew), and is a situation particularly familiar to comic book readers, so I don't think it would pose a problem. For instance, when the 1987 DuckTales show came out, there were DuckTales comic books with the updated versions of the characters side-by-side on newsstands with the ongoing Uncle Scrooge books featuring the classic versions. Then the 2017 DuckTales came out, but didn't supplant either of the prior incarnations. Dynamite is currently publishing comics in the 1987 DuckTales style (or was, until recently), Marvel and Fantagraphics are publishing classic Uncle Scrooge, and I could certainly see the 2017 version being revived in comics form at some point.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 9:57:53 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

MATTHEW - [Craig brought up the possibility of the James Wan/Gary Dauberman show for Disney+ or even the Jordan Peele live-action movie that was pitched some years ago. I have no doubt that if any of those projects came to fruition, they would be THE Gargoyles media getting all the attention and treated as the sole thing to focus audience attention towards.] - And since, from the evidence, both are in a different continuity than the original animated series, I suspect that would definitely be it for anything set in the original series' world. The new take on the gargoyles would replace the old version - much like other properties (say, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 9:20:33 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Okay, going through the recent posts.

morrand> "Some of the comments suspected the pitch art was AI-generated, as we now routinely do, but I think the balance of opinion was against it being so despite some of the odd details."

I hope that comment remained on one of the livestreams, because if it was posted where Ciro posts his art...oooh, that is not something that would go over well.
Most anyone who does illustrations, character design, or even mock-ups for creative pitches would not appreciate their work being called AI-generated.

While I'm not the biggest fan of the art from the pitch, there's certainly a distinct angular design that's present in some of the 2D animated shows he's worked on. Super Robot Monkey Team being the most obvious and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes to a smaller degree.

Craig> I was actually introduced to "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" from the movie and later read the books. I will admit the movie is corny but I do like Martin Freeman as Arthur Dent and you can't say the Jim Henson Company didn't do some great work with the practical effects.

Todd> Your comment on treating the animated series as the sole canon brings to mind other problems certain media franchises have with what I call, "Tiers of Importance." Basically there's a hierarchy in a franchise and if you're work isn't in the upper echelons, then people at the higher points can change or dismiss anything you worked on without consultation. This has been an issue for some time with Star Wars since Disney bought it with the current tiers as such:

At the top are the Live-Action Films
Below that are the Live-Action TV Series
Below that are the Animated Series
Below that are the Video Games
And at the very bottom is all literature whether Novels or Comics

Craig brought up the possibility of the James Wan/Gary Dauberman show for Disney+ or even the Jordan Peele live-action movie that was pitched some years ago. I have no doubt that if any of those projects came to fruition, they would be THE Gargoyles media getting all the attention and treated as the sole thing to focus audience attention towards.

There's quite the difference between the Disney that originally greenlit the show from back in the 90's and the one we have today. And rather unfortunately the one of today isn't that concerned with print media. I think we're rather fortunate to have the comic series ongoing without too much interference from the corporate side of things. God only knows what would happen if Disney decided that Gargoyles deserved a "better" person in charge of the franchise.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 8:42:56 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

My comment is still there, but I know someone who had her comment removed. I don't believe she was being rude or obnoxious, but Ciro may have seen it differently, and that's ultimately his prerogative. My own comment was mostly about preferring a continuation by Greg Weisman and less about the specifics of what was being proposed. Maybe there were line-crossing comments that were removed as well, but I never saw them. Again, it's Ciro's post and he can moderate it however he chooses.

At the same time, there's really not much to say. This was likely a very early pitch, and many of the questions people have may well have been addressed if the project had moved further into development. After all, even Greg Weisman's original Gargoyles pitch differs in some respects from what ultimately appeared on screen. Early development documents are snapshots, not finished products.

This is unlikely to come up on Voices from the Eyrie because there simply isn't much to discuss. More importantly, it wouldn't be fair to put Greg Weisman on the spot and ask him to publicly critique the work of a fellow creator. That would be unfair to both Greg and Ciro. For what it's worth, it hasn't come up in private conversation either.

As for whether this would have helped or hurt the property, I honestly don't know. It's a moot point. The project never moved forward.

What is moving forward is the next Gargoyles comic. The covers look fantastic. It's almost like Demona is taunting the fans from Frank Paur's cover (atta girl!). And as for this "all-powerful ancient evil," my theory is the same as the popular theory. If we're right, I can't wait.

We're eating good.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 8:34:40 pm EDT from 73.219.67.168

Matt > I think the difference is that, in the '90s, the Marvel Comics and TGC were the Johnny-Come-Latelies. The original TV series came first and was the best-known. If you mentioned "Gargoyles" to someone, they were thinking of the Disney Afternoon show. Whereas today, while the show is still well-remembered, I would venture to guess that it's not a major cultural touchstone for most people younger than a certain age bracket. (I won't specify that age cutoff because I don't want to think about it.) That leaves the distinct possibility that if, say, the James Wan/Gary Dauberman show for Disney+ gets made, that will become THE Gargoyles for a good percentage of the populace.

That being said, I think we're pretty much on the same page. Any kind of non-canon revival would be a gamble, but in life, any kind of gain/advancement requires a degree of risk.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 4:44:24 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Craig> I hear your point. I can understand your sentiment. New non-canon content is truly a risk (not that we are the ones who get to make a choice in the matter), but I still say that the benefits would likely outweigh the downsides. Even in a worse case scenario. But that's just my feelings on the matter. I'm totally fine that this pitch never went anywhere and I'm grateful for what we've had (particularly these last four years). I don't want the canon legacy to be ruined by bad content. But during the original run of Gargoyles we had the Marvel comics and TGC and those have not hurt the property. I think we could survive any non-canon content at this point. And I think we are more likely to pick up new fans than lose existing ones from something like this.

I just really wish Disney would just take the leap and make 2198 with Weisman at the helm already.
Matt
"If he's in Brooklyn, then who's in you?" "Wouldn't you like to know...?" - Othello/Broadway and Puck/Coldstone, "Possession"
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 4:23:52 pm EDT from 69.229.197.48

Fifth.

On the "Timedancer" subject that morrand brought up, I assume that Nieli viewed only the animated series as canon (whether he'd have included "The Goliath Chronicles" in it is an unknown) and that the comics wouldn't count.

I was amused to discover a page about the proposed revival, with a still of the trio at the top. While the article took a favorable view towards the reboot (mostly around the art), I found the trio's expressions very amusing and definitely echoing the response of most of the fandom:

https://thedirect.com/article/disney-gargoyles-reboot-scrapped

Incidentally, I once speculated on someone coming up with a really controversial reboot: it opens with Elisa breaking Goliath, Hudson, the trio, and Bronx out of one of those sci-fi containment units where the prisoners are plunged into a virtual reality setting that they believe to be real, and revealing that the gargoyles were captured by whoever ran that place (the Illuminati, perhaps) and everything from "Avalon Part One" on was just an illusion generated by it - with the revelation, further, that not only were Angela, the rest of the Avalon clan, and the gargoyles around the world illusions, but that there are no surviving gargoyles anywhere apart from the Manhattan clan, Demona, and Coldstone and Thailog, that they truly are the last of their kind. (This one I imagined after reading a few comments from people who thought that the series was a lot better when it looked as if the Manhattan clan really were the last gargoyles and that the species was doomed to extinction, because of the tragic quality there, and thought that the revelation there were other gargoyles out there ruined it - and then thought of how a reboot might go if the person in charge of the reboot held that opinion as well.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 9:32:32 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

morrand > Your comment brought something into focus for me that had been buzzing around in my subconscious: the pitch doesn't say anything about the characters. It's all story. The only characters mentioned at all are "Canmore" (we don't know who this is or what his motivations are), "Eliza Maza" (misspelled, and we get zero insight into her thoughts/motivations), and Goliath (all we know is that he lost an arm--EDGY!). I know this is only a few sentences meant to sum up the series concept, but it's so telling to compare this to Greg's pitch for the original series, which was ENTIRELY character-driven.

Matt > I appreciate that sentiment, and I agree that every artistic work should be judged on its own merits. But I disagree that "anything that would bring renewed focus to the franchise would be a good thing." I know this is a sentiment that Greg has expressed in the past as well, but I respectfully have to differ. A bad adaptation or update or reboot could absolutely hurt the reputation of the original, and put the property into an even worse position. The example I personally always come back to is Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I recommended that book series to so many acquaintances, and always got people coming back to me telling me how much they loved it. Once the 2005 movie came out, it became much more difficult to get people to give it a chance, because they found the film corny, and assumed that was a reflection on the original text. I still get that reaction to this day, two decades later. I'm not saying the property should never be revived. But it's absolutely not true that "any publicity is good publicity."
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 9:25:52 am EDT from 69.118.30.106

Nevermind. FOURTH!

And I was feeling a bit pale.
Matt
"If he's in Brooklyn, then who's in you?" "Wouldn't you like to know...?" - Othello/Broadway and Puck/Coldstone, "Possession"
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 8:51:14 am EDT from 69.229.197.48

Third!

I think without Greg Weisman on board, I would have looked at the 2020 series the same way I would look at TGC or any of the movie pitches: not canon, but not inherently bad. I would've checked it out, I'm sure. And anything that would bring renewed focus to the franchise would be a good thing, even if the content wasn't made with Greg's involvement and/or isn't canon. For all we know, had the 2020 show launched, we might've gotten the comic sooner than we did. Or maybe have a movie or Weisman led show in the works or who knows what?

The point is, 30+ years on, we can't be choosy. Any interest from the powers that be and any vehicle to bring in new fans should be embraced! The 2020 show might've been off canon, but that doesn't mean it was going to be bad or good. I would judge it on its own merits while still hoping for canon stories. The fact that there are people who happily and fully embrace the Fantastic Four and Darkwing crossovers but who are knee jerk against this 2020 show is baffling to me.
Matt
"If he's in Brooklyn, then who's in you?" "Wouldn't you like to know...?" - Othello/Broadway and Puck/Coldstone, "Possession"
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 8:50:22 am EDT from 69.229.197.48

(counting) Uh, third, I think.

There was a good, long, chat about Nieli's pitch over the weekend on one of the livestreams. The overall sentiment was not great, although all the commentary and the multiple darts thrown at it there were within the bounds of criticism and I don't think it turned into personal attacks.

To summarize, I think the group on the stream was baffled about what was going on, more than anything. The storyline is so out of sync with the story we have had that to describe it as a "respectful continuation" (or however that was phrased) is either a willful misread of the basic story or badly confused. It does look a little like this approach focused on how dark the original "Gargoyles" story is; only, the original story is not at all that dark, and the pitch sort of comes off as an attempt to write a continuation based entirely on the events in "Future Tense," but not quite. Fedora Matt's mention of "Future Tense" is really on-point because of this. I don't quite doubt that the time skip was put in just to get to modern times, but if so, then to amplify Craig's remark, that's laziness. There's nothing obvious to prevent the characters from having lived out that period rather than sleeping through it except an inability (or lack of desire) to figure out why they failed to prevent things from happening as they did.

But the big complaint seemed to be the use of "Canmore" as the Big Bad, because it doesn't make sense. Paraphrasing: it's not obviously in that character's motivation to take over New York City (even if, to echo Craig's and Todd's comments from last week, such a thing could be done without someone fighting back), let alone to use magical methods to do it (that not being an arrow in their quiver, so to speak, at least not unless this is a brand-new character), and then of course we have the slight consistency problem of them presumably pressing for human supremacy by making and using non-human creatures to dominate the humans. Maybe this is an entirely different person; maybe, even, this would bring the other Hunters around to an alliance with the gargoyles, temporarily, to fix things. (That stretch would put Mr. Fantastic to shame, but maybe someone could achieve it.)

The artwork that had been put up got a lot of needling as well. All of the characters have extra fingers and there is something weird going on with Angela's left wing vs. her arm. The characters also just look angry, except for Lexington, who looks manic. None of this helps break the impression that the proposed show would have been going for "edgy" in a very boilerplate way, and not really paying attention to who the characters are or what they do, or what motivates them, or any of that story stuff, of which there ought to be plenty to work with. Maybe it would have smoothed off in production. Nobody now can say. (Some of the comments suspected the pitch art was AI-generated, as we now routinely do, but I think the balance of opinion was against it being so despite some of the odd details.)

Incidentally, I've just recognized that the artwork also erases the Timedance storyline, judging from Brooklyn's appearance in it. So there is that and I'm not sure of what exactly is being respectfully continued.

As far as comments being blocked or removed, that came up too, but I will leave it to someone else to comment further, if they will. The specific case I'd heard of was on Instagram, which is not something I use. This being the Internet, I do not doubt for a moment that there were some nasty comments being made (maybe some from the fandom, probably a lot from random troublemakers) and it may have been necessary to limit comments as a result just to keep things from getting too far off the rails.

Someone floated the notion that the proposed show would have been a continuation on from TGC, and that's certainly a thing that one could do. I don't know how that would be an especially desirable product.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 8:42:17 am EDT from 108.69.72.60

Matthew > That phrasing on GargWiki leaves two possibilities open. (1) Fans reacted inappropriately and resorted to harassment or worse, causing Nieli to block/restrict comments. (2) Fan reaction was appropriate, but negative, and Nieli was unhappy with the response, so he blocked/restricted comments.

I agree with you that Possibility (1) could be the case, given my experiences of the Internet. But I think Possibility (2) is equally likely. Artists can be sensitive when their work doesn't go over well, and I certainly understand that reaction. It sucks to share something you worked hard on and find that people don't like it. I don't know if there was harassment, but the GargWiki entry doesn't say there was, and I wouldn't jump to that conclusion without any evidence.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 7:16:52 am EDT from 69.118.30.106

Craig> I first read about the pitch through the Apocrypha section on the wiki, this is what was included at the bottom.

"Following the release of the pitch materials, some fans raised concerns regarding continuity, characterization, and other aspects of the proposal. Several fans reported being blocked by Nieli after commenting on the pitch. Nieli subsequently restricted the Instagram post, preventing further public comments."

There's nothing there to confirm nor deny that fan response was negative enough to get comments removed. I did check out the Instagram post itself, but they don't include notices of, "This comment was removed." And I'm not going to go around and ask if anyone here had a comment taken down.

As such, I'm mostly extrapolating the information based on my experiences with fanbases and how....passionate they can be.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 4:35:34 am EDT from 184.23.35.150

[SPOILER] Second! [/SPOILER]

I think probably I can ditch the spoiler tags for this one.

Matthew > I wasn't aware of any of this blocking or disabling comments that you're talking about. Most if not all of the comments I saw on Reddit seemed within the bounds of appropriateness, albeit impassioned. I assume maybe you mean people were commenting things on Nieli's social media?

I think it's fair play for people to comment on material that Nieli chose to share, so long as the criticism is limited to the work itself and doesn't descend into personal attacks etc. He presumably put the material out there with the aim of generating feedback/discussion, and he's smart enough to recognize the risk of that feedback being negative. That being said, it is kind of funny how worked up some people get over a failed pitch. It's fun to discuss it, especially with a lull in new canon material; but it's really not worth being angry about something that is not going to happen!
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 4:20:13 am EDT from 69.118.30.106

First!

Read through the points of the pitch on the wiki, don't think it needs the spoiler bracket considering it's open information. But given that all previous posts have been in spoilers, might as well go along.

[SPOILER] So when I saw that Ciro Nieli was behind the pitch it got me thinking, Greg worked with Ciro on both Super Monkey and the 2012 edition of Ninja Turtles. So it's not like the two are wholly unaware of each other and their respective style.

While I believe that Nieli does have the utmost respect for Gargoyles there's also the simple fact that showrunners, directors, creators and the like also have their own ideas when adapting works. Nieli has never hidden his own love of various properties so I could absolutely believe that Batman Beyond was an influence as well as the idea to bring the story into the modern day.

For that matter, the TMNT episode Greg worked on was part of the "Farmhouse Arc" that goes back to the original comics from Mirage Studios, but adapted to include elements of sci-fi and horror movies since Ciro Nieli is a big fan. I'm not going to say the adaptation was better or worse than the original comic or from what was depicted in earlier adaptations. Just that it has Nieli's signature on it. Reading about how New York would be overrun with monsters also brings to mind the premise of the second season where a bunch of mutagen would spill out from an out-of-control Krang ship that would lead to the creation of a number of different mutants the Turtles would encounter and fight across the series. The crime lords also vying for control also calls back to the "City at War" arc the Ninja Turtles had.

I'm perfectly happy with the comic series we have now (though in a perfect world it would've been animated). I do think that it's better than Nieli's pitch but in 2020 when we were lacking in Gargoyle material, I can't say I wouldn't have wanted to check it out. That being said there are a number of issues:

One of which is that the time skip feels unnecessary considering the implications of "Future Tense" and the urgency the travelers had to get back before such a nightmarish scenario could take place. So for the heroes to lose so much time not long after their reunion and find their situation and relationships irrevocably changed just feels narratively cruel.

Another is reading about fan response to Nieli's original post. I do think that criticism and backlash are just an inevitable risk for anything published, even if it was just a pitch, but at the same time getting to the point where blocking and preventing further comments does seem to be a bit much. I hope that we as grown adults can conduct ourselves properly, even when a pitch that didn't go anywhere didn't meet our expectations. [/SPOILER]
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2026 1:31:24 am EDT from 184.23.35.150