It goes without saying that the "This Day in History" feature was largely inspired by posts of yours like this, Todd. Nevertheless, today's revealed a page the wiki still lacked . . . but not anymore. Thanks again!

https://gargwiki.net/Purple_Heart
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Fri, Aug 7, 2026 12:02:14 pm EDT from 72.249.221.26

Sorry for the double post, but I came across an amusing coincidence this morning. Today is Lighthouse Day in the U.S., and it's also the anniversary of the founding of the Purple Heart in 1782. And Jeffrey Robbins' Purple Heart was mentioned and shown in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Aug 7, 2026 9:17:28 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

MATTHEW - [I was covering the whole of Young Justice doing those longwinded analysis and reviews, similar to how Todd covered Gargoyles.]

In fact, my covering "Gargoyles" for the 30th anniversary in 2024-25 did draw on your "Young Justice" reviews in the format; I was inspired by it to include "favorite lines" at the end and occasionally opened with a quote. (And there are a few cases where I thought of an opening quote for my review of an episode only after I'd reviewed it; I've thought of a couple of quotes from Tennyson's Arthurian poetry, particularly "The Idylls of the King", that I ought to have done for "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" and "Pendragon", and likewise, really should have opened the review of "A Little Crazy" with the "Superstitious, Cowardly Lot" song from the "Batman: the Musical" scene in "Batman Beyond".) Even more specifically, I'd noted in your "Young Justice" reviews that you'd include a background feature on a DC Comics character in each episode, filling the reader in on their depiction in the original comics, and decided to do something similar for a lot of the legendary elements in "Gargoyles" (Merlin, Puck, the Weird Sisters, the Cauldron of Life, etc.), if not in every review.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Aug 6, 2026 9:32:19 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

That's it! Thank you - I appreciate the help and Matthew's good memory, and I applaud Masterdramon's database wizardry. And I'm looking forward to the new comic series launching next week!
Karrin Blue
posted @ Thu, Aug 6, 2026 7:39:53 am EDT from 70.188.154.198

hello morgage
haha - [folaces538 at amupx dot com]
sahil
posted @ Thu, Aug 6, 2026 3:47:02 am EDT from 103.44.52.83

That was sufficient to narrow it down. Here it is:

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/comment/archive/index.php?archive_date=2021-09-26
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them until they believe. No matter how many times it takes." - Madoka Kaname
posted @ Thu, Aug 6, 2026 1:57:21 am EDT from 75.85.65.128

Huh, disappear for a day and suddenly the comments just double.

First off, Happy Birthday, Robby! And thanks for dropping by and all the good work.

I hadn't heard about about the thing with Brent Spiner, nor have I heard the full context of the conversation. If I had to guess I'd imagine that Brent was misremembering something or heard wrong.

Karrin> I know exactly what you're talking about because it involved me in a way. I was covering the whole of Young Justice doing those longwinded analysis and reviews, similar to how Todd covered Gargoyles. Anyway, after I covered "Overwhelmed" Greg did stop by and went into further detail about how Artemis' mindscape and how there were no other manipulations (aside from M'Gann and Zatanna lying to her at the beginning).

I don't exactly remember when it was but I was doing this as a buildup for the Fourth Season and I finished not long before it aired. Maybe a week or two before hand. Hopefully that helps narrow your search.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Thu, Aug 6, 2026 1:49:54 am EDT from 184.23.35.150

Hm - actually, shoot. I could swear there was something of someone asking if M'gann specifically had mentally nudged Artemis at all - "All Artemis all the time" would still cover that, but it's going to bug me that I now can't refer back to something specific.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Thu, Aug 6, 2026 12:13:11 am EDT from 70.188.154.198

I think it is! I suppose I have past me to thank for asking the question so specifically - though for some reason I could've sworn it was one of the times Greg popped in here. I wonder which conversation and topic I'm mixing up with this one... But anyways, I appreciate you finding it so fast!

It is too bad that there's no good way to search all the comment rooms - there's been so many interesting talks here over the years, but unless you remember one happening around a specific date then finding anything specific is going to be looking for a needle in a haystack. But then, more modern websites are even worse for searchability half the time.

In slightly cheerier news than my attempts to rebuild my bookmarks, if anyone here plays the TTRPG Pathfinder - next July, in 2027, Pathfinder 2e players will get an official Gargoyle ancestry for PCs. I'm quite excited for it - and during the announcement the presenter namedropped Jonathan Frakes, so I'm expecting it to have a reference to Gargoyles or two (although I wonder if he misspoke and meant to say Keith David?).

Anyways it'll be a wait but I'll be looking forward to it for the next year.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 11:50:34 pm EDT from 70.188.154.198

KARRIN: Is this it?

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=25154
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them until they believe. No matter how many times it takes." - Madoka Kaname
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 11:28:32 pm EDT from 75.85.65.128

So, this is a shot in the dark, but... years ago, when season 3 of Young Judtice was airing, we of course had the bit where M'gann and Zatanna set up a psychic sandbox for Artemis while she thinks she's really talking to Wally's soul. Somewhere - I believe in the comment room - Greg came on to confirm that yes, everything in there came from Artemis' mind, without events or Artemis herself being manipulated by M'gann and Zatanna. And I bookmarked that - but unfortunately Samsung's miserable excuse for a backup feature has deleted every single bookmark I had saved to my phone for the last 8 years or so. So. Before I go through every comment room archive since August 2019 to find it. Does anyone else have that bit saved, or know a more efficient way to search Comment Room backlogs?
Karrin Blue
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 11:13:47 pm EDT from 70.188.154.198

Happy birthday, Robby! And thanks for your work on the "Gargoyles" comics!

I'd come across that remark by Brent Spiner's recently as well, but said nothing about it until now; I'd also felt skeptical about it (even if it was coming from one of the voice actors).

On the discussion of the interim between the end of the television series and the start of the comics at "Voices From the Eyrie" - some good thoughts on what subjects would be discussed. However, I'd suggest leaving out the discussion of "Gargoyles" fanfic for Greg Weisman's sake, particularly because of the legal concerns (unless it's a podcast that he's absent from; the only such one so far being the one that discussed "Awakening" as a whole and how it stands up).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 8:07:01 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Robby > Happy birthday! Your work on the Demona book was absolutely gorgeous. There are several pages and panels that are worthy of being posters; the Constantinople splash page on page 19 of issue 2 springs immediately to mind. I can't wait to see your work on the new issues.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 4:19:48 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Someone told me I should stop by here. Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone, even though I haven't been a regular on this forum for years. It's very sweet!

Issue 1 of the new series went through its final approvals and is at the printer, it should be out on time. I'm working on issue 2 right now! It's good stuff, ya'll are going to love it, I think art-wise it's the best the Garg comics have ever been.

(I wanted to return to the book when it launched, but Dynamite had to take care of their in-house talent first. But I'm on it for the long haul now!)
Robby - [robertbevard at gmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 4:13:12 pm EDT from 207.136.97.15

As to Spiner mentioning a new animated Gargoyles season: Yes, I'd been avoiding mentioning this here, since I assume he was either misinformed or misinterpreting something he'd heard.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 4:04:53 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Ed > Excellent post, and I agree with most of your points. A few quick responses:

I'd be interested in hearing Cary Bates talk about TGC, but I somehow doubt he'd have too much insight. The impression I got from his prior Voices from the Eyrie appearances is that his experience on Gargoyles is a pretty distant memory for him. Not that I'm complaining, he's a legend and it was great to get his perspective. But Gargoyles is one of many, many projects he's worked on, and his recollections of the specifics seemed fairly vague. I believe he was the guest who said that rewatching the episodes for the podcast was essentially like watching a new show he had no recollection of writing. I'd love to hear Eric Lewald discuss TGC, given how articulate he's been in his discussions of X-Men over the past decade or so. I think a candid conversation with him would be really fascinating, but I agree with you that asking for such an interview would be inherently unfair. Unless he steps forward and suddenly decides to talk about the show of his own volition (and why would he do that after all these years?), I doubt we'll ever hear from him on the subject.

I think your #1 is (partially) answered by the old Ask Greg FAQ: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq/faq25.htm#2

For your #15, Greg has mentioned two changes from the original Marvel script for "Reunion": https://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=9963
I'd love to know what the original ending was (especially as a big fan of Twilight Zone-style twists), but I have a hunch Greg still won't want to reveal this.

Your #18-20: Based on my own real-time observations, the Dynamite covers and solicitations often (if not always) come out before the script for an issue has been written. This is based on interviews with Greg (particularly on Voices from the Eyrie) where he mentions what issue he is currently writing. He's almost always behind the current solicitation. We know the solicits aren't written by Greg. I'm nearly certain they're written by Nate; he made a social media post a few years back mentioning that he had to write twelve solicitations before lunch (I may be misremembering the exact number and time of day, but that was the gist). He didn't specifically mention Gargoyles, but the blurbs definitely have his tone, and this seems to be within the parameters of his duties on the titles he edits. My hunch is that he writes them based on writer-editor pow-wows he has with Greg, and sometimes misremembers/misinterprets stuff that Greg said about upcoming stories. Of course, there are probably also instances where Greg changes his mind about things once he gets into the nuts and bolts of scripting. I certainly get the impression that, if spoiler-averse Greg had his way, the solicitations would just be a blank text box. I'm reminded of Matt Weiner's embargo letters to critics when screeners were sent out for new seasons of Mad Men, which essentially made it impossible for reviewers to say ANYTHING about the show.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 4:03:11 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

I think it’s literally a rumor, (even says as much in the post) and Brent Spiner talking out of his ass. I genuinely don’t believe it’s worth mentioning.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723]
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 3:51:51 pm EDT from 174.196.52.153

Have you guys seen this?? https://x.com/DTVANews/status/2084741473929400442

New Gargoyles show??
Stan
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 3:36:37 pm EDT from 62.93.167.79

Happy birthday Robby!

Great news about the Robin Hood comic and thanks Craig also for mentioning the Comic Crusaders podcast which is one of the best Greg interviews in a long time with some fascinating reveals.

I'm intrigued that Greg sees the page as a 'unit' for comics but an act for films. Logically, you'd think a scene would be the key unit in a show and definitely you get the sense that scenes are structured to draw the reader forward to what comes next. But I guess the point he's making is that the jump-off point is so much easier when you have to actively turn the page as opposed to passively letting the thing run.

The "biggest story ever" in the ongoing... Given how reluctant Dynamite appears to be to do ongoings I do wonder about this one. My guess is that it's ongoing because Greg pitched hard that this was a story that needed to be told at scale and you can see how giving the series potentially a Sauron-scale villain would help address doubts at Dynamite and, for Disney, the prospect of picking up a lot of threads from the animation was probably persuasive.

It also makes retrospective sense of the decision to commission so many left-field projects - the crossover, even the Demona book - while the main run was left on such an open cliffhanger for going on 2 years. This was their big chance to shake the tree for the fruit. As much as I'd love it to, I kind of assume the ongoing probably won't outlast the Mab arc (which of course could still be dozens of issues and I'm sure there'll be more minis/maxis after so I'm not worried about that).

I'm also - at the risk of appearing greedy - curious about whether we'll ever get a second concurrent comic again. For a few brief glorious months in 2023 we did have two series alongside each other but since then the projects have been more or less consecutive - I guess the FF books overlapped 'Demona' a bit but there were also big gaps before and after.

Three potential reasons I'd guess as to why this is:

1. Sales don't justify two books - not necessarily because they're bad but because the second book cannibalises sales from the main book if people buy fewer variants.

2. The opportunity cost of a second book is much higher - instead of a modest success they could roll the dice on a different Disney property where they might find their next big hit.

3. They wanted to get their ducks in a row on the TPB releases first so people had access to the back catalogue.

Still, I do hope as the ongoing continues that we might get a side-book again. Although for the time being, it's just exciting if the book is monthly and hopefully can maintain a regular release schedule.


Anyway, the big reason for posting --

Congratulations (and grateful thanks) to the Voices team for reaching "Hunter's Moon Part Three"! While it's sad to be through the animated run, it's lovely to know - as we didn't in the 90s - that there's still so much ahead.

I've often ruminated before on Brooklyn's line about "chapter two or three". At first it seemed odd to me because within Brooklyn's life, surely he'd consider the dark ages his chapter 1 - perhaps then he was reflecting on his new life. But as a meta-statement, it's clearly the beginning of chapter (season) 3. However, it now marks the beginning of the comic era and simultaneously Dynamite has framed Clan-Building as Volume Two and so the line has taken on renewed significance.

While I don't have any intrinsic interest in TGC, "The Journey" TV episode is still the last place that you can hear the performances of this incredible cast on a script that is broadly correct to canon so I don't think it can ever be completely removed from the conversation. It would be an interesting project in fact to see if it can be re-edited to be closer to the correct version although of course we'd still be missing a handful of comic-exclusive scenes.

As far as TGC more broadly goes, I think it might be possible to have an interesting conversation with some of the people who worked on it - not least Cary Bates. I think in the days where the Marvel books are being rediscovered there's a greater place for acceptance of non-canon paths as curiosities in their own right, although of course to this day TGC will have far greater reach than the comics because of Disney Plus. However, it's a very difficult one to do and fundamentally unfair - unfair on guests to discuss something that essentially the consensus is was a failure, unfair on Greg Weisman who has to balance his professionalism with his attachment to the show and let's face it, do Greg B and Jennifer want to spend 4 hours of their life watching the back twelve of TGC again? Greater love hath no man...

I am very interested indeed about the post-animation era. Greg B and Jen have a knack for exploring all the details which will be exciting to revisit and while they've generally acted more as hosts than guests, their presence in the community over the decades - especially with the Gatherings - has the potential for some interesting podcasts.

Also of course Greg W hasn't really talked about the comics in anything like the same way he talked about the episodes. Now some questions probably are still difficult to fully address. Either they're narrative questions which flow into future issues and therefore would fall under Greg's ban on spoilers. Or they link to the workings of Disney/Dynamite/SLG which Greg might feel professionally obligated to not discuss fully.

Still, there's a lot of stuff I don't believe I've heard Greg discuss previously, or at least not since we've seen some of this content come to light:

1. The pitching process for season 3 including the co-evolution of the spin-off concepts and season 3 and how far each evolved.

2. What similarities and differences exist between "Seasons 3 and 4" as they came to be and the proposal document for what was ultimately TGC.

3. What aspects of post-season 2 were informed by S2 discussions with Reaves, Paur, Marano, Bates etc. We know Greg tries to avoid wasting things and in this episode he mentioned reusing the catacombs in 'Bad Guys'. It feels plausible that other notions were absorbed, especially given all Gary Sperling's work on 'Bad Guys'. (Incidentally, knowing Greg's approach to reusing everything, I half-expect to see that deleted Michael Reaves scene appear in canon one day. It's such an amazing scene and I think it would still work fantastically well as a flashback in an Elisa/Jason-centred issue, although I guess negotiating with Michael Reaves' estate could end up a bit of a time sink for Dynamite.)

4. The degree to which the story of "The Journey" was/wasn't shaped by serving a dual purpose as a premiere and finale as well as the story by itself.

5. How the period of 1996 to 2006 changed Greg's conception of Gargoyles - the emergence of fandom, the revision of the timeline circa the early 2000s, the occasional examples of "pro-fiction" such "Once Upon A Time, There Were Three Brothers". I believe characters like Shari and Antonia were relatively late additions.

6. Whether (and perhaps which) ideas once for gargoyles were cannibalised into other shows in the intervening years - notably Rain of the Ghosts has a similar sensibility to 'Gargoyles' but most of the storytelling exists in a completely different space (a bit less distinct now we've been introduced to Prospero, I guess).

7. The original conception of Creature Comics and how it evolved and folded into SLG, including some of Greg's creator-owned comic projects such as 'Mecha Nation' and 'Progeny'.

8. The changing approach of standards and practices. TGC was in some respects far more restrictive and yet opens with a fairly naked version of the KKK. SLG leans into it even more by calling it "Clan-Building" and having the odd moment of much more explicit violence and one choice - if archetypally-accurate - use of language.

9. Pivoting from an animation to a comic structure. Even as late as HERE IN MANHATTAN #3, you can kind of see how the stories would transpose into television episodes with a three-act structure (although I found Greg's point interesting that usually Act 1 was bigger than the others so this in itself changes the considerations. It also feels like the SLG run hugs the timeline quite tightly with scenes like Demona retrieving the Atlantean crystal making chronological sense but having no bearing on the wider narrative. In the Dynamite book, the narrative feels more streamlined.

10. The titles including the apparent acrostic message in the "Here in Manhattan" titles, the use of proverbs and quotes starting with "f" for "Better Angels", the 'strangers'/'losers' symmetry in the "Redemption" titles -- my guess is that the first two episodes when it was a pitch were to be called "Strangers" and "Losers" and so the titles were iterated upon as chapter titles. (Side-note, I do sometimes regret that there's not a title for the distinct "episodes" where such things are discernible - "The Rock" is a fairly obvious way of referring to SLG #7-9 but SLG #3-5 is a less elegant way of identifying the events of those issues than a singular title. I mentally think of these four 'episode-like' stories as "Masque", "The Rock", "The Gate" and "Miracle Child" but obviously these don't have any official standing).

11. The reprinting of Clan-Building including discussions had in resurrecting it and things like the "Stories Matter" pages and the discussions that presumably preceded that.

12. Greg's approach to seed-sowing and world-building - Greg B and Jennifer usually have sharp eyes for this kind of thing. There are plenty we already can see already like the introduction of the Chungs but it'll be interesting to see what else emerges in parallel with the new comics. (For example, I'm reasonably convinced that the "poisonous stickpins" line, like the "Dracula" line in "Awakening", has a payoff somewhere in mind - Greg loves his symmetries and sleeping beauty seems all too perfect a storyline for a series about a group of heroes who spent 1000 years sleeping).

13. The experience of trying to do essentially a period piece in the modern day by writing the 90s afresh. Equally, though it's only been glimpsed briefly in (I think) "Underwater" so far, the difficulty of maintaining a sense of the future in 2198 when the world is ~15% closer than when the ideas began to ferment.

14. The process of character designs and the difficulties/benefits of having multiple artists on a single story. We've heard glimpses of this - I believe he already said (though may be misremembering) that Dino's hair was designed as a kind of negative image of Tony's.

15. How the "Reunion" script changed since the 90s version - I somehow doubt Shari and possibly Thailog were in the original version although I guess the core script was probably pretty much untouched.

16. Greg's approach to and thoughts on non-linearity in storytelling. We've heard him talk a lot about his philosophies of time-travel stories but I think his comments on the Rock storyline will be fascinating. I guess Faulkner is probably a specific influence but there are so many examples of non-linear storytelling and yet I don't think I've seen anything even remotely like "The Rock", which feels uniquely suited to comics. (One thing I've always appreciated with Greg is that he almost always avoids the dreadful modern trope of starting with the exciting bit and then flashing back which I often think of as doing a trailer for the first chapter. Ironically "Awakening" is a counter-example of this but there is a clear reason for why a modern-day scene was necessary to set audience expectations. Note I'm not talking about stories with multiple timelines that resonate thematically - 'Better Call Saul' and the 'Firefly' episode "Out of Gas" both show how this can be done very effectively - but rather books/films/shows where the only real use of non-linearity is to zhuzh up an otherwise-dry opening.)

17. The process of "cannibalising" the spin-offs into the final stories. In-universe, we know almost nothing about the activities of the Redemption Squad and King Arthur during 1997 but we can assume both were busy. This might be difficult to talk about at this stage since I suspect the ongoing with allow much more flexibility to incorporate stories from the extremities of the universe, especially with the presence of a true global threat.

18. The covers process, especially Greg Guler's, and the extent to which these are designed ahead of the writing of the issues and whether the issues as written ever diverge.

19. The role of the various editors/publishers and the link people at Disney.

20. Press releases and the problem of containing spoilers. I'd still love to know how the blurb for Here in Manhattan managed to spoil the twist to a sequel arc three years later.

21. Distribution and production - obviously Diamond has had a pretty big effect on the landscape in recent years and there are several issues which have had problems, memorably SLG #6.

22. It's a small point but the evolution of the spin-off branding. Bad Guys had a change in font but also it's very obvious in the Dynamite books that 'Gargoyles' is the brand and the spin-off title is just an afterthought which I suspect is more commercially savvy although perhaps a harder one for 'Bad Guys' given it's so far from the regular cast.

23. The various... not really cameos but... Gargoyle-universe alter-egos incorporated into the story, not least Erin and Benny.

24. How the end to "Clan Building" was/wasn't shaped by the book being cancelled at the time of publication and how the next, Manhattan, arc differed from "Here in Manhattan". "Phoenix" feels like it hits the fast forward in a big way at the end to fit in Goliath's arc but perhaps this was always the plan.

Plus many more things in due course as we get to the Dynamite run. I think those Demona podcasts are going to be quite a ride given the hosts' love of the character plus hopefully Frank Paur returning.


Jurgan: Interesting post. I think a general interregnum video would be good. I am kind of intrigued about TGS since it's clear that by luck or judgment there are a few symmetries I didn't expect with Greg's plans as revealed (I never realised making 'Pendragon' flashback-based as from Greg) but in general I don't know I see the value. I think TGS is quite fun for its ambition and maybe one day it would even be interesting to read it through if it's available. There were definitely some amazing writers on it - I always love Todd's writing, Anna Hansen and Nicodemus did some absolute crackers as I recall and obviously there were people like Christine Morgan who went onto other things, plus I think Jennifer and certainly Greg B were involved. I doubt anybody can give an overview of it and it feels like it would be quite a niche interest now but it certainly was a major hub of activity - for a few years, the TGS CR was far more lively than this one.

With the Quarrymen, I do have a theory about them but this is a long post so I'll get to it another day.
Ed
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 2:48:09 pm EDT from 217.142.21.196

Algae and Craig> Ha!

Yes, Happy Birthday, Robby Bevard! Not sure he gets as much praise as he deserves. His work has been and continues to be exceptional and appreciated. I hope he has a wonderful day and I'm looking forward to seeing his latest work next week.
Matt
"The eggs in the rookery will soon hatch. They will need guidance..." - Goliath, "Awakening Part Two"
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 2:03:12 pm EDT from 76.212.64.82

Algae > [SPOILER] Ha. “Head” canon. [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 12:51:22 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

TODD> WILD SPECULATION: [SPOILER] I remember coming across Cú Chulainn's "beheading story" back in the day and making the exact same connection. To the point I headcanon the 'Cu Roi' of that story was indeed an earlier manifestation of the Green Knight. [/SPOILER]

Also, hi again, everybody!
Algae
The Way that abides forever is not a way that can be trodden. The Name that abides forever is not a name that can be uttered.
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 12:32:48 pm EDT from 194.125.71.88

Happy birthday, Robby Bevard! Loved that you returned to the Gargoyles comic team last year and looking forward to be amazed again (hopefully) next week!

Todd: [SPOILER] I too, would love to see more of the Green Knight's challengers pop up. [/SPOILER]

As for the Quarrymen, I guess we'll just have to see how New York City will react after Demona's latest scheme had every human in the vicinity publicly in her thrall. The largely good folk of 601 Amsterdam Avenue might not be a proper census of opinion (although the tenant in 1B did call the cops on Broadway).
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Wed, Aug 5, 2026 10:44:45 am EDT from 72.249.221.26

Sorry for the double post, but:

PHOENICIAN - Thanks for that post about the Ray Bradbury story. I haven't read it, but I looked up about it online and could tell why you chose that particular date to mention the story. (I also read that later republishings moved the original date further into the future, to around 2050.)

One other thought I've had for the upcoming comic. [SPOILER] If we get in a lot of the heroes from the Avalon World Tour, as people here have suggested, and if the Green Knight is indeed siding with Mab, I'd rather like to see a confrontation between him and Rory/Cuchulain at some point. I've mentioned here a legend about Cuchulain participating in a "beheading game" that reads like a forerunner of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight", which would make an encounter between them a fun way of acknowledging that background to the tale. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Aug 4, 2026 8:22:58 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

JURGAN - Your suggestion of dedicating a podcast to an overview of the events in "Gargoyles" fandom between the end of the television series and the start of the Slave Labor Graphics comics (especially such matters as how Station 8 and "Ask Greg" got started) sounds like a good idea to me.

CRAIG - Good thoughts on "Generations". I've mentioned this before, but one major weakness of that episode (besides the ones you mentioned) has struck me as being that, while having Demona engage in her familiar treacherous schemes, it almost sides with her (without, I suspect, the production team intending it) in the depiction of humanity. All the humans in the episode (the "Assassin", the Quarrymen, the woman pretending to be attacked by a biker gang as bait for a trap) are thoroughly anti-gargoyle (in particular, it's another case of the Quarrymen's scheme only making sense if they know that the gargoyles are protectors rather than monsters, removing the one possible argument in their defense) and even straightforwardly corrupt and unprincipled (with the "Assassin" ready to sell Demona out); there's not even a hint of any humans like Elisa capable of reaching out to the gargoyles and accepting them. All of which might lead the audience (especially if it was the only episode of "Gargoyles" they'd seen) to wonder whether maybe Demona, for all her villainy, has a point and Goliath and his clan are hopelessly blind to humanity's true nature. (Of course, I suspect it was simply a case of "Not enough room in the episode for humans who'd accepted gargoyles" and that the production team, especially given the rush job that the "Goliath Chronicles" apparently were, never considered that possible interpretation.)

I'll agree that the Quarrymen in the Halloween Special do come across as having almost turned into just another gang. I've wondered whether one problem with giving them more depth is the challenge of doing so without repeating the Vinnie part of "The Journey".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Aug 4, 2026 8:18:01 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Masterdramon: I too loved and appreciated reading those historical details. Definitely some food for thought.

Off Topic, but for Ray Bradbury fans out there, today would be a particularly fitting day to read the short story, "There Will Come Soft Rains".
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Tue, Aug 4, 2026 7:46:34 pm EDT from 72.249.221.26

Whoops, last comment was mine.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Aug 4, 2026 7:21:59 pm EDT from 12.74.53.119

Jurgan > I would also include “Generations” (the Demona episode) in the category of “just plain bad” episodes. The primary villain doesn’t get a personality, a backstory, a motivation, or even a name (he’s just credited as “Assassin”). That’s about as lazy as writing can get. Plus, the whole convoluted collaboration between Assassin, Demona, and the Quarrymen makes absolutely no sense.
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Aug 4, 2026 7:20:29 pm EDT from 12.74.53.119

While I wouldn't expect or, frankly, want Greg, Greg, and Jen to do an episode-by-episode watch of TGC, I would be interested in some retrospective on what I think of as "the first interregnum," the period between the airing of Hunter's Moon and the release of the SLG comics. Of course, there should be at least a summary of why Greg left the show, but there was plenty more that can be covered. Talk to Gorebash about setting up S8 and making contact with Greg Weisman. Ask Greg how he decided to start answering questions on, well, Ask Greg. What was his motivation to start revealing his plans? I know he sort of regrets the amount of spoiler he gave, and yet I don't think the fandom survives without them. In the late 90's, Gargoyles was a show from my childhood that I fondly remembered, but I was content with it having a satisfying ending with Hunter's Moon and a mediocre continuation on ABC. It wasn't until I found s8 and discovered how detailed Greg's plans were that I got invested in the idea of it coming back. There are a lot of other things y'all could discuss. Invite Mae Li to talk about starting The Gathering. Do a brief retrospective on fan projects like The Gargoyles Saga (TGS) or those themed fanfic collections that were sold at the cons. Greg can talk about the Bad Guys leica reel and other aborted spin-off plans. Discuss the process of making connection with SLG in the first place and how that deal came about. There's a lot of ground to be covered and it would be nice to have an aural record of it.

Regarding TGC, "To Serve Man" or whatever it was called is the only episode I'd describe as just plain bad. The Egon Pax nonsense is the worst, but that aside it's just a really generic story overall. I had an idea a while back that Angels in the Night could be reinterpreted to make Xanatos a villain all along. He enacts an elaborate scheme to fake the gargoyles' deaths without telling them in advance. This could have been a way to trick them into leaving New York and getting out of his way- they wouldn't normally abandon their protectorate, but if faking their deaths is a fait accompli, maybe they'd be more willing to go along with it.

"I've mentioned the depiction of Castaway and the Quarrymen being one of the major failings of the Goliath Chronicles for my own part - especially the part about how a lot of their anti-gargoyle schemes would only make sense if they knew the truth about the gargoyles, in which case, why are they so bent on wiping them out? I seriously doubt that the Lewalds would have had the Friends of Humanity in the FOX "X-Men" series coming up with similar anti-mutant schemes."

I agree with this to an extent, yet I'm not sure the version we eventually got in canon has been much better. They don't have the mischaracterization you describe, but what have they actually done? Not much, really. After The Journey, they weren't much more than a nuisance. They made an appearance in the Halloween Special, but instead of an all-too-real depiction of hate groups, they were more or less the same simple-minded thugs as in TGC. I was also disappointed back when I read TGS that the Quarrymen were eliminated so quickly, but the same thing seems to have happened in canon. I don't know, I'm sure Greg has some plans for them in the future, and I wouldn't want them to become the primary antagonists, but I still feel like they haven't lived up to their potential.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 4, 2026 6:09:16 pm EDT from 73.217.144.141

Masterdramon > [SPOILER] It appeared to me that Greg was just picking random dates off the timeline as he scrolled through, to give a couple of examples. So I’m not sure that his mention of 1886 Hawaii means it’s something we’ll necessarily be seeing imminently. But the historical background you provided is genuinely fascinating, thanks for that! [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Tue, Aug 4, 2026 3:33:14 am EDT from 69.118.30.106

Indeed, as I've mentioned before, I wonder whether Eric Lewald and the others even remember why they made the decisions they did on "The Goliath Chronicles"; I seriously doubt that they felt a level of passion or love towards it compared with that of Greg Weisman and the rest towards the original "Gargoyles" in its Disney Afternoon version. So, although I'm certainly curious about why they took the approaches towards it that they did, I doubt we'll ever get the answers to those questions.

And, thanks, Masterdramon, for that very informative piece about [SPOILER] Hawaii in the late 19th century [/SPOILER]. One more example of how "Gargoyles" leads so much into real history.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 11:13:00 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

I can't really see any value in the Voices crew covering TGC beyond a basic overview of the differences between "The Journey" episode and the first 2 issues of the SLG comic, which I expect will be part of the next 'cast. Greg, Greg, and Jennifer wouldn't enjoy it, and while it would certainly be interesting if they could bring on Eric Lewald or Scott Thomas to explain details of the production, I can't imagine why they would want to. What would be the benefit to them to come on a podcast and talk about work they likely weren't especially passionate about, and which they must know is despised by a large portion of the fanbase? Voices has succeeded up to this point by generally being fair, positive, and genial, and I don't see any point in changing that just to throw some cheap shots at the discussed-to-death flaws in thirty-year-old, non-canon material.

Now, switching gears to something that (for obvious reasons) perked up my personal attention: the question from last week on the timeline entry Greg W. teased as occurring in [SPOILER] 1886 Hawai'i. There are a few possibilities that spring to mind from my high school history classes and a bit of quick research:

- By 1886, Hawai'i was a constitutional monarchy with an elected King as the executive and a directly elected House of Representatives as its legislature. The 1886 House election was particularly notable as it continued the domination of the National Party (aligned with King Kalakaua and his hand-picked Prime Minister Walter M. Gibson) and a wipeout of the Independent Party (aligned with the so-called "Hawaiian League," representing the interests of white plantation owners). This defeat would lead directly to the latter banding together a year later in an armed coup, storming the Palace, and forcing Kalakaua at gunpoint to sign a new constitution. This thus-named "Bayonet Constitution" substantially weakened the powers of the King, dismissed his existing cabinet (including Gibson), and empowered white foreigners while simultaneously denying suffrage to those of Asian descent. 9 years later, this would be followed up by the Hawaiian League and their allies forcibly overthrowing Kalakaua's successor, Queen Lili'uokalani, and petitioning for the islands to be annexed as a territory by the United States.

- Kalakau's 50th birthday celebration is another possibility. This involved an extravagant ball at Iolani Palace, most notable for the palace grounds getting decked out with then-state-of-the-art electric lights - 5 years before they would be installed at the White House. Kalakaua had traveled to the International Exposition of Electricity in Paris in 1891 and met Thomas Edison, and was a major proponent of establishing the Kingdom of Hawai'i as a hub for the cutting-edge technology of the era.

- The Immigration Convention of 1886 is probably the most notable piece of policy passed that year. It was an international agreement struck between Hawai'i and the Empire of Japan. The aforementioned white-owned plantations were dependent on immigrant labor, many of whom came from Japan during its concurrent Meiji Era. The Emperor sent an investigator, Commissioner Katsunosuke Inouye, to examine the plantations; his report documented numerous abuses and human rights issues for the Japanese laborers. The Convention established that Japanese immigrant workers were wards of the Hawaiian government and provided for direct oversight of conditions in the plantations. Of course, as established above, this agreement would largely only have teeth for about a year...as the white plantation owners' political power became increasingly ascendant in the coming decade.

All of these are events I could see playing into a flashback or a "TimeDancer" story, though the electricization of Iolani Palace is probably the most likely - the rest, while dominoes were set up in 1886, wouldn't see them fall until a little later.

Fascinating period of history, regardless. One way or another, I'm really interested to see if Greg's mention of it means we may get a story set in Hawai'i sooner rather than later. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them until they believe. No matter how many times it takes." - Madoka Kaname
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 10:45:35 pm EDT from 75.85.65.128

CRAIG - Thanks; I'd forgotten that one.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 9:37:48 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Todd > I also counted the Free Comic Book Day Demona #0 issue.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 9:36:29 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

TGC definitely reeks of sleep-deprived people on a deadline saying, “This is good enough, I guess.”
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 9:33:41 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Oh, and I'd been counting the comics issues alongside the episodes of the Disney Afternoon version of "Gargoyles", to see how many episodes in total (if you view an issue as an episode) "Gargoyles" has had at present (before the new series comes out). We have 65 Disney Afternoon episodes, of course. Then twelve episodes of "Clan-Building" (77), twelve of "Here in Manhattan" (89), six of "Bad Guys" (95), six of "Dark Ages" (101), five of "Gargoyles Quest" (106), five of "Demona" (111), plus the Halloween and the two Holiday Specials (114). (And then, counting that up, that would make the upcoming "Gargoyles" @1 the 50th comics issue rather than the 51st. Did I miss one?)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 9:33:36 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

CRAIG - Good point on those story problems in the Goliath Chronicles - a lot of them would be problems even in a new series with its own cast. The example you cited, for example: I've mentioned this before, but I've thought that it would have made better sense for the Illuminati to target that statesman with a human assassin masquerading as a member of one of the factions in his country rather than with a gargoyle with no known links to those factions. (Would war have erupted in Europe in 1914 if Archduke Franz Ferdinand had been mauled to death by a mountain lion or bear, rather than killed by a Serb assassin?) Unless the idea was that the peace process he was presiding over was so delicate, and he was the only one who was putting the good of the country ahead of their own aspirations, that his mere removal would be enough to make the peace process fall apart. (Which does inspire a potential darker ending for this episode, where a few Illuminati members present at the scene start talking about what a shock being attacked by a gargoyle must have been for the man, especially since he had an "elderly and frail" look, resulting in him being forced to step down and the war immediately resuming.)

I've mentioned the depiction of Castaway and the Quarrymen being one of the major failings of the Goliath Chronicles for my own part - especially the part about how a lot of their anti-gargoyle schemes would only make sense if they knew the truth about the gargoyles, in which case, why are they so bent on wiping them out? I seriously doubt that the Lewalds would have had the Friends of Humanity in the FOX "X-Men" series coming up with similar anti-mutant schemes.

I still suspect that those plotholes were a case of very little time to work on the series - so little time that it was a case of "Okay, this story has a lot of obvious problems, but we'll miss our deadline in if we try to come up with something better."
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 9:18:41 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Matthew > The crew of The Goliath Chronicles were definitely set up for failure in terms of scheduling and budget. Greg has discussed this as one of the main reasons he left the series, as he felt he would be presiding over the demise of the show. That said, there were definitely some baffling creative choices made. Even giving the crew grace for the fact that they didn't have time to familiarize themselves with the 65 existing episodes, a lot of choices are just objectively bad storytelling/writing on their own merits (EGON PAX!). The Fox/Saban X-Men series that Thomas, Lewald, Edens, etc. worked on also has some pretty egregiously bad dialogue writing and production values, but is generally beloved because it was extremely faithful to the comics, and used serialized storytelling far before that was the norm in TV animation (even before Gargoyles).
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 8:15:25 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Craig> Good point. It's easy to forget that showrunners, even for shows you don't like, are still subject to the decisions made from others higher up on the ladder.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 5:28:11 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

Matthew > It's a potentially funny idea, but probably too mean-spirited. Greg Weisman in particular would probably not want to trash the work of his colleagues (I recall that he was friends with the Lewalds and attended their wedding).
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 5:21:55 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

5th

There was talk last week of the folks on Voices covering the Goliath Chronicles first episode because that was the only one Greg really worked on. It'd be a tough watch but honestly I'd love to see them riff on the rest of TGC MST 3000 style.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 5:03:24 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

Oh. Fourth. D’oh.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 1:31:11 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

morrand > I have a good feeling that the date will stick (knocks wood). Dynamite did a great job getting the Darkwing crossover out, with four issues in under two months.

I can't recall if this has been mentioned before, but the upcoming issue will be the 51st canon comic book story (counting all the SLG and Dynamite issues except the crossovers). I never would have imagined that we'd get this much material all these years later. Very exciting. And Greg has said that not only is the new series an ongoing, but the opening arc is the biggest story he's ever told in the Gargoyles universe. I can't wait!
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 1:28:17 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Third!

The date hasn't moved yet; what do we think? They're actually going to hit the announced publication date? Fingers crossed.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 12:50:27 pm EDT from 108.69.72.60

Second! Nine days until Gargoyles #1!!!
Matt
"The eggs in the rookery will soon hatch. They will need guidance..." - Goliath, "Awakening Part Two"
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 10:53:48 am EDT from 76.212.64.82

First.

CRAIG - [SPOILER] The part about getting the time zones straight for when gargoyles would be asleep and dreaming reminds me of a bit of the discussion about the time zone difference between New York and Guatemala in the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on "The Green".

It struck me that the Avalon clan would be a particular challenge for that project, for obvious reasons - and the source of those dreams means that the Avalon clan would likely get brought up during this. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 3, 2026 9:08:11 am EDT from 68.99.93.213