Matthew > That's a great example of thematically similar material to the Marvel comics being handled far more tastefully in canon. As I said at the time, that's one of my favorite issues of the entire SLG / Dynamite runs. Frank and Robby really outdid themselves.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Apr 15, 2026 2:43:41 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

On the subject of art choices;
I was looking through some of comments in the archives and I came across the initial thoughts on Demona #3.One thing I had forgotten was the scene when Raynard's stone grotesques barge into the tavern and take Nicolette. As others have pointed out, it's a bit racier than a lot of other things Greg's done and while it's never too explicit, the message is certainly clear. This young woman has been violated not by the stone monsters but by Raynard's dark desires that he kept bottled up.

There's another great panel near the end where she's holding the now orphaned Martin Pecheur. Despite everything that's happened to her, she still giving the young boy the comfort he needs. And yet, it also looks like she's holding onto him because she's in desperate need of comfort as well.

It was mentioned that there was a lot of misogyny in comics during the 90's and I think the recent Demona series does a great job showing a traumatic event that a young woman went through without turning into something gross.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight
posted @ Wed, Apr 15, 2026 2:14:33 am EDT from 184.23.35.150

It does put the writers in a rather unenviable position, having to try to be faithful to material that they haven't even seen. That doesn't excuse the myriad of other questionable writing (and art) choices, of course.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Apr 14, 2026 4:35:57 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

It was speculation on my part but I felt pretty secure in that assumption. The Trio, and more specifically Broadway's, lack of a reaction to someone getting shot down told me everything I needed to know.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight
posted @ Tue, Apr 14, 2026 4:20:44 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

Matthew had speculated that the writers/editors of the Marvel Gargoyles comic were not given tapes of the show (he specifically mentioned "Deadly Force"). Out of curiosity, I read back through the letter columns to see if there was any information to be gleaned. In issue 6 (released 5/30/1995), editor Hildy Mesnik says that she has read the "story synopses" for the second season. And in issue 11, she says that she and writer Mort Todd get together most afternoons to watch the show. So, it seems likely that Matthew is right: Mesnik was sent synopses of the episodes (unclear if these were full outlines or just short summaries typed up by an intern), and she and Mort Todd seemingly watched the show in real-time with the rest of us. She also mentions Greg Weisman by name in the letter column of issue 11, saying that she works closely with him.

This is consistent with what one writer recently said in one of the Fantagraphics 'Disney Afternoon Adventures' volumes. When he wrote his Darkwing Duck stories for 'Disney Adventures' digest, the show hadn't debuted and he was only working off of the show bible and a VHS with a couple of random episodes on it. He chose to invent his own original villains for his stories, since he had never seen any of the regular series villains in action and didn't feel comfortable trying to imagine their "voices."

A couple of other tidbits from the letters pages: I had previously mentioned that they printed one negative letter and claimed it was the only one they'd gotten. They did actually publish one more negative letter later on (well, one-and-a-half: another letter was mostly positive but criticized the dialogue). And in one issue, a reader praises the choice to make Elisa a Hispanic character, and the editor appears to agree with the letter, making it seem likely that Mesnik didn't know Elisa's ethnicity (which is odd considering that both her parents had been seen by that point).
Craig
posted @ Tue, Apr 14, 2026 3:55:24 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

MATTHEW - A good analysis on Goliath and his development.

Incidentally, I've wondered whether [SPOILER] Darkwing Duck's accusing Goliath of imitating his catch-phrases was intended as an echo of those concerns about "Gargoyles" imitating "Batman: TAS", given that Darkwing does come across as, in part, a take-off of Batman [/SPOILER].
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 13, 2026 8:14:54 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Todd> One thing I really appreciate about Gargoyles is that while their protective traits are inherent, it's also not the whole of who they are and they have plenty of depth and variety to their roles as guardians. Goliath of course is fairly melancholic through most of the series because of the Massacre, the loss of their home and the loss of his rookery brother. But as I mentioned last week, the loss of Coldstone just inspired him and the others to safeguard Manhattan.

And another neat detail, even if it isn't focused on too much, is that his attitude does get better through the series as the clan makes new friends and allies. And the World Tour Arc gave him hope for the future of their kind.

Meanwhile animated Batman just got more and more antisocial that by the time the DCAU ended none of his allies and colleagues wanted anything to do with him.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight
posted @ Mon, Apr 13, 2026 7:10:31 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

Good to see you back, Matt.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Apr 13, 2026 4:59:21 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Third!

I'm back after a brief hiatus dealing with life.

I'll really quickly add that I've been reading through the old Marvel comics for the first time in decades and it has been... interesting. I echo most of the thoughts you all have been saying over the last couple of weeks.
Matt
"Okay... This is getting old." - Brooklyn, 1995
posted @ Mon, Apr 13, 2026 2:22:47 pm EDT from 69.229.197.48

Second!

Todd > I think entertainment executives are typically looking to greenlight a project that's similar to something that's already successful, as long as it's not SO similar that it could lead to a lawsuit (hence Greg having to make that list to reassure them). I believe Greg has admitted that the massive success of B:TAS was likely a major factor in Eisner and company giving a chance to Gargoyles. Tad Stones has said something similar about Darkwing Duck: because Tiny Toon Adventures had become a huge hit, his bosses were suddenly more open to letting that Warner Bros.-style zany humor into a Disney show.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Apr 13, 2026 2:00:25 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Great discussion thread! I've been following this topic for a while and the insights shared here are really valuable. Looking forward to more updates from the community.
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posted @ Mon, Apr 13, 2026 11:16:39 am EDT from 182.229.69.74

First.

MATTHEW - Your remark about one of the purposes of "Gargoyles" being so that "Disney could have their own Batman: The Animated Series" amused me, given the concerns by the production team that "Gargoyles" not be viewed as a "Batman: TAS" imitation (complete with Greg Weisman writing that piece on all the major differences - some of which were very deep, such as Goliath's drive to protect Manhattan being fueled by his beliefs in gargoyle purpose rather than the trauma of the Wyvern Massacre, others (such as the gargoyles not having a butler) not so much (by his own admission).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 13, 2026 9:07:48 am EDT from 68.99.93.213