It struck me that there'd be one particular storytelling appeal for having Tom end up in the middle of Mowbray's rebellion during his 1095 excursion to the outside world; that was where the slaughter of Angelika's clan had taken place two years before, making it still fresh in people's memories. It would have been an effective way of warning him that the world outside of Avalon was still not safe for gargoyles.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 7:27:18 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Todd > I think the concept of reboots / reinterpretations is just an accepted part of being a DC Comics fan. The Golden Age comics of the '40s didn't really have much serialization, other than the same villains coming back over and over; they were largely standalone stories. Then, DC soft-rebooted its characters in 1956, and introduced the concept of parallel universes in 1961. So, by the time true serialization even became part of the storytelling in the late '60s and the '70s, it was already accepted that there was no singular continuity. It's sort of similar to the Arthurian legends in that regard; everyone has their favored interpretations, but there is no definitive version. So, I think most DC fans are open-minded about new animated interpretations.

I'd say that Disney comics are somewhat similar. Right out of the gate, you have the comics' relationship (or lack thereof) to the original animated source material. The Carl Barks versions of Donald and the nephews don't much resemble the original characters from the cartoon shorts (even though Barks worked on a lot of those cartoons). Ditto the Floyd Gottfredson Mickey Mouse. Barks himself was famously dismissive of continuity, and then you have the countless comics published around the world which present myriad different interpretations of Scrooge's backstory, Magica's motivations, etc. Don Rosa was arguably the first--certainly the most prominent--to try to tame the Duck world into a tight, well-constructed continuity based on the Barks stories. But the general philosophy of Disney comics is that individual creators will pick and choose what established "facts" they want to use or disregard, no doubt making the changes in the '87 and '17 versions of DuckTales more palatable. Ironically, I've found that in my experience, old-school fans are fairly accepting of DuckTales '17, whereas it's the newer fans who are often dismissive of anything besides the reboot.

Unlike the DC and Disney comics, Gargoyles was continuity-focused from the get-go; serialization is something that was always inherent to what made the show special. Speaking for myself, one of the major reasons I fell in love with the show is that ALL the characters, even the minor ones, change and evolve. Watching the continuing evolution of those through-lines is a major part of why I remain interested. Seeing new versions of the characters who have different experiences, or don't feel consistent with what has come before, is simply not that exciting to me (this is perhaps a major reason the crossovers don't overly appeal to me, since they're not "real").

On an unrelated note, I've noticed an "AskGregBot" replying to a few threads on the Gargoyles subreddit. The replies generally seem to be accurate and well-sourced (either to Ask Greg or GargWiki). Was this bot created by the folks behind Ask Greg and the wiki?
Craig
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 2:02:23 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Hey everybody!

I'm about to start my work week but wanted to hop on for a moment. Happy belated birthday Matt and congratulations to Kieth David, that's totally awesome! :D He definitely deserves the spotlight for all the joy he's brought to the table over the years.

I've been reading through and trying to catch up. I am not too-familiar with this Nieli individual or their work, but the mention of extra digits and something feeling off about the art makes me a bit worried they could be using AI to render images for their idea. I am a but confused about why Greg would not be involved if there are talks of a continuation also as it is his work. It sounds like someone is trying to create a grim dark "Batman: the killing joke"-esque version of the gargoyles following only the show as context if I'm being honest and I don't really see that working out well. It would be great to have a new show, I think, but not one like that and not wothout Greg for sure. May I ask about the reddit page and what's going on there?

I'll try and catch up more but have to run for now. I'm almost finished with my CEU's (Continuing Education Units/classes) for my national Pharmacy technician license and it sounds like the Board of Nursing approves of this as working in healthcare so it's looking like I can keep my assistant nurse's license going! :) Hope everyone has a great week!
Sleeplesssongbird - [Opportunistic dot Cat at Gmail dot com]
-Cat.
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 1:31:45 pm EDT from 45.248.78.227

Todd> Interesting. Makes me wonder if 1195 was the only visit where Tom encountered Demona. I would say that it probably was given his vague familiarity with her in "Avalon". He seemed to recognize her a bit in Demona #4.

Another thought, I wonder if he journeyed out alone in 1095 or if the Magus joined him. He was only 13 years old for that trip. Still, a medieval 13 year old with Tom's experience was probably pretty independent and capable. I like to think that he came back from that trip determined to forge a sword for himself before heading out again.

Also, I forgot to comment on Ed's thought about the "what if?" of Demona, Angelika, and Magni returning to Avalon with Tom. Certainly an interesting thought. I think Magni and Angelika would've been happy to live their lives as members of the Avalon Clan and they would've been a great boon to raising the hatchlings. And I think they would've eagerly joined Tom on later trips. As for Demona, I don't know. On the one hand, she certainly has shown a tendency to wander and not linger and an ambition greater than a quiet, peaceful life can bring. And she also seems to bring trouble to any clan she visits, and yet... her time with the Ishimura Clan makes me question all of that. Perhaps she could've settled down on Avalon. Hard to say, but it was not to be anyway. But her years spent in Ishimura are certainly of extreme interest to me, I will say.
Matt
"If he's in Brooklyn, then who's in you?" "Wouldn't you like to know...?" - Othello/Broadway and Puck/Coldstone, "Possession"
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 12:06:03 pm EDT from 69.229.197.48

Sorry for the double post, but"

MATT - Thank you for your thoughts on Tom's travels in the outside world. I looked up the year 1095, incidentally, and one thing I learned about it was that in actual history, Robert de Mowbray (whom we met in "Gargoyles" #1) wound up getting in trouble himself, when he quarreled with the King of England (William Rufus, who got a mention in "Demona" #1 himself), rebelled against him, only to be captured (after which the King threatened to have his eyes put out unless his followers - who included Arkil Morel - surrendered, and then had him imprisoned in Windsor Castle). I don't know if Tom got involved in those events or witnessed them, of course, but thought it was worth sharing.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 9:19:49 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

Thanks for your comments, Matthew. One thing that struck me after my post last evening was that in the example I gave, both the DCAU and "Young Justice" were based on a common source - DC Comics - making them more akin to siblings, both adapting their original in different ways. A "Gargoyles" reboot would be different; the original property would be the 1990's "Gargoyles" series being rebooted. (One case of a reboot I can think of that would be somewhere in the middle would be the 2017 "DuckTales", which was partly based on the original "DuckTales" that it rebooted, but used a lot of elements from the Carl Barks comics that the original "DuckTales" was based on (plus Don Rosa's comics, which were based on and a very effective continuation of Barks' work).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 9:12:33 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Ed. Tom's inclusion and his interactions with Modi and Demona in particular are big highlights of the story for me. His mission to determine if the world is safe for gargoyles is clear, but I wonder what he made of this adventure. On the one hand, he has found gargoyles still alive and not even in hiding, but on the other Modi tells him that he sleeps in a metal box and the world is dangerous for his kind. Over the centuries I wonder if he encounters gargoyles less and less until he assumes they have gone extinct in the outside world. It definitly doesn't seem like he encountered any of the clans that persisted into the modern day both because Angela doesn't seem aware of gargoyles existing anywhere else and all of the Avalon crew remaining adament that they have no where else to go.

Side note: In "Avalon", Tom tells Goliath that he returned every 100 years to see if he had awakened, but this appears to be a secondary goal. The main reason he returned was to see if the world was safe for The Eggs. From Greg's canon in training notes, when Tom visits Wyvern in 1995, he seems surprised to find the Castle gone and that the gargoyles may have awakened.

Another note: I'd be very amused if every time Tom visited the real world he ended up behind bars one way or another. We know he was put into a cell in 1995 and in 1195. And he laments in 1195 that he gets himself "in these messes every single time" which makes me wonder what happened in 1095. Anyway, we'll see.

When #4 dropped last year, I went ahead and crunched the numbers to determine Tom's approximate age during each of his trips into the real world. Here is that data for those who are interested:

995 - 9 years old
1095 - 13 years old
1195 - 17 years old
1295 - 21 years old
1395 - 25 years old
1495 - 29 years old
1595 - 34 years old
1695 - 38 years old
1795 - 42 years old
1895 - 46 years old
1995 - 50 years old

This assumes of course that none of his stays in the real world were extended. That could change the math a bit. Greg once remarked that his age has caught up to Katherine's a bit due to his time in the real world, so who knows.
Matt
"If he's in Brooklyn, then who's in you?" "Wouldn't you like to know...?" - Othello/Broadway and Puck/Coldstone, "Possession"
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 9:10:46 am EDT from 69.229.197.48

Todd> The timing in Gargoyles was one part of why it worked when it did. The thousand years doesn't just work in demonstrating the large time gap and fish-out-of-water nature of the leads but just in a narrative way too. That's why trying to reboot it and set in the modern day doesn't fit so well; "Frozen in stone for a thousand and 30+ years" just comes off as a little awkward. Plus, they already had a pretty nuanced "don't believe everything you see on tv" episode early on. Can you imagine having to tackle that same sort of thing in today's internet age?

As for the Young Justice/DCAU comparison, there's a lot to unpack. One thing to consider was timing, Batman: The Animated Series came right on the heels of Burton's own blockbusters and had the benefit of being treated better than the Schumacher films. That goodwill extended far into the other projects of The New Batman Adventures, Superman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Static Shock and finally Justice League. But what's been especially clear is that the DCAU heavily favored Batman and most of the cast of the shows that came after were built around how they compared to him, often times to their detriment.

Both the DCAU and Young Justice were helmed by veterans in the comics industry and both dipped their toes into the vast landscape of DC comics: the street level, the fantastical, the supernatural, and the cosmic. But what sets the two apart is that in the DCAU, Batman was the beginning and end of all things superhero, because that's where the showrunners got their start and was ultimately what they were most comfortable with. Young Justice made it clear in the first season that the Justice League or "The Big Three" weren't the beginning of superheroes nor are is one person the most important part of the universe's setting.

Any DC property, especially animated media, gets compared to the DCAU all the time. And because the DCAU was what so many people grew up with they hold it as the gold standard.

So to answer your question, any property can get a reboot. But not every property will be given a fair shake because of what came before.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Tue, Jun 9, 2026 2:47:25 am EDT from 184.23.35.150

Should be "same genre" rather than "same drama". I really, really need to proofread my posts before I submit them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 8, 2026 9:37:09 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

ED - Thanks for your thoughts on "Demona" #4. (I still remember being surprised at seeing Tom show up - followed by "Of course, the year ended in the "95" digits. I'd been so focused on finding out what was happening in Constantinople in 1195 in actual history that I'd forgotten about the significance of those two digits on the "Gargoyles" timeline. Though my research into Byzantine history for that period got me acquainted with the scheming and intrigue going on that year in advance - if you haven't read up on that part of it, let's just say that Shahrizad's warning to the Emperor came too late.)

On your thoughts on the proposed revival: I don't think that "Gargoyles" is that well-designed for continuity reboots myself. The more I've thought about it, the more I think that the best way of continuing it would be via the "Dynamite" comics and Greg Weisman's stories, answering the questions of what happened next to the characters (or what happened in the background of their world). The dramatis personae of a hypothetical reboot wouldn't be the ones we'd met in the original "Gargoyles"; it'd make better sense, I think, to come up with an entirely new animated adventure-drama series set in the same drama, but using a different concept entirely.

(Which leads to the question of what a property needs to go through to make such reboots acceptable. I don't think too many people in the audience for "Young Justice" were upset about it being in a different continuity than the DCAU; what is the difference there?)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 8, 2026 8:59:27 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Other pitches: It looked fine for a reinterpretation of the characters and might have made a decently entertaining show in its own right if you like that sort of thing. My problem isn't that the concept is clearly embryonic or that the art has a fresh twist or even that it claims to be faithful while seemingly not acknowledging Greg at all. My problem is the very concept of reviving/rebooting/retwisting/regurgitating 'Gargoyles' holds zero interest for me. Even the recent crossovers leave me cold even though I can acknowledge that if you're going to do a crossover, the way Dynamite handled it was about the best you could hope for. In many respects, I've come to realise, I'm not sure I'd consider myself a 'Gargoyles' fan (or indeed a fan of any "franchise" even if I enjoy one specific instantiation of it). I'm a fan of Greg Weisman's 'Gargoyles' universe and narrative.

Blaise: Thanks!

Greg B: Hope Zach recovers well.


DEMONA #4

- It was a pleasant surprise to return to Constantinople. Even by Robby's standards, the colours on this are absolute top-knotch.

- I don't know that it's ever been stated that Demona doesn't willingly return to places from before. We know Demona has claimed to "weary of this fugitive life" but of course her only experience of breaking that tradition ended in 1057 so her caution is natural. Still, given her immortality I wonder if her concern is innate or a concern for Angelika. Given free choice (as she will have after Angelika's death), will she seek to find a more permanent residence again?

- It's a small universe after all. Seeing Shari was fantastic. Seeing Tom as well? Priceless!

- Intrigued by the story she tells.

- Of course, the Eye of Odin needed to come back.

- It's nice to see Demona's charming side. We've seen it a few times ("Temptation" and "Sanctuary" most obviously), it's not a mode we often see.

- The relationship between Angelika and Shari opens up all kinds of possibilities for "Season Five". (Incidentally, I can't really get my head around the idea of us being on Season Five already. While it makes perfect sense to call SLG Season 3 and Dynamite's first run Season 4, I still kind of feel like SLG and the Dynamite books are of a single piece superseding the old television Season 3 and that we're now on Season 4. I feel more sympathy with Brooklyn from "Hunter's Moon" every day).

- "I didn't say I learned it from her" - ha!

- The meeting with Tom and Demona is fascinating. It never really occurred to me that Tom would be having adventures every 1X95 but of course Avalon wouldn't let Tom just rock up on Wyvern and head back each time. Makes you wonder where else he went.

- Modi's motive is fascinating but a limitation of the short scope of these stories is that it feels a little underserved. And that's understandable - you can't telegraph it beforehand in a 22-page comic and the story shape doesn't support further explication afterwards. Still, it's one of those times I do regret the lack of the greater scope of the television episodes. Of course, the solution to that is probably just to check out the history books rather than yearn for more television. "Hit those books, kids!" - another timeless Brooklyn quote.

- Knowing Greg, we probably haven't seen the last of Modi, however much - without the eye - his story appears to have hit a dead end.

- "This decision... it's irrational!" says the queen of the rationalisation...

- I love Angelika's choice.

- So... the Eye is lost at sea. How it comes into Xanatos' possession remains an intriguing conundrum. Given how Demona used Thailog in her quest for the Keys of Power recently, I wonder whether she had a similar approach in 1993/4 and that she informed Xanatos of its location with the intention (ultimately) of lifting it for herself. Although of course there are far more interesting routes for it to take.

- Unexpected to have a cameo from Angela but the scene isn't just fanservice as it plants the seed that Tom deliberately hid from Angela (albeit a very young Angela) the survival of Demona. I wonder if Angela knows about this encounter now - presumably there was a reason Avalon sent Tom to where Demona was and that reason may not be apparent for a while to come. There is, at a stretch, a branching timeline where Demona, Angelika and Magni could have gone with Tom and settled on Avalon. Would that have been a better timeline? Certainly it would have spared Demona's heartbreak over Angelika (at least until the present time) and Demona wouldn't have had a further 800 years to emotionally calcify. Tom's a heroic, sympathetic character and his choice is probably the safest one... but it certainly makes him a more complex figure than we've seen until now.



Incidentally - a thought experiment. If the Demona mini-series were adapted for television and the original writing staff from the show were magically able to take on the adaptations, which writers would be best fits for each episode?

For me, I think #4 feels very Cary Bates - detectivy. #3 feels Michael Reaves - a good dose of darkness. #1 feels in the spirit of LWTM and other Brynne Chandler Reaves historicals. That leaves #2 and #5 as Sperling or Marano.
Ed
posted @ Mon, Jun 8, 2026 5:54:44 pm EDT from 209.93.185.204

Third
Phil
posted @ Mon, Jun 8, 2026 2:42:57 pm EDT from 50.192.123.171

Second.

Looking forward to the new stories as well.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 8, 2026 9:09:11 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

FIRST!

Nine+ weeks to go until new canon!
Matt
"If he's in Brooklyn, then who's in you?" "Wouldn't you like to know...?" - Othello/Broadway and Puck/Coldstone, "Possession"
posted @ Mon, Jun 8, 2026 8:44:26 am EDT from 69.229.197.48