A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room

This Week's Comments

Post A Comment : Hide Images

I don't have much to say about "Vendettas" other than it's a good, lighthearted episode that again shows Greg's philosophy on revenge. But it also plays around with it, Wolf and Hakon initially work well together until they're respective brutish natures end up clashing and by the time they work it out the tables have been turned. Weirdly enough, I think Hakon ending in such a miserable manner is a bit appropriate it reminds me of what Tolkien wrote about evil being inherently self-destructive. Vinnie who isn't evil in the slightest actually gets his revenge and some sense of satisfaction.

The big highlight of course is Vinnie and Jeff Bennett's ridiculous John Travolta impression. A good running gag is hard to pull off and despite Vinnie's life just generally sucking all around, it's never played as something truly awkward or to the point where we really start to pity the guy. Nothing quite to cringe comedy style sitcoms as it were. Plus Jeff's little "Aw man" right before the forklift Vinnie's atop of tips into the river is just perfect vocal comedy. Just one more misfortune topped onto his bad night.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

I've always kind of given a pass to "Vendettas." It's certainly no masterpiece, but it knows what kind of episode it is, and it's fine as a goofy outlier. Even the more "serious" of the episode's two plots is entirely built around an inside joke about two characters sharing the same voice actor (and I adore Clancy Brown, but let's face it, Hakon and Wolf sound exactly the same). Indeed, one of the more unlikely coincidences in the episode is that across countless generations over a millennium, Wolf would end up sounding identical to his distant ancestor! Talk about your dominant genes. There's a trend I noticed even as a kid that as Disney Afternoon shows reached the end of their 65-episode runs, the episodes would start to get a little wacky (see Darkwing Duck episodes like "Inside Binkie's Brain" or "The Haunting of Mr. Banana Brain"). It's like the writers and animators were getting punch-drunk after 18 months of nonstop work and just cut loose for their own amusement, which I always kind of loved. This one very much fits that profile for me. Honestly, it doesn't make my bottom 5, because it at least makes me laugh.

Are pie guns actually a common trope? It feels like they SHOULD be, and I guess I always assumed they were, because there was a pie gun in a Darkwing Duck episode ("Just Us Justice Ducks") and also a Darkwing comic in Disney Adventures, and then this Gargoyles episode. But I can't think of ANY other examples off the top of my head in cartoons or live action...and the first Google result is the Darkwing Duck wiki. It feels like something that should have been in Looney Tunes cartoons, but I don't think it ever was. I know Greg said in his ramble that the "pie gun" idea was apparently Brynne's and was based on an old Superman comic (he thinks). It certainly sounds like it could be a Silver Age Superman idea, but I couldn't find anything about it on Google. The TV Tropes page for "Family-Friendly Firearms" only mentions pie guns in relation to Garbage Pail Kids...I never watched that show, but I did find an episode on YouTube called "Pie Fight," which certainly does have pie guns! Any other examples?

The episode is hurt by some particularly crummy animation. It's tough to believe Koko was behind this one. The Koko/Anima Sam Won team did much better work on "Avalon Part Two," "Mark of the Panther," and "The Reckoning." I wonder what went so wrong here. In addition to all the reused footage, there's also a further time-wasting shot that lasts for TEN SECONDS just holding on the water after Vinnie has backed the forklift over the edge of the dock. Literally, ten seconds of choppy, bad-looking animation of water churning and some crates floating around, with dramatic score and NOTHING else happening. Whatever comic pacing the episode might have had is really damaged by the clunky animation, unfortunately.

Craig

MATTHEW - The Gathering does suggest one major element in "faerie mythology", the departure of the faerie-folk from the human world. A major difference, of course, is that those stories were recorded and set long before 1996, when the Gathering was imagined as taking place in the Gargoyles Universe, and when the episodes featuring it first aired, suggesting that (from the Gargoyles Universe's perspective) those reports were premature. (It reminds me of a passage at the end of the entry on "Departure of the fairies" from Katharine Briggs' excellent "An Encyclopedia of Fairies" - "Yet, however often they may be reported as gone, the fairies still linger.... Like the chorus of policemen in 'The Pirates of Penzance', they say, 'We go, we go,' but they don't go."

Rewatched "Vendettas" today.

This has the reputation of being perhaps the worst episode of "Gargoyles" during its Disney Afternoon era. I think that its main problem is that Hakon's return feels anticlimactic. In "Shadows of the Past", he was besetting Goliath with a series of illusions preying on Goliath's troubled memories of the Wyvern Massacre, told in a very effective piece of storytelling. Here, he and Wolf are simply having an almost half-hour fight with Goliath and Hudson. There are a few funny moments (I particularly liked the bit where Wolf is planning to give Goliath and Hudson a big fight, only to be sent flying by them before he can strike a blow - there's something amusing about the "fight is over a lot quicker than you expected" moments), and Hakon's exasperation with Wolf (which seems almost an adaptation of the concept from "Gargoyles"' original proposal as a comedy of the evil wizard who'd cursed the gargoyles being frustrated with his descendant Xavier - we got another touch of that with the two Archmages in "Avalon Part Two") was also entertaining. But overall, it felt closer to a regular animated adventure series.

The Vinnie sub-plot was a bit better, I thought (though I recall that the first time I saw this episode, I wondered whether it seemed a bit far-fetched for the motorcyclist from "Awakening Part Three", the Cyberbiotics security guard on board Fortress-One in "Awakening Part Four", and the Gen-U-Tech security guard in "The Cage" were all the same guy); I especially liked how Vinnie's narration often clashed dramatically with the actual events. Not to mention the part where Vinnie spends so much time talking about his memories of past encounters with Goliath that Goliath and Hudson have left by the time he'd finished.

While Vinnie insisting on naming his pie-throwing gun does seem bizarre (certainly Mr. Acme saw it that way), there actually is a time-honored tradition of unusual and marvelous weapons receiving names. King Arthur's Excalibur is one of the best-known examples (and had already appeared in "Gargoyles"); elsewhere in the series, we have Odin's spear Gungnir (not yet introduced, of course) and Cuchulain's spear Gae Bolga. Other celebrated mythological weapons with names include Thor's hammer Mjolnir, Sigurd/Siegfried's sword variously named Gram, Balmung, or Nothung, Beowulf's sword Hrunting (actually loaned to him by someone else when he entered Grendel's lake to confront Grendel's mother), Roland's sword Durendal, and many more. (And more recently, we've got named swords in modern-day fantasy works, such as Glamdring, Orcrist, Narsil/Anduril, and Sting in Tolkien's "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings".) It wasn't even just swords and other hand-held weapons that were receiving names; Edward I of England, for example, had a few trebuchets that had names (one of which, Warwolf, will get a cameo in the Stone of Destiny story in "Clan-Building"), and some time after that, there was the late medieval Scottish cannon Mons Meg, not to mention, as recently as World War I, Big Bertha. (For that matter, even objects that weren't weapons would receive names in some legends - Norse mythology has several named cauldrons, for example.) All of which seems to support Hudson's comment from "Awakening Part Three" about humans insisting on giving names to everything....

Of course, it's probably the specific kind of name - Mr. Carter - that helped provoke Mr. Acme's response. (It reminds me of a fantasy story I came across many years ago, written by Jack C. Chalker, I believe, where a modern-day man transported to a fantasy world and being given a magic sword decides to name it "Irving"; when someone else points out to him that magic swords are supposed to have much more impressive names, like Excalibur, he replies "But I like 'Irving'".) Still, there is something appropriate about the pie-cannon having a name, something traditionally bestowed on legendary weapons. After all, it was part of a remarkable moment - the one time somebody succeeded in getting revenge on Goliath (it helped, of course, that that revenge took the form of baked goods in the face).

Goliath's having absolutely no idea who Vinnie is (which will be repeated in "The Journey") is all the funnier given Greg Weisman's remark that Vinnie is the character in "Gargoyles" whom he most resembles. (It reminds me a bit of a "Peanuts" strip Charles Schulz once drew around the same time he was the Grand Marshal in a Tournament of Roses parade. Linus finds Lucy watching the parade on television and asks her if the Grand Marshal has gone by yet; she replies, "Yes, but he wasn't anyone you ever heard of.")

And one other little touch that I found funny; the construction worker spots Goliath and Hudson and is convinced it's due to his cough medicine (though if it's strong enough to make him hallucinate living gargoyles, he shouldn't be operating heavy machinery while using it!).

It says all the more about the tone of this episode that (the one time I can recall it happening in "Gargoyles") it irises out at the very end.

And I've noticed that I found a lot of entrants for the "Favorite Lines" below, suggesting that one redeeming feature of the episode is a lot of fun quotes.

FAVORITE LINES.

MR. ACME: Mr. Carter? You're giving it a name?

VINNIE (pointing Mr. Carter at him): Hey, you got a problem with that?

MR. ACME: Oh, Mr. Carter's perfect. It - it - it suits him, yeah.


WOLF: Hmm... Two against two. I got no problem with that.

HAKON: Neither do I.


HUDSON: I still can't see why they call it a "Big Apple".

GOLIATH: Some questions, old friend, are best left for humans to resolve.


HUDSON: I thought your weapons of choice were the fang and the claw.

WOLF: Yeah, well, tonight is battle-axe night!


HAKON: They're not running, you fool! They're charging!

WOLF: Let them! I'll swat them away like a couple of gnats!

{Goliath and Hudson send him flying with just one punch, before he can do anything.}

HUDSON: I must admit, I enjoyed that.

GOLIATH: I'm glad someone did.


HUDSON: Since when do werewolves fly?

GOLIATH: The question isn't "when", but "how".


HAKON (possessing Wolf): What id you expect, a fair fight?


HAKON: How you could be descended from me, I shall never know.


WOLF: Once I'm through softening you up, you'll beg me to finish you!

GOLIATH: Gargoyles do not beg!


WOLF: Two against one!

HUDSON (parrying the axe with his sword): Two against two!


HAKON: Surrender now and I offer you a quick demise!

HUDSON: I was about to make you the same offer.

HAKON: Me, surrender? Not a ghost of a chance!


HUDSON: Get an afterlife.


WOLF: Come on, gargoyle. Are you afraid to die like a man?

GOLIATH: What would a Mutate werewolf know about being a man?

Todd Jensen

Thanks Todd, Xanatos really is one of the most fascinating characters in television.

The Gathering is kind of fascinating because while it looks like a way of removing the Third Race from the plot (not long after they made their big appearances) we know from Greg's comments that it will still be ongoing and certain characters will leave Avalon from time to time. I wonder that if the conflict planned between Mab and Oberon comes to pass whether some of them will take advantage to slip away.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

MATTHEW - Thanks for your comments, and a good analysis of Xanatos.

I'm still hoping that we'll get to see the Queen Mab story someday (I've mentioned this before, but I can't resist calling it - though I believe Greg Weisman would find a different title for it - "Legend of the Chaos Goddess"). And your remarks made me wonder how Oberon defeated Mab in the initial fight, though Greg's hinted that Merlin helped out (and that this was why Oberon gave permission for King Arthur to be brought to Avalon), and might have been able to bring some human magic into the fray.

Todd Jensen

The second half of the Gathering sure had it's fair share of reveals too: Vogel is the original stick in the mud, Owen as Puck, and Fox possessing magic of her own. This is also the big game changer in the conflict between the clan and Xanatos.

One of the things that really stood out to me was seeing Xanatos pushed to the very brink this episode as he tries everything and anything to protect his son, even recklessly bull-charging a veritable demigod with a primal cry of anger. I remember when Owen remarked how heroic Xanatos looked carrying the recently reverted Fox in his arms and Xanatos snarking that it's a momentary thing. I bring this up because when Xanatos works towards something heroic or selfless...he doesn't usually succeed. He ultimately needed Goliath and Elisa to save Fox and here he needed Goliath to help convince Oberon not to take Alexander. It's rather fitting that his machinations against the clans (at least in his usual methods) would end here. Twice now they've saved someone that Xanatos couldn't replace even with all of his money and influence. It's also fitting that this is where Petros would gain some respect for his son, because he now sees that David cares about something more than money.

One thing I think was also important is to show that despite Oberon being the biggest, most powerful force seen thus far, he's not so powerful that there was never a chance against him. Invincible villains can kill a lot of engagement in action shows and may require a deus ex machina to be dealt with. While ultimately he's beaten (so to speak) by reason rather than force showing that he can be weakened, even harmed, really fleshes out the character. If Greg's notes are anything to go by if Oberon wasn't as powerful as he is or even if he had been worn down even more, there's a chance that harpoon in the back might've crippled or killed him. Still an awesome moment from Petros by the way.

I bring this up because I've been thinking about Mab and the canon-in-training. If a group of lowly mortals can do this to the Lord of Avalon. Think about what dearest mother could accomplish.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Just been busy with getting out or just other hobby related stuff, but I am caught up on all Gargoyles comics

I'll comment more on the episode reviews after reading them when the words come to mind.

That said, the Avalon World Tour. Well one argument for is that Future Tense might not have had the same impact if the episodes were less, as with The Gathering Part 1. They really do give the proper emotional impact relating the the AWT length.

894eee

Antiyonder

I forgot to mention, in my reviews of "Future Tense" and "The Gathering Part One", Goliath calling the Avalon World Tour an "odyssey". It felt particularly apt in "Future Tense" because Odysseus was away from Ithaca for twenty years, Goliath, according to the "Future Tense" illusion, was away from Manhattan for forty years, and the "gargoyles age at half the speed of humans" detail means that twenty years for a human could match forty years for a gargoyle. It does make me wonder what Goliath would have made of Homer's "Odyssey" after returning home.

Rewatched "The Gathering Part Two" today.

It struck me that Goliath's coming to Xanatos's aid was all the more impressive, coming so soon after that horrific vision in "Future Tense" of Xanatos ruling Manhattan as an utter tyrant (even if it was all an illusion of Puck's, and it wasn't the real Xanatos even in the illusion). (When Goliath says at the end that "the future is not written yet", he might well be suggesting all the more that maybe that vision can be averted.)

The battle with Oberon was certainly impressive; I remember being particularly delighted by Renard and Vogel showing up to help out. It helped make the fight feel all the more on an epic scale.

Oberon bringing the statues to "life" has stood out to me for many years as helping to support gargoyles being regular living beings rather than animated statues. Oberon's "living" statues certainly seemed far less alive than the gargoyles; they were mostly silent (though I noticed, this time, the winged lion letting out a roar when Oberon animated it), displayed very simple programming, and remained stone. In short, they were more akin to a magical counterpart of the Steel Clan robots. And this was one of the most powerful magical beings in the Gargoyles Universe. Granted, Oberon wasn't seeking to create new life forms at the time, but still, it suggests that bestowing genuine life, the kind of life that the gargoyles display, might be beyond even his ability, and that gargoyles must have a more natural, biological origin, rather than being descended from statues magically brought to life.

On Oberon's attack on the Eyrie Building's force field: I've mentioned this here before, but some years ago, one of my favorite webcomics, "Gunnerkrigg Court", had a scene where a mad wolf-god (a sort of fusion of Ysengrin the Wolf from the tales of Renard the Fox with Coyote the Trickster - yep, the same Coyote, more or less, whom we met in "Cloud Fathers") was attacking the Court of the title, which was protected by a force field generated by a group of robots. The wolf-god was hammering on the force field with his fists, in a way that reminded me of Oberon doing the same to the Eyrie Building's force field - in both cases, a powerful magical being attacking a high-tech-produced force field - that I mentioned it in the webcomic's forums. I was delighted to see that many of the other posters who read my comment had fond memories of "Gargoyles" as well; one particularly praised Owen's statement in "The Gathering Part One" about "energy is energy, whether generated by science or sorcery", as placing science and magic on (more or less) equal footing.

(And we get a sense of that last part in such matters as the force field protecting Xanatos, Petros, and Fox from Oberon's sleeping-spell, also a good touch.)

This time around, I noticed Owen addressing Oberon as "my lord" shortly before turning into Puck, another hint - if a very last-minute one - to his identity.

Puck's explaining all about how he became Owen remains a particular delightful scene - all the more so, as some reviewers have commented, by what his "visual aids" did to Oberon (with a tone of "After seeing Oberon pushing the rest of the cast about, it's great to see that happening to him"). Especially when he revealed the true connection between Owen and Vogel - and that actually Vogel was the original one and Owen the imitation! And I still note Puck being intrigued and delighted by Xanatos choosing the "lifetime of service from Owen" over "a wish from the Puck". (Which still strikes me as one of Xanatos's best decisions ever - particularly in light of how Puck was granting Demona's wishes in "The Mirror"!)

Titania mentions at the end that she intends to look in on Fox and Alex from time to time; it reminded me, this viewing, of her showing up in "Here in Manhattan" to summon Fox to Renard's deathbed.

And one odd little touch: Broadway at the end turns to stone shortly before the rest of the clan. I won't try to explain that one.

A great Part Two, and setting up important developments to come (including the beginning of the end of the conflict between the gargoyles and Xanatos).

FAVORITE LINES.

BROOKLYN: He's that powerful, and we're taking him on? Why are we risking our necks to help Xanatos?

GOLIATH: I know the pain of being separated from my child. I would not wish it on my worse enemy.

HUDSON (to Angela): You've had quite an influence on him.

ANGELA: It's mutual.


PETROS: I thought those creatures were your enemies.

XANATOS: Never look a gift gargoyle in the mouth.


BROOKLYN (to Angela, just after they'd led two of Oberon's animated statues to collide with each other): It's incredible how often that move works.


XANATOS: All our defenses, and he just keeps coming.

PETROS: But you're standing up to him.

XANATOS: He's after my son.

PETROS: We haven't always seen eye to eye, David, but I have never been prouder to be your father.

XANATOS: Thanks, pop.


OBERON: Finally, all the nuisances have been eliminated.

OWEN (standing in the doorway): I'm afraid, my lord, there's one nuisance left.

XANATOS: Owen. I knew you'd come back.

OWEN: It was against my better judgment, Mr. Xanatos. Nevertheless.

{He spins around, transforming into....}

PUCK (with a close-up to the camera): Here's Puck!


PUCK: But it's such a good explanation. And I brought visual aids.


PUCK (looking at the camera as he speaks): Don't interrupt. I'm on a roll!


PUCK: But who to be? What role should the Puck play? And that's when I noticed the stiffest and most wooden mortal on the face of the earth.

{He transforms a potted tree into a giant wooden statue of Vogel, who seizes Oberon and holds him tight.}

PUCK: The trickster has played many parts over the millennia, but never that of straight man. I determined to out-Vogel Vogel and created....

{He turns the statue into one of Owen.}

PUCK: Owen Burnett!


PUCK: Can't you forget about the kid and put off the Gathering for a few more centuries? I'm sure we'll be happy to report to Avalon by then.

OBERON: Oberon does not compromise. Oberon commands!


PUCK (to Fox): You hurt him with that one. Do it again!


PUCK: I've got a sunny disposition, and I'm always kind to animals.


PUCK: No, please, my lord! Please reconsider! I'll do anything!

OBERON: Pathetic.


XANATOS: Wait!

GOLIATH: What?

XANATOS: Without your help, I would have lost my son tonight. I owe you all a debt of gratitude that I may never be able to repay. But I will try. I promise.

GOLIATH: And I should trust this promise, after all that has passed between us?

{Xanatos lowers his head.}

GOLIATH: Still, I know from experience the transforming power of a child's love. And the future is not written yet.

Todd Jensen

Won't be the last time Greg plays around with a Gathering that has plenty of Magic involved. Heh.

Anyway, there are plenty who think that the World Tour Arc ran a bit longer than was needed, it's hard to argue against that but I still feel the world building was needed. At the very least it came with a thrilling conclusion. What's really impactful is that this is an episode which sees most of the primary antagonists thrown out of their comfort zone instead of the heroes for a change. Owen is panicked to the point that his unflappable nature breaks and he beats a hasty retreat without another word. Xanatos is once again on the top of life before everything comes crashing down on him hard as he's utterly powerless against Oberon. And Fox who's usually so coolheaded is utterly overwhelmed by both the reveal of her mother and that she would willingly help her old flame steal away her newborn baby, breaks down in tears. We've seen our heroes work through the victories and losses when they were at their lowest and most desperate. Now it's the residents of the Eyrie Building's turn.

With all of this going on, the reveal of Angela to the clan and them learning about other gargoyles in the world almost feels like an afterthought. I sometimes wonder if there should have been another episode before the Gathering where the travelers could take a moment to breathe and readjust to coming home. Much like when Brooklyn and the gang returned from the Time Dance, there could be a bit of time set aside as the characters take stock in the fact that the status quo has changed. Of course things are a bit more urgent which brings up the point of Avalon.

As brought up by the episode and Todd, Avalon sends them to Manhattan because of Oberon and Titania's presence. I like to think that while Oberon commands Avalon, the land itself has a will of its own, a Genius Loci sort of thing. Much like the Phoenix Gate popping Brooklyn and family across the timestream or Oberon deciding to take a child from his parents, Avalon seems to be sending them all over the world without much consideration on what the travelers want. In some cases it took them to places directly linked to the group like the visit to Arizona or Nigeria, others they had to figure out on their own. A part of me wonders considering how the Third Race isn't always considerate to mortal morals whether Avalon would keep sending them to places where they were needed and sending them to Manhattan was a very last minute decision once it became aware what Oberon was going to do. We don't see it but the skiff sinks into the water and returns home, perhaps this was meant to be the last of their adventures or maybe it realized that once Elisa and Goliath saw Manhattan again they'd be less inclined to hop back in for further adventures. I don't know. Trying to work through the mind of the Third Race is an adventure all on itself.

One last thing, I do find it funny that Travis Marshall wouldn't have a problem mentioning that Fox and Xanatos are ex-cons. While I think neither one would mind, heck Xanatos would probably be impressed that a member of the press isn't letting him off the hook. Still I've noticed today's journalism tends to tiptoe around such things, upsetting billionaires can be dangerous for careers unfortunately.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

CRAIG - That's an interesting possibility about gargoyles being immune to gorgons' gaze. Of course, it'll have to be a speculation for now.
Todd Jensen

Todd > Has it been discussed that perhaps gargoyles are immune to the gorgons' power, due to their inherent stone-based biology? I'd sort of assumed that that was the point of the scene.

Back in 1996, as happy as I was to see Goliath and company finally arriving home in Manhattan, I felt a bit teased by the episode title. I was hoping that the entire episode would revolve around the Gathering on Avalon, and was disappointed that that portion of the episode was over so quickly. As much great stuff as there is in this episode, I still wish a bit more time had been spent on that.

Craig

One slip-up in my review: I should have, in the favorite lines section, written that Elisa was "putting her fingers to his [Goliath's] mouth". I've got to proofread these before I post them.
Todd Jensen

Sorry for the double post, but I rewatched "The Gathering Part One" today.

We open with a great scene of the Third Race flocking back into the castle on Avalon, most of them bearing lights. There are some familiar faces among them (Grandmother, Raven, Anubis, Anansi, the Lady of the Lake, Odin, Coyote the Trickster), and some new ones as extras. I spotted among them a winged horse (Pegasus?), a centaur, a gorgon-like figure with snaky hair, and a couple of giants. The presence of the winged horse, centaur, and gorgon indicates that not all the unusual beings from Greek mythology were New Olympians (while the giants looked more suggestive of the jotnar of Norse myth; let's hope they've made some sort of truce with Odin). The gorgon seemed to be speaking with a female winged figure who looked like a gargoyle to me, though I'm not sure whether she was a member of the Avalon clan or a member of the Third Race who happened to look gargoyle-ish. Since she was also speaking with the gorgon without signs of petrification, this would imply that either the gorgon can switch off her "turn people to stone" gaze, or that it was another case of "Not all things are accurate".

There's something almost comical about the way the Weird Sisters deliver the Banshee; when she shouts at them to release her, they drop her on the floor and then shrug, as if to say "We did what she told us to do".

Oberon's putting the stopper over the Banshee's mouth until she can "show true humility with [her] silent plea" feels like part of a set-up for the proposed but never-made "Heroes of Ulster" spin-off. I've sometimes wondered whether it was that advisable for "Gargoyles" this late in Season Two to be laying the ground for stories that might not be made, but I assume that at the time they were working on "The Gathering Part One", the ratings hadn't seriously started to go down yet - or that they hadn't noticed yet.

We get our first glimpse of Puck's flute, which will play a major role much later on.

I noticed that Oberon at least once referred to Puck as "the Puck", which ties in to earlier (pre-Shakespeare) depictions of Puck as more a variety of faerie than a single entity.

This time around, I noticed that when Petros Xanatos notes how much Owen and Vogel resemble each other (and it's the first time in the series that they're in the same episode, let along the same scene together) and Vogel replies that they're not related, Owen smiles a bit. Of course, he's the one person present (unless Anastasia/Titania had figured it out without telling anyone - which I can imagine her doing) who knows the precise nature of their connection, and is enjoying a private joke.

I wondered, when Owen alarmedly exited the room upon learning that Anastasia had re-married her first husband, where he was headed. I thought at first that he might be seeking Xanatos out to warn him, but Xanatos entered almost immediately afterwards, and Owen didn't meet with him and deliver his warning until later. Perhaps he was instead hurrying back to his office to start activating the defense program.

One moment I get a kick out of is Oberon's encounter with the Jogger; Oberon watches the shaken-up man jogging past, as if to say "What's the matter with him? You'd think he'd never seen a Shakespearean faerie lord leading a gargoyle beast on a leash before".

I'm also amused at the scene where Oberon entrances the doorman at the Eyrie Building; the man, when he's repeating Oberon's commands, says them in simpler ways ("You have other matters to attend to", "I have other things to do"), as if Oberon's more formal style is beyond him.

Oberon's response to Anastasia/Titania's marriage with Halcyon Renard is amusement; he's clearly not a jealous husband. (Of course, he and Titania were separated at the time.) And we get a look at Renard as a younger man, not yet confined to his high-tech chair.

Travis Marshall, as he delivers his report about Alex's birth, mentions Xanatos and Fox both being ex-cons. (He's clearly not afraid to do so; he brought up Xanatos's prison time on his first appearance, in "The Edge".)

Goliath's homecoming is one of the big moments of this episode. It's all the more a delight to watch in contrast to the homecoming in "Future Tense", just one episode before. There, Brooklyn and Lexington had both received him bitterly, Brooklyn even socking Goliath; here, they're joyfully welcoming him home (I can't help wondering whether Goliath noticed the contrast). Broadway, in the meantime, is just as joyfully welcoming Elisa, and Cagney even jumps into her arms (none of my cats have ever accomplished such a feat, though they've shown their affection in other ways). We have Angela introduced to the rest of the clan, Hudson and the trio learning about the other clans out there, and Hudson's comment on it, probably one of the most moving moments in the series. It was definitely worth the wait.

Owen hurriedly departing the Eyrie Building before Oberon's attack was when I first began to suspect that he and Puck were the same person (of course, I missed the implications of his knowing the significance of Anastasia being reunited with her first husband). Oberon had originally come to Manhattan to drag Puck back to Avalon; if Owen and Puck were the same, that would explain why he'd be so uneasy at the thought of confronting Oberon.

This time around, I noted Titania informing the gargoyles about her and Oberon's plan to take Alex away. Given how shrewd and observant Titania is, I think it's safe to say that she must have recognized that Goliath wouldn't have approved of the plan, and would in fact seek to prevent it. Which got me wondering if this was all part of her plan - leading to the gargoyles making peace with Xanatos and his family, and ensuring, in turn, that they could make effective protectors for her daughter and grandson. (One of the moments where the Goliath Chronicles got things right was Titania expressing just that desire for Goliath and his clan to have that role in "For It May Come True".)

Note, also, that Avalon seems to have sent Goliath back to Manhattan to prevent Oberon - Avalon's ruler - from carrying Alex off, meaning that the island was acting against its lord. Of course, if Oberon had succeeded in doing that, it would have most likely started a war between him and Xanatos and Fox, seeking to recover their child; Avalon presumably recognized that and thought it better in its interests and Oberon's if Alex stayed in Manhattan. ("I have served you ever since I was a child;/ But better service have I never done you/ Than now to bid you hold.")

When Oberon opens his attack on the Eyrie Building, one of his reflected spells makes a dent in a nearby lamp post. Shortly thereafter, when he casts his sleeping spell over the population of New York, a car crashes into the lamp post as the result of its driver falling asleep, damaging it further. That poor lamp post seems to be the Vinnie of the "Inanimate Objects of Manhattan".


FAVORITE LINES.

OBERON (entering the great hall of Castle Wyvern and looking about): A pleasant conceit.


OBERON: I have made up my mind.

FOX: Too bad for you.


HUDSON (upon learning that gargoyles have survived elsewhere in the world): We're not the last. We're not alone.


HUDSON: I imagine you have much to tell us.

GOLIATH: Nothing more important than this. Our journey is ended. Avalon has released us from our quest. We are home.


GOLIATH: We could not have survived this odyssey without you.

ELISA: Hey, it was fun. Most of the time. But, there really is no place like home.

{She notes that Cagney, who had eagerly sprung through the apartment window, is now rubbing his head happily against the coffee-table.}

ELISA: See, even Cagney missed it. It was really nice of Hudson and Broadway to take care of him while I was gone.

GOLIATH: The clan will always be there for you. I will always be there for you.

ELISA: I know.

GOLIATH: If only we were....

ELISA (putting her lips to his mouth): Shh.... We are what we are.


GOLIATH: Experience has taught me that nothing should come between a parent and a child. Not even if that parent is Xanatos.

TITANIA: Have you forgotten how I helped your clan on Avalon?

GOLIATH: No. But that does not justify what you are about to do.

TITANIA: So you will not help. But neither will you interfere, or Oberon will crush you with a thought.

{She disappears.}

LEXINGTON: Goliath?

GOLIATH: I thought that Avalon had released us. But it seems that we were sent to Manhattan because of the danger here.

Todd Jensen

MATTHEW - Thanks for your comments. An additional blow to Goliath, of course, would be Lexington turning traitor; that revelation must have truly been a devastating moment.

JOHN WICK - Sorry, but Greg doesn't read fan proposals. (Nobody in the business does, in fact. It's to keep themselves safe from potential litigation over someone claiming "You stole my idea".)

Todd Jensen

Hey Greg Weisman! I'm a huge fan of Young Justice, and I worked on a structured proposal for its final seasons, providing closure to all major characters while staying true to the show's themes. I would love to hear your thoughts! You can check it out here: https://1drv.ms/w/c/63c9dcd87a28e200/EevnK_0KdZpMpxiWTduFo8sBpSK-4K7P9jFhS_bP3T9AAg?e=hlAgQi
John Wick - [gabrielconstantinegomes at gmail dot com]
John_Wick

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever."
-Nineteen Eighty-Four

Ah, "Future Tense", where Greg gives a chilling terrible future scenario that leaves the audience with as many questions as Goliath has. Ever since It's a Wonderful Life there's been depictions of a future or a present where the absence of a key person or hero creates a nightmarish world too bleak to seem real. Greg would play around with this sort of thing in Young Justice, the horrifying possibility of losing all of the heroes against a terrifying foe was explored in "Failsafe," a Kobayashi Maru-styled episode given a dark twist. And in season 2 the dark future plotline carried through Impulse and Blue Beetle's character arc. These sort of things have become a bit more common as television's gotten more daring. Even the notorious censor-heavy 4Kids got in on it with their 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle series. Their episode "Same As It Never Was" became one of the darkest pieces in the franchise's history and even inspired the critically acclaimed series The Last Ronin.

What I find really fascinating about this episode is that it's pretty revealing on some of Goliath's worst fears. The home he's grown to care for and protect is unrecognizable, his clan and his family hate him and are then wiped out, one of his worst enemies has become an inhuman tyrant and worst of all, he has no idea if this was just a ploy or a prelude of things to come.

What makes "Future Tense" such an important episode is that the ambiguity makes it all the more suspenseful and the the delving into these dark illusions creates a great bit of character development for Goliath's part as he's now adamant to not let this future come to pass. Just as "Failsafe" was necessary for the Team to take some steps in maturing as well as reveal just how powerful Miss Martian is, it was necessary for Goliath to recognize that there were lines not even Xanatos would cross (a hard thing to do considering his past with him) but also keep his mind on events that may still happen. The comics saw his unease at Lexington's Halloween costume, I can only imagine what he'd think once the Eyrie Building gets an upgrade.

When it comes to Puck and the Phoenix Gate, I never thought he would try to use the Gate myself, more like try to use is as a bargaining chip with Oberon. The Gate was made in Avalon even though its magics predate it, I can imagine Oberon would want that sort of thing or power close at hand. My guess was that he was going to use it to barter for more time in the mortal realm and if that failed he could always try and use it to escape to some other time. He may not be able to stop the Gathering, but he could see to it that he arrived late to the party.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

CRAIG - Thanks for your comments. Some good analysis on why the Phoenix Gate could be trouble even with "time travelers can't change the past" rules (though I still really like the notion that, after what Puck had just put Goliath through, there was no way Goliath was going to give him what he wanted even if he couldn't cause any trouble with it).

And it's certainly worth studying the depiction of the major characters in the illusion for signs of how Owen/Puck views them. For a start, he definitely sees Broadway as the sweetest of the trio - the only one of the three who didn't give up on Goliath, in contrast to Brooklyn's bitterness and Lexington's turning into an outright villain, and the character who gets by far the most touching death-scene.

Todd Jensen

"Future Tense" was immediately one of my favorite episodes when it aired, even though most of it didn't "happen." As bleak as it is from Goliath's perspective, it's also kind of a very funny dark comedy episode if you approach it from Puck's point of view, and realize that everyone besides Goliath is Puck play-acting to the hilt. Especially what could be viewed as his satirical treatment of his boss, Xanatos. Which I don't mean to take away at all from the episode's poignancy and menace...I certainly cry almost every time at Broadway's "death." It just works on so many levels.

As for the question Todd mentions of why Goliath didn't give Puck the Gate, since it can't be used to change the past, well...this is a mindf---, but it makes perfect logical sense to me. None of us are aware of everything that's happened in the past, just as we can't be aware of the future. So, even if time is nonlinear, and the past-present-future are completely written in stone, we all still have our roles to play in how events play out. Goliath giving the Gate to Puck could lead to events that have already "happened," but of which Goliath is unaware. I know a lot of people feel that fixed timelines negate free will, but I don't feel that way at all. Yes, in the grand schemes of things, either Goliath ALWAYS gave the Gate to Puck, or he NEVER did. But it's still a choice, one with potentially vast causal repercussions, and one which he makes out of free will. As Xanatos would put it, "Time travel's funny that way."

Craig

Rewatched "Future Tense" today.

This episode could be sub-titled "The one where Puck reveals himself to be a really sick and twisted 'Gargoyles' fanfic writer", except that it would give the ending away. And it's certainly sick and twisted; he has Xanatos (or, more accurately, a Lexington-turned-villainous masquerading as Xanatos) take over the world, kills off almost all the cast (until only Goliath and Elisa are left alive), and makes Brooklyn and Demona a couple.

I mentioned in my comments on "Awakening" how Goliath was dealt one blow after another (the Wyvern Massacre, the apparent death of his "angel of the night", the inability to get revenge on Hakon and the Captain thanks to their falling off the cliff, the surviving gargoyles all trapped in stone sleep) until he was so devastated as to ask the Magus to turn him to stone. Puck used a similar approach, wearing Goliath down. He discovers that he's been away for forty years with Manhattan in ruins, ruled over by Xanatos. He discovers that Hudson is dead. Brooklyn is bitter and even strikes him. Broadway has been blinded (and Talon, Maggie, and Coldstone are all apparently dead). Lexington has become a cyborg. And then the deaths come one after another, until, as I said above, Elisa's the only one left besides himself. At least he hasn't lost her as well - but that's obviously to ensure that there's someone whom he trusts, and whom he might thereby give the Phoenix Gate to.

Brooklyn and Demona's pairing is the one weird event that doesn't feel like a blow against Goliath (though I recall a mention about it that Demona's finally given up her evil ways, apparently - but she's now mates with Brooklyn and still isn't available). I think it's a good touch in providing something weird that isn't "doom and gloom", providing some variety to the audience - just "what on earth?". One particularly fun detail is that not only is Goliath staring at the sight in utter bewilderment, but so is Bronx!

(Speaking of Bronx, we get a couple of charming moments for him in the episode. When Goliath, at the very start, is talking about missing the trio and Hudson - I suspect that the audience was really empathizing with him at that moment - Bronx bows his head, as if missing them too. And when they learn that Hudson is dead, Bronx looks sad.)

Just two episodes before, we saw Xanatos quipping about his "first real stab at cliched villainy". Now we see a seemingly bigger stab at it from him - and it's a lot darker.

It still strikes me that this episode parallels "Shadows of the Past". In both cases, Goliath is subjected to a series of nightmarish illusions designed to wear him down - but fortunately realizes in time that they're illusions, and confronts the person or people behind them. It feels very appropriate that both the first full episode of the World Tour and the last one share this feature.

Goliath's mention, the first time he refuses to do something with the Phoenix Gate, that "time is like a river", reminds me of the phrase "time-stream" that often turns up in time travel fiction. (I even once included a literal "Time-Stream" in a time travel story that I wrote - but have set aside for the moment; I hope to return to it someday - that could transport you to a different running body of water if you went down it - it might take you to the Nile in ancient Egypt one time, the Mississippi during the steamboat era on another.)

The remaining New Yorkers (including - in a memorable moment, Captain Chavez's daughter) huddling on the streets and even eating rats cooked over fires, reminded me of Matthew's poem-cycle from last year - though the "Future Tense" depiction was even bleaker.

Broadway calls Brooklyn "Brook" at one point; this is the one time in the series I can remember someone calling Brooklyn "Brook". (Generally, the only member of the trio to get an abbreviation to his name was Lexington. I certainly don't recall anyone ever calling Broadway "Broad", either.)

I have a fond memory of one question about this episode at "Ask Greg". Someone asked Greg Weisman why Goliath didn't give Puck the Phoenix Gate, since it couldn't be used to change the past. Greg pointed out that that didn't mean it couldn't cause trouble in other ways (as the series showed) - before following it up with the really great part of the answer: "would you have given it to Puck after 'Future Tense'?" A very good response. (And, in a couple of episodes, Goliath will get back at Puck for it - at least, that's one interpretation of his act.)


FAVORITE LINES.

ANGELA (beholding the ruined Manhattan and decaying Statue of Liberty): This is the world you wanted me to see?


XANATOS: Nice try, my boy. But you can't defeat me. Your rebels are doomed. And once they're gone, there'll be no one left to stop me. In fact, before this night is over, I'll literally be king of the world. And since I'm immortal, I have no need of an heir.


GOLIATH: Hold on, Broadway. If you can last until sunrise, you'll be healed.

BROADWAY: Oh, yes... The sun. Can you see it, Goliath? It's beautiful.

{He dies.}

GOLIATH: Good-bye, my friend.


BROOKLYN: Your body was destroyed.

XANATOS PROGRAM: Sad, but true. However, my brain waves and personality patterns were downloaded into my computer network, granting me the immortality I've always desired.

GOLIATH: You're not immortal. You're not even Xanatos. The real Xanatos at his worst would not have done what you've done. You're just an unfeeling machine.

XANATOS PROGRAM: Well, this machine is about to download onto every computer on the World Wide Web, bringing the planet exactly the kind of order it needs.

{It smashes a globe of the Earth.}

XANATOS PROGRAM: My kind.


XANATOS PROGRAM (having just disintegrated Demona): Well, that's that.

GOLIATH (his statue form coming to life): No, it is not. It ends now, machine.


XANATOS PROGRAM (holding Goliath's head): Alas, poor Goliath. I knew him well.

GOLIATH: You will not win?

XANATOS PROGRAM: What are you going to do? Bite my knee-caps off?


GOLIATH: Demona. Brooklyn. Angela.

LEXINGTON: Gone bye-bye.

His floating chair turns around, revealing him.

LEXINGTON: Sorry about that.

GOLIATH: You're not Elisa. Who are you?

ELISA (as the world around them disappears): No! No! Not now!

{"Elisa" spins around and changes into Puck.}

PUCK: I was so close! So close!


GOLIATH: And that's why you created that horrible dream?

PUCK: Oh, was it a dream, or a prophecy?

GOLIATH: I have to know!

PUCK: Mmmm-hmmm. Like I'd tell you. Wake up!

{The dream fades as Goliath re-awakens on the skiff, Elisa staring down at him.}

ELISA: Wake up! Wake up, Goliath!


GOLIATH: I had a nightmare, Elisa. Now we must get home, and make sure it does not come true.

Todd Jensen

Sorry for the double post!

30 years ago today, "Reawakening" aired for the first time. This is my favorite episode and I just randomly spotted the date when I was doing something else on the GargWiki yesterday ( https://gargwiki.net/Reawakening ), so I thought I'd mention it.

Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."

Second!
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."

First.
Todd Jensen