The bit about the Children of Oberon involved in a story set during the "Dark Ages" period put me in mind again about my theory that Nicolas, whom we met in "Dark Ages: Alliance", is the Gargoyles Universe version of Nick Bottom, and that he would have an encounter with Titania (the original of the donkey-head incident in Shakespeare's play) that would be the catalyst for Oberon divorcing her and banishing the Third Race from Avalon. (Nicolas isn't mentioned in it - but, of course, we didn't know about him yet at the time, while we did know about the characters listed in it.)

It feels all the more appealing given the title of Shakespeare's play featuring Bottom, Oberon, Titania, and Puck - and even more given Bottom's remarks about his encounter with the fairies (which he believes to be a dream) afterwards:

"I have had a most rare vision. I have had a dream past the wit of man to say what dream it was. Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream. Methought I was - there is no man can tell what. Methought I was -and methought I had - but man is but a patched fool if he will offer to say what methought I had. The eye of man hath not heard, the ear of man hath not seen, man's hand is not able to taste, his tongue to conceive, nor his heart to report what my dream was!"

(I find this little speech particularly appealing, for although there's a tone of comical bungling in the eye hearing and ear seeing, etc., yet he has recognized that something truly amazing has happened and is filled with awe and wonder about it - that there's greater depth to this hamming-it-up amateur actor than we might think at first.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Jul 11, 2026 7:49:49 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Though titled Dream, the only plot information provided for the proposed SLG Dark Ages involved its scale and prospective cast of characters:

"Although Greg originally planned otherwise, the next spin-off title after Bad Guys will be Dark Ages. There's a story for that that keeps poking him in the head, so he's placed it ahead of Pendragon. (The story wants told so urgently that he joked he might have to do it in some form even if he can't do it as a comic.) Unlike Bad Guys, Dark Ages will not be a series pilot of sorts, but rather a story that covers a substantial span of time. It will include the Children of Oberon; Othello, Desdemona, and Iago; and Hippolyta. Greg first conceived of the idea three years ago."

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10817
AskGregBot
All things are true. Few things are accurate.
posted @ Sat, Jul 11, 2026 3:01:21 pm EDT from 174.105.254.13

That is interesting Todd. I seem to recall that at the tail end of the SLG days, Greg mentioned that he had a story arc idea about dreams or something like that. I wonder if that is related to the upcoming stories. Though come to think of it, that might've been a story idea for Dark Ages.
Matt
"The eggs in the rookery will soon hatch. They will need guidance..." - Goliath, "Awakening Part Two"
posted @ Sat, Jul 11, 2026 8:24:33 am EDT from 76.212.64.82

A weird piece of timing today. I've a book of Shakespeare quotes for every day of the year (Shakespeare For Every Day of the Year, compiled by Allie Esiri), and today's quote was Mercutio's speech on Queen Mab from "Romeo and Juliet". Yes, right in the middle of a discussion about Queen Mab here in the comment room. (It focused on Mab's role in creating dreams - which makes me wonder whether the Mab of the Gargoyles Universe might visit dreams - or, from what we know of her - nightmares - upon people.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Jul 10, 2026 8:08:16 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Happy (belated) Birthday, Phil (and Alexander)! Crazy to think that Alex would be 30 now!

Power Creep and Stories ahead> I strongly agree with others that while the power of Mab will be colossal, the opposition to her will be very impressive (eventually). I can see Mab making initial moves and winning battles against Oberon and his children fairly easily. Only then will Oberon begin making moves to counter Mab by bringing in allies. Avalon itself may be on Oberon's side. I certainly think Avalon intentionally sent Goliath and Co to various places to awaken heroes and I think those heroes will play a role in Mab's defeat. Ultimately, as I've said before, I hope we see a final battle between Mab and EVERYONE else. All Three Races (and maybe a dragon?!) Heroes from clans and locales around the world. Arthur leading the charge and Cuchullain, Macbeth, gargoyles, werepanthers, the Redemption Squad... JUST EVERYONE.

I totally doubt we'll see Mab versus Goliath mono y mono...
Matt
"The eggs in the rookery will soon hatch. They will need guidance..." - Goliath, "Awakening Part Two"
posted @ Fri, Jul 10, 2026 1:26:14 pm EDT from 76.212.64.82

Happy birthday, Phil! And Alexander Xanatos!
Craig
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 9:42:50 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

If anyone's looking for something to read, Ngozi Ukazu's second graphic novel about the New Gods - this time Orion - is now out! I preordered it and really enjoyed it, it's a great story with great art and a ton of love for Kirby's writing (and his quirks. There's so many bits of dialogue that could be straight from the 70s, it's great.)

Also, happy birthday!
Karrin Blue
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 9:23:54 pm EDT from 70.188.154.198

Happy birthday, Phil!

ALGAE - That reminds me a bit of Greg Weisman's remarks whenever anyone asks him who'd win in a fight.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 7:58:51 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Oh is it your birthday?
Happy Birthday, Phil!
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 4:54:05 pm EDT from 184.23.35.150

I'm reminded of something comicbook veteren Kurt Busiek once said when asked who would win in a fight between Superman and the Silver surfer...

"Whoever the writer wants. We rig the fights."
Algae
'nuff said.
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 10:39:27 am EDT from 194.125.71.88

It brings back Goliath's statement in "The Mirror" about how his strength had rested not in "brute force" but in "true friends".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 9:55:01 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

Happy Birthday to Alexander Xanatos!

According to Greg's timeline, the Gathering took place 30 years ago today.
(The only reason I remember this bit of trivia is that it's also my birthday.)
Phil
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 9:53:34 am EDT from 50.192.123.171

Phil, you make a good point. Our heroes don't have particularly fancy abilities and they haven't gotten more powerful, but they have gotten more allies. And the fight with Oberon is a precedent. In the beginning of the series, it's six gargoyles and Elisa fighting Xanatos, Demona, and some robots. By The Gathering, they're fighting a giant fairy king, but it's not just the seven of them, they have two incredibly well-equipped techno-wizards on their side. And I don't think Oberon's spell prevented him from attacking them (he's been known to renege on promises before). Was this a comment Greg made somewhere? He does try to attack them, after all, he just has so many different things swarming him that he can't really focus. At least, that's how I interpret it. So, no, I disagree with CZ's claim that Oberon was artificially nerfed to make it possible for them to hold their own. Rather, the Clan got powerful by forging new alliances and/or friendships. If Mab is truly a worldwide threat, then calling in the various clans and international heroes to help is a natural escalation. Come to think of it, that applies to their first meeting with Oberon- Titania assisted them in return for their helping her in Walkabout. To the extent that Avalon acts as a sort of providential guiding force, it sent them there first so that Titania would be prepared to assist them later. And then, by extension, maybe it sent them to all of those other locations so that they'd have a large roster of allies when Mab inevitably awakens.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 9, 2026 12:07:23 am EDT from 97.202.126.14

I suspect that we won't get the full answer for a while yet. My suspicion at this point (based partly on what we know about the solicitations - which, as people have pointed out here, aren't always accurate - partly on the structure of past "Gargoyles" stories) is that it'll be several issues before the Manhattan clan encounter Queen Mab herself.

First, the evidence points to their goal in the opening issues being the rescue of Egwardo from Demona, with the "ticking clock" element of the rescue needing to take place before Egwardo hatches. I suspect that the Mab part of the story will be handled much the same way that the Dino Dracon part of the story was handled in the opening issues of "Here in Manhattan" (#1 to #3). There, the gargoyles weren't even aware of Dino himself (just the general trouble in the Dracon vs. Brod feud); the people who were aware of him and discussing him were the other members of the Dracon family and the rival organized crime leaders. I suspect that, similarly, the Mab part of the story in the early issues will be taking place away from Manhattan (Avalon, most likely), with the Avalon clan and Oberon and the other members of the Third Race (except for Puck, of course) being the ones who'll concern themselves with her, but that it'll be a while before Goliath and his clan get involved.

Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if it took a while for Mab to appear on-stage even in the Avalon scenes (unless in flashbacks to her reign and overthrow); I'm wondering whether what we might have for the early issues is Mab herself still imprisoned, but her followers [SPOILER] one of whom might be the Green Knight, though we don't yet know his role in the story [/SPOILER] working out a way to free her, with maybe the Avalon clan battling them and trying to stop them, and maybe eventually bringing the Manhattan clan into it - but with the followers succeeding and, some issues in, releasing Mab in some big "the major adversary is free once again" moment. And it'll be then that the gargoyles will be facing Mab.

We'll have to wait and see, of course.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Jul 8, 2026 12:29:33 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Power Creep> While it's true that the gargoyles have not been upgraded individually, the number of heroes in the world has increased. I'm too lazy to look it up, but somewhere Greg said that a side effect of the World Tour is the creation/revelation of heroes all over the world. So I anticipate that the next big bad won't just be facing off against Goliath and the Manhattan clan. She'll have to deal with multiple clans, dozens of Oberon's Children, medieval heroes from England and Ireland, were-panthers, a space alien, and who knows what else. I think it's going to be epic.
Phil
posted @ Wed, Jul 8, 2026 11:06:31 am EDT from 50.192.123.171

Matthew - "Yes, there is a certain power creep in the foes the Clan has faced, but I'd argue the true stakes and drama were based around why they're fighting rather than an arbitrary power level of the villain."

Ok, but here's the thing: the reason why they're fighting and the power level of the villain are not things that you can so easily separate.

Let's take The Gathering as an example: if Oberon isn't the biggest threat yet then there's no need for Xanatos to play defense for the first time ever, for the Clan to go help him, for Owen to out himself as Puck and for Fox's final outburst - his enormous power level is absolutely fundamental for that story to work, because it's needed to justify the desperate measures taken by everybody.

Or, let's take the Archmage in Avalon: the reason he needed to be upgraded for that story is that the guy from Long Way To Morning couldn't credibly do the stuff that was required of him, and so they went and increased his power level - heck, they dedicated one episode out of three to it.

"Oberon in The Gathering is a terrifying foe, but the real tension is more on how can the Clan save baby Alexander, and the solution isn't defeating Oberon but instead finding a solution beyond kidnapping."

I agree with your general point, but I think you chose the wrong story to illustrate it; you're right that the tension comes from the characters having to find a way to save Alexander, but the way that tension is showcased for three fourths of the episode is through the Manhattan and Xanatos Clans' failed attempts to defeat Oberon in a conventional battle, with only the last five minutes dealing with the idea of finding an alternative solution.

The Mirror is, I believe, a better example of what you're saying: Puck is the most powerful creature the Clan has faced yet, but for three fourths of the episode the focus isn't really on "The Clan vs. Demona & Puck", but rather on "The Clan reacts to all the weird stuff Puck is causing"; then, in the last five minutes, we get a more conventional battle which, while not unimportant, isn't the real core of the episode.
CarumboZabumbo
"Just a minute! I'd like to understand... Did they pass that law that says you can't mind your own business?" Donald Duck
posted @ Wed, Jul 8, 2026 10:09:56 am EDT from 95.236.67.208

Good, looks like the website's working again.

Carumbo> The nature of power creep is something I've covered in other of Greg's works or rather how he generally avoids it with his heroes. It's a fascinating subject because if there's one thing that clear, while the threats his heroes face have shifted in terms of threat, rarely do the heroes rely on matching power with power. When dealing with ensemble casts like in Gargoyles or Young Justice there's a very strong emphasis on teamwork and fighting smarter not harder. Even in Spectacular Spider-Man which only had Spidey as the sole super-powered hero, did he rarely succeed just by overpowering his opponent.

Yes, there is a certain power creep in the foes the Clan has faced, but I'd argue the true stakes and drama were based around why they're fighting rather than an arbitrary power level of the villain. Oberon in The Gathering is a terrifying foe, but the real tension is more on how can the Clan save baby Alexander, and the solution isn't defeating Oberon (though as Greg pointed out, had he been a little weaker, Petro's harpoon could've maimed or killed him), but instead finding a solution beyond kidnapping.

When I was studying stage combat my instructor told us that a good fight or action scene is a story in miniature. And one thing I give kudos to Greg and the team is making each fight or action piece feel unique, and so each conclusion to them has a unique outcome.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Wed, Jul 8, 2026 6:09:18 am EDT from 184.23.35.150

Jurgan - [SPOILER] Yes, what you suppose is an option, and it's a good one: Oberon and his followers deal with the actual battle, giving us a nice reality-bending fight, while the Gargoyles do something behind the scenes to make Mab's defeat possible; basically, the Ill Met approach.

BUT I wouldn't take for granted that that's how it'll go down, because we have multiple examples in Canon of Goliath and the others going against these super-powerful beings and just having a fistfight with them, with Quest being the most recent example. Until we see how the arc actually develops, IMO it's just as likely that Goliath will indeed go head to head with Mab, and Greg will explain it away by either weakening her somehow (maybe Oberon gives the Clan a protective spell so that she can't just vaporize them?) or by making her pull an Archmage ("I could destroy you with a thought..." "Then why don't you?!" "BECAUSE I'M CRAAAAAZY!"). [/SPOILER]

Bottom-line, we'll have to wait and see.
CarumboZabumbo
"Just a minute! I'd like to understand... Did they pass that law that says you can't mind your own business?" Donald Duck
posted @ Wed, Jul 8, 2026 6:00:53 am EDT from 95.236.67.208

Carumbo, I think there is some truth to what you say. I had a somewhat related complaint about the Star Wars prequels and their overreliance on lightsaber fights. I thought characters like Yoda and Palpatine should be above physical combat and use more interesting tactics. Instead, Yoda and Dooku use Force powers for like three seconds and then say "well, I guess it's a tie, so sword-fight time."

Anyway, if we are about to see Queen Mab then I assume it's not going to be the gargoyles alone who fight her. Rather, I expect everyone from Oberon on down to be involved. Goliath will be our point of view character and play a role in the fight, but I don't think he'll go head to head with the big bad.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 7, 2026 12:32:46 pm EDT from 64.106.111.98

Eighth. Hello to you all.

It's been a while since I posted here, and to return in style I've come up with an essay inspired by the solicitation of the next issue of the comics:

THE CURIOUS CASE OF GARGOYLES' POWER CREEP

For those of you who don't know, Power Creep is a trope that happens when the characters of a story progressively become stronger and stronger in the course of the narrative, to the point that their initial power levels begin to look ridiculous by comparison. Classic example: Goku at the beginning of Dragon Ball is strong enough to lift a small car; Goku at the end of Dragon Ball is powerful enough to blow up entire planets.

Now, for the most part, Power Creep hasn't really hit the Clan: the Gargoyles began the series with fairly limited powers - great physical strength and the ability to glide - and that's where most of them still are; power-wise, Goliath from the first episode is indistinguishable from current Goliath, and the same goes for Hudson, Broadway, Lex and Bronx. Their numbers have grown, Brooklyn has received a bit of an upgrade through TimeDancer and Coldfire can do a few things none of the others can do, but the result is a slightly stronger Clan, not an enormously more powerful one. This is all fine.

But what makes Gargoyles' Power Creep curious is that, while the heroes haven't grown in strength, the villains sure have: back in Season 1, the Clan had to deal with a billionaire in a battle suit and his robots, a bunch of canine-themed mercenaries, a mobster, an immortal human warrior with advanced weaponry and a cybernetic zombie with a laser - all dangerous threats, don't get me wrong, but threats you could conceivably see the Gargoyles facing and defeating.

(No, I haven't forgotten about Demona; she's a particular case, and will get her own section later on.)

Things are very different at the moment, because nowadays Greg is having the Clan fight against things like pagan gods, ultra-powerful sorcerers and the literal King of Fairies - which creates weird situations where the Gargoyles are obviously outmatched and their enemies have to be constantly weakened to allow them to win; let's see a few major examples:

1)Puck in The Mirror: powerful enough to kill all the inhabitants of New York with a single spell - BUT he doesn't want to follow Demona's orders, so he just has some fun turning everybody into everybody else.
2)The Archmage in Avalon: has managed to gain possession of the Three Keys to Power and could probably win the Battle of Avalon on his own - BUT when he faces Goliath he only uses the most vanilla spells imaginable because he doesn't want to kill him too quickly ("I could destroy you with a word..." "Then why don't you?!" "BECAUSE I'M HAVING TOO MUCH FUN!").
3)Oberon in Ill Met by Moonlight: is ready to end the episode in five minutes by having Avalon literally eat the heroes - BUT Titania convinces him to give them a fighting chance and reduces his powers to standard Third Race levels.
4)Oberon again in The Gathering: is now at full power and should be unstoppable - BUT oops, it turns out that when he made the Avalon Clan immune to his magic he inadvertently did the same with the Manhattan Clan, so rather than vaporizing them with a random thought he's limited to physical or indirect attacks.
5)Demona in general, but especially in Quest: she's a weird case because, in theory, she could wield some powerful magic every time she appears - she has had over a thousand years to train and accumulate powerful artifacts in that townhouse of hers - BUT in practice she pretty much never does; she uses bazookas and particle weapons like there's no tomorrow, but barely any fighting spells. This culminated in Quest, where she united the new Three Keys to Power and became powerful enough to hypnotize the entire planet - BUT during the actual fight with the Clan the only spells she used were "Lightning" and "Shield"; uh, how scary, she's about as powerful as fourth-year Hermione Granger.

Now, all of these things are fine in a vacuum (well, not so much the Demona one) - but when you take them all together you end up with a weird trend that engenders a question: "Greg, why do you keep putting the Clan against these uber-powerful foes if you then have to nerf them to give our heroes a fighting chance?"

What has any of this to do with the next issue of the comics? Well, like most people here I too believe [SPOILER] the "ancient, all-powerful evil" from the solicitation to be Queen Mab - and even if it isn't we know she'll have to appear at some point - and I wonder: what are the Gargoyles supposed to do against her? This is an entity that Greg has described as 1)completely crazy, 2)an embodiment of chaos and 3)the most powerful member of the Third Race; she's supposed to be so above and beyond the Clan that imagining a fight between them sounds ludicrous, tantamount to imagining a fight between Daredevil and Galactus.

With this I don't mean to imply that the next arc is doomed to be bad; what I'm saying is that the writing will need to be really clever to work around Mab's supposed immense power level; the best-case scenario would probably be similar to Ill Met, with the actual battle against Mab being portrayed as hopeless while the real solution is being readied behind the scenes - while the worst-case scenario would be akin to Queen of All She Surveys, with Mab losing because she decided to fight in the worst way imaginable for no reason whatsoever. Historically, Gargoyles has examples of both things happening, and it's hard to predict on which side of the scale the next arc will fall. [/SPOILER]

That's it for me - hopefully I've given you some food for thought. Do you agree or disagree with my assessment?
CarumboZabumbo
"Just a minute! I'd like to understand... Did they pass that law that says you can't mind your own business?" Donald Duck
posted @ Tue, Jul 7, 2026 8:33:07 am EDT from 79.42.70.71

Seventh on the seventh!

Craig> Thanks for teaching a new word, Semiquincentennial. That's not one you get to use very often.


On the subject of the latest My Adventures with Superman, [SPOILER] Yeah, the comparisons between Impulse/Bart Allen and Superboy/Jon Kent are pretty similar. Both fast-paced, near hyperactive goofs with a love of food that quickly latch themselves to their families and hide their true seriousness because tragedy and death are right around the corner. Heck, the whole future he comes from harkens back to the Reach Occupation from YJ.

There is kind of a pattern: Young Justice, MAWS, Dragon Ball Z. The whole time-traveling kid from the future coming back from a world destroyed by cyborgs. Feels like some folks decided to do their own take on The Terminator. [/SPOILER]
Matthew the Fedora Guy
The world I love, the tears I drop to be part of the wave, can't stop...
posted @ Tue, Jul 7, 2026 2:44:27 am EDT from 184.23.35.150

Sixth.
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Mon, Jul 6, 2026 6:22:08 pm EDT from 68.2.64.232

Fifth.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 6, 2026 5:04:29 pm EDT from 108.69.72.60

Fourth!
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jul 6, 2026 2:37:15 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Third
Phil
posted @ Mon, Jul 6, 2026 9:48:01 am EDT from 50.192.123.171

Second!
Matt
"The eggs in the rookery will soon hatch. They will need guidance..." - Goliath, "Awakening Part Two"
posted @ Mon, Jul 6, 2026 9:46:03 am EDT from 76.212.64.82

First.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jul 6, 2026 8:56:12 am EDT from 68.99.93.213