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How big was Demonaâs Clan by the Battle of Rathveramoen?
I've never counted. But it was a decent size. Less than 40 gargoyles, but not a lot less.
I have looked everywhere and can not find the answer... I've learned a few from this site and two more elsewhere, but is there a complete list of "placeholder" or "script" names for the unnamed gargoyles in the show? If not, how can I research this better in order to make one? I would love to know all of Demona's clan, the rest of the Ishimura Clan, etc. Thank you for your time and bless you for making this show. Once a fan, always a fan! #stillgargoyles
For Demona's clan: https://gargwiki.net/Demona%27s_Clan
I don't think I do have placeholder or script names for the unnamed members of the Ishimura Clan.
1. You said that Demona would have 4 or 5 great loves total. Does that number include the one-sided romantic relationships she's been in? Like the Paris romance with Macbeth and her romance with Thailog, in which only one partner genuinely loved the other.
2. You said that Demona's clan, between 1040 and 1057, often slept at Castle Moray but never all at once. What was the reason for that? Was Demona's distrust of humans a factor?
2b. What was Demona's primary residence during that time?
3. When Demona is human during the day, does she experience any psychological changes due to her being fully human? The human hormones, instincts, etc... do they affect her perceptions/interests/attractions in any way?
4. Between 1040 and 1057, did Demona have anyone other than Macbeth, human or gargoyle, that she was friends with? Was there anyone as close or closer to her than him?
Thank you. :)
1. I don't think I said that. Can you give me a reference? I definitely wouldn't count what we've seen of either Macbeth or Thailog in Paris.
2. Yes.
2b. Castle Moray.
3. Not that she'd acknowledge.
4. No spoilers.
In Enter MacBeth, MacBeth refers to Demona as the Gargoyles' queen. But wouldn't she or even someone of her clan from the past have told him a bit about Gargoyles and their clans and that they didn't have kings or queens? Or did she leave him to believe she was their queen?
I think you're taking his statement too literally. He saw her as the leader of the gargoyles, which she was during the key moment of his natural life. He views leaders in terms of kings and queens, so used that language. (Also as a chess metaphor, I seem to recall.) But he wasn't speaking or thinking about her this way literally.
How many gargoyles lived in the Wyvern Clan? Including Demona's Clan and Avalon Clan.
You can't include those two clans, because most weren't ever part of the Wyvern Clan, unless you count eggs. The Wyvern Clan had about 40 gargoyles in it after the Wyvern Split Clan split off.
Did Demona and her clan sleep at Castle Moray during the time she was allied with Macbeth?
Often. Though never the entire clan at any one time.
So, since Demona led her own clan for at least sixty years, 998 was a hatching year (assuming any of these gargoyles had surviving eggs), so was 1018, and 1038.
While I know she didn't take a mate and thus didn't lay any new eggs for 1018 an 1038, was she a rookery mother to either of these generations of eggs? Or is Angela the first child she ever gave a damn about.
No timeline available to me on this Southwest flight. Sorry.
So was Demona's clan all in one place when they were destroyed by Canmore? Given that Demona had previously split them in cells to ensure their survival that makes little sense. Couldn't a handful of them survived?
Did Canmore say he smashed them while they slept, or did he just say that he killed them all? I can't remember at the moment.
Was it ever planned to reveal more information about the "Blue Beaked Gargoyle" from Demonas Clan in CoS?
Eventually.
Hey Greg!
Richard Jackson writes...
Hi Greg,
I noticed in your memo for City of Stone that you placed Demona's clan living in caves at Lunfanan Hill in 1020 and 1040. Is that where that cell lived? http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=134
Greg responds...
Canon-in-training.
Response recorded on August 26, 2011
I was wondering how long before 1020 that Demona's Clan, or at least the cell of it that consisted of "Second", "Kermit" and the other gargoyles who had hatched at Wyvern had been living at Lunfanan Hill. When Brooklyn seeks them out in 997, were the Lunfanan Caves the ones they lived in at that time?
Also, did Demona have a name for this cell (like calling the massacred gargoyles the Shruiglea Cell)? I think on GargWiki we are either calling it the Wyvern Cell or the Lunfanan Cell (which prompted me to ask my first question).
Just trying to get some facts straight for the Wiki. Thanks!
She wouldn't call it the Wyvern Cell. Maybe the Lunfanan Cell.
I don't know that I've broken down exactly when each cell moved where, but I think Lunfanan is a good bet for Second and Kermit, etc., even early on.
Still, cannon-in-training.
Hi Greg,
I noticed in your memo for City of Stone that you placed Demona's clan living in caves at Lunfanan Hill in 1020 and 1040. Is that where that cell lived? http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=134
Canon-in-training.
Hi Greg. You have provided the names, hatched dates, and original clan of the gargoyles seen in Demona's clan in CoS and CB2 except for the blue beaked gargoyle. Could you provide the same for him?
No.
1. Why did you give the moniker of "True" to Hudson's third biological child? Where did the name come from?
2. In what series' or spin-offs would we see True again?
3. Aside from Hudson, were any of True and "Kermit"'s rookery parents still alive as of 997?
4. Where did True and Kermit go during the Battle of Rathveramoen? Were there other gargoyles/beasts of similiar age among other cells of Demona's Clan?
5. Do you consider the cell that True belonged to to be called the Wyvern Cell or would you call it something else? Was this the cell that Demona spent most her time with?
Thanks, Greg!
1a. It seemed appropriate.
1b. My twisted mind.
2. Dark Ages.
3. Potentially.
4a. Into hiding.
4b. Yes.
5a. I doubt it was called that, since it wasn't located at Wyvern. But I understand how that's a useful and sensible place-holder for the time being. And, no, I haven't set a specific location for it yet.
5b. Yes.
Just to be clear for the sake of the GargWiki,
The six gargoyles and two beasts that Demona initially talks to in "Tyrants", they are all originally from the Wyvern Clan, right? Meaning they all hatched at Wyvern, moved away when the Wyvern Clan split and eventually all joined Demona's Clan as a single cell. Is that right?
And I believe you said this at the Gathering, but I want to clarify something else along these lines: I think you said that each cell was divided up by location and that each cell had its origins with a specific clan. Is that right?
1. Yes.
2. No. The cells are small enough, that multiple cells might have their origins with the same clan. And on the other hands, some individual cells might be a mix of gargoyles and beasts from multiple clans.
====SPOILERS FROM CLAN-BUILDING 2====
A lot of new faces were seen in Demona's clan in CB2 - and it sounds like some interesting facts were given out about the whole clan's relationships to Wyvern clan members during this last Gathering. So a couple questions:
1) Were all of the Gargates seen in the cell that Demona's Second/True/etc were part of from the Wyvern Split clan?
2) What year were these Gargates born in?
a - Demona's Second's Mate/Sacrifice
b - "Bro" the red Gargoyle Brooklyn spoke with.
c - Brooklyn's bioBrother, seen behind Brook and "Bro"
d - the little Green gargoyle standing next to True.
e - Bronx's parents
3) Was Sacrifice related biologically to any other Gargoyle we've seen from Wyvern? If so which?
4) The little Blue Gargoyle from City of Stone was not seen here (that I found). Where was he?
1. Yes.
2.
a. 918.
b. 958.
c. 938.
d. 978
e. 898
3. Don't know.
4. Another cell, probably.
Before I submit my reviews, I'm actually going to wait till Todd reads it out of respect...
The new gargoyles that appear in 10, 11, and 12. I would like to set up GargWiki entries for them. Do they have "script names" like Othello, Desdemona, and Iago did?
Yes, but I think you have them by now.
Hi Greg. I have a question about Demona's clan. When she was gathering her clan (before and after Mcbeth became King), did any of the gargoyles seek her out to join the clan or did Demona find them all? Also, were any of the gargoyles that joined Demona's clan part of a small group or were they all solitary. Thanks.
All of the above.
My question is in the City of Stone episodes during the Flashbacks with Macbeth and Demona. Demona is shown having her own little clan but where did the other Gargoyles come from if Princess Katharine and The Magus take all the eggs to Avalon?
They came from other Scottish clans, including a clan that had relatively recently spun off from the Wyvern Clan.
in the episode the stone city when demona thinks of her past and she had a diferent clan. where did she find them and what happen to the rest of their clan. THANKS
HUGE FAN!
She scoured up survivors from around Scotland. They were massacred by Canmore's forces.
Hi Greg. Great work on the new series. Can't wait to see Bad Guys. Anyway, I checked the archives and couldn't find a answer to my question. Was Demona the only member of her clan to have a name when she was allied with Macbeth during his reign as King of Scotland? After all, she said that she liked her new name, so did any other members get names? Thanks.
She was pretty much the only one.
Hi Greg. I have a question about Demona's clan that she gathered after the massacre at Wyvern. In the archives, you said that that clan had at most 20 members and most were male. You also said that you were not sure if they had a rookery. But did they have any gargoyle beasts? Thanks.
I didn't see any, but maybe.
Was Demona close to any of her rookery siblings?
Was Demona close to any of her clan members at Moray?
1. Yes.
2. I'm not sure she let herself get to close... but she's not a wizard at self-control either.
What was Demona's relationship with the people of Moray castle like? At Macbeth's coronation, those that were present cheered her on. How did they treat her over the next 17 years, and how did she react?
Generally, pretty well. But there was probably some occasional tension.
First, of all, I apoligize in advance if this question has ever been asked, but I looked through the archives and wasn't sure where I could find out if the question had already been asked. It applies to a gargoyle that only appeared briefly in a flashback and then in the background as part of the Avalon Clan.
My question applies to a certain gargoyle tht was part of Demona's group during the 'City of Stone' flashbacks. He has horns and wears a metal shoulder pad that singles him out among the other members of Demona's survivors. I see a gargoyle with a very similar appearance (horns and shoulder pad) as part of the Avalon Clan (Avalon Part III) just before the final attack on Archmage and his allies.
My question is, is this supposed to be the same gargoyle? I've got a few theories about their connection. One is that somehow this gargoyle was taken to Avalon sometime during one of Tom's visits to check on Goliath's clan, though the dates wouldn't match (it would have been 50 years after the spell was cast, not 100 years, Tom's normal check-in period). Another is that it was simply an accident and you didn't mean for thgis random gargoyle to appear in the background of the Avalon Clan. I'm sure it was just a goof, but if it was intentional, then it sounds like an interesting story, especially if the armpad gargoyle found out Angela was Demona's daughter and told her about his former leader.
Either way, I hope you answer my question and I hope I didn't type my question incorrectly (according to the guidelines) and there isn't any problem answering it.
Greg Weisman says:
Which answer do you want? Obviously, we reused some model sheets, but it's also possible that a gargoyle who once visited or lived in Wyvern was part of Demona's gathered clan. That gargoyle mated with a female gargoyle at Wyvern, resulting in an egg that grew up looking remarkably similar to his biological father. Uh, how's that?
Demona's Clan
1. At its highest population (which i'm assuming was in 1057, right before Canmore killed the Clan) how large was Demona's Moray Clan? Was it what you consider a "full Clan"? Was it larger than the Wyvern Clan in 994 AD?
2. We know that the Wyvern Clan split sometime after the last rookery of eggs was laid in 988 AD and that the split-Clan was already destroyed by the time Demona encounters some of its remnants in "City of Stone", so when was this spin-off Wyvern Clan destroyed?
3. Have you figured out what happened to the spin-off Wyvern Clan after the left Wyvern? Have you thought about their story at all? We know that Demona's Second in "City of Stone" belonged to this Clan, have you thought of his story before he met up with Demona? Was this Clan destroyed by humans also?
4. When Canmore destroyed Demona's Clan in 1057 there was probably a rookery of eggs that were to hatch in 1058. Did Canmore destroy these also?
5. When Demona and the other rouge gargoyles came together to make a Clan, how was it decided that Demona should be the Leader?
1. No, it was rather skimpy. Twenty gargs at the most, and most of them adult males.
2. I'm not tying myself down to a date with that yet.
3. I do have some ideas on this, but they're not fully fleshed out in my head, so I'm not going to go into them now.
4. I'm not sure Demona's nomadic clan (cobbled from remnant survivors of multiple other Scottish clans) had any eggs.
5. "Rouge Gargoyles"? As opposed to say, "Blush Gargoyles"? Yeah, yeah, I know it's just a typo. But it's a good one. Demona, as I think you can imagine, ASSERTED her leadership... physically. Also, she gathered the "clan". It didn't just come together.
some questions about Demona's "City of Stone Clan":
1. did Demona know any of them before the Wyvern Massacre?
2. were any of them once members of the Wyvern Clan?
3. were any of them once members of the clan that seperated from the Wyvern Clan?
4. were any of them banished gargoyles?
5. did you have any plans (in Gargoyles, or Dark Ages maybe) for showing where these gargs came from? i remember watching City of Stone for the first ime and wondering if i'd forgotten something from Awakenings or a flashback cuz one second they were the last of their kind and the next we found another group of them. kinda confused me...
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Probably.
5. The group that was the "last of their kind" (which also turned out not to be true) in "Awakening" were the six survivors who woke up in Manhattan in 1994. Nobody in 994 ever said that the Wyvern clan were the last of their kind.
And as with most things, given enough episodes I would have eventually dealt with just about EVERYTHING.
hey greg i have been wondering about demona lately so here are my questions
1.In the episode city of stone why did't demona stay in wyvern was in it much safer then in a cave or it it would bring to much painful memories
2.I notice that in city of stone in the cave where demona and her clan lived there was a beach behide it so i am wondering since castle wyvern was next to a beach was the cave near wyvern
3.does demona approve of angla's relationship with broadway
4. in vows why did't demona use the phenoix gate to stop
the death of her clan
1. The phrase "The Horror. The Horror." comes to mind.
2. I don't recall a beach behind that cave, and I always thought of that one being more interior to Scotland. But in any case, no, it wasn't Wyvern.
3. Well, as of when I left the show, Demona didn't know about Angela's relationship with Broadway. Only Angela, Broadway and Brooklyn knew. But assuming she found out, I think she'd have mixed feelings. Broadway is a Goliath loyalist, for starters.
4. A careful viewing would show she couldn't. If you're asking why she didn't try, I think one answer is that she did. Not by going back to the daylight hours of the massacre, when she couldn't have done anything anyway, but by going back to a point when her past self might -- had time travel worked that way -- have been able to change everything from that point forward.
In "City of Stone" part I and II, Demona had six gargoyles in her clan, including herself, and no female except herself. But in part III and IV there are clearly more.
1) Did her clan have any rookeries?
2) Where did they find the females?
3) Did Demona lay any eggs?
You're assuming that in every scene you were always seeing ALL the gargoyles in the clan. You weren't.
3. No.
What clan did demona link up with after Goliath and the others were frozen? When she lead them to stealing food. In "City of Stone".
It was a remnant of multiple decimated Scotish clans.
i was wondering some things about Demona's second from "City of Stone" the rust-colored garg with the breastplate:
1. you've said before that the almost identical garg on Avalon is his son, so he was part of the Wyvern clan until it split, right? were all the new gargs in "City of Stone" from that clan?
2. was he from Goliath and Demona's generation or an older one? was he Demona's rookery brother?
3. you hadn't thought of a behind the screen name for him have you? if so, do tell...
4. did he ever have a romantic interest in Demona?
5. did he survive Canmore's massacre of Demona's clan?
6. would we ever see him developed more in one of the spin-offs? Dark Ages maybe?
1. No.
2. Probably not.
3. He had no name.
4. Maybe briefly. But I don't think that lasted.
5. No.
6. Yes.