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In response to LSZ's many posts: i think what she wants to know is what some of the Faes' personify. Like how the Greek Olympians each personified (though how well is up for grabs) various attributes or crafts; Athena personified wisdom and defensive warfare, Ares war, Appollo truth and the arts. In the Garg's universe, Anubis clearly personifies death.
LSZ, you can correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that's what she means.
I thought that too at first, but then some of LSZ's questions didn't seem to fit that idea. Anyway, I'm not going to run down a list of every mythological being and list "affiliations" or "connections" or whatever it is we're talking about. Use common sense and do a bit of research and nine times out of ten, you'll get the answer without me.
Ok, first of all; most of the Gargoyles villains can be counted as amorals(like Xanatos), grays(Macbeth), insane-sufferers(Demona), and genuinely evil/malicious and remorseless folks like Proteus and perhaps Jackal and Hyena.
All of them can be, to some extent, perhaps with the exception of Macbeth, considered evil or selfishly uncaring. Still, Oberon cannot be considered evil; he is horribly arrogant, but he has his own sense of nobility.
But is Mab evil? Is she Chaos in the dark trickster manner of Raven and presumably Loki? Is she just a more petty version of Oberon? Is she genuinely malicious and nasty ala Hakon and Proteus? Is she gray-but-still-dark like Duval?
So what is Mab?
1) What is her moral worth in comparison to Oberon?
2) What is she compared to the other Gargoyles villain-types?
She's MAD, I tell you, MAD, MAD! BWAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAAAA
1. LSZ, haven't you learned by now that I REFUSE to QUANTIFY stuff for you?
2. See above.
1) Did Oberon have any help in defeating Mab?
2) Did Oberon use trickery?
1. Yes.
2. Some.
Hmm. Ok, good answer to the iron question, I'll admit. Still, is there any Fae Science in a Gargoyle-Science-esque answer on why iron harms the fae?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
You looking for chemical reactions?
If the humans of (time of Future Gargoyle series) know 'a lot' about the origins of the New Olympians, do they know that the fae are real?
Largely, no.
But again, I'd prefer if everyone held off asking anymore questions about what WAS Gargoyles 2158 until I make the announcement regarding it's revamping. Watch for it at this site.
I thought that I'd give my own comments here on the Weird Sisters as portrayed in "City of Stone" and "Avalon".
My own reason for being bothered by the change in the Sisters' portrayal between these two stories wasn't based on the fact that in "Avalon" they were working for the Archmage. What bothered me rather was the apparent change in their moral character. In "City of Stone", they talk about how revenge is wrong and every life is precious. In "Avalon", they're vengeful and consider the lives of mortals meaningless, and display this attitude even before they meet the Archmage, when they try to turn the humans into owls. They underwent what looked almost like a 180 degree turn around that I found difficult to comprehend.
The best that I could come up with as an explanation was that in "City of Stone", they didn't want Macbeth and Demona to kill each other since they needed them for the assault on Avalon, and were just doing the usual "villain speaking of virtue to achieve his or her own goals" (kind of like Shakespeare's Iago telling Othello to beware of jealousy even while secretly and deliberately sowing the seeds of jealousy in him). But while I could accept that with the simple overall statements, I found it hard to apply that to the questions that they were putting to Macbeth and Demona at the end of "City of Stone Part Four". The insight that they showed in the lives of Demona and Macbeth in speaking those questions seems to me something that one just can't fake, that would be beyond the abilities of mere clever hypocrites. That's the big reason why I have a problem with reconciling the Sisters' behavior in the different episodes.
Sure, but as I've said before, there are wheels within wheels, particularly with the Sisters who represent a lot of triple goddesses and have different aspects.
Remember: All things are true.
They are hypocrites.
But it's also not that simple.
A question about Odin's quest to regain his eye in "Eye of the Storm"? Wouldn't this be, technically, a reneging on his deal with Mimir? After all, Odin did voluntarily surrender the eye for a drink from Mimir's well, so that would mean that it was no longer his property, that he had signed it away. (Of course, Mimir probably is no longer in a position to protest this, given that you've indicated in the past here that his beheading by the Vanir took place in the Gargoyles Universe, but I can't help wondering about this issue anyway).
Mimir's long gone. Think of it as salvage. With Odin having a better claim than most, wouldn't you say?
You mentioned that Oberon's power class is Power, and Anubus and the Banshee are connected to Death and Mab Power and Chaos.
Are there any other classes that Fay are connected to that you can state.
Oh, is that what all that "connectivity" stuff was that LSZ was talking about?
But I can't believe I said "Oberon's power class is Power." Power class is power. That sounds like gibberish to me.
Anyway, I have no desire to go through a list of all the Children that we know and "Classify" them. Most of them are fairly clear anyway.
1) Do immortality spells ala Demona and Macbeth's work on other fae?
2) How do the Death-gods in general view immortality?
3) How does Anubis in particular view immortality?
1. Huh?
2. I don't know how to answer this question.
3. In what sense?
Why haven't any fae ever gone to space before? Don't they have curiousity about what's out there?
Why haven't you gone? Aren't you curious?
1) What happens when one Death-god is destroyed?
2) You said the spell in GRIEF put Death itself into stasis; did this apply only to Earth or to the entire universe?
3) Since you said that if all the Death-gods were destroyed, something or other will arise to take their place..this seems to imply that the Death-gods are very neccessary to the running of the universe..well, at least Earth's area. So what were things like BEFORE the fae evolved? What entity or entities had a connection to the process of Death then? Was the act of dying any different pre-fae?
1. Depends.
2. Earth.
3. Not substantially.
1.What did titania whisper into fox's ear at he end of the gathering part2
2.who rules after oberon
3. is fox the next queen of avalon
4. does titania know who the ruler of avalon will be after oberon's demise.
5. when does titania die.
6. how does titania die
7. does alexander, xanatos's child, ever become ruler of avalon.
8.odin is king of the gods in norse myth, and oberon is king in hte scottish/irish myth...so why does oberon ruler over odin?
9.how did oberon dfeat mab
10. why did oberon battle mab
11. who is merlin's mother, i know she is human, but who she
12. did merlin's mom know she had a son to oberon, or didn't oberon tell her
13. does foxes, dad...i say foxes dad because i dont know how to spell his name, well does he know that foxes mom is titania?
14. when oberon made everyone sleep in gathering part 1 and 2, why is foxes dad and vogel not asleep? was this titania's doing
1. Do you think they'll be wondering about this in Ask Greg four years from now?
2. Who says there is an after?
3. Who says there is a next?
4. Who says there's a demise?
5. Who says she does?
6. See 5.
7. No.
8. You're premise is incorrect. Oberon is not king of the gods in Scotish/Irish myth. He's king of the fair folk. There's a difference.
9. That's an epic story.
10. That's part of the above mentioned epic story.
11. A welsh noblewoman.
12. Huh?
13. Yes. Which doesn't mean he's dealt with it.
14. No. Renard and Vogel put an energy field around the bridge of Fortress-II similar to the field that surrounded the Eyrie.
You know it occurs to me that these questions covered multiple unrelated topics. That's a no-no. Next time I'll get tough on you.
1.What is the total plan of the wierd sisters for macbeth and demona?
2. Does titania know what the wierd sisters do?
1. Please don't ask questions that would require novel-length responses. This isn't the format for that.
2. What do you mean?
The fae weren't exisiting during the dinosaurs
1. when did they start to exist
2.how did they come to exist
1. Upon Earth's creation -- to answer your question literally.
2. How does anything?
1. if a human killed oberon, does he become ruler of the third race
2. who kills oberon
3. how does oberon die
1. No.
2. What do you mean?
3. Who says he does?
1. I know this queston has been touched upon before but I was wondering how was it that the ringing of an iron bell could bring Oberon to his knees and almost kill him (even after he had been given back his full powers) and yet the iron harpoon in the chest couldn't hack it?
2. Also, near the end of that episode, Oberon was severely drained of his power (with the old man visage), but then for no apparent reason returns to his normal self. What happened which enabled him to return to his usual self?
Thanks. I appreciate any answers given.
1. One attacked his corporeal form. Which was injured, but he was given TIME (while Puck droned on) to recover. The bell made a more direct attack to his nervous system. Preventing him from recovering, had they kept ringing it. You'll notice that once they stopped ringing it, he recovered very quickly. Whereas once he removed the harpoon, it still took minutes for him to regain his normal form.
2. He had time and the power to heal.
Why changelings? I mean: why would fay exchange their children for human ones? I am not sure it was ever that clear in the real myths but what's the reason in the Gargoyles universe?
Everything is case-by case. There isn't one answer.
After reading LSZ's comments on the use of Norse mythology in "Gargoyles" (particularly with Odin) and your responses to them, I thought that I'd weigh in with my own thoughts on Odin as portrayed in the Gargoyles Universe.
As something of a Norse mythology buff (and, like you, I very much enjoyed the d'Aulaire book which was my big introduction to the Norse myths), I enjoyed Odin's showing up in "Gargoyles". The one detail that bothered me in "Eye of the Storm", though, I confess, was when both Odin and Goliath in his "Eye of Odin" form were wearing horned helmets. This was because I'd read that the Vikings never actually wore those kinds of helmets, and, even more significantly, Hakon and his Vikings in "Awakening" weren't portrayed as wearing horned helmets but the sort of outfits that Vikings wore in actual history. So I felt a bit disturbed by the horned helmets in "Eye of the Storm", on the grounds of "They know better, because of how they drew Hakon and his followers."
Admittedly, since Odin and the "Odinized" Goliath weren't human flesh-and-blood Norsemen like Hakon, but fantasy beings, maybe the horned helmet concept does work for them, in that their appearance would be reflecting the popular imagination view of Vikings.
Well, I suppose you're right. But maybe that's where the popular concept of horned helmets camed from. Not from the actual vikings, but from the Norse "gods" themselves. Or, heck, maybe from horned Gargoyles, for that matter.
I also won't deny that our Odin was uncomfortably Kirbyesque. Don't get me wrong, I like the design, and I wouldn't change it now. But I wish we had done something a little more original. I guess I didn't mind so much because he spent half his time as a Polar Bear or as an Old Man with that cool cloak.
Hi Greg,
A belated personal reaction to THE MIRROR. In the past, you've seemed curious as to how things came off to us. Did we get the implication here, or did we correctly interpret there. Well, here's something that really threw me initially. When Goliath describes the Third Race, he uses a lot of different nouns and adjectives. At first, I thought this new "Third Race" was going to be a contrived method of stuffing all other creatures of myth and fantasy into the series, in addition to the gargoyles, without having to give each one a unique background and history. In this way, you could bring in a unicorn, a minatour, an elf or an ogre, and you wouldn't have to justify them existing as individual species like the gargs, because they're conveniently blanket-labelled as the "Third Race." In short, I thought Goliath was describing a people more akin to the New Olympians, a collective, rather than a coherent species. Elisa's response was most responsible for cementing my conclusion, when she said, "Shapeshifters, elves, fairies, you mean they're real?" It sounds a lot like Elisa's interpretation of Goliath's speech was the same as mine.
As you could imagine, I felt quite betrayed and outraged. To forge such a unique, well-shaped universe and then just lazilly toss in everything else as if you said, "Well, on second thought..."
This wasn't the case, and the Third Race wound up being a wonderful addition to the series. But it took me a while to realize that. :)
On the other hand, it kinda was the case... We just executed it better than you thought we would.
Do the smith-gods of various pantheons possess the iron-resistance?
I don't think so. (It's not like a super-power, o.k.?)
Does Oberon's father share his iron-resistance?
I don't know much about dear old dad yet.
Did any of the fae who got worshipped actually believe they were gods?
Probably.
1) Are there any faelike beings out there in space then, if such evolution on other worlds is possible?
2) Are any evolutionary processes to start such beings beginning or halfway through or in the final stages off-Earth?
3) Are any of the three races in the Space-Spawn War on similar evolutionary lines to the fae?
1. Technically, fae are earth natives. I'm not ruling out the possibility of fae-like beings in space. Anymore than I'm ruling out the possibility of humanoids in space. But you get the idea...
2. See 1.
3. No.
As a comment to one of LSZ's posts> I'm not that certain that Ra would be the leader of the Egyptian pantheon - I think that in the myths the leadership seems to have passed from Ra to Osiris and finally to Horus the Younger when Osiris was murdered...
I'm not gonna comment on that now.
Who's the fae nearest in power to Titania, not counting fae more powerful than she is in raw force(Oberon, Mab)?
I'm not big at quantifying things. (Haven't you and I established that in the past?)
Are the fae leaders of the pantheons(Odin, Ra, Zeus) etc always the most powerful of that group?
Generally.
Yea! I got one!
Did Ragnarok occur or was even part of the Oberon-Mab war?
Is this one question or two?
I apologize, LSZ, but you have a real knack for asking questions that I just don't get.
I think this was also lost in the queue, so
1) What would happen to Oberon when Mab returns?
2) Would Mab be around by 2158?
3) What would happen to Mab by 2158?
4) At what level of maturity would Oberon and Titania's children be by 2158?
1. He will not go quietly.
2. Can't say.
3. Can't say.
4. Can't say.
Just what is it that makes Mab and Oberon so powerful?
Magic.
Are any fae connected to bacteria or any other micro-organisms?
asdfjkl;
1) Were the heads of various pantheons(Odin, Ra, etc) also connected to the ruling class?
2) What were Thor and Loki connected to?
3) What connection is there between Titania and the Titans?
Somebody stop this person, please...
another silly question, but..are any fae connected to iron?
They don't much care for iron.
This is probably a silly question, but are there any single entities in the universe more powerful than Mab?
Probably. No matter how big you are there's always someone bigger.
Are any fae connected to gravity?
2) To science?
3) To one race or type of human or gargoyle?
1. What does that mean?
2. Huh?
3. O.K. I didn't get this question four posts ago.
Oberon's Children questions (maybe):
1. Are beings such as gnomes, leprechauns, brownies, etc. fay? If so, why is there such a difference in power between them and someone like Odin?
2. Are djinn/jinn/genies (or however one prefers to spell it) members of the third race?
3. We know there have been human/fay hybrids produced in the Gargoyles Universe, but have any gargoyle/fay hybrids ever been produced?
1. Why does Tiger Woods play golf better than the rest of the planet?
2. Sure.
3. Maybe.
During the World Tour, Goliath and Co. ran into many members of the Third Race and screwed up their plans. Did Oberon find about about that? I was just trying to figure out if he'd find it amusing or if he'd be irritated. From his point of view, the gargoyles had already invaded his island--now these four puny mortals were besting his powerful children? I don't think he'd take that lightly, but maybe I'm wrong. What do you think?
I don't think anyone went into very specific details. Kinda embarrassing, and runs the risk that Oberon might say: "Were you breaking my non-interference edict?"
1) Is it possible for a fae to have a connection to a single or at least a type of species?
2) If so, is Anansi connected to spiders?
3) Raven ravens?
4) Coyote coyotes?
5) Finally, is it possible and are there any fae that are connected to gargoyles or humans as a species?
ugh
But wait! This sounds like it makes sense.
1. I'm not sure I get it but i think the answer is yes.
2. Yes, obviously.
3. YES!
4. YES!
5. That isn't the idea. Spiders are Anansi's familiars. You don't usually recruit familiars from sentient species. Those are called apprentices or flunkies.
There! Did I break the codeword?!
What connections are the most common among the fae?
Back with those 'connections'.
Did I use this word in some context, cuz I don't have a clue what you mean.
Are any of the fae 'gods' we've seen so far like Anubis or Odin older than Oberon?
Maybe.
1) How old is Mab?
2) How old was Mab when Oberon was born?
3) How old is Oberon?
4) Titania?
1. Old.
2. Old.
3. Old.
4. Old.
What was Puck's position during the Mab-Oberon war, if he was even around at the time?
Working for Oberon.
1) If a fae's true form-appearance is determined by the true forms of its parents, is their connection also determined or influenced by the connection of its parents?
2) What is Oberon and Titania's two kids' connections?
Still don't see what you're getting at here.
Must all fae have a connection?
Still not getting "connection".
1) Does Anansi possess any connections besides trickster?
2) Raven?
3) Coyote?
4) Does Anubis have any connection besides death?
5) Is it common for Death-gods to be connected solely to Death?
6) Does Merlin have any connection?
Oh, I get it. (Maybe.)
1. He's part of an African pantheon.
2. Ditto for North America.
3. Ditto for Southwestern America.
4. Egyptian.
5. No, I guess, I don't get what you mean.
6. To Arthur? To Oberon? I don't get it.
1) What was Oberon's father's connection, if Mab's was power/chaos?
2) Does the power-ruling-class connection of the Oberon-Titania type refer solely to the fae ruling class, or ruling classes in general?
3) Does Alex have any kind of connection?
4) Do any other fae besides Oberon, Titania and Mab have the ruling class connection?
5) Can Mab be considered a trickster with the chaos connection?
6) Do any fae have a connection to off-planet things?
Further questions to stop this from becoming a marathon..
Connection? How are you defining that?
Hi mr. Weisman
In Mark of The Panther, Goliath killed "Anansi". He used a spear, but was it in iron? If not, how could a spear make him disappear like that?
It wasn't iron. So Anansi wasn't killed. But it still hurt, so he reverted to a small spider to escape.
I love this asking questions off of answers to my own questions! By the time you read this it will have been a while since you answered what I apologized being "an amorphous blob of a question" on Fox, her potential fae abilities and concrete lack thereof, as well as Titania's intentions. I now apologize for this being only a little less of a blob; I separated paragraphs- (randomly, but I did it).
I did not truly express myself well so you could not fully answer that question- (you did cover most of it). The main thing that has been bothering me, and which prompted me to assess the situation as I had, was that thought that Titania would intentionally put herself through the pain of having a child that will live, grow old and die in a fraction of her own lifespan. I realize that even Titania cannot foresee and account every happening, but I figure that she can handle birth control if she wanted to. [Given the cross species thing, I assumed she had to work at the non-compatibility problem. Different species should be nearly automatic birth control for the most part.] Basically, I assume she intended to have Fox- or at least a halfling child. [A correct assumption?]
You answered me on July 19 saying there was no exterior block on Fox practicing fae magic- only the atrophying of unused talents. The implication of The Gathering seemed to be that that bolt at Oberon was Fox's first act of magic. The thing I am curious about is whether or not Titania tried to make Fox a magical being as a child, or even as a baby, or, at any rate before issues of atrophy could come up. I assumed she would have tried, if for no other reason than giving Fox access to a lifespan of a short lived Oberati instead of a long lived human. [I really can't understand people willingly putting themselves through the pain of losing a child when there is any viable alternative.] Continuing with what were probably faulty assumptions I deduced that Titania must have tried in a direct fashion to get Fox used to magic until Fox was old enough to talk about it credibly (4 or 5?). After that point, through the events of the Gathering, I assumed she tried less direct methods- perhaps even things that would be dangerous for a child had her mother not been there to step in to save her. Fox of course would have generally found her own way out of dangerous situations using her mind and body and circumventing the whole experiment. This all seemed a rather logical set of deductions except for figuring out why a child version of Fox could not do magic. From there I hypothesized some sort of exterior block, which you said does not exist.
So…
Did Titania conceive Fox intentionally?
Did Titania desire to have a child that was human or halfling in point of view and ability?
[Oddly enough it seems to me Fox has a rather Fae POV despite her lack of magic]
Did Titania try to train Fox in fae magic as a small child?
If so, why didn't I work at the time?
Did Titania try indirect methods throughout the rest of Fox's life?
Now that Fox has touched on her fae potential- should she desire and be able to reclaim that 'muscle' and strengthen it, in effect become more a halfling than a human, could her life expectancy jump from what I would guess to be low hundreds to several hundred?
You wrote in your answer:
"Titania/Anastasia may have made some mistakes, may not have thought things out in advance. May have had one or more changes of heart."
I am beginning to getting a bit of a picture of Titania like the cat I once saw described in a birthday card- the sort of animal that can perch on your Tv, fall off with an ungraceful plop and then jump up with an "I meant to do that" look and walk proudly and disdainfully away. Perhaps all that wonderful manipulation I give her credit for is actually (in part) post facto saving face on an incredibly skill level.
I definitely think she wanted Fox. I think she loved Halcyon. And they wanted to have a child together. I think having that child was a huge part of her maturation process. (This is also all tied in with the two children she's had with Oberon. A not so happy story for another day.) The issue of Fox being a halfling was automatic. She couldn't have a child with Halcyon and NOT have it be a halfling. (You can't leave love out of the equation.)
At first, I don't think Titania DID try to train Fox in magic. Because, and this is key, she was working very hard to live as ANASTASIA. (Think Bewitched, I guess.) Again, there was love for her rational, scientist, industrialist man in there. But also it was a period of emotional growth for her. So she didn't want to mess with Fox's head. And she didn't realize it would cause problems later.
Later, yes, she tried many indirect methods. Including Matrix. No dice. So maybe, she had to try something a touch more desperate.
As to your last question, only time will tell.
Did gargoyles ever worship fae as gods?
Not really.
Hey there Mr. Weisman,
In an answer to an earlier question about the origins of the New Olympians, you said that the first New Olympians were the result of various fae-mortal unions, and I was just wondering if, in the Gargoyles Universe, all of the original 12 Olympians from Greek mythology would be classified as full-fledged members of the Third Race (i.e. Oberon's Children)?
Thank you and good luck on resurrecting Gargoyles.
Not necessarily.
1) Do fae grow weaker magically as they grow older?
2) Is there any limit to how powerful a fae can grow unaided by any magical artefacts?
3) How seriously can fae be hurt by human magic?
4) If gargoyles could develop their own sorcery, would the magic they utilise be identical to human magic?
5) Did the Zeroth/Lost Race use magic?
6) Do the New Olympians use magic these days?
1. Generally, no.
2. Probably.
3. Seriously.
4. Identical? Garg sorcery + human sorcery = mortal sorcery.
5. Zeroth? Who's that?
6. Rarely.
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