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Macbeth
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Raye writes...
Hi, my question concerns Demona and Gruoch, two of my favourite characters (One of my favourite moments in "Gargoyles" is when Demona goes completely against her prejudices and saves Macbeth and Gruoch when they're slipping from the parapet, and Gruoch's nervous little "thank you" to her afterwards). But anyway:
1. During the "Golden Age" of Macbeth's rule, how well did Gruoch and Demona get on? Or to make the question a bit more generalised, what was their relationship?
Obviously they wouldn't have been best friends, but I also can assume that as such close companions to Macbeth they would have spent a reasonable amount of time in each other's company.
2a. Would they have considered each other as a "friend"?
2b. Or was there a little bit of resentment/jealously/competition going on in terms of their separate relationships with Macbeth?
2c. Or did they just stay out of each other's way?
Thank you very much in advance for any reply you give me, I think the time and effort you put into communicating with fans is amazing! My fingers are crossed that the second half of season two will make it to DVD.
Greg responds...
1. I'd like to explore this someday. But generally, I think they got along on the surface, but that each had a healthy suspicion of the other.
2a. Try "ally".
2b. I'm not sure I'd characterize it that way. Demona distrusts humans. Gruoch distrusted Demona.
2c. Largely.
Harvester of Eyes writes...
I was just wondering: you've mentioned that you had two more loves planned for Demona. As far as MacBeth is concerned, did you have any loves planned for him? I've read through the archives, and maybe I missed it, but you mentioned that MacBeth did have other marraiges, but not often. Were there any that we would find out about between 1996 and 2198 (aside from "Dominique")?
Greg responds...
Eventually.
Paladin writes...
Dear Mr. Weisman-
I was wondering if you could clarify how William Shakespeare fits into the Gargoyle universe. Was he aware of the Third Race in some regard, or was he just a very talented writer whose stories were closer to truth than fiction?
Thank you for your time, and for your creation.
Greg responds...
Will's place in our world is a story I've yet to tell, but want to tell -- eventually in the comic book. So I'm not going to spell it out here, other than to reiterate what I've already revealed: i.e. that Macbeth was a friend to Will, though Will never knew that Macbeth was MACBETH.
And, oh, yes, Will wrote his plays.
Jonathan Anderson writes...
"31. What is the extent of the sensations that can be felt between Demona and Macbeth via their link? Can they feel other things besides pain?
Greg's answer:
Simple touching doesn't pass from one to the other. Intense feelings of pain and pleasure would."
So if the happened to have sex, it would be some sort of transfering chain re-action of pleasure?
Greg responds...
In theory.
Wally writes...
I searched the archives, but I may have missed the answer...
In "Sanctuary":
Given his suicidal tendencies, why does Macbeth bother to put up such a fight against Demona at the end? As he opens his secret stash of weapons before the final battle, he says something like "Demona, it ends tonight." He's had 900 years to think about his situation, so it struck me as odd that he temporarily seems to forget that he can effectively kill Demona by letting her kill *him*. Why does he bother to jump out of the way of her shots? And why does he have such a quick change of heart after Elisa "kills" Demona?
P.S. Thanks so much for continuing to answer questions. Gargoyles was an amazing creation. I hope you feel some pride in the accomplishment. (I'm 31, and every time I watch an episode, I'm amazed at how well the whole story ties together. Truly great work. Thanks!)
Greg responds...
I think Macbeth has seen in the past that Demona is not as consciously suicidal as he sometimes (and I emphasize "sometimes") is. He couldn't count on her being willing to kill him, since she knows that would result in her own death. In fact the best way to get Demona to gun for him is for him to gun for her and raise her anger to overcome her reason.
Plus, let's be honest, the guy is pissed off and humiliated and he'd like a bit of payback on his way out the door. His preference: he kills her, kiling them both. Just more satisfying then standing there like a target.
As for jumping out of the way... see above and also instinct. The fight or flight instinct is hard to overcome no matter how suicidal you may be. And Macbeth has always been a bit ambivalent on the subject at best.
Finally, why does he calm down? Well, a lot of the white hot anger has passed. Also, once again, he has briefly experienced death, and perhaps THAT'S not all it's cracked up to be. And Goliath's words eventually help too, I would think.
But frankly, I'll leave that for each of you to interpret.
Oh, and thanks for the kind words.
J writes...
How did Demona feel about having to kiss Macbeth in "Sanctuary"?
Greg responds...
I'm sure she told herself it was a necessary evil.
matt8387 writes...
Did Hakon die before or after Macbeth was born?
Greg responds...
Before.
Aves writes...
Hi Greg,
I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.
Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.
Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.
I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.
Greg responds...
Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...
Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").
Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).
Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.
Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)
Hope that clears it up.
Anonymous writes...
MacBeth was Scottish nobility and related to the king; so is he a from the line of Princess Katherine or the usurper, Constantine?
Greg responds...
Well, they're all related, at least distantly.
But here goes...
Kenneth I (the first high king of Scotland) had two sons Constantine I and Aodh.
Connie-1 begot Donald II. Meanwhile (to keep our generations straight) Aodh begot Constantine II.
Donnie-2 begot Maol Chalvim I, while Connie-2 begot Indulf. (Up to this point, NONE of these are people we've met in the series.)
Maollie-1 had three sons: Duff, Kenneth II and [the fictional] Malcolm of Wyvern, while Innie begot Culen.
Kennie-2 (Katharine's uncle) begot Maol Chalvim II (Katharine's cousin) while Malcolm of Wyvern begot [the equally fictional] Katharine... and while Cullie begot Constantine III. (All of these characters, except Cullen, were featured in "Avalon, Part One".)
Maollie-2 had three daughters and no sons.
The eldest Bethoc begot Duncan I (from "City of Stone"). The middle daughter Doada married Findlaech and begot Macbeth.
It's easier to see on a chart. But hopefully you can make your own chart with the info provided.
Maelgrim writes...
IN santurary why does Macbeth have a picture of Eliza over his fire place?
Greg responds...
It perplexed me too.
Thrist writes...
This is about Demona and MacBeth. Let's say Demona's wing's or tail were injured. Would Macbeth still feel the pain even though he dosen't have them or would he not feel it at all. If he di where??
Greg responds...
Good question. If the pain extended (for example) from wing down into the shoulder, he'd certainly feel it. Otherwise, I guess it would be very distant -- like phantom pain, maybe.
Axem Gold writes...
It's been a while since I asked a question here. Just couldn't think of an original question, but here some questions about Macbeth:
1. He did the best to defend the Gargoyles on Nightwatch on the Journey, so would he be more of an ally, enemy or neutral?
2. Would he play more of a role on Gargoyles or Pendragon?
3. Any plans for him to meet John Castaway (Canmore)?
THANKS
Greg responds...
1. I think at this point, he's more of an ally.
2. Hard to say in a hypothetical vacuum. He could be significant in both. He's not going to become a regular in either in the short term.
3. Yes.
Mike R writes...
Hi Greg. I started watching Gargoyles on Toon Disney over my younger sisters shoulder a few weeks ago and haven't stopped since. Alas I've discovered that Toon Disney are only showing about half the total number of episodes, so there are probably gaping holes in my understanding of the overall theme (I get the impression there is one - correct me if I'm wrong;-).
First off, very well done. I'm very impressed. Not only are they extremely well written and animated, but there is subtlety of dialogue and expression! In a Disney Cartoon? Indeed.
Secondly: just finished City of Stone. Missed part of it the first time round. There's only one thing I can say... "Oi! The tragedy!" If Demona is not one of the most cathartic characters created in the last century I don't know who is! Despite her brutal treatment of Goliath it's hard not to empathise with her, or to enjoy her episodes perhaps more than the rest (is this unhealthy?;-). Macbeth is the perfect counterpoint, another very good character and equally engaging in his own way. However, I am frustrated. I glanced down an episode list and couldn't find anything further devoted to them. How does their story conclude? I must know!
Thirdly: somewhere I posted an e-mail to a Gargoyles site and the owner told me a film had been on the cards for the last five years, but with no apparent progress. Is anything known that you could tell? I did wonder if, when the reply mentioned it might be live action, whether this might change as a result of the successes of CGI films in recent years. I wonder which would best suit the genre - CGI or live action? With CGI the original voice cast could be used, of course.
Sorry for the long message, and thanks for indulging a new initiate.
Greg responds...
First off, as far as I know Toon Disney regularly showed EVERY episode (in order) except "Deadly Force". (And I understand they've started showing that one too.)
I'm not sure how glancing at an "episode list" (a list of titles?) would reveal anything about the contents of our episodes.
Of course, you posted this in 2002 and it's 2004 now, so I'm assuming that if you had a real interest you've seen all the eps by now. But, yes of course we did more episodes with Demona and Macbeth after City of Stone. Many more.
My latest information is that the Live-Action movie has been put on hold. After five plus years of Touchstone actively pursuing a script, they finally gave up.
matt writes...
while watching "The Price" tonight, something struck me for the first time: when Xanatos builds the robot to distract the Clan while he does his thing with Hudson, why does he model the robot after MacBeth? he could've modeled any number of 'villains' or even a new character, so why MacBeth?
Greg responds...
I think he felt that Macbeth would be the perfect character for misdirection. Had he chosen Demona, there would have been a greater risk of Goliath et al figuring out that it was a robot, because they know Demona so well. And obviously, he didn't want to chose any villains (Pack members, Thailog) that Goliath would associate with him.
Plus he needed someone that Goliath would believe knew some sorcery -- in order for his con to work.
Obviously, there were other options. But his pick made sense.
Alfred Manifesto writes...
Yo
Long time watcher, first time question asker, I happen to be doing a research paper for colege concerning the literary references within Gargoyles (shakespeare and mythology). I was wondering what comments you might have concerning the way which you used these works. For example, your re-telling of McBeth in city of stone parts 1-4 is very different from the play. This makes sense because the play is an altered versain of the actual historical story to make it more entertaining as well as aceptable to the king of england. As i intend on focusing a majority of my paper to Mcbeth I was wondering how you went about combining history, shakespeare, and your own storyline. If you could make any general comments or speak about mythology in any way would be greatly apriciated. I ask not only because it would help my paper, but also it would be a personal thrill to even get a responce. I've known about this site for a while, but this is the first time i've had a decent question. Lastly, I know its quite possible this has been answered before, but i have not yet read all of the entries in the archives, you are creator and producer of one of my favorite cartoons of all time, how does one find themself in that possition of creater and producer? thanx for your time
Greg responds...
Well, unless your paper wasn't due until 2004, I guess I'm too late to help you there.
Macbeth (with an "a" and a lower case "b") the play was indeed a major influence on our version of Macbeth, but we chose to follow the less-told tale that was the true (or truer) history. But we kept the Weird Sisters in it, and even a few lines of Shakespeare where possible. Plus of course we added the gargoyle race, weaving Demona in and out of Macbeth's story. Or rather, we weaved Macbeth's story into the tapestry that is the Gargoyles' Universe.
As to my background, I'd suggest checking the FAQ and coming back here if you have more specific questions that the FAQ didn't answer.
matt writes...
all this Demona/Macbeth talk (we've been reviewing City of Stone and High Noon lately, we are probably somewhere around The Gathering by the time you read this, both the episode and the event) and i thought of a question:
we know that the pain shared by Demona and Macbeth has a distance factor to it, if they are far away from each other when one gets hurt, the other probably won't feel it, but i was wondering if death is like this as well? if Demona was to get shot or whatever and died, would Macbeth miles and miles away also momentarily die?
Greg responds...
Distance mitigates the effect, but doesn't shut it off. Pain, death, whatever.
Wolfram Bane (wolfram_bane@hotmail.com) writes...
Macbeth
In the Gargoyles universe, you mention that Luach was the son of Macbeth and Gruoch, and born in 1033. In actual history, Luach was the son of Gillcomgain and Gruoch, and born in 1030. After Gillcomgain's death in 1032, Macbeth married Gruoch and adopted Luach as his own son and heir, and Luach even succeeded Macbeth as King briefly in 1054. I was curious as to the reasons you modified these aspects of history?
Greg responds...
I didn't. Not to my knowledge. My research indicates that Lulach (Luach) was born in early 1033, after Gillecomgain's death, but too soon to be Macbeth's son (at least legally). We glanced over it in the episode, but, yes, Macbeth adopts Gillecomgain after marrying Gruoch in 1032.
Further, my research indicated that rumors were rampant in court that Mac was actually Lulach's biological father, as well.
It's possible the research I received was faulty. (For example, a typo caused us to spell and pronounce Lulach's name incorrectly.) But we made every effort to weave our fiction among the facts -- without changing those facts.
The date of Lulach's birth is approximate anyway. So any time between 1030 and 1033 is probably "legitimate".
Todd Jensen writes...
When, in "City of Stone Part Two", Duncan manipulated Macbeth into seeking out Gillecomgain to avenge his father, what was he hoping the result would be:
a. That Macbeth would slay Gillecomgain, thus ridding Duncan of an increasingly unreliable and likely rebellious former ally? (The result, of course, that actually happened).
b. That Gillecomgain would slay Macbeth, Duncan's leading rival to the throne?
c. That the two of them would kill each other, thus ridding Duncan of both of them?
Greg responds...
Well, I'm sure his ultimate preference would have been c, of course. But either a or b were good news, so he'd settle happily for the a he got.
Anonymous writes...
Silly question if Macbeth was to get his head chopped off or get blown to bit how would the weird sister's spell keep him alive?
Greg responds...
Who knows? Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it would.
Vanity writes...
Hi Greg:
I was just watching "City of Stone". It is a beutiful piece of work. I am very fond of it.
I espicially like the one scene where that woman runs up to Travis Marshall to relate what had happened and he just totally blows her off as "crazy". That got me thinking we ALL do that (as humans) completely discount the minority view as absurd and stupid. Classic example "The Flat Earth Society", oh, we just love to make fun of them. I have decided to be more open minded to even the most seemingly crazy ideas or beliefs. I have watched "CoS" many times but that scene never really hit me like it did just today. Was that intentional on your part? To show the err in human ways. You've said all things are true and what she said was true, just because no one believed her doesn't make it no less right. It reminded me of a Greek Philosopher I think his name was Isocrates I am not sure and his quote went
"If all mankind, minus one; were of a common opinion except the one of a differing opinion. All of mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one, than he, if he had the power; would be justified in silencing all of mankind..."
More things I loved about this episode.
King Duncan's death, in my mind one of the top 10 animated deaths ever.
Demona, saves Gruoch and Macbeth when she could have had her vengence, she chose the nobler of the two courses, made me feel all happy inside. I must admit though killing Gilcoumgain then would have saved her a lot of trouble and heart break later on.
Her plan was very sinister, and her killing of the statued humans was a very dark contrast to her more kind-hearted younger self we had just seen earlier in eps like "Vows". I also liked this too, she's not soft and weak as she is commited to her cause and for that I commend her. I agree with her goals, her means are brutal and me being human will make me possibly feel the urge to resist being smited, but I hope she sees her dream out and accomplishes it, power to her.
One thing very much dissapointed me, relating to Demona when she gave the access code to Goliath and Xanatos the code was "ALONE", not one you'd imagine she'd pick, totally took me by suprise when I first saw it; but Goliath was apparently unaffected by her choice of a password and the huge water works under her eyes. Does he have a heart of stone? She's not even real (I think), and I feel a lump in my throat, every time I see that; yet he knows she's real and didn't even care, creep.
MacBeth, what can I say I think he is great. I think his story is one of the more tragic on the show. Considering all that happens, he always loved and still loves Gruoch. The one time that we see him actually take interest in life and love again he is set up by Dominique and Thailog. His plight is very dramatic. Living but having to as Gruoch said "Remain dead", dead to his country, his home, and his family.
Gruoch: Even though she gets very little air time on the series I think she is great. My second favorite female character. She is strong, smart, wise, intuitive, loving, radiant, and very honest in commiting to her duty. I espicially like how she stood up to Demona at the end, what courage. She even scorned the Hunter as "Oh mighty" with her sarcasm, 'your not mighty your a coward'. I cannot see how you could not love her.
"COS" has its share of humorous wit to it as well. I absoulutely love this:
Elisa: "..the signal came from Pak-Media studios you own it so as usual this is your fault!"
Owen: "Mr. Xanatos is trying to fix things. What are you doing to help?"
I love Elisa's expression, that's good stuff.
-Since I do not want to go into great lenghty deatail about every detail of the show..-
King Duncan- Very paranoid.
Hudson+Trio- not much to say
Boudie(SP)- Probably has his heart in the right place but man what a --well cowardly guy--
Demona's Betrayl of MacBeth- this shocked me, leave him to die at the castle but she actually contacted Kenmore?
Wierd Sisters- I HATE them. I think they are corrupt, vile, and wicked, they should burn in a fiery lake in the seventh circle of Hell somewhere. For a very, very long time. (I make this judgement with my Knowledge of the "Avalon" eps)
Vengence begats nothing more than a vicious cycle of further vengence- true perhaps, but highly over exaggerated.
The betrayl of the Cast Wyvern- I want to know who slept at Demona's roost. When the Vikings sacked it.
Bronx and Demona's encounter- I loved it. Good job.
Demona and Macbeth- It's amazing how it goes, I like when Demona came back from the fight all happy and swirled Macbeth high off the ground. Her joyous attitude was refreshing, yet all to short in length.
That's all for this post. Thanks for listening.
Vanity~
Greg responds...
A few responses to your comments...
1. Yes, the scene with Travis and the woman was a comedic way to make exactly that point.
2. Can't say I'm rooting for Demona to succeed. I'm rooting for Demona, but not in that way.
3. We had an entire contest to explain "Alone" and got some very interesting responses. You might check them out in the contest archive here at ASK GREG.
4. I think it's presumptuous of you to assume you know exactly what Goliath was feeling. But one thing to keep in mind is that he had just witnessed the results of her mass murder spree.
5. I've said this before, but we all got to watch Emma Samms blossom as a voice actress over the course of just these four episodes. She had never done cartoons before. She was a bit stiff in Gruoch's first appearance, but, MAN, by COS4, she was just ROCKING!!! I give her and voice director Jamie Thomason a ton of credit for really bringing Gruoch to life when we needed it most.
6. I'm not sure that Bodhe did have his heart in the right place -- until, I like to think, the very end.
7. The notion that vengeance begets nothing more than a vicious cycle of further vengeance, is not only true but is if anything UNDERSTATED. Hardly exagerated. One only has to look at a newspaper to see that the Montagues and Capulets of this world simply refuse to recognize this obvious, obvious FACT. It drives me insane. Your casual dismissal of the notion doesn't thrill me either. (Sorry.)
8. You're welcome. I like your posts.
warrioress writes...
In the episode "Sanctuary", how was it that Demona could knock MacBeth out cold and remain conscious herself? (right after the wedding, when she reveals her true identity to him?)
(Marina Sirtis did a pretty hokey French accent, if you ask me... ;-)
Greg responds...
She was ready for the blow. Plus she's a garg. She feels the exact same force. But it's tougher to knock out a garg than a human.
Shadowman writes...
Hello Greg,
Im a big fan of the gargoyles and all and I was wondering if the gargoyles were still on the air would you bring back the Hunter? and few other questions.. how many Hunters were in the gargoyle history? I know they were 1 in the ancient times and 3 in the present and McBeth was kind of one... and the other question if you did brought back the Hunter what kind of look would he have? a High Tech-ish look more beyond what the 3 Hunters had?
Greg responds...
I don't know exactly how many hunters there have been. We've shown a sampling, including Gillecomegain, Duncan, Canmore, the Renaissance Hunter, Charles Canmore, Jason Canmore, Robyn Canmore, Jon Canmore. And, as you said, briefly, Macbeth. Fiona Canmore would have appeared in Team Atlantis, had that show gone forward, and Robyn would have continued as the Hunter in Bad Guys (though she'd largely be hunting other bad guys, not gargs) had that show gone forward.
There are more Hunters in the past, including some specific ones that I have in mind. But I won't pretend I've run the entire Canmore line from Canmore to Jon out in my head and listed every single one.
As for moving forward, I see the Hunters waning in favor of the waxing Quarrymen. But I'm not talking in absolutes.
HANNA BERHANU writes...
Macbeth:
what is king Duncan's reaction to the news that cawdor is a traitor ?what will happen to his title'
2-do Macbeth and Banquo have the same reaction to ROSS'NEWS?
3-WHAT ANNOUNCEMENT IS MADE ABOUT MALCOLM? WHAT IS MACBETH'S REACTION?
4-HOW DID LADY MACBETH FIND OUT ABOUT THE WITCHES' PROPHECIES?
5-HOW WILLING IS MACBETH TO GO ALONG WITH LADY MACBETH'S PLANS FOR HIM TO ATTAIN THE THRONE?
Greg responds...
Are you writing a term paper, Hanna?
Or are you just quizzing me on my Reading Comprehension of the play?
This seems rather pointless.
Shannon writes...
What proof Can we find that Macbeth was a man filed with greed, ambitons and desire
Greg responds...
Uh... beyond the fact that he's a human being and we are all filled with these things, at least to some extent...
And having said that, I wouldn't say that those are Macbeth's foremost qualities. (At least not in the Gargoyle Universe.) So how hard should I work to offer you proof?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
What proof do you require?
The Souldier writes...
I have an off the wall question for you, in "Enter Macbeth," what was Macbeth drinking? Was it coffee, tea, or cocoa? It had to have been something hot because there was steam coming off of it. If it was cocoa, did he have marshmellows in it?
Greg responds...
I don't know.
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