A Station Eight Fan Web Site
This is another comment rather than a question, but I thought that you might find it interesting.
A few days ago I was visiting the local Borders, and noticed a book in the Shakespeare section about Shakespeare in popular culture. When I peeked inside, I found that it briefly mentioned the inclusion of Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, and Puck in "Gargoyles" as an example of Shakespearean characters cropping up in pop culture. It didn't say anything more about the series than that or go into detail, but I thought that you might find it amusing.
Cool. Do you remember the name of the book?
For those of you who have worn out your GARGOYLES first season DVD playing the words "Nice Mask" over and over and over again...
For those of you who have waited and watched for that Panda-La episode of Talespin, just so that you can hear: "Father, the rockets aren't working!"...
For those of you who just can't get enough of the homeless guy in 3x3 Eyes humming the Gargoyles' theme...
I'd recommend you rush out and purchase the four volume DVD set of IKKI TOUSEN (Strength of a Thousand).
Heck, I'd recommend it anyway. I've watched the first three volumes and plan to watch the fourth volume tonight. They're all a lot of fun. The interview with the director is worth the price of admission alone. Loads of action and sexy stuff. (NOT FOR KIDS, BTW! ADULTS ONLY!)
It doesn't quite exist yet. But, yes. It's coming. Or at least I'm starting to feel confident that it's coming. (Traditionally, this kinda confidence has a history of blowing up in my face, but what the heck, right?)
Want the backstory?
At the Gathering 2003 in New York City, I sat down for a while with Martin Lund. Some of you know him as Kai, I believe. At the time, I have to admit, I mostly knew him as Lexy's other half. (Sorry, Marty, can't quite bring myself to say "better half".) Anyway, Marty and I talked. About a lot of stuff, but mostly about how much we'd both like to see a new GARGOYLES comic book telling original stories for the fans.
Marty felt we could make it happen. And Marty got me to believe it was possible.
We soon partnered up with Greg Guler. Many of you have met Greg G. at various Gatherings. Greg was one of the main development artists who helped create GARGOYLES. (He did the key inspirational designs on a few minor characters that you might remember: Goliath, Elisa, Demona.) He was also the Lead Character Designer for the entire Second Season of the Series. Like me, Greg G. also has a comic book background. We both worked at DC Comics in the late eighties/early nineties -- though we never actually worked together back then. He did a bunch of stuff, but the thing I always rememered was his monthly work on HAWK & DOVE.
(When Greg & I first met in person, he was doing prop design at Disney. I kinda credit myself for giving him a push into character design. He's been one of WDTVA's chief character designers for years now. His credits there are almost endless.)
Anyway, Marty & Greg & I formed a partnership, which we soon called CREATURE COMICS. Our initial goal was to license and launch a new GARGOYLES comic book. Marty would handle the business end. Greg G. would handle the art end. Yours truly would handle the writing (and to a lesser extent be the big mouth mouthpiece for the group -- hence this ramble).
Of course, this was nearly TWO YEARS ago. But Marty does NOT give up. Money was our first problem, i.e. we had none, and *surprise, surprise* Disney wasn't keen on the idea of licensing the GARGOYLES property for free. In fact, because we were a start-up (up-start?) company with no track record, they actually wanted a LARGER license fee as, in essence, insurance, in case we screwed up. The good news was that they did LIKE the idea of having two of the original creators being in charge of the creative. (This would fortunately be of importance down the road.) They just weren't wild about a bunch of "amateurs" being put in charge of their property.
But as I said, Marty does NOT give up. Still, for the time being, we put a pin in the GARGOYLES idea. If that was too expensive, we'd start with an ORIGINAL property -- one that CREATURE COMICS could own. We'd prove ourselves on that. Then after we were huge successes, we'd be able to go to Disney again with that track record they felt they needed.
Turns out we had a problem here too. No money. (Funny how that keeps coming up.) So CREATURE COMICS morphed into CREATURE COMICS.COM. We'd launch the comic on the web. This seemed like a plan. But life/reality/actual paying work kept getting in the way. (We -- meaning Greg G. -- did manage to create a logo though, which should be revealed soon.)
Meanwhile, as I mentioned, Marty was busy NOT giving up. He maintained contact with Disney. They were still interested in having the GARGOYLES creators on a GARGOYLES comic book. (And I figure the relative success of the DVD didn't hurt our situation either.) It was just that pesky start-up status that they couldn't deal with. But believe it or not, DISNEY suggested a solution. They were (are) currently in the process of making a licensing deal with SLAVE LABOR GRAPHICS... i.e. a comic book company with an actual track record!
Now, as of this writing, to my knowledge, the deal between SLG and DISNEY is not yet fully, totally realized. As I understand it, they're VERY close. But it's not signed. So normally, I would TOTALLY not be discussing ANY OF THIS (this whole ramble would not exist). But Dan Vado, who runs SLG, spilled some beans last weekend. So we talked with him, and he was okay with us talking to you, with us being cautiously optimistic.
SLG is on the verge of licensing four properties from Disney: HAUNTED MANSION, ALICE IN WONDERLAND, TRON and... GARGOYLES.
GARGOYLES was NOT part of SLG's original pitch to Disney. But Disney hooked Marty, Greg & myself up with Dan. Everyone (Disney, Dan, Marty, Greg, Greg) really liked the idea of CCC packaging the creative on a new GARGOYLES comic for SLG. So THAT is the plan.
But I have to add the caveat, that at the moment, it's STILL only a plan. Because SLG hasn't signed on the dotted line with Disney, they have -- for obvious reasons -- not yet made any deal with us at CCC. As I said, I'm cautiously optimistic. But s--t happens, you know? So cross your fingers for us, but... well, it may still be a touch premature to ACTUALLY hold your breath.
Anyway... I'll be the writer. THE ONLY WRITER. So those of you looking to trade me in for Joss Whedon or Neil Gaiman are SOL. Greg Guler will be the Art Director. He may not pencil every issue, but he'll be making sure that every issue looks damn good. Marty, as usual, will handle the business end of things in his capacity as Executive Vice President of Not-Giving-Up.
Our direction is pretty straight forward. The book we'll be styled to look like the series, and my plan is to pick up pretty much where "Hunter's Moon" left off and do the "third season" that I wanted to do (as opposed to the GOLIATH CHRONICLE version). (The year is 1996. Although I'm probably not going to go out of my way to put a date in the content of the comic that'll scare away a new audience. There's always ASK GREG to fill people in on timeline details. And eventually, I'm hoping to catch up to the present.) I'm also eventually hoping that this thing is such a massive success that it'll lead to all the spin-offs we've been talking about for years. Not to mention those ORIGINAL PROPERTIES that CCC would own and that we still hope to do someday. But to some extent that won't be up to us. It'll be up to all of you.
Marty & Greg & I are all VERY excited! I'd say SPREAD THE WORD!!! But frankly, it's all a bit premature. We hope to begin finalizing things in the next month or so. (Dan's "leak" has certainly lit a bit of a fire. Hmmmm.... wonder if that wa his plan all along? Why, that little scamp!) Greg G. and I are both planning to be on hand for a bit with Disney & SLG at the San Diego ComicCon, so look for us there.
And of course, I'm hoping to be able to tell you a LOT more at the GATHERING 2005 in Las Vegas. Marty'll be there too. You can all hoist him on your shoulders, cuz honestly, he's the real hero in all of this. I get the juice, but he squeezed it.
So that's the scoopage, folks.
CREATURE COMICS.COM. It doesn't exist yet. But... damn... don't give up!
What did Titania whisper to Fox in "The Gathering"?
Part One or Part Two?
MacBeth was Scottish nobility and related to the king; so is he a from the line of Princess Katherine or the usurper, Constantine?
Well, they're all related, at least distantly.
But here goes...
Kenneth I (the first high king of Scotland) had two sons Constantine I and Aodh.
Connie-1 begot Donald II. Meanwhile (to keep our generations straight) Aodh begot Constantine II.
Donnie-2 begot Maol Chalvim I, while Connie-2 begot Indulf. (Up to this point, NONE of these are people we've met in the series.)
Maollie-1 had three sons: Duff, Kenneth II and [the fictional] Malcolm of Wyvern, while Innie begot Culen.
Kennie-2 (Katharine's uncle) begot Maol Chalvim II (Katharine's cousin) while Malcolm of Wyvern begot [the equally fictional] Katharine... and while Cullie begot Constantine III. (All of these characters, except Cullen, were featured in "Avalon, Part One".)
Maollie-2 had three daughters and no sons.
The eldest Bethoc begot Duncan I (from "City of Stone"). The middle daughter Doada married Findlaech and begot Macbeth.
It's easier to see on a chart. But hopefully you can make your own chart with the info provided.
A question about Elisa awakening King Arthur "early". Now, we know that Elisa awakened Arthur ahead of schedule, based on the information given in "Avalon Part Three" and "Pendragon", and that he was apparently originally supposed to be awakened somewhat later and for a different emergency than the Archmage (although we don't know what it was or how far away in time it would be).
What I'm curious about is: has Elisa thereby altered Arthur's destiny? To explain a little more about what I mean, I suppose that I'd better go into a brief "ramble".
We don't know much about the nature of fate or destiny in the Gargoyles Universe (beyond the fact that the Weird Sisters are linked to it, at least when Luna is the dominant one), but we can tell that it exists in some ways (such as Avalon sending people "where they need to be"). I don't know if it's actually supposed to be possible to "alter destiny" in the Gargoyles Universe, beyond the fact that we know that the past can't be altered (as Goliath and Demona have both learned the hard way), but since Elisa came to the Hollow Hill in her own time rather than in the past, her awakening Arthur obviously wouldn't count as changing history in the same way that somebody going back in time to, say, avert the Wyvern Massacre would. However, since the future is part of the time-stream (and I assume that the only 2198 in the Gargoyles Universe is the one where the Space-Spawn show up and take over the planet and there are no alternate 2198s where that event doesn't take place), it doesn't seem so probable that it can be altered.
On the other hand, we do know that carefully-laid plans that were devised, not by God or destiny or something of a transcendent nature, but by humans or gargoyles or the Oberati, can be changed through the actions of others. Demona and the Captain of the Guard's original plans to betray Castle Wyvern, for example, wound up having different results than those that they were expecting, thanks partly to Goliath's decision to only take Hudson with him, partly to Hakon's decision to smash the gargoyles at the castle in spite of the Captain's protests.
So what my real question is, I suppose, is this; was the original "future time" for Arthur's awakening (in which he will not be awakening after all thanks to Elisa) set by God or Fate or something of that nature, or was it set merely by people (as in, the ones who placed him in the Hollow Hill)? Has Elisa genuinely altered Arthur's future, or only altered his future as it was perceived by those who laid him to sleep on Avalon?
It's a very interesting distinction isn't it? Does Destiny = Future?
Well, I'm thinking no. The future, as you stated, is part of the timestream. Actual events that happened in the future (from some kind of external perspective) are immutable.
But Destiny, to me at least, means something different. Destiny is about potential. It's not about a lock or a guarantee.
Individual characters may be loose with language, but I think that in the Gargoyles Universe, when one says a character is "DESTINED" to do X, what one means is that said character is destined to ATTEMPT X. Doesn't guarantee success. Success relies on a combination of indiviual and circumstance.
So, to your original question, has Elisa altered Arthur's destiny? I'd have to say... "MAYBE!!!!"
I mean actually, I know the answer to that question, but I just don't feel like answering it now. What I mean by "maybe" is that she certainly may have. She may have created a new destiny for him. She may have spoiled plans for the old destiny. And yet he may find his way back to that old destiny. Or what he does accomplish may not be exactly the original destiny, but winds up doing the same thing or sowing seeds for others to reep. Any or all of the above.
I have a question about Angela:) How old was she when she first appeared on the Avalon series? Just curious:) I appreciate you taking time to look over this and answer:) Thanks:)
I assume you mean "How old was she when she first appeared in 'Avalon, Part One'?"
Angela was biologically 19-years-old.
Although, in fact she was chronologically 917.