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In the episode Vows, why does Demona bother trying to change what her younger self did to prevent the massacre? You cannot change history, so I don't understand her motivation. You could say she didn't know that rule but I would expect that a soceress that has lived for over a thousand years would know that.
Also she would have remembered everything that happened to her when she was younger (though maybe her memory would be rusty after a 1000 years but she does tell Goliath that she remembers her speech) so what would be the logic and motivation for her to go into the past if she knows she failed and act exactly how she remembered and FAIL like she remembered. Did she only go because she had to go because she remembered it happening? The whole time being fixed says she had to go to remember failing, but that still doesn't explain her motivation for doing something she knew wouldn't work out. Or perhaps her motivation was to see herself as innocent again? To remember why she did what she did at the last wedding she attended with Goliath? Agh...this turns into a big wouldn't one cancel out the other and get all confusing thing...
Also considering that Demona is a thousand years old, what did she do for all that time? The some of it is shown in the episodes, but nothing really after the whole hunter thing and macbeth, and that was a long time ago. Wouldn't a thousand years be enough time for her to travel around the world and find other clans so she would not have ended up so alone?
Also really old characters always bother me. I know you cannot assume that wisdom comes with great age, but I wonder how someone could live that long and not really mature at all? I guess that adds to the insanity, that everything else changes and you don't so that would add to her whole "alone" complex and anger.
Heh sorry for the long question/ramble...
Demona was hoping that you COULD change history. Since the Gate was broken, there wasn't any time travel in her long past to know for sure how the system worked. She was hoping she could avoid Goliath's appearance. She knew he showed up, but she didn't know how that happened, so she was hoping... hoping...
It's interesting that Demona is so full of hope. Hmmmmm.... Maybe it's just denial.
I won't pretend I've mapped out ALL of Demona's 1000 years, but I have a few key events in mind. As to her stunted growth... well, I know a lot of wise old people myself. And I know a lot of wise old idiots too. So I based her on REAL LIFE. ;)
My Puck/Owen Ramble:
I didn't see it coming, okay? Maybe I'm thick or something but I did not have the -slightest- clue that Owen was really the Puck. Did. Not. See it. I was blown away, to put it mildly. I fell out of my chair and frothed for a bit. Having managed to see these episodes in order, I'd seen all of Owen's episodes and Puck's and still didn't see it coming. Later, when I re-watched City of Stone, I fell over again: YOU KNEW ALL ALONG!! HINTS!!! EVERYWHERE!!! AGhthth!
As to the stone fist, I'd read it like this: Owen didn't know -what- the cauldron would do, but figured if it was something really bad, he could always get a new hand, given some time. His faith in Xanatos' technology was quite high, and there was ample evidence that Xanatos was developing loyalty-like emotions of his own. (I say loyalty-like because frankly Xanatos is one scary bugger, even post-Gathering.) As for Xanatos, I (wrongly, it turned out) read him as really feeling something there, some shock, some dismay and even sympathy, BUT knowing that the worst thing he could express was sympathy. It's not the Xanatos way to cry over spilled milk, or even a few gallons of spilled blood. You arch an eyebrow, make a mental note, and go on. To me at least, he did Owen a great service by reacting in the most Xanatos way possible, and in fact anything else would have been an insult to what I thought at the time was a huge (but on some level, justified as it IS freaking immortality) sacrifice.
(That last bit works really well even if you know about Puck, but it's far less dramatically heavy and more of a sublimely funny moment the two friends share. To translate the lines into Dude-where's-my-car-ese: "Hey, check it. Human form, human effects." "Huh huh. Awesome." The pair are actually -both- parodying themselves here, Owen being subserviant to the point of near-insanity, and Xanatos blowing it off. I like to think that here Xanatos is kind of thinking to himself "boy, I'm kind of a jerk, aren't I" but having more fun playing the part than any sort of remorse-like emotions.
If I somehow haven't said it enough, holy crap Gargoyles is the awesomeness, I've bought two copies each of the two DVD sets out, and I am obsessed with Xanatos' scary hotness. I have a LiveJournal icon of him from "The Edge" with the words "OMG XANATOS!" blinking underneath it. A toast to the prettiest, scariest, yummiest villain of all time.
I appreciate your compliments, but I also really LOVE your analysis of the characters. The fact that Owen turned out to be Puck doesn't change most of what you wrote.
As for that revelation, our goal was to shock the audience (or most of it) but still leave them saying, "Of course! Why didn't I see it before?!"
It's me! (Giggles, chuckles and many guffaws.)
How are you? I have some questions about Thailog and....yah...
1.(WHY WONT THE STUPID TAB BUTTON WORK!!!) Uh....anyway, How dose Thailog view Alexander? Dose he consider him a 'brother'?
2. How dose Thailog view his own creation? I'm asking this because of the Justice Leauge clone Galatea. She thought hse had to prove her 'own existance' to everyone by destroying super girl. Dose Thailog feel the same way about Goliath and Xanatose?
1. It will be interesting to see.
2. I think Thailog may be over the notion (assuming he ever really subscribed to it and wasn't just play-acting) that he needs to destroy Goliath, Xanatos and Sevarius. We've already seen him working with Anton. And I think, like David, he'd view killing Goliath and David as too wasteful.
I just caught City of Stone on the fantastic Season 2 DVD set, and a good (or so I hope) question occurred to me. Given Macbeth's on again/off again suicidal tendencies, was he masquerading as the Hunter in the hopes that Demona would take one look at him and nail him with a bazooka? Or was he just trying to go for a more satisfying psychological advantage in a hand-to-hand fight?
Definitely the latter, subconsciously the former. Though I think he probably had a clear preference to be the one doing the killing (and dying as a result) as opposed to letting Demona kill her. He'd have settled for either (at that time). But I do think he had a preference.
My name is Christina and I love Gargoyles to death, What I wanted to ask is that are going to do a season 4 because I love this show so much and I want to see more and more episodes. So Im so kindly beging to do another season and continue on. Please let me know I would kindly like to. Here's my e-mail address: firstname.lastname@example.org I thank you so much!!!!!
I don't respond directly to e-mails, I'm afraid. But if you're still hanging around a year after you posted this, I hope by now you know all about the DVDs, the Gathering and the comic series. You want more Gargoyles, those are the places to look!
This isn't a question, but more to a comment to the now season 2, Vol 1 Dvd that has been realised to the public this December. Once again I would like to thank you Mr. Weisman for your continuing efforts to promote Gargoyles along with the comic, which I will be hunting for soon. I dearly hope that Vol 2 of season 2 will come onto dvd, and myself along with my family will be the first to purchase it.
Once more thank you Mr. Weisman for allowing old Gargoyles fans to reconnect with something that we loved.
You're VERY welcome. And thank you for supporting the property.
Have you ever considered a Gargoyle Role-Playing Game? I feel like there are many possibilities involved in this concept... or perhaps is there already one in the works? Because if there is, I was wondering who the publisher/ production company might be. With Fondest Memories 9and monetary support through the purchase of your t.v. show's DVD), Maivillain
I have a vague memory that after the Dallas Gathering, which was attended by Steve Jackson, that Christine Morgan and I had some discussion about this. But I guess nothing ever came of it. I'd be happy to participate in the creation of a Gargoyles RPG, but I don't know enough about that arena to initiate things. And of course, one has to keep in mind that I don't OWN Gargoyles. So whomever wanted to do it, would have to purchase a license from Disney. Not impossible to do, as SLG has proven, but not easy to do as CreatureComics.com learned when we tried to get the comic book license before being teamed with SLG.
Hey Greg, I'm back to make my review of the Season II - Volume I DVD!
I've been waiting to do this since I bought it on the day of release - I'm actually a tad surprise it took so long, as opposed from last year . . .
But getting to the point: Season II, Volume I ROCKED! Several of my favorite episodes are in this DVD, including the City of Stone 4-Parter, the Avalon 3-Parter, and probably my favorite in the entire DVD: The Mirror!
My favorite bonus feature was the episode introductions, and I really wish now that Season I had them as well. They offered more behind the scenes info than I think I expected. I really did love the Gathering of the Cast and Crew: I have only seen Keith David, Johnathan Frakes, Mirina Sirtis and Sally Richardson (and you, of course) in my history of Gargoyles, so it was nice to finally attach some faces to the rest of the cast and crew as well. I loved Jeff Bennet's 3-Voice demo. Absolutely amazing and hilarious at the same time!
I loved the commentary on City of Stone. Out of the two multi-parters we got, I'm happy this one at least got the commentary. The back-story of Demona and Macbeth is perhaps the best memory I have of watching Gargoyles when I was six. Never before (and I think you mentioned this on the commentaries) had I seen the bad guys in a point of view that got me feeling sorry for both of them! The music by Carl Johnson in the Part IV (Where we see Demona in the forest fire) is definitely what I reminisce most in the four-parter. Simply legendary.
By the way, after I had watched the City of Stone four-parter commentaries, I was driven to look up the entire "Macbeth" Family Tree. I finally found the historical version, and with the knowledge of what I knew of Princess Katherine and her dad Prince Malcolm, I think I worked it all out all the way to Luach (I know, I know . . . Lulach. But I'm used to it!) and Canmore!
I don't know if it was you or someone in the Gargoyles team that did it, but I love the fact that the cover says "We Live Again." Simple, but powerful for anyone who remembers the series.
I wish Avalon had a commentary as well, but that is why I appreciate the Introductions so much.
I can't wait for the next DVD. I can't wait to have The World Tour (which I had always called the 'Avalon Odyssey' before I started going online) to my collection. So many stories in so many places . . . I love them all!
Thanks for the series, Greg. From the season premire I was lucky to witness up to today, this show STILL remains my favorite show of all time!
On to Volume II!
You're very welcome.
In House at Disney, we started calling it "The Gargoyle World Tour" as a joke. Like we'd make concert t-shirts with all the stops. (HEY, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA!!)
Thanks for the "Gathering Part Two" ramble, Greg! Some of my thoughts on the episode.
One of my favorite touches in the early stages of the battle was Renard's involvement in the fighting (alongside Vogel and the cybots). I think that one way of giving a battle an epic tone is to bring in familiar supporting characters as well as the major characters; Renard's presence in Fortress-2 gave a real feeling of making the confrontation a really big one.
Oberon put up a truly fierce battle with a lot of great touches, I thought - particularly the animated gargoyles, the growing hair, and the limbo space within his cloak. It made him seem formidable indeed, even with the self-imposed limitation that his arts could no longer directly affect the clan.
I share that little delight in Xanatos's line about saving Broadway. How typical of him to cover up his true thoughts like that!
And the suspicion that I'd begun to develop about Owen and Puck being one and the same was confirmed. It still shocked me a little, but I quickly got used to it. My favorite part of it is still the bit where Puck says "He chose Owen", sounding truly impressed as he did so; you could just feel Puck being so intrigued and delighted that Xanatos would value Owen's non-magical efficiency over Puck's magic. (Mind you, after seeing how Puck granted Demona's wishes in "The Mirror", I'd say that Xanatos showed good judgment in choosing a lifetime of service from Owen!)
I remember a particularly fun remark about the scene where Fox at least unleashed her powers on Oberon; the reviewer commented that that scene was something that alert viewers saw coming - but what made it so fun was that she didn't just unleash her powers, but that she did so with such force as to send Oberon - who had seemed almost unstoppable at this point - through the wall!
In "Future Tense", Puck taught Goliath the hard way about being careful what you wish for. Now Puck gets a taste of that lesson himself; he gets what he was hoping for in "Future Tense" - getting to stay in the mortal world a while longer - but not in a way that he finds appealing! (I've recently found myself wondering, incidentally, whether Goliath, when he suggested Puck for the role of training Alex - though Puck was the obvious choice anyway - might not have been trying to get a little of his own back over that recent nightmare.)
That idea of yours about the gargoyles flying inside Oberon's head was funny - but it's probably just as well that we didn't see it.
And it definitely would be like Puck to say "I'm on a roll" to the audience - it would be perfectly in character for him to break the fourth wall.
Naturally, no ramble about "The Gathering Part Two" would be complete without a mention of the infamous Whisper. I don't want to know what Titania whispered, myself - but I've sometimes wondered if you've ever regretted putting that scene in, in light of how often you've been asked about it!
And we have a great ending with the beginnings of peace between Goliath and Xanatos - though even with the war over, there's still plenty of trouble to come in other directions.
Once again, thanks for the ramble, Greg.
You're welcome. No regrets. Just no intention of revealing what I'm sure now would be an anti-climactic answer anytime soon.
Thank you for taking the time to interact with us fans, and congratulations on the success of the initial DVD releases. I imagine that by the time you read this we'll have new cannononical stories from the comic book and the rest of season 2 out on DVD. It's truly a great time to be a Gargoyles fan.
I enjoyed the world tour tremendously. One thing that always struck me as particularly interesting is that the world tour didn't end because it was finished, but because Goliath et al abandoned it after Avalon sent them to Manhattan. My questions and requests:
Question 1: In Ill Met By Moonlight, did Avalon bring the crew back to Avalon because of Oberon's plan to remove the Gargoyles, or was that an in-between quest?
Question 2: Were there any negative consequences resulting from Goliath choosing not to get back on the skiff following the events of The Gathering?
Question 2a: Do you have any notions of where Avalon might have sent the skiff had our intrepid heroes continued their quest following The Gathering, or who they might have encountered?
Request 1: If the answer to 2a is yes, please share some of those thoughts with us if you care to at this time.
Question 3: Future tense seems to take place during a brief blackout Goliath experiences. Did it take place between Avalon and Manhattan immediately preceding The Gathering?
Question 3a: If the answer to 3 is no, when/where did Future Tense take place?
Question 4: Were there any destinations on the Avalon Quest that took place but were not shown in Gargoyles? In other words, might Goliath & Elisa have had a world tour adventure 'off camera?'
Request 2: If the answer to 4 is yes, please share one or two places that they were sent off camera, if you'd care to at this time.
Thanks very much for your time, and I hope to see you (have seen you by the time you read this) at The Gathering 2006.
1. Avalon only controlled their destinations upon LEAVING Avalon. But Goliath et al had to return to Avalon between each journey to try again.
2. Who can say? You may in fact be giving Avalon too MUCH credit... at least too much credit for FORETHOUGHT. If they had abandoned their quest in Prague or anywhere else, then some bad stuff might have happened where they DIDN'T show. But Avalon may not have cared WHERE the quartet were from. It might have continued to send them ad infinitum. At some point, I think it's fair to say, "Hey, I've been playing nice. But I'm home now and enough is enough."
2a. I suppose. I had stories in mind for China and Korea at least at the time. But honestly, I long ago readapted them in my head to suit where the World Tour did end.
Request 1: Shared all I'm going to at this time. BUT KEEP BUYING THAT COMIC!! ;)
3. I don't have my timeline with me, but the short answer is yes.
3a. See above.
4. Yes, they definitely did.
R2: I've mentioned the Himalayas in the past. But that's all I'm gonna say at this time.