A Station Eight Fan Web Site
My "Hunter's Moon Part 1 Ramble"
This is the only HM I've seen ( I don't know if any of you remember, but ABC family stopped showing Gargoyles after HM2-talk about a mean cliff hanger for the curfue-challenged!)
Me and my friend Danielle have always refered to what you called "the barn" scene as the apple scene, due to Demona's lovely table manners (yuck!)
I saw this one before City of Stone, but it was still very easy to follow. I noticed, however, in this flashback she's seems more middle aged than she did in CS. (Oh, the wrinkles. The stress of her life as a guilt-ridden refugee does NOT cause her to age very well, does it? I recall yelling something along the lines of "Macbeth, Macbeth, where for art thou, Macbeth?! Come forth and give this poor soul thy youth so my eyes can stop BLEEDING!" at the screen.)
Kids can be so cruel.
Danielle (who had already seen every episode) pointed Elisa in her wig before I really registered her. I think I suspected, though.
I still remember the commercials with "concerned citizens with wings" tagline. Oh, for the good old days!
Being preteen girls, we were really more concerned about how hot Jason was to really establish whether or not he was evil. I think Dani had already told me, but until I discovered TGS we never realized that Robyn was the girl Hunter, so I can't be sure. (don't take this too personally-sometimes I wonder what Gargoyles Danielle has been watching. When I first started to pump her about "Sanctuary", she told me Thailog had put a spell on Demona so that she would have amnesia during the day and she actually fell in love with Macbeth, only to remember him when she turned into a gargoyle after the wedding and pounce on him. ???? I think she may have just been trying to save my feelings or something, since at that time I thought McB and D were meant to be.)
In any case, we were too busy quibbling over who got Jason to really pay much attention to the scene (Danielle: Dude, he's so cute, I want him! Me: But you already called dibs on Xanatos! You can't have both! Dani (rolls eyes): Oh, fine, whatever. But you know he gets shot, right? Me: SO?)
Your the Greg Master. If gargess is a word, so is denially. :)
Okay, Brimstone Inc? DIERDRE (is that even French?) Greg, honey, can I just whole-heartedly thank you for having these names changed? I don't know, I guess it's because I'm so used to Nightstone and Dominique but both of the other one's just seem so- dry and corprate. Which I guess is the point, but it just didn't SUIT her (or Thailog, for that matter.) Plus I really love the name Dominique Destine. It's so brillant in it's irony- Demona always tries to dominate her destiny, but destiny just always seems to dominate HER.
Cut to Robyn. I remember this scene vividly, as it is was my first time seeing Demona in her human form. (Danielle: That's Demona. *camera angle moves* Me-pointing at Robyn-:The blonde one? *camera angle moves back* Danielle-pointing at DD-: No, you idiot, the redhead!)
Opps. Danielle and I both loved Robyn. Many a dull afternoon was spent making up stories about a forbidden corprate romance between she and Owen, given both of their stiff demeanors. I was crushed when I found out she wasn't really a mild-mannered assistant. I even thought for awhile that you picked the name Robyn after Puck's alias in "A MidSummer Night's Dream." It still works out pretty good, I think. (Did you ever notice the whole Robin Goodfellow thing?)
One line that I loved that you left out of your ramble was when Dominique was threatening Rutherford (is that his name? I'm not sure where I got that from, but I hear it referenced from time to time.) She dangles him by the neck (unless my memory is exaggerating) and yells at him for some screw up or other, glances over her shoulder at the setting sun and says, "You're lucky I treat my employees with dignity and respect."
This right before she throws him bodily from the room. I love it. Classic Demona. I was cracking up so hard I barely remember the transformation, just a ripped suit and her panting, "Do it yourself." Commercial.
Totally never thought they'd kill off Angie (um, I believe Dani might have mentioned something earlier about that whole "CPR- the gift that keeps on giving" line before I watched this, but I can't remember. If I hadn't had prior knowledge, I still don't think I would have thought her dead.)
I think this was one of the first 10 episodes I'd ever seen (surely one of the 1st 20), so I didn't completely understand what a big deal it was to see Goliath crave vengence like that. They attacked his daughter, and given what we normally see in cartoons it seemed like a natural course of action to seek retrubtion (spelling, yet again)
But of course, Gargoyles is NOT an ordinary cartoon. And in hindsight, oh boy- POWERFUL words, man. They had to be spoken. At some point, Goliath NEEDED to be confronted with the same emotional trails that corrupted Demona. So he could rise above them, and become a better garg for it.
Like Demmie goes on to say, they're really not that different, when it comes down to it.
Which kinda gives you both fear (for him) and hope (for her.)
P.s.: Saw "F for Facades" last night. Tell your brother kudos for me. It rocked! Hope the Weisman bloodline continues to thrive in writing and more. :)
As I assume you know, we stuck with Dominique and Nightstone. And, yep, I'm aware of the Robin Goodfellow name. But the name Rutherford means nothing to me.
And thanks, I'll pass the word on to Jon.
When will W.I.T.C.H. season 2 come on Russian Jetix, cause i dont have english jetix, toon dysney or family ABC. I only have Russian jetix configured too English and it only has W.I.T.C.H. season 1.
I have no idea. Sorry.
For starters, let me say thank you for introducing the world to Gargoyles; it's an incredable series.
Now for the question; do you think that in the later future you would want to create a live-action film for Gargoyles? In hollywood today, there are many tv shows that are revived to become incredible films; do you believe Gargoyles would be one of them?
I think it would be great. For more info on the history of the Live-Action Gargoyles Movie... CHECK THE ASK GREG ARCHIVES under "LIVE-ACTION MOVIE"!
Thanks for the ramble on "Hunter's Moon Part One", Greg. Here are a few comments on it.
I liked the opening flashback with Gillecomgain, filling in a little more about him - such as his very unpleasant father. And we see Gillecomgain vowing to wipe out the entire gargoyle race (over a few facial scars that a single gargoyle gave him - this is a definite case of "a life for an eye", so to speak).
One of the things that I like about "Hunter's Moon" is the feature that you mentioned - those deliberate hearkenings back to "Awakening". (And Season One in general as well - Elisa gets saddled with a new partner by Chavez and is initially less than thrilled about it, there are mentions of the Daily Tattler and the urban legend about alligators in the sewers, the robbery that Elisa and Jason break up is in the same area where Dracon's gang stole the particle beam accelerators from Xanatos at the start of "Deadly Force", etc.) I liked the hearkening back with the gargoyles and Elisa again rescuing the yuppies (and a few other familiar faces this time) from those three street thugs - and the rescuees being ungrateful as usual. (I also get a kick out of Margot saying "Great idea, Brendan. Ride the subway, meet interesting people." Well, they did get to meet a lot of interesting people, many of whom had wings.)
I didn't recognize Elisa until her blonde wig came off - and I'd already seen that wig in "Turf". I really need to be more observant.
One tidbit in Demona's interview with Robyn that I get a kick out of is that Robyn's references are from Edinburgh, Florence, and the Sorbonne - and the flashbacks of the three parts of this story are set in Scotland, Florence, and Paris.
I did get the brief visual joke of Broadway and Lexington looking accusingly at Brooklyn (and nice echo back to the incident with Vinnie's motorcycle).
One of my favorite details in Part One is the Hunters' robot falcon - pity that we didn't get to see it again.
I can no longer remember what my initial thoughts were about Jason when he showed up - or if I even connected him (or Robyn or Jon) with the Hunters in Part One. I did pick up on the way that the Canmores' aliases all began with a hard C, the same as their real surname. (Jumping ahead - that's why I suspected right away, when I first saw "The Journey", that Castaway was linked to the Canmores, the moment that I heard his name.)
One thing that I *definitely* remember was my response to Goliath's vow at the end of Part One to kill the Hunters. I was absolutely horrified at him - so much so that I was worrying far more about it than over whether Angela was going to live or not.
Now I'm looking forward to your rambles on Parts Two and Three....
That shock value at the end of the episode was exactly what we were going for. And a good example of how great an S&P executive Adrienne Bello was. No S&P exec I've worked with before or since would have let us use the word "kill".
Can you tell me how many new episodes have already shown on W.I.T.C.H, cause i haev only seen the first 4. And wanted to ask if any have come on.
They made 26 episodes for season one. And then I made 26 for season two. All 52 have aired (at least here in the U.S.).
I believe the song "Dance With The Gypsies" is played, uncredited, when
Johnny Depp and Juliette Binoche's characters are dancing with others
at a party at the river.
"Dances With The Gypsies" is performed by Stoney Larue or Bob Childers.
Can anyone confirm the song is used there?
Was that in "Protection" or "Silver Falcon"? I can't remember.
But first, a moment of glee. It's 'Gargoyles'! In a comic! By Greg! For real! Magnificent! Big, big, big thanks to all the people who made it happen.
I think I always kind of overlooked 'The Journey'. I always liked it, but it was always a bit of an odd duck, stapled onto the front of a season I didn't care for, a second ending after 'Hunter's Moon' which was an immensely satisfying conclusion. So now it's been many, many years since I saw the episode and although I can still rattle off most of the lines by heart, I'm still coming at it with something of a fresh perspective and, to some extent, seeing it as a creature in its own right rather than 'the last one before TGC' or 'the one after the Hunters'. A few things strike me.
Most obviously, 'Nightwatch' is really very dark indeed. Well, obviously. But there's no talk of journeys or Vinnie's redemption at this point, and read with David Hedgecock and Will Terrell's gloomy take on the city, it really does feel much more oppressive than the optimistic world Elisa introduced Goliath back in '94. It also puts the world tour in perspective a little for me, as seen against the long period where the show had been becoming much brighter and more optimistic than it had been before - the clan isn't alone! Goliath has a daughter! Heroes are awakening to their destiny! - the darker turn seems fitting and I'm interested to see how everything develops once the initial shock fades.
Right now in this issue there's a sense that the walls are coming in. No Faeries or robots or magic or many of the more fantastical elements of the show. No grand romantic statements from the leads, just affection in small ways - comforting each other. And the story says a lot about humans, and humans under fire. Fear, knee-jerk panic, anger, prejudice. It's very raw - especially since we don't have the balance offered by Vinnie's decision yet. It's also a little eerie to return to this story for the first time since some of the major terrorist attacks of the last few years: the story is, after all, in the wake of a major attack on a New York building, and I think the script captures that heady uncertainty of a long, dark night where the news is on loop and the world's turned upside down and everything doesn't seem quite so safe any more.
Despite what might have been a very choppy narrative, all the plots are beautifully intertwined: the newsreaders, the Quarrymen, the cops, the gargoyles, Xanatos and Elisa. Most of the supporting characters have only a couple of lines but each suggests a completely different take on "the gargoyles issue". The people investigating it, the people hiding the gargoyles, the people concerned for their families, the people hunting the gargoyles for vengeance, for pleasure, or worry, for a sense of social activism, out of a concern about science, the gargoyles wanting to keep a low profile, wanting to go about their business, and so on. Different characters, different viewpoints, different loyalties and agendas and levels of information - it's just incredibly sharp stuff. And the people who seemed to be comedy extras in past episodes are now active and outspoken and shaping events: in fact, thanks to the Nightwatch framing the gargoyles are presented as intruders into their life stories instead of the other way around as it's seemed in the past. It's intricate and marvelous.
The Hedgecock/Terrell Gargoylesverse feels a little murkier than we're used to. Part of this is the less distinct backgrounds in places, the more sketchy style; partly the colouring. It's a great interpretation of this script which fits the post-'Hunter's Moon' New York: a little stunned, a little on edge, a little depressed. But I can't help but think back to 'Awakening' and Elisa's comments on the beauty in the city. Although this episode is very bleak, I hope that at some stage when the shock of the gargoyles revelation dies down we'll get to see New York in a context that's a little less 'Gotham'.
But it's still lovely. The colours are moody and ominous, the art revels in the small scenes - I love Matt & Chavez and Elisa & Cagney; and the emotions of the characters in their normal conversations. The action seems to be very tightly framed with lots of close-ups, which gives the emotional stuff a lot of clout (which I love), though the fight scene felt perhaps a bit cramped in places and in the 'louder' scenes the characters seem slightly exaggerated in places.
All in all, I was very impressed by how much 'Nightwatch' got under my skin, even all these years after having seen 'The Journey'. While I always liked the episode, I would definitely rate this issue alongside my very favourites from the first two seasons for its sheer complexity and ambition and its sense of fear and confusion and hurt and a hundred emotions jumbled up.
- Adapting 'The Journey' works really well as a starting point. There's a lot going on in it and I wasn't sure it wouldn't become overwhelming to a new or casual fan of the sort I'm trying to hook on the comic. But I think most of the roles are pretty obvious (benefactor, cops, etc.) even if you're just looking with no pre-conceived ideas. A couple of the continuity references might be more of a stretch (I wonder what people who haven't seen 'Vendettas' will make of the banana cream pie!). But we only really see much of Goliath and Elisa at this point, and the social situation the gargoyles are being flung into is well-realised and a compelling entry point.
- The Art & Lois scene is new to me and it's very effective. It's funny because I saw the previews for this which ended with Goliath flying into a rage and although I was excited to read it, I had no preconceptions about what might follow. I just didn't really think about it, I wanted to wait and see it 'for real'. But somehow I found myself pleasantly surprised by Goliath's solution. It's not a new solution for him ('Deadly Force' and other episodes obviously spring to mind), but it's an effective one, a peaceful one, a dignified one, and it really gets to the nub of Goliath's character at a very early point. I like that even after feeling I've known the character for a decade, he can still pleasantly surprise me by, literally, his grace under fire.
- The monstrous Quarrymen-designed gargoyle amused me. Didn't the TGC version have an actual replica of Goliath or something? I always assumed Jon Canmore had it for some reason, or the Illuminati had provided it or something along those lines, but it seems more credible that the Quarrymen mock-up would just be a plain old scary monster. So now I'm guessing they used Goliath in the TGC version to save the cost of drawing up a new stone model? It also explains why the Quarrymen didn't recognise Goliath on the rooftop later (though Banquo ought to have, I'd have thought).
- Grigori, not Gregorino? Or is Vinnie just assuming an alias in case the Quarrymen are as unsavoury as he seems to fear even at this early stage? In any case, I like the name Grigori. It's got the in-joke, but it's not intrusive.
- Speaking of the Quarrymen, I always had trouble making out the line "no way you're fighting this hard if stone-face weren't the real thing..." in the cartoon. It sounded like "heart of stone" something. I think I worked it out eventually (or perhaps through Blaqthorne & Crimson Fury's transcript) but it's nice to see it in the text. And Banquo nearly said 'whore'. I guess this scene was one of the punch-to-the-face moments that was possible in S2 but which TGC got stopped from doing.
- The titles took a long while to grab me. I now quite like 'Nightwatch'; it seems to resonate on a lot of levels. 'Clan-Building' is kind of dull still. I admit, the traditionalist in me would kind of like it to be "The Journey" Part 1 & 2... 'just like 'real' episodes!'. Going to have to get used to the fact that it's a comic now. 'The Journey' was one of my favourite titles in the series, and although I realise it would probably not make much sense for #1 (since it's only really explained right at the end), I still really like it. I hope Part 2 is called 'The Journey'. Also, the nerd in me misses the nice, blue title font - it always gave me that 'new episode buzz' in the good old days, especially when a "part one" or something popped up after the first titles, and so it has a strong sentimental value. Okay, okay, I'll shut up about the titles now.
- Greg Guler's cover is ace. The colours are wonderful too. Deep and crisp and gorgeous.
- Also, on the colouring front, I especially liked the transition from day to sunset to night, with a darker twilight than the show sometimes had. There's a lot more red used in the comic as a whole than I remember of the cartoon and that gives a different flavour to scenes like the Quarrymen mob scene especially - maybe it makes it a little too on-the-nose, I'm not sure. I kind of liked my recollection of it with cool colours predominating -- the banality of evil or something like that.
- I felt the sweatdrop on Art was a bit on the cartoony side. I think 'Gargoyles' works best when it's kind of understated.
- I really love the page where Goliath flies over the head of Vinnie. A really memorable, iconic image. The original cartoon did this sort of thing a lot but with cuts and silhouettes and odd angles; the shape of an animation frame obviously isn't really useful for this sort of thing. This image is to me a nice encapsulation of... well, the series. Gargoyles trying to live their lives watching over humans who are blundering around uncertainly in the dark.
- One thing that I'm unsure about is the portrayal of Castaway, just in terms of artwork. He's very animated here - his hands-on-hips introduction, his psychotic expressions. This is where it's a case of me being used to one interpretation (the cartoon's) and suddenly questioning what I had assumed: how stable is Castaway? He's obviously not such a fruitcake that he puts off scared citizens from joining a violent organisation, but then again he set up the Quarrymen in the first place. Jon Canmore seemed to keep things close to his chest and then snapped. Does Castaway return to Canmore's very repressed attitude, or will his anger always be as close to the surface as some scenes here? My memories of the cartoon are quite different from the tone of the art here; the latter much angrier and more forceful and animated, the former slicker and more comforting. Incidentally, this is one of the best and most powerful speeches in the series. I just love the way the theme of community and 'aloneness' is threaded through the series.
- And one bare-faced quibble on the 'About Greg Weisman' page... it's 'Talespin', not 'Tail Spin'! Grr! :)
I just hope that by the time this post reaches the front of the queue the comic is a runaway success! Keep up the great work. :)
OMG, did I write "Tail Spin"? Hold on... Yep, it's in the comic. Let me check what I sent to SLG... DARN!! Yes, this is MY fault. <grrrrr>
Anyway, Ed, thanks for (otherwise) making me sound really good!
Finally got my copy of Gargoyles #1 (I'd ordered from Amazon.com, and it took them longer to get a copy to send me than I'd expected) in the mail today. I thought that I'd give you my thoughts on it.
While most of the material was familiar to me from "The Journey" (of course, it's been nine years since I last saw it - I never taped any of the Goliath Chronicles), there were some new things that I liked in it, such as Matt's meeting with Chavez and Goliath's encounter with Art. (The latter gave us another one of those rare moments when Goliath displays a sense of humor, when he lets Art keep his gun - now twisted into a spiral shape.) And, on the smaller level, Vinnie's remarks during Castaway's Quarrymen recruitment speech (I was particularly amused by his "Well, I don't got kids" line).
I'll probably be saying this again when/if you do a ramble on "The Journey", but I get a big kick out of Castaway's speech and all the ironies in it. First, he talks about how his audience is struggling with such problems as "violence, racism, injustice..." - while signing them up for an organization that typifies all three. Then he asks them "Are you afraid these creatures will attack while you sleep?... Are you afraid they will steal your children away?" When reading those lines, I find myself remembering two things: first, gargoyles clearly fear also that humans will attack them in their stone sleep (and they have even better reason for that fear - a sleeping human has some possibility of waking up in time to save himself or herself, but a sleeping gargoyle is doomed unless the would-be gargoyle-killer made the mistake of attempting to smash him or her at sunset), and second, in "The Reckoning", Demona views Princess Katharine and the Magus taking the gargoyle eggs away to Avalon as "steal[ing] our young". And finally, Castaway constantly uses the word "alone" in his speech - when I remember where I last heard that word in "Gargoyles" in a significant moment, it's definitely chilling. Kudos to you for writing that part.
I'm assuming, also, that you've got more liberal S&P on the comic than you did on television, in light of what Banquo called Elisa (no wonder she interrupts him with a punch and "shut up"!).
I'm looking forward to #2, and hope that the comic has a long run.
I do (so far) seem to have slightly more liberal S&P than Goliath Chronicles had from ABC and perhaps even than what we had on the first two years.
Thanks for rambling again (at the time of this post)! Always enjoyable.
No Gathering 2006 report I'm afraid. I was stuck back East starting a new job (well, returning to an old job) and helping to pump water out from my home's flooded basement (my understanding is that L.A. doesn't have to worry about getting 14 inches of rain in three days - we here in the Mid-Atlantic do).
Fun stuff, let me tell you.
However, I'm glad y'all had a good time and I'm pretty darn sure I'll be able to make '07 (though by the time you read this, we'll have probably known the outcome of this prediction for some time).
Anyway, rambling aside, I do have something of potential value to offer - my personal review of the comic, which after weeks of hunting for (all places in my area which ordered it sold out of no fewer than two orders, and the place I asked to order it from, um, forgot to and then, in a CYA move, insisted that the comic was not coming out in June) and eventually waiting for two weeks after ordering direct from SLG, "Gargoyles #1" is in my hands.
On the whole, I like it. I think you did a good job of adapting what we saw on screen to the pages and providing a way for new fans to get acquainted with what's going on. Of course, what's fun for me is seeing in print what I had the honor of acting out as ART back in Montreal during Radio Play, but I digress. The story's well-paced and moves along nicely, but I'm going to hold back on really looking at the writing aspect until *very* new material starts coming out. I have THE JOURNEY so internalized that I don't think I can be objective in a review of it.
As for the art, I think it's clear that David is still working with getting the models down, but some panels particularly demonstrated that he has the ability to nail it down. He seems to be more comfortable with up-close work than whole characters or multiple characters, but it's clear that he has the potential to pull it off. Right now, consistency is the major issue I have - some panels are great, others not so. I don't think it's off-putting by most measures, though I suspect those with a keener eye for art would be able to find more to take issue with. However, I'm going to remain optimistic that the art will improve with each issue.
I like the comic, I'm glad it's out, but again I'll wait until we're really in "uncharted" territory before I roll out deeper reviews (and might even, for once, have questions to ask).
And... that's all. Take care and I'll hopefully see you in '07 (or '08 if you get this closer in that neighborhood). :)
P.S.: Oh, in answer to your question on my '04 journal, "How did Leo get home?" He stayed in Montreal another day or two and flew out from there.
Now I'm done.
I'm caught up enough here at ASK GREG that I still don't know if you will make it to '07. Planning to come?
Posts: 2 35. Re: W.i.t.c.h. in the U.S.A. | 06/20/2006 7:32am
A hint I would love to give most corporations who are interested in markets by gender on the TV: Despite it being an action based series, with fighting and good verses evil, if it has female main characters, heroes, ect. It has a female audience. Period. There are girls out there who enjoy action, adventure, and seeing their heroines focusing their attention beyond cosmetics and boys. It is extremely biased to assume that all females love to see cartoons on the newest hair accessory. More over, it's biased to assume that only males enjoy action cartoons.
They can keep W.I.T.C.H. as it is, it doesn't need a "makeover" to appeal more to females for merchandising, nor does it need its more female relationship aspects toned down to keep it a male focused show. They tried to tone down the female aspects in Card Captor Sakura on Warner Brothers and look what happened.
Fans would appreciate it if the companies, who are broadcasting the cartoon/animation, would not mess with the original version more then absolutely necessary, and means of marketing are not such reasons.
Understandably this isn't marketed on the main stream Disney because it doesn't follow the same kind of animation produced for the main stream. Its more anime like, and thus gets anime status on a circuit that doesn't show random episodes, but the order of the episodes. Thus Jetix. Cartoon network did something similar with Toonami and the new Maguzi. The problem is they focus on action, and thus assume only male base audiences. The reason why they seem action like is they actually follow a somewhat coherent story, unlike other such shows, like Jake Long and Lilo and Stich, which although they have a story line and an order of episodes, they don't need to be played one right after the other to make sense, they work beautifully as individual episodes. As such they are easier to present to America as very few people have the dedication to actually track a series to find the next newest episode to continue the plot.
The only problem the Fundamentalists running America would have with this show is A: its name (Witches have been their enemies for ages. B: the Elemental basis on power (too earthy and pagan like for them) C: where that power comes from, they weren't exactly born with it, it comes with age, and was not granted to them by a single deistic power. Thus the show must be teaching immoral lessons on power and encouraging some kind of nature worship. In addition there is a female power focus. All the main high power characters in this show are female. The guardians, their mentor, the principal, while the King was bad, the Queen is good ect. A few exceptions, the rebel leader and the Oracle are both male, but you get the gist. Despite all this however they really shouldn't have much of a problem with the show. It's not like the fundamentalists to attack anything unless it shows a considerable threat to their cause (IE Harry Potter).
For fear of rambling I shall stop now. But keep WITCH on.
It's not up to me. You know that, right?