A Station Eight Fan Web Site
: « First : « 25 : Displaying #75 - #99 of 134 records. : 25 » : Last » :
Posts Per Page: 1 : 10 : 25 : 50 : 100 : All :
This question is a little complicated, so please bear with me...
You refer to Talon, Maggie, Fang, and Claw as Mutates, in this case mutated through chemical reactions. The changes to the Mutates are obviously not comestic or superficial. Their musculature, their organs, their bones, their tissues... all of these must have been altered, or else such things as flying, glowing eyes, and electric abilities would be impossible. To put it simply, their very DNA was changed.
Then a "cure" could not truly exist. If their DNA itself was altered, as it must have been to make them as they are, they would need something to restructure it back to its original form in order for them to be "cured". Alterations to deoxyribonucleic acid are permanent, and they cannot revert to a previous form. They must be recreated into a new one.
So was Sevarius merely tricking Maggie and company when he said he had a cure? I mean, he could probably create something that could restructure her DNA back into that of a human... but unless he could somehow use a cell sample from her to redesign it to her OWN human form, I don't see how she could ever be truly "cured". Could you please clarify this for me?
Thank you.
I have no comment, other than to say that obviously Sevarius can't be trusted.
[1] You've said before that you had "marriage, etc" in store for Maggie and Talon. I agree that what-ifs are impossible to deal with, but I'm curious to know if they'd ever have ended up together if it weren't for Gen-U-Tech. From the little we saw of their early interpersonal mechanics (I think that's how it's put), all they seem to have in common is their horrifying experience with Sevarius. Shared trauma can be a mightily powerful attracting force, but it just doesn't seem like a strong foundation on which to build a relationship.
It's not merely the old "leader gets the girl" cliche, I'm sure -- the qualities that make Derek a good leader (and XE recruit) would make him quite the catch. But love isn't one-sided. Maggie really is a sweetheart (steel-core and all), and seems exactly the kind of person to balance out the rougher aspects of Talon's personality (and boy does he have a lot). In the beginning, though, does she have much going for her other than a waifish vulnerability, innocence (or naivete, your call), and, well... a nice rack? (I'm not too sure if the so-called catgirl mystique counts -- that's pretty hard to pin down.)
Now, I think Derek and Maggie make a cute couple, and I admit I'm probably just spoiled by the near-perfect matchups of E+G and F+D. So why question a good thing? It's just that they've already shown how good they are at self-deception. For the sake of romance, I hope they aren't just fooling themselves again. :)
[2] What does the Maza family think about their son/brother and Maggie living together?
[3] Not that I expect an answer for these, but... a) Is the Maza name going to be passed on to T&M's hypothetical children? b) Will it die out with the current generation? (Not necessarily the same question :))
1. No, they clearly would not have ended up together, I think. But that doesn't mean they aren't right for each other. Nor does it mean they may not have some rocky times ahead.
2. They're fine with it. Particularly given what's happened to Derek, they're happy he has someone to share his life and problems with.
3a. Maybe.
3b. It doesn't die out.
Those form-fitting spandex suits the Mutates wear are probably a lot more practical than "tattered street clothing", but they don't look very comfortable. (Especially with all that fur underneath.) Do the new threads simply look better as a Kenner action figure? Foster a needed sense of team spirit? Inhibit static electricity? (An ever-present concern in the dry New York climate, I imagine.)
What spandex?
I just watched _Metamorphosis_ again, and I have a load of new questions...
1) Why did Talon, Fang, and Claw take on new names? I guess it emphasizes their abandonment of their old lives, and Talon already had come up with it, and Fang probably thought it sounded cool, and Claw's better than nothing... but it's so jalepenin' Super-hero!
2a) What do people call Talon when he's around? And when he's not around? (Actually, maybe I should just ask "Who does call Talon 'Talon'?") 2b) Is his family weirded out by his name change?
3) Just some commentary. Unlike 'Fang' and 'Claw', 'Talon' seems to have raptorial rather than predatory connotations. (Bird vs. Beast, kinda.) Any significance to this? Keeping in with the metaphor, though, would make him 'Tooth' -- OK, maybe a little too Flying Dentist to go over well. :) I liked 'Catscan' from your development notes, but I suppose it wouldn't fit with the current backstory.
4) When Maggie was still trying to make her break, was she thinking about changing her name to something more show-bizzy or sophisticated? That'd add an interesting undertone to her later restraint. (Then again, it looks like Maggie's now set herself up to be mono-named a la Madonna or Cher... or, come to think of it, Fox :D.)
1. You answered your own question. Talon was initially, if briefly, trying to hide his identity from his sister. Later it represented his new life. Fang thought it was cool. Claw couldn't or wouldn't talk, and us humans just have to name everyone. So they gave him the name.
2a. Everyone calls Talon Talon except for the Mazas, and sometimes Maggie.
2b. It's the least of it, of course.
3. He has talons on his hands. He was looking down at his hands when he came up with the name.
4. Maggie didn't want to leave her old life behind, so she kept Maggie. But now it's short for Maggie the Cat, which is a nickname that the inhabitants of the Labyrinth use.
Okay, I've been trying to find a way to ask this without tripping over the original ideas restriction. Here goes:
In Metamorphosis, Sevarius says something like: "Aren't you surprised we managed to pull it off at all? It took months of forcing the early test subjects to escape without the gargoyles encountering even one."
What's he talking about?
Before Broadway and Brooklyn found Maggie in that alley, Sevarius was allowing Fang and Claw and (briefly) Maggie, to periodically escape. Xantos' security squad would give them time at night to run around and attract attention, hoping that the gargoyles would either stumble on them or here about them and seek them out. At first they had remarkably little luck. Finally, Broadway and Brooklyn stumbled on Maggie. Once that happened, the rest of the plan could be put into effect.
Why'd Cyberbiotics have a hidden underground base? ('Doesn't everyone?' Right. :P) So why and when did they abandon it?
They had a hidden underground lab, as a precaution against industrial espionage. That lab was destroyed by a fire at the same time that Fortress-1 went down. Renard could not afford to redeploy both locations. So the underground lab/complex was abandoned.
were the mutates eyes supposed to glow like the gargs or was this an animation mistake?
They were supposed to.
1a) What had Sevarius actually concocted at the end of "The Cage"? b) What would have happened to Maggie had she drunk it?
I like the ambiguity, so I'm not going to answer.
can the mutates fly like bats or only glide like gargoyles?
Fly.
in "the cage" talons eyes glow like the gargs eyes. was this intentional or an animation mistake?
Only in "The Cage"?
Will there be any more mutates in the future besides the 4 already present?
Yes.
Don't forget Wolf, for starters.
Would Talon and Maggie ever have any kids of their own?
not saying this time
You said something earlier on that in Bad Guys Fang's family will be introduced. My questions are
1) Did Fang ever have any kids when he was human?
2) If Fang had a child how would that child respond to his/her father since now that he is a bat winged couger man?
1. not saying
2. not saying
In the episode Metamorphisis Dr. Sevarius fires a dart containing mutagen at Xanatos but Derek got in front of Xanatos and the dart hit him instead. Even though Xanatos and Sevarius were just acting the scene to fool Derek so he will be turned into a bat winged panther man, my question is what would have happened if Derek never got in front of Xanatos in time and the dart containing the mutagen hit Xanatos instead of Derek? How would Xanatos respond to Sevarius if the dart hit him turning him into a mutate instead of Derek?
It wouldn't have hit Xanatos, because Sevarius was never really aiming at Xanatos. But past him, over his shoulder, more toward Derek. If Derek got himself anywhere in the vicinity, Sevarius would have made sure to nail him -- as he did.
what had happened to claw's wings in future tense?
where was fang by that time? dead?
1. Something horrible that Puck left to Goliath's imagination.
2. Sure. Dead. Why not?
What are Talon's five favorite movies?
I don't know. (Have you posted a lot of these?)
January of '92 was a busy month for Gargoyles Developers. Tad was working on other projects. Maybe Darkwing Duck (if "LP" below stands for "Launchpad"). But he was still helping us out with advice on our show. As I noted earlier, some of Fred Schaefer's villains were problematic. Too dark even for our series. I tended to agree with Tad about Catscan (the proto-Talon). But we did wind up incorporating a bit of the attitude that Tad was concerned about into Fang. (Which makes Catscan the proto-Talon, proto-Sevarius and proto-Fang all rolled into one.)
[2] From: Tad Stones 1/17/92 8:25AM (712 bytes: 11 ln)
To: Greg Weisman
Subject: Cat-scan
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Read the villain stuff on Cat Scan. Considering I'm getting notes from Michael Webster about cutting scenes that show LP littering, and GK is worried about doing gags about coffee and showing a gorilla wearing a dress ... do you really want to portray a character who's pumped up by violence, who says he's never felt more alive than when he was fighting?
Even though he's a villain, he's attractive because he's smart and powerful. I think this guy is over the line, however fuzzy that line is.
Would Talon and Maggie have an actual wedding?
Yes.
Hi. I'm back from my sojourn in Louisiana (hi Green Baron). And it's time to continue our reprinting of old development documents from the show...
This one features two villains, Catscan & Shard, that were created by Fred Schaefer, who coincidentally traveled with me in New Orleans this past week. Catscan would eventually split into Sevarius and Talon. Shard would fade away -- too violent and without enough imagination or flare to make the cut.
[Read: GDW 1/15]
THE GARGOYLE -- VILLAINS
(Schaefer 1-13-92)
DISTRIBUTION: Cranston, Fair, Felix, Guler, Kline, Krisel, Ryan, Stones, Weisman
CAT SCAN -- Part man; part panther. Has a muscular, taut, and sleek body. Walks upright most of the time, but can hit some whopping speeds on all fours. His powerful hind legs allow him to leap from one rooftop to another. He also has x-ray night vision, which is capable of duplicating objects (living or non-living) in 3-D. He uses these convincing (if short-lived) holograms as decoys to fool his enemies. He's highly dangerous (razor-sharp claws and teeth), and can kill very quickly. [Greg wrote: "Fitting the name/ May not fit origin" beside this paragraph.]
FIRST EPISODE INTRODUCING CAT SCAN
Dr. Grun is a shamelessly ambitious scientist doing top secret research on vision -- human vs. animal -- for Xavier's corporation. Xavier is involved in developing a highly-advanced "night vision" for jets and a new revolutionary decoy device using holograms. Unfortunately, Dr. Grun's experiments requires an enormous amount of animal research. Mostly on wild cats.
One day, an animal rights group infiltrated his lab. [I underlined this sentence and wrote "Makes them villians".] A violent clash ensues; Dr. Grun accidentally receives a massive dose of his own newly developed x-ray, a controversial device that melds CAT Scan technology with genetics. [I circled "CAT" and wrote "abbreviation has nothing to do w/Cats."] He's hospitalized in Xavier's in-house medical center.
Dr. Grun's body begins to undergo some drastic and extremely painful mutations. Slowly, he turns into a panther/human. He becomes angry, bitter, self-denigrating -- his career as a scientist is over! [I wrote: "Why"] Xavier becomes angry (and sickened by Grun's pathetic self-loathing; remember, powerlessness is Xavier's biggest fear); he reprimands Dr. Grun, telling him that he has acquired skills that no other human possesses. He is powerful and dangerous. Xavier wants to recruit him in his villain team.
At first, Dr. Grun is mortified. The life of a criminal is no substitute for the intellectual life of a scientist! Indignant, Dr. Grun storms out of Xavier's headquarters. That night, while wandering through dark back alleys, Dr. Grun is hounded by a beggar. In a fit of fierce anger (coupled with his feelings of frustration and self-revulsion) he lashes out and attacks the man. The Gargoyle comes to the man's rescue. He and Dr. Grun battle. Dr. Grun escapes.
Safe from the Gargoyle, Dr. Grun reflects on the violence. Surprisingly, he admits that he's never felt more vigorous in his entire life. Pumped up. visceral. ALIVE!!!! (He returns to Xavier as the self-proclaimed CAT Scan, and joins his team.)
THE SECOND EPISODE FEATURING CAT SCAN
[I crossed this out and added an arrow to the paragraph below to move it up with the previous.]
CAT Scan confronts the Gargoyle while trying to pull off one of Xavier's crimes. CAT Scan has been waiting for this moment ... a chance to face his very first opponent again. Only this time, he's more powerful and more skillful at using his CAT Scan vision. It's a tough, grueling fight.
CAT Scan loses, but not by much. He vows to get even. The score is not settled.
THE THIRD EPISODE FEATURING CAT SCAN
CAT Scan discovers that the raid on his lab a long time ago was a hoax perpetrated by Xavier himself. It was no accident that Dr. Grun was dosed by the replicating device. Xavier's rationale was: who better to understand and deal with the psychological stress of becoming a panther than a man who's studied wild cats all his life. A man who understands the physical effects of genetic mutations and the capabilities of the advanced CAT Scan x-rays. Dr. Grun was simply a tool ... and now he's a freak. An enslaved freak. He decides to kill Xavier.
The Gargoyle now finds himself in the odd position of protecting Xavier from CAT Scan. In the end, though, CAT Scan is defeated again.
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE ...
SHARD -- Randall Craig is a New York window cleaner. He's a large man, and yet has an amazing sense of balance; his bulk belies his agility. He's comfortable scaling skyscrapers and definitely not afraid of heights. Some of his coworkers think he's a little too casual on the job.
Although bulky, he's really a shy, somewhat innocent-looking man. A man who's hiding a deep secret: he has an uncontrollable violent streak in him that's triggered when he's being mocked, condescended to, or is ridiculed. Unfortunately, his co-workers make fun of him all the time, but he resists smashing their skulls in because he doesn't want to get fired. [By this section, I wrote: "We all feel this way".] He internalizes his rage and late at night releases it on innocent victims on the streets of New York. [By this I wrote: "can't be to [sic] uncontrollable".]
One day on the job, he cracks up. He crashes through the window of an office tower and beats the [expletive delted] out of an executive who he thought was mocking him as he worked. The broken glass severely scars his face. He's fired.
Plastic surgery can correct the damage, but he decides that he ' likes his new look -- the scars, covering most of his face, resemble a shattered mirror or window. [By these last two paragraphs, I wrote: "Won't be able to do this".]
After the incident he becomes a recluse. He always was an outsider, a loner, but now he disappears for a long period of time. When he resurfaces, it's as a maniacal, senseless murderer. Now he has an "occupation" that people will respect ... even fear. It's hard to be condescending the moment before you're murdered!
Shard spends his nights scaling skyscrapers. When-he sees his next victim, he swoops down on a rope and snatches them from the sidewalk. As he climbs up the building (to the rooftop where his crimes are committed), his victims quickly stop struggling. They are so high up, so quickly, that they don't want him to let them go. Unfortunately, they don't know what awaits them on the roof.
At the scene of Shard's crimes (always on the top of skyscrapers, leaving the police puzzled about how the killer and the victim got up there without anyone noticing them), he leaves a shard of glass -- perfectly clean, like a diamond; no fingerprints, no smudges. And as sharp as a knife. His repeated murders make the headlines of the New York Times.
Xavier relishes the mystery and the ferocity of the killer's crimes, so he sends his men out to track him down before the police do: Xavier wants him on his team! [I circled the word "team" and put a question mark beside it.]
One night, Shard swipes one of Xavier's men and begins scaling a skyscraper to the man's final resting place -- on the roof! The Gargoyle tries to save the man (unknowingly saving one of Xavier's henchmen); a high wire fight ensues; Xavier shows up in a helicopter, joins in the battle against the Gargoyle, but all of the villains are defeated... just barely.
Later, Shard is confronted by Xavier who is eager to recruit him. Shard, however, is furious and almost drops Xavier off the side of a building: he doesn't need him; the world doesn't need him; the world has Shard! Xavier, however, is amused with Shard's look on life. He can't help but laugh. Here is a man who understands ego and power! (Of course, Xavier concludes, he's not bright enough to properly use it; that's why he needs Xavier.) Shard thinks Xavier is laughing at him, so he drops him from the building top. Halfway to the ground, Xavier's saved by his helicopter. Undaunted, apparently not even angry that Shard almost killed him, Xavier laughs out loud and vows to recruit Shard one day... one day.
THE SECOND EPISODE FEATURING SHARD
Well, that day comes soon enough. Cut to the action: Shard is trapped; he's going to be captured by the Gargoyle. Only Xavier can save him, but he'll do so only if Shard vows to work for him. Reluctantly, he agrees, and is saved by Xavier, who laughs demonically at his catch. Shard is having second thoughts...
[I wrote: "Xavier doesn't have to be in everything".]
How would Fang come to join the Redemption Squad: I mean, would he escape the Labyrinth first or have to be broken out, as in "THE RECKONING"?
Not telling. But it involves Sevarius.
Why are the Mutates referred to as such? I mean, the more obvious name would be Mutants. Was this name not used so as to not be confused with the X-Men mutants?
Not really. Mutants are born that way. It's literally a term from biology. Mutates are "mutated".
Where exactly Is the Labrynth located? If in New York City, is it in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Statan Island, or the Bronx? Or is it located just outside the city, like Long Island or New Jersy or something?
Under Manhattan mostly... but it extends...
You've said that the mutates are capable of true flight, unlike the gargoyles who can only glide. Is this b/c of their energy boost from the electricity thing, or a result of their design, or some other reason?
The former.
METAMORPHOSIS
I have a thing for cat-like characters as well. Catwoman from Batman has always been one of my favorite characters. So I liked the mutantes a lot. I love the electric eel thing too, it was very cool and very different. I like Talon's attitude. And Fang was a nice addition. I like Claw, but wish I could have seen more of him in the series. Maggie was a slight disappointment, mainly cause we didn't get to see her grow as much. They all seem to accept their new form later in the series, enjoy it even. Maggie was very different from the other mutants. She was more afraid, unsure, cautious...can't blame her. I am getting ahead of myself with this episode into other mutant episodes...but oh well...Maggie is very weak at first. Like a scared little kitten really. Very different from all the other strong female characters.
I think this episode also defined the moment for Brooklyn and all Brooklyn fans from then on. Here's ya got a handsome young gargoyle, who loves this new "gargoyle-like" creature and she blows him off, calling him a monster, even though she resembled a gargoyle. Then she runs to Talon. So ya got this sympathy for Brooklyn. Cause Lex and Broadway didn't seem as interested in her as he was. Ya got Demona even, in Temptation, to me, I felt that when he started to trust her, he started to like her, then she betrays him horribly. Then later, Angela goes for Broadway, when a lot of fans, including me, thought it would be Brooklyn. And poor Brook get's upstaged again, by one of his best friends too. Not that I wasn't happy myself. Actually, I like Broadway/Angela better then Brooklyn with her. Broadway isn't so "pushy"...I am gonna get it from all them Brook fans...So Brooklyn grows slightly from this. It's been over a thousand years, most of those sleeping, but the waking, with no females, so ya got this 16 year old boy, trapped on an island and suddenly the only female blows him off. It's hard for him and he develops the jealousy with Talon.
I also was slightly surprised, but certainly not disappointed by the ending. It was perfect for the episode and I wouldn't want to see it any other way.
BTW, I like look you developed later for the the mutants as well.
It was because we had so many strong female characters in the series (including Elisa, Maria, Diane, Demona, Fox and Hyena) that we (myself, Michael Reaves, Brynne Chandler Reaves and Lydia Marano) felt comfortable to make Maggie weaker -- at least at first. In fact Brynne and Lydia seemed to really want to explore a character that freaked out more. That frankly, reacted more as you or I would. I do think she grew though. She'd never be another Elisa, but "The Cage" represented a turning point for her. And I think she demonstrated real strength in "Kingdom". Not a warrior's strength. But a wife's strength. And by "The Reckoning", even though she didn't have a line, she WAS taking her turn guarding the prisoners.
Of course, the real irony is that she has almost NOTHING in common with the original MAGGIE THE CAT from William's CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF. That didn't bother me. I appreciated the irony.
And don't worry too much about Brooklyn. Katana's a good match for him.
METAMORPHOSIS
Ah, one of my favs. Pity I missed it the first time it aired.
Throughout the second season, the show was on while I was still in school, so I had to tape it all the time. Three times the VCR, for one reason or another, failed to tape. Each time, the eps that aired were new ones--METAMORPHOSIS, THE CAGE, and KINGDOM (are you sensing a pattern here?). What made this twist of fate REALLY cruel is that these are some of my favorite eps. I love cats for one thing, so I was instantly attracted to the Mutates. This episode was also the one that cemented Brooklyn as my favorite character, so there's another. And, in two of the missed eps, Tim Curry, one of my (again) favorite actors, is featured.
Missing this ep didn't put me too far out of the loop. The only reference to it I picked up was Elisa's remark in EYE OF THE BEHOLDER that the Werefox was "human once, just like [her] brother." For some reason I didn't catch the reference to "mutated victims" and in OUTFOXED, after an initial "Huh?", I forgot about Renard's mention of some "Anton Sevarius" (keeping the strength of THAT revelation safe until the second time around). But, I digress. On with the ep itself.
Brooklyn's attraction to Maggie (whom I instantly recognized and grew interested in--what can I say, I have an affinity for cat-women) intrigued me. I always wondered if the fact that she wasn't a true gargoyle even mattered to him. Did I root for him and Maggie to get together? Not neccesarily. Did I *expect* it? Actually, yes. The attitude Brooklyn displays here is usually as deep as most animated shows go in depicting "love." After some intiial shock, my admiration for the series increased when Maggie wound up with Talon and Brooklyn's attraction was shown as just a crush. Regardless, his "love at first sight" mentality was something in Brooklyn I found appealing (a fellow hopeless romantic, perhaps). His experiences here and his final acceptance of the facts grabbed my notice and from this ep on, I always tended to favor him (though I made an effort not to do so at the expense of the other characters).
Looking at the ep, knowing what I know about the characters now, Brodway's ability to "read people" versus Brooklyn's self-delusion is very nicely juxtaposed, and they have some good exchanges. When Brooklyn tells Broadway "You don't know anything about her" there is much irony--Broadway knows more about her than Brooklyn does.
For what it's worth, I believed Xanatos (probably helped because I had seen EYE OF THE BEHOLDER before I got to see this). He seemed sincere enough to me, and mutation seemed ultra-slimy even for him. Boy was I surprised at the end. I was even more surprised by the end than by Sevarius' "death"--you guys had let people die in the series before, why not now? My surprise was tripled when I saw that Sevarius looked much younger and had a less thick accent than how he'd been played. I thought Sevarius the "mad scientist" was the real thing--he was voiced by Tim Curry who is usually thrown into the roles of over-the-top scientists and (in his own words) "east-European villains" so it was a pleasure to see a sort of send-up of type-casting in this. (And who couldn't recognize Sevarius? Even without the accent, he still had Tim Curry's inimitable pipes.)
The ending: Morbidly enough, this ending is one of my favorites because the good guys actually lost this round. Brooklyn's brooding and Elisa's crying really drove this point home. I am, strangly enough, reminded of a joke T-shirt: "Sometimes, the dragon wins."
And FINALLY! I now know who did the voice of the as-yet-unnamed Fang in this ep. I knew it wasn't James Belushi (it didn't have quite the same "growling" quality) but I couldn't for the life of me figure it out, something I can normally do. Truth be told, I would NEVER have guessed it was Jonathan Frakes (though now it seems so obvious to me). Still, the voices are similar enough, and even if they weren't, the Mutates' voices tended to change with their appearance (Rocky Caroll's (sp?) voice for Derek is different than his voice for Talon, and Kath Souci's voice for Maggie was slightly different in KINGDOM than for her first two appearances). But, nice trivia to know.
I hadn't really noticed how much the theme of self-deception was a factor in this, but it makes sense.
And yes, the animation is sub-par, but I just like the story so much I can live with it (and if I can live with the animation in KINGDOM, I think I can live with anything).
POINTLESS OBSERVATION> Not only does Hudson get left at the Clock Tower, but in this ep (as well as TEMPTATION) he doesn't get a single line). In fact his first words to Maggie are "Who's there?" in THE CAGE.
I'm sure there was more I wanted to say, but I think this message is thick enough already.
Very good observations.
We intentionally gave Derek & Talon and Maggie Reed & Maggie the Cat different edges to their voices. We wanted the Mutates (with the obvious exception of Claw) to sound a bit more growly than their previous human counterparts.
But Maggie shouldn't have sounded any different between the Cage and Kingdom. Are you sure you're not just responding to attitude, not voice. Clearly, Maggie doesn't really start to come into her own until Kingdom.
: « First : « 25 : Displaying #75 - #99 of 134 records. : 25 » : Last » :