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Aaron writes...
Hi Greg. Long-winded question, so bear with me.
One of the recurring themes of Western story-telling is that those who "tamper in God's domain", to borrow a phrase, will be struck down for their hubris. After the enterance of Frankenstein into our collective consciousness, one of the "rules" for Western literature is that Frankenstein must always be destroyed by his monster, for his arrogance in playing god.
The reason I bring this up, is that Xanatos is a man who seems to like playing god. And he has left a trail of monsters in his wake.
I'll ignore Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf for the purposes of this question, since it could be argued that they were already monsters who merely allowed their exteriors to be altered to match their true natures. (Although, it could also be argued that those three were tempted by David and his offers of power and vengeance, but at the end of the day, I still think they all damned themselves willingly)
I'd go so far as to even ignore the mutates, because even though they become monsterous looking, they really don't fit the bill as "monsters". They're just ordinary people who, by virtue of making some bad character judgements, find themselves with fur and wings. (Although it probably doesn't help Xanatos' karma any)
But even ignoring those two examples, you still have...
1. Coldstone. Such an obvious Frankenstein archtype that you joked about it. (The "It's alive! ALLLLLLLIVE!" sequence remains one of my favorites from the whole show) Of course, you could lay Coldstone at least partially at Demona's feet as well, so we'll move on.
2. Thailog. Grown in a lab, created with a mixture of different people, (Goliath's body and temper, Xanatos' mind and ethics, Sevarius'... libedo? Whatever accounts for Delilah) he turns almost immediately on his "fathers" You could call Thailog Sevarius' creature rather then Xanatos' except that David is the force behind his creation, and that Anton, for all his mad scientist posturing, could be seen as no more then a lab assistant, an Igor to David's Dr. Frankenstein.
3. The Coyote robot series. Xanatos' most personal "creature", the one to whom he gave his face (well, half of it) and voice. Loyal (?) to David for now, but unless forming the Ultrapack is David's idea, he presumably goes indepentant eventually. That, and we know he sets his sights on galactic domination in 2198, presumably not with his creator's blessing. (Then again, I could be wrong)
4. The Matrix. Created so that David and Fox could reshape the entire planet at their whim. If that's not arrogance, I don't know what is. Admittedly, I don't think it's becoming sentient along the way was part of the plan, and it's inclusion here might be a bit of a stretch, but I thought it was an example of Xanatos' hubris, if nothing else.
So, I guess, after all that lead up, my question is this: Would the pattern hold true? Would one (or all) of Xanatos' "creatures" come back to bite him in the ass later? As Elisa said "I wouldn't want Xanatos' karma."
There is a second part to this question, but I'll submit it separately, in case it's viewed as an idea.
Greg responds...
Well, for starters, I'd argue your premise. Victor Frankenstein's life was certainly decimated by the monster he created and abandoned -- but he survived the experience, sadder and hopefully wiser.
Moreover, it was the abandonment that was his true sin in Mary Shelley's original work. The creation was certainly hybris. But Shelley is pretty darn clear that she viewed the abandonment as worse. And I tend to agree. It's nature vs. nurture. The creature wasn't created evil. He was driven to it.
As to X's karma and whether it will all come back to bite him in the ass, I think the answer is clearly yes. But I really see it as a separate question. That is, it is a karma question more than simply a playing god question. That's one element. But only one. After all, one might argue that David and Fox were playing god by bringing Alexander into the world. But I wouldn't argue that. And I'm sure that's not what you had in mind.
So let's go through the numbers.
I tend to agree that Wolf, Hyena and Jackal built their own cages. And for the record, seem quite happy to live in them.
The Mutates seem to be following the same path as the gargoyles themselves. That is to say, that Xanatos woke the gargoyles, and has often suffered for it since. He then turned these four humans into mutates, and has had to suffer a bit (though admittedly not much) for that. It will be interesting to see Talon's post-Hunter's Moon reaction to Goliath and Co. moving back into the Castle. But the larger truth is that Talon, Maggie and Claw are making lives for themselves.
1. Coldstone. Well, yeah, duh. This is our Frankenstein's monster. But as with most things, Xanatos is too smart to truly follow in Victor's footsteps. He helps create the creature -- and certainly uses it -- but he never simply abandons it. And he also tries to balance (or bury) the Karmic scales, by helping out with Coldstone's Multiple Personality Disorder and by building Coldsteel and Coldfire.
2. Thailog. Here's the big threat, frankly. A guy with something to prove and three fathers to prove it all to. I think Xanatos hasn't seen the last of Thailog. One could argue that Thailog is the only guy to ever beat Xanatos at his own game (in Double Jeopardy). So the hybris of creating him has already bitten X's ass. But I doubt Thailog is through.
3. Coyote... I just don't want to reveal too much on this right now. Sorry.
4. I really think you have to chalk Matrix up to Fox's hybris (and competitive spirit) rather than to David's. She was certainly having the Matrix engineered for her and her man, but that doesn't mean that Xanatos was behind it. That would assume that she cannot operate independently. And I sure as heck wouldn't assume that about her.
So the short answer: yes. But it's all very nuanced.
Quasi writes...
I don't know if you've answered this cuz I can't seem to find it, but what are Fang's and Claw's real names?
Greg responds...
I haven't revealed Fang's real name yet. And in fact, I don't know Claw's real name. I've got it in my head that that is something we never learn.
Chris Velazquez writes...
If given the chance to revive the Gargoyles series, what role would you personally give to these mostly underused and/or underrated characters:
1. Fang- My favorite character, I wonder if he would be given the chance to become one of the typical " one-liner spitting good guy with bad attitude" character (something I would like) or become a mayor villain.
2. Maria Chavez- Would she ever meet the gargoyles?
3. Claw
4. Wolf
5. Delilah
Also, I would like to know how old Talon, Maggie, Claw and Fang are.
Greg responds...
What follows is not meant to be all-inclusive, but just a sampling of my plans...
1. Fang was destined to join "BAD GUYS". That is he was forced to either join Bad Guys or serve a life sentence in prison. He chose the former. For more info on BAD GUYS see the Bad Guys Archive here at ASK GREG, or come to next year's GATHERING in Montreal to see the Bad Guys' story reel for yourself.
2. Ever's a long time. But I had no immediate plans to change either her position or her role within the show. We would have learned more about her home life though, including her daughter.
3. Claw would have remained a mainstay in the Labyrinth, though he also would likely have guest-starred in BAD GUYS.
4. Wolf would have joined the Ultra-Pack.
5. Delilah would also have remained in the Labyrinth. She and Goliath would attempt to "date", but it wouldn't work out.
Finally, my timeline shows the following birth years:
Claw - 1954
Fang - 1968
Talon - 1970
Maggie - 1975
jjwspider writes...
>> Hey Greg,
Just out of curiousity(I hope to what ever god/dess that I spelled that right.) I was wondering why Sevarius did gene splicing to make the Mutates? I watched this thing on one of the educational channels and it said that humans have little bits of DNA from every animal in their DNA codes. So, why didn't Sevarius just activate the exsting genes in them? Or, did he by that gene splicing?
Well off to homework, "yeah".
Greg responds...
Sigh.
Anyone with a scientific background want to field this? Come up with an explanation that justifies what we put into the show?
Be my guest. <<
I believe that the reasoning here would be that as humans we contain DNA that is very similar to the DNA found in amimals (like proteins that have the same structure) but we don't contain the DNA of every animal per se. It may look like we do but that is just because of similarity of structure or similar proteins in our bodies. Sevarius spliced animal DNA to the mutates based upon which section of the animals DNA controlled a certain trait. But putting these DNA samples into their systems they eventually became grafted onto their own DNA structures, mutating the DNA, and causing their appearances to change in order to resemble their now changed genetic code.
I hope that helps Greg!
-Joe Wagner
Greg responds...
It does. Thanks, Joe. See, gang, the fans are always your first and best resource.
matt writes...
i have a suspicion that you'll prefer to keep the answers to these questions in mystery, but i'll ask anyway:
1. was the "cure" that Sevarius created in "Metamorphosis" an actual cure for the mutation?
2. was the "cure" that Sevarius created in "The Cage" an actual cure for the mutation?
3. will an actual "cure" for the mutation ever be created?
Greg responds...
1. No.
2. Not saying.
3. See above.
matt writes...
i recently saw on the Discovery Channel a show about the Electric Eel. it said that a healthy adult Electric Eel can deliver shocks of 700 volts, and i was wondering if the Mutates were capable of shocking with more or less than 700 volts? how many volts do you think?
Greg responds...
Matt, matt, you're not really asking me a numbers question, are you?
Dude, you should no better.
Vanity writes...
This is about the Light bulb contest, well more correctly the incident itself.
Fang was cracking at gargoyles right, I suppose thier intelligence or whatever. Why was Demona seemingly unoffended by that? While Goliath was atleast perhaps annoyed.
Greg responds...
It's possible that Demona had other things on her mind at that moment and wasn't paying attention.
It's possible, as Demona had been caged up beside Fang for weeks and weeks that she was long past the point of reacting to every damn thing he said. (Since any adult knows that reacting to an immature person saying stupid stuff is the best way to encourage that immature person to continue.)
King Cobra3 writes...
The Mutates.
1. Why is Claw always mute? Who would be hired to do his voice if it was ever decided he would talk?
2. Did Elisa ever meet Delilah?
3. What are Fang and Claw's real names?
Greg responds...
1. Trauma. Claw's never going to talk as far as I'm concerned. His muteness is fundamental to his character.
2. Eventually.
3. I honestly haven't given them real names yet, because it hasn't been necessary. But they do have real names.
adam writes...
in the labyrinth clan, who would be considered second after Talon?
Greg responds...
I don't think they are currently organized that way at this time. Ironically, by default, the answer might be Maggie. But I don't think it's formalized.
Chapter XXXIX: "Kingdom"
Time to get back to rambling...
Well, we've had our adventure in Avalon and made a couple stops on what I knew was going to be a long trip. Time to check in on the home front.
Only trouble is, as these things originally aired, this one actually didn't manage to get broadcast right here. It just wasn't ready in time, and we had enough trouble airing reruns without holding up episodes that were ready to go just because this one wasn't. And besides it was all part of Tier Four. So we couldn't justify waiting for it.
Still. Out of the 66 eps I was involved in, only two aired out of order. "The Price" aired too soon. "Kingdom" aired too late.
Hope it didn't screw too much with your sense of continuity.
Oh, by the way, Kingdom was
Directed by Bob Kline
Story Edited by Gary Sperling
Written By Marty Isenberg & Robert Skir
KINGDOM (BROOKLYN & TALON)
The title, I believe, was another one of my one word 'theme' titles. It refers, of course, to the newly established kingdom of the Labyrinth and who and how it will be ruled. Can any organization exist without leadership? Or will a power vacuum by nature be filled by something, positive or negative?
We have in this show two reluctant leaders. Brooklyn and Talon. Ironically, Talon seems to have no problem asserting himself to lead -- especially among the Gargoyles in the void of Brooklyn's unleadership. He wants the authoritiy of leadership without the responsiblilty that comes with actually having the title.
Brooklyn feels a burden of leadership that's two-fold. On the one hand, he feels like acknowledging his role as leader is a betrayal of Goliath. Like he's giving up on finding his older brother. On the other hand, he feels intimidated by trying to fill Goliath's shoes (assuming Goliath wore shoes).
He's specializing in 'avoidance' or as Kent Brockman would say, "Avoision".
"Why are you looking at me?"
"Perfect."
"Stop asking me that. I don't know."
Everyone else is actually working on the missing Goliath/Bronx/Elisa problem. Brooklyn isn't even doing that, because any action risks being misinterpreted as leadership.
HUDSON
So throughout, Hudson uses psychology to gently nudge Brooklyn into the right mental space.
Guess he'll go to the Labyrinth to ask Elisa's brother if he's seen her. Might see Maggie there....
Suddenly Brooklyn is volunteering. For the wrong reasons, of course, but Hudson has at least gotten him started. Moved him from active to passive.
CAGNEY
Is fun in this. Didn't want to leave the poor cat alone for months now, did we? I like how Broadway and Hudson care for him. How the cat reacts, sleeping on Hudson's head, when Hudson wakes up. How he reacts to Maggie the (other) Cat. How Hudson, quietly admits just how much he loves Bronx in Cagney's presence.
AL, CHAS and ?
I like these guys. They're well characterized in just a few little bits.
Al's the homeless guy that Fang harrasses. Chas and his buddy (who's name I didn't catch this time through -- though I know I have it written down at the office) are Fang's cronies.
Jeff Bennett (as Chas' buddy) is very funny describing their discovery to Fang.
There's a brief moment at the end, where it looks like Lex and BW might be smashing these two guys heads in with rocks. But we pull back and see they're really smashing the guns. I don't think we'd get away with even the tease of that in the current S&P atmosphere.
I wonder where they went after Talon chased them out. Can't help thinking they were naturals to join the Quarrymen.
And how's Al doing?
FANG & CLAW
I love Belushi as Fang. (He's got a great growl that's a sound effect, but it works great with Belushi's stuff.) My wife Beth thought Jim was too over the top. But I think he's hilarious.
He's got a bunch of great lines:
"...Flying bug zappers."
"Now wouldn't that be a crying shame."
"Open the door, Fang. Protect the weak, Fang."
"There's a new Sheriff in town."
"Ahhh, mannn...."
"Mutate humor."
Talon: "You and what army?"
Fang: "This army, pal. And you're our first prisoner of war." (Though technically Talon is the second, since Maggie's already trapped in the gun chamber.)
My nearly eight-year-old-daughter Erin asked, "Is he greedy or jealous?" Both, probably.
And he is bright enought to trick Talon.
And Claw is just a love. Charming in his silence. He really comes into his own in this ep, you know?
Incidentally, this year "Kingdom" made the fan's top ten favorite episodes, alongside such others as: "Hunter's Moon, Parts One, Two and Three," "The Mirror," "Future Tense," and others.
I was a bit surprised. Most of the other ten look a hell of a lot better than this one. It's a tribute to Brooklyn's popularity probably, but also, I think to Claw.
There's great fun throughout with that darn key card. Fang trying to bust into the gun chamber initially. Being so frustrated, and Claw just lowering the card in front of him.
"Give me that!" Fang says and grabs it.
Later, after Maggie's escaped, and Fang regains consciousness to find out what happened, Claw does his intentionally indecipherable pantomime schtick. And Fang simply repeats: "Give me that!"
MATT
The scene with Broadway and Matt is oddly animated. Looks briefly like it's from some other show. But there's something strangely cool about the animation, even though it's off.
MAGGIE
Erin said, "I like Maggie. She's very..." But she didn't complete the sentence. Even with prompting from both Beth and myself. She just liked her, I guess.
Maggie begs Claw to let her out. So that she can join the fight? No. So that she can get help. That's Maggie's version of bravery. And I'm not knocking it. Frankly, it's what we teach our kids. You don't teach them to enter dangerous situations. You teach them to go get help. Dial 911. Maggie will never be a warrior, though she has the power for it. It's just not who she is. Normally, that might bug me. But this was a show with so many strong warrior female types, that I liked having the variety.
But this episode doesn't happen to have any of those strong female types like Elisa or Angela or Fox or even Demona. Did it bother anyone that Maggie was the only woman depicted and that she never participated in battle?
Maggie does get to shine in an area that comes more natural to her. Acting. She figures out at the end what Brooklyn is up to, and then performs her heart out to keep Fang in the dark, as she releases Derek. Well, I've always said she came from Ohio to make it in NYC as an actress...
She and Talon are now even more firmly established as a couple. Even in Brooklyn's mind. Finally, he adjusts and moves on.
XANATOS & OWEN
Hey, how about that new security system, installed as a result of Thailog's 'kidnapping' in Double Jep. Doesn't it... SUCK??!!!!!
The cannons do WAY more damage to X's castle than to anyone or anything else. And I also felt like we had done this before at Mac's place in Lighthouse and the Price.
So this is just weak. A failure on our part to come up with something stronger, more original, etc. We needed some action around now. But I still wish we had cracked this better.
There are some fun moments, if not always for the right reasons...
There's a comedy WAY off-model Broadway riding the exploding cannon.
There's a couple gargs falling through X's ceiling.
And it leads into a fun scene...
Owen's stone fist use (though a great idea) is actually a touch feeble, but X is in rare form...
Xanatos: "Do I really need an excuse to have a good time in my own home?"
And Xanatos: "A man has to make a living."
And Xanatos again: "I wasn't aware I needed permission."
Of course, on my tape that effect is spoiled when he suddenly goes cross-eyed. I'm hoping that's a retake that got corrected after the first airing.
BROOKLYN
Finally, after the debacle at X's place (which winds up being less of a debacle since we never figured out an episode that would show how X would take advantage of the info he learned) and after Maggie's plea for help (Brook could never resist a damsel in distress), Brooklyn finally takes up the role of Leader. Reluctantly.
Brooklyn: "This has nothing to do with what I want."
Hud: "Is that an order then."
Brook: "Yeah, I guess it is." Then look at him right there. That's a hero, am I right?
And Erin says, "Funny. All the leaders have long hair."
Hmmmm....
And so Brooklyn can't avoid leadership...
"Yeah, try as I might."
And he and Talon shake hands, as both accept the roles destiny has thrusted upon them. It looks good on them.
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
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