Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...

Hi Greg,

Originally I promised I wasn't going to review 3 - 5 until I saw them as a group, and go figure when I finished this was RIGHT when the queue closed. So here it is, though with added time of reflection.

REVIEW OF GARGOYLES ISSUES 3 - 5
by Shannon Muir

As I've stated previously, I didn't want to comment on the comics until I could see the whole story in one piece, which to me feels like I'm reading a half hour episode adapted to three comics with one comic per act. I'm largely going to talk about the story as I think it unfair to review three different artists artwork indepth in one piece. However, broadly speaking I liked issue #5 the best artwise and issue #4 the least (mainly because I couldn't follow the fight scenes in that style which in turn impacted my ability to follow story, though the style itself was interesting).

Now, here's a breakdown of each story arc and my observations --

THE ILLUMINATI: It's nice to finally get a sense of the Illuminati structure as more than just this nebulous organization represented by just a couple people in the show. Castaway, Bluestone, Xanatos, and Thailog all at lowest run almost implies some sort of "race to the top". Both Quincy and Shari I find extremely interesting, and Thailog being a member was a turn I didn't expect. Also that Shari's symbol isn't the ring like all the men wear. (What jewelry does Thailog have I wonder, though I know you can't/won't answer). There's enough here I'm interested in what is going on in their infrastructure. Thailog's goals are, however, at this point a little bit predictable. What is more of interest is the consequences of the pursuit of said goals with Sevarius.

ELISA AND GOLIATH: I have to be honest, this was the arc that I liked the least. To me, the question of Elisa's family plans opened on the castle rampart is a "tentpole" question that should launch a much larger arc and not be thrown away in the equivalent of a half-hour episode. The fact Elisa flirted with Jason, and did take Morgan on the date, cannot be erased in one night no matter how life-threatening. Couples have conflicts but they also need to work through them, and issues of this magnitude take time. I hear rumors later issues will continue with this theme, but even what I've seen here seems just too fast. I know comics by nature need to be time compressed to some extent, but still.

I for one hope that though Elisa's re-recognized her feelings for Goliath in the heat of a pressure moment, the struggles don't end here. Those are some powerful words Elisa told Goliath back at the castle in Issue 3 about the life she wanted, and I truly feel some more examination of this is required instead of a simple daytime soap opera-esque "we'll find a way to work it out" and let it rest until it resolves itself. It has always been one of GARGOYLES' hallmarks to deal with tough issues head on and give them the treatment they deserve - whether it is single epsiodes with undertones of social issues like DEADLY FORCE or LIGHTHOUSE or the complicated psychcological examination of Demona and Macbeth of CITY OF STONE. That, to me, is what makes GARGOYLES... well, GARGOYLES.

As is, it feels like this was "rushed through" to take Elisa and Goliath to some sort of "next level" in their relationship in order to move along other plot elements. I strongly hope this isn't the case.

BROOKLYN, BROADWAY AND ANGELA: Poor Brooklyn just feels alientated by everyone. This was done in plausible contexts that made sense. I know what it is ultimately to lead to (in the most general of senses, as we've been told before), but the question is how long will things go until we get there? I hope they don't drag out but go at a natural pace. As to Broadway and Angela, I think they are handled very subtly in the background, their relationship is reconfirmed as a contrast longside Brooklyn's alienation.

LEXINGTON: Not too much to say here as Lexington is Lexington. However, what is key is his confrontation with his clone, it reveals a lot about his character as he confronts his "dark side" when the clone chooses Thailog over siding with Delilah.

THE CLONES, THE MUTATES, AND THE POWER OF FREE WILL: Maggie standing up and Delilah taking charge were both turns I applauded and worked well, Delilah's especially though I would have liked to have overseen her hearing the conversation where Goliath mentions her. Though, where did Thailog learn about Norma Rae? It took a minute to remember where she overheard Goliath's comment. This was my second favorite arc to Hudson and Robbins (see below). However, we still don't know what happened to Maggie or to Claw. We see Shari at the end of Issue 5 talking to Thailog, and supposedly she took Claw with her when she left the Labrinyth in Issue 4. Where is he? Did I miss something? (I hope so.)

HUDSON AND ROBBINS: The smallest subplot in the arc but it accomplishes volumes in just a few pages. It got a major revelation out of the way - that Robbins has suspected Hudson's identity for some time - but it didn't feel rushed or forced. It felt like every step was completely appropriate and the handshake at the end before Hudson left was the perfect cap. A total contrast to the Elisa and Goliath arc. Even Gilly and Bronx resting together was a nice touch.

BRENDAN AND MARGOT: Margot was predictable but funny, yet the interesting part here is getting a better sense of Brendan. Timing makes it clear he got Dr. Sato to help Goliath, but did he realize Goliath was what he was or does he think Goliath was just a man in a really good costume? Again, you can't answer that one but I'm letting you know the answer interests me.

DEMONA: I know she's a setup for later, but she seems out of place in these three issues if taken together as one story. Not much to say as there's not much of her around. I am left wondering if that page might have been able to be done some other way or at some other point to have better been utilized for this story.

CAMEOS AT THE PARTY: Fun if you remember the show enough. I recognized some and had to research others. I flat out did not recognize the Judge and guessed who he was simply because I had to think of what episode used a Judge. Seems too off model to me, even compensating for the costume.

OVERALL: Would I keep reading at this point? There's enough to keep me interested, but how Elisa and Goliath play out may be a real sticking point. We'll see.

ADDENDUM REGARDING ISSUE #6:I don't have Issue 6 yet (got stuck too late at work to go out the day it came out), and to be honest after hearing about the technical art gaffe I may just hold out for the trade in hope it gets corrected there and I can follow the story properly, especially since it is a stand-alone. I haven't decided. If I do get it and the queue doesn't close, I'll consider a review.

Vashkoda writes...

It was nice seeing you at ComicCon, Greg! So as you know, I got issues #4&5 there, and I was happily pleased by the story. Even though I had read spoilers, it was still exciting to be "seeing" a new episode. You certainly didn't hold back on the surprises, with Brentwood's defection, Brendan's sense, Thailog and Sevarius's new scheme, and the rankings of the Illuminati. I actually got a kick out of seeing the audience's reactions to these revelations on YouTube, and I totally would have joined them in a long round of applause for such a great episode.

The only thing that saddens me about the comic is that you will be less forthcoming with revelations on Ask Greg, and that we now have to wait 2 months at a time for new material on the main series (I expect Bad Guys will have its own revelations, but mostly about its own cast). I suppose you will still be posting interesting timeline entries until you catch up to the full year, but those are often too obscure to make much sense out of ("Lexington takes a chance and loses"). I know that having the published comic is a better deal than having revelations on this forum that are nothing but unrealized possibilities, or "canon-in-training", but I will miss the excitement I used to have when visiting here, looking for new tidbits of information that once would have had the CR buzzing for weeks. Anyways, don't mind my rambling--I'm just being greedy and somewhat nostalgic. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Tibetan flashback, and the Bad Guys premiere! Hopefully the comics will stay on schedule.

Todd Jensen writes...

This isn't a question, but a comment. One thing that I liked in the two most recent issues of the "Gargoyles" comic book, and in "Eye of the Beholder", was that, when Goliath attends the Halloween parties in those stories, while the other gargoyles present, and Elisa, are wearing costumes at the events, he wasn't (or, rather, he was letting his "gargoyleness" be his costume). I thought that that was particularly appropriate, since while the younger gargoyles wearing costumes worked for me and fitted their characterizations, I think that it would have jarred to have Goliath "dress up" at those events. He has a certain natural dignity and majesty about himself that would have (in my opinion) been compromised had he worn a costume as well. Thanks (to both you and the artists) for leaving him as he was at those events.

Shadow Wing writes...

Written before release of Issue 5

ISSUE 4 - MASQUE

Once again, Greg, you have completely failed to disappoint.

Last issue, when Hudson said that he had a "previous engagement," I had a feeling that he was going to be spending Hallowe'en with Jeffrey. (Hey, it was either that or spend the party night watching Celebrity Hockey, eh?)

I'm assuming that Margot had intended for herself and Brendan to have a "couple's costume". If Brendan was supposed to be Valentino, who was Margot dressed as?

And the Clan is continuing the costume themes: the Trio (now plus Angela) with their "costume over a costume" as someone put it in "Eye" (was it Vinnie?), and Elisa with her Disney Princess motif. I think she makes a good Jas.

I like Angela's reaction to Elisa with a date. She's a "daddy's girl" through and through.

Nice little continuation from the previous issue with Thailog. A follow-up on his "Trick or treat?" line at the start of the "commercial break." Also, his preparation for the assault is another prime example of his Xanatos-like mindset - prepare for anything. And of course, with Thailog alive, it only makes sense that he'd try to reclaim the Clones.

How did Judge Roebling mistake Delilah for Demona? The coloring's all wrong, and when last he saw, she and Goliath were clearly not on pleasant terms.

Poor "G"…heart breaking… and poor Brooklyn, still ever-so-smitten.

You've commented that Alex X. looks old for his age. Am I correct in guessing that this has to do with his heritage - specifically his maternal grandmother?

I notice that, in contrast with his meeting with Agent Hacker, David looks not at all pleased to speak with mister "Two."

So, the Clones are not quite free of Thailog's programming. Makes sense, as it's been three months at the most since they were "liberated" from him.

I hope we finally get to find out what our mysterious goth girl's name is next ish (she looks like an Alex to me, but with Baby X, that might get confusing).

I kind of feel sorry for Morgan. Elisa built up his hopes on this date, and now it looks like he's being let down again.

Yay for more troubles in the G&E romance dept. I feel bad for them, but it makes for good story writing. Speaking of good writing, I hope that things don't end up all better at the end of the "episode," that would seem a little too sitcom-like to me.

"…your penchant for drama always exceeds expectations, Father." Thailog always seems to know how to push Goliath's buttons, doesn't he?

And let's hear a "Good boy, Owen!" He wouldn't be the major-domo he is, if he didn't try to keep the party going well.

And Owen raises a good point: if Delilah is to have free will, she needs the opportunity to make the decision for herself - even if the decision she makes is the "wrong" one.

OOOHH! Cliffhanger! Great place for the commercial break. Can't wait to see what happens in the final act. Will Goliath survive?!

Well, of course he will, as our leading man. But still…

And I leave you with this thought: You said that, in the comics, three issues is the equivalent of one TV episode. If you were to clump issues 3-5 together into an episode, what title would you use?

Moeen writes...

Belatedly, a few things about Gargoyles #4: Masque. I actually liked the artistry in this one, a nice change from the previous ones. Too bad Nir Paniry's name was left out. I guess what annoys me about David Hedgecock's style is that the eyebrows are too high on the face, they look about an inch above the eyes themselves. I guess that's his style, but it still bothers me a bit. David also tends to put too many lines on characters faces, sometimes making them look older than they really are. Nir Paniry doesn't do that, though in his case he tends to make things (particularly hair) a bit too shiny, and likes to draw veins popping out of some of the more buff characters. So I guess I liked Nir's style more. Wouldn't mind seeing more of his work in some of the later comics.

A couple of questions:

1) Is that Dominic Dracon towards the bottom left of page 5 with the blue-green mask on his head, or just a very good look alike? If it is DD, what's he doing out of jail?

2) Xanatos' reply to "thirty-six" this time was "two", not "thirty-two", was that a typo? If it isn't, I presume we'll find out soon enough the reason for the difference?

Thanks for your time.

Audra writes...

My review on comic #4. To put it simply, it was really great, and I am really looking forward to #5.

I wonder why Robbins thought it was weird that Hudson said he was wearing a mask. He could of very well been, I mean Robbins can't really tell if he is or not. I really wonder if Robbins has any idea who, or really what Hudson really is…

I never even gave Lexington's cyborg costume a second thought, and I read that so many fans thought of the Future Tense Lexington by that costume. I just thought Lex looked kind of cute in that panel.

Hehe, Elisa as Jasmine. She makes a pretty nice Jasmine… I do wonder if there was more thought into her costume then we realize. (Since Jasmine was the princess that really didn't want to be a princess anymore, the princess who wanted a normal life)

Poor Brooklyn… I feel so sorry for him… If I was a female gargoyle, I wouldn't miss my chance to be with him! =P He's my favorite character and I think he's attractive, hehe. I can't wait to see what his costume will be.

And poor Maggie, I hope she will be ok! There is so much to look forward in #5. And I worry about Goliath… I just can't wait for #5!

I hope you always post here in the latest response of "Ask Greg" when the new comic comes out. (The date) I believe you have for all the comics except #2. But it would help me out a lot since I depend on this site to let me know when the next comic is available. Also you seem kind of sad that no one really writes in for the "Etched in Stone" section, but I think it's because people are so used to writing in here to "Ask Greg" plus it's just easier to write online then send a letter through the mail. I don't think it's much of a problem if you can just use some of the comments posted here on "Ask Greg." (Like you have before)

Matthew writes...

Just finished reading #4 for the third time. Let's see I liked the scene at the beginning. I always liked Jeffrey Robbins and would like to see more of him. The costume party was cool. I guess Margot's a fan of old movies if she wanted Brendan to dress as Rudolf Valentino. I like the irony of her complimenting the gargoyles without realizing they were gargoyles. This was also the first I think we've ever seen her complimenting anything. You'd think that she would have recognize the gargoyles though considering all the times she has encounter them. I did not at first remember who Judge Roebling was at first since he was only in Vows.
So at the Labrynthe Thailog thrashes the Mutates. I have to wonder does Thailog have some plan for the Clones or is he just "collecting his property" as he put it?
I'd say that's quite shocker at the end. I'm not sure you could have done that in the cartoon, but like you said in an earlier post it would be how you do it. I think a slightly elevated level of violence might lend the comic a bit more gravitas than the cartoon. Though I don't want it turning into a Garth Ennis comic or anything.

Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...

Still reserving anything overall commentwise until issue 5 comes out, but there's a question I keep coming back to and that is Elisa's costume choice as Jasmine, considering she was planning on going with Goliath initially.

Thematically, I'm sure there's some symbolism tied into that choice and I love the thoughts several have shared here.

But part of me wonders why not Esmeralda from NOTRE DAME as that was the Disney movie of Summer 1996? Or did she boycott it due to the comic portrayal of gargoyles?

I know that's probably setup to a smartass answer but I'm ok with that.

Todd Jensen writes...

I know that you're not that fond of questions involving "The Goliath Chronicles", but this is something that I thought I should mention here anyway.

One of the episodes of "The Goliath Chronicles" (it was the one involving Taurus and Proteus in New York) has gained particular notoriety among "Gargoyles" fans because the animators somehow made Elisa resemble Jasmine from "Aladdin". As a result, I found it amusing when, in #4 of the new comic, you had Elisa going to the masquerade party as Jasmine.

Given your past comments on the Goliath Chronicles and how you don't even remember them that clearly, I doubt that you deliberately intended that as an in-joke; also, it makes sense that Elisa would choose that costume because in the previous Halloween party in "Gargoyles", she'd gone as another Disney heroine (Belle from "Beauty and the Beast"). But I still thought that I should mention the additional level of meaning that I'd gotten out of her costume choice to you.