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Shadow Wing writes...

ISSUE 5 - BASH

So, we see more of Sir Ian of Oxford, and also…is that Tom's mother and wossername - the lass who was smitten with Constantine? Bah! You're not going to tell if it is, and I can't be the first one to notice that.

So, Morgan doesn't feel too bad about being rejected - glad he was prepared for it.

Hmmm…so, according to this Number 2, there would be…uh-huh…666 members of the Illuminati. Was this intentional?

So, Brooklyn was going to be Supergoyle, not the Scarecrow. Interesting twist.
And you can tell, when Elisa sees one of Bruno's boys, that she knows something wrong.

Thailog's reaction to Angela's exclamation is akin to my own - I'm surprised that Disney let that through.

Yay for the Old Fart. And this scene is a little reminiscent of Hudson's "outing" in TGC: Dying of the Light. From what I understood, that scene was not one of the bits they took from you. Any reason you decided to include this?

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's…SUPERGOYLE!!
"I'm part of this clan…nothing will ever change that!" How sentimental of Elisa.

"So for decades, the leader of the Free World has been…" "shootin' the breeze in my kitchen every night."
This doesn't come as a surprise. It's been said that even the President works for them.

Uh-oh…Brendan's seen the Gargoyles…this looks to be some serious trouble.

So Thailog calls Delilah "Angel"? Interesting… I don't recall him using that pet name for her, or Demona.

"'Delilah can mean nothing to me.' You used me."
Interesting…I hope that Goliath can clear things up with her. I don't want to see bad blood between the two clans.

Mmmm…Goliath agrees with what I said last review. This pleases me.

So…Dr. Sato now gets pulled into "the know." Let's hope he can be trusted.

And you already know my feelings about the resolution of the Goliath-Elisa relationship.

So, Thailog is still working with Sevarius. No big surprise there…as opposed to the sudden revelation about Shari, Illuminatus Rank 9.

So, let's see…so far, we know of…
ILLUMINATI RANK 36
Matt Bluestone.
David Xanatos
Jon Canmore/Castaway.
"Alexander" Thailog.

ILLUMINATUS RANK 32
Martin Hacker

ILLUMINATUS RANK 9
Shari

ILLUMINATI RANK 2
Quincy Hemings
The mysterious Mr. Duval.

I have no doubt that we'll be seeing more soon.

Sleep well, Greg. Pleasant dreams.

Greg responds...

The Dying of the Light scene was NOT one of mine -- though the long term plan for Jeff to learn Hudson's identity and be okay with it was. But it seemed to me that that one line of dialogue was a fan-favorite... and since there were few of those in the Goliath Chronicles, I thought a nod to one of the times they got things right was a nice tribute to all the hard work that the TGC crew put in, with little thanks or reward.

Response recorded on August 28, 2007

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Shadow Wing writes...

Written before release of Issue 5

ISSUE 4 - MASQUE

Once again, Greg, you have completely failed to disappoint.

Last issue, when Hudson said that he had a "previous engagement," I had a feeling that he was going to be spending Hallowe'en with Jeffrey. (Hey, it was either that or spend the party night watching Celebrity Hockey, eh?)

I'm assuming that Margot had intended for herself and Brendan to have a "couple's costume". If Brendan was supposed to be Valentino, who was Margot dressed as?

And the Clan is continuing the costume themes: the Trio (now plus Angela) with their "costume over a costume" as someone put it in "Eye" (was it Vinnie?), and Elisa with her Disney Princess motif. I think she makes a good Jas.

I like Angela's reaction to Elisa with a date. She's a "daddy's girl" through and through.

Nice little continuation from the previous issue with Thailog. A follow-up on his "Trick or treat?" line at the start of the "commercial break." Also, his preparation for the assault is another prime example of his Xanatos-like mindset - prepare for anything. And of course, with Thailog alive, it only makes sense that he'd try to reclaim the Clones.

How did Judge Roebling mistake Delilah for Demona? The coloring's all wrong, and when last he saw, she and Goliath were clearly not on pleasant terms.

Poor "G"…heart breaking… and poor Brooklyn, still ever-so-smitten.

You've commented that Alex X. looks old for his age. Am I correct in guessing that this has to do with his heritage - specifically his maternal grandmother?

I notice that, in contrast with his meeting with Agent Hacker, David looks not at all pleased to speak with mister "Two."

So, the Clones are not quite free of Thailog's programming. Makes sense, as it's been three months at the most since they were "liberated" from him.

I hope we finally get to find out what our mysterious goth girl's name is next ish (she looks like an Alex to me, but with Baby X, that might get confusing).

I kind of feel sorry for Morgan. Elisa built up his hopes on this date, and now it looks like he's being let down again.

Yay for more troubles in the G&E romance dept. I feel bad for them, but it makes for good story writing. Speaking of good writing, I hope that things don't end up all better at the end of the "episode," that would seem a little too sitcom-like to me.

"…your penchant for drama always exceeds expectations, Father." Thailog always seems to know how to push Goliath's buttons, doesn't he?

And let's hear a "Good boy, Owen!" He wouldn't be the major-domo he is, if he didn't try to keep the party going well.

And Owen raises a good point: if Delilah is to have free will, she needs the opportunity to make the decision for herself - even if the decision she makes is the "wrong" one.

OOOHH! Cliffhanger! Great place for the commercial break. Can't wait to see what happens in the final act. Will Goliath survive?!

Well, of course he will, as our leading man. But still…

And I leave you with this thought: You said that, in the comics, three issues is the equivalent of one TV episode. If you were to clump issues 3-5 together into an episode, what title would you use?

Greg responds...

Either "Masque" or "Bash", but I'm trying not to slip into t.v. habits. We're in a new medium now.

Margot was a flapper of your choice.

Roebling doesn't really think in terms of their being a lot of gargoyles. He saw a female, he thought of the female he knew of. They all look alike to him. Particularly when he's a touch sloshed.

Response recorded on August 28, 2007

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Tcat writes...

I know you must get hundreds of these questions every month, but I'd heard Gargoyles #5 was out July 18th and So far neither Slavelabor, nor Amazon, nor my local comic store have any information on it. Why so many set backs to getting them published on time (or at all in most cases)? And aside from asking you every month when they'll be out, is there some place that updates regularly on the status? I know you must be frustrated as much as we are about trying to find the comics in stores and on time..

Greg responds...

Gargoyles #5 is out and went on sale at comic book stores this past July. I have NO clue why your store has no info. But that really is an issue with YOUR store. Diamond had it available for distribution. As for SLG, you have to understand that it is a VERY small company, and with the San Diego ComicCon taking up much time and energy, the folks there were a bit slow to get it up on their site, but it IS there now. Amazon... well, you got me. I would hope it's up there now.

Response recorded on August 27, 2007

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Stefan writes...

Hi Greg!
This is the first time I'm asking a question here, so I'd like to start by saying thank you for keeping such a close relationship to the fans of your work. That's a rare thing nowadays.
I also want to thank you for creating the greatest animated series ever. I absolutely loved the Gargoyles TV show during the time it aired here in Germany and still do. Sadly, there were no re-runs to date. But I managed to get the episodes via some dark pipes of the internet and while doing so, I noticed that, although the german show had very good speakers, the original english version sounds even better. I'd really like to get those DVDs to enjoy the episodes a) in full quality, b) with subtitles for those parts that are a bit hard to understand, and last but not least c) legally, wich would calm my consience. Sadly, there's no way to obtain the show on DVD here. Disney's european partner, Buena Vista International, hasn't released the DVDs here and the american ones have a region code that prevents us europeans from watching them. I don't know why they didn't release them here, apparently the show was very successful in europe. Here in germany, it looked like it didn't recieve quite the attention it could have, because it aired on a channel that had a much younger audience than the one the show was aimed at, but everyone who knew about the show really liked it a lot and I for one knew a lot of people who knew it. And from what I heard, it was an even bigger big hit in france. But still these facts don't seem to be sufficient enough to convince BVI to consider a european DVD release.
So, summarized, it might be bad that there are only 1 and a half seasons out there with the other half of season 2 missing, but for everyone outside of the US it's even worse, for we have nothing at all!

But now there is the comic. Fortunately, paper has no region codes yet. ;-)
Finally I'm able to enjoy my favourite animated series of all time again, I asked my local comic book store if they could import the comic and they confirmed it. I have to catch up a bit now, because when I heard about the existence of the new comic via pure coincidence, the first three episodes were already out. That discovery re-lighted the torch I once carried for the Gargoyles show and I looked around a bit and found out about stuff like the GotG-Con and websites like the Gargoyles-Wiki and this one. It's unbelievably great to see that there are so many others who also love this show as much as I do.

Ok, enough babbling, let's get to my question:

How will the narrative of the Gargoyles comic book series look like in the future? Will we get more or less closed chapters, spread across a few issues but with a defined ending for each story arc? Or will it turn out to be like so many other comic series that seem to have no real endings, because almost every issue ends with another cliffhanger?
I really hope not... Cliffhangers are useful for keeping the reader's anticipation up, but if even the final episode of a story arc hasn't a real ending but introduces the next arc instead, just to be able to place yet another cliffhanger, it becomes very annoying. Especially with 2 or more months waiting time between two issues. I really hope Bad Guys will be a success, so all of the other mini-series can be produced and sold in between the regular series' releases as well. New stories from the Gargoyles universe every month sounds almost too good to be true... Keep up the great work!

Greetings from Germany,
Stefan

Greg responds...

I'm big on open-ended closure. We will have some cliffhangers, of course, but if you've managed to catch up on the issues you've missed, you'll see that both issues 2 and 5 ended small story arcs. The same will be true for issues 6, 9 and especially 12, which will conclude the Clan-Building arc.

Having said that, nothing in Gargoyles truly "ends". So even issue 12 will still leave some aspects unresolved, and in fact will intentionally raise more and new questions.

Response recorded on August 27, 2007

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SF writes...

Gargoyles #7; "The Rock", is it about Pendragon, or Demona, or Hakon?

Greg responds...

I'm not revealing any more at this time beyond what is stated in the solicitation blurb, which can be found here: http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/The_Rock

Response recorded on August 27, 2007

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Anonymous writes...

I know all about the drama that involves Season 2 Vol. 2 and getting Disney/BVHE to release them, so I'll spare you that much. However, I would like to know the following: Is there an alternative to purchasing said second half of the season, or has one even exisited in the past? You know, like that big black thing with the magnetic tape called VHS that is going out of style now?

Greg responds...

No.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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Derek writes...

Could you list the following characters in order of natural intelligence?
Sevarius, Xanatos, Fox, Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Hudson, Elisa, Brooklyn, Lexington, Delilah, Demona, Desdemona, Coldstone, Coldsteel, Gabriel, Ophelia, Princess Katherine, Magus, Tom, Titania, Oberon, Halcyon, Puck, Fang, Talon, Claw, Maggie, Finella, Mary.
P.S I know its an odd question but i'm just curious about a lot of hypothetical questions and i think this could clear things up for me. Just some examples of the questions i think could be cleared up by this question.
1)Could Goliath have the same potential for magic as Demona? 2)Could Demona have the same potential for science as Sevarius etc.
I'd assume Hudson and Broadway or Fox and Xanatos would have roughly the same natural intelligence level in cases like that could you list character of the same intelligence in a row.
I didn't include the clones with exception of Delilah because they'd all have the same level of natural intelligence as their counterparts wouldn't they?

Greg responds...

Ranking intelligence?

No thanks.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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Carita writes...

Where was Fox during City of stone part 2 til 4?
did she remain in the helicopter whole night during part 2?
did she know what exactly happened during the entire episodes?

Greg responds...

She was stone in the helicopter for the night. Then at daybreak, she awoke, and -- I'm sure -- returned to the castle. The situation was probably explained to her, and I would think David would do his best to make sure that by nightfall she was in a secure location.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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Amanda writes...

What is the bionicle story about anway? I've seen the movei's that I have but I still don't understand what it's about. And why Arn't into bionicle any more?

Greg responds...

It's been so long...

To answer your second question first, I was -- basically -- fired by Lego (for yawning). It left a bad taste in my mouth, so I don't follow the property anymore.

As to what it's about, it's about a race of robots. Beyond that basic bit of info, I can only recommend reading the comics, checking out the website or the movies.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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zeffix writes...

How did Xanatos tell Fox about what happened to her in the episode eye of the beholder? and what was Fox's reaction?

Greg responds...

I'll leave that to your imagination.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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aj writes...

hey greg,
i thought angela had a thing for brooklyn why does she end up with broadway

Greg responds...

<<<We were never hinting toward Brooklyn/Angela. Quite the reverse. Gary Sperling and I made this decision together when he was working on Turf. But it just felt right. Broadway seemed the guy who was most attentive to Angela as an individual. The person most in touch with his so-called feminine side. Brooklyn was just after any chick with wings, frankly. And I think Lex pursued her because his brothers were and it seemed like the right thing to do. Only Broadway was interested in who Angela was. In my mind, he's clearly the most mature when it comes to this stuff. Brooklyn's a leader. And I love the guy, but he confuses a crush with deep abiding love. He needs a little more emotional maturity before he's ready for this "Gargoyles mate for life" thing.>>>

Or if you prefer:
<<<Angela and Brooklyn were NEVER an "item". NEVER. Brooklyn certainly had a crush on her. But so did Lex and Broadway. And Broadway's feelings for her were deeper almost from the night they met. And if you caught the look they exchanged at the end of "Possessions" you would have seen that the only "item" in works was Angela & Broadway.>>>

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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Theodore writes...

Would you say that it was Demona's fault for creating the Hunter, since it was she who mutilated the young boy's face? I've heard that the boy had an inner darkness inside him, but didn't Demona bring it to the surface by attacking him that day?

Greg responds...

Blame to go around.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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brooklyn the red one writes...

greg do u think if there was a medical procedur to change a human in to a gargoyle,(full blown everthing glowing,eyes'stone skin,ect)
peopel would it do you think most of all the fans would do it. how would you feel about fans turning them selfs in to real gargoyles
would have it done
thanks for your time

Greg responds...

Seriously? Tattoos make me squeemish.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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Derek writes...

How come Hudson doesn't take on a more fatherly role with the Trio? He seemed to with Goliath and to a lesser extent Demona.

Greg responds...

I'd argue he does, keeping in mind that he views the three of them as young adults, not children.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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ashley bourke writes...

how will brooklyn and katana get along when they first meet what will katana be like how will brooklyn feel about her and how will katana feel about brooklyn

Greg responds...

Patience is necessary for all concerned.

Response recorded on August 24, 2007

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Purplegoldfish writes...

My Review for #5

The art is beautiful...Karine and Stephanie did a wonderful job. All the characters on model, colors are great. Finally the male gargoyles don't have 200 pound boulder muscles.

-I love that first panel of the eyrie building! That must have been fun to construct...
-Mary and Finella-hm, don't know what to think about them. Why didn't they meet the gargoyles? I guess they're in costumes of...themselves from 1000 years ago? Cuz I really hope Mary hasn't been wearing that rag on her head for 20 years.

-Dr. Sato is on the scene...we know where this is going. Good thing he's there--coincidence?

-I love those altered glass slipper foot coverings on Angela. I don't think we've ever seen gargoyle foot wear. I also like Broadway's full lion body suit, even though he didn't have it on last issue. It's so cute, especially when we see a shot of his back with the tail hehe.

- Oh man, is Thailog mean or what? He slams Goliath headfirst into a wall AFTER he stabs him. Talk about low.

-So Duval's not number one. Hm interesting. There's been some pretty cool theories going around S8. I don't really know enough about Arthurian legend to speculate though.

-hilarious moment when Brooklyn makes his grand entrance as "Super-Goyle." I like how he shows up right after Margot is berating Brendan for his "stupid get-up". It's funny, when people in here were discussing what they thought Brooklyn would show up as and it wasn't the Scarecrow, I predicted he would be a superhero of some sort, but I didn't post my thoughts about it, ah well. I'm phsychic! Not really, cause I was totally wrong about Brentwood, which I'll get to later.

-Angela: "YOU BASTARD!" Mwahahah. Note to self...Angela is not a sweet little angel, don't get on her bad side-well, unless of course you're Thailog, who was able to slash the whole Manhattan clan singlehandedly. I have no doubt he could have killed them all if he had aimed for their necks.

-I figured Robbins knew Hudson was a gargoyle. Though I'm not sure how he equates the smell of "old leather and concrete" to gargoyles if he only heard about them on the news. And does stone skin actually smell like stone? Does Robbins know the gargoyles turn to stone?
Anyway, some nice elements from the TGC ep, "The Dying of the light" which was one of the better ones of that series. I always kind of liked in that episode how Robbins was annoyed at Hudson for assuming he would want nothing to do with Hudson once he found out he was a gargoyle. Robbins seems to be taking it all in stride here though.

-The fight scenes look great. Very dynamic, and I can tell what's going on, which I had trouble with in earlier issues. I especially love that bird's eye shot of the whole clan and the clones.

-Elisa: "I'm a part of this clan." I think here she realizes that she can never have a normal life as she expected to. How many humans are members of gargoyle clans? I'm willing to bet she's the only one.
Thailog comes on to Elisa as he slashes her. He seems to have a creepy attraction to her...eww.

-Xanatos gets his first assignment from the illuminati. I'm betting it has something to do with the gargoyles. This could cause a lot of problems. I love Xanatos'smirk at Quincy when he's a smart aleck with him.

-Owen finds Delilah...in Xanatos' lab...Okay. Delilah struts into the fight and effectively stops it. I had thought she would be this meek defenseless creature, boy was I wrong. She rocks! She really sticks out as one of the most attractive female gargoyles of the series, if not the most attractive. Goliath must have it really bad for Elisa since he hardly looked Delilah's way. She sticks it to Goliath--who deserves it since he was kind of a jerk to her--but she should wait until he's not spilling his guts on the floor.

-Thailog takes Delilah's refusal in stride. I wasn't expecting that. Obviously she isn't the real reason he came to the castle. He's such a nonchalant jerk-I love him!

-Brentwood stays with Thailog. I had thought he would be the one to go back to the labyrinth. Very tricky! I love Lex's reaction to it-seeing his clone's desicion as a bad reflection on him.

-That's such a beautiful image of Thailog and Brentwood leaving the castle-it just sticks out.

-I've heard that Brendan is the one who alerted DR. Sato. So he does have compassion after all. I hope he leaves that witch of a wife.
So DR. Sato saved Elisa's life and now he's saving Goliath's. Nice, they owe that man a lot.

-and then comes my favorite panels of the book, probably of the whole comic series. Goliath and Elisa exchange "I love you"'s and they kiss! SQUEEEEEEE!!! I've been waiting for this for so long, and seeing it in the morning before work literally made my day. I honestly didn't expect them to say IT so soon, so I was pleasantly surprised. And Goliath's smiling even though he's probably in a heapload of pain--Awwww.
(Though I am somewhat surprised that Goliath is still conscious at this point. Though it's harder to tell passage of time in the comic than in the series, so maybe the fight wasn't as long as it seemed.)

-Brooklyn: "Oh, you gotta be kiddin' me..." hehehe. Even his clone gets more tail than him.

-It took my third reading before I realized Thailog was in Nightstone Unlimited. Hmm, interesting. It seems Sevarius still works there. And we find out Thailog's primary objective for picking up the clones and Delilah was really to get DNA from the clan, one of them being Elisa's, hmm. Thailog+Sevarious+Gargoyle DNA= Very Scary!

-And then we have the shocking ending-Thailog is in the Illuminati, and he's working with Shari the "Labyrinth Girl" who's really high up there on the food chain. Hard times are coming for the clan...I wonder if the Illuminati are in on Thailog's clone plans.

Anyway this has been the most awesome issue so far and I can't wait to read where this is heading. Great job everyone!

Greg responds...

THanks!!

Response recorded on August 22, 2007

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Walter writes...

Would Demona kill Angela if it meant the achievement of her goal, or would that be too much even for her?

Greg responds...

What do you think?

Response recorded on August 22, 2007

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Carla writes...

Will we see the romance between Delilah and Malibu develop in the comics?

Greg responds...

If it does, you will.

Response recorded on August 22, 2007

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Jonny Modlin writes...

Are sales picking up for Gargoyles Season 2, Volume 1 on DVD yet for Disney to release Season 2, Volume 2 of Gargoyles on DVD that I want to get to complete the entire series of Gargoyles on DVD? Thank you and have a nice day.

Jonny

Greg responds...

Jonny, Jonny, Jonny, Jonny, whoops, Jonny, whoops, Jonny, Jonny, Jonny, Jonny...

Yes, in the three weeks since you LAST asked this question the ENTIRE SITUATION has changed! YAY!!! All is solved! All is grand!! No need to spread the word!! Just camp out in your local dvd store! They'll be there tomorrow morning! In fact, they're free! In fact, they'll be delivered straight to your house without even having to order them in advance! In fact, God has decided they will fall from the sky like manna from heaven! At least that's what the Archangel Gabriel just told me over cards last night.

(Too much?)

Response recorded on August 21, 2007

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Mostly Harmless writes...

1. Since Mr. Duval isn't the head of the Illuminati as previously thought then who is the true number one? Is he a previously established character?

2. Given that the Illuminati has a membership of 666, I guess they aren't ubiquitous as previously thought, so how much control do they really have over world affairs?

3. When was Thailog recruited by them?

Greg responds...

1. I'll tell you right here and right now in this forum. Where else would I reveal it after all? The answer is, that is the identity of #1 is >urk< >ugh< did you have to use the slow-acting poisonous blow-darts, you bastard?! You know how painful they are!!!

2. How much do you want them to have?

3. Prior to issue #5.

Response recorded on August 21, 2007

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Greg Bishansky writes...

This is more a ramble reply to Alex Garg's post, but I definitely think this is a fascinating subject, and could make a great Ask Greg discussion.

Honestly, at this point, I don't think anyone in the Manhattan Clan cares much about any of the clones. Any of them. What was the first thing said when Thailog appeared to perish and the clones had no where to go? "We can't just bring them back to the Clock Tower can we? I mean, they kind of give me the creeps."

Right there, the Manhattan Clan wanted nothing to do with them. Wanted to pretend they didn't exist. Let Talon take them to live in a sewer. Out of sight, out of mind. Not that the reaction is not understandable, it is. I think we'd all be uncomfortable around clones of ourselves made against our will and knowledge. It's a fundamental violation of our individuality.

Did any of the Manhattan Clan go down to see them between "The Reckoning" and "Invitation Only"? I'd be very surprised if the answer is yes. The one time they do go down, they want something. Goliath is following Elisa's request to attempt to date Delilah. Brooklyn... just wants to make a play for the only available female he's aware of. They were down there both for selfish reasons.

So, yeah, all of their talk about free will probably was less for the clones' sake, and more towards the Manhattan Clan's hatred for Thailog. They hate Thailog, so naturally they don't want the clones to be helping him. At this point, do they have any other reason to care?

Lexington's only real concern when Brentwood chooses Thailog is how it makes him [Lexington] look. Not concern for Brentwood's safety, or eventually having to face him as an enemy. Lex thinks it makes *him* look bad.

I know this is a pretty serious indictment of the Manhattan Clan. I love them, they are heroes, there's a lot to admire in each and every one of them. But, they're not saints. Which is fine, they're more interesting this way... if I wanted a group of pure goodie goods, I'd read a Silver Age Justice League of America comic book.

Greg responds...

I don't disagree with any of the above, but I would temper it.

Again, I think Angela has an INTEREST in individuality and wouldn't want Delilah blindly following ANYONE. Delilah may have reacted to Angela as if Angela was giving her another order, but I don't think it's hard to see that that was clearly NOT Angela's intent. And if your looking for proof, just check out Angela's relationship with Goliath. She respects him as a leader. As a hero. A legend. She loves him as a father. But check out the World Tour, particularly Sanctuary. She's hardly following G. blindly.

And Goliath... in his slow, deliberate, bleeding-to-death way... had clearly given all this some thought too. He told Thailog that Delilah would not CHOOSE him (i.e. Thailog). He may seem confident of this (perhaps even over-confident), but there's nothing to indicate that Goliath plans to decide FOR her. And he doesn't decide for Brentwood either. There's preference and action. Two different things.

Response recorded on August 21, 2007

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Alex Garg writes...

This is something that had I wanted to bring up in the Culture/Biology panel at the Gathering, but we ran out of time. Besides, it feels a little better to be able to ask this question now that "Bash" has broad exposure (although it's still new enough to constitute a SPOILER warning).

Gargoyles and Free Will.

A theme of Gargoyles since the introduction of the clones has been just how much control they have over making their own decisions, particularly given that they were programmed to obey Thailog. This comes to a head in "Masque" and "Bash," where the clones are bombarded with the "Free Will" message to the point where they can finally make their choices, but what's most curious to me is the pressure that they receive from the Manhattan Clan.

It doesn't surprise me that Maggie would bring it up in "Masque" - she was born and raised in a democratic society, so the idea that people have free will and the right to self-determination is ingrained in her psyche - but for Goliath and Lexington, and Angela to a lesser extent, to make the case for it in "Bash" was more surprising.

Goliath and Lexington both come from an era where there was no broadly applied concept of a person's right to self-determination. On the human side was the reign of the Catholic Church (and I'm writing very generally now) which in terms of ethics framed the argument for free will in such a way that while humans have the *capacity* to choose between different courses of action, our *obligation* is to obey God's commands; the fact that they did not was why we were expelled from the Garden of Eden. Therefore, under those circumstances, we don't really have a choice - God's infinite wisdom overrides our mortal judgments. That dogma then went on to inform the monarchies of the day, Scotland not excepting, where kings ruled by Divine Mandate. The idea that a king could be overthrown for unjust rule wasn't introduced until St. Thomas Aquinas, an act which prior to him (and even well after) would have been viewed as taking up arms against the will of God; and even then it was the laws of the Church which would be the standard by which a king would be considered ruling in an unjust manner, not the opinions of his subjects.

The gargoyles' "government" also has no apparent nod to free will or self-determination. Goliath became the leader because Hudson said so, Brooklyn became second-in-command because Goliath said so, and in each case the other gargoyles appear to acquiesce unconditionally to these decisions. Even in mating, you mentioned in the panel that gargoyles aren't necessarily choosing mates as much as they are naturally drawn to one another - even in human rituals it's a subject of debate over just how much "choice" we have in when and with whom we fall in love.

While you've said that gargoyles are free to pursue their own hobbies and curiosities, it doesn't strike me that alone is enough to constitute an understanding of free will in the sense of making determinations about leadership in the way that the clones were being pressured to choose between the Labyrinth and Thailog.

So from what we saw in "Bash," where Lexington demands to know why the clones are choosing to help Thailog, and where Goliath says that "choice must extend to those who choose unwisely" - which is a very different concept than a basic, arbitrary choice between right and wrong - I have to ask: Where have Goliath and Lexington gotten the understanding to ask those questions?

Angela also presents an interesting case, because while she was raised by humans, she was raised by humans for whom it can't be assumed would have had the same understanding of free will as you and I do having grown up in a democratic society as it applies to personal choice, much less in making decisions of leadership. So is her command to Delilah founded more on her hatred of Thailog, or is she also making a case for free will; and if the latter, what informs that for her?

Touching on the same vein: Since 1996 would be the first U.S. election year that the gargoyles have really been exposed to - it seems to me that in 1994 the Manhattan clan was more curious about their new physical surroundings than cultural; and it was a midterm election anyway with much less media hype than a presidential cycle - what do the gargoyles of the Manhattan clan make of democracy, given their less than democratic heritage?

Greg responds...

Free will seems essential to any discussion of Abrahamic religions... starting with the Garden of Eden. What God wants does not mean He FORCES you to do it, and I think even 10th century Catholics and Scotsmen got this idea whether or not they could articulate it.

And free will doesn't absolve us of personal debts, religious responsibilities, community obligations and the like. (Not to mention the laws of physics. Just because I have the free will to say I want to fly, doesn't mean I can.) Certainly Gargoyles would understand that. One ignores community contracts (even -- again -- if one cannot articulate these ideas) at the risk of banishment. (Cf. Iago, Demona or Yama.)

As for the articulation itself, well... I think we have demonstrated that Goliath is very well read. And that Lex is a very fast study. As for Angela... well, like her mother, she's not one to deny the right of the individual. I'll leave the rest to your interpretation.

Democracy probably seems to them to be the lesser of evils vis-a-vis humans. But I don't think of Gargoyle society as undemocratic per se. Leadership questions don't seem to vibe with democracy gargoyles-wise, but a good leader is sensitive to the needs of those he leads. Hudson chose Goliath, and as far as we know there was only one real objection to the choice (a clear minority). Goliath chose Demona as his second, with no objections that we know of. Goliath chose Brooklyn as his second with, again, NO objections... even from the two other gargoyles competing for the gig. So... draw your own conclusions. Gargoyles may just be better attuned to each other based on NON-verbal cues... They don't need to name things or spend a fortune on television advertisements to know what there community is looking for in a leader.

Or maybe not. Interesting questions. We should definitely raise these issues again next summer.

Response recorded on August 21, 2007

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Alex Garg writes...

My review and observations of issue #5, SPOILER heavy.

Starting with the big picture first, this issue is by far the finest to date. It completes the first new canon arc with great pacing, excellent character interactions, and action! Action is always good. The art, too, is some of the best Gargoyles artwork since the series was on air, but then Karine has been drawing Gargoyles artwork since the series was on the air and Stephanie coloring since that time as well, so I will avoid making comparisons to the other artists who have contributed to the comic as newcomers to the property (to say nothing of my bias towards those artists).

Diving into it…

The cover illustration was probably the most eye-grabbing covers I've seen on my local (…ish) comic book store's shelves in a while. It's been a while since Goliath has been so obviously, severely wounded - other times he's tended to suck it up and stay in the fight, this time he was clearly out.

I will be honest that I did NOT catch Mary and Finella's appearance on the first read. It's just been so long since I've seen them that I passed them over; but once I did recognize them, I was glad to see them again - and took my anticipation of Timedancer up a notch.

I also liked how the Judge's opening line was repeated by Thailog under much different circumstances (and I am blanking on the literary term for this…), much like in "Invitation Only" where Thailog took off of the DJ's opening statement.

Jumping ahead to keep with the conflict, I know you said at the Gathering that Angela was speaking *literally* when she called Thailog a bastard, it still seems to me that Angela, of all the clan, would be the least likely to drop that term - because even as Demona's daughter, it's hard for me to perceive even Demona using terms like that. But then Gargoyles was a show for a younger audience, so only you know what the characters are saying "off-screen."

As for the battle itself, Thailog does seem to be having a grand old time going around and slashing the gargoyles and Elisa, really, unopposed - even Brooklyn doesn't seem to put up much of a fight. More here than at other points he comes off as one sadistic, well, bastard.

Delilah's appearance at the end of the battle raises some very interesting questions - which I ask in a post right behind this one - but what I find particularly interesting is just how dismissive she is of the Manhattan clan in favor of her clan. She shuts Angela down, doesn't hesitate to stick it to Goliath, despite his pain, and she doesn't help Brooklyn to his feet on her entrance but rather Malibu. Granted, she has every right to be mad at Goliath for using her, but she seemed pretty cold to him in "Invitation Only" to begin with; and it's not that I ever thought of Delilah as being a friend of the Manhattan clan's, but I also hadn't pictured her as being quite this cold as well.

That she dismisses Thailog too, then, seems to be perfectly in keeping with her character - or what we know of it to this point. Despite being programmed as the "perfect companion," she does not like to be thought of as other people's property.

And then there's the conclusion of the combat where Brooklyn is shot down once again. It can't be easy being Super-Goyle.

Of course, Brooklyn's grief can't overshadow Elisa and Goliath finally coming to terms with their feelings for each other, but what in my mind does seem to rise to the forefront is how Dr. Sato is feeling at that moment. Not only have gargoyles been revealed to him as more than a good foundation for a costume, but that one of his acquaintances has a deep relationship with one must be a lot to take in.

I almost hope that he's too concentrated on keeping Goliath's vitals up to not pick up on Elisa's relationship to him, but somehow I doubt that.

On the Illuminati arc…

So we learn some more about the structure of the Illuminati; not only in the number of members (I should have expected nothing less than for you to have chosen the mother of all numbers in Western culture, and yet I was still surprised) but that at least the senior membership of the Illuminati does have access to a pretty good health plan.

As I said in my review/observations of "Masque," the personal staffers of powerful people tend to have the best access to said powerful people, so why Quincy's revelation necessarily *impressed* Xanatos rather than made sense to him kind of raised my eyebrow.

Then there's Shari, who I was obviously very wrong about being "third wheel." Really I don't have much else to say except mea culpa, and that Thailog looked slightly less than happy that he might be taking marching orders from her, "executive assistant" or not (whereas she seemed fine with it).

Back to the big picture…

What I like most about this issue is that it brings out everything we had seen in the last two issues - the way characters were behaving and interacting with each other, their motives and thought processes, and it resolves a number of issues from "Invitation Only" and earlier while keeping things open for stories down the road. Combined with the last two issues, it finally feels like we've gotten a new *episode* of Gargoyles out rather than a few interesting stories.

Very well done.

Greg responds...

Thanks. That was the intent.

Response recorded on August 21, 2007

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Rodrigo Barros writes...

Hi! My name is Rodrigo, I'm 28, from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. I got to know Gargoyles on TV down here. One of our networks showed the whole series back to back 2 or 3 times, I think, some time after it was already canceled in the US, or about to be. It was dubbed to Portuguese. Years later, with full grasp of the internet, I got to know more about it, and even managed to watch the whole series again, this time in English.
I was very happy when I heard about the series coming to DVD, and later about the new comic series. And even though I'm sad about the packs not progressing because of sales, that's kinda my question. You see, I know I could by the sets through Amazon.com. Thing is, even though I'm completely able to watch and understand them completely in English, it'd still be nice to have the option of the Portuguese dubbing, since it's how I got to know it in the fist place. Also, with dollar rates, the sets are almost twice as expensive to us down here. Of course, Disney considers risky to release the final set as it seems there weren't enough sales of the other 2, but wouldn't it help if they released it in other markets, International markets that may find difficult to acquire the Region 1 set? Do you believe is it possible for Disney to release the series in other regions, or is it your honest opinion that international fans should try their best to acquire the Region 1 sets?
Thank you very much for your time.

Greg responds...

It's hard to imagine that Disney would invest it regional and international sets when they've decided that the property is a non-player. So if we don't get sales up on the merchandise they ARE releasing, it's hard to imagine them extending the release and spending money on alternatives.

Response recorded on August 21, 2007

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No Name writes...

I can't find issue #5 of the comic book anywhere and I know it was going to be released on July 18. I'm going crazy!!! Can you please tell ne why I can't find it!

Greg responds...

Have you tried ordering it online from SLG or Amazon or Midtown Comics?

Response recorded on August 21, 2007


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