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I have a few questions about the Puck/Owen duality or rather who knows about it.
1. Outside of Goliath's clan living in Manhattan, David Xanatos, Fox, and Alex, how many others know about that duality?
2. Does Thailog know about that duality?
1. Well, Oberon and Titania know. That's all we know for sure.
2. Why would he?
If gargoyles die without enough sunlight, wouldn't their adjustment to 12-hour sleep cycles in the poles kill them during the 6 months of night?
"Kill them" might be putting it a bit on the strong side, but it's certainly a problem. Of course there aren't any gargoyles at the poles currently, so it's a bit moot.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In part because both he and Elisa want to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of Receiving Stolen Property. He will be sentenced to six months in county jail including time served, with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior.
Xanatos confronts Fox and attempts to get the Eye back from her. She transforms in front of him and escapes. Xanatos intentionally involves Goliath and Elisa in an attempt to manipulate them into helping Fox and retrieving the Eye. Goliath quickly catches on and initially refuses to help. Later that night, the Trio, Goliath, Elisa, Vinnie, Brendan and Margot all attend a Greenwich Village Halloween block party. When the Werefox attacks, Goliath and Elisa agree to help Xanatos save Fox. Together, they manage to remove the Eye from the creature, which reverts to Fox. Goliath takes possession of the Eye.
Matt Bluestone convenes a meeting of the Gargoyle Taskforce (including himself, Elisa, Officers Morgan & Travanti, Detectives Harris & Chung, Margot Yale and Martin Hacker). Hacker has Illuminati meetings with Matt, Xanatos and Castaway. Morgan asks Elisa on a date. After turning him down and spending time with Jason in the hospital prison ward, she goes to the Eyrie. The gargoyles awaken at sunset. Fox has Halloween costumes for Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway and Angela in anticipation of the Masque that Xanatos is throwing later that night. Elisa breaks up with Goliath. Demona recovers the Atlantean crystal that was at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle. In, the Labyrinth, Al is showing Shari around. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive. Brooklyn wants to ask Delilah to the party, but Goliath does instead. Goliath, Brooklyn and Delilah depart. Thailog attacks. Terry Chung, Billy Greene, Susan Greene and Sarah Browne trick-or-treat at Jeffrey Robbins' home, where Hudson and Bronx are visiting. Following Illuminati orders, Xanatos takes Fox and Alexander to a party at the White House. They chat with Ambassador Chung, and David meets Illuminatus Quincy Hemings. Meanwhile, Xanatos' Masque goes on without him at the Eyrie. Attendees include Judge Roebling, Doctor Sato, Brendan, Margot, Lexington, Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway. Elisa and Morgan arrive together, as do Goliath and Delilah. Thailog, having taken the male clones from the Labyrinth, arrives to collect Delilah and stabs Goliath.
Xanatos' probation expires.
I've gotta say to everyone who keeps complaining about the errors in #6...get over it, let it go. Stop bringing it up, it was a mistake, and in my opinion it didn't take away from what was a great story. It was nice to see this "lost episode" of sorts from the World Tour, really took me back to all those great episodes from the show, while still providing us with a bit of the new. I can't wait for the next issue, the stories are great. As for the errors, not to dwell on the topic, but personally, I'm just glad to have brand new Gargoyles stories back in my life, that's what I think we should be focusing on. Keep up the great work!
"Stop bringing it up." Sound advice.
To clarify a comment in my review of issue #6, when I said "The ending with Coldsteel was quite interesting and also quite trusting of David Xanatos.", I meant that Xanatos didn't appear to be wearing armor or have any visible security forces watching him when he was meeting with Coldsteel. In other words, it looked like David Xanatos left himself wide open to be attacked by Coldsteel unless there are unknown mechanisms in place to keep Coldsteel from attacking David Xanatos.
I'm sure David's prepared for any contingency.
Sorry it's so late, the computer ate my fist copy. But better late then never I suppose.
My mom had already left for work when I got up and, thank God, so had my brother. Dad and I had a quiet couple of hours before hitting the road. We actually went along the mountain range, so the scenery was pretty, but nothing too remarkable happened. We stopped by VA Tech so my dad could say hi to an old student, and show me the lamp post he ran into during a foot race. The memorial was still in the works when we got there.
It was almost sundown when we arrived at the cabin we would spend the night in. Dad pulled out a guide book and the convention schedual, explaining to me he had a few things he wanted to see and that I should prioratize when I wanted to be at the Gathering.
"Why didn't we do any of this today?" I asked.
"Because we're staying here tonight, and these are about 300 miles away in Tenessee."
"Oh, good point."
"But aside from that minor detail; we're on the same page, right?"
We left early, and despite spending hours in the car, I was suprisingly patient. Until we were only fifteen minutes away. There might still be finger marks where I gripped the door handle; I'll have to check.
Dad and I actually went to the convention before checking into our hotel. Our first lesson: Never, under any cercumstances, use the elevator!
We wandered about in the registration room and met some really nice people. Even Dad was impressed by the artwork and I was uncharacteristly talkative when I met the other con-goers. Dad tapped me on the shoulder...
"Hey, Rach, that guy in the t-shirt-- Isn't that your hero?"
I looked over my shoulder. Yeah, my dad was right, that was Greg Weisman.
"Go on, get his autograph," Dad urged. I stepped up to the table, greeted him, and managed to stutter something close enough to 'Could you sign this please?' that Greg could understand me. Heh, ^^;
I regained my composure in time for the Radio Play Auditions. I could do the Southern and Scotish accents okay, but after doing the Scotish, I couldn't make the British accent work. Dang. In line a met another girl close to my age who also had an autism spectrum disorder, it was easy to talk to her, so that was fun.
I got to stay through Opening Ceremonies, but had to leave before the music video contest.
The Team Atlantis episode was really cool, even if it wasn't all animated.
We missed the Radio Play Casting by a little, but I found out I was in it. The Mug-A-Guest with Greg was fun, and I asked a few questions my mom wanted to know too since she couldn't make it. Dad went out for lunch during the Radio Play Rehearsals, and just made it back in time for the Radio Play itself. I was Maggie the Cat; I got a little nervous, and the reason the grunt when the debris fell on her sounded so weird was because I acctually choked for a second. It work well though.
When Dad and I came back from having chili dogs, we ran into Greg and a group of con-goers by the crosswalk. I got really happy when I was told I did a good job, and I looked forward to telling my family they could see it on You-Tube soon. I kept my lips sealed about the content of issue 5 though.
End part one
Glad you had fun.
And you're right -- better late than never.
This question is actually not about Gargoyles.
I was wondering if you have seen or know about the animated series "Avatar: The Last Airbender." If you have seen it, what do you think of it?
I've heard some people complain about how animation and animated shows in America have been in a decline since the 90's, but Avatar is actually the best animated show I've seen since Gargoyles. It came out a few years ago on Nickelodeon and is currently in it's third season.
The shows strong points are many that made Gargoyles such a great show, namely very complex characters, a complex plot and excellent pacing among other qualities. Like Gargoyles, it also appeals to many different age groups, not just kids.
You've mentioned how it would be difficult to air a show like Gargoyles these days with the current lack of S&P freedom, but the creators of Avatar have nonetheless managed to make a great show with an excellent storyline apparently without sacrificing anything, and it has become quite a hit.
So I thought you might be interested in looking into it, if you haven't already.
I've seen clips from Avatar, but I haven't seen a full episode.
I've heard very good things, but it doesn't change my argument. Nick has Avatar and... and...
Myself and others I know have pitched shows to Nick, shows that might be great companions to Airbender, and yet... and yet...
Avatar seems to be the exception that TESTS the rule. But the rule seems to still be in place.
By the way, it was very kind of you to pass on SLG's apology even though none of the problems were your fault at all. It must be very frustrating to you, too. But as long as the property is still producing, we've come out ahead.
Hello again Greg,
I've been thinking about Greek mythology and the little glimpses we've seen of how it fits into the Gargoyles Universe (and hungering for more, of course! ;) ) I've gotten to wondering what books you've read about it, and which ones you liked the most? You've mentioned several times your particular fondness for Theseus (the bastard), and you and Todd have had conversations about favorite Arthurian books. Is Theseus your only favorite character in Greek Mythology, or are there any others?
I myself was first introduced to Greek myths as a child with the D'Aulaires book. I next read Edith Hamilton's book. Since then I've read bits and pieces of many books on the subject, but I've only read a few tragedies and the Odyssey from start to finish (I found the Odyssey pretty boring, at least in translation). So I guess I can't really say I have any favorite book on the subject.
Oddly, my favorite source for Greek Mythology I've used so far is not a book, but a website, www.theoi.com. (This will sound like an advert but I ~love~ this website) It's a very thorough collection of research and information about the Greek gods. It must have every god, spirit, monster, or giant ever, no matter how obscure. Perhaps this sounds strange (I hope it isn't presumptuous), but if you're ever looking for a great source about Greek Mythology for research, I think you'd find this website very useful.
What I like most about theoi is that it gives information in the form of quotes (translated of course) from lots of ancient texts, and provides all the different versions of each story and genealogy. Different ancient writers told different versions of the myths, and had different ideas about who was the son/daughter of who, but most print sources I've read only provide the most common version of each myth, or the one or two versions preferred by the author. So this is a source in which the information is minimally interpreted, so to speak, by intervening minds.
The big downside of this website is that it has almost no information about the heros and mortals, and even less information from archaeology. The webmaster is only just starting to add hero information. (I myself find gods much more interesting than heros, so I don't particularly mind). However, for the gods the information is excellent.
Theseus is my favorite character in Greek Mythology. I'll admit to having a fondness for bastards (in the literal sense) in literature/mythology. I'm fascinated with the archetype and its variations. Also the parallelism between Arthur and Theseus are quite startling to me.
The D'Aulaires' book is indeed one of my ALL TIME favorite books. Same with their book on Norse Gods & Giants. I still use both as a reference. Although I'm not generally a fan of Cliff Notes, I'll admit that their "Mythology" booklet is a VERY handy reference. I also have Robert Graves two volume book(s) on Greek Mythology, which has(have) been very useful. I've got a couple of geneology chart type books. But they're at home, and I'm at the office, and I don't remember the names of the authors or their exact titles at this moment. I've also read both the Iliad and the Odyssey. Probably liked 'em better than you did. A lot probably depends on which translation you read, I suppose. I might also recommend Isaac Asimov's Fantastic Voyage, a cool sci-fi take o the Odyssey.
I'm semi-familiar with theoi.com. I've used it on occasion. Though I guess I still prefer my books.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
After picking up her Halloween costume, Elisa encounters the Werefox in Mr. Jaffe's store.
You said in your FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) archives that Broadway and Angela would probably raise their children the gargoyle way, "children of the clan, not individuals," by not favoring biological children over the rest of the clan's children, but does that mean they won't identify their own biological children. I believe that if they didn't recognize their biological children, they wouldn't have been so particular about the naming of their own children (Artus, Gwenyvere, and Lancelot) after Arthurian characters in reference to Broadway and Angela's connections to Arthur, Broadway being inspired to read from hearing about the Scrolls of Merlin and Angela living on Avalon where Arthur slept. So, do Angela and Broadway recognize their biological children but attempt to parent all clan children instead of favoring their biological children, or is the naming of all their children after Arthurian characters coincidence?
You're assuming that Broadway and Angela named them. Facts not in evidence.
I know you don't want to go into the specifics of Samson's parentage because it doesn't matter in Gargoyle culture but from what I've read on GargWiki <http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/> about Canon-in-training characters, you've hinted that "Artus will most closely resemble Broadway and Hudson," "Gwenyvere may most closely resemble Angela and Demona," and Lancelot "may resemble Goliath to some degree." (Did they misquote you?) You've said that Samson would also resemble Goliath. Sense Lancelot, among Broadway and Angela's children, resembles Goliath the most, wouldn't it be logical for fans to assume that Samson is the son of Lancelot, who he probably resembles as they both resemble Goliath? You don't have to say if I'm right or not, just tell me whether or not my logic is flawed in some way.
Well, it's not that your logic isn't... logical, but of course it is flawed. I'm sure people in most families can point to someone who doesn't particularly look like his or her parents, but could be a dead ringer for old photos of a grandparent.
You said in the archives, in regards to the Guatemalan gargoyels, that "while the pendants are keeping them flesh by day, they age at the same rate as humans." If Zafiro II has the saphire amulet, how can he be the same age as Samson and Delilah if the pendant makes him age at the rate of a human, which is twice as fast as that of a gargoyle?
As more recent archives will indicate, I've since gone with the notion that the pendants magically compensate, and the pendant-wearing gargoyles age at a normal gargoyle rate.
Hi Greg, I'm glad the forum's back up because I have a question that's been nagging me. On the GARGOYLES 2198 CONTEST RESULTS Ramble, you said that, because Delilah II is part human, she feels "like she's not truly a part of either (species). Upon learning of her "heritage", humans seem to react with fear and even disgust. And Delilah has never been confident that the gargoyles she was raised with don't feel the same way." If Gargoyles raise their children without knowledge of biological parents, Delilah shouldn't know she's part human, as it would require her to know she's a biological descendent of the first Delilah. If gargoyles raise their children collectively, how does Delilah know she's part human. Does the Labyrinth Clan have different customs, having been originally led by Talon, a mutate that was once human and thus having founded the Clan on human customs? Or does Delilah notice qualities about herself that are human qualities and subsequently realize she's part human?
I'm mostly inclined to leave this to your imagination for now, but suffice to say the Labyrinth gargoyles are aware of their history and origins, making some things obvious -- independent of immediate bio-parentage.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Xanatos anticipates being released by October 31st, the date of his next pre-trial appearance.
Like Matt before her, Elisa questions G.F. Benton, unaware that he is really Dominic Dracon. She too heads for the old location of the Silver Falcon. Broadway is caught in a cave-in at dawn and turns to stone. Elisa is taken hostage with Matt by Tony Dracon and his henchman Glasses. When Tony fails to find the jewels Mace hid, Elisa bargains with him, offering to trade the true location of the jewels for her and Matt's life. That night, Elisa, Matt and Broadway manage to take down Dracon, his men and his grandfather Dominic.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.
I'm glad to hear that safety measures have been put into place. Just to be more clear, my anger lies with SLG, not you, and I probably should have never posted the question the way that I did. Emotion overtook logic. I posted before knowing the facts and before your apology and felt awful about it, but what's done is done.
I would like to apologize about the hyperbole from my earlier post. Just to clear the air, factually, my friend has approximately 2,000 comics and has been collecting them for 15 years of his life. Also, I misquoted him earlier. He has also seen WAY worse errors, but he's never seen that specific error.
You are correct to say that the virtues of the issue and the series as a whole still outweigh the errors. It's going to take more than a one page error to make me walk away from this comic or Gargoyles as a whole. My friends laugh and shake their heads when I hang The Gathering fliers, but I still do it because I love Gargoyles, I love the comic and nothing is going to change those facts. Just keep writing 'em, I'll keep reading 'em.
And now... let's all just move on.
Okay, I did the math and considering how many levels there are in the Illuminati and the number of members in each level, there are 666 members in the Illuminati. Was that unintentional or is there some sort of Satanic thing going on in the Illuminati? If it isn't Satanic, what's the relevance of 666 in the Illuminati? If you won't reveal the relevance of 666 yet, can you at least say if the Illuminati is Satanic or not?
It was intentional, but that's all I'm going to say.
What happened to the helicopter Lexington modified from the episode "Her Brother's Keeper"? It wasn't destroyed at the end of the episode so why don't the gargoyles continue to use it? Did they dismantle it off camera. If not, what did they do with it?
They hid it. They generally don't have much use for it.
And personally, it's a source of frustration for me. We were ... shall we say... "encouraged" to put the helicopter in for Kenner. We jumped through hoops in that story to make it believable (to the extent that it is) and then Kenner never made that toy. I'm not saying it never existed, but I can't forsee bringing it back. Though that's not etched in stone.
While the notion of mists surrounding the skiff on its journeys from and to Avalon during the World Tour was something that the story needed anyway, to give the proper sense of mystery about travelling to Oberon's isle and back again, I've sometimes wondered whether that concept was also intended as a visual reference to the title of Marion Zimmer Bradley's "The Mists of Avalon". Do you know if the name of her book was an influence there (obviously not the book itself, since Bradley's Avalon is very different from the Avalon of "Gargoyles")?
I"ve never read Bradley's book. It was given to me as a gift, but I've been reluctant to read yet another modern treatment of the legend, so as not to color my own. Of course, I do know the title, so it's theoretically possible it influenced me, but I think it's much more likely that the choice was a pragmatic necessity combined with a cool moody choice.
I want to apologize about returning to the production errors in the final paragraph of my review of #6. I should have looked over the whole thing before submitting it, remembered what I had said in the first paragraph, and omitted the comment on the errors in the end paragraph accordingly. I'm sorry if I upset you, Greg.
No biggie. I was just cranky.
Clarifications on Elisa and relationships...
When I talked about Elisa flirting with Jason, that was acknowledging her actions in Hunter's Moon more than the comic but those actions impact what we see in Issue 3, where you are correct that they have stayed friends despite what transpired in Hunter's Moon though that's not in the comic. I should have been clearer about that.
And I never said Elisa flirted with Morgan, just the fact that she went on the date with him so quickly instead of taking a step back to focus first before doing anything after the speech with Goliath at the castle. Her actions just seem jumpy and rushed.
You'll probably still disagree with me and that's OK. I just want to make sure that you read me correctly.
No, I think Elisa's actions were "jumpy and rushed". She felt she had to demonstrate a change. I'm not defending it, but I understand it (or, uh, obviously I wouldn't have written it).
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Vinnie's driver's license is revoked when he claims gargoyles smashed his motorcycle into a wall.
Elisa receives the Trio's Halloween costumes. Matt, still in Dracon's custody, finds out that Mace's Silver Falcon letter has nothing to do with the Illuminati. But he decides that if he ever gets out of this situation alive, he'll continue his hunt for Mace.
With Lex's help Goliath tracks the Hunters to an upstate hydroelectric dam. Goliath and Broadway battle the Hunters. Elisa tries to break up the fight, but she and Jason seemingly fall off the dam to their deaths. That day, Robyn and a vengeful Jon manage to decrypt Demona's disk and learn about her plan. The Praying Gargoyle will protect her and her kind, while the Medici Tablet, the D/I-7 and the CV-1000 will blend science and sorcery to destroy humanity. Meanwhile, some distance below the dam, Jason manages to pull Elisa to safety. The night of the Hunter's Moon, Demona, the Hunters, the gargoyles, the NYPD's Gargoyles Taskforce (GTF), the press and many bystanders all converge at St. Damien's Cathedral in Manhattan. While Demona prepares her spell, the Hunters and the other gargoyles fight. Jason and Elisa arrive, trying to call a truce. But Jon refuses. He shoots at Goliath but badly injures Jason instead. Jon flees. Goliath stops Demona by destroying the Praying Gargoyle, forcing her to abandon her plan or die herself. Demona flees, but the GTF has the rest of the gargoyles dead to rights. Suddenly, Xanatos shows up and rescues them.
Follow up to your question about Shari and Claw in my Issue 3-5 review:
Why I thought Shari and Claw should have left together is that the last time we see them in Issue 4, Claw is slumped over Shari's shoulder. Her reference is "And since Claw here isn't much of a storyteller, I'll go." The fact she is visually carrying Claw implies an intenet to take him as visual proof of what has happened, but she'll be the one to provide the words, especially given her emphasis on Claw in the panel's dialogue besides just supporting him physically. It certaintly wasn't required, I suppose, but somehow I had expected this to be what Shari would do.
Well... Claw isn't exactly a subtle visual aid...