Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...

Still reserving anything overall commentwise until issue 5 comes out, but there's a question I keep coming back to and that is Elisa's costume choice as Jasmine, considering she was planning on going with Goliath initially.

Thematically, I'm sure there's some symbolism tied into that choice and I love the thoughts several have shared here.

But part of me wonders why not Esmeralda from NOTRE DAME as that was the Disney movie of Summer 1996? Or did she boycott it due to the comic portrayal of gargoyles?

I know that's probably setup to a smartass answer but I'm ok with that.

Todd Jensen writes...

I know that you're not that fond of questions involving "The Goliath Chronicles", but this is something that I thought I should mention here anyway.

One of the episodes of "The Goliath Chronicles" (it was the one involving Taurus and Proteus in New York) has gained particular notoriety among "Gargoyles" fans because the animators somehow made Elisa resemble Jasmine from "Aladdin". As a result, I found it amusing when, in #4 of the new comic, you had Elisa going to the masquerade party as Jasmine.

Given your past comments on the Goliath Chronicles and how you don't even remember them that clearly, I doubt that you deliberately intended that as an in-joke; also, it makes sense that Elisa would choose that costume because in the previous Halloween party in "Gargoyles", she'd gone as another Disney heroine (Belle from "Beauty and the Beast"). But I still thought that I should mention the additional level of meaning that I'd gotten out of her costume choice to you.

Wesley Nichols writes...

You mentioned in earlier posts that Goliath and Elisa will have Children of their own through adoption and would be parents to the Children of the Clan. Would most of these Children be human? Most Gargoyle Clans are too small to give up their eggs for adoption and most clans are now dead so will they adopt mostly human children? I had originally thought that Tachi and Nashville would count as parents, but you mentioned that Goliath and the others would be considered Rookery Aunts and Uncles, because they did not take part in the procreation of the Hatchlings.

Chip writes...

AAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Thailog Stabbed Goliath!

Okay Okay, I had to start that way since I started my last review that way. No titles this time, we just jump straight into the story, which is cool with me. We've got Billy and Susan and a young Terry Chung (Which says to me that New Olympians is still a few years away, alas.)
BTW on a side note why does Billy and Susan's Mom let her kids dress up as convicted felons?
Hah! I figured that Hudson was off to see Robbins, and the panel with Gilly and Bronx lying by the fire just made me squeal with delight (where's Frank Welker when you need him?) It also make me wonder about that Adventure that you said that Bronx went on with Cagney during the events of Vendettas/Turf.
I think Robbins is going to figure out Hudson's little secret if he hasn't already.

Angela as Dorothy, quite apropriate symbolism there. Angela is still not quite used to New York life, (but she's learning fast)
I find it creepy that Lex is dressed exactly as he was in Puck's "Future Tense" world. I also get the feeling that I usually get when foreshadowing is involved...Or maybe I'm just paranoid. Yeah that's it.

"Move Girl" Talon yelled "Moving!" the [Labyrinth New Girl-Whose-Name-you-haven't-revealed-to-us-yet-which-isn't-a-big-deal-since-names-don't-matter-much-to-gargoyles] said moving out of the way hastily.

I'm not sure why, but that scene made me grin, and I gotta wonder, the clones may have been programed as 'robots', but they aren't. How did they feel turning on the Labyrinth residents who've been so good to them.

36-2. Something tells me we have a big-wig here.

BTW (Again) Elisa as Jasmine this year. Does Elisa just like the Disney Princesses? Going as Aurora next year? I think Elisa would make a nice Mulan.

Poor Morgan.

Owen has his own army. Why am I not surprised ;)

And the Climactic moment...Thailog stabs Goliath. Will he make it to surise. (I thing that this marks the first moment that Goliath has actually bled since the pilot episode)

Can't wait for issue #5

Purplegoldfish writes...

Now you can't get rid of me...
So, watching through my tapes of the later episodes, and I just watched "The Green," one of my favorite world tour eps.

I remember when I first saw the scene after Goliath's and Elisa's argument, when Goliath turns around to glare at Elisa, and thinking 'What was that all about?'
I never felt he did that because he was simply angry at her for her point of view. All the other arguments that we've seen the two get into usually ended with either him agreeing with her, or just shrugging her off (or screaming in her face heh)-typical male ;)

So the way Goliath just stops in his tracks and slowly and deliberately turns to stare at her for a good five or six seconds suggests more to it-as if a realization about her just hit him.

So here's my theory: I think it just kind of hits Goliath how human Elisa really is. There's not just physical differences, but cultural ones as well. He realizes they're going to clash on many things because of their respective instincts and upbringings. Maybe he's thinking of his growing feelings for her-perhaps there's some human prejudice mixed in with those feelings as well-as if he realizes their vast differences and wishes for a moment that she were born a gargoyle and not a human.
And the way Elisa looks back at him suggests that she probably knows what he's thinking and is most likely sharing those same thoughts.

So am I on the right track or totally off?

Kaylle writes...

Way back in October 2005, the day they released the cover art for the second DVD set, I watched a bunch of episodes instead of doing my homework and typed up my musings on them (mostly on Hunter's Moon and the Goliath/Elisa relationship) in my livejournal. Today I'm *still* trying to avoid my homework, and the queue is open again, so I thought I'd dig up those old musings and get your opinion on them (I may have posted something like this in the CR once as well; my apologies if you happened to catch it there). So here they are. I wrote:

"At the end of HM3, Elisa and Goliath finally get some "resolution" to their relationship. The infamous kiss it took us (and them) 65 episodes to get to. I hate to call it resolution at all because it doesn't really resolve anything; their relationship is still in a pretty uncertain place and kissing hardly changes that. But it's the first time they both admit what's going on between them and do something, however small, about it. And it provided some small measure of satisfaction for the fans, who were just beginning to realize that was all we were going to get. I remember being so hopeful, so excited, 13 years old, watching in awe as finally, *finally* the two of them "got together." I hadn't realized it was the season finale, although really it was pretty obvious (I didn't know cartoon shows *had* season finales). And I certainly hadn't realized it was, for all intents and purposes, the end." [Of course, I know now what I didn't know in October 2005-- it wasn't the end! We have a comic book!]

"But I digress. Anyway, I noticed two things today. First, in HM1, during the scene on the subway: after he dispatches the muggers, Elisa goes to Goliath, lays her head down on his chest, and says, "Nobody messes with my best friend." I always thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to say in public, although sweet. But I noticed today the way that Goliath reacts to it. Maybe I never noticed before, or maybe I just don't remember, but he reaches to touch her hair and then stops himself, grimaces, and pulls away. It happens so quickly it's easy to miss it. But something about that aborted gesture of affection really intrigues me.

"Did he stop because he thought she wouldn't appreciate the sentiment? Haven't we seen him touch her that way before? It's hard to remember because the two of them get so very few explicitly affectionate moments. There aren't a lot of episodes that deal with them. (The most obvious is The Mirror, but that was so long before this that it's hard to use it as an indication of their relationship now. Although there is that moment, while Demona and Puck are spying on them via the mirror, when Elisa sort of nuzzles her face into Goliath's shoulder. I'd love to know what the conversation was that led her to do *that*...) Their relationship is very clear to the viewer, but it's also very understated. Any romantic moments like that are part of some larger scene, some larger conversation, etc. (I was half-convinced, when I was a kid, that it was because Disney didn't want to deal with the xenophilia aspect. Now I can see that it's in character for them to act that way; both of them know what's going on but they can't admit it, can't act on it because they're certain there's no future in it. But when you're 12-13 years old you miss some of the subtler points <g>.) So, while I can think of romantic moments between Goliath and Demona, MacBeth and Gruoch, etc, Goliath and Elisa are much more subtle than that.

"So then I went picking through episodes looking for Goliath/Elisa moments. (Aren't they cute in Eye of the Beholder, dancing in their Halloween 'costumes'? Even the trio notices. "They should have Halloween more often.") As early as Awakenings 5, we see Elisa take his face in her hands. The closest embrace I can find is in Heritage, after Elisa's disappearance. They both look pretty happy to see each other there, and she doesn't show any reluctance to touch him or be held by him.

"So anyway, it could be because he thinks she won't appreciate the gesture. She has shied away from discussing their relationship in the past. Or it could be because they're in a train full of people (although, again, she's pretty much given them away to everyone on the train already).

"Or it could be because he doesn't want to let himself touch her? Because letting himself caress her hair (the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss, even if Elisa doesn't necessarily know that) means pretending, if only for a moment, that they have a relationship? And because he can't stand doing that to himself over and over again? Something to think about, anyway.

"The other thing that I noticed was that, although Goliath saw Elisa kiss Jason and heard what she said about her feelings, she doesn't know that. As far as she knows, nothing between them has changed since HM1. Obviously they're both happy to see each other after Jason rescues her (although Goliath is probably "happier" than Elisa is; at least, she didn't think he was dead). But nothing has happened, to her knowledge, to bring things between them to a head. So why does she finally decide to admit her feelings to him? Her dialogue doesn't really tell us anything, either. He says, "So... Things have come full circle," and Elisa replies, "Somehow, they always do. You know how I feel about you, right?" She brings it up apropos of nothing. (He doesn't seem startled by it, either. Why is that? I sure as heck was!)

"Is it her relationship with Jason? The realization that, even when presented with someone human who seems to be everything she's looking for (at least at first), she still wants Goliath? When offered the normal life she thinks she wants, she still chooses Goliath and the clan, and all the uncertainty and upheaval they imply. Is that it? Of course, they've had a traumatic couple of days, and that could be a reason all by itself."

At that point I decided that I'd spent way too much time analyzing things and that I really ought to be doing work, so I stopped. But I'm still intrigued by it all. I guess if I had to distill it down into a few questions, they would be:

1) Is there a reason for Goliath's gesture (or lack thereof) on the train, or am I thinking too hard/paying too much attention to tiny details?

2) Does Elisa know that touching hair is the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss? (Maybe not in so many words, since I doubt the gargoyles think of it in terms of how their gestures of affection are equivalent to human gestures, but does she realize the sort of underlying meaning of a touch like that?) And if so, how does she know? Just from observation and intuition? Did someone tell her?

3) Why does Elisa finally speak up at the end of HM3? What changes her mind about keeping quiet?

Thanks for listening to me ramble on a bit, and for taking the time to answer our questions. It's only out of love that we analyze every aspect of things :)