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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
June 16th...
1996
Peter Maza arrives in Arizona to investigate Xanatos with his daughter Beth. That evening, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx depart Avalon and arrive in Flagstaff, where Beth goes to college. Fearing that her sister might be in trouble, Elisa takes the gargoyles to Beth's apartment. Meanwhile, Xanatos finally decides to bulldoze the mystic soil carving on the land he has leased from the local tribe. Almost immediately, the Coyote Trickster magically vandalizes the building site in order to stop Xanatos. Minutes later, Peter and Beth are allowed entry onto the Xanatos construction site by a mysterious "security guard". Xanatos has them arrested for trespassing.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
June 14th...
1996
The travelers leave Avalon and arrive in Ishimura, Japan. There they meet the Ishimura Clan of Gargoyles who have lived in peace with their human neighbors for generations. At sunrise, Goliath, Angela and Bronx turn to stone alongside their new cousins. But minutes later, their human guardians are attacked by ninjas hired by Taro, a Japanese businessman who grew up in Ishimura. All the gargoyles are stolen. They awaken inside a Gargoyle Theme Park that Taro has built. Yama, second-in-command to Kai, the leader of the Ishimura Clan, tries to convince everyone to stay in the park. Goliath, Angela and Bronx attempt to leave, but are gassed and imprisoned by Taro. Beth Maza calls her father Peter and asks him to come to Arizona to investigate the local Xanatos Construction project.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
May 17th...
1996
The gargoyles, Mazas and were-panthers converges on the ancient ruins of Kara Digi. There they discover that Fara was largely manipulated by the Spider-Trickster Anansi. All concerned join forces to defeat Anansi. Fara and Tea remain were-panthers but are reconciled and vow to protect the jungle. Just before sunrise, Goliath finally acknowledges Angela as his daughter. After sunrise, Elisa tells her mother everything about her life with the gargoyles. At sunset, Elisa and the gargoyles once more return to Avalon. Diane Maza phones New York, informing her husband of Elisa's situation. Peter Maza contacts Matt Bluestone and Talon. Matt contacts Brooklyn, Lex, Broadway and Hudson.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
May 16th...
1996
Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken on Avalon and depart the island with Elisa. They land in Nigeria, in time to hear Elisa's mother, Diane Maza, tell the story of the Panther Queen before the Feast of the Panther Queen. The Maza reunion is interrupted by poachers, led by Tea, whose former love Fara Maku turns into a panther before their eyes. Tea shoots Fara, who escapes into the jungle. The gargoyles and the Mazas take down the poachers and attempt to protect Fara from Tea, who turns out to be another were-panther.
So if the Canmore's are named after your sibblings, does that mean that Elisa's sister Beth is named after your wife? Or is that just a coinsidence? (Like there's such a thing as coinscidence on "Gargoyles"....
It's not a coincidence.
been a looong time since i sent in something to Ask Greg. i didn't want to contribute to the backlog unless i had a good question. and my guess is that this will be answered on November 29th, 2006... lets see how close i get this time (usually i'm at least 6 months off)
ANYWAY
you recently posted your ramble for Cloud Fathers and i had a question. you wrote:
"We finally get to know Elisa's other sibling -- the non-mutated one. She seems like an interesting character. Very open-minded. Influenced by her mother's more academic and anthropological pursuits, but choosing to focus on the Native American side of her heritage as opposed to the African side that her mother studies.
It's interesting to me that Elisa is the only one of the siblings who really directly follows in a parent's footsteps."
now, that last statement struck me as odd because as you had previously mentioned Beth was following in her mothers athropological footsteps, even though her study takes her to a different culture, and Derek was in the police force, for a while following in his father's footsteps. so i guess i'm wondering what you meant in your statement, because it seems to me even more interesting that ALL the Maza kids followed in their parents footsteps.
and in a related question, what was Beth's official Major and when did she graduate? and for that matter what do you suppose she is doing in 2005?
thanks Greg!
October 26th, 2006. I'm a month early! YAY!
Yeah, that statement was perhaps a bit glib. So I'll back off it rather than explain it. (I think the explanation is obvious anyway, just particularly feeble.)
Beth's major, I'd imagine is Anthropology. But it's not a field I studied, so it may be more specific than that. So I won't be held to it.
As for the rest of your questions, I'm not going to confirm or deny her graduation or reveal what she might or might not be doing in the so-called present. The comic is currently set in 1996, and I don't want to reveal anymore than I already have.
One other thing about "Mark of the Panther" that I forgot to mention: I find it somehow amusing and appropriate that Elisa and Diane Maza would have a run-in with humans magically transformed into panthers in light of how a member of their family had already been turned into a panther-of-a-sort (though through science rather than through magic).
So you caught that. Good.
Will Talon/Derek ever turn bacdk to human? If so what will his response be to Elisa about choosing to work for Xanatos in the first place?
I'm not sure why his response would be any different before or after he might or might not turn back?
Could Elisa have told the chief of police about her brother's condition after Metamorphosis or The Cage?
Obviously, she could have. But she didn't.
Hi Greg. Long-winded question, so bear with me.
One of the recurring themes of Western story-telling is that those who "tamper in God's domain", to borrow a phrase, will be struck down for their hubris. After the enterance of Frankenstein into our collective consciousness, one of the "rules" for Western literature is that Frankenstein must always be destroyed by his monster, for his arrogance in playing god.
The reason I bring this up, is that Xanatos is a man who seems to like playing god. And he has left a trail of monsters in his wake.
I'll ignore Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf for the purposes of this question, since it could be argued that they were already monsters who merely allowed their exteriors to be altered to match their true natures. (Although, it could also be argued that those three were tempted by David and his offers of power and vengeance, but at the end of the day, I still think they all damned themselves willingly)
I'd go so far as to even ignore the mutates, because even though they become monsterous looking, they really don't fit the bill as "monsters". They're just ordinary people who, by virtue of making some bad character judgements, find themselves with fur and wings. (Although it probably doesn't help Xanatos' karma any)
But even ignoring those two examples, you still have...
1. Coldstone. Such an obvious Frankenstein archtype that you joked about it. (The "It's alive! ALLLLLLLIVE!" sequence remains one of my favorites from the whole show) Of course, you could lay Coldstone at least partially at Demona's feet as well, so we'll move on.
2. Thailog. Grown in a lab, created with a mixture of different people, (Goliath's body and temper, Xanatos' mind and ethics, Sevarius'... libedo? Whatever accounts for Delilah) he turns almost immediately on his "fathers" You could call Thailog Sevarius' creature rather then Xanatos' except that David is the force behind his creation, and that Anton, for all his mad scientist posturing, could be seen as no more then a lab assistant, an Igor to David's Dr. Frankenstein.
3. The Coyote robot series. Xanatos' most personal "creature", the one to whom he gave his face (well, half of it) and voice. Loyal (?) to David for now, but unless forming the Ultrapack is David's idea, he presumably goes indepentant eventually. That, and we know he sets his sights on galactic domination in 2198, presumably not with his creator's blessing. (Then again, I could be wrong)
4. The Matrix. Created so that David and Fox could reshape the entire planet at their whim. If that's not arrogance, I don't know what is. Admittedly, I don't think it's becoming sentient along the way was part of the plan, and it's inclusion here might be a bit of a stretch, but I thought it was an example of Xanatos' hubris, if nothing else.
So, I guess, after all that lead up, my question is this: Would the pattern hold true? Would one (or all) of Xanatos' "creatures" come back to bite him in the ass later? As Elisa said "I wouldn't want Xanatos' karma."
There is a second part to this question, but I'll submit it separately, in case it's viewed as an idea.
Well, for starters, I'd argue your premise. Victor Frankenstein's life was certainly decimated by the monster he created and abandoned -- but he survived the experience, sadder and hopefully wiser.
Moreover, it was the abandonment that was his true sin in Mary Shelley's original work. The creation was certainly hybris. But Shelley is pretty darn clear that she viewed the abandonment as worse. And I tend to agree. It's nature vs. nurture. The creature wasn't created evil. He was driven to it.
As to X's karma and whether it will all come back to bite him in the ass, I think the answer is clearly yes. But I really see it as a separate question. That is, it is a karma question more than simply a playing god question. That's one element. But only one. After all, one might argue that David and Fox were playing god by bringing Alexander into the world. But I wouldn't argue that. And I'm sure that's not what you had in mind.
So let's go through the numbers.
I tend to agree that Wolf, Hyena and Jackal built their own cages. And for the record, seem quite happy to live in them.
The Mutates seem to be following the same path as the gargoyles themselves. That is to say, that Xanatos woke the gargoyles, and has often suffered for it since. He then turned these four humans into mutates, and has had to suffer a bit (though admittedly not much) for that. It will be interesting to see Talon's post-Hunter's Moon reaction to Goliath and Co. moving back into the Castle. But the larger truth is that Talon, Maggie and Claw are making lives for themselves.
1. Coldstone. Well, yeah, duh. This is our Frankenstein's monster. But as with most things, Xanatos is too smart to truly follow in Victor's footsteps. He helps create the creature -- and certainly uses it -- but he never simply abandons it. And he also tries to balance (or bury) the Karmic scales, by helping out with Coldstone's Multiple Personality Disorder and by building Coldsteel and Coldfire.
2. Thailog. Here's the big threat, frankly. A guy with something to prove and three fathers to prove it all to. I think Xanatos hasn't seen the last of Thailog. One could argue that Thailog is the only guy to ever beat Xanatos at his own game (in Double Jeopardy). So the hybris of creating him has already bitten X's ass. But I doubt Thailog is through.
3. Coyote... I just don't want to reveal too much on this right now. Sorry.
4. I really think you have to chalk Matrix up to Fox's hybris (and competitive spirit) rather than to David's. She was certainly having the Matrix engineered for her and her man, but that doesn't mean that Xanatos was behind it. That would assume that she cannot operate independently. And I sure as heck wouldn't assume that about her.
So the short answer: yes. But it's all very nuanced.
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