A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Thank you so much for the Bad Guys timeline info. Now, if you would please share the dates and descriptions from your timeline of the events of "The Rock," "Rock & Roll," and "Rock of Ages."
I believe this will bring the GargWiki up to date with all things canon.
Isn't all that stuff in the trade itself?
Not a question, but a comment. I was watching "Temptation" again, and when Demona first approaches Brooklyn she has this line "wasn't this like old times, fighting together side by side, comrades in arms..." and I have to say, kudos. Thanks to "Tyrants" and "The Gate" there so many more layers upon layers to that line especially. I could be wrong, but I never got the impression that they knew each other all that well prior to the massacre, so I used to wonder if the reference was generic or if she was just trying to make an appeal. Now, well... now the context of the line has changed, and for the better.
I don't know if the idea for their team up against Constantine existed in your head way back when "Temptation" was written, but I love moments of creative serendipity.
It didn't way back when, but I ALSO think they fought side-by-side in the past from Brooklyn's POV. Keep in mind there's YEARS of adventures in GARGOYLES: DARK AGES.
First I'd like to say I really like your work on Gargoyles and the Spectacular Spider-Man, and thus far am really enjoying Young Justice. Keep up the great work.
I've recently finished reading Clan-Building for the who-knows-how-many-times-now and was wondering, has anyone who worked on Gargoyles (cast or crew) read it? If so what did they think about it? From the Gathering videos on Youtube it seems Keith David and Thom Adcox have really become fans of the show, so I assume they would like to see more of it. Also, given the fact they've attended many of the Gatherings it seems they're quite fond of the show. Also I would think Frank Paur was sure to check the comics given he co-produced the show with you. Michael Reaves seems also like someone how'd be interested in the comics given how tremendous his contribution to the show was.
I realize not every writer or voice actor of the show would still keep track of it 10 years or so after it was made, but the ones that I mentioned kinda gave me the impression they would be interested to read it.
Thank you for your time, and again keep up the great work.
Don't know. You'd have to ask them.
For the GargWiki's timeline, I was wondering if you would share the dates and descriptions from your timeline of the events from #10, #11, ans #12 of "Gargoyles."
Time-Dancing Brooklyn arrives and immediately encounters King Constantine, MaÃl Brigti, Gillecomgain and Brother Valmont. He rescues Mary and Finella (and the Grimorum Arcanorum) from villagers, who believe the two women are witches. He gains a sword in the process. Maol Chalvim, Findlaech, Kenneth III (a.k.a. The Grim) and Bodhe discuss how to topple Constantine, perhaps by allying with gargoyles. Constantine and Gillecomgain destroy a cell of gargoyles at Sruighlea, and Demona finds the rubble. (âThe Gateâ) Brooklyn, Mary and Finella journey to Wyvern but are unable to acquire Goliathâs piece of the Phoenix Gate. Constantine shaves his head. Demona tells her cell of gargoyles, including Second, Sacrifice, Brooksbro, Schnozz, Kermit, True, Chomp and Chaw about the dead Sruighlea gargoyles. Brooklyn, Mary and Finella make contact with Grim, and Brooklyn tracks down Demona to get her help. (âTyrantsâ)
Hunterâs Moon, 997
All combatants and their armies converge at Rathveramoen. Valmont takes the Grimorum. (âTyrantsâ) Valmont uses the Grimorum to rain arrows from heaven. Sacrifice, MaÃl Brigti and the old nag Magus are killed. Demona ends the spell. Brooklyn returns the Grimorum to Finella. Constantine III is killed at age @26 at the Battle of Rathveramoen by the popular Kenneth III (Katharineâs cousin, the son of Duff). The Phoenix returns and Brooklyn, Finella and Mary leave this time period with the Grimorum. (âPhoenixâ)
Saturday, January 10th, 1997
Brooklyn is accidentally sent dancing through time by the Phoenix that was inside the Phoenix Gate. (âThe Gateâ) He returns to the present mere seconds after he departed. But for him, forty years have passed, and he has not come back alone. Brooklyn brings along his mate Katana, their son Nashville, the gargoyle beast Fu-Dog and an unhatched gargoyle egg, nicknamed Egwardo. (âPhoenixâ)
Thanks for answering my question about Fleur and the Grim's voices.
Who do you imagine for the following characters?
You know, I'm not going to keep playing this game. It's occurred to me that it's better to let you guys hear what you hear in your heads. That's all I'm doing.
Some time ago, I mentioned a book by Eleanor Prosser called "Hamlet and Revenge", which argued that Hamlet's goal to avenge his father on Claudius was not a righteous duty, but a misguided and dangerous quest. Recently, I thought about a passage in it in connection to "Clan-Building: Volume Two".
In one of the early chapters, the author discusses Kyd's "The Spanish Tragedy", one of the leading revenge-plays before "Hamlet". The protagonist, Hieronimo, is out to avenge the murder of his son Horatio. After discovering his son's body near the start of the play, he decides not to bury it until he can achieve his revenge, an act which, Prosser comments, would have unsettled the audience.
This reminded me of the scene in "Clan-Building" where, after Demona reports the slaughter of the Sruighlea cell by Constantine and Gillecomgain, True suggests that they hold a Wind Ceremony for the dead gargoyles, and Demona rejects it in favor of pursuing revenge on the humans who did the deed. I just thought I'd share it with you.
Thanks. I like the parallel a lot. And I agree with what it reveals about character... though I've never read "The Spanish Tragedy" unfortunately. At least not yet.
Hey Mr. Weisman,
I noticed that in the Bad Guys issues, character's inner thoughts were shown through narration boxes, while in the final few issues of Clan-Building, Brooklyn's thoughts were shown in cloud-shaped thought balloons. Is there any reason for the difference?
It's stylistic. I think captions are more distancing... so they feel more thoughtful, less immediate. Thought balloons seem more casual.
I decide those kind of things on a case-by-case basis.
About "Egwardo" how far along is he (or she seeing as it will hatch into Tachi)
in the incubation process as of the family coming back to the manhaten clan
Egwardo will hatch in 1998. Just over a year from when Brooklyn returns to "the present" in January 1997.
Quick couple of comments on the recent graphic novels...
It was such a pleasure to read new material and emerse again in the world of gargoyles. I hope we get a chance to do so again quite soon.
Loved the Star Wars homage cover
I was a little confused by the events with the stone. The explanation helped, but I still liked it.
There is a thread on the Girl-Wonder forums about female characters who look fantastic and none sexualized. Coco met with approval. I'd have to go back and check, but I believe the word was "awesome" :)
I found it odd that the Rosetta Stone was included among the list of stones. Are there legends about the stone? I thought it was just the one in the British Museum. Absolutely loved the "Hey" "Hey" between the stone and grail.
Also surprised by the "Bugger Off". Isn't that rather obscene in the UK? I know the intent to keep the comics as all age friendly as the cartoon has slipped a bit. (Strangely the hand being cut off flew by me (no pun intended). Dingo's mother's death shocked me.) But a substitution phrase would be easier that replacing events. (Of course I am blanking on such a phrase at the moment...unless Sod Off is a smidge more polite. Drop Dead doen't sound particularly British.)
Loved the Timedancer part. Had you always intended to start Time Dancer so soon? Had the cartoon continued on air, would Brooklyn have gone and returned season 3 or did it come sooner in response to the new medium. In general did any events move up for the comics?
I know I am in a minority, but I didn't love the art at the end. It's probably just a question of personal taste. The line was more detailed, but the distortions less to my taste. I've heard some say it looked a little more anime looking, and that only sometimes appeals to me.
The relationship between Gilcomgain and the king was wonderfully creepy.
I would have thought Bodhe to be older than Gilcomgain.
Odd.. in the Gargoyles universe it seems sparing a child's life comes back to haunt you. Bodhe's father did it, Macbeth did it, death, war and heartbreak follow.
As whenever we go back in time in these stories, there is a bittersweetness to it. Most, and most probably all, of the gargoyles we meet will be murdered in the next few years. Especially when we see child gargoyles. (I think, though not prominant, one of the gargoyles we saw smashed was a child.)
"Call me Gnash" :)
(I don't remember knowing that was coming, but I may just have missed it.)
Already mentioned, the murder of Dingo's mother shocked me. As did Tasha's suicide earlier, (though I could see how that might have been finageled into the cartoon). Similarly, when I read over the begining of the trade I realized that we had briefly met Tasha and the others as humans. Even in that little bit it made it all the more poignant. A little thing I noted aside from all the big things others have already noted was how the aligator thug was instinctively hugging and holding the little girl to comfort her. Not just the guy with a gun we met before.
I'm a little tight for time, so I'll just say I really enjoyed it and I felt it was very successful in setting up a new series. Yes it is connected, but in the back of my mind I was expecting it to just be an extension of Gargoyles- a way to see more of that universe and extend the stories we were seeing. Instead this is its own story, in that universe, but its own.
Rosetta Stone is what it is.
Same with "Bugger Off". Perhaps because my primary audience is in the U.S. it just doesn't feel as dirty as it is.
The start and finish of TimeDancer was always supposed to occur in Season Three of Gargoyles. The forty years in between was always a spin-off idea.
I'm glad that in general you liked the stuff!
Now that "Clan-Building" and "Bad Guys: Redemption" have been completed, and while we pause for a while (hoping that you and SLG will get to do further "Gargoyles" stories together), I thought I'd look over the Master Plan document you shared with us over ten years ago, and see how that was fulfilled in the eighteen chapters.
First, the spin-offs. "Bad Guys" obviously was represented here, with the six-chapter origin story for the Redemption Squad. Also, "Pendragon" and "TimeDancer" both found their way into "Clan-Building", "Pendragon" with the Stone of Destiny story in #7 to #9 (you even mentioned the Stone of Destiny story in the "Pendragon" section) and "TimeDancer" in #10 to #12, where we saw the beginning of Brooklyn's TimeDancing, his first adventure with Mary and Finella, and the end with his return to New York with his new family.
We also got a taste of "The New Olympians" with Terry Chung's cameos, and maybe even a trace of "Gargoyles 2198" when Peredur mentioned that Arthur wasn't expected to awaken for another two hundred years (Britain and the rest of the planet would definitely be in an hour of need then - definitely shades of "Camelot 3000"). Nothing directly from "Dark Ages", however (Brooklyn's adventure in 997 comes close, but it takes place three years after the Wyvern Massacre that would presumably have formed the series finale) - though we know that you planned to do a story about that next.
Now I'll turn to your list of the planned elements for "Gargoyles"'s third season from the same document.
The Quarryman problem: I would have liked to see a bit more of that (to serve as an antidote to the "Goliath Chronicles" depiction of the Quarrymen), but I enjoyed what we saw. Castaway in Invitation Only" and "Estranged" showed himself to be shrewd and prudent as well as vengeful; I liked the details of his forbidding the Quarrymen to carry hammers on Halloween patrol (in case they mistake costumed trick-or-treaters for gargoyles) and the television commercial that Robyn and Jason see making the Quarrymen seem more like a charitable organization to help people in need than like a hate group.
Xanatos' conversion: And, of course, we saw that he didn't change that much; he's as much a trickster as ever, even ready to, after stealing the Stone of Destiny for the Illuminati, give them another duplicate and keep the original for himself. Life with him is certainly going to be interesting for the clan.
Broadway and Angela's relationship: Not much of this (beyond the library scene), but we clearly see that they're a couple.
Goliath and Elisa's relationship: Definitely there, with the Double Date story and their reconciliation (especially the big moment in "The Rock" when they get back together).
The four Tricksters and Alexander: One of the few threads from your list that didn't get in, but there's always next arc.
The Illuminati: And how! We learn more about the Society, including its internal structure (I'm still delighted with the revelation of exactly how many membership slots there are), and several new members (new in the sense of being "new characters"): Quincy Hemings, Shari, and Falstaff, not to mention our look at Peredur, Duval, and Blanchefleur at the top. We also learn that Thailog's joined the Society (that was one of the biggest surprises in the comic for me), and Fiona Canmore's a member as well. And we get a hint, in the scene between Peredur and the Stone of Destiny in Carbonek, of what the Illuminati's goal is (or at least, what Peredur's goal for the Illuminati is). Not to mention we see more of their shrewdness, with Hacker presenting a different story about the Illuminati's intentions towards the gargoyles to Matt, Xanatos, and Castaway separately.
The Ultra-Pack: We haven't seen them yet, either, but I've no doubt that the big fight with Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf in Times Square is going to encourage the Pack to upgrade again. And after reading "Bad Guys", I have a strong suspicion who the new member will be.
Coldsteel and Coyote: We saw their team-up in the Stone of Destiny story (another of the big surprises was Xanatos using the Coyote Diamond to improve Coyote 5.0 - even after seeing how you keep on bringing back elements from earlier episodes and expanding on them, I hadn't foreseen that).
The Clones: And we saw much of them, as well. I think that almost everyone expected to see Thailog seek to recover the Clones - but we then had the treat of that adventure providing character development for Delilah (who became an especially appealing character in "Bash") and Brentwood.
So we got quite a lot of the MasterPlan in those eighteen chapters. And I hope, someday, we'll see even more of it.
It is almost amazing to me how... consistent the vision of the series has stayed over the years. I don't know if that's me being stubborn or me knowing a good thing when I stumble upon it or what, but although I'm constantly adding to the pre-canon in my head, most of the stuff I came up with as far back as 1994 is still valid.