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An additional little thought, inspired by your comparing Coldstone to the Frankenstein monster. As somebody who's read the original book by Mary Shelley, and quite liked it, I feel that while Coldstone certainly has a strong echo of the monster in him, as you've pointed out, I feel that Goliath does as well, although more in a contrast than in a similarity.
Like the monster (as portrayed by Mary Shelley in her book; alas for the way that Hollywood weakened the character by turning him into a mute, shuffling brute), Goliath is a noble being who appears threatening towards humans and is shunned and feared by so many humans whom he seeks to help. Also like the monster, Goliath is a thoughtful and eloquent being, and well-read with a taste for the classics (the Frankenstein monster reads Plutarch's Lives and Milton's "Paradise Lost", while Goliath reads Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky). The big difference is that the Frankenstein monster is all alone, with nobody to befriend him, and becomes embittered towards humanity thus, while Goliath has the clan and Elisa, which undoubtedly helps him. They're almost foils, in a sense. (Of course, Goliath also isn't an artificial creation, either, as the monster was). Just a little thought that had occurred to me.
I like that analysis. Very sweet.
By the way, it always blew me away that the VERY FIRST BOOK the Monster ever read in "FRANKENSTEIN" was Milton's Paradise Lost. I hadn't read FRANKENSTEIN until college, and also not until after I had read Paradise Lost. (Of course, I knew the basics of both stories long before I actually read the books.)
I couldn't imagine having to teach myself to read with PARADISE LOST. Not exactly FUN WITH DICK AND JANE or Doctor Seuss, you know?
About what time did Oberon and Titania get married? Was Shakespeare corect about them being a wedded couple during the time of Theseus?
Ask me again some other time, I'm currently in a re-think on Midsummer. I'm not sure how it's gonna come out.
My brother asked me this ages ago and I didn't have the answer at the time, so maybe you could help me.
If, before 1995 (when Demona got the ability to turn to human), a hunter or someone else, shattered Demona during the day, what would happen? Would she crumble to dust and die or what?
It never happened. It's moot. You're looking to establish parameters to the Macbeth/Demona spell by creating non-existant hypotheticals. To paraphrase Ralph Waldo Emerson, a petty consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Get over it.
What did Artemis in Greek mythology look like? We know Apollo was a guy with flaming hair.
Apollo's a guy with flaming hair? Since when? Not in any depiction I've ever seen.
As for Artemis, I think she was beautiful, athletic, lithe, dark of hair, haughty, virginal, sympathetic but not empathetic, proud, tall, regal, capable of kindness, of love, of regret, afraid of change, loyal, protective, dangerous, with a hell of a temper, intelligent, struggling, untouchable...
Ahhh... So THAT'S why the Miranda episodes of Bonkers were better. Not sucking up here Greg, they were jsut genuinely better for the most part. Thanks for explaining that.
I agree, at least story-wise, conceptually better for sure.
Hmm, now that I think of it, I'm not even certain if 'revelatory' is a real word...
Anyway on the Theseus business, something a bit less... deep: In "A Midsummer's Night Dream" it is said that Titania had an... affair (ahem) with Theseus - would you say that's true in the Gargoyles Universe?
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Written by Marty Isenberg & Robert N. Skir
I just watched "Legion" again. Time to Ramble.
From the memo I posted earlier this week, you'll see that the never used on screen names of Othello, Desdemona and Iago were my idea. But I've always wondered if that's the case. The outline that Marty and Bob wrote immediately prior to that memo had all the Othello elements very, very present in the story. All they didn't do was NAME the characters. I always wondered whether they and/or Michael had the Othello story specifically in mind, consciously or un-, and I just capitalized on it.
The Goldencup Bakery Building, which semi-secretly houses a defense department hi-tech research and development installation is modeled after the Silver Cup Bakery Building -- which actually exists in Brooklyn (as I recall). That Building was trashed in the original HIGHLANDER movie in the final battle between Connor and the Kragen (who was played by a pretty damned horrific Clancy Brown). Small world.
I was always worried that the whole Othello, Desdemona, Iago, Cassio (whoops, I mean Goliath) backstory was a bit vague in this episode. Did anyone have problems getting it?
I don't think I'd like to be one of those Goldencup Guards. Coldstone punches one of them out. That's gotta hoit. He just seems fairly unstoppable in that Xanatos-program controlled sequence. I like how that plays.
Matt says to Elisa: "You never let me drive." My wife's reaction: "Was that in homage to me?" My wife, you see, almost always drives when we're together. She gets carsick when anyone else drives. And I don't much care.
Speaking of Matt, we've got that line about him spending six months reading RECAP manuals to justify why a normal detective would be in charge of RECAP in the first place. Just trying to avoid either adding a superfluous character and/or making the situation seem artificial.
Another appearance of the Scarab Corp. Logo, even though Scarab is never mentioned by name. Oh, well...
Coldstone flees the Goldencup. Goliath and Lex pursue, and Coldstone attacks them. Then he immediately stops, when he sees it's Goliath. The problem I always had with that scene is that the lighting made it obvious that it was Goliath from moment one. (Not just to us, but to Coldstone.) If Goliath had been in shadows, it would have played better.
Minutes later Lex asks Goliath if it's wise to take Coldstone into their home: "He hasn't always been your friend." This was, theoretically, a reference not simply to the most recent attack, nor even only to the events of "Reawakening", but also a reference to the pre-Massacre backstory of the actually non-existent love triangle (or square or pentagram if you include Demona) that caused Goliath and Othello to fight way back when. Lex remembers those days too. Othello was always a bit of a hot-head.
I love Goliath's response: "Without trust there can be no clan." And I love that this is part of a Lex/Goliath exchange. It fits in perfectly with the message they taught each other in "Thrill of the Hunt". Gotta take some chances on occasion. Or else you'll always be alone. It's an anti-Demona mentality. Or rather a mentality that is strikingly un-Demona-esque.
From the moment Coldstone premiered in "Reawakening" I knew (that if we survived to a second season) we'd discover that he was created from three Gargoyles. Tried to work that conceptually into the design more, but we never quite achieved it. So basically that becomes something that the audience has to take on trust.
Which brings me to the title "Legion". It's a one-word title which usually is a tip-off that it's one of mine. I know it's a biblical reference. Some possessed guy with a demon/devil inside who goes by the name "Legion". But that's not actually where I got it. When I was a kid, I saw this tv movie based on Mary Shelley's FRANKENSTEIN. It starred Michael Sarazan or Chris Sarandon. (I always used to mix those two guys up.) It was trying to present a more realistic believable version of the Frankenstein story. I was pretty young. And I don't remember too much about it. I do remember that I was supposed to be asleep -- past my bedtime in the days before my parents gave up and I began going to bed long after they were asleep. But instead of being asleep, I was watching it, in the dark, with the volume turned as far down as possible, me sitting right by the set, so I could flip it off if I heard my parents' door opening. (This was long before remote controls were common.) Anyway, the one scene that I really remember is a scene where they put the Monster under hypnosis. The voices of all the people who "donated" body parts begin to speak. And one of them quotes the "Legion" thing from the bible. But I didn't know that. That is I didn't know back then that he was quoting anyone or anything. It just seemed like a very powerful, poetic and humanly true statement. So it wasn't until college that I read that passage in the bible and realized where it was from. Can anyone cite the actual quote? I can't remember where exactly it's from, and I don't feel like searching right now.
Anyway, all this is relevant because Coldstone was ALWAYS our Frankenstein character from the "IT'S ALIVE!" moment to the "Legion" stuff here.
Coldstone calls Hudson "Mentor". That's a "name" I've been long considering for Hudson's "designation" in the DARK AGES prequel spin-off.
Coldstone shoots Goliath at point blank range. Goliath gets up unharmed. A far cry from what happened to G in "Long Way to Morning." Now in the outline and script, it says that Coldstone uses his "concussion cannon" as opposed to his laser cannon. But nothing in the as-aired episode makes that distinction. And so it just looks irresponsible to me. Like suddenly we're saying violence has no repercussions. Did that bother anyone else?
I love the dark comedy of Coldstone going bonkers at Ellis Island. Fighting with himself. I think Michael Dorn did a terrific job playing all four aspects of CS's personality. Which of you figured out what when? I'd like to know.
The Trio has the Recap visor. Now all they have to do is find Goliath, Hudson and Coldstone. How will they do that? "Three guesses?" A very elegant way to explain how in a huge city, they're able to locate three gargoyles.
Kenner's Coldstone toy is a lot of fun. With it's window into Coldstone's soul. And the spinner that allows any of the four personas to take over at random.
Xanatos doesn't even appear until the VERY END of Act Two. And it's not even really Xanatos, just a program designed by him. Normally, I'd say that wasn't playing fair. But I feel like his presence was obvious all-along. (And did David personally design that program. Or did he just put his stamp on it, management-style?)
There's a moment when Goliath, thrilled to see his rookery sister again, hugs Desdemona. She is immediately annoyed, because she knows that hug is prone to misinterpretation. It's a nice little touch in the animation.
I always wondered what if anything Demona thought about that ancient conflict way back when. Was Iago playing her as well? Trying to make her jealous of Desdemona? I think maybe he did try. But wouldn't it be cool if she didn't credit it for a second. If she just knew intuitively that Desdemona didn't present any threat at all to her relationship with G? Because, I feel the opposite is true. That Demona knew intuitively that Elisa DID present a threat. Say what you want for Demona, but her subconscious knows her man.
I love that moment where BOTH Iago and Xanatos are whispering in Othello's ears. Poor slob never stood a chance.
We've got a nice little Xanatos tag in this one too. Certainly not a doozy as in "Leader" or "Metamorphosis", but it's got a nice little kick to it, I think. And that's THREE episodes in a row. X had been busy.
And then I love the last beat back at the clock tower. Goliath has confiscated Coldstone's body, to keep it safe and "among friends" should he/she ever wake up again. I wanted to keep it in the corner from that point until "High Noon". Always present and visible. We didn't for two reasons. First, we figured it would be a bit confusing. The Batcave can get away with the giant penny and other souvenirs from Batman's cases, because there ARE multiple souvenirs. But just having one immobile gargoyle in the background, as cool and creepy as that is, would be horribly distracting for any audience member who missed this one particular episode. And second, we had our tier system. What if "Legion" wasn't ready as scheduled. We couldn't have Coldstone sitting around the clock tower in later episodes that we'd be forced to air first. Talk about disconcerting. So we invented a back room. Where Coldstone, the Grimorum, the Gate and eventually the eye could be stored.
Comments welcome, as usual...
I read your ramble to Aris on Theseus this morning, and quite enjoyed it. One part of it that I found interesting was your bit about how Theseus, in his team-ups with Hercules, would help keep his tendency to go berserk in check - the reason why I found that interesting was because I noticed that you included that bit in your "Grim Avenger" story for Disney's Hercules, where Theseus gets Hercules to calm down after he's going full-vengeance after the Minotaur.
Yeah. Though of course, that was a reversal on the very un-Theseus-esque way we were playing the Grim Avenger earlier in the story.
Thank You for answering my New Olympian questions. I it appreciated a great deal.
Since you are a Shakespeare fan I was wondering if you had seen either of the following Shakespeare related plays
1) "Rosencrantz and Guilderstern are Dead" by Tom Stoppard
2) "Goodnight Desdemona (Good Morning Juliet)" by Ann-Marie MacDonald
If you have seen either play, what did you think of them?
Thankyou very much,
I've seen Stoppard's play. Not MacDonald's.
I love the Stoppard play. I particularly love the movie he wrote and directed based on that play. It's an amazing piece of work. I'm a HUGE Stoppard fan. Though I haven't seen close to everything he's done. I think both ARCADIA and SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE are completely ****ing brilliant.
I was thinking today about the Quarrymen and the Ku Klux Klan. One of my favorite quotes in "The Journey" was Goliath's "Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood".
We were discussing the Klan in US History today and I got really worked up and went into a rant about how if the Klan are a bunch of cowards who are too afraid to show their faces. I'm half Jewish so I take everything the Klan does personally (I would even if not). And then I thought about Goliath's quote, and it really spoke to me in that scene. It was brilliant. I applaud you for it.
Did you have these sentiments in mind when you wrote "The Journey"?