Battle Beast writes...

Re: "Cloud Fathers"

Wile E. 4.0??? LOL

Xanatos: "It's so hard to program good help these days." LOL

Seriously, There is a great deal of great writing in this episode. The quotes you pointed out are just some great examples of how great the writers on this series were.

1) Did you write lines like those, "The deep end," "Hard to program good help..." or was that purly the writers?

Peter V. Carlos: "Cloud Fathers" deals with a serious topic. I know someone like Peter who hasn't spoken to a relative for a while. I know what it does to people, so I know what Peter might have been going through.

The Pool: I know it was a swimming pool right off the bat. My friends and I watched "Gargs" at 4:30 (we did it almost every weekday together) and I remember saying to my friends, "Man, that Skiff goes everywhere! Will it show up in my bathtub?"

I actually hated this episode the first few tiems I saw it. My friend (who i watched the show with) is Native, from New Mexico (He moved to Canada) and he thought the episode mocked native culture. Well we were wrong, and we actually like the episode a whole lot more now.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Cloud Fathers" ramble, Greg!

I will confess that I can't remember from my first-time viewing whether I was surprised or not by the revelation at the end that Carlos Maza had passed on. However, I do find myself wondering, whenever I watch it on tape now, whenever either Elisa or Beth asks Peter if he wants to "go visit grandfather" while he's in town, how many first-time viewers did suspect that Carlos was dead, and how many were surprised.

Arizona, incidentally, now has a little more personal significance to me than it did when the episode first aired; my mother and stepfather moved there a few years ago (they live in the Phoenix area). They've sometimes mentioned Flagstaff in conversations with me, but haven't as yet mentioned anything about sand-carvings of Coyote or Kachina dancers. :)

Xanatos's "cliched villainy" line is a particular favorite of mine; only Xanatos would make such a remark! Though the bit where he admits that he has no desire to kill Goliath or any of the other gargoyles - this is just a necessary part of his coyote-trap - definitely stands out to me as well. You don't see the main antagonist saying that to the hero too often in an animated adventure series!

I liked the touch of the Cauldron of Life being incorporated into Coyote 4.0. (As I mentioned once in chat, it reminds me a bit of the scene in "Camelot 3000" where Mordred incorporates the Holy Grail into his armor.) The mention of the iron obviously was a foreshadowing of what was coming in the very next episode. (Was Xanatos's follow-up remark of "Ironic" intended as a pun, by the way?)

I also got a kick out of the mild confusion over "Which Coyote are we talking about here?" - the best part of all being when Coyote the Trickster threatens to sue Xanatos for trademark infringement. (And Xanatos's response that he's a "trickster at heart" rings true to me - the man's living proof that you don't have to be a Child of Oberon to be a trickster. He fulfills the archetype just as surely as Puck, Raven, and the rest do.)

I hadn't noticed the similarity of the Coyote robot to Wile E. Coyote until you mentioned it here at "Ask Greg" (not in this ramble, but in earlier answers to questions), but I certainly see it now. (Though, judging from the name of a certain merchant in "Vendettas", Coyote the robot isn't the only "Gargoyles" character to be influenced by Wile E. Coyote!)

So the multiple trickster story was what you'd originally planned for the Puck-and-Alex story before you decided to merge it with the Cold Trio for "Possession"?

Thanks for another enjoyable ramble, Greg.

Heather writes...

I not asking a question. I'am just writing to rave about the Gargoyles season one dvd. I loved it. Ever since I was able to say the word Gargoyles I have watched the show religiously. I was so excited to see the first season I screamed in joy when I saw it on the shelf at the store. I have really high hopes that the second and third season will come out on dvd soon. I really hope so. Cause that would be so cool!

Mercy writes...

I have no questions, just writing my review and support for the Gargoyles DVD.

I love it so much. I watched it all the minute I ripped it out of the Christmas wrapping!It brought back so many memories! I was fourteen when the show aired and watching it all over again has made me more aware of storylines I didn't pay attention to before. Really, no other animated series has ever topped Gargoyles.
I especially love the commentaries and wished there had been more, but I'm sure that's simply asking too much. I love all the inside information and spoilers. I especially enjoyed the warmth and humor through out the commentaries.
I would like to put in my part in saying that I desperately, desperately want to see Gargoyles Season II come out and soon. I may be a poor college student but I would happily spend my financial aid money to buy season two instead of textbooks!

On another note, I want to thank you Greg Weisman for adding Shakespeare into the series. It inspired me to read Shakespeare, love Shakespeare and now I'm on my last year of college hoping to one day soon, teach Shakespeare.

N. Shaffer writes...

This is just a brief post to let everyone (especially the folks at Disney) know how wonderful the first season of Gargoyles DVD set is. I got it for Christmas and have watched it at least three times since then, hooking a new generation of kids too young to have seen the show during its original airing. I'm particularly glad the decision was made to keep "Deadly Force" in the set, instead of removing it entirely for its 'excessive violence'. That episode truly highlights the danger of guns, and I was very proud that my young nieces and nephews were able to grasp that concept immediately. I am waiting with impatience for the release of seasons two and three; they definitely have one sale already in the bag. Thank you.

Brian writes...

It's funny how you would bring up "Ask Greg" in the commentary on the fifth episode of the five-part pilot. You've asked us to review the DVD so I'm going to give mine. I'll try to touch base with the same elements I have reviewed at Amazon.com, and if I don't get to them all, oh well. I'm only human.

Anyway...

First all, I have to say I like how much better it looks compared to when it was aired on television. I know, duh everything looks better on DVD than it does on television. But being able to see it in it's original, unedited form. I haven't seen it like that for a very long time. That is definately a plus.

I put the disc in, skip the introductory crud, and the first thing I see is the animated menu. I don't know how many times I just let it run through, I mean it is that good. I have never seen anything like it. Now getting back to the introductory crud, Power Rangers? How the hell did Disney ever have anything to do with Power Rangers? Ok, back on topic...

I start the whole thing through beginning with the five-part pilot. I like having all the key elements to the story unlike what The Heroes Awaken VHS that I got for Christmas nine years ago lacks. Back then I found that to be a disappointment. Another great disappointment that has been taken care of very well is Deadly Force. Not only is it there, but Elisa is lying in the pool of blood on the kitchen floor too. Not a single element has been booted out, and we can thank Disney for finally righting this wrong. If you ask me, justice has finally been served.

The audio commentary on the five-part pilot, though identified as spoilerish by a few others that have viewed it, tells of how this great idea came to pass and how the five-part pilot sets the stage for the upcoming events through the second season. I thought it was well done. Hearing the comment about the show pitch and seeing the tape that pulled through definately puts this rule of thumb into perspective - Don't you dare quit. Quitters only gain nothing.

Now for the part that says, "Where's the beef?" Viewing the part on the Gathering is the closest I've been to one. And according to a comment I have found here somewhere about costing $800 just for the trip, it's the closest I'm probably ever going to get. I'm like, dude, it costs that much $$ just to get there? As if I wasn't furious enough that I've never been to one. No plan D here. I'll have become a gargoyle long before I have the dough to cover all those expenses. Since all I have for this is beef I think I'll move on.

I would like to see the second season come out, but I feel there are a few things about it that need to be addressed. Compared to the first season, which has 13 episodes, the second season has a long string of 51. In order to put this on DVD, there are two possible outcomes. We would either find it on a set of four discs, or on a set of two double-sided discs. I think the double-sided ones would be better because it would fit in a regular case instead of a big monstrosity. Either way, it'll be a bit pricey but worth it. So a word to the wise - now is the time to start saving up for it.

Tom Lahr writes...

Hello. I wasn't sure where to put this so I decided to submit it this way. I heard that in Febuary talks will be held to decide if Gargoyles season 2 and onwards should be put on DVD, and that people should write brief reviews of the show that could be shown to execs and such to show why we need season 2 on DVD. I should probally start with the fact that I didn't watch the original broadcasts. For some reason I just "missed" the show. However I had seen a few episodes prior to my DVD purchase due to the fact that Disney still shows Gargoyles every so often. I had high expectations when I bought the DVD, due to the fact that Gargoyles has a HUGE fanbase, just like Family Guy, one of my other favorite animated shows. Let me tell you, the DVDs didn't dissapoint. I loved everything about the show, from the beautiful choice of colors used to animate night in Manhattan to the brilliant script and acting. The only thing I would want different in the 2nd season boxset is MORE COMMENTARY! I found the commentary on the first 5 episodes facinating, and if the 2nd season had commentary on (hopefully most of) the episodes I would be estatic! I don't want to ramble any further, but all I can say is that I want more! I never got the chance to see how the series progresses, and a Season 2 DVD release would finally let me see how the series plays out.

Kelsi Parker writes...

I was lucky enough to recieve the Gargoyles Season one DVD for Christmas, and reaffirmed my love of the show. I think I appreciate it now more than ever, since I've read some Shakespeare and no longer rely on Disney Adventures for fandom news. Through various internet linkages, I discovered your site, and think it's amazingly wonderful that you're still feeding our obsession.

Watching the show as a kid, I saw a cool story, interesting imagery, and something worth running to the television for when it came on. Watching as an adult, I still see the cool story and amazing visuals, but also the tiny details, little tidbits that are easily overlooked in a casual viewing. I would like to add my voice to those asking to see the further seasons released on DVD, as the first has only whet my appetite for more.

Jay R Kreige writes...

Gargoyles is the best show ever made. Thank you Mr. Weisman, the cast and crew, and especially Disney for taking a chance and scoring big with myself, and all those who still love the show, and those who have just been distracted, thank you.

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Bushido" ramble, Greg!

I hadn't realized the "Awakening" parallel (at least, not the parallel with the 994 portion of "Awakening") until you brought it up (not in this ramble, actually, but in an earlier reply here at "Ask Greg"), but it certainly works for me. And I agree that Yama, fortunately for the gargs, had held on to more of his courage and understanding of the "gargoyle way" than Demona had (I especially liked the scene where he discovers to his disgust that Taro had been lying about the first visitors to the theme park being a group of schoolchildren who wished to learn bushido - the fact that he had believed that those would be the first visitors illustrates his good intentions there).

The Ishimura gargoyles remind me a little of the tengu, a race of winged beings in Japanese legend who sometimes taught humans bushido (continuing the concept that you'd used in the Avalon World Tour of tying gargoyles in with other legends, as I mentioned before).

I agree with you that Taro isn't up to Xanatos's level. For one thing, though Xanatos might get defeated, he always did so in a way that essentially preserved his dignity; I simply cannot imagine him winding up dangling from a gigantic animatronic gargoyle in front of a crowd of reporters. (For that matter, I also can't help wondering why Taro would have wanted to have the reporters show up at dawn rather than dusk to get their first glimpse of the gargoyles; if I wanted to introduce people to gargoyles in an impressive way, I'd want it to be when they were bursting out of their stone shells in the evening. That'd be much more powerful and dramatic.)

Yama's concerns about gargoyle secrecy certainly worked for me, and although he went about solving the problem in the wrong way, I can certainly agree with him about the secrecy having its drawbacks. It does strike me that part of the reason why humans fear gargoyles is because about all that they usually see of them is their charging about growling, with eyes glowing, in battle-fury - a condition that certainly makes it easier to jump to the wrong conclusion about them. Would humans be so ready to make that mistake if they got to see more of the gargoyles when they weren't simply fighting? Also, there's the danger that if you just keep secret, somebody else might reveal you to the world under less favorable circumstances than the ones that you'd have chosen (such as claiming on a news broadcast that you blew up a police station in New York). It does make one wonder whether the gargoyles have been a little too passive in working for peace with humans, just sitting around and hoping that the humans will learn to accept them on their own, rather than actively working towards it.

And I got a big kick out of the metareferencing in Elisa's "TV stars" line, and Goliath's horrified cry of "No!" (Goliath's line was made all the funnier, for me, by Keith David's reading of it - making it sound as if Goliath truly considered such a prospect a fate worse than death!)

Perhaps one of the most important aspects of "Bushido" is that it shows a community where humans and gargoyles live together harmoniously, showing that Goliath's belief that such a thing is possible is indeed accurate. (We saw a bit of that on Avalon, but that was an unusual case - humans raising young gargoyles as if they were adopted children. This is a more "conventional" community.) Hope is indeed possible.

Again, thank you for the ramble.