Ray Kremer (repost by Aris) writes...

I'm writing this after reading your review of Enter MacBeth. I guess I don't have such a discerning eye, I don't remember noticing the animation. I did wonder how the fire spread so quickly in that stone castle, but some liberties can be allowed, I guess.

Continuity? Stuff's great. Elisa on crutches at the start - beautiful touch. Absolutely beautiful. The previously on Gargoyles clips also helped to reinforce the idea that there was something greater here than just episodic television. I didn't mind the early reruns either. Even though I was excited about a cartoon with Star Trek actors in it, when premier week came I forgot all about it until Friday. Just in time for the "surprise" ending that Demona and Xanatos were both bad guys. Oh well, you win some...

MacBeth. Fun guy. John Rhys-Davies has one of those marvelous voices. But I never gave him much thought until City of Stone. "You mean, MacBeth is the ACTUAL MacBeth? Cool!!!" That's gotta be one of the best surprise revelations in a cartoon show ever.

Hmmm, should there be a question here? Okay, how about this. Did you know our man David Xanatos made the Hall of Evil Geniuses? Yep, some guy's webpage roots for evil, and David's on it:
http://home1.gte.net/locke/genius.html

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

DEADLY FORCE

When I first saw this, I missed the first few minutes (it was on early in the morning where I lived and I accidentally overslept). I came in when Broadway was munching the popcorn. Still, when I did see the first few moments, Owen's actions didn't surprise me--I was already impressed enough with him (I had already seen his work in ENTER MACBETH). Dracon did make for an interesting addition to the cast of villains here. Not of the same caliber as Xanatos and Demona, sure, but in his own right he's pretty good.
Now, as for the shooting itself...how do I say this? I was surprised and I wasn't. Let me put it this way--I wasn't surprised that the show would have someone actually getting shot and I figured that Elisa would get shot the instant I saw Broadway pick up the gun. What DID surprise me was how close to death Elisa came. Not to mention the final image of Act I. Then of course there's the end of Act II where Elisa actually flat-lines. You guys always could do shocking cliff-hangers. Yeah, so you couldn't have Elisa die and make it real. She was the secondary lead. At least you did have her flat-line.
How Broadway deals with it is very well done. This is the ep that always impresses me about him. You're right, his rage here is indeed awe-inspiring. Everytime I see the way he handles Glasses I wince in sympathy. I'd hate to have him mad at me.
Him or Goliath. This is another thing I like about this series--the main hero has come close to killing someone in the name of vengence several times already. I like this edge--I like it that the heroes in this show are presented with very real flaws. And yeah, his unbeknownst-to-him-love for Elisa is pretty well shown here. I especially like the last moment the two of them have together.
Back on Broadway, compliments on pulling him out of the "eating machine" pidgeon hole. So many shows just designate a character as that and leave him there. Kudos for giving him something more.
Yeah, about the second or third time I saw this, I noticed it was Matt driving Chavez's car. That always brought a grin to my face the way you guys thougth ahead like that.
One of my favorite parts comes when Owen complains about Goliath destroying Xanatos's guns, and Goliath comments with a veiled threat; "I'll be happy to discuss the matter with him." Do you think he also destroyed those guns to get back at Xanatos? Not as a primary reason, but just as sort of a "bonus."

I always enjoy watching this episode for these little touches.

Ambrosia (repost by Aris) writes...

Don?t worry about coming off as arrogant, Greg. I love hearing your take on the episodes and I look forward to reading them. I always learn so much? Here?s my responses:

Kid movies and, yes, even Disney movies are obviously getting more and more violent. In 1936, the men working on Snow White said that it was too violent for them to take their kids to see. This summer, Clayton fell out of a really big tree with a vine wrapped around his neck and hung himself. A couple years ago, Frollo, obsessed with Gypsy Esmeralda, tried to burn her at the stake. Both of these things were violence and drama for their own sake. Deadly Force, as you said, was making a *statement*. A statement that REALLY needs to be heard these days. It?s easy to look at it superficially and go, ?Nope. Guns, blood. Can?t show that on television.? I?m upset that Toon Disney didn?t look closer.

About Elisa almost dying: I believe this is pretty close to what Doctor Sato said, ?The bullet entered high in the chest, ricocheted off the collarbone, nicked the heart muscle and passed through the right lung. I?ve removed it from the base of the spine.? Yeah. She?s damn lucky to be alive.

I liked what you said about time travel. You can?t change the past. I?d never thought about it farther than that that was the rules of the Phoenix Gate: time corrects itself. Like a river. But it?s true with or without the Gate. You CAN?T change the past.

Matt, as I recall, was also camioed in Her Brother?s Keeper. In his underwear. Briefs. Purple.

I work in a theater. We never keep bagged popcorn for more than overnight.

Tana (repost by Aris) writes...

Greg,

Read your "Temptation" Ramble, and there were a few things that I would love to point out about that episode.
First off: I loved the leather jacket and HOW brooklyn folded his wings under his arms. He really did look good in that episode. ^_^

Second: The bike. It was a cool bike! BUT, the bikers when they see it say: "Cool Hog." Now, okay people who don't know much about motorcycles would refer to any bike as a hog, but these Biker's would know better. A Hog is a Harley Davidson...and Lex's creation looked nothing like a Harley. I dunno if that was you, or somebody else. But oh well, it was still a cool bike.

Third: The spell. Now Elisa says: "I want you to act, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, as if you weren't under a spell." Wouldn't that in sense nullify some future spells on the big guy? I mean sure, Puck's spell worked well, cause he still ACTED like he wasn't under a spell. Were you maybe planning on keeping with this for future continuity?

oh, and I LOVE your little analizations (sp?) of the episodes. It really lets us get more into your head, and into the world of the Gargoyles.

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

TEMPTATION

While this isn't the ep that cemented Brooklyn in my head as "Favorite Character," I have to admit he is GREAT in it.
I still love Lexington's remark about building a horse from spare parts.
Demona's tour of the city--Yeah, the DEAD BODY surprised me too. Very powerful, very good, as were Demona's other two "examples" of humanity. Bennett and Sirtis did WONDERFUL jobs with their voice acting here.
As for the bikers not noticing Brooklyn, yeah everybody notices that. I just try to ignore it and that seems to work. If nothing else, most of the bikers in that scene WERE wearing sunglasses at night (as someone else already pointed out). Come to think of it, some of them weren't even wearing helmets....;-)
Elisa's finger--great, now that you've mentioned it, *I'LL* probably look for it and not be able to see anything else in the scene.
I was surprised to hear that Brooklyn's description of the Cloisters was taken by some folks as "proof" that gargoyles were not native to this planet. Anyone who saw the first two episodes should have understood what Brooklyn meant. Come to think of it, why WOULD people want the gargoyles to be from another planet?
One of my favorite lines in this episode--Brooklyn: "You hold the book, Demona. But *I* hold the *spell*!" I just LOVE that.
The resolution of the spell may have been a bit of a cheat, but it WAS a creative and original solution to the problem. So, you guys still get some points in that area.
Lex and Brooklyn talking about the motorcycle at the end and Lex's reaction are always enjoyable.
Pointless note: Hudson doesn't speak a single line in this episode. Odd, when I think about it. Still, you do at least SEE him a few times.

Good ep.

Entity (repost by Aris) writes...

This is (also) in response to Exolexy's commentary on the post-Avalon episodes. First and foremost, while I do not agree with Exolexy, I do not think it in good taste to make him an anti-fan; an object at which to toss glares as we hang on your arms.

With that said, I would like to say that the post-Avalon episodes had a very jarring effect on me, I believe similar to the one it had on Exolexy. I simply found things to be a bit overwhelming. "The Mirror" had been an early taste, but after "Avalon" things just skyrocketed.

Gargoyles had never struck me as that thick of a fantasy series before that point. My interpretation had been that the gargoyles were the sole fantasy elements, and that that was the premise: Fantasy creatures in a real world. But then the viel was brought back... and at first I didn't like it.

I was a sci-fi fan. Fantasy wasn't my thing. I couldn't grasp beings like Oberon, as it appears Exolexy wasn't able to. My science-fiction conditioned mind kept trying to compare him to Star Trek's "Q", like two puzzle pieces that wouldn't go together. 'If he's onmipotent, why isn't he noncorporeal?' I said. 'Omnipotence demands you be noncorporeal!'

After a while, though, I began to thaw. Then I began to re-watch. And with each re-viewing I came to appreciate the rich mythological and fantasy elements more. Now I couldn't imagine a Gargoyles without all of that.

In short, I owe my appreciation for the fantasy genre to Gargoyles. It was responsible for 'bridging' me over.

Aris Katsaris writes...

After a long delay I am now beginning again to repost much of what had been lost in the crash. Sorry for the delay.

Comment: there were a couple high-tensioned posts of Exolex, Lexy and me which I won't repost - my reason for that is that Exolexy made a comment which seemed to imply to me he wouldn't mind their deletion: if however any of you wants their specific lost comments reposted, just say the word and I'll do so: I'm not exercising censorship, just caution.

Aaron writes...

The caption. Must've been my imagination then. But thank you for the confirmation.

Of course, I goofed up anyway, since the prison is actually *Ryker's* Island, not Riker's Island. Must've been thinking of something else. ;)

Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

Not questions- comments:

I read your Leader of the Pack posting... as usual, I loved it. Thank you again for posting such things.

I think I remember being surprized by "Xanatos" under the helmut. At the time I was still blown away by one of my all time favorite tv lines; "Because Nietzchi is too butch and Kafka reminds me of your friends down there." {AND the close up on enough letters to recognize Sarte!} I know I was shocked to find out the truth. I thought little of Xanatos for going on a revenge binge, but modern tv has lowered my expectations. However I was stunned when Bronx went for "Xanatos' head", just shocked.

Oddly enough I thought the gargoyles flying away was a nice choice. Many other times there has been widespread ignoring of the "glide, not fly" principle. Here they circled around this unusual unexpected heat source. Under normal circumstances there might have been no way to get back in the air. Coming out to a place without sirious updrafts was a choice the gargoyles made because they had to, a ramiphication of Lex's hastiness. Showing them circling, using the fire to get back in the air, was a touoch of realism with interesting implications. Swimming would have taken away the open question whether they all could swim the distance, especially the part of Bronx howling as if he will drown. It would have been a more explicit version of the 'can't just fly' problem, but not an example of the gargoyles clearly using aor currents to glide.

MAybe I'm just rambling- it is late.

One other thought.
Now that the answers are coming in every day, and the recently answered page is actually moving, I find myself afraid I've missed something that came and scrolled off already, but reluctant to search the entire archive. Perhaps another page would be a good idea. A Relatively New Page in which newer messages, irespective of catagory, would sit for a set amount of time. Each message would automatically fall off the list in 30 days or the like. Just a thought.

Demonskrye writes...

Hi Greg,
I'm working on responding to your rambles on the individual episodes while spacing myself enough that you don't have to read a whole slew of them at once. Hopefully, I'll eventually be caught up enough that you'll remember the rambles I'm refering to.
Without further ado...

"The Thrill of the Hunt"

First off, I think the Trio tryptic was a good followup to "Awakening", since it developed the Trio much more fully beyond their comic relief teenager personalities. Though each of them stand alone well enough, they also fit together nicely with an "Innocence Betrayed" theme. Lex believes the TV version of the Pack is the real thing and gets a rude awakening upon actually meeting them. Brooklyn makes an attempt to fit in with modern humanity and is nearly killed. Broadway accepts the media vision of guns and ends up injuring Elisa. The Trio is discovering the modern world and it's not always a pretty picture.

I also appreciated the fact that Lex was right and in spite of the fact that the episode's events seemed to prove him wrong, Goliath acknowledged that Lex was right. Unfortunately, Goliath didn't seem to do much in the way of "seeking out kindred spirits" for the rest of the season. Though unless I remember wrong (which is entirely likely), Brooklyn uses the same term to describe the bikers he approaches in "Temptation". So maybe the task fell to him.

I love continuity. It's one of the reasons I was so addicted to "Gargoyles" when it was still on Disney Afternoon. And I loved seeing ramifications to the characters actions. I can't remember if I had expected Xanatos to be out of jail by this episode, but I know I appreciate that he wasn't.
And on the other end of the spectrum, we have the clashes between Elisa and Goliath over the status of the castle as the gargoyles' home. Kind of a sign of what was to come, slowly setting up the idea that the victory in "Awakening Pt 5" wasn't as final as Goliath would like it to be.
I agree, this was probably Wolf's shining moment. Much like the gargoyles, we weren't sure what he was capable of at this point. He seemed focused, a skilled hunter, and maybe even strong enough to take on Goliath. Later on, he kind of degenerated into more of a bully type; strong and not exactly stupid, but no strategist either. By the time "Vendettas" aired, he just seemed so inept that I could hardly take him seriously.
The Pack hype was fun. I didn't equate it with Power Rangers at the time, but I can see it now. It also adds to the idea of the gargoyles being from a completely different era that Lex would be completely taken in by something any human teenager could easily identify as so much special effects.
If I was going to compare this episode to "Temptations", I'd probably say that Fox is Lex's Demona. As a rule, Lex hates the Pack in general well into season two, but Fox is the one who seems to really get to him. Thinking on her feet, she dupes him into bringing Goliath to meet the Pack. And judging by his face after she stroked his chin, Lex was pretty well under her spell at that point. Having him so enthralled with the pack really sets him up for the fall later on.
Was that A "Beauty and the Beast" nod when the Pack are seeking out Goliath and Lex on a rooful of stone gargoyles? Or just coincidence? That particular film is one of my other great loves and I enjoyed the ocassional reference to it in "Gargoyles", Elisa's Halloween costume being the most obvious.

That should be all for me. Thanks for listening and thanks as always for helping to make such a fine show.