Todd Jensen writes...

Another word about "Gargoyles 2198". I will state here that the part about the series concept that intrigues me the most actually isn't so much the "main plot" (the Space-Spawn occupation, Samson's resistance movement, etc.) or even the general potential for various 22nd century adventures. What makes me most interested in this projected spin-off is that it offers the best hope, of any of the cycles in your Master Plan, of exploring the issue of, what I'll call for lack of a better term, "peacetime" human-gargoyle relations.

What I mean by that is this. It's obvious enough to me that, once humans become aware that gargoyles are an intelligent race, and when they reach the point where they'd be living alongside them with a certain degree of tolerance of their existence (as in, after the UN passes the "Gargoyle Minority Protection Act"), there'd inevitably enough be a lot of interestingly complicated circumstances. Because the big difference between gargoyles and "conventional" minority groups is that gargoyles aren't part of the human race. They're a non-human species with a unique biology and culture. So that would lead to situations between the two races where there would be no real precedence, situations different from those of conventional race relations of the sort that we face today. The gargoyles aren't human, but an involuntarily nocturnal species, and an autonomous one at that, yet living (for the most part) in the middle of human nation-states (and, in at least two cases, major human cities). So there's a definite recipe for complication from the start.

Of course, once the New Olympians reveal themselves to the world, human will get some experience in dealing with a non-human race (well, in this case, partly human). But New Olympus will be easy by comparison, given that it's a sovereign state; dealings with the New Olympians would most likely be a "simple" case of international diplomacy (if international diplomacy with a nation-state populated by centaurs, minotaurs, sphinxes, and other beings from classical mythology). But the gargoyles are actually secretly living amidst humans, with the "biggie" clan (in the sense that it's the one that "Gargoyles" focused on) actually living right in New York. So there'd be a whole can of worms about where gargoyles fit in with human law, human government, and so on. And that could clearly lead to a lot of interesting stories.

It's equally clear that that wouldn't be happening to the gargoyles in the present day, at least for a while (given that nearly everybody still think of them simply as monsters; as I recall you mentioned here, the big problem with Goliath's trial would be simply giving him a trial in the first place); so obviously the necessary setting for such stories would have to be "Gargoyles 2198". Of course, the fact that the Space-Spawn will be conquering the Earth in the first episode would make the issue much more complicated, but I imagine that it'd still be fertile ground for a lot of interesting situations. At any rate, that's probably what intrigues me the most about "Gargoyles 2198". Seeing how humans solve the problem of sharing their planet with a non-human intelligent race living among them.

matt writes...

ok, i know you've said that the English gargs are pretty much limited to what we saw in "MIA", but are there smaller differences in different English gargs. i mean, no two gargoyles ever look totally alike, right? but in a large English garg clan with only a few limited features, wouldn't they start to look pretty similar? are there different colors these gargs can have besides browns and whites? are there any that have legs more similar to a bird than a horse or a lion? are there any that have different kinds of wings or something?

it doesn't bug me that the English gargs look SO different from the other gargs we've seen around the world, and i know that that bugs some people... but it does bug me that the English gargs seem to be limited to only features we saw in "MIA"...

guess thats all i have to say about that, LOL!

Entity writes...

I have something to add about the definition of "sentience." Hopefully you remember this comment thread by the time you get to this. It involved talk of "The One" vs. "The Other" and the ethics of destroying planets in Star Trek, etc. Here's my take:

"Sentience" is a distinctly different quality from "Intelligence." Sentience is being self-aware. Therefore just about all life with a backbone is sentient. Intelligence is the ambiguous one. But we don't like ambiguity, so that's why sentience has taken the role it has in popular language. I say my dog is sentient, a frog isn't. I say a human is intelligent, so is a gorrilla, but a dog isn't. I guess it's ALL subjective in the end.

It brings me to another distinction: the one between sentience and artificial intelligence. Coyote, for instance, can throw a zinger, but is he self-aware? I don't think he is. Xanatos hasn't achieved (or would wish to achieve) that much, has he?

Shan writes...

More of a comment than a question, actually. I saw the thread about you having considered a GARGOYLES Shangri-La story, but unsure about the legalities since it originates from Hilton's LOST HORIZON. I can tell you one other cartoon series that did go to Shangri-La: JEM in 1986. Richard (Rick) Merwin wrote an episode called "Journey to Shangri-La" where Jem and co. go to Tibet after joining a quest to discover the mythic city; it's a serious episode, not a parody or satire. I'm not going to say much about the episode (both because it's neither the right forum nor my place to rant) but I thought you might find it interesting. Don't know what clearance, if any, they had though. I have heard when a sequel book was developed to LOST HORIZON they had to deal with Hilton's estate. Just stuff to contemplate and share with the group at large, I guess, but if you have any thoughts or commentary...

Denis writes...

hi, Greg!
Not really a question, just a reply to your call about the script of Rosswell Conspiracies.

As you've read from the technic question about script terminology, I'm the one who bough the script.
I had it for 30 dollars, but could have gone up to 80, which was all the money I had left for the weekend.

I loved your version soooo much more than the one that was aired! Darker, more realistic, and the character much deeper than in the actual animated version. I never really cared for Nick Logan, but Tony Markus, ah! that's another story! He has that Anti-Lee Majors quality around him, that humor. I was LOL with his line, responding to his cousin. "In fact, things got downright charred and rare." Oh gosh I just LOVE that line!
It's really too bad that 1. they didn't use your script as it was and 2. that you didn't got to write more. R.C. could have been the sci-fi pendant of Gargoyles.
ten stars out of five! *back to re-read it again*

Lord Sloth writes...

I can tell from what you put on my post(and other posts), that Entity's expasion on the vocabulary thing will make you pretty happy. I wanted to say a lot of that to, but I'm not as good with words. It's hard to believe though, that Power Rangers did better better then Gargs, when it's vocab pretty much limited to "Lets get em you guys" and the like. Here are some other good words from Gargoyles: Mechiabelliant<sp???>, enchilon, odyssey, avatar(did I mention that one already?), popirus, humility and some good latin words as well. A few times it seemed a little unrealistic (his reverse phicoligy was pretty blaitent), but otherwise, it has great sentance structure & dialouge(which is more than I can say for myself). That's all I've gota say, except sorry about my bad spelling.

Entity writes...

Hi again,

This is on Xanatos. Someone asked about the logic of Xanatos going through all of the trouble of bringing the gargs to life, only to have them steal some disks, then to just wastefully try to eradicate them with the Steel Clan. I have been conflicted with this contradiction in Xanatos' character as well, and I think it is a result of so much having to be inferred from the episodes. As viewers we are accustomed to being handed everything on a silver platter. Mainstream America is lazy like that. But in a 22-minute cartoon, you didn't have that kind of time. You couldn't explain everything. So characterization, especially, needed to be shown not told.

In Xanatos' case, he really is more of the trickster than the megalomaniac. In the show we got more of an impression of control and dominance. This is the air that X likes to put off. Cool and collected. With a master plan for everything. This was mostly a FRONT. The REAL Xanatos is, as you've accentuated through your episode reviews, a trickster. He lives by the moment. He's a thrill seeker. He makes up his plans as he goes along. That's why his plan in "Metamorphosis" seemed so flimsy, as so many Ask Gregers have brought up. That's why he seemed to change priorities so much in the first season. He re-evaluated. And if you think about it, this more dynamic approach to his character makes his 'reformation' all the more plausible. X, whether we've realized it or not, was in a constant state of change throughout the entire series.

Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

Wow, you can definitely tell the difference between your pre-LA and post-LA responses. ;)

I just had to join Sloth in complimenting you and the other writers who worked on Gargoyles on the unbridled freedom of vocabulary you embraced. In too many cartoon shows, the dialogue is dumbed down to the point where you get angry that someone's actually getting paid for writing it. Adults tend to not realize that kids appreciate good entertainment. They aren't just mesmorized by pretty flashies. And dialogue is a pivotal part of good entertainment. Now that I think about it, I believe Gargoyles has had an even bigger impact on me than I've previously imagined. Words like "cliche" and "naivete" are ones I got directly from Gargoyles. Sure I've seen them elsewhere, but I GOT them from Gargoyles. I'm about to start my first year at college and I am majoring in Creative/Professional Writing (haven't decided between the two yet). Gargoyles is probably the influence that drove me most toward the decision to take my life in that direction. I realize that Gargoyles really was an educational program, and I'm not speaking of the few token episodes that dealt with gun control or literacy or deforestation. Watching Gargoyles made me smart. It is like the anti-cartoon, because it did precisely the opposite of what most typical children's entertainment does, at least when you or Michael Reeves isn't on deck: vegetabilize.

Mary Mack writes...

I was just skimming through the Garg Science archive, and I ran across a post by Faieq asking about colored irises, and whether or not gargoyles had them. She came to the conclusion that gargs had no irises, since the dim moonlight would be enough for them. I don't think that works, biologically, because sophisticated animals (humans included) have irises-- involuntary sphincters which control how much light enters the eye, constricting to prevent damage from too much light and expanding to let in more light in darkness. Gargoyles, like cats, probably have excellent night vision, being all noctournal and stuff, so they HAVE to have irises.

Maybe their eyes are just predominantly dark, like horses and dogs, with light blue eyes cropping up occaisionally.

Dunno why I went on so long. I was actually just checking for your next Gathering ramble (It's still June at this writing), and for some reason I just had to mention the horse/dog/iris thing.

Thanks for your time.

Blaise writes...

Hi Greg!
This is about two days after the Convention, and I just wanted to say how great it was seeing/meeting you and the rest of the cast and crew of GARGOYLES (or at least a sizable portion of them) in person. I also enjoyed seeing the various pitches you had (I LOVE Sphinx's design--though I doubt that was at all final), and hearing the stories surrounding the various aspects of the show.

Kudos to you, Jennifer, Patrick, Kathy, and the rest of the Con staff, volunteers, and guest for making this an extremely memorable Con.
(Of course, by the time you read this it will have been MONTHS in the past, but the good feelings are still that strong.)