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matt writes...

what is Goliath's reaction to Broadway and Angela's relationship? what is Demona's?

Greg responds...

I think he's pleased.

Demona's probably conflicted. I don't think she likes Broadway, simply because he's alligned against her. But I don't think she's rooting for her daughter to be alone either.

Response recorded on December 22, 2000

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Faieq writes...

I asked this question before and you responded
"I don't have my timeline with me, so I cannot assume the premise of your question is correct. Please resubmit it."
So now I'm resubmitting it:In 975 Goliath and Demona/'Angel' were 37 chronolgically, I think, and this seems to be a little young to be committing themselves to eacch other (compared to the trio, who were the same age in 994 but were single). Does that mean that the Trio mated late and the rest of their rookery siblings already have mates in 994, or did Demona and Goliath become mates long before their other brothers and sisters?

Greg responds...

I think Goliath and Demona mated a tad young. A few of the Trios contemporaries may have mated at the time of the massacre, but most would not have.

Response recorded on December 22, 2000

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Elisa Ann Goliath writes...

Hi! It's me again! Just wanted to ramble a little bit about E&G's relationship. (And a comment or two would be nice:)
Lately I've been thinking a lot about marital relationships. (You know, what makes a good one. My parents recently had their 41st anniversary, I guess that's why I'm thinking about it.) Now, I'm only 16, and I don't presume to know everything about marriage, but I think I can safely say I have a more realistic view of marriage than most of my peers.
In the series, as a HUGE fan of the E&G relationship, of course my main concern is for E&G to get "married", but really if you think about it, they already have a relationship that is.... I don't know, kind of marriage-like. In the Bible, men are commanded by God to love their wives as Christ loved the church (be willing to die for) and women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way). With Elisa and Goliath, Goliath loves Elisa with all the tenderness of his heart, is willing to die for her, and he values her and her opinions, and is therefore always asking for her input and for her help. Also, since he loves her, he is not demanding or arbitrary, making it easy for her to submit. She, of course, loves him as much if not more than he loves her, is willing to die for him, and is usually ready to submit when he makes a final decision on something, whether or not it is what she suggested. As a proud, independent woman this cannot always be easy, but she makes the sacrifice because she loves him and because she knows that he is only doing what he thinks is best.
Well, I've just been wanting to get that down on record.
Thanks! TTFN!

Greg responds...

Elisa Ann, I can't let it go. I should, but I can't. Cuz I've got a daughter, and I wouldn't want her to someday read this exchange and think that even by ommision, I might possibly agree with you. I don't agree with the following statement you made: "women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way)." I don't think it works best that way. I don't see any reason why women in particular should sublimate themselves to men. Why not men to women? Or why submit at all. Why not just be true to yourself, and find someone who compliments that truth? That's how I see Elisa and Goliath. Whether I succeeded or not, that's the kind of relationship I tried to forge between them.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree with it. And I don't see Elisa as even VAGUELY submissive. He respects her. She respects him. Each of them do things at times that the other wishes they would not. Not just Goliath, but Elisa as well. She is strong, proud, independent, loving. All the things you've listed. So is he. EITHER would die for the other. (Not just him for her.) I'm gratified you like their relationship. But I think you have subtly mischaracterized it to fit views you already hold.

Response recorded on December 21, 2000

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Chapter XXI: "Vows"

Written by Shari Goodhartz
Michael Reaves, Story Editor

Benny: "But Daddy, when it's dark they get alive. But when it's light, the get frozen like a statue."

Last night, the kids, my sister, my wife and I all watched "Vows" together. Time to ramble.

Back to the Golden Cup Bakery Building. As I noted in the previously posted memo about this episode, I wanted a little opening battle, but I didn't want to waste time in a tight, packed script explaining how this came about. It does beg the question though. Assume that X contacted Elisa. She told Goliath. He went ALONE? His friends allowed this? Hmmm.

Xanatos knows from the letter to himself what to do, but I sometimes wonder just how detailed the letter was. I like to think it was fairly sketchy. That exactly HOW Xanatos got Goliath to come was his own machinations. Otherwise, though he takes the credit for the letter, the truth is that the plan itself wasn't his idea. He got the idea from the letter. And he wrote the letter based on what he had done, which he had gotten from the letter. None of this is really his to own, though he does claim ownership. So I like to think that at least some of the details were X's. For example, X knows what G will respond to, i.e. Demona.

Hudson, on hearing about the wedding, suddenly makes the connection to the long ago incident when he met the Goliath from the future. So he's strangely ambivalent. Elisa on the other hand, seems flat out jealous to me. After the events of "The Mirror" and "Eye of the Beholder", she's much more aware and focused on her feelings for Goliath. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS. At this time, she thinks it's impossible. But that doesn't change how she feels. And now, she's jealous. Goliath's feelings for Elisa are just as intense, but so are his feelings for the "Angel" of his youth. He HAS to give it one last chance. (And this will be the last chance. The final nail in the coffin of his and Demona's "marriage".) Brooklyn, meanwhile, is just knee-jerk against anything involving Demona.

PETROS XANATOS is introduced. Again, I wonder why he was invited. Was he also included in the letter? Or did Xanatos invite him to prove something to his father. Is X that needy? Or did X invite him to the wedding, because of course he'd invite his father to his wedding, and his already planned "honeymoon" to 975 shouldn't alter his decorum. Perhaps he's mildly surprised his father winds up coming along? Anyway, Petros was a fun character. A tough hard physical man. With morals. A great contrast to the son. I knew even then that we'd give Petros and David an arc to their relationship, (one that eventually would culminate in Gathering2).

"Oh, reason not the need." A little King Lear is always nice. And I love Petros' attitude on the line, "And the armor?" I mean what would you say to your son if you saw him dressed like that? I'd like to know how many people had sort of forgotten that X was even wearing armor (we're so used to it) until Petros made an issue of it?

I love all the irony in the dialogue between Petros and David. David knows what he's planning. He must be smiling when Petros says "I'd like to get my hands on the man who gave you that coin." And when David says, "Someday, I'll prove to you that I'm a self-made man," he must really be patting himself on the back.

I love the voice work of Keith and Marina when doing their teen-age counterparts. So subtle, yet it's always clear which Goliath and Demona is talking at any given moment.

CONTINUITY:
Gotta love that storage room in the clock tower. The Eye of Odin, the Grimorum, half the Phoenix Gate, and, oh, yes, a comatose Coldstone. By the way, despite what the memo said, I think generally, Goliath carried that Gate in the pouch attached to his belt. Not behind some brick. We hadn't actually come up with that pouch yet, not until the World Tour. But using RetCon, I think that's where he kept it until they moved to the clock tower and Demona tried to kill him, Hudson and Elisa in "Long Way to Morning".

One interesting thing: this is the first episode where we actually CONFIRM that the ILLUMINATI does exist. Matt's mentioned it. Even chased it in SILVER FALCON, but we've never been shown any proof of it's existence until now. Was anyone surprised by that?

Judge Roebling was interesting in theory, though not so much in the episode. I'd like to do more with him some day. I also thought that it was interesting that despite seeing the tape of the Gargoyles in advance. And not reacting outwardly when he saw Goliath, he still gasps when Demona enters. What is it about her? When she entered, Benny turned to me and said: "She's queen of the Gargoyles." Oh. So that's it.

(And everytime Xanatos and Fox are on screen together, Benny likes to point out that he and Erin dressed up as them at the last Gathering. "That's me. That's you, Erin.")

To some extent, X must have filled D in on his plan. I love her "acting" when she enters and gives her bitter "excuse" for being there to Goliath. She's playing hard to get!

I love Petros: "Unnacceptable." He's still trying to teach David the error of his ways.

The Gate itself is very idiosyncratic. It's size, the size of its portal, and the duration the portal stays open seems to vary not just from episode to episode but from scene to scene. Sometimes it annoys me, like when Princess Elena removes the Gate from her sleeve, and suddenly it's bigger than her hand. But now I'm just amused by it. Again, if you think of it as a steam valve for the timestream, it explains a lot.

I love the little sound that Paca put in when the two pieces of the Gate first come together. What a tip-off that was, yet it's subtle. Did anyone think about the significance of the talisman that Demona had shared with Goliath before she started speaking in Latin and flames appeared out of nowhere?

It was hard to make people understand the time loop a bit. But it seemed really hard to make them see why I kept wanting to repeat scenes to show the connective tissue. We had to squeeze in Owen's "Honeymoon" line the second time. No one left space for it.

For the first of many times in the series, someone (X) says the line: "It's not where, it's when". (Erin: "I know when.")

I love X & Fox's relationship. "Having fun." "A marvelous time." Great stuff.

Hudson gets a close look at 1995 Goliath and immediately sees the age and wear and tear on the guy. (I love the shot of Goliath gagging him.) That says a lot for Hudson, because the visual difference between the two Gs was extremely subtle in the animation -- when it existed at all.

Knowing what we had planned (more or less) for Avalon, we were already laying groundwork here for that. Setting up the combined power of the Gate, Grimorum and Eye. Setting up the Archmage's desire for that power. Further demonstrating his enmity for the people he'd wind up using. Of course, making Demona his apprentice was fun. Tells a lot about her own desire for power that even when she was a good girl, she was still willing to work for the Archmage in order to learn his secrets. Willing even to steal for him.

The Norman Ambassador and Prince Malcolm make a BIG deal about how odd the Xanatoses' clothes are. But were they THAT strange? Was Fox's wedding gown that odd? And even if they were strange, did they look as shabby as Prince Malcolm seemed to suggest?

Not every episode gives you a double wedding. Fox and David. Elena and Malcolm. Hey, did anyone notice that we married off our lead villain? That was very daring, and we all but threw it away in Act One. Was anyone expecting Fox and X to really get married? And once they were, did you think you'd see them have a kid by season's end? I think we broke new ground there.

I like the exchange between Goliath and Hudson. Goliath's trying to explain that he's not a creature of sorcery, but a time traveler. H: "And I suppose you came back in time on the wind." O.k., well sorcery was involved if you're gonna get technical. And Goliath has some amusing tense problems while trying to describe what happened in his recent past, Hudson's FAR future. Then Hudson looks him in the eye and decides to trust him on no further evidence. Cool.

I knew a girl named Bryant from Bar Harbor, Maine once. That's where we got X's home town.

Fox is so proud of her man. But I love Petros' "Mr. Big-Shot Time Traveler" line. Or rather I love the way Morgan Shepard read the line.

How hard did Demona try to do things differently from the way she remembered them being done? She knows Goliath is going to fly down to try and join her and her younger self. She tries to leave before he can get there. But the gate stays open long enough for him to go with. Did it ever occur to her to go somewhen else other than 994? I guess part of it could be chalked up to dim memory. It was over a thousand years ago. And Demona lived through that 1000 years. Even for a very significant event in her life, it must still be very hazy.

That exchange between Demona and Demona is a lot of fun. Demona is so brutal to Demona. (And, hey, she spells out the Gate's power to any audience member who hasn't yet caught on.) "Do not share it with-- Do not share it!" I love that line. Also:

"I am what you will become."
"I will never be like you."
"I don't want to hurt you."
"And I don't want to BE you."

pretty cool stuff.

I also like the moment when we have two gates rolling about on the floor and young Demona and older Goliath both bend over to pick them up. At first we had a lot of discussion as to who should pick up which gate. But the discussion became moot, since after the gate pieces were reunited, they almost always seemed like they had never been broken in the first place. Magic.

And the young Demona, older Goliath scene is also gorgeous.

"What am I to do?"
"Nothing."

Love that. Love his whole "Do nothing/attend the petty jealousy" speech. I think it's very pretty. Very sad. At that moment, does Goliath hope he's changing the future? Or is he simply trying to spare this young Angel a couple extra decades of pain?

Showing Demona's natural bents again: Goliath isn't sure if he remembers the incantation, though he's heard it multiple times by this point. Young Demona, having only heard it ONCE, does remember and uses the Gate perfectly.

"Time Travel's funny that way." At least it is in the Gargoyle Universe with the strict, strict rules that I imposed. Of course, I've always thought that those strict rules made the stories more challenging for the writer and, yet, more fun and satisfying for the viewer.

I also really like Petros' "American Penny" speech. For once the "Xanatos Tag" of victory doesn't go to David.

Where did the expression "More's the pity." come from? I've heard it many times. I know what it means, though that's more from sound and context than from the words themselves. What am I quoting when I use it? Does anyone know? (This isn't a contest. I really don't know.)

Finally, my tape has the weird mistake ending that first aired, which shows Demona and Goliath in the clock tower. It's pretty, but it drives me nuts and I think it's really confusing. But I've talked about that many times before, and I'm sick of it, so this time, I'll let it go.

COMMENTS WELCOME!


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VOWS memo

Saw "VOWS" last night with the family. I'll ramble on that one shortly, but here's the memo from November '94. Shari Goodhartz wrote the outline, which Michael Reaves edited. Shari's entire story was more or less set at the Eyrie Building. It was about Demona and Xanatos using the wedding to get half of a magical talisman from Goliath. Goliath prevents them from using this macguffin, but realizes once and for all that he and Demona are over.

As I noted below, it seemed like that wasn't enough. So I took ALL of Shari's story and CRUSHED it into Act One. Then I came up with the Time Travel story that was the heart of VOWS. All of Acts Two and Three as presented in the memo below are my work. But I think Shari and Michael did a great job of executing it in this jam-packed episode.

One little tidbit. Petros was my original name for Xanatos' father. (I went to college with a guy named Petros.) But Shari and/or Michael named the dad "Stefan", which I went with here. At the recording session, Marina Sirtis pointed out that the name didn't work for some reason that I can no longer recall. (Aris, any thoughts?) So I jumped in and rechristened him Petros. Later we realized that both Elisa and David had fathers who had been named variations on Peter. To me, that was a very cool thing.

WEISMAN 11-25-94

Notes on "Vows" Outline...

GENERAL
Basically, it still didn't seem like we had enough story. So I compressed what was here and tried to extrapolate forward to fill out acts 2 and 3.

THE TALISMAN
I'm calling it the PHOENIX GATE. It can be used as a gateway to anywhere and anywhen. (The Gate will, I believe, eventually give us our Battle of Britain Story. And give the Archmage a powerful weapon for reaching and conquering Avalon.) By combining the two halves of the Phoenix Gate and invoking the Latin translation of the phrase: "Burn down the walls of time and space!", the gate opens in flame and sucks up anyone in the immediate vicinity, transporting them to the place and time chosen by the invoker. But choosing requires incredible concentration. Otherwise, the chooser's emotional or mental whim of the moment may cause the gate to drop everyone off at Burger King instead of Fort Knox.

TIME TRAVEL
So we're going to do a time travel story. Which means we need to establish traveling rules for our series. I'm going with the most conservative, most restrictive rules possible, because more than any other type of fantasy or science fiction convention, time travel is really subject to logic abuse. So...

Whatever's happened in the past has already happened, including the actions of our time travelers. Recorded history may be incomplete or incorrect, but true history cannot be changed. When Demona and Goliath go back in time to meet the young Demona, both of the older gargoyles are seeking to change or influence the young Demona's history. But this meeting already took place. The older Demona remembers it. (Maybe not every precise detail, and maybe she didn't fully understand the event at the time, but she does remember it.) Whatever influence the modern gargoyles had on her has already been figured into the events that followed, many of which have already been depicted in other episodes. (Sadly, in this case, neither Goliath or Demona had any real sustained influence on the younger Demona at all. That's the tragic flaw of both Demonas. They just never learn.)

WHERE AND WHEN ARE WE GOING?
Castle Wyvern. 975 A.D. The castle is ruled by the 21 year old Prince Malcolm of Wyvern. Malcolm's chief advisors are the 35 year old Captain of the Guard [NOTE: per my recent work on the timeline, the Captain was 29 years old in 975.]; the Archmage (nine years younger than when he appeared in "Long Way to Morning"), and Hudson who is biologically 49. Young warriors, Goliath and Demona are both biologically 19, (in "Long Way..." they were more like 23). If you have space for them, Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway are all biologically nine. Bronx hasn't hatched yet. In contrast, our modern Goliath is biologically 29 years old and Hudson's 59.

VOWS
That's the theme. Vows. When you keep them. When you can't. Why you do or don't. Don't hesitate to play it up.

STEFAN
In thinking about it, I think Stefan Xanatos should be a naturalized American Citizen living in a north eastern fishing community. Maybe somewhere in Maine. He's still Greek, but he emigrated before David was born. That way, David Xanatos could have been born and raised to pursue (and pervert) the American Dream.

BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Night by some landmark, (maybe the Goldencup Bakery Building or the Cyberbiotics Tower). DAVID XANATOS (in armor) and GOLIATH fight. No stolen Cyberbiotics devices. I really don't want to sweat this scene too much. There are a hundred ways that this could have begun, and in the interest of getting to our main story quicker, I don't want to spend a lot of time "prologing" our prologue. But for the sake of consistency, I'll posit the following: Xanatos left a vaguely menacing message for Goliath with ELISA, whom he can reach easily enough at the precinct house. (The location of the rendezvous itself may have suggested bad news.) Goliath, prepared for a trap but not about to hide from danger, went to the stated rendezvous and, expecting the worse, waded into battle before Xanatos could get a word in edgewise. Well, Xanatos is always up for a little workout, so he fought back with relish, taking his time to reveal the real reason he had asked Goliath to come: He wants Goliath to be best man at his wedding tomorrow night. As a little incentive, he's invited DEMONA, and wrested a promise that she'll be on her best behavior throughout the event. [Reveal as much or as little of the "prologing" as necessary in order to make the scene play.]

2. Clock Tower just before Dawn. HUDSON seems strangely ambivalent, but Elisa and BROOKLYN can't believe Goliath would even consider going to the wedding. They have a hundred reasons each why it's obvious lunacy. Goliath doesn't put up much of a counter-argument. He knows they're right. He won't go. Dawn comes. They all turn to stone. Elisa heads home.

3. Castle during the day. In the courtyard, Xanatos waits for something, still in his armor but with the helmet off. A helicopter lands, piloted by FOX and carrying STEFAN XANATOS, a big, tough, weathered but honest Greek fisherman. Stefan is a little put off by his son's armored attire, but tries at first to make the best of an awkward situation. He is teasingly superstitious about his son seeing Fox on the day of the wedding, but the happy couple make their own luck and patronizingly ignore his concerns, which darkens Stefan's mood. Fox exits to get dressed. David asks his dad, what he thinks of the place. Stefan is frankly appalled by the conspicuous consumption. Why does his son need a place like this? "Oh, reason not the need, father. I wanted it. So I took it." Stefan is disgusted by his son's attitude. Why does he need to wear armor? David assures him, the armor is purely defensive. Defense against what? What kind of life does his son lead? He think David would have been better off being a humble fisherman, like himself: "In fact, if I ever get my hands on the man who sent you that coin, I swear I'll teach him a lesson for meddling with my family." David smiles when his Dad brings up "the coin". That's ancient history, Pop. Besides, that coin was only worth about 20 grand. David's now worth "considerably more". But Dad's not letting him off the hook. If he had never received that coin anonymously, he'd never have become what he is now. "You know, Dad, someday I'm going to prove to you that I really am a self-made man. And that's a promise." Besides, if the castle and the armor upset you, wait until you meet the best man.
On cue, OWEN enters with the JUDGE who is to perform the ceremony. Owen has prepared a little videotape of the gargoyles for Stefan and the Judge to watch. That way, they won't swallow their tongues when they see Goliath and Demona. As they all head inside, Owen questions whether this is necessary, will Goliath really show? He'll be here, Xanatos assures him, "I'd take an oath on it."

4. Back at the clock tower during the day, we push in on the stone Goliath and ripple dissolve to his dream/memory.

5. Castle Wyvern, 975 A.D., night. YOUNG GOLIATH finds YOUNG DEMONA standing on the tower with YOUNGISH HUDSON. Demona seems ridiculously happy to see him. Goliath doesn't want to miss PRINCE MALCOLM'S Wedding. She seems a bit distracted. She looks at Hudson, who says "Go on, then." She and Goliath glide down to one of the upper windows of the Great Hall. From there, they watch this strange human ceremony of bonding, including the exchange of rings. Goliath comments on the beauty of the symbolism or something, and Demona takes out the PHOENIX GATE. She separates the two pieces and hands him one. She swears she will never stop loving him. (If she seems a little too intense, we'll chalk it up at this stage to the emotion of the moment.) Goliath takes his half of the gate, and somewhat awed by her intensity, makes a similar vow. They embrace, stroking each other's hair. (The Gargoyle equivalent of kissing.)

6. Dissolve back out to the Clock Tower at Dusk. Goliath and the others explode awake. Goliath goes to a secret hiding place in the clock tower. (Behind the comatose, COLDSTONE, perhaps.) We see the GRIMORUM and the EYE OF ODIN, as well as Goliath's half of the Gate. (He had hidden it a thousand years ago in a hollow brick at the castle, which Xanatos had transported to NYC unaware of its contents. Goliath had retrieved it before moving to the Clock Tower.) He clutches the gate-piece in his huge hand and leaves, never giving the other gargoyles a chance to talk him out of what even he must realize is a foolhardy quest. Hudson watches him go.

7. Night at the castle. Xanatos and Owen wait in the courtyard for Goliath. Both are now dressed in tuxedos, and Xanatos is wearing a lapel pin that depicts a pyramid with an eye at its apex radiating light. Owen questions whether he should be wearing the emblem of the ILLUMINATI SOCIETY in public. Xanatos says cryptically that it's a necessary risk. [By the way, I have no idea if this is an Illuminati symbol or not. But it seems to fit.] Goliath arrives. Owen offers him a bow-tie. Goliath is not amused. Xanatos gives him Fox's wedding ring to hold. That's what the best man does, you see. Hold the ring, until the couple exchanges vows.
The three enter the Great Hall. Everyone is there. The judge and Stefan have already seen Demona, but Goliath is even more startling thanks to his imposing size. Fox is wearing a white dress, but something non-traditional and sexy. And Demona broods. Goliath approaches her, clutching the gate-piece tightly in his fist. She does not even want to talk to him. She feels she has to attend this farce because Xanatos insisted, and she needs to keep him as an ally. But she cannot fathom why Xanatos wants Goliath here. Goliath attempts to remind her of the last wedding they attended together, but she is not interested in reminiscing.
The wedding ceremony begins, rather informally at first. Keep it very short. (At some point, the Judge should ask Fox's real name. Fox coldly informs him that "Fox" is legally her real name now.) We get to the exchange of rings. Goliath hands Xanatos one for Fox. Demona hands Fox one for Xanatos. Demona looks across at Goliath and seems to break down. Just as the Judge pronounces David and Fox, HUSBAND AND WIFE, Demona runs from the Hall. Goliath pursues. Xanatos & Fox, exchange glances. "Now the fun really begins." They start to follow the gargoyles. Stefan tries to restrain his son: What are you up to now? You'd interrupt your own wedding to engage in Machiavellian scheming? But Xanatos is in a bit of a hurry. He and Fox head out the door pursued by Stefan. The Judge turns to Owen very confused. Owen says something dry and witty. And then both men follow the rest.
Outside, Goliath catches up with Demona before she can glide away. Does she remember their vows? Is there still a chance for them? He shows her his gate-piece. He's always kept it. She gently removes it from his hand and takes out hers. So has she. She puts the interlocking pieces together to form the PHOENIX GATE. And then... she laughs. Goliath is such a fool. He's fallen right into Xanatos and Demona's sentimental trap. Now she has the Gate. And she intends to use it. And just as the Xanatos clan approaches, she speaks the incantation. A huge bird of fire seems to engulf Goliath, Demona, David, Fox and Stefan Xanatos. The fire consumes itself. Owen and the Judge arrive just in time to see the last spark go out. There is no sign of the wedding party. Owen: "It seems the honeymoon has begun earlier than expected."

8. Wyvern, Scotland, on the cliffside near the forest overlooking Castle Wyvern. (This is where Hudson and Goliath froze the morning of the gargoyle massacre of 994 A.D. Only now, it's 975 A.D. -- the night of Prince Malcolm's wedding.) Our five time travelers materialize out of the flaming gate. Stefan asks "Where are we?" David: "The question isn't where... but when?"

ACT TWO
9. Pick up right where we left off. Demona laughs and launches herself off the cliff. Goliath pursues, leaving the humans behind. Xanatos doesn't waste any time. "Follow me!" He runs back into the forest followed by Fox and a very confused Stefan.

10. Air chase. Demona manages to put some distance between herself and Goliath. She chants the incantation and vanishes into the flaming "Gate", leaving Goliath alone.

11. In the forest, Clan Xanatos comes upon TWO HOODED RIDERS who are being attacked by FOUR ARMED BANDITS on horseback. Although he is unarmed, Xanatos never hesitates, wading right in against the bandits. Xanatos, Fox, the larger of the two riders and even Stefan make short work of the bandits. The bandits are forced to flee without their horses, which Xanatos commandeers for his family. The large rider is grateful but suspicious of these strangers in bizarre garb. Then he notices Xanatos' Illuminati pin and warms up fast, briefly drawing back his cloak, to reveal that he wears the same Illuminati emblem. He tells Xanatos that he is the NORMAN AMBASSADOR. He and his "companion" bring "priceless gifts" to Prince Malcolm of Wyvern. Xanatos may wear strange garb, but he's a great fighter (and a fellow Illuminatus). The Ambassador would be honored if Xanatos' would accompany them the last few miles to Castle Wyvern. He also promises that Prince Malcolm will be very grateful for their help as well.

12. Having lost Demona, Goliath soars closer to the castle, debating with himself whether or not he should land there. Then he spots Demona again from a distance. He circles to intercept her, but as she lands on a castle battlement, she is greeted by a young Goliath. And the adult Goliath realizes that he wasn't tracking his enemy, but her younger counterpart. He comes in for a landing on one of the high towers of the castle, and surreptitiously watches the young lovers below him. It almost tears his heart out. And then he hears Hudson's voice behind him, demanding to know what he's doing up on the tower when he had been assigned to hold watch on the battlement. Adult Goliath turns to see his MENTOR, (the YOUNGER HUDSON). When Hudson gets a good look at him, he immediately sees that something is wrong. And when Hudson sees young Goliath and young Demona, below on the battlement, he's ready to cry sorcery, and Adult Goliath has to slap a hand over his mouth.

13. At the gates of the castle, Xanatos, Stefan, Fox, the Ambassador and the hooded rider are greeted by young Prince Malcolm and the ARCHMAGE. The rider is revealed to be PRINCESS ELENA of Normandy. (I made this name up, and have no idea if it's accurate to tenth century Normandy.) The Ambassador had hoped that by arriving in secret, he and the Princess would avoid just the kind of trouble that Clan Xanatos saved them from. Malcolm is very grateful. He was to marry Elena tomorrow, but because the princess was attacked, he has decided to move up the wedding to this very night. He tells his SERVANTS to prepare the Great Hall. At the Ambassador's prompting, Elena pulls out her father's wedding gift. It is a priceless golden treasure known as the PHOENIX GATE, which she will officially present to the Prince after the ceremony.

14. Meanwhile, with great difficulty, Goliath is trying to convince Hudson that he is not a sorcerous creature, but a visitor from the future. (He does not choose to reveal how far in the future.) Goliath is a bit flustered himself: he doesn't know how much to reveal, and he has to remind himself not to use anachronistic names like Hudson and Demona. He manages to babble out the fact that sometime in the future, he attended the wedding of an enemy and that he and his... enemies were sent back in time by some kind of sorcery. He is particularly concerned for the younger versions of himself and Demona. He needs his MENTOR's help. (This conversation will explain the older Hudson's ambivalence in Scene 2. He remembered meeting the adult Goliath after the latter had attended the wedding of an enemy.) Hudson isn't sure what to believe, but he looks deeply into adult Goliath's eyes and decides to trust him.

15. The Archmage returns to his laboratory. He is furious. At first we think he's ranting to himself, but then we realize he's talking to his apprentice, who cowers a bit in the shadows. It turns out that the Archmage hired the bandits to steal the Phoenix Gate from the Normans. To Malcolm, it is just a gaudy bauble, but to him it is the second talisman of power that he needs. (He has the Grimorum. Doesn't yet have the Eye of Odin.) With it he can transverse space and time in a thought. He needs his apprentice to steal it from the Princess before the wedding. Hesitantly, the apprentice steps forward out of the shadows. It is the young Demona.

16. Fox and Stefan watch as Xanatos hands the Ambassador a letter, and returns to face his father. He tells him that the letter contains instructions for the Illuminati society and two sealed envelopes. The Society is to wait 1000 years and then deliver the first envelope to a young David Xanatos of Bar Harbor, Maine. The envelope contains a small coin, a minor reward requested of the Prince for saving the Princess. The coin is practically worthless in 975, but by 1975 it will be worth about 20 grand. The second envelope is to be delivered twenty years after the first. It contains a detailed account of how the coin was obtained. That's how Xanatos knew how to set all this up. He had received instructions from himself last week. "So you see, Pop. I am indeed a self-made man." Fox beams with pride. Stefan is quiet for a beat. Then asks: "All right, Mr. Big Shot Time Traveler. You sent yourself your little letter before you answered one important question: How do we get home?"

17. Young Demona sneaks into the Princess' room through a window and grabs the Phoenix Gate, while Elena's back is turned. She leaves by the same window, but she doesn't get very far. Suddenly, her older counterpart appears before her in a fiery flash of Phoenix flame.

ACT THREE
18. Up on the tower, the burst of Phoenix flame attracts the attention of Goliath, Hudson -- and Young Goliath down on the battlement! Adult Goliath knows the flame signals the arrival of his... enemy. But his younger counterpart MUST NOT investigate. Hudson agrees to waylay young Goliath. Adult Goliath takes off in the direction of the fading flame.

19. Meanwhile, the older Demona confronts her younger self. Both hold a complete version of the Phoenix Gate. (Don't you just love time travel stories?) Anyway, the younger Demona is obviously stunned by what she sees. The older one is right to business. She knows for a fact that her arrival is about to attract some unwanted attention. They need to go somewhere private to talk! She invokes the Latin spell and her gate opens into fire that sucks in both Demonas. At the last possible second, Adult Goliath flies into the fiery gate, and all three vanish.

20. Castle Wyvern. The highest tower. 994 A.D. A few nights after the Massacre. The 994 counterpart of Goliath is frozen in stone (in Thinker pose) at night! Small fires still burn. Fragments of other gargoyles litter the ground. On the cut, the Phoenix Gate deposits Young Demona, Adult Demona and Adult Goliath a few yards above the tower. The Demona's drop down gently enough, but Goliath's momentum from scene 19 sends him crashing into the stone floor of the tower. Adult Demona seems ready for this as well. Before Goliath can recover, she slams him across the back with all her might, plus both fists and the anger of 1000 years. He is knocked unconscious.
And then her real work begins. Young Demona is still in a state of semi-shock. Adult Demona wastes no time. Yes, she is her older self returned from the future with a warning. See the destruction. The death. Goliath frozen in stone at night! Humans did this! And you can stop it! You have the Phoenix Gate. All you have to do is think of a place and time. Hold it in your mind, and by speaking the incantation you are there. With its power you can accomplish anything. Do not give it away to the Archmage. Do not share it with... Do not share it! USE IT!! Destroy all the humans! Rule the Gargoyles! Rule the world!! It's all within your grasp!!!
Goliath starts to come to. Young Demona rushes to his side. Adult Demona intercepts her. "Believe me, I know exactly how you feel." But you cannot trust Goliath. He is weak. He cares more about the humans than the gargoyle clan! The greatest favor you can do him would be to put him out of our misery. (And here is where our Demona has made her big mistake. A mistake made despite the power of hindsight. Because Demona never learns. And because at this time, the younger Demona loves Goliath with all her heart.) Adult Demona: "You must know I'm right! Can't you see I am what you will become?!" And young Demona, still largely innocent and good, snaps: "I will never become like you!" Young Demona attacks adult Demona! Fight scene. Frankly, Young Demona wouldn't be a match for adult Demona, except that the latter is a bit reluctant to trash "herself". Still, it's for her own good.
Goliath regains consciousness and joins the battle. The tide turns and Adult Demona is knocked out this time. Goliath takes her version of the Phoenix Gate from her. Young Demona is pretty near shattered by this whole experience! She turns to Goliath, pleadingly. What should she do?
Goliath is reluctant to use Adult Demona's methods. But he also wants to undo some of the damage the Adult Demona did. Young Demona is touching the frozen version of Goliath. Our Goliath approaches her. Tells her not to worry about this. Not to fear it or look for it. It is not the big catastrophes that must concern her. It is the little slights. The little jealousies and angers that prey upon the heart. Fortify yourself with love and trust, and you need not fear this future.
Goliath looks at Adult Demona. He holds up her Gate. He's not sure he knows how to use it. The younger one lifts her version. She knows how. She speaks the words and the three of them disappear in flames.

21. They reappear in flame on the same tower in 975. Xanatos, Fox and Stefan are there. (The highest point on the castle was the logical place to watch for the Phoenix flames.) Goliath would be tempted to leave Xanatos behind if he wasn't afraid of the damage the guy could do to the future. Goliath says good-bye to young Demona. By now, he's figured out how the gate works. Young Demona steps back out of range. With some hesitancy, Goliath speaks the Latin and our five time travelers disappear.
Young Demona is left alone. She still has her version of the Phoenix Gate, which she holds tightly behind her back. The Archmage comes running up the stairs, clutching the Grimorum. He had seen the Phoenix fire and jumps to the conclusion that young Demona let somebody else get away with the Gate. Before she can reveal that she still has her Gate, he punishes her with a bolt of lightning, and threatens to tell the Prince that she stole the Gate. Hudson glides in, landing between Demona and the Archmage. Hudson wonders why the Archmage would expect Demona to have the Prince's wedding present? If Demona did steal it, who would she be stealing it for? The Archmage takes the hint, begrudgingly. But he won't forget this. He heads back downstairs, grumbling: Those strangely dressed strangers have disappeared. The theft of the Gate can be blamed on them. Obviously, Young Demona never reveals that she still has the Gate.
Young Goliath glides in and in a repeat of the first half of scene 5, Demona seems ridiculously happy to see him. Goliath doesn't want to miss Prince Malcolm's Wedding. Demona seems a bit distracted. She looks at Hudson, who says "Go on, then." She and Goliath glide down to one of the upper windows of the Great Hall.

22. Xanatos' Castle in Manhattan, 1995. A repeat of the end of scene 7: Owen and the Judge arrive on the scene just in time to see the last spark go out. There is no sign of the wedding party. Owen: "It seems the honeymoon has begun earlier than expected."
Our five time travelers reappear. Demona is recovering. Goliath may have defeated her, but he failed too. Demona remembers his little speech from when she was young. She never forgot it. And it didn't change anything. "More's the pity," he says. And he glides off with the Gate.
In excellent spirits, Xanatos approaches his father. "Did you have a good time at the wedding?" Xanatos Senior takes a penny from his pocket and flips it to Xanatos Junior. David catches it and asks, what's this? Stefan says, "It's called a penny. It's not worth much now, but in a 1000 years, who knows. It's my wedding present to you. Because it's all you seem to care about." Stefan turns his back on his son, and walks away.

23. Goliath arrives back at the Clock Tower. Elisa and Brooklyn are there, ready to blast him for going to the wedding. But Hudson takes one look at Goliath and stops them. Goliath puts the Phoenix Gate back in its hiding place with the Grimorum and the Eye. When he turns to face us, there's a single tear rolling down his cheek. Push in on him and ripple dissolve...

24. Castle Wyvern, 975 A.D., night. M.O.S., Young Demona separates the two pieces of the Phoenix Gate and hands one to Young Goliath. They embrace, stroking each other's hair. FADE OUT.


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Faieq writes...

When Iago made Othello believe that Goliath was trying to steal Desdemona away from Othello during the Dark Ages, what was Demona's role in all this?

Greg responds...

Minimal.

Response recorded on November 09, 2000

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Demona Taina writes...

Hello, Greg. :)

I just finished reading your "Eye of the Beholder" outline.. and I'm at a loss of words. The least I can say is, well, GREAT JOB. :)

Well, these are rather.. silly Goliath-related questions that I couldn't help but ask. [giggles]

1. Why didn't Goliath wear a costume for Halloween? Was it because of:

A. He's too big to fit in a costume.
B. He didn't feel like wearing one.

2. If the above is B, then why didn't he wear a costume? He would've looked so incredibly handsome dressed as something that was just so HIM! Maybe as Conan.. or Hercules.. or something big and strong!

Or, hey, what if he dressed as the Beast from Beauty and the Beast? [in a fit of hysterical giggles] That would've been cute.. ;)

Thank you for your time.. :)

Greg responds...

1. Honestly, I think he thought it was gilding the lily. He was just glad to be able to move around in the open. He wasn't "IN" to dressing up for Halloween.

2. Just not his style, I think.

I think we got close enough to B&tB without putting a fur head on him.

Response recorded on November 09, 2000

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Chapter XX: "Eye of the Beholder"

Written by Steve Perry. Story Edited by Michael Reaves.

It's really just a coincidence that we watched this so close to Halloween (11-2-00). I wasn't trying for that. This was just the next episode in the sequence. Still, when I mentioned before we started that this was the Halloween episode of Gargoyles, the kids got very excited. Erin pointed at the framed cell we have in our bedroom which depicts Goliath and La Belle Elisa dancing. She remembered that it came from the episode we were about to watch. Benny then commented that Elisa and Goliath are going to get married. Erin, who has a clearer memory of the last time we completed the 66 episode sequence corrected him. But I said something cryptic, like you never know. Erin said I needed to make more episodes so that we could find out. From her mouth to God's ears.

In general, the kids were very verbal during this episode, or at least Erin was. Benny started out verbal, but fell asleep with his mom rubbing his tummy somewhere during Act One.

In the opener, a classic scene I think, when he first saw Xanatos and Fox together he said: "That was you, Erin. I was him." in reference to the Fox and Xanatos costumes they wore to the Gathering 2000's masquerade.

Erin really bought into the tension of the episode. And it is very tense. Some terrific pacing to this. She remembered this one with much greater clarity than most. "Uh oh. That's not just any necklace." Etc. Personally, I just love Xanatos' pragmatic proposal. The truth is X should have already known that he was truly in love with Fox. I've just done some research into sentencing while working on and reworking my Gargoyle timeline. Fox & Wolf each received a 16 month sentence for briefly holding that model hostage in "Thrill of the Hunt". They had the opportunity to be parolled after eight months. They were rejected. Instead of waiting a mere eight more months for them to be released free and clear, an impatient Xanatos sets up the events in "Leader of the Pack". Is that a man in love or what? Nevertheless, we get his whole "We're genetically compatible and have the same goals" speech. She asks about love, and he feels himself largely incapable of the emotion. He thinks he's too amoral for that. "I think we love each other as much as two people like us can." (Or something like that. I'm approximating all these quotations.) It's fun.

Then comes the sequence in Mr. Jaffe's store. Erin is still very tense: "Uh oh, that's Fox. She's wearing the necklace." and "She wants to stop it [the necklace] with one arm. But she doesn't want to with the other." Here, Erin's hit right on Fox's internal conflict. Part of her is fighting the Eye, but part of her wants to surrender to its power. When X first confronts her in her bedroom, and when the Werefox emerges and attacks, it doesn't shred him. It throws him down on the bed. There's some powerful primal energy swirling 'round that room. Lucky thing Owen is there, or I'm not sure Xanatos escapes with his dignity intact.

Xanatos takes note and activates Plan A, which will be followed by B and C. And a makeshift D. It becomes almost a parody of all his contingencies and "Xanatos Tags" from previous episodes. For once, he's out of control. And he can't bear to admit it. He pretends (even to himself) that he just needs to recover the valuable Eye of Odin, when what he obviously really wants is to save Fox. "...I'd never have just given it away. Ah, well, spilled milk." (I always thought that was a great and yet feeble cover for his real feelings.)

Speaking of the Eye, how many knew back when it was intro'd in "The Edge" that it would be so important? As I think I've mentioned, the Eye was actually the creation of Disney Interactive which was working on a GARGOYLES VIDEO GAME at the time. They told us about the Eye, and I loved the idea and decided to incorporate it into the show. Unfortunately, we didn't use their design, which had this great crow/raven theme to it, appropriate to Odin. Instead, our design always looked vaguely Egyptian to me. I can't remember, but I think that maybe they're design wasn't ready when we needed to complete our model for "The Edge". Or it might have been poor communication. The Eye was designed at Walt Disney Animation - Japan. At any rate, we knew from the gamer folk that the Eye had metamorphic powers. But I wanted to be more specific. Yes, it would grant power, but it had to grant power that suited the legend of Odin's Eye. The Eye traditionally provided Mimir with the gift of sight. That easily translated to "insight" for me. Which is a kind of power in its own right. The Eye in the Gargoyles Universe would externalize and amplify a major trait of the wearer. And, yes, even then I had plans to eventually intro Odin himself and have him stick the thing back in his empty socket.

I think that shot from inside the elevator shaft when Fox smashes her way in is very cool.

Owen with an Elvis tribute: "Fox has left the building."

CONTINUITY
--The Eye of Odin, of course.

--Mr. Jaffe's poor grocery store.

--X's commando squad (including Bruno) is at the ready, yet still unprepared for the Werefox's fury.

--Since "The Mirror", Goliath is more open about his growing feelings for Elisa. She again defuses things by turning his concerns for her into a more objective statement about friendship.

--Goliath is back in the library. This time studying Werewolves. The information won't be useful, but isn't that just like him?

--Elisa immediately jumping to the conclusion that the were-thing is another of Xanatos' mutated victims like her brother.

HALLOWEEN - The trio are very excited to be able to stroll into the open. "No one'll know who we are." Better yet, "No one will know WHAT we are." The taste of conformity they got in "The Mirror" has opened a window on their need to be a part of something larger than the clan.

Another cool visual: Fox and Goliath circling each other, with Fox on all fours.

I love when Goliath tries to reason with Fox. "If Xanatos is your enemy, then believe me, WE are your friends." How little he knows. The Werefox immediately attacks him. Still conflicted. Throughout the story, Fox fights, but the Eye reasserts.

Time for Plan C. But Owen has noticed the flaw in Xanatos' usually stellar power of contingency. X claims that all he cares about is the Eye. But he's only setting things up so that the gargs will get the eye. Subconsciously, all he wants is Fox. But we have Goliath arrive and interrupt just at that moment so that neither X or the audience has time to focus on the contradicition.

X breaks down. Appeals to Goliath. He's out of control. Up to a point. ("Old habits die hard -- he still has the forsight to plant a bug on Goliath ala "Awakening, Part Three".

Gotta love Goliath's line: "Not a good night for you." It's great as a writer when you can legitimately turn the tables and give Goliath a Xanatos line.

HALLOWEEN 2
Broadway REALLY wanted to dress up as a Detective. So he's got a new trenchcoat and hat. Brooklyn, ever the swashbuckler, is a pirate. And Lex... hmm... what should we make Lex. We settled on a pilot, in keeping with his helicopter prowess, I guess. But it was never too clear what Lex would or should be, and I can't help thinking that Lex had trouble deciding on a costume too.

Of course, Goliath doesn't wear a costume.

Vinnie has a line here. Though officially, it's not Vinnie's first appearance, this one line of Jeff Bennett spoken dialogue "A costume over a costume." is the obvious inspiration for all that followed with the Vinster.

And I love Keith as that witch saying "That is a great, great costume." What a great, great line reading.

BEAUTY & THE BEAST. Finally, we get to hit the nail on the head. A moment so romantic (in a very romantic episode) that even the characters take note. Elisa lets her self go for a moment. Goliath just is. The kids are happy for them.

But "Things are not always as they seem". Goliath breaks the moment by attacking a guy in a werewolf costume.

Note: That Goliath now refers to Manhattan as "My castle, my city." A year earlier (more or less) he was calling it Xanatos' city. I love the notion that Goliath sees hope in Xanatos LOVING someone. And of course, he's right. Xanatos' love for Fox (and later Alex) will result in Goliath getting the castle back. Not war, but love.

Brooklyn and Lex finally get to eat pretzyls. Remember that in Awakening, Broadway ate them all. Meanwhile Broadway eat's a hot dog and BELCHES MIGHTILY. This was really more about all of us indulging ourselves in low humor. We put the burp into the script. Bill Fagerbakke burped loudly. But our sound effects guy Paca Thomas, put in the burp to end all burps.

CONTINUITY AGAIN
--Lex gets very intense (briefly) and wants to go after FOX. He still hates anything or anyone connected to his Pack experience.

--The return of Brendan & Margot.

Gotta love Elisa's costume. Holster for a garter belt. Very sexy. Solved our nudity problem with Fox too. I'm amazed we got away with that.

In a larger sense, I'm amazed we got away with the entire episode. I was very nervous that the notion of X and Fox getting engaged would be rejected. But the BIG BOSSES didn't focus on the fact that the engagement might lead to marriage. And fortunately, they weren't paying attention when that engagement led to marriage, pregnancy and a kid. I don't think they would have allowed it.

I could have done without Broadway eating his hat.

Fox's internal conflict is visualized when she sees Elisa as herself and attacks to silence that human voice inside her once and for all.

When, in slow motion, Goliath intercepts Fox and saves Elisa (who's usually fairly self-sufficient) it may be the purest moment of Hero saving damsel we have in the series. The dress helps of course.

A little HIGHLANDER inspiration here with Fox and the exploding sign.

I love that Owen's right there with the helicopter.

X is still trying to interpret things to suit his old (and dated) world view. He thinks Goliath is trading the Eye for Fox, which of course he wasn't. Goliath doesn't think that way.

"Now you know my weakness."
"Only you would consider love a weakness."
"You've never looked more heroic."
"A momentary lapse, I assure you."

All great lines.

Let's go home.

And Owen, who signed on BECAUSE Fox and Xanatos were so interesting to the Puck, SMILES.

And now a word about the episode from Erin Sydney Weisman (she typed this herself):

I am most interested in this episode. And the episode I watched was a spooky episode. And I liked the episode, because it was a very enchanting episode.


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LSZ writes...

Who is Goliath's favourite author?

Greg responds...

Don't know. He has high-brow tastes though. And yet, Mark Twain comes to mind. But mostly, I don't think Goliath is the kind of guy who ranks his favorites.

I'm not either really.

Response recorded on November 02, 2000

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Sapphire writes...

What are Goliath's 5 favorite book titles?

Greg responds...

Don't know off the top of my head. Though GREAT EXPECTATIONS immediately comes to mind. Maybe we'll make a contest out of that when this monster is done.

Response recorded on November 01, 2000

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VF writes...

I really admire the patience and dedication of longtime fans and admirers (including yourself) of "Gargoyles." I only discovered the show for myself (with the help of my two young daughters) a bit more than a year ago, and I KEEP hoping that "some day" will come already and new episodes can be made.

Folks can say what they want about Toon Disney, but that's how my daughters found it and shared it with me, so the channel is at least providing the opportunity for a few new viewers to discover the show.

It's clear from watching the series, and then finding this Web site and learning more about the behind-the-scenes processes involved in its making, that there were a lot of thoughtful, creative, talented people behind it. Your ideas about characterization and story continuity have prompted me to post some thoughts and an inquiry here. (It's at the heart of one of the main reasons why I really lament that there aren't any more episodes being made ... yet.)

From a writing point of view, I think "Hunter's Moon, Part III" -- which I realize was a season finale -- would have served as a much better "final" finale for your involvement than "The Journey," which just left everything dangling for me like an unfinished book. Maybe I should say "like an unfinished chapter" because I don't want the book to end. At least in "Hunter's Moon," it ended with a bit of a payoff: an open declaration of mutual love between two main characters ("You know how I feel about you, right?" "How we both feel, yes." and even a kiss). It helped bring together a few loose strands that had been threading from almost the very beginning of the series without completely shutting it off from future development (far from it, actually).

In "The Journey," there is an aborted, sort-of date with very little discussion between Goliath and Elisa about what is really happening between the two of them or that very significant exchange between them from the previous episode. Also, from the information shared in this site, it seems you knew this was your farewell episode in many respects. So I would be interested to learn what you intended to have at work between Goliath and Elisa in this episode because I'm not sure that I "got it" all. I think an argument could be made that the episode, coming immediately in sequence after "Hunter's Moon," implies that a relationship between the two is A-OK with them without any internal conflicts.

Did you really want to make things seem less defined between them and let some time pass before they actually had The Talk about their relationship, specifically to help sustain fans' interest at a time when you may not have known what the future held for the series and their story?

Sorry to ramble on, but I don't want to appear as though I'm sorry you stayed on for one episode too many (again, far from it!) I'd like to learn your thoughts about the episode from a story/character development perspective.

Thank you.

Greg responds...

Well. I was trying to play fair, I think. I was leaving, but the series had 12 more episodes that I was at least supposed to advise on. Most of my positive (try this) advice was ignored, though some of my negative (hey, don't do that) advice was taken. I wanted to give ME some closure, but I wasn't trying to give the series closure.

Specifically, what I was saying was that the journey would continue. That the adventure would continue. That even Japan had gargoyles, and Vinnie (or Greg Weisman) would never be totally out of the picture. That no matter what hassles Goliath and Elisa had ahead of them, that they would still have each other as companions on the journey forward.

This was not to imply that Elisa was all copecetic about loving the gargoyle. But that she knew that she did. That she would never abandon him. And vice versa.

Does that help?

Feel free to ask more specific questions, if I haven't covered it for you.

And by the way, cuts or no cuts, "Deadly Force" or no "Deadly Force", I'm still glad that Toon Disney's airing the show.

Response recorded on November 01, 2000

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Aris Katsaris writes...

Greg, where the adoption is concerned, no, you had never used the word "convenient". In response to a question uou did refer to it as more "conventional" than magical or scientific alteration.

Hmm, so far you have avoided answering to my questions about the species or the gender of the kid... Let's see if you'll answer one about age... Do you see the kid being adopted while still an infant, or when at an older age (able to talk for example)? There are obvious story possibilities in both...

Greg responds...

Have I ever definitively confirmed adoption at all?

If so quote me and reask the question.

Response recorded on October 26, 2000

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Vilija writes...

Hi again!
Did you develop Goliath's character with a contrast in mind? or did it happen over time throughout the show...He'll be sitting there in one episode, reading, or thinking to himself, and in another episode we see this crazy temper. (For example-maniacal laughter in "Macbeth," and threatening to kill people in "Hunter's Moon."
I guess these circumstances would get me pretty angry as well. What do you have to say?

Greg responds...

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. We developed him to be a complex character. Capable of sensitivity, intelligence and -- when pushed -- great rage. Is that what you mean?

Response recorded on October 20, 2000

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Maria writes...

Another silly Question from Silly Maria: ^_^
Why is 'adopting' for Goliath and Elisa more convenient?
I obviously have a very different thinking pattern. I guess I feel that if someone really loved someone else they would be willing to make some sort of change. So that's why I find it hard to believe that Elisa or Goliath can't make a magical change or something. In my mind, just because you change your form doesn't necessarily mean you are changing who you are. It can change a PART of who you are, but it doesn't change everything about you. You are who you are inside. And that includes your SOUL. Your soul is who you are. That's why we are able to differentiate between right and wrong because GOD gave us that gift. We just abuse it sometimes or ignore it, because we are down here on earth to learn. And from circumstance and learning different behaviors, we sometimes become what we were not in the beginning.
So, why would it be so inconvienient? (Bad spelling. . . :P) I mean, I am probably WAY off base. But that's just the way I feel . . . if that's all right.

I guess the problem for us Goliath and Elisa fans is we REALLY want Goliath and Elisa to have a child. Yet, contradictorally, we understand that ethnically, it would be impossible. And yet we hope for a miracle. I guess in my frame of mind, seeing them raise a family of their own would be like some kind of resolution. Strange, isn't it?
Anyway, enough of my rediculous ramblings. I probably don't make any sense - though I try to. It's just hard sometimes to put my thoughts into words. And they don't always come out the way I want them too. So for that I apologize. A hard life has let my communication skills go to par. ^_^!
Well, if that wasn't too - ridiculous - I'll take off now. TTFn. Ta Ta For Now!! :)

Greg responds...

There's nothing wrong with the way you feel.

But it's not the way I feel. I am a secular, at times Pagan, Jew. And yet, I would not convert to another religion for anyone. Not for "love", certainly. If my "love" couldn't accept me for who I am, why would I want her? Most of my life, I dated non-Jews. It's theoretically possible that I might have married one. But I still would not have converted. As it turned out, I did marry a Jew who "practices" the religion more than I do. I haven't gotten "more Jewish" because of her. I've fundamentally stayed the same. And yet, being Jewish is part of who I am. Part of what made me who I am. Same with being short. Same with being nocturnal. Same with being a guy. A heterosexual. A storyteller. I can't change any of these things (or a bunch of other things) without fundamentally changing my identity. Who I am. Who I want to be. I'm not talking about changing breakfast cereals. I'm talking about fundamental factors to my identity in THIS LIFE. Maybe I was someone entirely different in another life, and maybe my "SOUL" is an unchanging light that shines through the prism of each new life. But the prism matters to me. And I think it matters to Goliath and Elisa too. And by the way, I don't see why ADOPTION is any less legitimate a way to share their love with a child than spitting a kid from one's combined loins.

But did I use the word "convenient"? If I did, what was the context? Because the decision was not based on convenience.

Response recorded on October 19, 2000

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Emmlei writes...

original post and reply:Emmlei writes...
ok, i vaguely recall a while back a few questions as to Elisa and Goliath basically raising a child together. a bunch of questions tended to whether it was biological, and if it came about through magic or science. just to get this off my mind, what about adoption?

Greg responds...

What about it?

repost: would adoption be more likely than having a biological child (even if it's through magic or science)?

Greg responds...

It's certainly more conventional.

Response recorded on September 30, 2000

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Emmlei writes...

ok, i vaguely recall a while back a few questions as to Elisa and Goliath basically raising a child together. a bunch of questions tended to whether it was biological, and if it came about through magic or science. just to get this off my mind, what about adoption?

Greg responds...

What about it?

Response recorded on September 26, 2000

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Gengar! writes...

what happened to Goliath's mother

Greg responds...

Which one?

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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Gengar! writes...

How old is goliath

Greg responds...

We just posted those ages. Check the archives.

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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Gengar! writes...

What was goliath like as a baby

Greg responds...

Purple.

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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White writes...

I was always curious to know if you had created Goliath's biological parents. And if so, what would they be like ( Biologicaly and phsycologicaly )
An other thing I was curious with is, Goliath recongnized Angela as his bioligical daughter, could he have recongnized his parents as well ? ( Although I do not think he would have considered them more importent than his other rockery parents )

Thanx in advance ;)

Greg responds...

I'm not that interested in Goliath's bio-parents specifically. And frankly, I only think Goliath "recognized" Angela because Elisa called it to his attention. (Then he started to dwell.)

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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Vashkoda writes...

1) Has Demona already used all the spells available in the pages she tore from the Grimorum?

2) Did Elisa or the others do anything special with that page from the Grimorum with the spell that enchanted Goliath? If Goliath must obey anyone who holds it, couldn't someone say, "I negate the last command", and have Goliath fall right back under its spell? Even if that isn't the case, I would think that the possibility was enough that they would take certain precautions with it. Just wondering.

Greg responds...

1. All but one.

2. They burned it.

Response recorded on September 21, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

In Puck's "Future Tense" illusion, was he attempting to use guilt as a weapon against Goliath to break him down, as well as shock and grief? Brooklyn and Lexington both berated Goliath severely for "running away" and leaving the clan and Manhattan defenceless against Xanatos, making it clear that in their eyes, it was all his fault that the city was in the condition that it was. Lexington also implied (at least, how I saw it) that Goliath's "abandoning" the clan was a reason for his turning evil. So, was Puck attempting to fill Goliath with guilt to weaken him all the more?

Greg responds...

Yep.

Response recorded on September 21, 2000

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Maria Destine writes...

I probably did mis-quote you. Oh well.
Anyways I was wondering if Goliath would ever get to know his grandchildren? Wouldn't he still be alive long enough to spend some time with them? And how well off would the clan be by the time he died? You had mentioned that maybe not everything would be exactly perfect by then concerning gargoyle/human relations. So, just how would situations have been?

Greg responds...

I'm not going to answer that now.

Response recorded on September 16, 2000

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Knight-errant writes...

Goliath had his name in 994? No way. 1)Are you sure? Of course, you're sure. I can't believe no one noticed. 2)Who was story editing? Give them a stern talking to.

Greg responds...

1. No one noticed in 994? I think you're wrong about that. The Captain has a whole big speech about his name in the dining hall.

2. Michael Reaves, but I don't see what you think he did wrong. Cuz I don't see a problem.

Response recorded on September 16, 2000

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Melissa writes...

Hey Greg,
This question might sound confusing but I'll try my best to make it comprehensible.
I don't expect you to remember, but you responded to a question (by Charles) on July 30 about Elisa and Goliath's double date. The question was mainly about Elisa's response how Goliath had chosen to take Delilah. You responded by saying "Elisa was pressuring him. She had to live with the consequences of her choice."
So my question is: I always was under the impression that E & G mutally decided to go on this double date. But by the way you responded, it sounded more like Goliath wanted to date Elisa but she rejected the offer. Was this the case? Am I totally off? If you had any input on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Greg responds...

The notion of "dating" doesn't really come naturally to Goliath.

As I've said before, after years of pussy-footing around, we'd have finally made E&G have an actual DISCUSSION about the status of their relationship. Goliath would "allow" Elisa to drive the conversation, but they would BOTH come to the inevitable conclusion that any relationship between them would be impossible. (Of course, they were kidding themselves.)

Elisa would then attempt to proactively prove that they were moving on to a more common sense approach to romance by having both of them date within their species. She would accept a Halloween invitation to go out with either Morgan or Jason. (To this day, I still haven't decided which.) She would pressure Goliath to take Delilah. Delilah is eager, and for obvious reasons, physically attractive to Goliath. But I'd say Goliath was reluctant for equally obvious reasons, but he agreed to appease Elisa. Then we have this whole action story going on, of course too, which I won't get into here.

But anyway, the result is that they both realize that they are meant for each other. They have to apologize to Morgan/Jason & Delilah, with mixed results. And they then have to figure out just what their relationship, now that they know it's inescapable, is going to be.

How's that?

Response recorded on September 09, 2000

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Maria writes...

You had mentioned that gargoyles don't generally kiss. They use a caress which in some ways for them mimics the kiss. But, considering the fact that Elisa surprised him by kissing him, what would be his reaction later? Would he ask questions about it and she would explain that she kissed him because she loved him? And, would he become curious enough to try kissing her? Would he enjoy it?
I can almost envision a silly face showing that he liked it, kind of like in the scene in Tarzan where Jane kisses an unsuspecting Tarzan. But then, that might not even happen. But it might be cute and inoccent if it did.
Anyway, thanks before hand for replying, and my apologies for some of my earlier more stupid posts. Just curious about that stuff mostly, I guess.

Greg responds...

By the time Elisa kissed him, Goliath had witnessed plenty of kisses. He knows what it means. And after trying it, I'd guess he liked it. If the right person kisses him. Which she did.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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shaun writes...

Is there somethimg between Goliath and Elisa,does the rest of the clan know about it?

Greg responds...

Yes.

Yes.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

I recently watched my tape of "Upgrade", and that prompted a fresh question on my part. In this episode, Goliath finally fills the SIC position, left vacant ever since Demona parted ways from the clan in "Awakening". What interested me was that Goliath took so long to finally think about appointing a second-in-command. "Upgrade" is 25 episodes after "Awakening Part Five", and in terms of the series' internal chronology, probably over a year later, but only now does Goliath finally get around to start looking for somebody to fill the second-in-command slot, after Hudson tells him that he needs a designated successor in case some enemy of the clan does kill or permanently incapacitate him.

So why did Goliath take so long to start looking for a new SIC? Was it anything to do with the fact that Demona had been the last one?

Greg responds...

Not really. Mostly, I don't think that anyone was qualified at first. Brooklyn emerged as a leader. He didn't start out as one.

I think Goliath was de facto counting on Hudson to be his second.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Demona Taina writes...

It's me again! RUN! [laughs]

I was looking through the archives and I noticed the "Hudson put a spell on Hudson" typo. [snickers] You even quoted it! Should I be honored? [laughs] Well, what can I say? [laughs] I edited the post so many times I mixed up the sentence so badly that I ended up with two Hudsons. :P

[laughs some more, then clears throat] Okay, I've been wondering this for a very long time now. In the episode "Eye of the Storm," Goliath puts on the Eye of Odin because he had no choice. If he wouldn't give the eye to Odin, then he could just forget about Elisa. If he handed it over, then Odin would be powerful enough to "destroy" them.

Back to the main question. When Goliath ripped the eye from his neck, he immediately passed out. Yes, he could stand for a few seconds, but then he lost his balance and.. THUD! I thought it was pretty cool, because I had never seen Goliath actually PASS OUT. Sure, he's been knocked out, put to sleep, but never actually lost consciousness without a physical blow or drugs.

So here are my questions. :)
1. How long was Goliath passed out when he took out the eye?

2. How did Angela and Elisa carry Goliath back to the cave?

3. How tall was Goliath when he had the eye on? Under more normal circumstances, he'd be seven feet tall. Nearly as tall as my house. [giggles] But with the eye, the little kid's head barely reached his knees!

4a. What are the names of the two humans? Erm, people. [laughs] I think it's Eric and Gunther.. but I'm not sure.

4b. I know that the father mentioned his second name, but I didn't quite catch it. In fact, I didn't even understand it. :P What's his second name?

5. Silly question, but I'm a big fan of Goliath and I can't resist. [snickers] Why did Goliath rub his head when he regained consciousness?

6. Why did he look for the eye on his chest after he woke up? Didn't he remember that he ripped it off?

7. Erm.. [can't think of anything else] How are you today? :p

Let me say that this is one of my favorite episodes. A pity the USA Network cut out the scene of Goliath hugging Elisa with his wings.. [grumbles] I don't even know what he said to her in English. [grumbles] And it was such a romantic scene..

[scrolls up] Ooh. Long post. :P So, that would be all I guess. [chuckles] Thank you for your time. :)

Greg responds...

1. Not too long.

2. With difficulty. And Odin may have helped for all I know.

3. Very Tall.

4a. Yeah.

4b. Sturlusson -- but I may have mispelled it. I don't have my references here at home.

5. It was sore.

6. He was looking to see if it left a mark.

7. Tired, but fine.

Response recorded on August 22, 2000

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TK writes...

Hello Greg,
ok firsts thank you for answering my questions

and now to the questions

Goliath always tries to tell Elisa how he feels ,right. She always puts her hand on his mouth,to stop him.

Why does she not want to hear it?
and
Why doesn't he just tell her anyway and push her hand aside?
Is it out of respect?

Thanks a ton! Greg!

Greg responds...

1. She generally knows what he's going to say, and she's not ready to deal with that.

2. Yes, respect. And some fear of rejection.

Response recorded on August 22, 2000

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Sixshot writes...

Hello mr Weisman!

During season 1 and 2, we see Goliath getting denied of revenge by Hakon and the Captain, he don't get to throw Xanatos off the Eyrie building, he was stopped trying to rip Dracon's head, the Weird Sisters stop him from wasting Demona, he didn't directly killed the Archmage (twice), he could not finish off Jon Canmore...so will Goliath ever kill someone (at least someone alive)? Anansi really don't count.

Greg responds...

I hope not -- but you never know.

Response recorded on August 22, 2000

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S writes...

Whoops, heh heh, I'd like to make a correction on question #3 in my Physical Attraction post. What I meant to say was: How could Goliath not see Elisa was physically attractive before "The Mirror?"

Greg responds...

I got that.

Response recorded on August 19, 2000

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S writes...

Hello again, Mr. Weisman. Thank you for answering my "Educating Goliath" questions and not pulling a "Weis-guy" answer on me. Gorebash should rename the Smart-ass Responses to "Weis-guy Responses." I'm saying this in good humor, by the way. Anyways...
PHYSICAL ATTRACTION QUESTIONS:
1.You said: "Absolutely. It's all mixed in there. Protect & Serve, right? There's a chicken and the egg element to what brought the Gargoyles (and Goliath specifically) together with Detective Maza. Kindred Spirits. Physical attraction." There's more, but I'll stop there.
My question is: Who 'exactly' does the "Physical attraction" part refer to? Just Goliath to Elisa and/or vice versa? Which brings me to my next question...
2.How come Elisa shows no evidence of physical attraction to Goliath? I mean, you've heard Goliath being referred to as handsome and everything and he has a nice body(for a cartoon character anyway), but how can Elisa not see that he is 'obviously' attractive? Which, yet again, brings me to another question...
3.How could Goliath not see that Elisa was physically attractive? It doesn't make any sense. Look at Demona, she basically looks humanish. I don't see how it could be that hard for Goliath not to see Elisa as beautiful if he sees Demona that way. He could basically think of her as a gargoyle without the gargoylian features(wings, tail, etc.).
Well, that's about all, and thanks.

Greg responds...

1. It depends "WHEN" you are talking about, but the answer is probably both.

2. You're not paying attention if you think that Elisa showed no evidence.

3. Ah, but that's VERY different, particularly, I think, with guys. If you're socialized to find certain physical traits to be beautiful, including wings and tails, than to see someone without those things, might not light your fire, until you look closer.

Response recorded on August 19, 2000

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Axem Gold writes...

I have Brooklyn questions.

1) Were there going to be conflicts between Goliath and Brooklyn (Second In Command).

2) Before he goes on his timedancing adventure will Brooklyn try a few more times to woo Angela.

3) Will Goliath consider turning over leadership of the clan to Brooklyn?

4) Will Katana join Brooklyn willingly or be dragged into the travel?

Greg responds...

1. Occasionally. Nothing major.

2. No.

3. Eventually.

4. Willingly sorta.

Response recorded on August 19, 2000

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Nyrtleka writes...

My Q's about how you mentioned an attempt at a relationship between Delilah and Goliath.

This seems a little bit strange to me. I mean, you've mentioned over and over again that gargs mate for life. I can't see a gargoyle, well, "dating" because they are simply making an attempt at a relationship with someone, instead of really loving that person. If Goliath "dated" Delilah, wouldn't this be against the "Gargoyles mate for life" thing? Or is he just making a last, desperate attempt to break away from Elisa?

Thanks!

Greg responds...

He's humoring Elisa. But not happily.

Response recorded on August 18, 2000

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Carlota writes...

After so many years that I have watched Gargoyles, I have to say that this show rules! I remember THE MIRROR episode and the one thing i have always wondered was why couldnt goliath go to puck and ask to be human to be with Elisa? that what has always been on my mind. I know that Puck/Owen was limited to his power, but before that. why did nothing ever came up. why?

Greg responds...

Why would he want to? Being a gargoyle is who he is. You don't change that.

Look, I'm Jewish. Religious in my own way, I don't much care for organized religions including my own. But even if I fell in love with a woman, there's no way I'd convert for her. Then I wouldn't be me.

Response recorded on August 02, 2000

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Angela (repost by Aris) writes...

Hello, Greg! Please let me know if I'm right about this -- I have proof that Goliath still loves Demona ----> 1.) In "Vows", Goliath spent the whole show trying to get Demona to stay good and love him again. Also, The only reason Goliath went to Xanatos' wedding is because Xanatos said that Demona would be there. I mean, Goliath wasn't going to go, but when he heard the name "Demona", he immediately decided to be the best man. 2.) In "The Reckoning," Goliath, at the end, was fighting Thailog because he was trying to hurt Demona. Plus, Goliath warned Demona about the fire 3.) In "Sanctuary", when Thailog was talking about how he planned on double-crossing Demona, Goliath got really mad. Plus, Goliath was jealous when he discovered that Demona had chosen Thailog (for the time being, anyway!!) 4.) In "Outfoxed," Goliath was talking to Halceyon Renard, and Ranard told Goliath how his missed Jeanine (Fox), and Anastasia. Goliath then adds his own and says how he misses his "Angel of the Night."

Please let me know if these are good facts to support my statement -- Goliath still loves/cares for Demona!! Thanks a million, Greg!!

Greg responds...

Sorry, Angela. "Proof" is an awful strong word. What you have doesn't qualify even as logical speculation.

1. "Vows" was Goliath's last ditch attempt to rekindle their love. Emphasis on "last ditch". He already had feelings for Elisa by this time, but it went against his grain to "abandon" his mate. So he made an attempt to reach her -- and that attempt failed. After that he moved on.

2. Goliath and Demona are in one respect like divorced parents. They both care for Angela. And Demona proved that in "The Reckoning". So yes, for Angela's sake, for the sake of their past feelings together, for the hope that someday, somehow she will reform, for a lot of complicated reasons, Goliath does not want Demona to die. But that does NOT mean he's still in love with her. He's not. And by the way, you're really stretching things here anyway. Goliath has -- indeptendent of Demona -- ample reason to fight Thailog in that situation, not the least being Thailog had just kidnapped him and his clan and had attempted to murder Angela.

3. Any decent person would be mad to hear about Thailog's plan. And jealous? Maybe a touch of residual jealousy was part of the equation. But mostly, he was just appalled. Maybe a bit grossed out even. He does think of Thailog as his son, after all.

4. He does miss THAT Demona. The one he remembers from the past. That's not the same as wanting the one he has to deal with now.

Still, if it makes you happy to ignore all this and pretend that Demona & Goliath belong together, who am I to stand in your way?

Just don't get your hopes up.

Response recorded on August 01, 2000

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Angela (repost by Aris) writes...

Hello, Greg! In "City of Stone: Part 4" MacBeth was going to throw Demona over the bridge in Xanatos' castle in the selarium, but Goliath talked MacBeth out of it. By doing this, Goliath saved both Demona and MacBeth's lives. Now, Goliath could have gotten rid of 2 of his biggest enemies, but he convinced MacBeth that "Death is never the answer, life is." This is proof that Goliath still has feelings for Demona. He could have easily let MacBeth kill her if he didn't love her, but he still does. SO......my question to you is -- this is proof that Goliath still loves, or at least still has feelings for Demona, I am correct?? Please let me know, Greg. I really appreciate it!! :)

Greg responds...

I hate to encourage you. Because frankly Goliath would have said the same thing to Macbeth if Mac had been threatening to kill Xanatos or Tony Dracon or anybody. (By the way, Macbeth wasn't threatening to throw Demona off the bridge. He was threatening to impale her on a jagged piece of metal debris that had fallen from one of the upper floors.)

On the other hand, I never denied that Goliath still has strong feelings for and about Demona. When they finally capture her in "The Reckoning" he won't consider killing her. But what I do deny, is the notion that he still loves her romantically. That ended decisively with "Vows". But theirs is a complex relationship. And feelings don't go away, don't vanish. They simply alter with time and experience.

Response recorded on August 01, 2000

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TK writes...

Hello Again,
First thanks for answerings all of our questions and now the question.

This one just bugs me some so here

Why is Goliath so surprised when Elisa Kisses him/ I mean look at the freeze-frames Gorebash has he looks so suprised or even...well, Idon't know (comments?)

I mean doesn't he want her to kiss him ? or rather doesn't he want to kiss her?

Just thought i would ask
thanks A bunch

Greg responds...

1. He's just caught off guard. Pleased, but, yes, surprised. It's not in character for her. And he didn't yet know what she had just said to Jason.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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fufu writes...

how old is goliath

Greg responds...

He was biologically 29ish in 1996.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Garg Chick writes...

Hey Greg ^_^

I'm a huge E&G fan (Elisa and Goliath, but I'm sure you know that o.O) and I was wondering, in absolutely any way, would Goliath and Elisa EVER have kids? *waits for beating* >;)

Greg responds...

Admit it, for a huge E&G fan, you couldn't be bothered to check either the E or G archive and get your answer immediately. Instead you post a question here and wait over a month for a response that I've already posted MANY times before. Right?

Anyway, "kids" plural?

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Charles writes...

okay, I have alot of time on my hands and I was just reading the old archives. You said you orignally planned to have goliath go on a double date with elisa with delilah as his date. This seems really weird to me, and I think maybe even it woudl be majorly disconcerting and perverse almost for elisa that goliath would go out with delilah. I guess this is just my knee jerk reaction, but would you explain some of your thoughts on the reactions and thoughts of goliath and elisa on his choice of a date?

Greg responds...

Who else could he choose? Elisa was pressuring him. She had to live with the consequences of her choice. That doesn't mean it isn't weird. But hell, that's half the fun. And it was Halloween.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Faieq Ali writes...

1) In the Gargoyle universe, do soulmates exist?
2) If so, who is Goliath's soulmate, Elisa or Demona? What Goliath and Elisa have is honest, but difficult, whereas Goliath and Demona had a good relationship while it lasted, and if Demona had not betrayed the clan they would have still been together until one or the other perished. Their relationship was more easier, but it was naive and dishonest. So which is better?

Greg responds...

1. What do you think?
2. What do you think?

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Faieq Ali writes...

I asked this before but seems to have gotten lost, so I decided to repost it:
1) What would the relationship between Iago and Demona have been like in the Dark Ages? After all Demona was the Archmages' apprentice, but Iago was allied with him, so would he look down on her? In HIGH NOON, he calls her 'sister', but thats because he doesn't know that it is her fault he is dead and that she is now an enemy of Goliath.
Also would he hate her, in Dark Ages, because she was in love with Goliath and was friends with Desdemona and Othello?
2) Did Goliath etc, learn of Demona's apprenticeship with The Archmage?
3) If the answer to (2) is yes, then how would Goliath react?

Greg responds...

1. Edgy.
2. No.
3. N.A.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

I thought that I'd ask you a question about Goliath's decision in "Awakening Part One" to just take Hudson with him instead of the entire clan when he went to pursue the Vikings. What is your stance on his motivation? Many fans of the series have different opinions on it. Some, such as myself, see it as simple "sound strategy" - that, as Goliath had said, it would be dangerous leaving the castle unguarded by any gargoyles while he was out driving the Vikings away from the castle. Others saw it as arrogance and overconfidence, citing his attitude that he could scare the Vikings away without any help. I thought that I'd ask you what your personal take is on this.

Greg responds...

1. I think it was fairly sound strategy on the assumption that you don't have traitors in your midst. As demonstrated in Awakening Part Two, it doesn't take a hell of a lot of gargoyles to route those Vikings. And Goliath's plan wasn't to route them but to scare them off. He and Hudson were probably enough. Not that there wasn't a risk involved, but I hardly would call it arrogance.

Obviously it was the wrong choice, but only because the duo who suggested the "scare" tactic were in fact planning to betray the castle.

Response recorded on July 29, 2000

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Amethyst Delena writes...

Did you come up with, draw and design...etc. Golith?

Greg responds...

No. I can't draw at all, which Aimee and Jody's sketchbooks can now attest to.

Greg Guler did the orignal design for Goliath. This was adjusted by Mr. Takeuchi of Walt Disney Television Animation Japan. Frank Paur also had input into the final model. (I had input too, I guess, but not with a pencil, just a memo.)

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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brent writes...

if demona was evil and is evil than during the 900s in A.D. why did goliath love Demona if she was evil

Greg responds...

You're question assumes facts not in evidence.

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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Tk writes...

Does Elisa feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around?
Does Goliath feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around when Elisa is around?
EX: In " Double Jeopardy" When Thailog was talking about/to Elisa.
Thanks THats all For Now
Thank YOU

Greg responds...

1. Well, she doesn't feel cudly.
2. He's a villain who could put her at risk. What do you think?

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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Todd Jensen (repost by Aris) writes...

In your opinion, has Goliath ever told anybody about his "Future Tense" nightmare (beyond the very brief account that he gave to Elisa and Angela at the end of the episode), or is it just his and Puck's little secret, at the time of "The Journey"?

Greg responds...

I think he kept most of the details to himself.

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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Chapter XVIII: "The Mirror"

Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano

Arguably the best single episode of the series. The animation is fluid, dynamic and very strong. The writing is sharp, even quite funny over and over. And yet, dramatically the story is still potent. It really advances the Goliath & Elisa romance arc. Changes Demona permanently. And introduces Puck -- and by extension, the entire third race: The Children of Oberon. All in a mere 22 minutes.

It's also very gratifying for me. A bit of a vindication. As you may have seen from the memos I wrote to Brynne & Lydia, there was some considerable resistance to the notion that none of the characters would notice their own personal change from one species to another. Most of my collaborators thought the idea was way too complicated to pull off. I argued that it might seem complex, but in fact it would play cleaner on screen -- and funnier and more directly to theme. In my mind, another title for this episode could have been -- had we already not been using it for our Werefox episode -- "Eye of the Beholder", because all the transformed characters really noticed was when someone else was "OTHER". Being a monster or being "normal" was based on their point of view, not any objective look in the mirror. [As it is, the title is the kind I like. Simple, objective and yet metaphoric. At one point, it was titled: "Mirror, Mirror". But we simplified it even more.]

But anyway, when the human Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are confronted by "Gargoyles", the scene is an intentional mirror of the scene from AWAKENING, PART ONE where Brooklyn says, "If they think we're beasts and monsters..." Again, this is playing with the idea of "beasts and monsters" being merely in the eye of the beholder. The species have reversed, but the situation is exactly the same simply because the Trio remain in the minority. I suppose that's one thing that X-Men's mutants have in common with the Gargs. Both are a metaphor for being part of a minority. Feared almost automatically.

On the other hand, when Elisa is transformed, she believes that Goliath & Co. have been transformed into something like her. I think her immediate reaction is very telling about how she ALREADY felt about Goliath at that point. She's thrilled. She throws her arms about him. Now they're the same species. There's no impediment to their love. What's interesting is that if you stopped and asked Elisa under normal circumstances whether she would wish for Goliath to be transformed into a human, the answer would most certainly be "No." She knows that being a Gargoyle is fundamental to who he is. You can't change that without changing him -- and yet in that instant, in that unguarded moment, her desire to be with him overwhelms that rational knowledge. She's just happy.

At the museum, Elisa looks at herself in the mirror. She then moves, but the reflection holds. That was the idea of one of our board artists. A little clue that the mirror is magic. (It's not an animation error.)

Family Reactions #1

During that museum chase, my wife wanted to know why no alarms were going off. I figure Demona or the thieves just shut them off.

Erin didn't realize that that was Elisa dressed as a security guard at first. We were trying to withhold that information for a bit.

"Titania's Mirror", "The Children of Oberon", "Oberon sent me." We were laying groundwork to expand the entire series' base. But I don't know if back then I knew that much about what if anything I had planned specifically for Titania & Oberon.

Anymore than I knew then what I'd do with the "Dracula's Daughter" reference. But we try not to waste anything.

Coming up with that "Children of Oberon" name was a struggle. And so many people have asked me since whether or not Oberon is literally everyone's father, I almost regret landing on that choice. Our thought process is largely present in the episode when Goliath et al, go through various noms: Fair Folk, Dark Elves, Changelings, Shape-Shifters. Of course, at the time we were misusing the term Changeling. I think that was Odo's influence frankly, but I should have known better. I suggested "The Oberati". But the Reaves didn't care for that. I think they thought it sounded too much like an Italian sports car.

I do love the moment when Brooklyn cites Shakespeare's play as a sort of reference work on the Children. I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line. Did we?

I also love Hudson's line in response to Elisa's question: Are they real?

Hudson: "As real as I am, if the stories be true." It's full of delicious dramatic irony. If you can suspend belief on a bunch of gargoyles, then this shouldn't be a problem for you. I love things that work on multiple levels.

I also love Hudson's "Be careful what you wish for" line.

We were trying to show a bit here how Demona had managed to operate in the modern world up to this point. One of the thieves has clearly worked for Demona before without ever having laid eyes on her. Of course, showing Demona's M.O. here, was like giving it a swan song. Because after this episode, though she clearly doesn't realize it yet, her life is going to get MUCH easier. Being a human during the day is a great boon to all her scheming. I'm very curious about everyone's reaction to that? Shock? Amusement? I also tried to work very hard so that in that last two minutes of epilogue, everyone would get that she only was human during the day. I was very afraid that the audience would think she was permanently transformed into a human. Was anyone confused? Or was anyone surprised that Puck's revenge/gift STUCK? We wouldn't really explore the change until HIGH NOON. Had you forgotten about it by then?

Family Reactions #2
As Demona's casting the spell that will summon Puck. (Which I always thought was very cool, with the feather and all.)
Benny: "That's a magic mirror. Is Demona going in there?"
Erin: "Puck's gonna come out."

As I've mentioned before, during the writing of this story we figured out that Owen was Puck. So to play fair we dropped a hint here. Demona (who knows) says to Puck: "You serve the human. You can serve me." Puck changes the subject, replying "Humans [note the plural] have a sense of humor, you have none." This was done intentionally to distract the audience away from the hint we had just dropped. But obviously, in hindsight, it's a clear reference to Owen serving Xanatos. Anyone get it right off the bat? Anyone even take note of the line the first time? Originally, the line read, "You serve him, now you can serve me." With the "him" referring to Xanatos. But our S&P executive was afraid the "him" could be taken to mean Satan. I know that seems silly now. But keep in mind, we were very paranoid back then about the show being attacked for promoting devil worship. So we made the change.

Sensitive Broadway: "Maybe even love." It's a nice moment. Wistful.

Puck reminds Demona that the mirror isn't "Aladdin's lamp". At the time, the Aladdin series was still in production at Disney. So that's a bit of an in-joke.

And how about that: Demona is still carrying a torch for Goliath. On some level, she wants him more than almost anything. Yet she continually allows her hatred to get in the way. And the irony is, that at this point, pre-Vows it isn't yet too late for them. But her actions further serve to cement the Goliath/Elisa relationship. More now than ever before.

Puck/Brent Spiner is just fantastic. I love that "charming personality" line. And "You don't know what you're asking, believe me." And "I'll do EXACTLY as you asked." And "My mistake." And "A very long nap." He's just so rich.

Plus the boarding and animation on Puck is just great. As is the sound work that accompanies him zipping around.

I always wanted Puck to be the one character who could break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. Every time he appeared, we'd put a line or two in the script that was addressed to the audience. And every time, Frank or Dennis Woodyard would cut it out of the board. They didn't like breaking the fourth wall. (A lot of guys don't. I tried to do that with Max on Max Steel, but Richard Raynis and Jeff Kline wouldn't allow that either.) Oh, well....

Puck also establishes that Oberon's Children generally use rhyming spells instead of Latin or Hebrew or whatever. (Thus making life slightly -- but ONLY slightly -- easier on me and the writers.) But Puck isn't too formal: "Human's love a battle hearty, so does Puck, come on, let's Party!" Fun. (And I like Brooklyn's line, "Party's over." too.)

Family Reactions #3
When Elisa's transformed into a gargoyle.

Erin: "She looks cute." [I very much agree. Though I always wonder where her red jacket goes.]

Ben then asked why she was transformed.

Beth explained that Demona didn't want Elisa to be human anymore.

Erin then corrects my wife and explains that Puck is tricking Demona.

KIDS GET IT! Adults need to pay closer attention!

Goliath suddenly has lust in his heart:
G: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you were."
E (with a smile): "You mean you thought I was ugly?"
G: "Uh... careful! Updraft!!"
Man, that guy is smooth.

Anyway, that's one of my all-time favorite exchanges. I think it reveals so much. Somewhere underneath, Goliath has been attracted to who Elisa IS deep-down -- at least since AWAKENING, PART THREE. But he never thought of her as a potential love interest. He wasn't brought up liberally enough to think that way. After all, she has no wings, no tail. And those human shaped feet!

But suddenly, she's revealed as a FEMALE. Now, even when she goes back to being human, his perspective is permanently altered. Hers, however, is not. She's already consciously had those thoughts. Consciously rejected them. So at the end of the episode, he wants to discuss these (for him) new feelings -- but she does not. And the sun helps shut him up.
G: "That's not what I meant."
E: "But that's the way it is."
Another of my all-time favorite exchanges. (I'm really partial to things involving the G/E relationship. I know, I know, I'm a romantic sap.]

I also like the ongoing confusion. Elisa: "Everyone in Manhattan has been turned into... HUMANS!" Goliath: "No, no, no, no, no." And when the Gargoyles are changed into humans, Brooklyn is so sure that they've always been humans, it's funny. Like that moment in CITY OF STONE, when he's convinced that the "statue of Elisa" is a bad likeness of her: "They got the nose wrong."

FYI, there was an honest attempt, within the logical parameters of what our gargs looked like, to make their human versions resemble the actors who played them. Thus Goliath has darker skin than the others, because Keith David is African-American. (Though otherwise Goliath really looks like Conan to me.) The bald Lex has brown hair and the bald Broadway has blond like Thom Adcox and Bill Fagerbakke respectively. Brooklyn resembles Jeff Bennett but with Brooklyn's white hair instead of Jeff's blond. And Hudson looks like Ed Asner with a beard. More or less. Thom Adcox is the one who most looked like the human version of his character.

Cool little touches:

Demona nudges an unconscious Puck with her tail.

She continues to call Hudson, "Old Soldier". Her tenth century "name" for him.

Her line about the "gift of being a gargoyle". I love that superior attitude.

Lexington's "Fun, but weird" line.

Hudson wrapping the sheet over the mirror.

Elisa and Demona have a brief "cat-fight" as Gargoyles. Not quite as diverting as the one they'll have as humans in High Noon. But it was nice to put them on equal physical footing for a change. Let them have it out.

Demona mentions that Puck isn't too tired to make himself "invisible to the crowd". This was us trying to plug a hole in our story. We felt it would undercut the mob's reactions to our newly human heroes if they had the same reaction to seeing Puck. And yet Puck clearly looks more human than Gargoyle. More "other". So we slid that line in to avoid the whole problem.

FAMILY REACTION #4

Beth laughed at Hudson's very Scots reading of "No doubt about it." Which is pronounced more like: "No doot aboot it."

More sappy stuff (which I love):

Goliath's line: "I'll always be there to catch you."

Elisa completely forgetting her fear of flying in order to save the MAN she loves.

That brief moment when both Elisa and Goliath are humans at the same time.

Hudson's wistful line about seeing the sun, just once.

Although it had little to do with the metaphor, we couldn't really resist the notion of showing Bronx transformed into a dog. We picked the biggest dog we could think of, a Wolfhound type, though a bulldog might have been more reminiscent.

In the script, Demona smashes the mirror upon seeing her human reflection in the glass. But somehow the scene never got animated. So we added the sound of the mirror being smashed to the exterior shot at the end. This was important in order to give the story full closure. The initial point of the episode was to prevent Demona from getting Titania's Mirror. Structurally, therefore, I couldn't allow her to keep it.

But no fear, later we introduced Oberon's Mirror (clearly part of a matching set) in THE GATHERING, PART ONE.

I wonder what all those Manhattanites thought when suddenly they realized they were all barefoot.



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