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In "Long way till Morning", Goliath says that they can't keep Demona imprisoned, and he won't consider the alternative. By the enf of hunters moon part 3, would Goliath consider the alternative, now that he knows what Demona was capable of? To what extent would he consider it, taking Angela into consideration?
I honestly don't believe that when push comes to shove that Goliath could ever kill Demona. Ever. Unless you want to get WAY hypothetical on me. (Which you all know I don't particularly enjoy.)
I'm not sure if this was ever asked but did Angela tell her Rookery siblings that Demona was her mother, If so where they in shock about it?
Well, they didn't really know Demona, except as that garg who attacked them while under a spell. So it held less significance from an "oh my god, Demona!" standpoint.
Also, I'm sure they all have mixed feelings about the whole biological parenting thing. I'm not sure that Angela did tell them that Goliath was her biological father. That would seem too much like unseemly bragging. (So maybe for that reason alone, she didn't mention Demona either.) At any rate, they all would have thought of Goliath and Demona as Clan Parents.
Back again,
Do think Goliath likes James Joyce or William Faulkner? Just wanting to know 'cause I am trying out DUBLINERS, and I always have difficulty reading ABSALOM,ABSALOM! and, after three attempts, can never get past the third chapter! ARGH! I had an easier time with SOUND AND THE FURY. OK, thanks.
Goliath loves Shakespeare and Dostoyevski. I also love Shakespeare, but have trouble with Dostoyevski. I also LOVE Faulkner and have some trouble with Joyce. It suggests that Goliath's tastes are a bit more mature than mine.
Which is a long way of saying, Yes, he likes both.
Gargoyles mate for life. Does that mean that once two gargoyles show interest in each other, and become intimate, that they've mated, and are officially forevermore monogamous?
If so, what happens if, over the years, the two gargoyles come to drift apart, or realize they have nothing in common? Do they stay together simply because of tradition? I take it there's no gargoyle equivalent of divorce. (Or at least there wasn't until Goliath and Demona kinda set precident).
And in that vein; should a gargoyle have an affair, then what happens if that affair is discovered? Does the unfaithful gargoyle and the one he/she had the affair with get banished from the clan?
Hope this hasn't been asked before.
Gargoyles mate in both sexual and ritualistic fashion. After that they GENERALLY (and that's the key word) remain monogamous.
They imprint upon each other biologically, and there are strong ties of custom to discourage a split. Affairs, I believe, are quite rare.
But as you noted, sometimes things don't work according to plan. Iago has clearly imprinted on Desdemona, though she is imprinted on Othello and he has imprinted on her.
Goliath and Demona imprinted upon each other, but maybe as a result of a thousand years, that imprinting didn't last. Goliath has clearly imprinted anew on Elisa. (BTW, I'm not sure I'm using the word imprinting correctly. I know it's generally used for babies to imprint on their mothers. But it's the closest thing I can think of.)
So there are issues of both biology and custom that discourage anything like divorce or cheating. But that doesn't mean it NEVER happens.
In the Gathering, part 1, how did Goliath feel, upon returning, when Elisa called Broodway "Big Guy"? Why did Elisa use Goliath's nick name on Broodway? I'm not to conserned, just curious.
"Big Guy" is Goliath's nick name?
Hello Mr Weisman!
First of all, congeratulations on such a great show, it's the best cartoon I've ever seen, I've loved it since I was a kid!
Just a quick question. I asume that Demona eventualy finds out about Goliath and Elisa's relationship. How does she feel? I always thought that she retained feelings for him - despite her best efforts - and there's the fact that she probably hates Elisa more than anyone else alive.
When you outlined the space spawn/Samson/2198 or something storyline, there was no mention of Goliath and Elisa ever having children, grandchildren etc. I know that biologicaly speaking, there was very little chance that it would ever happen (unfortunantly), but I always thought that they would find someway of adopting. You don't have to say if you don't want to, but Goliath and Elisa without kids is heartbreaking. They would make such wonderful parents! I know that they would help raise the clans children, but its not quite the same is it? I mean Goliath has taken up the role as sole parent to angela, and Elisa is human anyway. Please give me hope!
Anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to rant on for so long. I need my gargoyles fix.
Good luck for the future.
XXX
Thanks, Stacey.
You'll worry less if you stop thinking like a human. There will be plenty of children. And Goliath and Elisa will be parents to them. I've discussed them having their own children before. Hinted at it. Check the archives if you want.
As for Demona, I don't think this will come as news to her. And she already doesn't like it.
At some point at the Gathering, I overheard you telling some lucky fan or fans when Brooklyn learned to read. I was dashing off somewhere, probably trying to chase down Kanthara again (whom I finally caught on Monday-- Hi Kanth!), and I didn't get to eavesdrop on the whole thing. It sounded fascinating, and like part of a larger question about which gargs learned to read when. I sure wish I knew the answer, and I'd bet money that your other faithful readers want to know too. So...
We know when Hudson and Braodway learned to read-- they started right after "Lighthouse on the Sea of Time." When did the other members of the Manhattan clan learn to read?
Thatnk you for your time and I hope everybody pre-registers for the Gathering 2002-- I did!
Thank you, Mary. I believe Brooklyn learned to read shortly after awakening in the twentieth century. I believe Goliath learned from Demona in the tenth century. I believe Demona learned from the Archmage. I believe Lex learned in the tenth century too. Angela was taught by the Magus.
(Lots of fun tidbits always get revealed at the Gathering.)
Who is your favorite character in the garg universe? assuming u have one.
I don't. Goliath is the prism through which the universe was recreated. But I love 'em all. Even the bad guys and the nobodies.
Will we ever meet the biblical Goliath?
Sure. He'll be at Virgina Beach, next summer.
Hello Greg!
I loved the show, especialy the Goliath/Elisa story. But I have a question, I heard that gargoyles age at half the rate that humans do. Would that affect Goliath and Elisa's relationship as the years whent on?
(Oh yeah, and just a daft one...do gargoyles shave? Hudson is the only one with facial hair of any description, I just wondered...)
OK. That you very much. How are you today?
Some gargs shave, some don't.
And yes, the difference in their age rate would of course effect their relationship. But I'm not saying how.
Last night I was watching 'Hunter's Moon, Part II' on Toon Disney. Since it's definately one of my favorite episodes, I tried to spot all the stuff I'd missed when on previous viewings. I was delighted by what I found!
It was in the scene right after when Elisa gives Angela CPR. In a short time afterwards dawn comes. What I noticed was that just before they turn to stone, Broadway moves beside where Angela is lying and takes her hand. It was happening in the background and no attention was called to it, but I thought that was incredibly sweet! I really loved it. Was that another hint that Broadway and Angela would end up together? If it was, it was a VERY nice way to do so. :-)
Another question about Hunter's Moon, Part II: When Goliath is just outside Elisa's window, seeing all that happens within (My original reaction to Elisa and Jason was *GASP!* "OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO OHMYGOD, NO!" So on and so forth), could he hear what was being said? I couldn't tell.
And I'd like to take a brief moment to say thanks for creating a show with characters that can endear themselves with little background actions and that make me care SO MUCH that its hero gets the girl!
1. Yes. As soon as Gary Sperling and I decided (while working on Turf) that Broadway and Angela would wind up together, we tried to show their relationship building -- in subtle ways.
2. Yes, he could hear. But in Soap Opera fashion, he left before he heard it all. To our credit, even the stuff he missed wasn't exactly equivocal.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
When Goliath found out Puck was Owen, or owen was puck, whey didn't he persue the matter of whether Future Tense was a dream or a profossy?
What's a 'profossy'?
Seriously, did the timing seem right to you?
And at any rate, G's not a dope. He knows he'd never get a straight answer from the Puck.
Goliath asks the Magus to turn him to stone because now he is "truly alone" as he said. Granted he did lose all of his current friends but didn't he know that there were other gargs in scottland? And he said they eggs were about to hatch, so why didn't he stick around for them?
To put it unkindly, he was suicidally depressed. He needed intervention in a big way. Fortunately for Hudson, Bronx and the Trio (not to mention Elisa) he didn't get it.
Hello Greg!
I fist saw the show back in 1994 when I was nine years old and I've been a fan ever since.
I love the Goliath/Elisa story line - its the reason why I fell in love with the show. Just a few questions that have been bugging me...
1) I know that this is just a hypothetical (hope I spelt that correctly) question - please indulge me - but if Elisa had been alive in 994, who would Goliath have chosen to be mates with, Elisa or Demona?
2) I'm not trying to be crude, honest I'm not, but can Goliath and Elisa have sex? And would they plan to try it?
Ok, thank you in advance.
1. Probably Demona. It took extreme circumstances for Goliath to look at Elisa in that way. Doesn't mean his heart didn't go out to her sooner. But his head needed some catch up time.
Having said that, I'm not too fond of hypotheticals.
2. There are many ways for two adults to express their love and give each other pleasure. Eventually... eventually... they would experiment.
This is something that I should be posting later, ideally, since you haven't yet gotten to the Avalon World Tour episodes in your ramblings, but I finally decided that I needed to let this out of me soon, so I'm doing so now.
I've noticed, over the years since I discovered "Gargoyles" fandom on the Internet, that many people didn't like the Avalon World Tour for various reasons (the length of time, the absence of Hudson and the trio, the focus on myth and fantasy aspects rather than more "mundane" elements like crime-fighting, etc.). On the other hand (while I may have had my moments of wondering when Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx were going to get back to New York), I quite liked the World Tour. To a certain extent, I'll admit that I'm biased - my tastes naturally run towards fantasy/myth elements. But after doing a little thinking on this one, it increasngly struck me that, aside from all that, something of the nature of the Avalon World Tour was a must for "Gargoyles" at some point.
The reason for this is that the World Tour served a very crucial purpose (besides the general one that you mentioned of expanding the "Gargoyles Universe"). It made it clear that Goliath, his clan, and Demona weren't the only gargoyles left. And that was a crucial step. Because if they really had been, the gargoyle species would have been almost irrevocably doomed to extinction, with only seven members left, only one of those seven a female, and that one estranged from all the rest and very unlikely to reconcile with them. Goliath and the others would have been the "last gargoyles", not only in the sense of being the only ones left, but also in the sense that no new gargoyles would come along after them.
If that had been the case, it would have obviously made a rather depressing series. Admittedly, having the main character be the "very last of his kind" wouldn't necessarily be utterly melancholy - Superman is the very last Kryptonian, and his story's an upbeat one, on the whole. But the situation there's different; Superman's alien origin is treated more as a plot device to explain his abilities, so his being "the last of his kind" doesn't appear quite so melancholy. Goliath and his clan's "gargoyleness", however, was treated in the series from the start as a crucial part of them and their very nature, rather than a similar handy plot device to allow them to serve as effective protectors of New York. And also, it was clear enough from the start that an important part of the series would be the gargoyles seeking to make peace with humanity, to overcome the fear that so many humans view them with. Such a quest would have been futile (in a sense) if they were the last of their kind - the understanding on humanity's part of the true nature of gargoyles would come too late to avert the race's extinction - the best that the gargs would be able to hope for in such a situation was that they might be able to live out their last years without the general human population hunting them down, but still aware that there would be no new gargoyles after them. Not very happy.
So there'd obviously have to be gargoyles living in other parts of the world to ensure a future for the species. And Goliath and his clan would have to come into contact with those other gargoyles for the audience to see that they weren't the last. But the clan's situation would make that tricky. For one thing, there'd be the obvious transportation problems - they can't simply hop aboard the next plane bound for London or Japan. And given how secretive gargoyle clans would obviously have to be in modern times, even if Goliath and Co. had a mundane means of transportation to wherever it was that one of these clans was living, they would certainly not be likely to find out about these other clans easily. The only solution to both questions that wouldn't feel contrived was magic - as in the magic of Avalon that sends you where you need to be. That way, Goliath could be brought to the locations of the clans in London, Guatemala, and Ishimura in a convincing fashion.
So I think that the Avalon World Tour was indeed a practical must for the series, to allow the crucial moment when the clan can learn, as Hudson put it in "The Gathering", "We're not alone. We're not the last."
Hey, pal, I'm with you.
From moment one, we wanted to present an OPTIMISTiC world view, that mirrored Goliath's own. (Not that he hasn't had a bad moment or mood or two.)
The World Tour was a necessity from that stand point for all the reasons you stated.
Plus it was a necessity given some of my future plans. 2198 immediately comes to mind. But there was other stuff too.
Sorry Matt for picking on you I was just joking any question time.....
Greg you said earlier that Talon would get upset when his sister takes Goliath to be her mate. I was wondering why would he get upset over his sister's choice about the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with?
Think about it and get back to me.
Between Goliath and Broadway, who would eat more food? I'm guessing Broadway, but I'm sure Goliath would have to eat a lot of food himself.
I'm not big on quantifying these sorts of things.
do you think it is possible and likely that Goliath and Iago are close relatives biologically, like cousins perhaps? they just seem pretty similar compared to most gargs... the black hair, the purple wings, etc.
i'm sorry, i know how you hate questions about bilogical garg relatives... but i had to know!
I'm glad you put that in the past tense.
Otherwise I'd be worried that this response would upset you.
At the end of "Temptation", Elisa tells (commands?) Goliath (under the spell) to always act as if he was not under a spell. I'm assuming this means for all spells and not just that particular one he was under. If this assumption is correct, how would Goliath be affected by Puck's spells in "The Mirror"? I want to say there are other times he's been under a spell, but I haven't seen too many episodes on Toon Disney yet (I just got the station) and I'm cursed with a poor memory.
You're assumption is incorrect.
She didn't (couldn't) give him full magical immunity. She didn't have that kind of control. She simply ordered the slave to act FOREVER as if he wasn't one.
What were your plans for Goliath and Angela ?
Extensive.
Hi Greg
Ok now am I too assume correctly that when the 78 ( 39 biologically) year old Brooklyn returns from his dances he is stronger than he was when he left right? I mean he had been fully grown by that time and plus the perils of the dance could cause for a greater need to thicken up.
So the big question,
Can the (39) year old Brooklyn hold his own or maybe even win in a fight against the (29) year old Goliath?
Thanks
Why would they fight?
you said that Iago decieved Othello and Desdemona in 993 and that he was banished after that, but he came out of his banishment in 994, in time for the massacre. is all that right?
why was it such a short banishment?
how do gargoyles decide on how long to banish a clan member?
does the whole clan decide the banishment time/punishment or just the leader?
was Goliath in effect banishing the trio but only lightly when he sent them to the rookery or was that a common punishment for young gargs?
That's basically right.
The banishment was for a year, which isn't that short considering he didn't kill anyone. He was just causing trouble. (Whispering in Othello's ear, causing Othello to act like a jerk isn't that big a crime, I guess.) Also, Iago may have done something to get back in everyone's good graces. At least begrudgingly.
The leader makes the final decision.
He wasn't literally banishing them. Sort of telling them to sit in the corner. It was not an uncommon punishment. But it was mostly done just to temporarily difuse things while he was gone for what he assumed would be a short errand.
How did Goliath come to get his name, and when did he get it? Thanks
During the Dark Ages. A human named him. That's all I want to say right now.
just watched "Possesions", one of my favirote eps by the way, anyway, i thought of a few questions...
1. ok, is it me, or does Lex hate Coldstone? the whole clan doesn't like Iago, but Lexington seems to hate Coldstone in general... in "Legion" he trys to convince Goliath not to invite Coldstone into the clan, or back to the clocktower and that was before they knew about the other souls in Coldstone, in "High Noon" he warns Goliath about freeing Coldstone, this time his concern was justified, but in "Possesions" Lex really seems to hate Coldstone, when Coldstone first arrives Lex screams his astonishment at Coldstone being brought to the clocktower by "Goliath" and "Hudson", then he seems to be the most skeptical about "Goliath's" plan, and then he is the only one not to volunteer for the soul transference. so, am i right? does Lex have a major problem with Coldstone? is it jealousy, i mean, does Lex wish he was as integrated with technology as Coldstone is? "Future Tense" comes to mind...
2. why does Puck keep trying to make Xanatos look evil to the gargs? in "Future Tense" his illusion of Xanatos is pretty nasty, and in "Possesions" Puck goes on about how Xanatos is about to unleash new robots and he is not sincere about oweing Goliath for helping to save his son, obviously Puck doesn't believe these things, but why try to make the gargs believe it?
3. any reason that Iago/Coldsteel didn't have a tail (either in cyberspace or as a robot) in "Possesions", but did have one in "Legion" and "High Noon"?
sorry for the lengthy questions...
1. No. I don't think so. I just think he's very aware of Coldstone's potential danger to the clan.
2. He's simply playing to Goliath's weaknesses.
3. I never noticed that. Are you sure?
I know you dislike hypotheticals, Greg, but maybe you'll find this one as acceptable: If Angela wasn't traveling with her father, meaning if she and Goliath were not biologically related, would she have even wondered who her parents were? Thanks.
---Ytt
I doubt it. It was Sevarius' DNA report that got her thinking about it. And she didn't raise the question right away. It just began to build in her mind.
On the other hand, I think it wouldn't have taken her too long to start looking at Goliath as a father figure. And in fact (biology aside) he was one of her clan fathers. And really, the only one she was likely to ever meet. (With the possible exception of Coldstone.)
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