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Lis M writes...

"Hello, Greg! I love the show Gargoyles and have been a fan for many years. I've read the Ask Greg from top to bottom and I haven't found the answer to this question: What exactly was Goliath feeling when he saw Elisa and Jason kissing? In my opinion, the episode made it look like Goliath seems to forget about it too easily even though he doesn't always let his feelings out in the open..." What do you think, Greg? And thank you so much!"

Greg responds...

He was DESTROYED!!

I honestly don't know how you can look at that episode and not realize that. Soon after, he runs into Brooklyn & Lex, and he's in a major bad mood. A Demona-esque bad mood. It extends right through to the scene at the dam in the next episode. Look again. I think you'll agree.

Response recorded on December 15, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

hey greg heres a question. when did goliath found out that he had feelings for elisa?

Greg responds...

I don't think he realized it until "The Mirror". But I think his feelings for her existed as far back as "Awakening".

Response recorded on November 18, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Why don't we see Goliath laugh or smile more often? Is he too serious or too sad or is there another reason?

Greg responds...

Well, he's not a laugh a minute kind of guy. And I think the fact that he doesn't laugh, tell jokes or even smile all that often makes the times when he does stand out. Have more value.

But also, in general, I would like to loosen G up a bit. Hopefully, someday, I'll get the chance.

Response recorded on July 19, 2004

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Gemini_Bloodian writes...

Sadly,Even though Ive watched almost every episode I keep forgeting.Who was Goliath's second in command after Demonia?I mean I eventually find it oout hten I forget it.

Greg responds...

Goliath had no official second-in-command between the massacre and the episode "Upgrade". (One could argue that Hudson acted as his second in an unofficial capacity.) In Upgrade, Goliath chose Brooklyn as his second.

Response recorded on July 15, 2004

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VAMBER writes...

Does Avery Brooks do the voice for Goliath? If not, then who?

Greg responds...

Keith David is the voice of Goliath. (Keith can currently be seen as the Imam in "Chronicles of Riddick".)

Avery Brooks did the voice of Nokkar the alien for us.

Response recorded on June 28, 2004

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Forliya writes...

hey,Um, I'm wondering if you could tell me how many gargoyal
cronicals are thear? because I'm embarresed to say that I'm in love with goliath. I know its stupid but I cant help it.Oh by the way can you tell me who dose the voice of goliath ? because it goes by so fast on the credits I cant read it on the screan!

Greg responds...

We made 65 episodes of "Gargoyles" over two seasons.

They made a third season, 13 episodes, called "Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles". I wrote the first of those 13, but had no real involvement beyond that script.

And the voice of Goliath is the amazing Keith David.

Response recorded on June 21, 2004

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Babs writes...

To answer Anons question, I know some (plz do corrected me if I'm wrong so I can correct myself)
1)Brooklyn - is 19 years young, 6ft tall and wingspan 6 ft, day he weighs about 210 lbs. , night alot more
2)Broadway - 19 years of age, 6 ft tall, wingspan about 16ft, day time weighing in at a even 2 tons, night I don't even wanna think about it.
3)Lex - 19 years old
(I'm a tad bt out of thier age range)
4)Golaith - I think 29 years old
(Within better age range for me, he's just a few older than I)
5)Hudson - Hatced in 878 A.D., you do the math and get back to me on that one.
6)Bronx - not that old at all
7)Demona - If you know that would also help me, because I have no clue and if I'm wrong I don't want her hunting me down.
Gargoyles Forever !

Greg responds...

Anonymous asked for the ages at the time they were cursed. So my numbers are more accurate.

And I don't stand by those weights at all. Frankly, I'm not even sure about the wingspans.

As for Demona, she hatched at the same time as Goliath.

Response recorded on June 15, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

I know that the Clan was frozen in stone for 1,000 years, and I am also aware that Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans, but approximately how old was each of the Gargoyles prior to being cursed.

Greg responds...

I've answered this before, but...

The first number is the character's actual calendar age. (The second is their approximate human biological equivalent.)

Hudson 116 (58)
Goliath 56 (28)
Trio 36 (18)
Bronx 16 (8)

Response recorded on June 15, 2004

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Babs writes...

Me again :), lemme get one more question on before i head off to work.
1)Does Goliath still feel anything for Demona , or is he just filled with hate for her ?
danke
I liked that female clone , I think if she lived her and Brooklyn would have made a great pair.
Gargoyles Forever !

Greg responds...

1. Goliath's feelings (and he has many) for Demona are decidedly mixed.

I have other plans for both Brooklyn & Delilah.

Response recorded on June 14, 2004

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Brad676 writes...

Will Goliath and Elsa get further into there relashiship

Greg responds...

Yup.

Response recorded on June 04, 2004

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Katalina Darkheart writes...

Hi Greg,
So I guess i'm in a way sort of a...um.."new" fan of gargoyles...i used to watch it all the time when i was younger but i guess i just had other things to do...but i'm watching it again now...way kul show dude...but i wantedto ask you...since i'm new and this is bugging the bejeepers out of me....does Elise Maza and Goliath ever put aside their differences and like wed r something?...i know i shuld continue watching the series....and i will try to watch it as much as i can...but disney likes to rerun them and they're not always in order...and now that i'm older unlike when i was a kid i have more responsibilities such as work and school that keep me from being able to watch it so i'd be extremely grateful if u'd fill me in on that subject...oh and heheh..Happy Birthday...may-b if i send it now it might reach u sometime around there...or if not merry christmas ^.^...heheh...see ya..

Greg responds...

Disney is actually pretty good about airing the episodes in order. Of course, we didn't get to tell all the stories we wanted to. I only worked on 66 episodes and they did 12 more after I left and that's it.

So the short answer is, no, Goliath and Elisa do not get married by the end of the 66 or 78 episodes.

What happens in the future is another story.

Response recorded on April 27, 2004

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julio writes...

GREG THE SLAVE SPELL THAT DEMONA DID ON GOLIATH IT WONT WORK ANY MORE RIGHT BECAUSE DEMONA SAID IT WAS NOT FOREVER SO IT MUST BE OVER RIGHT

Greg responds...

Demona said it was not forever? When?

As far as I know, it doesn't work because, (a) Elisa commanded Goliath to not let it work and (b) the page that was used to control Goliath was destroyed so that no one could countermand Elisa's command. Technically, I believe the spell is still in force.

Response recorded on April 14, 2004

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Cleo writes...

Who is Demona's and Goliath's parents?

Greg responds...

Don't know yet.

Response recorded on April 08, 2004

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kate oxford writes...

I was wondering does Golith have a grandson ? Did I hear right or am I just making it up?

Greg responds...

He will someday.

Response recorded on March 16, 2004

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April Currier aka Golden Claw writes...

Gooden! I've passed this place before many times and thought this time i should stop and say a few words.First off I love Gargoyles! Elisa and Goliath even got # 1 spot for fave tv couple.Beating out Mulder and Scully!
the show is sadly missed,but i will always have my tapes! Thanks!
now for the question:
1. What color is Goliath's hair? is it black or brown???? i think it looks better black,but sometimes it appears brown????

Greg responds...

I think it's largely black. (At least it is in my mind.) But it has a brown tint to it.

Response recorded on December 16, 2003

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Jen writes...

Greg
i was wondering if golitah & elisa ever become a couple

Greg responds...

Have you seen "Hunter's Moon, Part III"?

or said another way...

Define "couple".

Response recorded on December 04, 2003

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Mooncat writes...

Hello Greg,

The subject came up in the Adult comment room on the Gargoyles Fan Website, on wether Goliath and Elisa would ever be able to become mates. Physically.

So the main question is, can they become mates, in a physical sense, without physically harming Elisa?

How well endowed is Goliath (beneath the loin cloth)?

How well endowed are Brooklyn, Broadway, and Lex? Yes, inquiring minds want to know *^_^*. If not exact sizes, some general indication would be appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time to consider the question.

Mooncat >^,,^<
and the peeps in
the Adult Gargoyles Comment Room

Greg responds...

I think of Goliath (and all the gargoyles) as being proportional. So that would make him fairly well-endowed by human standards. I have no doubt that Elisa and Goliath could become intimate, but I do have some doubts as to whether they could engage in intercourse without harming Elisa physically. But there are of course, many ways to become intimate short of intercourse.

Response recorded on November 06, 2003

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Gus Gustafson writes...

Does Goliath have any biological brothers or sister? If so then how many and what sex?

Greg responds...

Odds are he had one or two (but no more than that). The odds of them still being alive are fairly slim of course. But I try not to think too much like a human and emphasize biological siblings over rookery siblings.

Response recorded on October 23, 2003

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Kim writes...

Settle a bet, will goliath and elisa ever hook up?

Greg responds...

Define "hook up".

Response recorded on October 17, 2003

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Gipdac writes...

1a) Did Goliath know Jon Canmore and John Castaway were the same person? b) Did Elisa?

Greg responds...

1a. Not at the time of "The Journey".
1b. Ditto.

Response recorded on October 08, 2003

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FanForLife writes...

I was wondering, when exactly did Goliath actually admit to himself consciously that he was in love with Elisa? Actually said to himself, "I love her?" Was it at a specific moment in the series, and if so what scene/episode? Thanks!

Greg responds...

That's a darn good question. I'm sure he hadn't figured it out by "Sentinel". It might, in fact, have been in "Hunter's Moon, Part III" after she returned from the dead. Maybe right after the Praying Gargoyle was smashed. Or maybe after he returned to the castle. It wouldn't surprise me if it was as late as that.

I'd be eager to hear what all of you think on this question.

In any case, he certainly knew by "The Journey".

Response recorded on August 22, 2003

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Vanity writes...

Greg:
This question or line of thoughts may be dismissed by many as hindsight or 'if party "A" knew that party "B" would have acted as such party "A" would have/not done what ever they had done, or something else entirely.
That being said I am not interested in mere allocations of ideas or energy as it is parted to its situation(s). But rather the logical processes which make it happen. (not why did "X" do this instead of this, but how did "X" come to believe that what he/she did was what he/she wanted done in order to further the cause of or to accomplish the objectives of his/her agenda. Even when other noticeable paths of achieving that endeavor where evident and obvious.

--Case point--
-Demona--most irrational
-episode-Temptation--enlightening

Demona not by magic or trickery was able to persuade Brooklyn to believe that humans were bad for gargoyles. How? Through persuasive speech mixed with vived illustration, preying on the emmotion, and excellent visual situations highlighting her position.(the murder, troubled household).
1) she has Brooklyn to the point where he will steal the magic book and lie to Goliath.

Knowing that she has plenty of time in the world to accomplish her goal of a human-free world, why did she rashly cast a 'wierd-spell' on Goliath?
When I first saw this episode age 12 or 13 I had myself thought I knew what she was doing, I was wrong. I easily recognized then her potential ability to persuade the other impressionable minds of the clan with simmilar illustration and glib of tongue. (Lexington's encounter with the Pack) With the help of Brooklyn, "subverting" the clans' mind with tongue not sword.

Still, had she not wanted to wast the time and energy in that long term process she still could have stalled on her plan to 'open Goliath's eyes' why not study the book find a more meaningful spell. Since I do not know exactly all the power held in its pages I cannot give an example, however; I am sure there would be one in there somewhere.

Or even use this oppurtunity to find other usefull information, Brooklyn as a 'double-agent'.

When in the situation present without the liberty of hindsight, I know that what we do is what we do, but again I stress that I am not interested in her decision, cast a 'wierd-zombie' spell fine. Why? "Open Goliath's eyes". So we are here again at the point where all the preperations for planning will eithere pay off big time or backfire. In planning though she must have decided that it would be easier, faster, better to cast a wierd spell than to expend her resources into other side projects ultimately perhaps harvesting a greater chance of sucess through diplomatic channels and patient subversion. This is where I need your help. I reason that she must have chose to cast the wierd spell on Goliath so to accomplish her objective more quickly. Why does she reason that speed is the best way to accomplish her plans?

If it was not just speedily accomplishing her goals that motivated her irrational behavior then what was it?

Greg responds...

Well, I think most would agree that Demona is her own worst enemy. She is extremely intelligent, but also extremely passionate, and she often, often lets her passions rule her brain -- though she rarely, if ever, admits to that.

She may have justified/rationalized that speed was the key. She may have justified/rationalized that Goliath posed such a huge threat both physically and as a "corrupting influence" on the clan that he needed to be dealt with immediately.

But I don't think it was any of that.

I think she was mad at him.

I think she felt betrayed.

I think she wanted vengeance.

I think she wanted to feel superior to him.

I think she wanted to justify all the damnéd choices she had made over a thousand years.

I think she took personal satisfaction out of turning him into a plaything.

I think she made a big mistake.

I think she threw away an incredible opportunity, as you outlined above.

Just my opinion, though.

Response recorded on June 18, 2003

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Stephaneus writes...

Hi Greg Happy New Year all

Vanity(don't you mean Gruouch??)

Know this is about Awakenings (which I think is the best episode in the whole series). Goliath caught Hakon's sword. What is the deal. Hudson's little dagger in Long way to morning cut a statue in half. But Hakons double edged long sword could only scratch Goliath. He's tough and rugged but come on now. And I really loved Hakon's reaction "Fight men they're not invincible" If that isn't invincible what the hell is? Why should Goliath even dodge weapons they just bounce off anyway?

Why did you let that happen? Catching a sword without it even hurting him seriously at all!!

Super Stephaneus

Greg responds...

I don't know what you're referring to vis-a-vis Vanity/Gruoch...?

As to your Awakening question, Hakon's sword did hurt Goliath. Cut down to the bone. He just toughed it out. Cuz he's Goliath. That's who he is. You expected him to cry?

And Hakon's sword could certainly cut THROUGH bone. But he would have needed to put more power behind the swing to do that. Given his position on that tower, Hakon did the best he could, but it wasn't good enough, and Goliath's been in enough fights to know what he can and cannot take. He stopped the blow with his hand before it could gain enough momentum to do serious damage.

What Hakon saw, before he spoke his line, was the Goliath's blood. We made a point of that, and even convinced our S&P exec to let us show the blood. Which is very rare for cartoons. If Goliath had been invincible, there would have been no blood. And the sword would have bounced off his hide. Which it didn't. Weapons don't bounce off our gargs.

Hudson doesn't have a dagger, by the way, but a sword. And a lot of Gargoyle muscle behind his swing.

And you, Super, have a lot of attitude, bordering on disrespect. Just so you know, it's really off-putting.

Response recorded on June 17, 2003

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Vanity writes...

In Hunter's Moon on the Hunter's airship when Goliath and Demona reaching for the laser rifle was he going to shoot her.

Greg responds...

I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I can't recall the scene at the moment. Odds are he was simply trying to keep the weapon away from her.

Response recorded on June 11, 2003

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Artemis writes...

This isn't really a question, but rather a corrective comment.

Obviously Goliath wouldn't know, but I don't know about you, but Thailog is NOT Goliath's son. They are brothers. Until I went to a genetics seminar with my AP bio class, this would never have crossed my mind.

Anyway, to the point. The reason Thailog can't be Goliath's son is because of genetics. Thailog's genes came from Goliath, which in turn came from Goliaths parents. Now, therefore, technically Thailog has the same parents as Goliath (since all his chormosomes can be traced back through Goliath's parents).

There's more to it that, but I wanted to keep it it terms understandable. Another simpler way to make the argument is that since Thatilog has the same genes as Goliath, they're sort of like identical twins, born years apart (and of course identical twins are siblings of each other). It's the same with the labrynth clones as well, they are bothers of the gargs they were cloned from.

Delilah is a whole different story. I can't explain that one, but i guess she's a half sister to both Elisa and Demona, but I can't prove it genetically.

Sorry if I seemed to have a "you're wrong, I'm right" attitude, but I just wanted to let you know what the real world truth was. Now Gargoyles Universe truth, well, I can't tell you what's right and wrong, that's for you to decide.

Thanx for listening to my lecture :)

Greg responds...

Actually, I found this post very interesting and informative. It doesn't change the emotional reality of how Thailog and Goliath feel about each other. But it's good to know. And I appreciate -- greatly -- that you weren't trying to make me look foolish, just filling me in on an obvious gap in my knowledge.

It's over a year since you posted this, so I don't have any idea if you're still hanging around. But Thank You, Artemis. It is appreciated.

Response recorded on June 05, 2003

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Peter Mason writes...

Anonymous writes...
The Weird Sisters had Demona and MacBeth steal Coldstone so Goliath wouldn't notice the disappearance of the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and the Grimorum and so he wouldn't go looking for them, but what I don't understand is why were the Weird Sisters afraid that Goliath would go looking for the talisman? I mean he'd never find them considering that the Sisters would have taken the talismans to the Archmage on Avalon where Goliath could never reach them.

Greg responds...

But Goliath did reach them, so the potential was there.

In fact, one could easily argue that the Archmage's greatest mistake was delaying for Goliath's arrival.

recorded on 10-17-01

Are you saying that the Sisters through their connection to fate foresaw the possiblity that Goliath would come to Avalon and had MacBeth and Demona steal Coldstone to try to prevent it from happening?

Greg responds...

Not that I'm disagreeing -- because your not off the mark -- but I think you're overthinking it.

Goliath presented a potential threat, so he was misdirected.

Response recorded on April 03, 2003

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FanForLife writes...

Hi Greg. Just wondering--was the part in the Journey where Goliath went to see Elisa the first time the two talked or saw each other since the kiss at the end of Hunter's Moon 3? If not, when did they first see or talk to each other after the kiss? Thanks!

Greg responds...

Elisa and Goliath kiss on the morning of October 27, 1996.

Goliath goes to see Elisa just after Midnight on October 29, 1996.

I find it hard to believe that they didn't see each other at all on the 27th or 28th. But it's very possible that they had no time alone to discuss what had happened.

Response recorded on February 14, 2003

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Corrie "Cormak" McDermott writes...

Hi Greg,
I have some questions about Goliath and Elisa.

1. You've said that Goliath started falling in love with Elisa pretty early on. And that he fell in love with her before he even understood how attractive she was physically. By Elisa's reactions in various episodes it seemed that she knew he was falling for her and she tried to deny the truth for a while. Not only his feelings but hers as well. Obviously by what happened in Hunter's Moon I , II and III she realized that she was in love with him and she let him know. Did she fall in love him because of the way he has protected her and his personality?

1a. Did she find him attractive physically?

1b. or both?

2. I've read your comments that Elisa and Goliath would realize that their relationship before it really started was impossible and they would date members of their own species, possibly at a Halloween party. Would this party have been the first time they dated since the breakup?

2a. Also would it be at this party that they would both realize that they still loved each other?

2b. or would that have been later on down the road?

3. Does Elisa know that Goliath was watching her and Jason in her apartment? (Hunter's Moon Part II)

3a. If not, would Goliath ever tell her?

Greg responds...

1. Well, I think Elisa probably thinks he's good looking too, but yes, it's who he is inside that really attracts her. In my opinion, anyway.

1a. I think so.

1b. Both, yeah. I gotta start reading ahead.

2. I think so. But it's not a party so much as a night out. At least in my mind.

2a. Yes.

2b. I don't think they ever stopped loving each other, but they tried to let logic and reason dictate their feelings. By the end of this Halloween adventure, they'd realize that it was pointless to supress their feelings. Certainly unfair to their dates.

3. Not sure. Don't think so.

3a. It seems unnecessary now.

Response recorded on January 30, 2003

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Chapter XLII: "Sanctuary"

Time to ramble...

This episode was directed by Dennis Woodyard, written and story edited by Cary Bates.

The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I thought initially that we'd be even more focused on the Cathedral. That we might play a Quasimodo character. Heck, if Disney's "Hunchback" movie was going to have living gargoyles bouncing around, then I could have a Quasimodo swinging from the bell-ropes.

But the story, thank goodness, rightly evolved into a family drama with Goliath, Elisa, Angela, Demona, Macbeth and Thailog (and Bronx) providing us with one very ODD family. Quasimodo went away in favor of Thailog.

And we had to work a bit to make sure the thematic idea of the heart as a Sanctuary worked its way into the picture. Thank God for that French minister, eh?

During the "Previously..." recap the following exchange was heard between my eight year old daughter Erin and my five year old son Ben, after Angela learns (in that scene from "Monsters") that Goliath is her biological father:

Benny: He IS her father. He laid the egg.
Erin: Girls lay eggs.
Benny: His wife laid the egg.

ROMANCE

Enter, for the third time or the first (or, depending on your point of view, maybe this one doesn't count either), Ms. Dominique Destine. She tells Mac, "We have all the time in the world..."

This for me (and I know for Bond expert Cary) was a very memorable line from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." And always a good sign that a relationship is going to come to a bad end.

Elisa tips her hand, which she can do cuz no one is awake, about how she really feels about Goliath here. "The most romantic city in the world and Goliath isn't awake to share it with me." (Or something like that, all quotations are approximate.) That's what she'd like to do, I'd wager. Soar over Paris with G. the way they soared over Manhattan in "Awakenings". Now had he been awake, do you think she would have made that request? Or would she in fact be distancing herself from him simply BECAUSE she had that impulse?

After her adventure on the Loch, it's nice to see Margot on a pleasant little stroll through Paris.

THE GARGOYLE WAY

Why is Goliath so resistant to parenting Angela? After all, though they're really more like younger brothers, he does his fair share of parenting the Trio.

He falls back on "The Gargoyle Way", but that's certainly inadequate, as Diane Maza will later point out. Yes, he's only one of her rookery fathers, but he's (a) the only one there and (b) the only one left alive except for the two souls trapped inside the AWOL Coldstone.

Ultimately, I think the answer is that Angela's sudden obssession with her "BIOLOGICAL" parentage makes him nervous because of the obvious extrapolation to what comes next. If she's obssessed with me as Daddy, then what happens when she learns who Mommy is?

And that's the key. He's divorced Demona. His wife who laid the egg. It took centuries and months, but after "Vows" he moved on. Now he sees Demona as a nemesis. A painful one to be sure, but a nemesis none the less. He's afraid of what the knowledge will do to Angela. He's afraid of what Demona will do with Angela, should Angela share that knowledge. And is he perhaps afraid of what -- under Demona's influence -- Angela might become?

THE CATHEDRAL

There's some nice animation in this episode -- but none of it is at Notre Dame. That sequence put us through fits in retakes and editing. Ugghh. It's still painful to look at.

But there's some nice stuff going on...

Demona says: "In here my love." to Goliath before she realizes its not Thailog. What did you all think of that line? At this point we had only seen one silhouetted monster from a distance. And since you knew Demona was in town, we intentionally tried to lead you to belive that she was the Monster at Notre Dame. Were you expecting Thailog? Or did you think that Demona was addressing G as 'my love'?

Goliath's arrival is a shock to her, so what did you think then?

Then Thailog's arrival is supposed to be a bigger shock to you guys. Was it?

I love hearing Thailog say: "My angel of the night."

Demona has a good line too: "Jealous and paranoid."

Later, we set up Nightstone Unlimited and their two "human" identities, Alexander Thailog and Dominique Destine.

At this point in production, we knew that Fox was going to have a baby but we had not named it yet. I couldn't think of a better first name for Thailog and later I couldn't think of a better first name for Alexander Xanatos. At first this bugged me. But I began to realize it made perfect sense. Xanatos had programmed his "first" son well. If X would pick Alexander, why wouldn't T have picked it as well. And there's something so symmetrical about both his kids being named Alexander.

TOURISTS

Elisa sits at a french cafe talking out loud to herself. Ugh. Very awkward. Obviously, we couldn't come up with a solution we liked better. I'm sure it occured to me to do it in voice over, but just chucking a V.O. sequence in the middle of an ep is very awkward too. Suddenly, the movie is POV Elisa, and we weren't doing that here. (Cf. "Revelations" and Matt's VO narration.)

I do like her last line though, coming as it did from a long time Superman scripter, Cary Bates: "This is a job... for the Gargoyles!"

THE WEDDING NIGHT

We had Macbeth use the Lennox Macbeth name instead of Lennox Macduff because we thought it would be too confusing to give him an entirely different name to any new viewers. And it makes sense that he has multiple aliases. But it still bugs me and I think in hindsight, I wish we had just been consistent.

Demona kicks Macbeth into unconsciousness, and Erin asks: "Why didn't she get hurt?"

And that's a very fair question. As usual with D&M's Corsican Brother connection, we tried very hard to be faithful to it, but it was very hard. And we wound up being a bit inconsistent. The best I can suggest is that when Demona knows she's going to hurt M and it isn't just on impulse, she can more or less steel herself against the magical feedback. It's still painful. But she doesn't show it as much.

The Gargoyles wake up and Elisa says: "Look alive, guys!" Well, they do now, don't they?

I love how Thailog slips Mac the gun and then later yells at Demona, "Didn't you search him?!" He's an evil genius that one. And passive-aggressive too.

Thailog's plan is brilliant, I think. So elegant. So simple. And if not for Elisa, so effective.

Mac's suicidal tendencies resurface. Demona's legendary temper gets the better of her common sense.

Thailog really comes into his own in this ep. Sure, Xanatos said he may have created a monster, but now Thailog has outsmarted X, D and M. Who the hell is left to outsmart?

And he has some great lines too:

"You and what clan?"

"Teamwork is so overrated."

"Aren't you spunky?'" (Another Lou Grant reference of course.)

To be fair, he couldn't immediately know that Angela was blood kin, but still doesn't his reaction to her give you the creeps? When X says Angela is lovely in "Cloud Fathers" I don't think anyone thought he was being salacious. But T? Yeah, baby.

Of course, Goliath finally gets the picture after this one. Up to this point, he was thinking Demona's the lost cause but maybe Thailog is salvagable. Now he knows better. At least about T anyway.

BATTLE

There's a lot of water in that water tower. It looks cool though. The animation here makes up for the Cathedral stuff.

I love Goliath's two-handed punch.

I love Demona's punch-drunken sway, as she makes her move to, as Mac says, "put us out of our misery..."

But I've always wondered why the background painters put multiple pictures of Elisa on the wall of Macbeth's chateau. Odd, that.

When I was young, I used to love MASH, particularly back in the Wayne Rogers days. (And, yes, Wayne is a friend of my dad's now. But they didn't know each other back then so I was unbiased.) But one thing that used to drive me nuts was the repetition of the following exchange:

<LOTS OF SHELLING IS ROCKING THE HOSPITAL. SUDDENLY, IT STOPS.>

Hawkeye: Do you hear that?
Someone else: Hear what?
Hawkeye: Silence! The shelling's stopped!

This was fine the first time they used it. By the twentieth time it got VERY old.

But we do a version of it here after Elisa shoots Demona ending the battle.

Why? When it used to drive me nuts? It's amazing what I'll pay tribute too.

KEITH meet MR. DAVID

I love playing Thailog against Goliath, because I love those Thailog/Goliath exchanges where Keith plays both roles. That's one of the main reasons we created Thailog. To enjoy listening to Keith go to town.

1st Epilogue:

Goliath: "She has done you a favor, Macbeth."

That line should be a bit of a shock when G first says it. But it makes a lot of sense after he explains. And I love the look that Goliath and Elisa share. They aren't even pretending they don't share those feelings. They just won't act on them.

And how about Goliath actually telling a joke: "Just make sure you get a good look at her at night." Word.

2nd Epilogue:

One of the things I like about our series is we didn't have to end each episode the same way.

This one ends rather darkly. Goliath won't acknowledge the obvious. He just broods. Angela turns to Elisa: "Elisa, I have to know." And Elisa confirms that Demona is Angela's mother, because it's ridiculous to either lie or to not confirm the obvious that Angela has already figured out. But she knows G didn't want A to know that. So everyone is left unhappy as we sail into the fog.

And Erin ends the episode saying: "I think Elisa should be her mother."

(Me, I've always seen them sharing a more sisterly relationship. But I thought Erin's idea was sweet, and certainly came out of the sexual tension between E&G.)

Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?


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Stacey writes...

Dear Mr Weisman.
Hey there. Hope you had a nice holiday.
I was wondering when it was that you actualy thought up the idea for the garg universe? I mean, did it just pop in your head on day or had it been there for a while?
Also, was there any 'plan' to the story. Was there always going to be a Goliath/Elisa thing? Were the Rookery eggs always going to be on Avelon? Was there some kind of planning towards it?
I know this is probably incredibly sappy but its been killing me ever since I saw that episode...what WAS Goliath going to say to Elisa at the end of 'The Mirror'? Ok, for a start, it wouldn't have been much because he knew that the sun would be up soon. And all the clan were around. But what would he have actualy told her - sworn absolute undying love? Admited that he liked her a bit? I know its a stupid question, but its a lovley scene. Also, what were they like with each other the next night? I guess they both knew what he meant (even if I don't).
Okay, thats all for now. Thank you very much.

Greg responds...

Stacey,

It's been so long since you posted these questions (last October) I'm going to assume that you've already got the answers since all of them are available in the archives.

But just in case, and briefly.

I've been fascinated with Gargoyles since high school at least, but the series was developed by my team at Disney between 1991 and 1994.

Yes, we had a plan. G&E was planned. The eggs showing up on Avalon (or some equivalent) was planned..

I'm not sure that Goliath had the exact words on the tip of his tongue. (This isn't like Titania whispering in Fox's ear.) I think he would have tried to stammer something out about his growing feelings for her. But it would have stopped far short of "declaring his undying love".

Response recorded on August 21, 2002

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Chapter XXXVIII: "Heritage"

Time to ramble...

This chapter was written by Adam Gilad. Story Edited by Gary Sperling, and directed by Frank Paur.

FAME

As I watch each episode with my family, I've got my journal open in front of me to take notes for these rambles. During the opening credits, my five-year-old son Benny said: "I like Gargoyles." I was very pleased, of course. Then he said, "Can you write down that?" So I did. And so I have.

SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT

Back on the skiff, and Elisa still hasn't QUITE gotten the idea. She still anticipates being back in Manhattan. Like visiting Scotland was an anamoly, but now surely Avalon will send them home. (What did you all think at the time?)

And boy, that girl likes her hot dogs. Make her one with everything, you know?

A.K.A. CECIL

Our Sea Monster attacks. It's a cool design, based on research that we did. (It happens to look a lot like a pre-historic whale I saw last night on a Discovery Channel special: "Walking with Pre-Historic Beasts".)

I wish we could have found a less generic name for the creature than "Sea Monster". Thunderbird is a cool name -- particularly since I have fond memories of the L.A. T-Birds from Roller Derby telecasts of my youth -- but our research never turned up another name for the Sea Monster.

Keep in mind that though we did research, we also had time constraints. We couldn't keep researching a topic indefinitely. Eventually, we'd have to use what we had and run with it in order for the story and script to be delivered on time.

But I know Gary and Adam did quite a bit of backgrounding for this story. The Sea Monster, Thunderbird, Raven and Grandmother all came from Haida stories -- though we conflated quite a bit, I think. We did always try to be as true as possible to the history and legends we were riffing on.

HEY, WEREN'T THERE FOUR OF YOU?

As the battle with the Sea Monster came to a close, my seven-year-old daughter Erin said: "What about Elisa? Where's Elisa?"

Five seconds later, Goliath surfaces and says pretty much the same thing, before fearing her drowned by shouting "ELISAAAAA!!" (Shades of things to come -- in Hunter's Moon III.)

TOTEM POLES

Speaking of research, the origin of the whole episode was the fact that Totem Poles caught my eye as being a particularly gargoylesque deal. Then we did some preliminary research and found that they weren't carved in anything that seemed to resemble a gargoyle tradition. They were 'carved to honor animal ancestors'. So rather than stretch (or abuse) the truth, we decided to let the characters (and audience) be lured off course by the poles, just as we had been.

Fake GARGOYLES, right here in North America.

In many ways, I think it could be argued that what takes place in this episode is handled or covered in other episodes to come. We have another episode with a 'sea monster'... a more famous sea monster in a certain loch... coming up rapidly in "Monsters". Also in that ep, one of our cast is lost and feared drowned after an early attack by that monster. And much of Nick/Natsilane's dilemma is also re-covered with a more-important recurring character (Peter Maza) in our other Native American-themed episode: "Cloud Fathers". We even do more with a volcano in "Ill Met by Moonlight". On some level I suppose I regret the duplication of efforts. I don't think we usually did this sort of thing.

But I don't regret the episode. I had plans for Raven. Plans for Queen Florence Island. Plans for Nick/Natsilane. I still think the ep has some cool stuff in it. And I think we NEEDED to cover Totem Poles. It was a natural.

HAR with a V. VAR with a D.

I went to a high school in North Hollywood, CA named "Harvard High School". Named after the University. (Some people have incorrectly stated I went to Harvard for college. But I went to Stanford for Undergrad and U.S.C. to get my Masters.)

I don't remember who's idea it was to have Nick be a graduate of Harvard. Might have been mine. Harvard of course is useful as a symbol.

I like Nick/Natsilane. He's got some nice attitude here and a nice shift. Maybe not the most impressive of our so-called "International Heroes". But very likable.

I give a lot of credit to the voice actor for bringing him to life. Gregg Rainwater was brought in by our Voice Director Jamie Thomason. Gregg was terrific. We used him again in Cloud Fathers, but I've used him many times since Gargoyles. I've even written parts with Gregg in mind. He was Jake Nez in Max Steel. And I cast him as Jake MacDonald in 3x3 Eyes. He always brings incredible humanity to a part, I think. Heroic, but real.

THAT'S NOT A CROW

It's a raven. Our second Trickster makes his first appearance. Of the four (Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote), Raven was the guy we gave the most evil bent to.

I like all the shape-shifting he does. (Though when he flees at the end, I wanted him to flee in his bird form, not his Raven-Goyle form.) I also like how he lies by using pieces of the Truth.

Raven-Goyle: "There is an evil sorceress named Grandmother. She summoned the monster that you fought."

When he said that, did you believe him?

Of course, Grandmother does have magic power and she did, in a way, summon the Sea Monster.

IT COULD BE WORSE. I ONCE LIVED ON 28TH STREET.

While doing our research, we encountered names of Islands off the Canadian coast like Queen Charlotte Island. So I named the fictional island we'd be using "Queen Florence Island."

Growing up in Woodland Hills, California, I lived on Queen Florence Lane, a street off Queen Victoria Road. Victoria and Florence were the daughters of Michael Curtiz, the director of such films as CASABLANCA. Curtiz, at one time, owned all the property in that area, so he named the two streets after his daughters.

OR so I once was told... by a ghost named Humphrey who tried to convince me that he was Humphrey Bogart, though you could tell by looking at him that he wasn't.

WHO EXACTLY IS THE SICK ONE HERE?

Elisa is so strong so much of the time, that it's kinda sexy to see her vulnerable and feverish.

Notice that Grandmother doesn't use Fairy magic to heal Elisa. She uses Haida medicine. Thus the rule of non-interference is bent not broken.

I like when Nick comes back in and the Fever's broken. And he says just don't tell me you cured her with tree bark.

When she says, "...and roots." His expression is priceless.

SEEING RED

I like the lighting in the Volcano scene.

Goliath is so glad to learn that other clans have survived, that he doesn't notice -- in fact defends -- the inconsistencies in Raven's story.

Angela, on the other hand is suspicious. This was done, in part, to further develop her character. She's naive about certain things. Having been raised by humans, she's not inclined to judge them harshly or fear their prejudices. But she's not stupid. Something doesn't smell right and she notices.

For once, Bronx though does not. I chalk this up to the high quantity of magic being tossed around on this dying island. Grandmother is not what she seems. Neither is Raven. Bronx is confused.

Anyway, Goliath speaks to Gargoyles protecting to explain away why "Raven's Clan" can both hate humans and protect them. You get the sense that he understands all too well. Like despite everything, there's a part of him -- a prejudiced part -- that hasn't forgiven the human race for what happened at Wyvern. (Also keep in mind, he was just at Wyvern again, rehashing all those old memories.)

Of course, once Goliath learns that Raven was pulling something, he's furious at the trickster. Playing on his hopes AND his prejudices, Raven has risked G's wrath.

At the end of this scene, the three silent gargs vanish magically.

Erin said: "What happened? What just happened?"
Benny said: "How did they just vanish?"

They know I know the answer. But I resist telling them. It's a touch cruel. What did you guys think?

YOU CAN TAKE THE GIRL OUT OF THE CITY...

Elisa is such a New Yorker. Everything is compared to that. "This sure isn't Central Park."

Anyway, Raven, then a bear, then Bronx and finally Angela and Goliath find Elisa. I love Goliath and Elisa's hug. It's so unselfconscious. They were so worried about each other that they forgot the usual distance that they maintain.

SUSPICIOUS MINDS

So who did you trust? When the gargs disappeared, that had to indicate that something was up with the Raven-goyle.

So when Goliath tells Elisa that Grandmother is a sorceress, particularly given that Grandmother saved Elisa's life, we all tend to think that G's been duped. Then we spot Grandmother turning into Thunderbird. What did you all think then?

Benny noticed "her ears" and suspected her even before she turned into T-Bird.

THAT'S GOTTA HOIT

A cool moment in the battle against T-Bird is when Goliath rakes the creature with his claws.

Then Angela spots the Illusion. And plays it cool with Raven.

I like Goliath's line to Grandmother: "We live. We do not thrive."

Grandmother than establishes that Raven is a Trickster and that they are both "Children of Oberon". Thus we establish that aspect of our series.

She states that they are forbidden from directly interfering in human affairs. Reinforcing what the Weird Sisters said a few episodes before.

Raven joins the party. The jigs up, but he revels in it. He's got a few decent lines too.

I like "It's so messy."

POOR HORATIO, ALWAYS A BRIDESMAID, NEVER A BRIDE

Elisa more-or-less quotes Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Natsilane, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I've always loved that line.

Anyway, Goliath and Angela depart to fight Raven. They arrive first, but given the fact that Nick had to...
1. Have a final change of heart.
2. Change clothes.
3. Get up to the volcano without wings.

...He makes good time, don't you think?

Raven brings the totem beasts to life. This was always a bit weird. We introduce illusion gargs based on the totem beasts. But then when we bring the totem pole to actual life (or semblance) we have new designs for the woody creatures.

Does everyone see Goliath play dead for that bear?

Raven has a nice exit line here: "This place no longer amuses me."

Neither does this Ramble.


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Chapter XXXVII: "Shadows of the Past"

Time to ramble....

This chapter (episode) was brought to you by:

Director: Kazuo Terada
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Story: Michael Reaves
Teleplay: Michael Reaves & Brynne Chandler Reaves

Plus the usual suspects, including Frank and me.

The title is one of Michael's. I had the impulse to shorten it to "Shadows", but I didn't.

THE WORLD TOUR

As the recap ended and Tom shouted out: "Avalon doesn't take you where you want to go. Avalon sends you where you need to be!" My seven-year-old daughter Erin said, "Uh, oh."

"Uh, oh," indeed.

And so we begin Tier Four in earnest. Our quartet of travelers weren't headed straight home. Of course you couldn't know at that time just how long they'd be gone. And frankly when we started writing, neither did we.

It wasn't just the quantity of episodes (23 counting the Avalon three-parter, Kingdom, Pendragon, The Green and Future Tense) that we'd spend before everyone was reunited in Gathering One. It was the reruns in between.

What was supposed to be a five week trip became a five month trip. And so, for many of the fans it became interminable.

Why all the reruns? Well, the schedule finally just caught up with us. When Gargoyles was picked up for a second season by Buena Vista, I was asked how many we could reasonably produce for the fall quarter (between September & December of 1995) without interruption.

I told them that we were prepared to do six more. That was all the scripts that had been ordered (Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Beholder, Vows). But I said we could do 13. We had done 13 the first season with a ten month sliding schedule. Now we had just under twelve months so we could certainly do 13 again.

I was asked what's the most we could do. I said, well if we start right now we can do 18.

Not 52? They asked.

52? Are you nuts? (Well, I didn't say that exactly.) I said we'll never get 52 done for the fall quarter. We'll wind up with a lot of repeats. You (Buena Vista) will not be happy with all those repeats.

They were disappointed. So disappointed, that instead of ordering 18, they only ordered six. (If we can't have 52, then forget it. [Okay, they didn't exactly say that either, but that seemed like the basic attitude.])

So we get to work to do six. Two weeks pass. Buena Vista comes back and says. No, do 13.

We respond with, uh, okay. Of course we've lost two weeks, so it'll be a bit harder, but we can do it.

Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "No, do 18."

We grumble a bit, because now we've lost a month of prep time when we could have been building crews, etc. But okay, I said we could do 18. We'll manage.

Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "Do 52."

Now we balk. We warned you we couldn't do 52 in twelve months. Now you want us to do it in 10? It took us ten to do 13.

Do 52.

And so we did. We built multiple crews. Our staff increased exponentially. We expanded to four writing teams from one. We expanded from one pre-production team (in Japan -- waves at Roy) to three and a half (one in Japan) and two and a half here in L.A.

And we worked like little demons to bring you 52 for the fall quarter. But it was never going to happen.

We wound up doing pretty good. I don't have my old calendar in front of me, and I can't remember exactly how many we managed to air in the fall, but it was considerably more than the 18 that I thought we could do.

But it wasn't 52. And so we had reruns. And reruns. And reruns. And most of those reruns came in the middle of the World Tour. And thus... yes... it seemed to go on forever.

Whoops. Sorry.

Of course, other people didn't care for it for other reasons. They felt it got away from the series strengths of the gargs in Manhattan. Obviously, it left behind four of our characters, and I'll admit that I underestimated the trio's popularity a bit.

But I felt it was important. The World Tour gave our series breadth and hope. It expanded the Gargoyles Universe, added many new characters and in particular added at least four other clans of gargoyles.

And I think some of the stories really kicked ass.

So I apologize for nothing. NOTHING, do you hear me, nothing!!!!!!

Except for that outburst. Sorry about that outburst.

WYVERN, SCOTLAND

Anyway, our first stop was no place new. Goliath immediately recognizes the ocean cliffside as "home, my home."

Even before Hakon and the Captain start to drive him crazy, his dialogue is laced with nostalgia.

He's so into being back in Scotland, that when he climbs the hill, he doesn't even take Elisa with him. Elisa goes with Angela. Which is no big deal. But usually, G's more of a gentleman than that. Particularly with Elisa.

TIDBIT

Angela: "It was always summer on Avalon."

Just wanted to give a sense of things on the fair island. Seemed to fit the legends as well.

TOKYO, JAPAN

I can't say enough good things about the animation in this episode. It's just gorgeous. The work of Disney's studio in Tokyo. WOW! Production AND Pre-Production was done there. All sorts of little touches, like Elisa slipping briefly and regaining her footing. And GREAT, GREAT character animation. Great lighting as the characters enter the tunnels. STELLAR effects animation in the megalith chamber. Just wow gorgeous stuff.

And boy, did we fight over this episode. [Roy, I'd love to get your perspective on this.]

When we got the storyboard from Japan, Frank and I each found something that just drove us nuts.

For Frank, it was the Wyvern cliff. The castle was gone, of course, as Xanatos had taken it away. But the cliff seemed to otherwise remain in tact. Frank was adamant that a chunk of the cliff had clearly been taken away and was part of the Eyrie Building. You could see it on that design. So obviously, we needed a crater of sorts to exist back at Wyvern.

When Frank pointed it out to me, I agreed with him. It didn't bother me as much as it bothered him, but I agreed.

What bothered me was Elisa's parka. In the storyboard, Elisa was wearing a parka with a hood. Of course, she looked great in it. And it kept her warm and safe and dry. But there was of course, no way and no place where she could have acquired that parka. (The Avalon Eddie Bauer, maybe?) So I insisted the parka had to go.

Frank agreed with me after I pointed it out. It didn't bother him as much as it bothered me, but he agreed.

So we gave Japan both these notes. And to our surprise, they balked. They felt that the only changes we were allowed to make to their boards were S&P changes.

We couldn't believe it. Finally, they relented. But on the cliffside ONLY. They felt that was a fair compromise. Since that had been Frank's BIG note, he was appeased. But obviously, I was not. All sorts of people came to me asking me to back down.

But I wouldn't. And I can honestly say it was for you guys that I refused. I knew even then that OUR FANS paid attention. That we couldn't get away with Elisa suddenly having a warm coat from no where.

So I put my foot down, and Elisa stayed cold and wet.

And our Tokyo Studio had another reason to be annoyed with me.

I regret the tension, certainly. But I still think I did the right thing, so I apologize for NOTHING, DO YOU HEAR ME? NOTHING!!!!

Except for that outburst, I apologize for that outburst.

GASLIGHT

A great movie. A husband tries to convince his wife that she's going insane. It's now a staple of melodrama everywhere. And we used it too.

So the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain try to gaslight Goliath.

We tried to gaslight the audience a bit too. Tried to let them think for a bit that Goliath might just be losing it. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, maybe.

You can hear it in Goliath's voice. How he's lost in the past. Angela tells him that he did the right thing all those years ago by saving the Princess.

His only response: "Still, I wanted revenge." I love Keith David's reading of that line.

But we also wanted to play fair, so we dropped a hint: when Goliath hears Demona's voice, Bronx howls. He senses something. Always trust Bronx.

Bronx has a pretty important supporting role in this, btw.

THE AXE OF HAKON

When Goliath and friends first enter the caves, Goliath picks up an old Viking axe. Hakon's Axe. The one he uses in "Vendettas".

Should have been a mace by the way. Should have been the same mace you can see in the opening titles EVERY episode. The one that Hakon used to smash the gargoyles at Wyvern.

Shoulda been. My fault.

Okay, for that -- I apologize. I screwed up. Dang.

THE STREET PIZZA TRADITION

a.k.a.

A CLASSIC MICHAEL REAVES' ELISA LINE:

"This place is creepier than the morgue at midnight."

Michael was great at giving Elisa this tough contemporary feel without taking us out of the moment.

Another good one: "Old wounds bleed as bright as new ones sometimes."

GETTING TO KNOW ANGELA

When Goliath pretends that he's NOT freaking out and having hallucinations, Angela can tell he's lying.

I love Brigitte's read there. She sounds SO SHOCKED: "He's not telling the truth."

You can tell she was raised in a world where there was little cause for lying.

COOL CLIFFHANGER

Goliath attacking Elisa and Angela, thinking they are Hakon and the Captain.

Very dramatic. And again, we don't know yet, objectively that he isn't just going nuts.

What did you guys all think at this point? Did you suspect the truth?

Anyway, Bronx saves the day.

And Goliath runs off. He also has a nice stumble here. Again, parka aside, much amazing attention to detail and character in all this animation. Stunning.

STAR TREK INFLUENCE

No, I'm not talking about the voice cast.

Finally, we objectively reveal that Goliath is being influenced. We see two floating entities hovering over the scene. He doesn't see them, so they're not part of his dementia. Ergo (I don't have much opportunity to use the term ergo you know), ergo, they must be what is causing this.

Of course, they look like energy beings right out of Star Trek.

We also see Demona, Othello and Desdemona.

More of us playing fair. Sure they're identifiable. But of course, they (plus Iago) would be the souls LEAST likely to be haunting Wyvern and Goliath.

SALLI RICHARDSON

Yeah, Keith was the star. And we're always going on about Jeff's versatility. But we really were blessed with an amazing cast right down the line.

Salli does Elisa SO DARN WELL. It's the little things really.

Like when Angela explains about the fissure and how Goliath could die in it. Elisa says, "Swell." Just, "Swell." In one word, she says everything that needs to be said. It's hard. Try it sometime.

SPEAKING OF FISSURES

Bronx saves Goliath (temporarily) from falling by chomping down on his arm. Always thought that was cool. Would have liked to have drawn some blood, but we knew we'd never get away with that.

And the fissure itself is way cool. I love Goliath's fall.

And Elisa's determination, as she starts to climb down feet first. And I love the contrast, as Angela and Bronx, by virtue of their claws, climb down head first.

THE TURN

Some fans have felt, I know, that the Captain's change of heart at the end comes suddenly. That may be so. It's hard in a mere 22 minutes to achieve these arcs and turns. But as usual, we tried to drop subtle hints that he wasn't fully on board with Hakon.

Hakon is enjoying tormenting Goliath.

The Captain says: "Make an end to it." Hinting at his ambivalence. Torturing Goliath doesn't give him pleasure.

And while we're praising voice actors, how about a toast to the late Ed Gilbert, voice of the Captain of the Guard. Wonderful work here. Evil. Tortured. Redeemed.

Ed, wherever you are... THANKS!

THE FATAL FLAW IN YOUR PLAN

Demona. The Captain must have assumed that Demona died in the massacre. He and Hakon figured that her appearance would be the coup de grace. That Goliath's will would just dissolve when faced with her ghost.

They were almost right. But of course, G is no idiot. A bit slow sometimes, but not stupid. Demona's ghost shouldn't be here. Cuz the dame ain't dead.

[By the way, the idea to have her fist morph into a mace was mine. Just a little post-storyboard tidbit that I suggested amid bitching about the parka. They must have liked the idea because that wasn't one I insisted on, but they did it anyway. When push came to shove, everyone -- on both sides of the ocean -- was just VERY dedicated to making the show better.] [See. It's a mace because that's the weapon that we associate with the Massacre. Hakon's axe should have been a mace. How did I miss that?]

Anyway, Goliath figures out the truth and, hey, we've awakened the sleeping giant. He trashes the phony Demona. And we think he's going to smash all the others.

But something even more chilling happens. They all begin to dissolve around him. It still gives me the creeps. Very cool animation AND music and effects. (Props to the gang at Advantage Audio too.)

HOW

Or rather how come we don't have ghosts hanging around ALL the time. I didn't want this episode to open a spectral floodgate, where any character that was killed or had died in the past was available to haunt us.

So the Captain offers two possible explanations: Hate and Magic. Both present in ample supply. Plus Guilt. His guilt. Unfinished business.

THE DANCE

Again, very cool effects on the Megalith's here. But the idea emerges from an old (if not very original) idea I've had since I was a teen. The notion that Stone Dances, that Megalith Circles were like Medieval Mystic Dynamos. Circles of power. That build and generate.

Really came to life here.

I love Hakon's line: "I can feel it. I can feel again." I love that transition halfway through the line between where he can feel that the process is working and when he realizes the simple fact that he can feel things again.

But again, watch the Captain feel his own hand. You can see the ambivalence there. Particularly when Goliath becomes the Ghost and Hakon is beating on him. Cap doesn't participate in this.

And Goliath helps him remember what he has forgotten. The Captain doesn't HATE Goliath. His problem is that G's presence has reinforced his own guilt.

But here's an opportunity to redeem himself: "I can't let this happen again!"

He pushes Hakon back.

Hakon: "You've crossed the lines of power, you fool."

You can almost here the Ghostbusters say, "Don't cross the streams."

RESOLUTION

So Cap hated himself, not G.

G forgives. He forgave the Magus last episode. Now he forgives the Captain. Shows that he's a pretty decent guy.

You think if Hakon made an effort? Nah.

Anyway, I like G's line: "One enemy. And one friend."

And then a positively angelic Captain returns briefly to say goodbye and thanks. I also like the "shackles of hate and guilt" line. And the way he calls Goliath, "Old Friend".

Elisa thinks she's in for a long story.

G: "Centuries long."

And as the sun rises, and Elisa -- as usual -- leans against her stone beau for a nap....

Hakon: "Don't leave me here alone!! Not without anyone to hate!!"

Many people think I should have left him there forever. But evil doesn't rest in peace in my opinion. When left alone it tends to get out of control.

Besides I already had this fun idea. What if Wolf was Hakon's descendant?

Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?


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GOLIATH AND DEMONA: A RESPONSE

Here's another post I just know I'm going to regret. But I can't seem to help myself.

Mooncat, please don't take this personally, but I think you're viewpoint on Goliath's "shallow" love for Demona is misguided.

Let me make a few parallel changes to illustrate my point.

1. Let's say both Goliath and Demona were humans.

2. Let's say Goliath was a woman named Gina.

3. Let's say Demona was a man named Dan.

4. Let's say that instead of taking place atop rooftops and castles, these events were taking place in a two-bedroom house in suburbia.

5. Let's say that instead of using laser bazookas and the like, Dan was simply using a baseball bat. Or his fists.

Now take your scenario. Once upon a time, when they were young, Gina swore undying love for Dan. They got married. Spent years together. Even had a daughter together. There may have been hints along the way as to Dan's troubling nature, but Gina ignored those hints. She still loved Dan.

But, hey, sometimes things change. They go from good to bad to worse. Now Dan beats her. He hurts her. He's tried to kill her more than once and has nearly succeeded. He runs off. Shows up again, and behaves the same way. He has successfully killed other people in cold blood. Sometimes Gina reaches out to him. Sometimes he pretends to be good. And hey, he never, ever hurts their daughter. But he always winds up hurting Gina again. I can't tell you how many times Gina has been taken to Sunrise Hospital for treatment. Well, I could tell you. You could count for yourself, I guess. But once is too many, and we both know it.

Whatever oath Gina took once upon a time is, as I see it, moot. No one should stay in an abusive relationship. I wouldn't want my daughter to do it. I wouldn't want my son to do it. And I wouldn't want Gina or Goliath to do it either. To not respect Gina for moving on with her life given Dan's behaviour, is IMHO kinda horrendous.

Now I'm not saying Dan is Satan. He may have a decent side to him. He may have taken some hard knocks himself, maybe even as a child. He's certainly lonely as hell inside his own skin. All mitigating factors. Certainly Dan needs help. Would benefit from counseling. But to put that all on Gina's shoulders, the VICTIM, is beyond unreasonable. Love is NEVER enough in these situations. You may feel that Goliath didn't make a big enough effort, but you weren't the one being shot at. (And my comment in the CR about how maybe Goliath looked for her between episodes, was way beside the point as well.)

Personally, I have tremendous empathy for Demona. Not mere sympathy but empathy. I feel that there but for the grace of God, go I, more often than I care to admit. But empathy or sympathy doesn't cut it. She's committed cruel and violent (murderous) acts against other living beings.

And to use your own example, if Elisa went "Dark" and Goliath had to chose between saving her and an innocent. I'd hope he'd save the innocent. I hope that's the kind of guy he is. That he does the right thing, no matter how personally painful.

And if you think what happened with Demona wasn't personally painful for him on every level, then I failed as a storyteller.


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Shan writes...

Greg said:
In fact, Goliath's initial reaction to Thailog is not to form a bond. It's to call him an abomination. (You blithely skipped over that, Shan.) Part of what follows is a bit of guilt mixed in with him taking responsibility for Thailog as a parent.

As to Angela, you've again missed his initial reaction to her on Avalon. It is clearly one of paternal pride, just as he is proud of Gabriel and all of his children.

Shan responds:
You're right on both counts. I do remember having fallen asleep and just woken up in time to see the "Double Jeapordy" episode. Probably thought I remembered more than I really did, both about what I had just seen and Angela's situation. Lousy excuse though. I really should have researched better before asking a question of such an involved level (re: attempting to compare Thailog and Angela).

Greg responds...

No biggie. Glad you're interested.

Response recorded on November 29, 2001

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Shavri writes...

In the episode, "Future Tense," didn't it ever--disturb you looking back how Demona and Brooklyn were a couple? I mean, I see Goliath as a father to Brooklyn(even though G's only 10 garg years older). It wouldn't be right for a son to date his father's former wife/girlfriend. It would be downright disgusting. Yick! If my mother was single, I could never, EVER go out with a guy that has dated my her--even if he was around my age. Would you? And to make the B/D relationship concept/idea worse, Demona had been with THAILOG before she'd been with Brooklyn. Talk about hand-me-downs. Wow, that would be quite a marketing idea. I could just see it now: "Come on down and get the all-new 'Hand-Me-Down Demona' action figure! As a bonus you get to choose between Goliath, Thailog, or Brooklyn as her perspective "partner!" Heh heh! Demona would have a different outfit for which ever pairing you choose. Heh! Anyway, I'm just glad the whole thing was a dream-sequence scheme created by Puck and not something that would actually happen in "your" Gargoyle Universe.

Greg responds...

Well, first off it was intentionally done for shock value to freak Goliath (and our audience) out.

But to be fair, I don't see Goliath as a father figure to Brooklyn. I see him as an older brother.

Response recorded on November 29, 2001

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Gipdac writes...

You might have answered this before, but I couldn't find it.
1) Did Goliath and Demona have any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
2) Did Othelle and Desdemona have any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
3) Did Hyppolytahave any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?

Greg responds...

1. No. They were too young.

2. No. They were too young.

3. No. She was two young.

Response recorded on November 06, 2001

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Cha-Cha writes...

1. Were Demona and Goliath mates before or after "Vows"?
2. What year did Goliath get his name?

Greg responds...

1. Before or after which part of "Vows"? The modern day stuff or the flashback stuff?

2. You know I haven't worked that out precisely yet.

Response recorded on October 10, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

One thing that I thought that I'd mention here today, now that the question queue has gotten started up again, is on Goliath's smashing the Praying Gargoyle and foiling Operation Clean Slate in "Hunter's Moon".

I think that it's obvious to us all that Goliath was taking a big risk there, since if Demona had smashed the vial after that, all the gargoyles would have died alongside all the humans. But I wonder how many of us have noticed something else, that foiling Demona's genocide scheme entirely (as indeed happened here) could be almost as fatal to the gargoyle race. After all, at this point, the existence of gargoyles has been revealed to the world, and the public wasn't too thrilled with that. At the time that Goliath was confronting Demona, St. Damien's Cathedral was surrounded by an angry crowd practically howling for the gargoyles' blood, which was even prepared to charge in vigilante-style if the police didn't do anything. And even afterwards, as we saw in "The Journey", the public attitude towards gargoyles remained hostile; people were eagerly joining the Quarrymen when Castaway set it up, Margot Yale was openly calling for the capture and incarceration of the entire species on television, etc. We know, of course, from your "Gargoyles 2198" announcement that eventually humans do learn to recognize gargoyles' right to exist, and that by 2198, the days of near-universal attempts on humanity's part to hunt down and kill gargoyles are over - but Goliath, obviously, couldn't have known that.

I don't know whether Goliath had time to realize when he smashed the Praying Gargoyle (he took action extremely quickly, after all) that he was thus potentially endangering his species twice over, and that by saving humanity he was potentially dooming his race to brutal massacres (and I'm sure that even if he did know it, he'd have felt that there are just certain things that you have to do that are more important than mere survival and that wiping out one race so that another can survive is wrong - not to mention that he also knew that not all humans were crazed anti-gargoyle zealots), but I still think that that action of his was probably one of the most courageous and altruistic deeds that he performed in the entire series. I just thought that I'd give my thoughts on that here.

Greg responds...

I think his action was considerably less thought out... for me it's as Elisa say: "That's what he does. That's who he is." It was as purely a "Goliath" response to a crisis as any we've seen. Goliath isn't perfect, far from it. But the angel of his better nature is a pure and powerful thing.

Response recorded on October 10, 2001

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Alissa writes...

Morning Greg. I have a little confusion going on reguarding dialog in episode "Hunter's Moon" 3. I was confused between the conversation going on over justice and vengance.

Scene Elisa's apartment after the clock tower bombing.
"The law?! What about Justice?"- Goliath
"I'm sorry but you don't want justice. You want vengance."-Elisa
"What?"
"Look at what this feud has cost us already."-Angela

I followed it just fine until this line "That's exactly why we must have vengance!"-Goliath
I thought he wanted justice? Goliath said Justice. Elisa said vengance. They(The clan)contradicted him then he worded about vengance. Am I missing something or is Goliath? Could you explain to me the scene here. Thank you :)

Greg responds...

No. That is, I could. But I don't see any point. It speaks for itself. If you're asking whether we made a mistake, the answer is no. That is to say, we didn't forget and feed Goliath a word we didn't mean to.

I'll leave it for you to interpret why Goliath switched words.

Response recorded on September 11, 2001

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Shan writes...

This has both an apology and a question. Apparently you answered my recently posted question previously, to Aaron, some time ago. The problem is that I did not see Thailog's archive (somehow my eye missed it that time) and only one for the Clones. The answer I wanted was in Thailog's archive but not in the Clones archive. Therefore, I thought I was asking a new question.

But I've also figured out what bothers me about Goliath's "he is my son" response. If, as you said in your response to Aaron, Goliath feels responsible and wants to bring Thailog into the fold -- where he told Angela she should see the clan as her parents -- should Goliath have said instead "he is the clan's son" or "he is our son" (though THAT would have been odd, since he's talking to Elisa!).

Is that taking it personal attributable to Goliath's personality then? Would most Gargs have said "Thailog is the clan's son" or "He is of my blood. He is one of the clan"???

Greg responds...

You're taking this stuff out of context, as you yourself indicates. The fact that he didn't semantically state it EXACTLY as you might wish he had, is unimportant. You get the idea.

Really, I think you're splitting hairs.

Response recorded on September 06, 2001

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Shan writes...

I just got done watching "Double Jeapordy," and in it Goliath emphasizes to Elisa that he must stay on the rig and talk to/rescue Thailog because "he is (of?) my blood. He is my son."

However, later on he meets his daughter Angela, but doesn't realize the connection at first. After Sevarius clues her in about her biological parents (Goliath and Demona) and Angela starts pressing the point with Goliath, Goliath responds with something to the effect that children belong to the whole clan. It is not until Elisa's mother and Goliath have the heart to heart about children sometimes needing special attention that Goliath and Angela begin to bond more directly, if I'm not mistaken.

But with Thailog, Goliath wants to reach out and make a bond almost from the outset.

Is it the circumstances of Thailog's creation that make Goliath take more responsibility for Thailog from the get-go versus Angela, or is it (though certaintly not her fault) that the fact Angela is also Demona's child somehow alienates Goliath more at first? Is it something else entirely? I found the difference in attitudes striking.

Greg responds...

In fact, Goliath's initial reaction to Thailog is not to form a bond. It's to call him an abomination. (You blithely skipped over that, Shan.) Part of what follows is a bit of guilt mixed in with him taking responsibility for Thailog as a parent.

As to Angela, you've again missed his initial reaction to her on Avalon. It is clearly one of paternal pride, just as he is proud of Gabriel and all of his children.

Later, he NEVER denies her as his child. He simply is uncomfortable with her focus on him as her biological father. This also mixes in guilt -- survivors guilt this time. And a healthy fear that if she responds this way to him being her biological father, then how will she respond when and if she learns that Demona is her biological mother. If she had simply been calling him father from the get go, he'd have had no problem. But she didn't until she got word from Sevarius about biology. That's what troubled him. She wasn't thinking like a gargoyle. When "Goliath responds with something to the effect that children belong to the whole clan" that's not just a means of putting her off, it's not just something to say. That's how he was raised. That means something to him.

In any case, the Thailog and Angela situations are so widely different, it's really comparing apples and oranges. But I certainly don't see any inconsistencies in Goliath's behaviour.

Response recorded on September 06, 2001

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kmd writes...

Hi Greg,

First I must say I adore Gargoyles.

I hope these questions don't offend you.

1. Do gargoyles have sex like humans do?

2. If so, do they experience pleasure?

3. Could a human and a gargoyle have sex? (i.e., Goliath and Elisa)

Greg responds...

1. Largely but not exclusively.

2. Yeah, duh.

3. They can certainly give pleasure to each other. But I'm not going into detail in this forum.

Response recorded on September 01, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

1)So could the Magus cast any spell he had memorised ealier without the help of the Grimorum or Avalon? The way I understood it, he needed a conduit to cast any spell.

2)So then why didn't Tom or Goliath do it without a conduit?

Greg responds...

1. A conduit helps. Also certain spells are designed intentionally to be more difficult then others. More difficult to do, and more difficult to remember.

2. Tom and Goliath aren't sorcerers. But memorizing one incantation and using it over and over again isn't too hard. Jumping back and forth between multiple complex spells is a much different thing.

Response recorded on August 30, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

1) Given that most gargoyles have a desire to feel the warmth of the sun, wasn't Goliath or Angela tempted to ask for a chance at wearing a Guatimalan sun amulet, if only for a short time? If so, did their politeness outweigh their desire?

One more for the Guatimalan Gargs. 2) I Don't know if it's true, but I heard somewhere that the clan had a lot of eggs. I don't see how it could be more than 2 eggs, for 2 pairs of Gargs, unless the bigger clan was massacered pretty recently. So is that the case?

Greg responds...

1. Tempted briefly, perhaps. But they knew the amulets weren't toys or trifles. So, yes, too polite to ask.

2. Yes. Watch the episode, it makes that fairly clear.

Response recorded on August 30, 2001

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Entity writes...

Hello,

I've recently allowed myself to be engulfed in astrology, and so I'm wondering:

1) What is Xanatos' birthday?

2) What is Elisa's birthday?

3) What is Goliath's "hatch"-day?

4) What is YOUR birthday?

Thanks :)

Greg responds...

4. September 28, 1963. Libra.

As for the others, I have years, not specific dates. At least at this time.

Response recorded on August 30, 2001

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William Cain writes...

In the episode "Temptation", Goliath is placed under the a spell that makes him a slave to whom
Ever holds the Grimorum. OK. (A few point then my question and hopefully an answer.)
Point 1.The confines of the spell were that he would obey whoever held the book.
Point 2. In order to free Goliath from the zombie like state Elisa told him to act as is he was not placed under the magic spell.
Point 3. Demona took the actual counter spell.
I just don't feel that her having him act normal would cancel the effects of the magic as for him running around like a zombie yes but not the magic control its self but… I will leave that to you.
My question is if Demona was to take the book again could she take control over Goliath once more or are the effects of the spell no more?
Thank you for your Time
William Cain

Greg responds...

Here are my points:

1. Whoever held the spell. Not the book. At the end, Elisa was holding the spell.

2. Demona did not have the counterspell. She took other spells, like the one to summon Puck.

3. After Elisa issued her command, I'm betting they destroyed the spell. But who knows? (Well, I do. But I'm not telling.)

Response recorded on August 30, 2001

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zakhur writes...

hi Greg! I was thinking, when at las gargoyles were discovered , I woul assume, that most cientific minds, espeacily biologists, would like to know and study this new species, given the bad history the gargoyles have had (espeacilly with Sevarius) would they give access to themself so they could be studied, I was thinking maybe Goliath would keep an open mind on this, so there would be more trust between gargoyles and humans, but I'm not sure, what do you think?

Greg responds...

I think that early on, Goliath and the rest would be VERY leery of allowing any further experimentation.

Response recorded on August 08, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

In "Long way till Morning", Goliath says that they can't keep Demona imprisoned, and he won't consider the alternative. By the enf of hunters moon part 3, would Goliath consider the alternative, now that he knows what Demona was capable of? To what extent would he consider it, taking Angela into consideration?

Greg responds...

I honestly don't believe that when push comes to shove that Goliath could ever kill Demona. Ever. Unless you want to get WAY hypothetical on me. (Which you all know I don't particularly enjoy.)

Response recorded on August 08, 2001

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Sexy Queer writes...

I'm not sure if this was ever asked but did Angela tell her Rookery siblings that Demona was her mother, If so where they in shock about it?

Greg responds...

Well, they didn't really know Demona, except as that garg who attacked them while under a spell. So it held less significance from an "oh my god, Demona!" standpoint.

Also, I'm sure they all have mixed feelings about the whole biological parenting thing. I'm not sure that Angela did tell them that Goliath was her biological father. That would seem too much like unseemly bragging. (So maybe for that reason alone, she didn't mention Demona either.) At any rate, they all would have thought of Goliath and Demona as Clan Parents.

Response recorded on July 27, 2001

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Gabriel writes...

Back again,
Do think Goliath likes James Joyce or William Faulkner? Just wanting to know 'cause I am trying out DUBLINERS, and I always have difficulty reading ABSALOM,ABSALOM! and, after three attempts, can never get past the third chapter! ARGH! I had an easier time with SOUND AND THE FURY. OK, thanks.

Greg responds...

Goliath loves Shakespeare and Dostoyevski. I also love Shakespeare, but have trouble with Dostoyevski. I also LOVE Faulkner and have some trouble with Joyce. It suggests that Goliath's tastes are a bit more mature than mine.

Which is a long way of saying, Yes, he likes both.

Response recorded on July 27, 2001

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Steven L. writes...

Gargoyles mate for life. Does that mean that once two gargoyles show interest in each other, and become intimate, that they've mated, and are officially forevermore monogamous?
If so, what happens if, over the years, the two gargoyles come to drift apart, or realize they have nothing in common? Do they stay together simply because of tradition? I take it there's no gargoyle equivalent of divorce. (Or at least there wasn't until Goliath and Demona kinda set precident).
And in that vein; should a gargoyle have an affair, then what happens if that affair is discovered? Does the unfaithful gargoyle and the one he/she had the affair with get banished from the clan?
Hope this hasn't been asked before.

Greg responds...

Gargoyles mate in both sexual and ritualistic fashion. After that they GENERALLY (and that's the key word) remain monogamous.

They imprint upon each other biologically, and there are strong ties of custom to discourage a split. Affairs, I believe, are quite rare.

But as you noted, sometimes things don't work according to plan. Iago has clearly imprinted on Desdemona, though she is imprinted on Othello and he has imprinted on her.

Goliath and Demona imprinted upon each other, but maybe as a result of a thousand years, that imprinting didn't last. Goliath has clearly imprinted anew on Elisa. (BTW, I'm not sure I'm using the word imprinting correctly. I know it's generally used for babies to imprint on their mothers. But it's the closest thing I can think of.)

So there are issues of both biology and custom that discourage anything like divorce or cheating. But that doesn't mean it NEVER happens.

Response recorded on July 18, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

In the Gathering, part 1, how did Goliath feel, upon returning, when Elisa called Broodway "Big Guy"? Why did Elisa use Goliath's nick name on Broodway? I'm not to conserned, just curious.

Greg responds...

"Big Guy" is Goliath's nick name?

Response recorded on July 17, 2001

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Stacey writes...

Hello Mr Weisman!
First of all, congeratulations on such a great show, it's the best cartoon I've ever seen, I've loved it since I was a kid!
Just a quick question. I asume that Demona eventualy finds out about Goliath and Elisa's relationship. How does she feel? I always thought that she retained feelings for him - despite her best efforts - and there's the fact that she probably hates Elisa more than anyone else alive.
When you outlined the space spawn/Samson/2198 or something storyline, there was no mention of Goliath and Elisa ever having children, grandchildren etc. I know that biologicaly speaking, there was very little chance that it would ever happen (unfortunantly), but I always thought that they would find someway of adopting. You don't have to say if you don't want to, but Goliath and Elisa without kids is heartbreaking. They would make such wonderful parents! I know that they would help raise the clans children, but its not quite the same is it? I mean Goliath has taken up the role as sole parent to angela, and Elisa is human anyway. Please give me hope!
Anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to rant on for so long. I need my gargoyles fix.
Good luck for the future.
XXX

Greg responds...

Thanks, Stacey.

You'll worry less if you stop thinking like a human. There will be plenty of children. And Goliath and Elisa will be parents to them. I've discussed them having their own children before. Hinted at it. Check the archives if you want.

As for Demona, I don't think this will come as news to her. And she already doesn't like it.

Response recorded on July 11, 2001

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Mary Mack writes...

At some point at the Gathering, I overheard you telling some lucky fan or fans when Brooklyn learned to read. I was dashing off somewhere, probably trying to chase down Kanthara again (whom I finally caught on Monday-- Hi Kanth!), and I didn't get to eavesdrop on the whole thing. It sounded fascinating, and like part of a larger question about which gargs learned to read when. I sure wish I knew the answer, and I'd bet money that your other faithful readers want to know too. So...

We know when Hudson and Braodway learned to read-- they started right after "Lighthouse on the Sea of Time." When did the other members of the Manhattan clan learn to read?

Thatnk you for your time and I hope everybody pre-registers for the Gathering 2002-- I did!

Greg responds...

Thank you, Mary. I believe Brooklyn learned to read shortly after awakening in the twentieth century. I believe Goliath learned from Demona in the tenth century. I believe Demona learned from the Archmage. I believe Lex learned in the tenth century too. Angela was taught by the Magus.

(Lots of fun tidbits always get revealed at the Gathering.)

Response recorded on July 11, 2001

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Sloth writes...

Who is your favorite character in the garg universe? assuming u have one.

Greg responds...

I don't. Goliath is the prism through which the universe was recreated. But I love 'em all. Even the bad guys and the nobodies.

Response recorded on July 06, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Will we ever meet the biblical Goliath?

Greg responds...

Sure. He'll be at Virgina Beach, next summer.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Anastasia writes...

Hello Greg!
I loved the show, especialy the Goliath/Elisa story. But I have a question, I heard that gargoyles age at half the rate that humans do. Would that affect Goliath and Elisa's relationship as the years whent on?
(Oh yeah, and just a daft one...do gargoyles shave? Hudson is the only one with facial hair of any description, I just wondered...)
OK. That you very much. How are you today?

Greg responds...

Some gargs shave, some don't.

And yes, the difference in their age rate would of course effect their relationship. But I'm not saying how.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Corrine Blaquen writes...

Last night I was watching 'Hunter's Moon, Part II' on Toon Disney. Since it's definately one of my favorite episodes, I tried to spot all the stuff I'd missed when on previous viewings. I was delighted by what I found!

It was in the scene right after when Elisa gives Angela CPR. In a short time afterwards dawn comes. What I noticed was that just before they turn to stone, Broadway moves beside where Angela is lying and takes her hand. It was happening in the background and no attention was called to it, but I thought that was incredibly sweet! I really loved it. Was that another hint that Broadway and Angela would end up together? If it was, it was a VERY nice way to do so. :-)

Another question about Hunter's Moon, Part II: When Goliath is just outside Elisa's window, seeing all that happens within (My original reaction to Elisa and Jason was *GASP!* "OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO OHMYGOD, NO!" So on and so forth), could he hear what was being said? I couldn't tell.

And I'd like to take a brief moment to say thanks for creating a show with characters that can endear themselves with little background actions and that make me care SO MUCH that its hero gets the girl!

Greg responds...

1. Yes. As soon as Gary Sperling and I decided (while working on Turf) that Broadway and Angela would wind up together, we tried to show their relationship building -- in subtle ways.

2. Yes, he could hear. But in Soap Opera fashion, he left before he heard it all. To our credit, even the stuff he missed wasn't exactly equivocal.

You're welcome. Thanks for watching.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Sloth writes...

When Goliath found out Puck was Owen, or owen was puck, whey didn't he persue the matter of whether Future Tense was a dream or a profossy?

Greg responds...

What's a 'profossy'?

Seriously, did the timing seem right to you?

And at any rate, G's not a dope. He knows he'd never get a straight answer from the Puck.

Response recorded on July 01, 2001

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Sloth writes...

Goliath asks the Magus to turn him to stone because now he is "truly alone" as he said. Granted he did lose all of his current friends but didn't he know that there were other gargs in scottland? And he said they eggs were about to hatch, so why didn't he stick around for them?

Greg responds...

To put it unkindly, he was suicidally depressed. He needed intervention in a big way. Fortunately for Hudson, Bronx and the Trio (not to mention Elisa) he didn't get it.

Response recorded on June 30, 2001

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Anastasia writes...

Hello Greg!
I fist saw the show back in 1994 when I was nine years old and I've been a fan ever since.
I love the Goliath/Elisa story line - its the reason why I fell in love with the show. Just a few questions that have been bugging me...
1) I know that this is just a hypothetical (hope I spelt that correctly) question - please indulge me - but if Elisa had been alive in 994, who would Goliath have chosen to be mates with, Elisa or Demona?
2) I'm not trying to be crude, honest I'm not, but can Goliath and Elisa have sex? And would they plan to try it?
Ok, thank you in advance.

Greg responds...

1. Probably Demona. It took extreme circumstances for Goliath to look at Elisa in that way. Doesn't mean his heart didn't go out to her sooner. But his head needed some catch up time.

Having said that, I'm not too fond of hypotheticals.

2. There are many ways for two adults to express their love and give each other pleasure. Eventually... eventually... they would experiment.

Response recorded on June 30, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

This is something that I should be posting later, ideally, since you haven't yet gotten to the Avalon World Tour episodes in your ramblings, but I finally decided that I needed to let this out of me soon, so I'm doing so now.

I've noticed, over the years since I discovered "Gargoyles" fandom on the Internet, that many people didn't like the Avalon World Tour for various reasons (the length of time, the absence of Hudson and the trio, the focus on myth and fantasy aspects rather than more "mundane" elements like crime-fighting, etc.). On the other hand (while I may have had my moments of wondering when Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx were going to get back to New York), I quite liked the World Tour. To a certain extent, I'll admit that I'm biased - my tastes naturally run towards fantasy/myth elements. But after doing a little thinking on this one, it increasngly struck me that, aside from all that, something of the nature of the Avalon World Tour was a must for "Gargoyles" at some point.

The reason for this is that the World Tour served a very crucial purpose (besides the general one that you mentioned of expanding the "Gargoyles Universe"). It made it clear that Goliath, his clan, and Demona weren't the only gargoyles left. And that was a crucial step. Because if they really had been, the gargoyle species would have been almost irrevocably doomed to extinction, with only seven members left, only one of those seven a female, and that one estranged from all the rest and very unlikely to reconcile with them. Goliath and the others would have been the "last gargoyles", not only in the sense of being the only ones left, but also in the sense that no new gargoyles would come along after them.

If that had been the case, it would have obviously made a rather depressing series. Admittedly, having the main character be the "very last of his kind" wouldn't necessarily be utterly melancholy - Superman is the very last Kryptonian, and his story's an upbeat one, on the whole. But the situation there's different; Superman's alien origin is treated more as a plot device to explain his abilities, so his being "the last of his kind" doesn't appear quite so melancholy. Goliath and his clan's "gargoyleness", however, was treated in the series from the start as a crucial part of them and their very nature, rather than a similar handy plot device to allow them to serve as effective protectors of New York. And also, it was clear enough from the start that an important part of the series would be the gargoyles seeking to make peace with humanity, to overcome the fear that so many humans view them with. Such a quest would have been futile (in a sense) if they were the last of their kind - the understanding on humanity's part of the true nature of gargoyles would come too late to avert the race's extinction - the best that the gargs would be able to hope for in such a situation was that they might be able to live out their last years without the general human population hunting them down, but still aware that there would be no new gargoyles after them. Not very happy.

So there'd obviously have to be gargoyles living in other parts of the world to ensure a future for the species. And Goliath and his clan would have to come into contact with those other gargoyles for the audience to see that they weren't the last. But the clan's situation would make that tricky. For one thing, there'd be the obvious transportation problems - they can't simply hop aboard the next plane bound for London or Japan. And given how secretive gargoyle clans would obviously have to be in modern times, even if Goliath and Co. had a mundane means of transportation to wherever it was that one of these clans was living, they would certainly not be likely to find out about these other clans easily. The only solution to both questions that wouldn't feel contrived was magic - as in the magic of Avalon that sends you where you need to be. That way, Goliath could be brought to the locations of the clans in London, Guatemala, and Ishimura in a convincing fashion.

So I think that the Avalon World Tour was indeed a practical must for the series, to allow the crucial moment when the clan can learn, as Hudson put it in "The Gathering", "We're not alone. We're not the last."

Greg responds...

Hey, pal, I'm with you.

From moment one, we wanted to present an OPTIMISTiC world view, that mirrored Goliath's own. (Not that he hasn't had a bad moment or mood or two.)

The World Tour was a necessity from that stand point for all the reasons you stated.

Plus it was a necessity given some of my future plans. 2198 immediately comes to mind. But there was other stuff too.

Response recorded on June 29, 2001

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Sapphire writes...

Sorry Matt for picking on you I was just joking any question time.....

Greg you said earlier that Talon would get upset when his sister takes Goliath to be her mate. I was wondering why would he get upset over his sister's choice about the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with?

Greg responds...

Think about it and get back to me.

Response recorded on June 27, 2001

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Shavri writes...

Between Goliath and Broadway, who would eat more food? I'm guessing Broadway, but I'm sure Goliath would have to eat a lot of food himself.

Greg responds...

I'm not big on quantifying these sorts of things.

Response recorded on June 27, 2001

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matt writes...

do you think it is possible and likely that Goliath and Iago are close relatives biologically, like cousins perhaps? they just seem pretty similar compared to most gargs... the black hair, the purple wings, etc.

i'm sorry, i know how you hate questions about bilogical garg relatives... but i had to know!

Greg responds...

I'm glad you put that in the past tense.

Otherwise I'd be worried that this response would upset you.

Response recorded on June 27, 2001

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Buck writes...

At the end of "Temptation", Elisa tells (commands?) Goliath (under the spell) to always act as if he was not under a spell. I'm assuming this means for all spells and not just that particular one he was under. If this assumption is correct, how would Goliath be affected by Puck's spells in "The Mirror"? I want to say there are other times he's been under a spell, but I haven't seen too many episodes on Toon Disney yet (I just got the station) and I'm cursed with a poor memory.

Greg responds...

You're assumption is incorrect.

She didn't (couldn't) give him full magical immunity. She didn't have that kind of control. She simply ordered the slave to act FOREVER as if he wasn't one.

Response recorded on June 20, 2001

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Andrea writes...

What were your plans for Goliath and Angela ?

Greg responds...

Extensive.

Response recorded on June 20, 2001

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Justin writes...

Hi Greg

Ok now am I too assume correctly that when the 78 ( 39 biologically) year old Brooklyn returns from his dances he is stronger than he was when he left right? I mean he had been fully grown by that time and plus the perils of the dance could cause for a greater need to thicken up.

So the big question,
Can the (39) year old Brooklyn hold his own or maybe even win in a fight against the (29) year old Goliath?

Thanks

Greg responds...

Why would they fight?

Response recorded on June 20, 2001

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matt writes...

you said that Iago decieved Othello and Desdemona in 993 and that he was banished after that, but he came out of his banishment in 994, in time for the massacre. is all that right?
why was it such a short banishment?
how do gargoyles decide on how long to banish a clan member?
does the whole clan decide the banishment time/punishment or just the leader?
was Goliath in effect banishing the trio but only lightly when he sent them to the rookery or was that a common punishment for young gargs?

Greg responds...

That's basically right.

The banishment was for a year, which isn't that short considering he didn't kill anyone. He was just causing trouble. (Whispering in Othello's ear, causing Othello to act like a jerk isn't that big a crime, I guess.) Also, Iago may have done something to get back in everyone's good graces. At least begrudgingly.

The leader makes the final decision.

He wasn't literally banishing them. Sort of telling them to sit in the corner. It was not an uncommon punishment. But it was mostly done just to temporarily difuse things while he was gone for what he assumed would be a short errand.

Response recorded on June 10, 2001

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Jade writes...

How did Goliath come to get his name, and when did he get it? Thanks

Greg responds...

During the Dark Ages. A human named him. That's all I want to say right now.

Response recorded on May 09, 2001

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matt writes...

just watched "Possesions", one of my favirote eps by the way, anyway, i thought of a few questions...

1. ok, is it me, or does Lex hate Coldstone? the whole clan doesn't like Iago, but Lexington seems to hate Coldstone in general... in "Legion" he trys to convince Goliath not to invite Coldstone into the clan, or back to the clocktower and that was before they knew about the other souls in Coldstone, in "High Noon" he warns Goliath about freeing Coldstone, this time his concern was justified, but in "Possesions" Lex really seems to hate Coldstone, when Coldstone first arrives Lex screams his astonishment at Coldstone being brought to the clocktower by "Goliath" and "Hudson", then he seems to be the most skeptical about "Goliath's" plan, and then he is the only one not to volunteer for the soul transference. so, am i right? does Lex have a major problem with Coldstone? is it jealousy, i mean, does Lex wish he was as integrated with technology as Coldstone is? "Future Tense" comes to mind...

2. why does Puck keep trying to make Xanatos look evil to the gargs? in "Future Tense" his illusion of Xanatos is pretty nasty, and in "Possesions" Puck goes on about how Xanatos is about to unleash new robots and he is not sincere about oweing Goliath for helping to save his son, obviously Puck doesn't believe these things, but why try to make the gargs believe it?

3. any reason that Iago/Coldsteel didn't have a tail (either in cyberspace or as a robot) in "Possesions", but did have one in "Legion" and "High Noon"?

sorry for the lengthy questions...

Greg responds...

1. No. I don't think so. I just think he's very aware of Coldstone's potential danger to the clan.

2. He's simply playing to Goliath's weaknesses.

3. I never noticed that. Are you sure?

Response recorded on May 04, 2001

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Yttrium writes...

I know you dislike hypotheticals, Greg, but maybe you'll find this one as acceptable: If Angela wasn't traveling with her father, meaning if she and Goliath were not biologically related, would she have even wondered who her parents were? Thanks.

---Ytt

Greg responds...

I doubt it. It was Sevarius' DNA report that got her thinking about it. And she didn't raise the question right away. It just began to build in her mind.

On the other hand, I think it wouldn't have taken her too long to start looking at Goliath as a father figure. And in fact (biology aside) he was one of her clan fathers. And really, the only one she was likely to ever meet. (With the possible exception of Coldstone.)

Response recorded on May 04, 2001

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Alex "Cyclonus" Bishansky writes...

When Goliath put on the Eye of odin, how come his armor looked like Odin's? Neither Fox not the Archmage took on any of elements of Odin's appearance.

Greg responds...

Proximity is literally part of the reason.

Goliath became an avatar of Odin, much like Jackal did for Anubis.

Response recorded on April 09, 2001

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Shavri writes...

Ohp, here I go again... Why does Iago/Coldsteel hate Goliath so much. Jealousy, and or something else?

Greg responds...

He doesn't actually. I mean, he doesn't like particularly, but most of his ire is reserved for Othello/Coldstone. Goliath was never anything more than a convenient pawn.

Response recorded on April 08, 2001

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Shavri writes...

Sorry for double posting, I just thought of another question. Is one of the reasons why Xanatos was always picking on Goliath is that it gave him a sense of power? You know, as kind of an ego-booster? Is it that the same reason Wolf was always trying to fight Goliath(besides his hatred of him)?

Greg responds...

It's in there. But it's also not that simple.

Response recorded on April 08, 2001

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Shavri writes...

I'm curious, how much does Xanatos like Goliath, and in what way? Goliath seems to be his favorite gargoyle, because he was always modeling things after G and so on. Does he think of Goliath as his sort-of friend or his plaything? Because Xanatos really seemed to get a kick out of playing with his emotions and all. Poor Goliath...

Greg responds...

Xanatos likes Goliath a lot. Thinks he's a good guy, if a bit of a stiff. I'm not sure Xanatos yet knows the true meaning of friendship, though his relationship with Owen comes close.

Response recorded on April 08, 2001

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Demona Taina writes...

One of my favorite smart-ass responses, among many, well, one guy asked (I can't remember whom) what Goliath was like when he was a baby. You replied: "Purple." [LOL] So I'm a hopeless Goliath fan. :P

Greg responds...

Yeah, that's good. (THough I'm amazed I thought of that, being color-blind. Heck, I didn't even KNOW Goliath was purple for about a year after I first saw his color model. I just assumed he was blue.)

Response recorded on April 08, 2001

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Shavri writes...

Hi, again, Mr. Weisman. I have another question. Was Goliath either supposed to be good-looking or not(GENERALLY speaking). I'm asking this because of your Kenner Toys memo ramble: Goliath Characteristics
* Huge, powerful, and ugly.
Then in a past rambling titled, "FOCUS TESTING" refering to Goliath: He looks handsome and noble and just a bit uncomfortable and sad.
You know, some of the show's animation showed these stark contrasts in the opinions in how Goliath should look. In one episode he's looking hot-to-trot, then in the next he's(to put it quite bluntly) pretty ugly, and then in the next he's pretty average-looking. This was one of my pet-peeves with the show. So, which is he, handsome or ugly?

Greg responds...

That's absolutely got to be in the eye of the beholder, don't you think?

In my mind, he was never ugly. But he was monstrous. Some of our animation was certainly inconsistent, here and there, but sometimes what your describing has a lot more to do with an intentional dichotomy.

Noble, yes. Monstrous, yes. Ugly... only if you can't see beauty. Elisa could. Almost immediately.

Response recorded on March 29, 2001

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Cassandra writes...

Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

recorded on 02-15-01

Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.

I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.

I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.

Greg responds...

And an interesting one. But yes, that Deadly Force moment was to Goliath, a kiss equivalent. Not necessarily a romantic kiss. But a caring one.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Cleo writes...

Do you think Gargoyles will ever come back on the air?and if so will there be more episodes on the Goliath-Elisa relationship? P.S.Gargoyles ROCK!

Greg responds...

Yes, I hope so, and yes, I hope so.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Aaron writes...

I'm probably thinking too human on this, but there is one thing that has always bugged me.

Goliath takes such issue to being Angela's parent, but he was ready to adopt Thailog as his son?

I presume he meant in the rookery father sense, although the language seemed a bit off. Maybe because I'd regard a clone, particularily one who was as physically mature as me, as a brother rather then a son. But again, that's just me.

Greg responds...

Adopt is a strong word. He simply was ready to take responsibility and try to bring him into the fold, in the rookery sense.

Cary Bates agreed with you. Wanted to view Thailog as a brother, not a son. But that didn't match up either with the biology or with Goliath's mindset. At least not in my mind.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Tom writes...

Where oh where is this story on the web about Delilah and Goliath going out?
I've looked everywhere and can't find it.
Please help.

Greg responds...

I haven't written it. I've just talked about it on occasion. Here and at various Gatherings over the years.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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Mel. Celestial writes...

HiIIII!!!!!
1. Okay, so G&E's relationship is the only bridge, and Clan Manhattan didn't mind it at all; how do the other clans around the world might approve of it ?
2. That priceless look on Hudson's face(The Awakening eps.3), what was he thinking about those two(G&E, of course!), and did he find it appaling at first?

Greg responds...

1. Is this a reference to a previous response? If so, I've forgotten what we were talking about.

2. I'd say he was initially non-plussed. But I think he thought it healthy that Goliath was at least making a connection to a human.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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matt writes...

if i asked Goliath, "What is the best thing about being a gargoyle?" what do you think (or know) he'd say?

Greg responds...

Something along the lines of "You are asking me to define all that I am in but a few words. I haven't the eloquence for the task."

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Siren writes...

I didn;t see this in the archieves and was just curious...
In Eye of the Beholder, whose idea was it to dress Elisa as Belle from Beauty and the Beast. It just seemed too perfect and at such a good time in the 1st season to do so.
Also a slightly related question...Where did Goliath learn how to ballroom dance? Demona just doesn't seem the type to have done so before 998AD ;)

Greg responds...

That was my idea, I believe.

And Goliath didn't really need to know how to "ballroom dance". He just needed to be strong enough to hold Elisa and move to the music. It wasn't a contest.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Justin writes...

Here we go again...
1) Will Goliath and Elisa ever have kids?
2) Will Brooklyn and Katana have kids in the 2008 rookery?
3) Will Lexington?

Thanks

Greg responds...

1, 2, and 3. They will be parents to all the children of the clan.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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Memo on "Outfoxed"...

In anticipation of watching "Outfoxed" anyday now, I'm going to go ahead and post the memo I wrote to Cary Bates, after he turned in his outline for that episode, originally titled, "After the Fox".

WEISMAN 11-27-94

Notes on "After the Fox" Outline...

GENERAL
Well, one of the advantages of having you as one of my story editors is that I can be brutally honest. We got some problems here. The main one being that the story doesn't get going in earnest until the last scene of Act Two. We're horribly padded here. Normally, I would give this back to you for a second draft outline, but -- my fault -- I didn't read it in time. So I'll beat it out here.

FOX vs. RENARD
First off, let's make Renard the last name. I know I said it was o.k. to make Renard the first name, but the more I thought about it, the more I didn't want Fox's only connection to the Renard/Fox name to be that it was her father's first name. I don't think she could admit to herself that she was borrowing anything from him. So let's make her given name Janine Renard. He still calls her Janine. She rejects that and has her name legally changed to her nom de guerre: Fox. (Like Cher or Madonna, it's just the one word. Remember, she was a performer.) The "Fox" is the part of herself that she believes in. The irony, of course, is that the name did come from her father.

I don't think Fox consciously hates her father. I don't think she consciously admits to having feelings that could cloud her judgment. There's no vengeance kick here. No line of dialogue where she says she wants to see him suffer or that she only saved his life so she can continue to torture him. That all may be subconsciously true, but if so, she doesn't realize it. Remember, she's Xanatos' perfect mate. Neither her nor her husband get that emotional. They enjoy the game for its own sake. Playing it against her father may give it a special tang, but from her point of view, there's only one reason to do this: Cyberbiotics. She wants it, so she decides to take it. If it wasn't worth having, she wouldn't have bothered.

CYBERBIOTICS
The investor scenario doesn't work. Just because the investors aren't killed, doesn't mean these five terrorized guys are now gonna invest. The damage is done. The stock price will still fall and Cyberbiotics will still belong to Fox by close of business tomorrow.

The solution, I believe, is to change the location. Renard has just rebuilt the CYBERBIOTICS AIR FORTRESS. He's determined to prove that it's safe and effective. It's a corporate icon, like the Good Year Blimp -- and the public does think it's really cool -- but it's still not the smartest investment. It's hybris. Worse... it's Euro-Disney. Renard's had to invest way too much to rebuild it. If it's destroyed so soon after it's reconstruction, Cyberbiotics will be bankrupt and easy prey for Fox. This'll tie in nicely with Goliath's growing sense that he owes Renard a debt. Goliath helped destroy the first Air Fortress. Now, he must save the second one. And if you save the ship, you save the company from Fox.

INTEGRITY: GARGOYLE vs. HUMAN
For once, this should not be an issue. Renard accuses Goliath of not having as much integrity as humans do. But Renard doesn't believe humans have very much integrity -- that's why he's automated his operations -- so we're arguing the wrong premise. Integrity is not the province of either race. Deep down, Goliath may have a vague prejudice that gargoyles are generally more honest than humans, but in his head he knows that his race does not have a monopoly on integrity. Thanks to the events of our pilot, Renard may have a general mistrust of gargoyles, but that's not the point he should be making. Renard firmly believes that integrity is an absolute. You have it. Or you don't. Cut and Dry. Black and White. He's got it. Most humans don't, including Xanatos and his daughter. Machines can be programmed with absolutes. People can't. So he's populating his world with machines. His assumption is that Goliath is no better than Xanatos and that all of the creature's protestations about being duped are nothing more than whining excuses. Will Goliath take responsibility for his actions or won't he? Let's not distract this important theme, with issues of race.

Though I loved the line: "You're gargoyle enough to admit it."

VOGEL
Who is this guy exactly? Security man? Computer programmer? Born-again? Was he hired on a project basis to complete the automation? Is he helping Fox because he knew Renard was going to fire him? Has Vogel automated all of Renard's operations or just the security? If it's just the security, than what are they securing? Why does he repent? Basically, the character is coming across as very vague and contradictory. We have to clean this up.

Let's also make sure we fit Vogel into our theme. He is corrupted by Fox. Ultimately, Renard will use Vogel as another example of why humans cannot be trusted. But Goliath will point out that the cybots were just as corruptible, while incapable of experiencing a change of heart, as Goliath has had.

THE TITLE
"After the Fox"... I don't get it. Am I missing something?

BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Open quietly with FOX at the EYRIE BUILDING. She turns on the evening news. TRAVIS MARSHALL is on the air, reporting from JFK or LaGuardia or wherever. It is the Maiden Voyage of FORTRESS-2, the CYBERBIOTICS airship. Marshall had hoped to get an interview with the reclusive head of Cyberbiotics, HALCYON RENARD, but has to settle for Renard's right-hand man VOGEL. Fox watches all this with some interest.

2. Out at the airfield, Marshall, a tough journalist, questions the wisdom and expense of Fortress-2, particularly since FORTRESS-ONE crashed into the river last year. Vogel counters that the cause of that crash was an act of corporate espionage that was only successful thanks to human error on the part of Fortress-One's crew. Fortress-2 is fully automated, run by patented CYBOTS. Human error is not possible. No humans aboard at all? After this test flight, human scientists will occupy it's laboratories to research new wonders, but there is no human crew, except for Vogel and Mr. Renard, himself. Marshall asks if it's true that Renard has invested all of his personal fortune into Fortress-2, and that if it doesn't perform both he and Cyberbiotics will be ruined. Vogel has no comment on that, and heads inside the ship.

3. We follow Vogel, as he heads for the command center. Everything is automated, and there are little Cybots everywhere. All with very specific functions. No waste. At the command center, Vogel contacts Renard in his private office, elsewhere on board. Cut briefly to a shadowed Renard hovering in his ultra-chair, watching Vogel on a vid-screen. Renard gives permission to launch.

4. Fortress-2 launches. Huge turbines and compressors roar. And GOLIATH and ELISA watch from a nearby roof or hilltop. Goliath claims to be here because he is concerned that XANATOS might attempt to attack this ship, just as he tricked Goliath into attacking the first one. But Elisa probably knows that the air fortress is a symbol of Goliath's own guilt -- a guilt that Goliath has yet to come to terms with. Goliath decides to follow the airship, just to be safe.

5. In the air above Manhattan, a cybot alerts Vogel to their pursuer [Goliath]. Vogel informs Renard. Renard says Vogel knows what to do. (It doesn't hurt if we briefly misdirect the audience into thinking that Renard is a villain.)

6. Goliath glides a short distance behind the airship. Suddenly, flying cybots swarm out of a Fortress-2 hold. There're not very big, and they have very simple attack programming. They fire medium strength stun bolts and they miss more often than they hit. Goliath can swat them away easily. Clearly, these cybots don't seem to be on a par with Xanatos' STEEL CLAN. But if results are what counts, they turn out to be superior. There are just too many of the little things. No matter how many Goliath trashes, there are more coming at him. They hover, which Goliath can't do. And eventually, the stun beams add up. Finally, he gets hit with a barrage of them and passes out. Two larger cybots are waiting to catch him and bring him into the airship. (Let's consistently depict the cybots as mono-functional. Each model capable of doing only one thing.)

7. Inside the airship, Goliath regains consciousness in the brig. The bars on the cell might be bendable for Goliath, but he is forced back by Cybot guards with built-in cattle prods. Vogel is there, and a large metal pneumatic door slides open to finally reveal Halcyon Renard. He floats in on his hover chair. He has silver hair and a very sharp mind -- but he is definitely not "robust and vital".
Renard hovers around Goliath, sizing him up. "So this is what the boys at Gen-U-Tech have been up to. Xanatos must be very proud." Goliath responds that he is neither Gen-U-Tech's creation nor Xanatos'. Renard laughs. Goliath demands to know why he is being held prisoner. "Because if you're my prisoner, than I know you can't destroy Fortress-2 for your master." Goliath: "I have no master." "No? Then why did you do this?" Renard flicks a remote button on his chair, and the walls slide back to reveal a large screen. Another button, and video clips from "Awakening, Parts IV and V" show Goliath's participation in the destruction of Fortress-One. Chastened, Goliath tries to explain that he had been duped by Xanatos: "It wasn't my fault." But Renard doesn't let up: "It's not my fault. It's not my fault. You sound like all my human employees. My former human employees. Crush them all together and you couldn't squeeze an ounce of personal integrity from the lot of them. Don't make excuses, creature! Take responsibility for your actions! Stop whining!"
"I DO NOT WHINE," says Goliath, as he rips the bars off his cell and uses them to smash his cybot guards. But Renard doesn't even flinch. "You don't whine, but you also don't hesitate to destroy more of my personal property." He presses another button, and two stun cannons on his chair blast at Goliath until he is knocked out again.
Vogel apologizes. "All my fault, sir. I'll make sure he can't get out of the next cell." We see that Renard respects Vogel for taking the blame. A cybot informs Vogel that he has an incoming personal call. Renard exits, not wanting to impose on Vogel's privacy.
As Cybots drag the unconscious Goliath away, Vogel turns to a vid-screen and activates it. Reveal Fox on the other end. Is it safe to talk? Mr. Renard always respects my privacy. Is Vogel ready to sabotage Fortress-2? He is if the money's been deposited in his Swiss Bank Account. All taken care of. Vogel: "Then we're ready. And the good news is..." He looks at Goliath. "We've got a perfect candidate to take the blame."

ACT TWO
8. A short time later, Goliath awakens shackled to a wall in a new cell, with MUCH thicker bars, and even more cybot guards. Renard is there in his hover chair, brooding. If only Goliath could make him understand that Xanatos is to blame. But Renard: "Oh, I have no doubt of that. You aren't the first poor soul Xanatos has corrupted. Owen Burnett. Anton Sevarius. They both were Cyberbiotics employees... and they're the least of what that viper has stolen from me. I've no doubt he was behind the attack and no reason to doubt that he tricked you into participating." But if that's so, than why does Renard hold Goliath responsible? "Someone has to. And you obviously don't." It doesn't matter to Renard whose idea it was. It doesn't matter whether Goliath believed he was doing the right thing. Now he knows the truth. What's he going to do about it? Goliath grimly rattles his chains, then says, "I think a better question might be, what are you going to do about it."

9. Xanatos and Fox are working on their Kung Fu at the Eyrie Building. Make a point of showing that they are evenly matched. While they fight, they talk casually. Xanatos: "Weren't you mounting a hostile take-over of Cyberbiotics today? Your not having second thoughts about taking it from old man Renard?" Before she can answer, OWEN enters to alert Fox of a phone call from her physician. When Xanatos looks concern, she misinterprets and tells him not to worry: Cyberbiotics will be hers before morning. And as she says hello into the phone, we cut...

10. In the command center, Vogel instructs a random cybot to shut down for repairs. When it does, he opens it up and installs a chip into it's programming matrix. Then he reactivates the cybot, but when it turns on, an arc of electricity flashes around it, briefly. Vogel taps it on the head. Off you go.

11. Goliath and Renard are still talking practical philosophy. Renard has been brooding over the question of what to do with Goliath. He's trying to decide what the honorable thing would be. He'll probably just turn him over to the authorities. Goliath is aghast. "Look at me, human. Is that an equitable punishment? Was my crime against you heinous enough to justify turning me into a laboratory specimen?" Renard smiles. "Well, we're making progress. You've finally acknowledged that you committed a crime."

12. Elsewhere on the ship, the first cybot that Vogel infected passes another cybot. The same arc of electricity shoots out of the second 'bot. Then both 'bots move off and infect two more...and so on... and so on... and so on...
On Vogel's read-out screen, the percentage of cybots infected keeps rising. 13%... 27%... 32%...

13. Goliath eyes Renard. Almost despite himself, Goliath is beginning to regard the man with a grudging respect. "All right. I've admitted I was wrong. No more excuses. Now what?" But Renard doesn't have any easy answers for him. "Integrity is not easy. It is a daily struggle. A costly struggle. If you only knew what it cost me. My Anastasia. My Janine." Goliath lowers his head, "...my angel..." Renard looks at him closely. "So you do know." Goliath speaks slowly: "I know I owe you a great debt for what I did a year ago. And a greater debt for the education I received tonight. If the text was not new to me, it was at least... worth revisiting."
Now during this entire conversation, a cybot enters and approaches a guard cybot by the door. The guard cybot is infected, and approaches the other cybot by the door and infects it. Neither Goliath nor Renard notice until the cybots flanking Goliath's cell are infected and the arcing electricity catches the attention of both.

14. On Vogel's screen the percentage goes up from 99% to 100%, and "Right on cue" he gets a vid-call from Renard. He affects panic. Somehow that creature in the brig has infected every cybot on board with a computer virus. Renard says, "Nonsense. I've been sitting here talking with him the whole time." Vogel doesn't know how Goliath did it. But the Cybots are not responding to commands. They've set Fortress-2 on a collision course with the CYBERBIOTICS TOWER. They must abandon ship and activate the emergency self-destruct mechanism or both installations will be destroyed, and Cyberbiotics will be history. Renard is beside himself: If Fortress-2 is destroyed than Cyberbiotics is ruined anyway. Vogel shakes his head, flips a switch and a 10 minute time counter appears on the vid-screen. "I'm sorry, sir. You can place the blame on me if you must, but now we have no choice. At our present rate of speed we will hit the tower in ten minutes. You have nine minutes to meet me at the escape pod. After that I will jettison, and use my access code to destroy Fortress-2."

ACT THREE
15. Goliath offers to help Renard try to save the ship. Renard is so furious, he's half ready to believe that Goliath was responsible. But Goliath knows that Renard doesn't really believe that. Goliath helped destroy Fortress-One. "Let me help to save Fortress-2." Renard agrees and presses a button on his chair which releases Goliath. The Cybot guards interpret this as an escape attempt. Renard cannot override them. But between Goliath and Renard's hover-chair, they manage to destroy the cybot guards. They leave the brig. The seconds tick away.

16. Vogel monitors them from the comfortable escape pod. He can't believe the old fool is going to try to save the ship. Why doesn't he just admit defeat and head for the escape pod? Vogel's made sure that route is clear of cybots. He'll just have to discourage anymore heroics. He orders all the cybots to kill the creature and drive Renard toward the pod. (Note: he does NOT want to kill Renard.)

17. Now every cybot on the ship is against Goliath and Renard. The little flying ones that knocked Goliath out in the first place. The big ones that carried him inside. More cattle-prod guard 'bots. Zippy little messenger 'bots. Maintenance 'bots. All of them. The good news is that in the airship's small corridors, there are only so many that can go at our heroes at once. But the situation is intolerable. They can't destroy the 'bots one at a time. They need to cut off power to all the cybots at once. And it's possible. There's a power station at the center of the ship that transmits power to all the cybots. But if they destroy that then they destroy the cybots that pilot the ship. There won't be time to get to the power station, shut it off and then go to the bridge. They have to split up. And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

18. Intercut between Goliath fighting his way to the power station; Renard fighting his way to the bridge, and Vogel getting very nervous in the escape pod. [Turns out that even Vogel didn't know how much the old guy had grown on him. Destroying his empire is one thing. But Vogel is no killer. He doesn't want Renard's death on his conscience. And/or he had explicit instructions from Fox that Renard not be killed.] And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

19. Goliath gets to the power station and destroys it. All the 'bots shut down. But time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

20. With the cybots down, Renard is able to zoom the rest of the way to the bridge quickly. He puts Fortress-2 on manual override, but time has passed the nine minute mark. The tower looms right in front of him and navigation and the helm are located on two different consoles. At the last second, Vogel appears and between the two of them, they are able to turn the ship away from the tower and save it.

21. Aftermath between Renard and Goliath. At first, Renard is bitter. Vogel has confessed his betrayal. Further proof that the human species is devoid of integrity. But Goliath disagrees. Vogel's example hardly proves the wisdom of putting one's trust in single-minded automatons. Automatons are tools. They know nothing of honor or betrayal. They do what they are programmed to do. But a living being knows nothing of programming. A living being must choose. And, ultimately, Vogel chose honor.
Renard lets all that sink in. He's got a lot to think about, but one thing he knows is that Goliath has paid his debt. A ship for a ship. Renard: "We are even." But Goliath: "No... We are friends."

22. Goliath soars off into the night. And he doesn't notice a small hang-glider land on the now defenseless airship behind him. The newcomer abandons the glider and tosses a cloudy ball against the metal hull. The ball shatters and a corrosive substance is released that quickly burns a hole in the hull. The stranger enters the airship, and as she does, we finally get a look at her. It is Fox.

23. Back in Renard's office. He sits in his chair. Quietly. Fox enters behind him, and for a moment we think she's there as an assassin. But he seems to be expecting her. "Hello, Janine," he says. "Hello, Daddy," she replies. "I almost got you that time." "Yes, but why? I built this company for you. I'd have given it to you by now if you hadn't married that villain Xanatos. I'd still probably give it to you if you just stood up and asked me for it honestly." "Oh, Daddy. You and your integrity. Asking for it wouldn't be any fun at all." Renard: "And fun is more important to you than honor. I can't understand that." Fox: "Well, maybe you'll have better luck with the next generation." Renard: "What?" Fox: "That's right, Daddy. You're going to be a grandfather."
FADE OUT.


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Cassandra writes...

Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Later.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Tk writes...

Ok, Hi how are you/
This is driving me crazy. I hate going to sites when i don't know what they are talking about. In the achives you said something about Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other.Was this a episode did i like miss a series or something. What about Delihla (i didn't spell that right)Please explain where did this come from are they your ideas or something.(i'm not dissing them, i'm just confused)Oh and i say pics with the gargs in the street with not panicing people where did that come from.

Oh, and from what i do understand about this one thing which is little,are you trying to break up the star couple. Saying Elisa and Jason could maybe work it out, or something about Morgan. I don't know i just need to know if i missed something or what.

Please help!!!!!

Greg responds...

"Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other"

I don't know what that phrase means. That can't be an exact quote of mine, can it?

Proofreading would help, Tk.

But I gather you are referring to a story that I did NOT get around to doing. A story where Elisa and Goliath would temporarily break up. Where they would go on a double date on Halloween. Goliath with Delilah. Elisa with either Jason or Morgan. (I hadn't decided which.) And no, I wasn't breaking them up. The double date would be a fiasco -- for a number of reasons. And E & G would wind up a couple again.

Does that help?

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Mel. I. C. writes...

ME Again! Hi!!!
1. If G. an' E. really,REALLY want a kid together, thought of Titania or Xanatos offering them the chance, would they choose sorcery or science?
2. Any other gargs and humans out there pursuing relationships like G & E??

Greg responds...

1. Ultimately, neither.
2. No.

Response recorded on February 07, 2001

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Corrine Blaquen writes...

I was reading your "beat sheet" for the pilot you drew up, and it seemed that at first you didn't intend for Demona to be Goliath's mate. What made you change it, if you hadn't planned it since the beginning?

Greg responds...

I'm not sure how you could have possibly gotten that impression. It may not have been spelled out on that document, but we always intended that Demona and Goliath were mates.

Response recorded on February 07, 2001

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WereFox writes...

Greg

Just read your rambling about COS part 2 and I must confess I didn't ever pick up on Goliaths intention on killing Demona. It makes sense even though it would have been futile. Still, say he did try it (Big IF I know), I wonder what her reaction would be. As often as she's thrown his feelings for her back in his face, she'd view his attempt to kill her as a sign that his sentimental weakness regarding her was over. On the other hand, would it be so shocking that Demona would express sorrow that Goliath's feeling for her had so diminshed that he was capable of killing her?

Greg responds...

I think she'd be effected on many levels, including those you've named.

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Addressed to "matt":
About Goliath "abandoning" the eggs: There IS no justification for him leaving the responsibility of taking care of the eggs to Princess Katherine and the Magus. BUT I do "understand" why. Perhaps it was because he was so depressed and traumatized he couldn't think things all the way through. Perhaps because he didn't feel himself "suitable" or "worthy" of taking care of the eggs and that even the humans would do a better job than he would; he must have blamed himself and not just the captain of the guard and Hakon for what happened at Wyvern. He must have felt he deserved the fate of the surviving members of the clan. And it seems that you have forgotten how sincerely remourseful the Princess and Magus were toward Goliath and how they offered to do anything they could for him. It wasn't as if they grudgingly offered to help him; so they were not very likely to go back on their promise. Also he is mortal and imperfect, and as an imperfect being he made a bad decision. Everyone makes a bad decision, and no one is codoning it, I just want to make sure you understand that.

Greg responds...

What he (or she) said.

Why "Anonymous"?

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Hi! I'm Mel from Malaysia and I just wan't to tell you that how much that I'm REALLY hooked and into your original and unique cartoon and it's colourful characters I adore. Well, actually, I do have a vast of shooting questions that might just nip your time away....But you know how Daddies monitor their 17 year old daughters, so I'll just ask a few.
1.I'm so head over heels giddy about the 'steam' between the romantic Duo(G&E), but it also kinda surprises me that the other clan member didn't mind the sparks, I mean, being two different species(I don't mind,REALLY!=]); How come? What did they see within that?
2.Should ever IF THEY have a kid, how'd Demona react to the hybrid

Greg responds...

1. I think that it happened so gradually, that by the time it occured to everyone (but maybe Hudson), Elisa was already part of the family. Too LOVED to be rejected.

2. I don't know how to answer a hypothetical based on a hypothetical. What do I disown first?

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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matt writes...

i was just thinking about the whole Goliath suicide in "Awakening". at first i really understood why Goliath (being he was the last of his kind)did it but as the season went on and i learned things that Goliath must have known i really couldn't justify Goliath doing what he did. first of there was the eggs. those were 36 more of his kind right there! how could he possibly put 36 CHILDRENS! lives into the hands of the people who not only were cruel to him and cursed his species but were not even qualified to raise 36 children of a different species! then there were the other clans of gargs, two must have been pretty close to the Wyvern clan, the clan formed when the Wyvern clan split up and the Loch Ness clan. there were probably many other clans in the vicinity of the Brittish Isles, like the London clan. finally, there are those rouge gargs, some of which became Demona's clan. if she could find them so could Goliath, and with his leadership, who knows the Macbeth-gargoyle alliance might not have ever happened or might have been successful leading to the gargoyles surviving through the centuries. i have trouble condoning Goliath's decision and despite what would later happen in the series i think he made a very bad decision at the time.

Greg responds...

I'm not -- and was never -- asking you to condone it. How could I and how could you? It was a suicide! Hurtful to himself and those who cared about him. Irrevocable, save for an amazing sequence of events that no one could have predicted.

I simply wanted you to understand it.

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

A recent comment on the final scene in Hunter's Moon III brought a question to mind. Being typically human I had not realized Goliath putting Elisa's hair behind her hair was an equivilent to kissing- I just saw it as an intimate gesture. Is Elisa conscious of the meaning of stroking hair to to gargoyles?

Greg responds...

Not fully, but she did read it as an intimate gesture, as you did.

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Hi, I'm curious...what was life like growing up for Goliath(especially in his warrior-trainee years). I'm wondering whether or not he had a stressful time in his warrior-trainee stage. Well I'm sure he did, I'm just asking you to confirm it(if you can). I'm wondering because I'm curious as to what shaped him(speaking as if he were real) to be the person he is today. Judging from his character attributes(which I absolutely admire; "love" even) I'm sure he had a very hard time when he reached puberty. In my mind I see him as a poor troubled youth who is both admired(for his looks and talents) and absolutely hated(for the same things by his clanmates who were jealous of him). Always torn between the need to succeed to please his elders but not succeed too highly to keep his clanbrothers from hating his guts even more than they already did.

Greg responds...

Actually, I think Goliath was a bit sheltered and naive. Not from danger, of course. He faced plenty of that. But until he got quite a bit older, he was less aware of deceipt.

Given that he took danger as a given, I don't think Goliath would think he had a very tough childhood.

As to his youth and training, that's what GARGOYLES: THE DARK AGES was created to explore (among other things).

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Corrine Blaquen writes...

Will Goliath and Demona ever make peace? I realize that they'll never get back together, but would they ever cease being enemies, or maybe even be friends?

Greg responds...

Too soon to say.

Response recorded on January 26, 2001

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Vilija writes...

Hi Greg! Happy Christmas! My question this time's on Christmas presents.

What does Goliath want for Chirtmas this year?
(Does he celebrate Christmas? If not, what does he and other gargs celebrate? Winter Solistce?)

How about Demona? (Santa knows she's been naughty, though.)

What'd Elisa like this year?

Thank you, .... Wait! Today's winter solistce! Have a good one. (and a good holiday.)

P.S. What're you wishing for this year?

Greg responds...

I'd lean more toward Solstice than Christmas. And I don't think Goliath is very interested in material possessions.

Demona wants the same old thing. A human-free earth, and all the power, with no guilt.

Elisa -- I think she'd like a quiet night at home with Goliath.

And me? Well, I wanted the video to Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And I got it. YEAH!

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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Sapphire writes...

What is Goliath's view on homosexuality?

Greg responds...

I don't think he gets why it would even be an issue.

There are many things that might disturb Goliath.

Promiscuity.

Adultery.

Sado-Masochism.

For example.

But neither heterosexuals or homosexuals have the patent on those things.

Response recorded on January 17, 2001


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