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Perish the thought that a yes answer can just be a yes answer. We had approval to proceed, but the powers that be at Disney were still not sure about doing this kind of cartoon at Disney. So they decided to focus test it with kids. Of course, we didn't have an episode produced yet to focus test. So they decided to put the pitch on video, and here I was doing a "Modified Ninth Pass" on the pitch, for this test.
In a focus group test, for those of you who've never heard of one, they pull a bunch of kids more or less off the streets (or out of malls) and put them in a room to watch a cartoon or something. Then a moderator asks questions, while we watch behind a one-way mirror and/or on closed-circuit t.v. The process, from my point of view, is WAY less than scientific, as one strong personality can push an entire group into saying almost anything. Some kids try to guess what answers the moderator wants, and try to make him happy or piss him off. The mere fact that they try this skews the results whether they're successful or not. Also answers get confused, particularly with kids. A kid will say, for example, that he or she "didn't like the villain." That might mean that he or she thinks it's not a very scary or interesting villain. Or it might mean they think it's a GREAT villain to hate.
Personally, focus groups are fascinating to watch in the way a train wreck is fascinating. You can't take your eyes off it. But as feedback goes, I don't hold much store by them.
GARGOYLES FOCUS GROUP VIDEO-SCRIPT
Modified Ninth Pass (Weisman / 1-29-93)
1-A. Trio of typical stone GARGOYLES.
"These are GARGOYLES. Ugly, stone statues that squat on the roofs of old buildings. But there was a time, one thousand years ago, when gargoyles were real, living creatures. During the day, they slept...frozen in stone."
2-B. GOLIATH, the GARGOYLE-MASTER. Proud and Noble.
"But when the sun went down, GOLIATH, the GARGOYLE-MASTER would lead his gargoyle-warriors in defense of the king's castle."
3-C. Goliath reading in library, sitting on small gargoyles.
"And if there was no battle to be fought, he'd retreat to the library to read and learn, all the while making sure that the other gargoyles stayed out of trouble."
4-D. HUMANS scorning the Gargoyles.
"For all these efforts, Goliath received no reward, no thanks or even kindness. In fact, the people of the castle treated all gargoyles with nothing but contempt."
5-E. The Gargoyle-Master alone in the throneroom.
"Still Goliath could no more stop guarding the castle than breathing the air. It's part of a gargoyle's nature to be territorial, protective. And so for years, he maintained his lonely vigil."
6. Close-up of Goliath.
"Then one night, Goliath was betrayed and lured away from his post."
7-F (and/or 7-Alt). SORCEROR curses Goliath and the other gargoyles on the castle ramparts.
"The castle was overrun and sacked. Goliath and the surviving gargoyles were unfairly blamed. The castle SORCEROR laid a curse upon them, and they fell into a stone sleep--that lasted a thousand years."
26. Xavier.
"Now it's 1994. A rich and powerful man has decided there's a better place..."
Pre-8. Castle.
"...for a medieval castle than a picturesque hill in Scotland."
8-G. Castle on the skyscraper.
"He's moved the whole place--lock, stock and gargoyle--to the top of the tallest skyscraper in Manhattan."
9-H. Police Detective ELISA CHAVEZ.
"All of which means absolutely nothing to New York City Police Detective, ELISA CHAVEZ. She doesn't care about castles, and she doesn't believe in curses. She's hot on the trail of a major badguy."
10-I. She's ambushed on a rooftop by multiple THUGS. She's got the drop on most of them. But someone's about to nail her from behind. (And from another rooftop, someTHING is watching in the shadows.)
"Too bad that trail leads her right into an ambush. But thank goodness, a shadowy figure sees what's happening and decides to help."
11-J (and/or 11-Alt). Reveal THE GARGOYLE, determined, as he dives into fray from above.
"Thank goodness for THE GARGOYLE."
12. Gargoyle lifts a badguy with either hand. While a third shoots at him, the bullets glancing off his stone-like hide.
"Goliath benchpresses two badguys easy. And that stone-like hide of his makes him practically invulnerable..."
13-K. Romantic shot in moonlight. Close in. She reaches up to touch his face gently. He looks handsome and noble and just a bit uncomfortable and sad.
"...To everything but Elisa's kindness. She is the first human being who's ever offered him understanding and friendship, hope..."
14-L. From atop the skyscraper, she shows him Manhattan. The city as fortress. This is our showpiece card.
"...And a sense of purpose. She introduces him to his new home, Manhattan, and asks for his help in protecting it against modern day barbarians."
15-M. HUDSON. (One pose, plus two headshots.)
"Fortunately, our hero isn't alone. This is Goliath's old friend HUDSON, a Gargoyle-Warrior long past his prime. Hudson helps out by keeping an eye on the young Warriors-in-training..."
16-N. Trio of young Gargoyles, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY. Same as card 1. (But in color, perhaps?)
"...BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY. (Uh, they picked their own names.)"
20-O. BRONX, the DOG. (Multiple poses.)
"And then there's BRONX, the Gargoyle-dog. He's not a big fan of adventure."
21-P. Bronx (two poses) chewing on a fire hydrant and flying.
"He just likes to eat a lot, sleep a lot and make a general mess."
23-Q. Trio uses Bronx to play trick on Hudson.
"All in all, it's a lot for Hudson to handle."
24-R. Goliath and Elisa try to be inconspicuous on the Subway.
"Not that Goliath has it any easier. It's hard for a seven-foot medieval monster to squeeze into the modern world."
Pre-25 (and/or Pre-25-Alt). Exteriors of castle.
"Sometimes he just needs to retreat back to the old castle..."
25-S. Interior of Gargoyle lair.
" and take it easy. Unfortunately, he doesn't get much time for relaxation..."
26. XAVIER.
"Not with XAVIER around. Rich, powerful and arrogant, Xavier bought the gargoyles' castle. Now he figures he owns the gargoyles too."
30. ROBOT climbing building toward Gargoyle.
"If something rotten is happening in New York...odds are Xavier's behind it."
31. CATSCAN is discovered by Goliath and Elisa.
"Then there's CATSCAN. A scientist mutated by his own experiments..."
32. Catscan, in full pose and "Night Vision" head shot.
"...Into a bitter criminal with deadly Night-Vision."
33. DEMONA with BIG GUN.
"But the toughest villain of them all is the evil gargoyle DEMONA."
34. Demona vs. Goliath, above the city.
"Once she and Goliath were friends. Now, she's his sworn enemy, and she won't rest 'til she controls the night..."
35-T. Stone version of our Gargoyle. Looking vicious and scary. Daylight.
"And the night is all that matters, because the gargoyles still sleep as stone statues during the day, finding an outdoor ledge just before sunrise and striking a pose that could give you nightmares."
36-U. Night. Goliath, handsome and noble again, on top of a skyscraper with the full moon, Elisa and the other Gargoyles right behind him. Gothic mood, but clearly set in the present.
"But when the sun goes down, they're our only protection from the city's dark terrors."
37. Title Card: "GARGOYLES".
"They are the GARGOYLES."
38-V. KID at Disneyland.
"Joining the Disney Family in 1994."
This is still us trying to work out the story we wanted to tell with the first writer we hired for the project (one previous to Eric Luke and two previous to Michael Reaves). I remember this writer felt that having the gargs turn to stone EVERY night was too limiting. He asked us to drop that. I didn't want to, but checked with my boss Gary Krisel for confirmation. Gary agreed with me, so the first order of business was confirming that rule.
Much of the rest of this is a repeat of stuff that already got said. The fact that I had to keep repeating myself was probably not a good sign that we had the right person for this particular project. (I've mentioned before, that I very much admire this writer; it was simply two people seeing things two different ways.)
GARGOYLES 1-22-93
Notes on First Part of multi-parter.
GENERAL NOTES
The following combines (in as coherent a form as we could manage) the General Notes of all concerned.
--First off, we raised the issue of the stone/day - alive/night rule and the problems it can potentially cause. The consensus was an acknowledgement of the difficulty, but a real desire to keep that element. Gary, in particular, felt very strongly that it was one of the main appeals to the concept: an automatic ticking clock to every story, kryptonite, etc.
--Though we all agree that the ECLIPSE would make a great episode some day, we're very concerned about establishing the gargoyle rules here in the first part. We don't want to confuse the issue with an eclipse.
--We want to keep the story largely from Goliath's point of view. His problems. His tragedies. But we don't want him to be a morose character. He's optimistic (until the very end). He believes that in time humans and gargoyles will learn to get along better. He has a sense of humor. He's heroic not dour.
--The-not-yet-named-Hudson is Goliath's aide and advisor. He is NOT a baby-sitter to the kids. In fact, if Goliath requested him to act as baby-sitter, he'd probably refuse. From his point of view, Goliath's the gargoyle-master, and the kids are his responsibility.
--Anyway, we'd like to establish the kids independence from the get-go, to help establish them as being more teen-age in nature than real young. They don't need a chaperone. They're cocky and gung ho.
--We also felt strongly that the castle should be home to both the gargoyles and the humans in 994 A.D. We discussed the following back-back-story as rationale:
Long before 994, there was a gargoyle rookery high on a rocky promontory overlooking the sea. Medieval man sought out these rookeries as prime real estate for building their fortresses or castles. For one reason, the cliffside protected there backs, and the only accessible wall was easily manned by archers, etc. Secondly, medieval man knew that the gargoyles were instinctively territorial and protective of the rookery's inhabitants, whether those inhabitants were gargoyles or humans. If the humans of the castle could put up and co-exist with the gargoyles they'd have a built in group of warriors at night. And it was mutually beneficial: the gargoyles received human protection during the day.
Though not as rare in Europe as, say, the giraffe, even then Gargoyles and their rookeries were scarce. A castle-builder who couldn't find one to build on might carve stone gargoyles to fool and thus scare away would-be attackers. (Back then everyone knew about gargoyles.)
But our castle in Scotland was built on a rookery. And the gargoyles and humans have coexisted there for years. But as our story opens, relations are tense. Humanity as a race is taking on airs. To the humans, the gargoyles are uncouth. Grotesque. Ill-mannered. Nocturnal, and therefore noisy at night when humans are trying to sleep. Considered, at best, a necessary evil.
STORY NOTES
--The following "outline" is only designed to track the story and lay out the serious, emotional underpinning. It still needs to be injected with fun, humor, exciting action, etc. It comes to a tragic conclusion, but we aren't looking for 22 minutes of depressing tragedy. Obviously, it can be improved upon. Also, most of these scenes can be very quick.
ACT ONE
I. Open with peasants struggling on foot up the hill toward the castle on the promontory. It is minutes from sunset.
A. Intro ROBBY (a peasant boy) and ROBBY'S MOM. She's hurrying her son along (with other peasants) so that they reach the safety of the castle walls before the advancing army of MARAUDERS.
1. They enter the castle. The gates are closed.
B. CAPTAIN of the Guards has all his archers at the ready on the castle battlements. We establish hideous stone gargoyle statues.
C. Outside the castle, just out of arrow range, the Marauding Army waits for sunset. It's a large force.
1. LOCHTER, purely evil leader of the Marauders, is keeping his men in line. (Perhaps violently.)
2. One MARAUDER asks Lochter why they wait: "What about the Gargoyles?"
a. Lochter tells him that every castle in Scotland claims to have Gargoyles. Most are just statues. Soon it'll be dark. The archers won't be able to pick them off. They'll attack.
D. Darkness falls. Silently, the marauding horde climbs the hill. The Captain tells his men not to waste their arrows.
1. Marauders attack, perhaps with grappling hooks and ropes, their own archers, etc. Perhaps one grappling hook flies toward the largest of the stone gargoyles.
a. GOLIATH, the GARGOYLE-MASTER, suddenly comes to life, catching the hook. Play up the transformation big time. (Maybe as he awakens, he shatters a thin outer layer of stone, like shedding a new skin every night. Then again, maybe not.)
2. Goliath flies down upon the marauders, closely followed by many GARGOYLE WARRIORS. Fun action.
a. Maybe it looks for a moment as if Goliath has been dragged down by three or four marauders, but soon he's shrugged them off.
3. Prominent among the warriors is [DEMONA] a FEMALE GARGOYLE, that Goliath seems to favor.
4. Intro ELDER Gargoyle [HUDSON], who coaches from the battlements.
5. Also intro TRIO of "teen-age" Gargoyles [BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY] and their GARGOYLE-DOG [BRONX]. One in particular [Lex] can't wait to be a gargoyle warrior himself.
a. The trio participates in action, but the way they fight brings in humor. More prankish. They make fools of enemy.
E. Gargoyles rout the Marauders who sound the retreat. The battle is over.
II. In throne room, intro the spoiled, beautiful, young QUEEN and her rich, foppish court.
A. Intro semi-dottering old WIZARD. Sweet, but largely ineffectual. Establish that his powers are on the wain. He needs to have his books of spells in front of him to perform any magic.
B. Captain enters with Goliath. They report the victory.
1. Though the Queen is polite on the surface, we can tell she took the victory for granted. We can tell she takes these two for granted. In fact, holds them in contempt.
a. Captain may be a bit of a pig. Tobacco-spitting kinda slob. Queen assumes Goliath's just like him.
b. Queen might also suggest that after this Marauder episode is done with, the Captain will be reporting to LORD FOPWORTH over here. Captain's clearly steamed.
2. Captain and Goliath exit, but before they're out of earshot, they hear the queen make snide, contemptuous comment about Goliath and Gargoyles.
C. Outside the throne room, the Captain and Goliath are joined by the old one [Hudson] and the female [Demona].
1. Captain is really burned up about the way Queen treats Goliath. Wants to know why Goliath puts up with it? Why he stays?
a. Female agrees.
b. Goliath responds on another level. He has the patience to wait for a better day. He sees a lot that's positive about humanity. And he's proud of his own race. Someday, things will get better. Besides, this is his ancestral home. The castle was built on Gargoyle Rookery. Gargoyles are instinctively and atavistically territorial beings. Where would he go?
c. Old Gargoyle is satisfied with answer. He and Goliath walk off.
d. We see that neither the Female nor the Captain find the situation satisfactory.
III. In open courtyard, where peasants are "camped out", we see Gargoyle dog and trio of young 'goyles wreaking havoc. A. They're waking people. Eating food, sloppily. Making a general mess. But not maliciously. They're just having a good time. (This should be a real fun, good time scene.)
1. It looks like fun to Robby the young peasant boy, and he moves to join them.
a. Robby's mom pulls him away. Gargoyles are dangerous and untrustworthy.
b. This really hurts the de facto leader of the trio [Lex]. He decides to live up to the gargoyle reputation and scare them.
c. He succeeds. Robby now believes Gargoyles are bad.
d. Goliath intervenes. Maybe even disciplines. (Though he's not humorless.) It's getting close to sunrise anyway.
2. Gargoyles all move to the battlements and strike a pose. They freeze into stone at daybreak. (We need to really play this up too.)
IV. Daytime in Lochter's camp. Marauders are nursing their wounds.
A. Lochter is visited by a mysterious shrouded figure who wants to make a deal. (Maybe to misdirect the audience, we will put this stranger in the voluminous robes of the Wizard.)
1. In exchange for a fair share of the profits, stranger promises to secure entry for Lochter and his men.
a. And they won't have to worry about Goliath or his Gargoyles.
ACT TWO
V. That night, Captain talks to Goliath, Female Gargoyle and Old One. (Perhaps in front of Queen, as well.)
A. Captain urges Goliath to take all his Gargoyles and chase Lochter's army out of the county.
1. Goliath doesn't like the idea. He basically believes in DEFENSE, not OFFENSE.
2. Captain, with some support from Female, argues that the best Defense is a good Offense.
a. Besides, Goliath doesn't have to battle Lochter's forces, he just has to put a good scare into them so they'll never come back.
3. Goliath reluctantly agrees, but he's not going to take all the gargoyles with him. He'll go alone.
4. Female takes him aside. It isn't safe. He could never fight off all of Lochter's army alone. She's worried about him.
a. But Goliath has no intention of fighting. And he can be plenty scary enough, by himself. (Makes a scary gargoyle face to prove it.)
b. She says, at least, let me go with you for back-up.
c. He claims he needs her (his best warrior) to stay behind at the castle. (But it's clear that truthfully, he doesn't want to put her at needless risk.)
d. To make her feel better, he agrees to take Old One with him, in case something goes wrong. But the rest will maintain their nightly vigil.
5. Goliath and Old One take off after Marauders.
B. Lochter gets word from the traitor: there's been a slight change in plans.
VI. Intercut between the following:
A. Goliath and Old Gargoyle follow the tracks of the Marauders by starlight.
1. Goliath is impressed by how fast the army has traveled in one day.
B. Another fun scene with the Trio and their dog, before they are chased off by frightened and annoyed humans.
1. They explore the bowels of the castle and find the ancient caverns of the Gargoyle rookery that the castle was built on.
C. The Captain is giving some odd orders to his night guards. Sending them away from weapons' room. Etc.
1. He is examining their bowstrings, etc.
VII. Goliath and Old Gargoyle catch up with "army", only to discover it is a small band of men running abreast without equipment.
A. Goliath realizes something's definitely wrong. He and the Old One head back to the castle. But it's almost dawn.
B. The sun comes up.
1. Goliath and Old One are frozen, en route back to castle.
2. Trio and Dog are frozen in bowels of castle.
3. Gargoyle warriors are frozen on parapets.
4. Archers take up their stations, unaware that their bows have been sabotaged.
5. The captain (i.e. the traitor) gives the signal for Lochter's men to attack.
VIII. Lochter and his army attack.
A. Each bowman gets off one shot, before their bowstrings snap. (The Captain had tampered with them.)
1. Soon the castle is overrun.
2. And it doesn't help that the Captain opens the gates as well. This is probably all we see. The rest [in brackets] is just for story-tracking purposes.
[ 3. The battle is short.
B. The castle is sacked.
1. Anything worth anything is taken by the marauders.
2. All the humans including the Queen and the Wizard and Robby and his mom are put in chains and dragged off.
C. Lochter's men begin to destroy the stone Gargoyles with maces.
1. Captain tries to stop it. This wasn't part of the deal and isn't necessary anyway.
a. If Marauders leave territory with their slaves and booty, the gargoyles won't follow. It's not in their nature.
2. Lochter isn't taking any chances. All the gargoyles are destroyed.
a. Ultimately, the Captain has no choice.]
IX. Fade to sunset. Goliath and Old One awaken and hightail it back to castle.
A. They arrive long after Lochter has left. A small fire still burns here and there.
1. The castle has been sacked of all valuables.
2. There are no people.
3. And worst of all, the Gargoyles have all been destroyed, i.e. murdered.
a. They lie in stone rubble all around him. Partial pieces, etc.
b. There is no particular sign of the female; Goliath assumes that she is among the rubble. Big time FURY.
ACT THREE
X. The trio and dog emerge from rookery caverns. (Maybe they were temporarily trapped there by damage done during the battle.) They are torn up by what they find.
A. Goliath and Old One are relieved that someone survived. But that doesn't abate their anger.
1. Together, the six gargoyles fly off to get their revenge.
XI. Lochter's army has encamped for the night.
A. We see our Marauder taunt Robby and his mother outside in chains.
B. Inside his tent, Lochter and the Captain discuss how much ransom they can get for the Queen.
1. They figure the wizard is probably worthless.
a. Wizard wishes he could just get his hands on his books of magic.
b. Lochter taunts him with the books, burning them one by one. (Only one left.)
C. Outside the gargoyles attack. Lots of fun and action here.
1. Gargoyles are way out-numbered.
2. Old one is old. But he picks up a sword and holds his own.
3. Trio and Dog have little fighting experience.
a. Trio leader [Lex] makes use of some of the "scare" techniques that worked on the peasants in act one.
b. [Lex] saves Robby's mother from Marauder.
c. Robby saves him from one too.
4. Goliath is a holy terror. Wading into the hordes. Tossing them aside. Scaring the stuffing out of them.
D. Lochter and Captain hear the noise and look outside.
1. Despite the overwhelming odds, the Gargoyles are winning.
2. Captain says they better get out now.
3. Lochter dumps the last magic book and grabs the queen.
a. Wizard tries to stop him, but is pushed aside.
b. Lochter says he'll never see the queen again.
c. Wizard assumes they're going to kill her.
4. Lochter and Captain flee with Queen in tow.
5. Goliath sees them go. Follows alone.
E. Wizard stumbles out of tent with last magic book.
1. Battle is winding down.
a. Freed peasants and guards are now helping gargoyles.
b. Marauders retreat, scatter.
c. Queen is nowhere in sight.
2. Irrational Wizard blames gargoyles for causing the queen's death.
a. Using his spell book, he curses them. [See spell options below.]
XII. Goliath catches up with Captain and Lochter.
A. Captain tries to reason with Goliath.
1. Tells him he never meant for Gargoyles to be destroyed.
2. Besides, what does Goliath owe the queen anyway. Now he can return to his rookery and be left in peace.
B. Goliath rejects Captain's excuses.
1. The Captain had taught him to go on offensive. "See what your lessons have wrought." Etc.
C. Goliath defeats (kills?) Lochter and Captain.
1. Rescues grateful (and much changed and matured) Queen.
XIII. Goliath and Queen return too late.
A. Though it is still night, the other Gargoyles have been turned to stone.
B. Wizard feels like garbage when he finds out the truth.
1. But he can't undo the spell. Lochter burned his other books.
C. Queen says that her people will not return to the cursed castle. They will start a new life/build a new castle elsewhere in the kingdom.
1. She sincerely invites Goliath to join them.
D. Goliath says no. He will return to the rookery.
E. Only gift that Wizard can offer is to cast the same spell on Goliath that he cast on the other gargoyles. (Or perhaps a slight variation.)
1. Goliath agrees to this.
XIV. The stone Gargoyles are perched on the abandoned castle walls by the humans. Robby waves goodbye.
A. One DAY, 1000 years later.
1. XAVIER is looking over his newly purchased ancient castle.
a. "Terrific," he says, "Now move it to Manhattan."
END OF PART ONE
[NOTE: DEMONA's story tracks as well. Like the Captain, she hates to see the way Goliath and the Gargoyles are treated by the spoiled Queen. She and the captain make a deal. They will convince Goliath to temporarily remove the Gargoyles from the castle. Lochter will sack it and take away the humans as slaves, leaving the empty castle for Demona, Goliath and the rest of the Gargoyles.
Goliath screws up the plan by refusing to take all the Gargoyles away. Captain says, no problem. He'll sabotage his archers and the attack can take place during the day. He promises to protect the frozen Gargoyles.
Demona agrees, but just before dawn she gets nervous and flies away to hide.
She returns at some point (though Goliath won't see her). She sees the destroyed 'goyles and realizes that Goliath would never forgive that. She flies away to find a new life. Somehow, she will survive into the twentieth century, by which time, three factors will have turned her bitter and evil and eventually make her Goliath's worst enemy. (1) Her largely negative and criminal experiences since she last saw Goliath. (2) Goliath's inability to forgive her, (as much as he might wish he could). (3) Goliath's modern loyalty to humans, particularly Elisa Chavez.
In light of this, we should probably bring her back in @part Four of five-parter. She eventually teams up w/Xavier, raising the stakes, and tying part one to the rest of the story. However, though we should plant the clues, we shouldn't give any real indication that she was part of the Captain/Lochter conspiracy in Part One. All the revelations about her roll in the betrayal should wait until we see her again in 20th Century.]
SPELL OPTIONS
For initial spell that Wizard casts upon Old One, Trio and Dog in anger...
1) Frozen in stone for 1000 years.
2) Frozen in stone 'til castle rests in the clouds.
3) Frozen in stone so long as this castle stands on this ground.
For spell Wizard casts upon Goliath, as the best he can do for him.
1) Same, or maybe the slight variation of 999 years, giving Goliath a headstart, and an ability to see if it's safe.
2) Same.
3) Same.
4) He will continue his endless cycle of sleeping as stone in day, guarding the castle and his friends at night until either 1), 2) or 3) occurs.
Advantages and Disadvantages to various choices:
The main question, is whether or not Goliath has been awake and alone every night for a thousand years. (Goliath option 4)). If he has, it would allow him to be at least passingly familiar that modern technology exists. I.e. when we get him to NYC and he sees an airplane, he won't think it's a dragon. Plus there's the tragedy of that much loneliness. And the possibility down the road of one or two flashback episodes (Goliath fights in WWII or something). Disadvantages include that it adds a layer of complication to the spell. And maybe we like the idea that he thinks an airplane is a dragon. (Although keep in mind, we can always play those beats with the other 'goyles.)
As to the other gargoyles, the main issue is when do you want them to wake up. If it's not until after the castle is installed at the top of the skyscraper, than option 3) doesn't work. 1000 years makes a nice round number, but is it a stiff coincidence that the 1000 years ends in NYC? Probably no more so than the Castle in the Clouds curse, though the latter may have more ambience.
And again, if we want Goliath awake BEFORE the castle arrives in NYC, i.e. on the boat, than we have to vary the spell with him to some degree or else it won't be possible.
Right now we're leaning toward Goliath Option 4) "the endless cycle" coupled w/ Option 2) "the castle in the clouds". There is some concern that the Wizard casting two spells may be awkward though. So it's still open for discussion.
That's it.
I'm feeling like my smart-ass responses just haven't been very sharp lately.
So appropos of nothing, I'm taking a poll.
If you've got a few minutes, go through the smart-ass response archive and copy and paste your favorite one.
Maybe if you guys point out the "classics" to me, it'll help me redefine my mission on this score.
Hey guys,
For the last couple hours, I've been trying a new system wherein in addition to my responses/answers/rambles/rants being placed in there appropriate subject-based archives, I'm also supposed to automatically add them to a chronological archive. In this case "RESPONSES 2001 - 2 (Feb)"
Unfortunately, I didn't start this first thing this morning. It was a good idea that came later in the day from one of your fellow fans. So some early-in-the-day responses won't make it into this new archive.
And, unfortunately again, I'm trying to learn a new habit here. It isn't literally automatic. I have to remember to do it. And I've forgotten to click that button on a couple of messages. Sorry.
I'll try to do better.
Just a request, something I've been meaning to ask about for ages.
Since the answers shown are only for what you've said in the last few replies, it means that if anybody misses more than a week or so then they have to trawl through all the individual archives. You mentioned that you decide what archives posts go in, so would it be possible to run separate archives just for the last, say, month or so. You know, so you click on "February 2001" for all the posts that month?
I don't suppose it's possible with existing archives, but if it's possible with the ones in future, could you please do something like this? :)
Yes. It's possible and a good idea.
It's too late for the questions I've already answered today. But it'll work starting now.
The only problem is that the archives are alphabetized.
So I'll start with the year, than the month, numerically.
2198 CONTEST
518: operating
YES!
WAY TO GO ADAM! 1 point!!!!
Just three blanks left: 74, 517, 519.
Remember, I'm giving out TWO prizes. One to the person who got the MOST correct answers, and one to the person who gets the LAST correct answer. So anyone can still win!
2198 CONTEST
517: obtained
nope
2198 CONTEST
517: targeted
519: heavenward
nope
2198 CONTEST
74: protected
517: retained
518: abilities
519: challenges
nope. Sorry. But keep trying.
I know you said you won't be answering any questions on Gargoyles 2198 until the contest is over but the question I am going to ask is this. In the future would any gargoyles go to university or collage? I just wanted to ask because here in the Yukon the local collage offers night courses and in the gargoyles universe gargoyles are nocturnal and I bet they might attend school at night in the future with humans who also attend night classes?
Sure.
College, though. Not Collage.
Greg,
I'm no physicist but your theories of time-travel are different than others that i've heard. I bet you've seen the "Back to the Future" trilogy, so why is it, that things Marty and the Doc did back in the past change the outcome of the future for them, because it was obvious that the past couldn't be altered until the Doc invented the time machine in the present so they could go back to the past. So the future they were familiar with when they were in the past was different when they finally came back into the future (present). (Say that ten times over...)
So, my point is, in Gargoyles, Goliath says "Time is like a river, unchanging in its course." Basically that says anything they did in the past using the Phoenix Gate did not effect the future at all? Which is confusing, because if I were to go back and save JFK, that would certainly alter the future for me and anyone else that came back with me...
On Star Trek they believe in infinite possibilies for every outcome and decision.
I know, I know...Just answer my question about the Gargoyles part. We would need Einstein to explain this quantum stuff. Hey, maybe I'll jump in my time machine and go get him. :)
<Sigh> I thought the first Back to the Future movie was very entertaining. I thought the second was masturbatory (excuse my language) and I thought the third was mildly amusing.
But I thought the time travel logic was fairly loose (at best). Look, I'm no physicist either. This is all make-believe. But I wanted STRICT, STRICT rules in the garg universe to eliminate the kinds of abuses that Star Trek writers (for example) are prone to doing. Cheats that start as time-travel cheats, but wind up being story cheats, character cheats, etc.
And in the garg universe, if you went back in time to save JFK, you'd fail. Or you'd succeed. But he'd decide to go into deep hiding or travel to Avalon or to the year 2002 or something, so that history as we know it would still be exactly the same.
Hope this gets through in time. The annual ritual of consulting Greg's Oscar picks.
So, who do you like for Best Picture? Actor? Actress?
1. What are my options?
The truth is, I've seen so FEW movies this year, I'd be a lousy judge. Why don't we wait until the nominees come out, then ask me again.
(And did we do this last year? I have no memory.)
Going over various lists of voice actors, writers, producers and such for various TV shows, as is a hobby of mine... And under listings for "Captain Simian and the Space Monkies", there is a writer named Marlowe Weisman. Relation or just a coincidence?
I know Marlowe. In fact, I once hired him to work at Disney, when I was an exec here. But we're not related.
What is the Gargoyle's bible?
Where could I find it?
The "Gargoyles Bible" is a document I wrote before the production of scripts for the first season (and then revised before the production of scripts on the second season) as a guide for our writers (and whoever else was working on the series). Something to help them understand character, backstory, context, etc.
I know someone's got it posted on the web. And eventually, I'll get around to posting it here too.
One quick question: will there ever be a Gargoyles video game? Or is there one already?
There was one. (Or two, depending on your definition.)
CITY OF STONE
[flexes fingers] Gonna be doing a LOT of typing about this one.
The opening scenes with the hostage situation are pretty good (Terrorist fires off a round of gun-fire and Matt wryly responds, "Think they're starting to see it our way?" The more I think about it, the more I realize how fun this guy is).
Slow person that I am, I didn't pick up on the Weird Sisters' oddity until they started talking to Goliath. Then they disappeared and that sort of clinched it. I knew they were talking about Demona (an idea probably helped by my reading a "Disney Adventures" article on GARGOYLES that litterally described her as a "Gargoyle terrorist").
The heretofore(sp?) unseen conversation between Demona and the Captain is finally revealed (and thanks to your ramble, the reason Demona looked a bit aged in some of the shots--that always drives me CRAZY!). On about my second viewing (I'm still slow) I finally picked up that the "Dawn Attack" was a back-up plan, and the original plan was attacking at night with the gargoyles away from the castle.
It always kills me to see Demona ALMOST tell Othello and Desdemona...and then not. Just like it always kills me later when she ALMOST accepts responsibility for what just happened...and then pushes it off on the humans. The first time I saw that, I was almost literally left breathless, it just seemed so...I don't know--I really cannot describe what that scene made me feel.
Backtracking a bit--The "Tears of Stone" are indeed a nice touch. Very effective, even the second time. In fact that whole sequence where Demona kisses the Goliath statue good-bye is one of the more heartbreaking parts in the series (especially considering the fact that now Demona tries to KILL Goliath).
Love the shattered "Coldstone-head" and Demona's anguished wail/roar; an excellent Act-ender.
The Eggs--You're right, I never gave them a thought after Xanatos mentioned them. Even after this, I didn't give them much thought, for much the same reason as Todd (a thousand years? Honey, they're dead by now--Avalon? Well now, that's different).
Gillcomgain (however you spell it). I liked the trickle of blood that came through his hands after Demona had slashed him. That's just the fiend in me.
Back in the present:
I entirely bought Demona's story about how she lived forever. Xanatos' interest in immortality caught me by surprise a bit. Wasn't this like the first time his desire to live forever was brought up?
"Listen, or watch, but not both." I wondered why Xanatos seemed so intent about this, and it took Hudson's explanation in the next episode for me to catch on. But I like it. It gives that extra complication to the magic.
Yeah, Owen being mesmerized and lifted into a chair while Demona gave the final phrase of the spell was a bit of a cheat. I try to rationalize it, like always (she...had a special talisman palmed in her hand--yeah, yeah!).
Then the Weird Sisters as "Modern Maidens" (if you will). Yeah, Phoebe looking at Seline while she's addressing Luna is a bit aggrivating, but on my tape, as she's finishing the line, after turning her head to Seline, Pheobe's eyes look back in Luna's direction. Maybe in times of great excitement Pheobe just gets her sisters mixed up (for half a second).
Demona and the guards. Yeah, she did NOT age well. The guards--in my mind, they're dead (that mace coming down seemed pretty final to me). I liked that about this 4-parter--people actually DIED. It added more emotional weight.
Demona's Second (I KNEW IT! I just KNEW that was John Rhys-Davies doing his voice). Yeah, I like him too, probably because he was the only other gargoyle in Demona's band who spoke and managed to develop a definitive personality (even when he wasn't speaking, his animated actions/reactions were great). Considering what happens to him off-screen in part 4...so much for not personalizing the victims.
The Weird Sisters as gargoyles--good, and I love their designs.
Ah, the happy days of Macbeth's youth. Like Todd, I find it all the more despicable of Duncan to order Findlaech's(sp?) death after Findlaech's true pledge of loyalty. Bodhe's cowerdice did register for me, but I only REALLY began to take full note of it as the multi-parter progressed and in later viewings.
The Hunter (I LOVE that title--any one word title that has a "The" before it just really piques my fancy). Yeah, I knew it was Gillcomgain (thanks to the painted scars on the mask). Yeah, the more I thought on it the less sense it made that no one would suspect him with those scars on his face. Still, he did wear a hood, and the very nature of his business may make a few people want to overlook any similarities, assuming they even had time to make note of the scars on the Hunter's mask before he A) gutted them or B) disappeared again.
Findlaech's death is the "fall-death," but I don't mind it too much here, and Macbeth's reaction makes it all the more tragic.
Demona saves the young couple. It's actually nice to see her make the "good-guy" choice here. It still shows a glimmer of what she once was, as opposed to how she now acts.
Unfortunately, no I never got the impression that Gillcomgain was going to attack Prince Duncan. But on the plus side the Weird Sisters' appearance really gave the scene an extra impact.
For the record, I was thrilled when I heard Jim Cummings as the Hunter--I think this guy does great voice work.
It was nice seeing Fox here (I had forgotten that in the original outline Derek was the pilot. I'm probably being redundant, but I'm glad you guys were able to go with Fox, it personalizes things even more for Xanatos). And the whole "humans turned to stone" thing really worked for me. When Owen changed, it was just shock--seeing the true nature of the spell. Fox's, more amazing for the danger it put both her and Xanatos in at that moment. Elisa's...her's was the eeriest, due in part to the camera shot and the closing music. I couldn't wait to see the next episode.
Be careful with the rest of these rambles--When it comes to CITY OF STONE I tend to be very long winded and go over almost every scene.
Fine with me. I'm having fun reading everyone's responses. The more detailed the better.
Jim R. and i were just discussing how to get certain with-held info from you by tricking you when we realized just how ruthless we fans can be. thats okay, cuz your smart-ass responses are worth not getting the answers we seek. keep up the good work!!!
Uh, thanks. SO... you and Jim R. are a team?
Oh. And here I thought he was picking on you.
Me so dumb.
I always loved City of Stone 1-4.
My favorite moments :
- Demona smashing the soldiers at the food raid. Vengeance never tasted so cold.
- Gillecomegain entrance at Moray. Nice cloak.
- Demona ripping the mask off Gillecomegain. Demona never realized that she ruined a little boy's life.
- Duncan quote about the mask to baby Canmore.
- The coronation of Luach by Bodhe. Very dramatic.
- Final battle at the Eyrie Building. The double-punch by Demona-MacBeth at Goliath was priceless.
- Xanatos' quote about 'fire at them, sort this out later'.
- The mask passing from one Hunter to another during the whole series.
- And of course, Oeqn's note about 'even cable'.
My only complaints:
- Demona waiting all night to make up her mind on revealing or not her bargain with the captain.
- Demona didn't slaughter Katherine and Magus to retake the eggs.
- Gillecomegain putting the mask to kill MacBeth. Hey buddy, you only for the hunt!
- MacBeth comment about Robots/Gargoyles taking off from the world tallest building in a frozen city. Frozen or not, you can still notice Robots/Gargoyles taking off from the world tallest building.
Yes, but there are fewere distractions.
My ramble-response on "City of Stone Part Two".
I very much enjoyed it (like the other parts of "City of Stone"). A few specific thoughts:
The 11th century flashbacks continued to be good ones. I particularly liked Macbeth and Gruoch's scene on the hill, the "villains-fall-out" part between Duncan and Gillecomgain, and Duncan's afterwards duping Macbeth into going against Gillecomgain. (One thing that I recently found myself wondering was whether Duncan was hoping to trick Macbeth into killing Gillecomgain for him as a means of disposing of a former henchman who was now becoming of a problem to him, as a means of forcing Gillecomgain into killing Macbeth by having Macbeth attack him, or maybe even whether he was hoping that they'd kill each other and get rid of two problems for him at once).
One thing that strikes me about the Duncan of "City of Stone" (here already in the first two parts and even more in Part Three): he's a lot closer to the Macbeth of Shakespeare than the Macbeth of "City of Stone" is. Duncan is here the one who ensures a clear path to the throne by murdering the opposition; furthermore, he moves against Macbeth in a manner almost evocative of Macbeth's moving against Banquo in the play, because of the fear that Macbeth will cheat him and his future lineage of the throne. (It strikes me as significant that Duncan renews his scheming against Macbeth after Canmore's birth, as if that was the catalyst for it: now he has a future dynasty to protect, rather than just his own personal ambitions). The one significant difference is that the Duncan of "Gargoyles" never shows any of the internal torment or remorse that the Macbeth of Shakespeare shows over his criminal deeds; apparently Prince Duncan is much more hardened and callous.
I also like the touch of Demona genuinely failing to recognize Gillecomgain as the boy she attacked back in 994, even after he spells it out to her. (Definitely fits Demona's character a lot).
For the present-day parts: I liked Jeffrey Robbins' return, and thought that it was well-integrated into the story. Demona's massacre was very chilling. As for Xanatos shutting off the broadcast, I picked up on later showings the notion that he initially thought that that would be enough to undo Demona's spell, but I'm not so certain that it occurred to me the first time around.
The thing that interests me most about the ending, actually, isn't so much Xanatos and Goliath calling a truce as the fact that it's Xanatos who brings up the need for a truce with the words "Do you want vengeance, or a solution?" Temporary truces between the hero and the villain over a common foe happen often in adventure cartoons - but how often is it the villain who realizes the need for it first and has to convince the hero of it? The line tells us a lot, I think, about Xanatos's uniqueness: he has common sense, and the clear understanding that finding a way to undo Demona's spell is a much greater priority than just looking for someone to punish.
Looking forward to the rambles on the remaining two parts.
me too for yours...
Jim R., i think that Greg explained time travel pretty well and it makes sense to me. if you were to go back in time to save JFK one way or another you failed cuz JFK was assasinated! its like Xanatos said, "You won't, because you didn't. Time travels funny, that way." you wouldn,t succeed it saving JFK because you obviously didn't save him, he was killed despite what you would do. another example is "M.I.A." Goliath knew from meeting Leo and Una that Griff didn't come home that night so when he went back in time even if he did everything to keep Griff in his time something else would have happened. Griff would have been killed etc. time is like a river and any attempt to change it will end in failure because if history had been changed you would never had wanted to try and change it in the first place! does all this make sense?
Yeah!
I just returned from a vacation in Disney Land. (Boy, was it crowded!) So I figured that I could find some Gargoyle merchandise there; those stores have everything Disney. I walked into one, then another...and another...and another...with no luck. Not a single piece of Gargoyles merchandise anywhere in the park!!!
In one store, I asked an employee, "Do you have any Gargoyles stuff?"
He replied, "I...don't know what you mean...I don't know what a Gargoyles is."
It's nice to know that Disney employees know so much about there company's works. (And they use good grammar, too!) I have searched everywhere for Garg stuff, without luck. Where can I find it? Why isn't there any to be found; especially in Disney Land?
I don't know. It's a source of much frustration to me, believe me.
Hey Greg what would your other self be doing right now in the gargoyles universe?
Writing about all you nutty humans, I guess.
Re your comment on changing Broadway's character from female to male:
Well, maybe it was cowardice, but I'm certain that it was a good thing for Angela that you did. She wouldn't have been able to have had a S&P-approved relationship with Broadway otherwise, after all :)
Now, I can't really imagine it any other way.
Chronology questions, instigated by the City of Stone memo you posted... What years did the births of Gillecomgain, Canmore and Luach take place?
I know this. But it's at my Beverly Hills office, not here at Disney. SOrry. Try again later.
Had to ask this and I didn't see it in the archives, so here goes:
1.What companies did the the animations for the two episodes, Temptation and Future Tense? I was wondering because they did an awful good job considering some of the animation I've seen on some other nameless television shows.
2.(This may have been asked already but I don't think so.)If you had a chance to get the series going again, would you use CGI or the old animation style if you could. I guess it kinda depends on what is actually more expensive. I was always a little partial to the regular animation myself.
1. This is from memory, but I'm fairly certain both of those were done by Walt Disney TV Animation Japan. It says on the episode credits, though.
2. Largely it would depend on what I could sell the higher-ups on. I'd do either if either were the only option. If given my choice (which rarely happens in this business), said choice would be based on issues of content.
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