A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Ask Greg Archives
Xanatos, David
Archive Index
: « First : « 25 : Displaying #222 - #246 of 271 records. : Last » :
Posts Per Page: 1 : 10 : 25 : 50 : 100 : All :
ANONYMOUS writes...
Not sure if you have answered this but if you have I am sorry to have repeated it. In TGC and by the end of the original show that you worked on it is shows that Xanatos has reformed now that he has Alexander.
1) Is he really reformed or is it just another ploy of his?
2) Why didn't he have the mutates turned back into humans if he was?
3) Would the mutates want to be turned back into humans? Being mutates let's them to help others better than when they were human.
4) Why did Xanatos's go after Derek to make him into Talon? I know that it was not some vindictive plan of his against Elisa since you have mentioned before that he isn't the sort to seek vengeance on someone.
Greg responds...
1. He hasn't reformed, but his priorities have shifted somewhat. He certainly feels kindly toward the Gargoyles, though that would never stop him from using them -- just from harming them.
2. I don't think he can.
3. Fang does not want to turn back. I think Talon, and maybe even Maggie and Claw have accustomed themselves as well. Though if presented with an actual bona fide opportunity to change back, it would be interesting to see if they took it.
4. Control. And means of control.
Yehat writes...
Hi,
I just looked at some episodes recently and something funny struck me. The Eyrie Building's. Its main gate's castle was wide open even though we were many hundreds of meters.
Do you suppose Xanatos should have closed that gate or did he found a practical use for it?
Greg responds...
I'm not sure I understand your question...
You're saying that up at the top of the Eyrie, Wyvern's gate is open?
I honestly never noticed.
Maybe he was trying to create a welcoming environment.
matt writes...
while watching "The Price" tonight, something struck me for the first time: when Xanatos builds the robot to distract the Clan while he does his thing with Hudson, why does he model the robot after MacBeth? he could've modeled any number of 'villains' or even a new character, so why MacBeth?
Greg responds...
I think he felt that Macbeth would be the perfect character for misdirection. Had he chosen Demona, there would have been a greater risk of Goliath et al figuring out that it was a robot, because they know Demona so well. And obviously, he didn't want to chose any villains (Pack members, Thailog) that Goliath would associate with him.
Plus he needed someone that Goliath would believe knew some sorcery -- in order for his con to work.
Obviously, there were other options. But his pick made sense.
Todd Jensen writes...
My ramble on "Upgrade".
I'll confess, for a start, that "Upgrade" isn't one of my favorite episodes, due mostly to the fact that it seemed much more like a half-hour "slugfest" than is generally the case with "Gargoyles" (although, given that we're dealing with the Pack here, I suppose it's inevitable - they're not the most subtle antagonists out there, after all). But it had some parts of it that I rather liked.
The transformations of Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf definitely freaked me out. In fact, the first time that I saw this episode, I tried to believe, for a while, that Jackal and Hyena were simply wearing fancy mechanical armor, but the evidence against that was too strong; I had to face the facts, in the end, and realized that they'd become cyborgs. And that definitely chilled me. (In Wolf's case, I didn't even have the option of finding an alternative explanation; it was too obvious that he'd been mutated.) Those three had permanently changed, on the physical level, from what they'd been in "The Thrill of the Hunt". They were no longer fully human. In fact, to me, the real significance of their alterations in "Upgrade" wasn't what you'd pointed out (they need to be upgraded so that it won't be too easy for the gargoyles to take them down - though I did see that there) but rather the way that the three of them were growing less human, their physical transformation being almost an outward sign of their increasing degeneracy.
By contrast, I liked Dingo's refusal to become physically upgraded, and horror at what his teammates had done to themselves. In fact, that was definitely when I began to like Dingo, as opposed to seeing him as just another member of the Pack (as he'd been to me up until then). (It certainly echoed my response to their transformations, which, I suspect, was how most of the audience was similarly responding). I wasn't surprised, therefore, when he was no longer with the Pack in "Grief" afterwards, or when he was shown seeking to "go straight" in "Walkabout". This was definitely the point where we see the "break with Eastcheap" (I chose that particular phrase inspired by your idea of Dingo's real name being Harry Monmouth, and the parallel is definitely there - though I might add that I don't see any of his former Pack-mates being a Falstaff-figure - more on the level of Falstaff's associates like Bardolph or Pistol, perhaps, but not scaling the heights of comic genius of Sir John himself - not that they were meant to.)
We also see the definite introduction (though it'd been hinted at in "Leader of the Pack") of Hyena's interest in Coyote, which has to count as the most bizarre relationship in "Gargoyles"; even Jackal gets nauseated by it, and this is a guy whose idea of a good time is redesigning Goliath's features in his stone sleep.
One side-note: re Hyena's wondering aloud whether gargoyles taste like chicken. I've sometimes wondered why the phrase is "tastes like chicken" as opposed to "tastes like beef" or "tastes like pork", or "tastes like turkey". Just one of life's little mysteries, I suppose.
On the gargoyles' side, we get to see Brooklyn becoming the new second in command. I will admit that I honestly hadn't wondered about that issue until the episode came out. (I've occasionally wondered if Goliath didn't pick one before this episode had anything to do with it having last been filled by Demona, but that's probably a bit of a stretch.) I did think that Brooklyn fitted the role well, and liked the bit at the end where he admits that he's not in that big a hurry to take Goliath's place. And where Goliath offers the role to Hudson, but Hudson declines it.
I still get a kick out of Fox's little public service announcement: "Don't 'Pack' it in. Take the train." Pretty clever of her.
I don't find Officer Morgan's remark that troublesome; in fact, I found it quite amusing.
Incidentally, Xanatos's remark at the end about having found a true equal in Fox reminds me of your analysis of Theseus, where you saw him as having found his equal in the Amazon Queen Hippolyta/Antiope. It makes me wonder whether you'd included a little of your perception of Theseus and Hippolyta in Xanatos and Fox (whether consciously or otherwise). Come to think of it, there's even a slight connection between the two couples, via "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
Greg responds...
Taking your points in reverse order:
One of the great ironies of the series is that the one character who truly builds a healthy relationship (prior to Broadway & Angela in "The Journey") is Xanatos. The BAD GUY.
Heavily influenced by "The Warrior's Husband" and "The Bull from the Sea", I do see Theseus and Antiope as being true equals and the correct match.
But I'm not sure that's influencing X & Fox so much as that ANY great man would WANT a great woman, not a trophy or showpiece or weak link. Xanatos would no more settle for a weak wife than he'd want Owen to throw a judo practice.
By the same token, Goliath loves and respects Elisa and Broadway loves and respects Angela. They are equals.
Maybe it's just the way I think the world should work.
"Tastes like chicken" has entered the vernacular, I think. I first heard it in reference to Rattlesnake meat, and at the time that may have been someone's sincere way to describe what the serpent tastes like.
But since then, I've heard the phrase applied to almost any exotic carnivorous matter. I've never heard beef, pork or turkey used the same way.
The degeneracy of Wolf, Hyena and Jackal was definitely part of our intent.
George writes...
Who is the Gargoyles Arch Nemisis?
Greg responds...
There isn't just one: Xanatos, Demona and Thailog all come immediately to mind. But I never tried to limit the possibilities.
Aaron writes...
Hi Greg. Long-winded question, so bear with me.
One of the recurring themes of Western story-telling is that those who "tamper in God's domain", to borrow a phrase, will be struck down for their hubris. After the enterance of Frankenstein into our collective consciousness, one of the "rules" for Western literature is that Frankenstein must always be destroyed by his monster, for his arrogance in playing god.
The reason I bring this up, is that Xanatos is a man who seems to like playing god. And he has left a trail of monsters in his wake.
I'll ignore Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf for the purposes of this question, since it could be argued that they were already monsters who merely allowed their exteriors to be altered to match their true natures. (Although, it could also be argued that those three were tempted by David and his offers of power and vengeance, but at the end of the day, I still think they all damned themselves willingly)
I'd go so far as to even ignore the mutates, because even though they become monsterous looking, they really don't fit the bill as "monsters". They're just ordinary people who, by virtue of making some bad character judgements, find themselves with fur and wings. (Although it probably doesn't help Xanatos' karma any)
But even ignoring those two examples, you still have...
1. Coldstone. Such an obvious Frankenstein archtype that you joked about it. (The "It's alive! ALLLLLLLIVE!" sequence remains one of my favorites from the whole show) Of course, you could lay Coldstone at least partially at Demona's feet as well, so we'll move on.
2. Thailog. Grown in a lab, created with a mixture of different people, (Goliath's body and temper, Xanatos' mind and ethics, Sevarius'... libedo? Whatever accounts for Delilah) he turns almost immediately on his "fathers" You could call Thailog Sevarius' creature rather then Xanatos' except that David is the force behind his creation, and that Anton, for all his mad scientist posturing, could be seen as no more then a lab assistant, an Igor to David's Dr. Frankenstein.
3. The Coyote robot series. Xanatos' most personal "creature", the one to whom he gave his face (well, half of it) and voice. Loyal (?) to David for now, but unless forming the Ultrapack is David's idea, he presumably goes indepentant eventually. That, and we know he sets his sights on galactic domination in 2198, presumably not with his creator's blessing. (Then again, I could be wrong)
4. The Matrix. Created so that David and Fox could reshape the entire planet at their whim. If that's not arrogance, I don't know what is. Admittedly, I don't think it's becoming sentient along the way was part of the plan, and it's inclusion here might be a bit of a stretch, but I thought it was an example of Xanatos' hubris, if nothing else.
So, I guess, after all that lead up, my question is this: Would the pattern hold true? Would one (or all) of Xanatos' "creatures" come back to bite him in the ass later? As Elisa said "I wouldn't want Xanatos' karma."
There is a second part to this question, but I'll submit it separately, in case it's viewed as an idea.
Greg responds...
Well, for starters, I'd argue your premise. Victor Frankenstein's life was certainly decimated by the monster he created and abandoned -- but he survived the experience, sadder and hopefully wiser.
Moreover, it was the abandonment that was his true sin in Mary Shelley's original work. The creation was certainly hybris. But Shelley is pretty darn clear that she viewed the abandonment as worse. And I tend to agree. It's nature vs. nurture. The creature wasn't created evil. He was driven to it.
As to X's karma and whether it will all come back to bite him in the ass, I think the answer is clearly yes. But I really see it as a separate question. That is, it is a karma question more than simply a playing god question. That's one element. But only one. After all, one might argue that David and Fox were playing god by bringing Alexander into the world. But I wouldn't argue that. And I'm sure that's not what you had in mind.
So let's go through the numbers.
I tend to agree that Wolf, Hyena and Jackal built their own cages. And for the record, seem quite happy to live in them.
The Mutates seem to be following the same path as the gargoyles themselves. That is to say, that Xanatos woke the gargoyles, and has often suffered for it since. He then turned these four humans into mutates, and has had to suffer a bit (though admittedly not much) for that. It will be interesting to see Talon's post-Hunter's Moon reaction to Goliath and Co. moving back into the Castle. But the larger truth is that Talon, Maggie and Claw are making lives for themselves.
1. Coldstone. Well, yeah, duh. This is our Frankenstein's monster. But as with most things, Xanatos is too smart to truly follow in Victor's footsteps. He helps create the creature -- and certainly uses it -- but he never simply abandons it. And he also tries to balance (or bury) the Karmic scales, by helping out with Coldstone's Multiple Personality Disorder and by building Coldsteel and Coldfire.
2. Thailog. Here's the big threat, frankly. A guy with something to prove and three fathers to prove it all to. I think Xanatos hasn't seen the last of Thailog. One could argue that Thailog is the only guy to ever beat Xanatos at his own game (in Double Jeopardy). So the hybris of creating him has already bitten X's ass. But I doubt Thailog is through.
3. Coyote... I just don't want to reveal too much on this right now. Sorry.
4. I really think you have to chalk Matrix up to Fox's hybris (and competitive spirit) rather than to David's. She was certainly having the Matrix engineered for her and her man, but that doesn't mean that Xanatos was behind it. That would assume that she cannot operate independently. And I sure as heck wouldn't assume that about her.
So the short answer: yes. But it's all very nuanced.
Doug writes...
I'm sure this has been answered in one episode (probably one of the very few I haven't seen yet), but what exactly does Xanatos Enterprises *do*? I know how Xanatos's fortune got started, but what's he do (tongue-in-cheek) besides sit around and scheme and build robots? I would've liked to see him interact with his company more, but i'll leave it at that because I don't want to border on original ideas :)
Greg responds...
They do many things in many areas. XE is a conglomerate.
They design and manufacture a number of products, including software and hardware and various applications.
Scarab Corp. (the Robotics Company) is a division of XE.
Pack Media and Pack Media Studios are also divisions of XE, producing entertainment properties.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Xanadu writes...
Was the fact that Fox was the only heir to one of Xanatos's biggest competitors have anything to do with his marrying her or does he actually love her?
Greg responds...
As it turns out, as demonstrated in "Eye of the Beholder", BOTH.
Certainly Fox's "compatibility" included her coming inheritence. But Xanatos soon discovered that he actually loved her. Remember?
AngelOfTheNight writes...
Concerning Puck and Demona, In "the Mirror" Demona tells Puck, "You've served the human, now you can serve me", As well as in "City of Stone" she calls Owen "the tricky one".
The rest of us didn't know Owen's true identity until the end of "The Gathering". So my question is, just how and for how long does Demona know Owen is Puck? Sorry if this has already been asked, didnt see it anywhere in the archives. P.S. I was glad to hear that you and yours were safe after the WTC tragedy.
Greg responds...
Um... well, for starters, thanks. But of course, we live in Los Angeles so my family wasn't at tremendous risk.
I'm sure it's in the archives somewhere, but Demona has been aware of Puck/Owen's true identity for quite some time. Puck/Owen introduced Demona to Xanatos some time before the events of AWAKENING.
Samantha writes...
Dexter writes...
Hey Greg,
Call me stupid, but I've seen the pilot "Awakening" several times and I still do not follow the plot! I'm such an idiot. Ok, why did Xanatos got through all that trouble to wake up the Gargoyles just to have them steal disks? Then he used to information on them to makes the Steel Clan, what's the point of that? So now instead of real gargoyles, he had robotic ones. Doesn't make sense. Also, when Goliath and Elisa were attacked in central park, Elisa said she traced the logo back to Cyberbiotics, which Mr. X owned. So does that mean his own people stole disks from him and then he went and restole them back from his own people? Ah! It confuses me. Please clear me up, I've been meaning to ask you about this plot, and now I finally had time to. Thanks!
I can answer part of that! Xanatos did not steal back his own disks. They were from another company, the company that Fox's father owned. Xanatos faked a robbery to make the gargoyles think that when he told them about the disks they were his, when nothing had ever really been stolen from him.
He used the gargoyles to steal these disks to upload his steel clan. By using the Gargoyles, no one would ever suspect him. No one even knew what Gargoyles were I think.
Once he got the stolen disks, he was able to load up his
steel clan, which meant he no longer had a name for the clan.
Since they would be too hard to control, he decided to test his new clan on them. And I'm sure you know the rest. I hope this helps.
Greg responds...
It does. Thank you.
Guys, it just goes to show that the fans are a much better first resource than I am. I just flat out take to long (over a year) to get to your questions.
Dexter writes...
Hey Greg,
Call me stupid, but I've seen the pilot "Awakening" several times and I still do not follow the plot! I'm such an idiot. Ok, why did Xanatos got through all that trouble to wake up the Gargoyles just to have them steal disks? Then he used to information on them to makes the Steel Clan, what's the point of that? So now instead of real gargoyles, he had robotic ones. Doesn't make sense. Also, when Goliath and Elisa were attacked in central park, Elisa said she traced the logo back to Cyberbiotics, which Mr. X owned. So does that mean his own people stole disks from him and then he went and restole them back from his own people? Ah! It confuses me. Please clear me up, I've been meaning to ask you about this plot, and now I finally had time to. Thanks!
Greg responds...
All right, for starters Xanatos made a mistake. He assumed that the Steel Clan would out perform the actual gargoyles, and he was wrong. He was hoping, of course, that he could have both, but Goliath proved less than cooperative. Later, he realized his error and came to value the Gargoyles (even as opponents) much more than he valued his robots.
As to your last bit of confusion, Elisa said she traced the logo back to Xanatos, not Cyberbiotics. You simply misheard.
Lord Sloth writes...
1) After the Gathering (the episode), had the rules of the pact between David and Owen/Puck changed? I'm asking because Owen used his Puck powers in order to save Alexander from Oberon, and then in "Possession" Xanatos actually asked Owen if Puck could wiggle his nose and fix Coldstone for him.
a) In the first case, one could argue that this was something personal that Puck had to settle with Oberon; and so two birds, one stone (is that so?).
b) And in "possession", my only guess is that Xanatos was trying to hint to Puck about how he might turn this into a lesson for Alex, and Puck figured it out latter. Would this be correct?
c) If one or both of these are wrong, could you point out what I am missing?
2) a) Am I right in that training Alex for Oberon takes precedence over not using magic to help Xanatos, and thus Puck is able to work the two into one?
b) Since the Coldstone Dilemma was not really a big priority (like the Oberon one) why did David and Owen try to fond a way to cheat their lifetime of service agreement? It somehow feels that, though Xanatos might cheat other times in his life, this is something he would stay true to, and Owen would hold him to it anyway. (I hope that all came out clearly)
3) And one other thing. I'm sure that playing the part of a straight man has its initial appeal, but fifteen to twenty years of it must be a bit much even for an immortal. So did Puck probably go on many trickster excursions with his time off like in "Future Tense" and "the Mirror" (only without chains) that had nothing to do with Xanatos, in order to relieve some tension?
I don't mean to sound too critical here, as I really love the two above episodes. I'm just trying to understand all of the complex rules that conflict with each other in the show (which, incidentally you did a great job at maintaining).
Dunca Greg.
Greg responds...
1. No, the terms hadn't changed. Puck could justify the Oberon thing, because he was protecting himself from being forced to return to Avalon. And as you may recall, in Possessions, Owen did not just wiggle his nose. Not allowed.
a. More or less.
b. Not really. X was in fact asking for the quick fix. Owen said no. But figured out a way to make a lesson out of it.
c. See above.
2a. Yes.
b. It's clear, but (a) Xanatos wasn't trying that hard to get Owen/Puck to cheat. He made an off-the-cuff-remark. And (b) Puck did what he did (1) to teach Alex (2) because it was fun and (a very distant 3) because it helped Xanatos.
3. Here and there. But I think he really relishes Owen. Don't you?
I don't see any conflict.
Josh Wurzel writes...
Hey Greg,
This one has been bugging me for a while. How on earth did Demona know that raising Castle Wyvern above the clouds would end the spell? She obviously didn't have the entire Grimorum memorized because she said something to the effect of "how could my love be stone at night?" (implying that she didn't recognize the spell, despite studying with the Archmage). And for nearly 1000 years, the book was well out of her reach, first going with the magus and then being whisked to 1970 or some such year by the TimeDancer. By the time Xanatos would have let Demona read it, the castle would already be on top of the tower, best as I can figure.
2) did she tell herself in "Vows" in some scene/dialog we didn't see?
2a) if she didn't tell herself, did her year-974 self look up the spell after the events in "Vows"?
3) Did Demona tell Xanatos about the way to end the spell so that she could get him to raise the castle, or did Xanatos already know about the spell from the Grimorum when he met up with Demona?
4) If he already knew about the spell, then why did he get involved with Demona?
Thanks. I hope these were clear.
Greg responds...
1. You figure wrong. Demona and Xanatos first met before Xanatos even purchased the castle. They began collaborating and planning.
2. No. See above.
2a. See above.
3. I think he may have known about the spell. I'm sure he had the book translated. But he was missing key pieces of information, which Demona provided. Team effort.
4. See above.
matt writes...
i think i figured out when and how Xanatos found out the gargoyles lived in the Clocktower
i don't think Xanatos found out the gargs lived in the Clocktower in Hunters Moon for several reasons.
1) i can't see either Owen or Puck just slipping up like that.
2) Fox and Xanatos just took it way too casually as if they had known for some time.
after viewing some episodes, i'm convinced that Xanatos found out nearly a year before Hunters Moon, possibly before Owen/Puck knew. i think he found out in Eye of the Beholder. heres my reasons.
1) Xanatos places another tracking device on Goliath and then does not remove it for probably at LEAST an hour.
2) when Goliath leaves the castle he takes Elisa with him and in that time Elisa changes into her costume. her costume is probably at one of three places, at her apartment, in her car, or at the police station. if it was at the police station where she put on the costume then Xanatos only has to track them that far and he can figure out the rest (remember that Xanatos was probably tailing them for as much as he could, he may have even snuck into the Clocktower and seen the gargs furnishings). Elisa's car was at the police station and her costume was likely to be there since it is most probable she was planning to go with Goliath directly from the station to the Halloween party. and if her costume was at her apartment it is still very possible that they returned to the Clocktower for Elisa's car at least.
3) the show seemed to suggest that while tracking them, Xanatos was following Goliath and Elisa around and listening to their conversations. its possible that they mentioned the Clocktower and Xanatos could've overheard it.
4) if Elisa could come up with this great home for the gargs, i think that a year later Xanatos has probably had time to think about it and possibly figure it out just by guessing. hes a bright guy, you know...
i also have a couple reasons why Xanatos did not make a big deal or mention that he knew where the gargs were living.
1) this IS Xanatos, why would he reveal his hand, if anything he could save this information for use when he wasn't so busy with other matters.
2) i think that Xanatos is hardly going to make a big deal or even really think about the gargs home being revealed when in this episode (maybe more than any other save The Gathering) he is very emotionally stressed. the woman he loves may die soon, i hardly think he cares at the moment.
3) i think he didn't cause trouble for the gargs after discovering their home due to Goliaths help in saving Fox. this really mirrors his reinstatement of the gargs to Wyvern due to Goliath saving Alex. in fact, immediatly following Eye of the Beholder he certaintly makes large steps in calling truce with Goliath. he was very benevolent to Goliath in Vows and allied with him in City of Stone. i think Xanatos was silently granting Goliath and the clan a break for their help.
so, there is my theory, what do you think? mystery solved?
Greg responds...
If it makes you happy.
matt writes...
1. after i first saw "Awakening" i figured that the rookery of castle Wyvern was behind a door that opened into the same courtyard that the refugees were staying in. if you look at it the Trio and Bronx appear out of that rookery door into the courtyard after the massacre. in "Shadows of the Past" however, we see that if the rookery had been below the castle (or in it) it would've been taken to New York with teh rest of the castle, and it was actually left behind in Wyvern. i'm just curious as to where the rookery actually is (was). below the castle or what? this question isn't intended to find a mistake in the show, just to clarify for me...
2. was there more than one entrance to the rookery?
3. was it a large sequence of caves below the castle and the lands surrounding it?
4. was the rookery in the same place before Castle Wyvern was built?
thanx Greg!
Greg responds...
1. The rookery was beneath the castle proper in a cave. Or rather, the castle was built OVER the rookery.
When Xanatos moved the castle, he moved some of the rock that supported it. We have -- to my knowledge -- never made it clear just how deep into the rock the rookery cave was. It's possible that Xanatos scooped it up too. Or that it was in essence exposed by the removal of castle and "foundation" rock. If X did scoop it up, it's possible he was forced to "fill" the cave in order to create stability. I've never really thought about it before. But I'm not sure why you're sure that the Rookery was left behind in Wyvern. What it comes down to is that it no longer exists as it once did.
2. Probably.
3. It was one largish cave chamber directly below the castle.
4. Yes.
theSquiggyOne writes...
How many versions of the Steel Clan has Xantos created besides the first batch and the batch in the Edge with electric defenses and advanced AI?
Greg responds...
There have only been two models of Steel Clan Robot.
The original model, commissioned by Xanatos, seen in "Awakening, Part V" and "The Edge" and "Double Jeopardy" and "The Price", etc.
And the Iron Clan Robot model, commissioned by Owen Burnett, specifically to battle Oberon and/or Titania, as seen in "The Gathering, Part II". These are larger, and their chassis are made from iron as opposed to steal, but most of the other tech specs are the same.
The so-called "Advanced AI" model that I assume you're referring to from "The Edge" was not a robot at all. But a suit of armor (red in color) that Xanatos wore. Though from the outside it looked like a red version of the robots, it in fact was obviously constructed very differently. I'm not saying they didn't use any of the robot tech on the suit, since they obviously did, but it also required a separate develpoment phase.
matt writes...
i was wondering what your timeline looks like around the time the Clan left the Eyrie Building in Fall 1994.
i watched "Double Jeopardy" tonight and saw that Owen acquiered Goliath's blood samples on November 15. that means the gargoyles left the castle after that, but i also saw that Elisa was there and not on crutches as she was at the beginning of "Enter Macbeth" which makes me think that the "Double Jeopardy" flashback also occured before "Deadly Force". i didn't realize that so much of the first season (six out of the eight episodes, not including "Awakening") happened after mid-November. of course, its even stranger cuz if all that is accurate, there actually is a small flashback in "Enter Macbeth" of Xanatos in his cell cuz his calendar shows late October, weeks before "Deadly Force" and the rest of "Enter Macbeth" would have happened.
is all that right?
when in 1996 (1997?) did the rest of the first season episodes occur? do you have that in your timeline yet?
Greg responds...
Hey matt -- in fact, hey everyone. I'm still pretty busy these days, and the backlog is intimidating, but I figured, if I NEVER got started, I'd never get started, if you know what I mean.
So I'm just going to try to answer one question every week-day.
Anyway, matt, here's an abreviated version of the timeline for this period:
10-28-94 Xanatos anticipates being released by Oct. 31st, the date of his next pre-trial appearance. [There is an outdated calendar on the wall of his cell that fits neither 1994 or 1995. It may not even be his.] (Enter Macbeth)
10-31-94 Xanatos plea bargains a six month sentence with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior (including time served). (Thrill)
11-4-94 Lex makes contact with the Pack. (Thrill)
11-11-94 Brooklyn tests out the motorcycle and encounters Demona. (Temptation) Xanatos' sentence is officially recorded. Elisa checks out the clock tower.
11-12-94 Elisa informs Goliath that Xanatos will be out in a month. (She is exaggerating for effect, as it will actually be closer to two.) Later Demona, casts a spell on Goliath. (Temptation)
11-13-94 Elisa frees Goliath from Demona's spell. (Temptation)
11-15-94 Elisa again attempts to get Goliath to leave castle. Owen gets a cell sample. (Double Jeopardy)
11-18-94 Broadway accidentally shoots Elisa. (Deadly Force)
12-27-94 The clan enoys a pleasant night at the castle. Xanatos is still counting down days in prison. (Enter Macbeth)
12-31-94 Sevarius begins to clone Goliath. (Double Jeopardy)
1-3-95 Macbeth attacks the clan at the castle. (Enter Macbeth)
1-4-95 The gargs move to the clock tower. Xanatos is released from jail. (Enter Macbeth) Later, he checks in with Sevarius. (Double Jeopardy)
As for the rest of the first season...
The Edge, Long Way To Morning and Her Brother's Keeper all take place in January '95. Reawakening takes place in February of '95.
Chapter XXXIII: "The Price"
Ramble, ramble, ramble...
The other night my family and I sat down to watch "The Price"...
Director: Dennis Woodyard.
Writer & Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Based on Comic Book Material by Lee Nordling
RECAP
It seems like I was starting to learn my lesson about not giving too much away in the "Previously on Gargoyles" section. This one is really all about Hudson, and issues of old age and mortality. I think it tends to hint that maybe, just maybe, we were thinking of killing him off. Anyone else think that perhaps we might?
There's some really great, really good looking character work in this animation. Pretty stuff.
There's a great moment where Hudson banks off an office building. Very cool.
Also, I like it on those rare occasions when we do weather in New York. Snow here. Or rain. Usually, it's all left standard for the same reason Elisa usually wears the same clothes. It's cheaper.
As the story opens, we're again trying to set Hudson up for possible termination, at least in the minds of the audience. He says, "Not a bad life all things considered..." which is usually an invitation for something really horrible to happen.
TIER STUFF
This is the last episode of our third tier. I had always hoped it would air last, since what happens at the end to Owen's hand would make interchanging very difficult. But on the first go-round it was ready long before a couple of other eps in the tier. So it aired early. (Particularly before Owen's appearance in "The Cage".) I tried to correct that for later runs. Sometimes with success. Sometimes not.
Anyway, because I couldn't be sure it would air in the right order, you can see that we hedged our bets a bit. Goliath doesn't understand how Macbeth escaped the Weird Sisters. He's not referring to events in "High Noon" which he could not have known about and which I could not guarantee would air before "Price". He's referring to events in "City of Stone, Part IV".
*At the moment he brought them up, my daughter Erin just happened to be coloring a picture of the Sisters drawn by artist David Wong (I think that's his name) who was selling them in the Dealer's Room at the Gathering 2001 in L.A. Erin was very excited by the kismet of the moment.*
Did you guys register Mac's limited dialogue? It would be tough in the first fight by itself. He does have four lines. And GARGOYLES was never a show to go in for extensive quipping during battles. So four lines may have seemed like enough.
And did you register the "Magic Sparkly Powder" when it first hit Hudson?
This ep is fun because there are so many layers of deceit going on.
Note that at this early stage, Goliath doesn't intend to kill Macbeth. He aims for the Sky-sled's control panel and hits it. The fact that the sled goes down is an unfortunate and unavoidable result. And Goliath clearly feels at least a little guilty. Hudson doesn't mind though. He thinks Goliath's action was perfectly reasonable.
I don't suppose anyone thought Mac was really dead? I wasn't really even trying to trick you into that one. Between the immortality info that you (but not the Gargoyles) knew from City of Stone and the early timing of the death in the episode, I figured nobody would be fooled. And I didn't want anyone fooled. Because that wasn't what I wanted to fool you guys about. I didn't want you to figure out that Macbeth was a robot. So I intentionally did not show the body, on the assumption that most everyone knows that if you don't see the body, the victim probably isn't dead. That way when Mac came back, you'd all be thinking, "Hah, Immortal!" instead of "Hah, Robot!"
BTW, everyone always asks how Hudson can believe Mac is dead and then later acknowledge Mac & Demona's immortality to Xanatos. But Hudson was thinking of immortality in the sense of living on without aging, ala the Norse Gods. Not in the sense that Mac was somehow immune to all injury and death ala the Greek Gods. Clear?
Lucky for Xanatos that all the Gargs seem to have favorite poses. (Cheaper that way, don't you know.) Of course it also helps that since they all wake up and go to sleep at the same time, they rarely get a good look at each other's poses. Makes statue prep easier, huh?
Anyway, when Hudson didn't wake up, did everyone buy the magic powder/he's not waking up scenario? Had anyone seen Lee Nordling's Disney Digest comic story that inspired this gimmick. I've never met Lee, but he came up with the idea of replacing a sleeping garg with his statue. He used Goliath, not Hudson. But it was the same basic principle. I gave the idea to Michael (just that notion) and he ran with it to create this entirely different story? Did anyone see Lee's story and still not get it?
I can't remember why we wound up cutting Banquo & Fleance. Guess we were saving money or time at some stage. So Mac's mansion works on auto-pilot, I guess. Though those cannons still aren't too effective against gargs. And who else would attack?
Back to Brooklyn and Broadway guarding "Hudson". We wanted to keep the focus on Hudson, which is tough, since he's not moving. Brooklyn's worried about the reality of being able to find a cure. Again, we're expressing his leadership tendencies without confirming them since we couldn't guarantee that "Upgrade" would air first.
Then, finally at the end of the act, we reveal the real Hudson. My kids got very excited. Erin said: "The stone guy's not the real him." And Benny chimed in with: "That's the real one!" What were you thinking at this moment?
I even had the odd notion last night that we could have gone the direction of Hudson's "prison" being all in his mind. That the statue was him, and that he couldn't wake up until he escaped this mental/dream prison. Obviously, not the way we went. But it's a cool story idea. Anyone think THAT?
So then we come back from commercial and reveal Xanatos who claims he wants Hudson's skin. The line is said in such a way that we and Hudson are geared to think the worst. Which sets up the fun.
Hudson: "You'll have the devil's own time getting it."
Xanatos: "Gee, that wasn't as hard as you made it sound."
Ah, STONE skin. For the Cauldron of Life. I'm pretty sure the Cauldron was Michael's idea.
Everything has a price. Xanatos just doesn't get that yet.
But Hudson has X's number. They're exchanges throughout this episode are a lot of fun. Like a flip on the Goliath/Renard exchanges in "Outfoxed". But better done, frankly. Less preachy.
These exchanges may have been the inspiration for Hudson and Xanatos killing each other in "Future Tense". Owen's watching and subconsciously realizes that in some way, Hudson and Xanatos make better natural adversaries than Goliath and Xanatos. Maybe.
Hudson: "Growing old terrifies you doesn't it?
Xanatos: "Nothing terrifies me, because nothing's beyond my ability to change." (Who else can lie and tell the truth in the same sentence with this much charm. I'm so proud of this boy.)
X: "What about you? Still wasting your nights in front of the television?" (An only semi-dated reference to both Hudson's origins as the comedic gargoyle Ralph and to the way we occasionally still relegated him to clock tower duty in order to have fewer characters to deal with.)
Note that Xanatos plans on giving Fox immortality as well. He knows he loves her at this point. Wouldn't leave her out.
He doesn't mention Owen though, and in general doesn't treat Owen with his usual respect. Goads him a bit. (Macbeth has already died for me once.) Or rather teases him. He probably figures that Owen can take it. But I think it gets to Owen a bit. Xanatos wasn't expecting Owen to test the Cauldron for him. Owen felt the need to prove something. As he says: "Service is its own reward."
Lots of people watched this episode and e-mailed me that X was a big jerk for treating Owen this way. Particularly at the end of the episode when Xanatos seems completely unfazed by Owen's stone hand. Of course in our minds, this was all a very subtle clue to Owen's true identity. Xanatos and Owen both know that this condition is only as permanent as the Puck chooses to make it.
"Over-sized chamber pot." Heh.
X loves them zingers. He nails Hudson with that "the hardest part was finding a replica for your sword."
I like Goliath's desperation in the scene with him and Elisa. "We need a sorceress. We need Demona. You are a detective."
She doesn't know how to find Demona though.
Meanwhile Mac's back, still using only those same four lines. Anyone catch on here? Or wonder why Mac was working for Xanatos again?
Broadway now knows the expression is "Sitting Ducks" not "Sitting Dorks" as he said it in "Enter Macbeth". A little inside joke.
Okay. Very little.
Erin sees Hudson pick up the stone skin and asks what it is.
Sunrise. At the end of Act Two, Elisa has an oddly timed slow reaction to events, that I wish we had found a way to trim a bit.
Benny was worried: "He's gonna break into pieces and never be alive again."
Erin was a bit more tv-savvy: "He's not going to break into pieces. Or this would be the last [episode]."
I didn't really think anyone would think we were actually going to kill BW here. I think the interest is to wonder over the commercial break exactly how the hell we're going to get out of this.
Beth asked: "How'd Elisa know to shoot at that box? Who came up with that? She clearly didn't like it."
Michael Reaves put in this bit about BW turning to stone in mid-air. And I cut it. That's right. Cut it. I thought that it was too big a deal to fit into this story or at any rate that we could never make the rescue convincing. But ultimately I put it right back in. Michael was right. We needed it here. Everyone worked very hard to make Elisa's save as real as possible. The carpet sign established in advance. The multiple shots it takes her just to hit the rope twice. And Brooklyn and Goliath's exchange:
Brook: "It's a miracle!"
Gol: "A miracle named Elisa."
We're acknowledging how unlikely this is and hoping you'll just share it with us.
I still don't know. It's fun. But I'm not sure we really pulled it off in a convincing way. What did you all think?
"Jalapeña, you're still alive!" Another tier risk. Since I couldn't be sure this would air after "Protection".
X: "Hudson, your bath is ready."
This is another cool exchange. The Price metaphor really comes through here.
The title, I think, was one of mine. Inspired by the Arthur Miller play and the Jim Starlin Graphic Novel of the same name.
Back at the Macbeth battle, here he is again. By this time, the robot thing may be more obvious. Same four lines. We still tried to preserve suspense. Since he's presumably working for Xanatos to distract the Gargs that may explain his behaviour. Anyone who thought he was the real Macbeth right until the moment G gutted him?
Elisa is out of bullets. At the time, I thought that made realistic sense. Always hated guns that seemed to have unlimited bullets. Now it just feels like she was dumb for not reloading.
But one other thing strikes me -- in today's environment, we probably wouldn't have been allowed to let Elisa use a realistic gun at all.
Boom. The Hudson statue is blown to bits. By this time you all knew it wasn't Hudson, but we were hoping that for a split second, the image itself would be shocking enough to make you forget. Just for a second.
I think it worked. Ben needed to reassure himself: "That's okay. It's not the real Hudson." I don't think he would have even bothered to say that, if for a split-second he hadn't thought it was.
Of course, Goliath, who had been on the verge of putting two and two together just before this attack, goes positively medieval on us. Before he aimed for Mac's sky-sled. Now he wants "Gargoyle Justice". He's trying to kill Macbeth. It's just lucky that (a) it was a robot and (b) we had a very understanding S&P executive.
I think the robot's death scene is pretty cool. We had John Rhys-Davies come in just to record five lines. The four that we reprinted over and over and one more 'winding-down' take on "You'll have to do better than that!" It's very cool. With the eye popping out and everything. Nice stuff.
One thing I remember discussing with Michael was the rescue of Hudson. Originally, I think he had Goliath and the boys figure it out and have them show up to get H. But I felt strongly that Hudson had to rescue himself. Prove to all concerned that his age was not the liability that X thought.
This is fun.
And I love that Hudson won't destroy the Cauldron.
Like Xanatos, we think that H is "just full of surprises." But it shouldn't be much of a surprise. I think that was right in character for Hudson.
And I love his parting shot: "What will be your legacy, Xanatos?"
Frakes and Asner were both just amazing in this episode.
X: "Let him go. He's earned it." Of course, that's right in character for X too. No revenge. No jumping up and down and whining.
And hey, now Owen's arm can live as long as the mountain stones.
"How literal-minded." I think that line was one of mine. Not sure. It would probably have helped if I had read those two drafts of the script I posted yesterday. But I didn't have time.
So there's my ramble. Where's yours?
matt writes...
on Fox and David Xanatos's Marriage certificate/license, who signed as witnesses to their marriage? i mean, traditionally its the Best Man and Maid of Honor, but we can see why that wouldn't work...
did Owen sign it? did Petros?
also, i apologize if this was asked before, but, was Halcyon Renard or Anastasia invited to the wedding? if so, why didn't they come?
Greg responds...
1. Owen, probably.
2. I think not. Partially, because Fox was semi-estranged from her father at least. But MOSTLY because of the instructions Xanatos got from himself. Neither Fox or Xanatos are sentimental enough (at least not that they'd admit) to risk having either of Fox's parents there, when potentially they might interfere.
Anonymous writes...
Puck
Since Puck didn¡¯t know of Demona¡¯s link with MacBeth how did he think she stayed alive for ten centuries?
Does Xanatos trust Puck/Owen entirely?
Greg responds...
It's possible to simply acknowledge ignorance. Speculating on what his incorrect theory might have been seems pointless.
As much as anyone.
Anonymous writes...
How advanced is the Illuminati¡¯s tech? Beyond Xanatos¡¯s tech? Anywhere close to New Olympian tech?
Greg responds...
There's no across the board answer to this. Different groups will be more advanced in different areas.
matt writes...
in "Vows" Xanatos says a line and i'm not sure how/what he means with it?
does he say "Time travels funny that way." meaning that time is traveling funny or does he say "Time travel's funny that way." meaning that time travel itself is funny that way? does that make sense? i keep reading over it and i think it makes sense...
anyway, kinda a pointless question, but one i've been wanting to ask for a while now...
but on a related note, right before Xanatos says that, Goliath says he wishes he could leave Xanatos in that time and Xanatos says "You won't, because you didn't..." how did Xanatos know that? Goliath could've very well left Xanatos there and that may have been what always happened! you could say, Xanatos would've sent a letter to the Illuminati warning himself of his fate or some excuse like that, but as we've seen in "MIA" that letter would've been lost or something and all his ways of warning himself would've fallen through cuz the point is he did end up in Goliaths time and if he warned himself it would have created a paradox! so, there is no way Xanatos would have known for sure that Goliath wouldn't leave him there. was he saying that to Goliath to kinda trick Goliath into thinking that he had to bring him home or something, or was Xanatos just being confident and egotistical of his abilities to have a plan all worked out?
i hope all parts of this post make sense to you. if they don't, i apologize, its late...
Greg responds...
Time travel IS funny that way. Again, I think it's fairly self-evident. Meaning, hey, it's quirky.
It makes sense. It's just ANNOYING!!!
Sorry.
You're logic is flawless. I agree with everything you said.
Let's move on now.
Lord Sloth writes...
Had Elisa ever meet Either Xanatos or Owen berfore awakening part 3? If yes, when?
Greg responds...
No.
Todd Jensen writes...
Since you and Entity recently (as of July 20th) had a brief exchange about Xanatos's characterization, I thought that I'd give a thought of my own about him.
One thing that has occurred to me is that there was an intriguing paradox about Xanatos in his "feud" with the gargoyles. One advantage that Xanatos had over the conventional "cartoon super-villain" was that he was a level-headed, practical man who wasn't interested in revenge or pointless vendettas. And this, on one level, made him potentially a more challenging adversary for the gargoyles. Because as a result, he wasn't likely to get so distracted in carrying out his personal score with the clan that he'd make foolish mistakes which they could take advantage of and thereby win, the way that more conventional "master-villains" in animated series do (and which, elsewhere in "Gargoyles", the Archmage himself fell prey to, when he kept on making strategic and tactical errors in "Avalon" - such as not waiting until dawn to attack or in magically tormenting Goliath when he could just as easily have simply zapped him into a pile of dust). It removed the leading source of "mistakes that antagonists make" which can save the day for the protagonists.
But, ironically enough, this very trait of Xanatos's also may have helped the gargoyles in a way. For, since Xanatos wasn't a revenge-crazed man, he wouldn't be likely to be constantly pursuing the gargoyles obssessively in "conventional cartoon super-villain" style, and indeed, he didn't. He went after them because he had specific plans about what to do with them (using them as his agents for such operations as stealing the disks from Cyberbiotics). But that motive didn't take too long to be discarded, as it became increasingly aware to Xanatos that he couldn't make use of the gargoyles in that way ever again; in fact, I recently noticed, upon examining his actions closer, that in Season Two, despite his continued clashes with the clan, he had stopped attempting to actually capture and dominate them (the one exception being his capture of Hudson in "The Price", and then there was a different reason for that - the need to use Hudson as a guinea pig for the Cauldron of Life). So he no longer had a serious reason for capturing them, and consequently, didn't see the need to make those efforts. The only possible reason left for going after the gargoyles was that of revenge, and that obviously didn't interest him. So he had no reason to pursue them (and indeed, seems to have even been aware, as the ending of "City of Stone" makes clear, that leaving them more or less at liberty could be much more advantageous to him anyway). He could afford to leave them alone.
So I find it an amusing paradox that the very factor which could have made Xanatos a serious threat to the gargoyles actually helped to make him less of a threat than he might have been. He wasn't obssessively pursuing them on the basis of a pointless grudge. He went after them only when he saw a genuine need to, and there was increasingly less reason for him to capture or destroy the whole clan as the series went on (and good reason, on the other hand, to let them be).
Greg responds...
Sound analysis. I've said it before, I think as villains go, David and Demona are too fairly original characters. I'm proud of all my babies, so to speak, but I'm particularly proud of these two and how different they are from each other and yet how they both constantly presented us not merely with 'evil plot of the week' material but with challenging character work. They wrote themselves.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
Now that he has made peace with the Manhattan Clan, would Xanatos have continued to make use of the Steel Clan, or his Steel Clan exo-armor?
Greg responds...
Given appropriate circumstances, I don't see why not.
: « First : « 25 : Displaying #222 - #246 of 271 records. : Last » :