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Rewatched "The Gathering" (both episodes) on DVD today. A few new things I noticed about it.
A minor detail, but which I find touching: when Renard learns about Anastasia's remarriage,, he sadly clasps her hand.
The letter X is prominent among the Xanatoses: Xanatos, FoX, and AleXander. And then I thought of LeXington, who isn't one of the family, but who's close to Alex, and who became Xanatos's secret successor in "Future Tense". (And there's that bit, also, in your "Gargoyles 2198" piece, about the Lexington-Xanatos Corporation.)
Goliath's homecoming makes a lovely contrast with "Future Tense", as he warmly embraces the overjoyed Brooklyn and Lexington (the two members of the clan who'd been bitter towards his late return in "Future Tense") and Hudson says "I knew you hadn't abandoned us." (While Broadway hugs Elisa, tying in with his being the closest to her among the trio, ever since "Deadly Force".)
One feature of Goliath's pondering the possibility that Avalon sent him to Manhattan to stop Oberon from taking Alex away; if his speculation was correct, that means that Avalon was, in a way, going against its lord and master. Though that made sense when I thought about it; without going too deeply into hypotheticals, I suspect that things would have not gone well for Avalon if Oberon *had* spirited Alex away (no way would his parents have accepted that), and Avalon would be sparing itself and its lord and master a lot of potential trouble in thwarting him.
You mentioned once that you wanted to have Puck break the fourth wall, but the rest of the production team objected to it. I noticed that he does come close, though, when he turns towards the camera while saying "I'm on a roll". (And when somebody *did* break the fourth wall, it was Brooklyn instead.)
At the very end, Broadway turns to stone shortly before the rest of the clan does.
Interesting observations. Thanks for all these, Todd.
Rewatched "Ill Met By Moonlight" today.
I spotted more hunting allusions in it (though this time, the gargoyles' "hunter" isn't a human); Titania's incantation to temporarily restrict Oberon's abilities includes the line "Till hunt be done", and Oberon says, after defeating Goliath, "And so ends the hunt". (He also evokes hunting imagery when he says "the rabbits would face the fox" - though I couldn't help thinking when he said it, "Technically, they're facing the fox's stepfather, though the audience isn't supposed to know that for another two episodes.")
1)Do Oberon and Titania also have other names or identities that may appear in mythologies? The Banshee had as a second identity Cromm Cruach.
2)Are Oberon and Titania's children mythologically known?
2.b)If so, in which mythology?
1. No spoilers
2. No spoilers.
2b. See above.
1. Given that the Third Race apparently knows about King Arthur's burial on Avalon (the Weird Sisters asked "Where's the sleeping king?" during their battle with the Magus in "Avalon, Part 3"), what is the significance of Oberon's referring to Titania as his "Once and Future Queen" in "Ill Met By Moonlight?"
2. On this question http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1414 Todd Jensen mentioned a little bit about Merlin's life according to legend, including his encounter with King Vortigern. An eighteenth-century forger named William Henry Ireland wrote a play about Vortigern's life that he falsely attributed to William Shakespeare, on the grounds that Vortigern's story was so tragic, Shakespeare ought to have written about it. Given that King Arthur appears to have a prominent role in the Gargoyles Universe, and given also your love of Shakespeare, I'm especially curious to learn what role Vortigern has in the Gargoyles Universe.
By the way, I'm even more eager to learn what Shakespeare's story is in the Gargoyles Universe, than what Titania whispered to Fox.
1. You're assuming Oberon knows the title of the book "Once and Future King"?
2. No Spoilers.
Is Oberon capable of love? Does he love his wife and biological children? Did he marry Titania for shallow reasons (like her beauty, power, and status)? I get this feeling if his sons were to die, he would not care.
You'd be wrong.
He, of course, loves Titania and his children.
I'm not even sure what you're basing your assumptions on.
Hello, Greg, I am a fan of Gargoyles and your other work. I have questions about Oberon.
1.)Did Oberon have any affairs while he was married to Titania? You mentioned he has 4 kids. I'm not sure if two were born before his marriage or during it.
2.)Do you think Future Archmage and Jackal-Anubis(or Jackalbus) stand a chance against Oberon? Both of them seem pretty powerful.
3.)How come he isn't bothered that his wife has a daughter by a human? He doesn't seem upset about it.
1. No spoilers.
2. It's all situational.
3. You're imposing human morality on a non-human entity. He's even LESS human than he appears, btw.
Hi Greg. I am a big fan and I have a copyright question for you . The characters you use in Gargoyles are besides the main cast are mythological. So that would put them in the public domain, but your spin on them is that protected by copyright. Such as Oberon and Titania's connection to Avalon and their devours.
Thanks and Cant wait for Rebels and whatever else you do.
Oberon and Titania, to use your examples, are public domain. But our designs of them are not. And it one began to hew too closely to the backstories we created for them, Disney could, in theory, sue.
Since you are a big Shakespeare fan, I thought to ask if you've read A Midsummer Tempest by Poul Anderson? It's set in a world where all of Shakespeare's plays really happened?
No. And I won't, so as not to crowd my head with other folks' ideas. Sounds really cool, though. We were trying to accomplish the same thing (among other things) on Gargoyles.
I noticed in another series of children's books called The Sisters Grimm that the author, Michael Buckley, also had Puck as a main character, only he has the form of a 12 year old and seems to have the mindset of one. He also has a pair of pink insect wings (despite still being a shape-shifter) that he isn't ashamed of at all.
He's written in a way that makes me believe he could have been your version of Puck at a younger age, though he is considered in that series to be the literal child of Oberon and Titania (Oberon's children, haha).
What's more is that King Oberon and Queen Titania live in Manhatten, New York City. I can't help but wonder if there's some of the Gargoyle show's influence at work here.
1. Were you aware of this series and its similarities?
2. Did you ever exchange words with Michael Buckley?
3. Do you think it's possible he watched your show, Gargoyles, or more likely that it was a coincidence?
3. I have no idea.
Your rendition of Puck really rekindled an interest of fairy lore in me, especially since I love tricksters and their amoral personalities that make them so complex. I love how you never know if they'll do something 'good' or 'bad' to someone else simply on a whim, and you portrayed that so well.
I read a previous answer of yours to someone else that said you didn't want to label Puck, Oberon, and Titania as 'faeries' because of the pejorative connotations that the word has. I realize and empathize with you about how fairies are often thought of as nothing more than pretty little girls with butterfly wings or something to that effect, who wave magic wands to grant wishes and always do good. Makes me sick.
1. Is that why you didn't have Puck, Oberon and Titania portrayed with fairy wings despite their status in their original play?
2. If so, why bother to have Puck fly around at all, let alone with fairy dust trailing behind him?
There's a show I recently learned of called Durarara!! in which a Dullahan (technically a sort of fairy) comes to Tokyo to find her missing head, taking the form of a black-wearing motorcyclist and transferring her headless horse's spirit into a pitch black motobike. To hide the fact she has no head, she wears a full helmet and tries to blend in with the city, acting as a transporter and courier for gangs and info brokers, forcing fans to reconsider their initial mental image of a typical fairy.
I think if you had recognized that Puck and the others were Fae, it just might have saved the Fae's tainted, modern day reputation, considering how well-known and admired the Gargoyles show is. However, I understand respect the choices you made, and it was pretty much obvious who they were in the long run.
1. "Despite"? Most of the versions I've seen are wingless.
2. Uh... it looked cool?
I don't recall saying no to the words "faery", "fairy" or "fae" because of perjorative connotations. I think the point I was making is that Oberon and Titania were "larger" than that. The Children of Oberon include those creatures traditionally associated with the "fae" but also various pantheons, etc.
Hi first time questioner, long time fan so here we gp
1)Does Titania still have feelings for Renard?
2)When Oberon sent all of the third race into the human world to learn humailty, what he was he doing for that time. Was he in the human world aswell?
3)Oberon said that they golaith could have killed him with the iron bell. If he had died what would have become of his children?(so to speak)
1. Feelings, yes. Romantic feelings - not much.
3. They'd probably become Titania's Children for the short term. Beyond that, I'm not to big on hypotheticals.
The question in the last queue about whether Fox and David can vote after getting out of prison, and my own thoughts about the Third Race and Oberon's Law against interfering with mortals, has led me to this question: What does the Law of Oberon prevent and what does it allow, in terms of Oberon's Children participating in human politics? Do Anastasia Renard and Owen Burnett have U.S. citizenship, or if not could they get it if they wanted it? Can they vote? Can they get any more politically active than voting? (Leaving aside whether they actually want to do any of these things.)
My I-won't-be-held-to-this answer for the moment is that as long as they are living AS humans, they can PARTICIPATE in human affairs. They can eat lunch with other humans. They can see movies made by humans. They can conduct business with humans, and so, it follows, they can vote as humans vote... as long as they're not using magic to alter things.
I have another question regarding Oberon and Titania. Before the beginning of the Gathering and Titania offered to be his wife again was Oberon considering asking her to marry him?
One assumes they had had some conversations about this before, with him asking her, and she demuring...
One thing I am curious about is your view of the events in Shakespear'es Midsummer Nights Dream. After seeing the play, I had always been more sympathetic to Titania than Oberon, yet from your responses, in the Gargoyle Universe,you seem to set the actual event as more sympathetic to Oberon. What caused your decision to take that route?
I'm not sure I'm more sympathetic to Oberon AT ALL. I think he has some positive qualities in the play and some extremely NEGATIVE qualities, and my theory that he's the (illegitimate) father of the changeling boy born of a young virgin he therefore must have seduced before she died in childbirth, doesn't per se make him sympathetic, though I do think it makes his actions more understandable. Admittedly, if your interpretation was that he wants the boy for sexual purposes, he's a monster, and I sound like a sympathetic revisionist/apologist/jerk by comparison. But if you don't attribute that horrific interpretation to the play, then all I've done is motivate his actions with something specific.
Did the events of a Midsummer Night's Dream happen in the Gargoyles Universe? And if so did they happen as Shakespeare wrote them or differently?
Events occurred, but I'm not going to go into it at this time.
Now i noticed and a may be wrong but Titania seemed less effected by iron as did puck then Oberon himself. I was wondering if maybe this was because they are less Allergic to it being his children, and is Titania just less effected in general?
They're not LITERALLY his children. And I'm not sure why you say they were less effected?
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Weird Sisters track down Oberon in his mortal identity. They inform him that mortals have infested Avalon. Oberon decides that the time of the Gathering is indeed at hand and sets out to find his former queen, Titania.
Wow, I had no idea Bad Guys was already out. It's been a busy month. But I got a lot of thinking time since I've been on medical leave and I came up with these little gems.
1. OK, in the case of Owen/Puck you've said that Owen is fully human and can't do magic unless he's Puck (as far as I know anyway) and that rule applies to all Faeries. However, Fox is the offspring of Titania as a human and Reynard but she and her son are able to cast spells. I've read a few things about the differences between human and faerie magic but the only times we've seen magic in humans is through an object of some sort i.e. the Grimoire, the Eye of Odin, the Pheonix Gate ect. So what kind of magic do Fox and Alex (and presumely Merlin) use? If human why don't they need an object; if Fairy how?
2. I'm a HUGE fan of Midsummer's Night Dream but there is one thing that has irritaed me even when I was 10 years old. You switched the roles of Titania and Oberon. In the play Oberon was the consort though he was King of the Elves, Titania was the Queen of Fairies. What made you switch their roles?
3. I know you'll hate this question but is Mab plotting the destruction of Titania and Oberon or is she just gonna destroy us all outright?
Thanks for the answers!
1. Mortal sorcery doesn't enter into it. Owen is a mortal construct, able to do no magic except transform into Puck. Fox is half-human/half Child of Oberon. Alex is 3/4 human, 1/4 Child. Merlin is half and half. What isn't clear about this?
2. I've read and seen Midsummer easily 100 times. In what way did I switch their roles? Are you sure you're not allowing your interpretation of the play to influence your interpretation of what we did on the show?
3. I don't hate the question, but I have no intention of answering it at this time.
I scoured the appropriate archives and couldn't find the answer, so here goes nothing: feel free to snark me if you already answered it, and I'll go a-hunting some more.
So Oberon's Law works both as an actual restriction on ability (as in it can't be broken) but also as a rule (as in it can be bent), but I'm curious as to how halflings like Alex and Fox might be affected by Oberon's Laws. How tightly are halflings expected to adhere to Oberon's edicts and does it change depending on whether Oberon knows they exist?
Oberon seems to make some distinction depending on situation, as in the line: "As I see it, Fox has turned out to be regrettably human, and so we cannot interfere in her life. But the boy is of our blood..." He stands as the interpreter of his own laws, but now that Fox has proven that she is less "regrettably human" than he originally thought, does this change what laws Fox might have to obey? The non-interference rule is tricky for full blood children, and I can only imagine the loopholes are even easier to find when you're half mortal, but would there still be some applicable scenarios for Fox and Alex where this rule that can't be broken might apply? Like perhaps with the Phoenix gate-- would Alex be able to take the gate, or would someone have to give it to him? I'm especially curious about Alex, seeing as Oberon considers him "of our blood" and that Alex will be trained to use his powers.
I am likewise curious about Merlin. In order to guide the boy Arthur to become King Arthur, did Merlin have to "bend" the rules at all? Or did the No Interference rule not apply to him? What about the halfling New Olympians?
I wonder perhaps if there is some natural loophole in not knowing the law exists or not knowing the law applies to you. Or in Oberon not knowing you exist or that the law applies to you. With neither Fox nor Oberon knowing Fox was a halfling, that in itself might have been enough of a loophole for her. Now that they both know, I suppose it's all up for interpretation: whether or not Fox thinks the rule applies to her and (probably more importantly) whether or not Oberon think the rule applies to her. Ditto for Alex, and I can see how the "rules" that might not apply to Fox might still apply to him.
I imagine this is a matter of degrees and semantics. But maybe not, so I thought I'd ask.
The rule is magically enforced. Oberon doesn't need to know about you to enforce it. You don't need to know about Oberon to have it enforced. But -- as we've seen -- loopholes abound. The trickier you are the easier it is to find loopholes. Bloodline -- or blood purity, so to speak -- has nothing to do with it.
I have a few questions about the Puck/Owen duality or rather who knows about it.
1. Outside of Goliath's clan living in Manhattan, David Xanatos, Fox, and Alex, how many others know about that duality?
2. Does Thailog know about that duality?
1. Well, Oberon and Titania know. That's all we know for sure.
2. Why would he?
Yay! Question time! I was sad we couldn't post for so long, however working on a comic and having an upcoming television show demands alot of time I'm sure. Having fun?
Anyway, what are your plans for future Gargoyles stories? No! Just kidding!!!
Fox was understandbly bitter towards her mother at the end of The Gathering. Is there a planned reconciliation in the near future, or at least a confrontation? Or is that far off still?
Furthermore, what are Zanatos' feeling about her. I'm sure he harbors some resentment, but as someone who made a living out of schemes and plots, does he have a bit more... understanding (even if not appreciation)?
I am having fun, thanks for asking. I'm really tired though.
I'll leave everyone's feelings up to your interpretation for now. Eventually, we'll get to everything, but I'm trying to avoid scooping myself too much.
Yay the queue is open! I'm happy you're taking questions again. (and I'm of course excited to get #6, which I'll be ordering asap). I hope you don't mind questions unrelated to reviewing the comic... those Children of Oberon always make me so curious.
1. a. So Ragnarok already occured in the Gargoyles Universe. When did it happen? (If you don't want to give a year or decade, can you please say what century it happened in?)
b. Did any of the gods survive Ragnarok, other than Odin? If some did, who?
2. You've also told us that the war between the Titans and Olympians was a real event in the Gargoyles Universe. What happened to the defeated Titans afterwards? (I don't want to assume it is the same as the myths, or to ask more specifically for fear it would be an idea)
3. When was Oberon born? (If you don't want to give the year or decade, please say what century?)
1a. Yes, it occured, but no I'm not going to hint at a date (even a century) at this time.
1b. Yes, a few others did. But I'm not revealing who at this time. (Though the myths themselves are a good hint.)
2. I'm not answering this at this time.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The gargoyles and Elisa return to the Clock Tower, while back at the Eyrie Building, Xanatos and Sevarius, who had only faked his death, discuss the success of their plan. Later that day, the Metropolitan Museum of Art announces a forthcoming new medieval exhibit: "Titania's Treasures". Demona immediately begins planning to steal Titania's Mirror.
Is it just me or are there eire simularities between charecters of Gargoyles and charecters of different shows?
Oberon/Inu no Taisho(Inu Yasha's father)
Owen/Cedric(W.I.T.C.H)(Owen just has shorter hair though)
And Puck/Yue(Card Captor Sakura)
It's really quite freaky.
If you say so.
I'm unfamilar with Inu Yasha's father and Card Captor Sakura. And although I worked on both Owen and Cedric, I helped create the former and didn't have anything to do with the creation of the latter. I suppose I can see some passing similarities, but they don't seem much alike to me.
a follow up on my other question, are there plans for puck in the comic? if so are there plans for oberon and titania as well (besides the queen mab thing).
I'm sure I've answered -- or NOT answered this -- already. Yes, there are plans for EVERYONE eventually.