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Renard and Vogel

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Matt writes...

Hi Greg,

Today I was reflecting on a few instances in my life where I had to make difficult choices: the easy road or the right road. I can specifically remember thinking about integrity in those moments, thinking about Renaud's "What have I become?" versus Demona's "What have they done..." Ultimately, despite the difficulties, I tended to do the right thing and tell the truth, both to myself and to others. In one case, this resulted in me being fired from a job.

The reason I'm telling you this is that, while I had some excellent role models growing up who showed me integrity, it would be unfair to say that Gargoyles didn't have a strong influence in my youth that would lead me to become the man I am today. I am now a teacher of elementary school students and see many young people with and without strong moral role models. In either case, it is clear to me that they are very influenced by the movies, TV shows, celebrities and social media in their lives. And it is my hope that mixed into all the stimuli they are receiving the kind of moral reinforcement that I had in Gargoyles. I am very grateful to you and your peers for creating a program that I not only wanted to watch, but that made me a better person. There is a lot of red tape that goes into public school education, and I know that in your field there is a lot of that too. But I wanted to encourage you to remember the impact you can have on young people. It is not all about ratings and toy sales and demographics. You have the power to guide the adults of tomorrow. You certainly helped to guide me.

Keep up the great work! And thank you from a lifelong fan.

Greg responds...

You just made my day. Thank you.

Response recorded on July 22, 2016

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Mania writes...

Hello, first time asker here! I've been watching through all episodes for the second time (It's just as good as I remember it being!), and I have two questions.

1. In the episode "The Green", Vogel was supervising an operation in the rainforest behind Renard's back, but near the end of the episode, he ends up deciding to cancel the project right after Jackal seems to fall into the nearby Jacuzzi. Did he only cancel the project because he got word of Jackal and Hyena's failure, or did other circumstances like J&H's extreme methods (killing gargoyles, creating a fire, museum heist) and Renard's stance on integrity also play a role in his decision?

2. Did Renard find out about the operation off-screen before the events of the Gathering?

Greg responds...

1. All of the above, perhaps. It's subject to interpretation, and I'd like to leave it that way.

2. That seems unlikely.

Response recorded on January 11, 2016

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Charisma82 writes...

In Outfoxed, did Fox let Vogel keep the money she’d sent to him for betraying her father and helping her take out Renard’s company or did she take it back? Or did he give it back to her? If he kept it, what did he do with the money that was used to make him betray Renard (I would assume he’d feel guilty having it, but correct me if I’m wrong)?

Thank you for your time and all that you do,

-Charisma82

Greg responds...

I'm sure Renard would have insisted on Vogel returning the money as a condition of continued employment.

Response recorded on September 17, 2010

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Robert Culp R.I.P.

I won't pretend I knew Robert Culp well, but long prior to his work on Gargoyles, I was a fan. I loved him in The Greatest American Hero and LOVED him in I Spy. His unique delivery and humor made both series a joy. And what great partnerships: Culp & Cosby in Spy and Culp & Katt in Hero. He was clearly a generous actor. And a dedicated one. His performances as Halcyon Renard in a handful of episodes of Gargoyles made Renard a completely fascinating character for me. And his exchanges with Peter Scolari as Preston Vogel in the booth were really fun to watch.

Culp will be missed.


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Thorgrimur writes...

I would like to ask a few questions about Preston Vogel. For some reason, I actually like him more than Owen.
1. Does Puck have any liking for Vogel?. Did he create the Owen persona more to honour or mock Vogel?
2. How did Vogel and Owen get along when they were both working at Cyberbiotics?
3. Did Vogel get to keep the fee he was paid by Fox for sabotaging the Cybots in "Outfoxed"?
4. (This has been asked before, but not properly answered). In the Silver Falcon story memo, there is a line refering to "Vogel's murder" (the exact line was: "Vogel's murder in the other premise, was never gonna fly". What was that about?

Greg responds...

1. I think Puck was amused by Vogel and wanted to do him one better.

2. Owen got along fine with Vogel. Vogel was somewhat disconcerted by Owen, for reasons he could not quite put his finger on.

3. Good question.

4. I don't recall. But clearly an earlier draft of the writer or story editor's premise had Vogel being murdered, and I was saying that would never get past S&P.

Response recorded on July 03, 2009

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DECEMBER 14

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

December 14th...

1995
The trio have grown steadily more at odds over Goliath's inability to choose one of them as a Second. They have begun competing to see who can stop the most street crime. Elisa, Goliath, Hudson and Bronx are captured by a newly upgraded Pack. Coyote has a new robot body. Hyena & Jackal are now cyborgs. Wolf is a mutate. And Dingo has new battle armor. Meanwhile, Halcyon Renard, who had been searching for some means to fight the disease that is killing him, discovers an incantation that will transfer his soul into the Golem of Prague.


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NOVEMBER 18

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

November 17th...

1994
Tony Dracon steals hi-tech weapon prototypes from Xanatos Enterprises. Elisa is put on the case and confronts Dracon, who later orders Glasses to sell a few of the weapons on the street. Broadway rushes off to see the movie Showdown again and then goes to Elisa's loft for a bite to eat. He accidentally shoots her with her own gun and rushes her to Manhattan General Hospital. He does not return to the castle.

1995
At the behest of Fox, the cybots are reprogrammed by Preston Vogel to sabotage Fortress-2. Goliath and Renard join forces to defeat them and save the ship. In the end, Vogel has a change of heart and assists. Early that morning, Fox confronts Renard, informing her father of her pregnancy. Owen learns from Xanatos that Fox is pregnant and begins making preparations for a possible attack from the Children of Oberon.


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NOVEMBER 17

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

November 17th...

1994
The Trio goes to see the movie Showdown for the first time.

1995
Early in the afternoon, Fox wires a down payment to Preston Vogel's Swiss bank account, securing his services for her hostile effort to take over Halcyon Renard's Cyberbiotics company. That evening, Cyberbiotics launches Fortress-2. Despite Elisa's concern, Goliath follows the airship to protect it, but he is viewed as a threat and is captured by Renard's cybots. Meanwhile, Fox receives test results from her doctor, confirming she is pregnant with Xanatos' child.


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OCTOBER 27

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

October 27th...

1994
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.

1995
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.

1996
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.


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SEPTEMBER 28

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

September 28th...

994
Tom, Mary and other refugees are given shelter from rampaging Vikings at Castle Wyvern.

995
Michaelmas Eve. Tom and the Magus get the eggs out of Edinburgh Castle. Finella drugs Constantine so that Katharine can escape, and flees with the Princess, Tom, Mary, the Magus and the eggs. The Magus brings them all to the mystic island of Avalon. He is forced to battle the Weird Sisters to achieve the island. He turns them into owls but is unable to take the Grimorum with him. Finella and Mary agree to take the book and keep it safe from Constantine. They depart. Katharine, Tom and the Magus land on Avalon with the eggs. The two time-traveling Archmages witness all this and rescue the Weird Sisters from their owl-state. The Archmages and the Sisters form an alliance. They agree to meet again in the year 1020.

1963
Vinnie Grigori is born in New York.

1980
In Paris, Demona steals the Praying Gargoyle statue from Notre Dame Cathedral. Confronted by Charles Canmore, the Hunter, she kills him and escapes. Canmore's children, Jason, Robyn and Jon swear vengeance.

1995
At midnight, Demona uses Titania's Mirror to summon Puck. They turn Elisa and all the humans in Manhattan into gargoyles and vice versa. The situation is soon reversed, but Puck arranges it so that Demona is human during the day and a gargoyle at night. Fox contacts Preston Vogel, inducing him to betray her father Halcyon Renard.

1996
Xanatos and his robots track Coldstone down in the Himalayas and disable him.


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JULY 9

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

July 9th...

1996
The Gathering is nearly complete, bringing Odin, Raven, Anubis, the Lady of the Lake, Anansi, Grandmother, Coyote and Nought (among others) back to Avalon. The Weird Sisters drag the Banshee before Oberon, who punishes her for her pride by silencing her voice. Only Titania and Puck remain absent. Oberon decides to seek out Puck himself, and takes Boudicca along to help with the hunt. In Manhattan, Fox gives birth to Alexander Fox Xanatos. The baby is introduced to his grandparents, Petros Xanatos, Halcyon Renard and Anastasia Renard (and also to Halcyon's assistant Preston Vogel). Owen reacts strangely to the news that Anastasia has remarried her first husband. Not long after, Oberon arrives, searching for Puck. But instead he finds Anastasia and reveals that she is in fact Queen Titania. Titania convinces Oberon that Alexander must be taken away to Avalon in order to nurture his magical potential. Xanatos protests - violently - but to no avail. Oberon gives Fox and David an hour to say goodbye to their son. Xanatos confers with Owen, who reveals security measures against Oberon that he has already put into place. Owen then abandons Xanatos without explanation. At the Clock Tower, Hudson, the Trio and Cagney learn about Alexander's birth, and then happily welcome home Bronx, Elisa and Goliath before being introduced to Angela. All three of the Trio are immediately smitten with her. Goliath brings Cagney and Elisa to their loft. When he returns to the Clock Tower, Anastasia is there. She reveals herself as Titania and asks him to help with the peaceful removal of Alexander. Goliath refuses to cooperate with the abduction of Xanatos' son. The hour having expired, Oberon returns to the Eyrie Building to claim Alexander. With amusement, he watches the evacuation of the building's employees. But he's furious when he realizes that Xanatos has activated Owen's force field to keep him out. He puts every mortal in Manhattan (including Elisa, Cagney, Morgan, Travis, Brendan and Margot) into a deep magical sleep. But the energy field protects the Xanatos family inside the Eyrie, and Goliath's clan is immune, thanks to Oberon's promise back on Avalon. Oberon then uses his magic to increase his size until he is literally as tall as the Eyrie itself. David and Petros Xanatos, the Gargoyles, Owen's Iron Clan Robots, Preston Vogel, Halcyon Renard and his cybots all attempt to prevent Oberon from getting to the child. They wound and weaken the giant, reducing him back to normal size, but are unable to stop him. And Renard's Fortress-2 crashes into Central Park.

[Woof! Big day, huh?]


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Puck Robyne Lover!! writes...

Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.

Greg responds...

I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:

Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.

Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)

Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.

Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".

Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.

Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.

Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.

Response recorded on November 18, 2004

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'Nix writes...

Okay, here's a question about Halcyen Renard. In the show you say he was close to 70. Well, today that's not too old, and yet he looked much older and rather crippled and decrepit. Is this due to a disease that he may have, like Multiple Sclerosis? My grandmother died of that recently and the symptoms seemed to be the same. I'm just curious. Thanks a bunch!

Greg responds...

As I've said before, I think that Renard had MS, but I never got the chance to do the research. Before I definitively state what he had, I'd want to make sure that the symptoms we depicted and described fit that disease.

And yes, his condition contributed to his appearance.

Response recorded on March 05, 2004

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Gipdac writes...

How old is Renard?

Greg responds...

Renard was 68 at the end of 1996.

Response recorded on March 28, 2002

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Gipdac writes...

How old is Vogel?

Greg responds...

Vogel was 36 at the end of 1996.

Response recorded on March 28, 2002

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Anonymous writes...

Is Renard still alive in 2001?

Greg responds...

I'm not 100% sure. Certain events between 1997 and the present are in a bit of flux, given that I haven't had a venue for stories.

Response recorded on October 17, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

I now have a list of questions to for you about love. ahhh

1. Does Hyena love Jackel?
2. Does Jackel love Hyena?
3. How serius are Hyena's feelings to Cyotie? Is she madley im love with him, or just mildly attracted? Either way, it's kinda gross
4. How does Cyotie feel toward Hyena? He seemed up for they idea of "making sparks fly".
5. Does Fox love Anistasia(before and after the Gathering)?
6. Does Halcyen still carry a torch for Anistasia? And does he now know that she is Titania?
7. Does Titania love fox?
8. Does Puck love Alex?
9. Does Oberon love anyone besides Titania?
10. Does Dracon dream about Elisa and him being together?
11. Was Brooklyn attracted to Demona before "Temptation". He seems to go after the most females.
12. Does Iago feel in love with Desdemona, or is it a strong sexual attraction, or is it just to hurt Othello?
13. Was there a time when Desdemona had feelings toward Iago?
14. Does Vinnie have a special someone (besides himself), or does everyone think he is too wierd?
15. Has Thailog ever felt love, even in the slightest way?
16. Was Malcolm and Elaina's wedding more out of love, or convenience?
17. Do Banquo and Florence have a thing for each other?
18. Does Cagney have a special kitty friend, or just Elisa?
19. Has the Magus been yerning for Kathern all of his life, and never told her how he felt? If yes., thats pretty sad.
20. And, somewhere deep deep down, both Goliath and Demona both yern to again be one, now and forever. Right? I better be. And this would have been shown in latter episodes besides dark ages right?

I'm sure you can see from my questions that I am QUITE the softy. And I love how Gargoyles uses this topic so often. Great job!!!

Greg responds...

Twenty Questions! YAY! :P

1. Sure, to the extent she knows how.

2. Ditto.

3. Something between madly in love and mildly attracted.

4. He's indifferent in the incarnations you've seen.

5. Yes.

6. Yes and Yes.

7. Of course.

8. Sure.

9. Yes. His children and his Children and the island of his birth and all the funny little mortals. He's a benificent one, that Oberon.

10. Probably.

11. I think Brooklyn respected Goliath too much to think that way, to allow himself to think that way.

12. The first two. The third is just a side benefit.

13. No.

14. He is currently available? You interested?

15. He's not admitting to it, unless he's lying.

16. Politics. And a hope of love.

17. They're exes.

18. That avenue has not yet been explored.

19. Not all his life. After all, he's ten years older than she is. But yes, it is sad.

20. I think somewhere deep, deep down Goliath wants to be with Elisa. And somewhere deep deep down, Demona wants to be with someone who is right for her.

Response recorded on September 06, 2001

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Seeker of Knowledge writes...

Why didn't Renard and Vogal fall asleep when Oberon cast his sleep spell?

Greg responds...

They weren't in Manhattan when the spell was cast. Later, when they came in, they kept an energy field around the bridge of Fortress-Two.

Response recorded on May 02, 2001

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Kathy Lowe (AKA The Gatekeeper) writes...

Just my $.02 worth on "Outfoxed". I'll leave the in-depth analysis up to Todd and Aris.

When I saw Preston Vogel for the first time, I honestly thought that is was Owen. All the characters extremely complex; I never thought that it was a copout from an animation standpoint. I went right to wondering what Owen's hidden agenda was. All the other villains had a hidden agenda, why not Owen. His "I've got a secret" attitude was evident from "The Awakening".
By the end of the episode I started having doubts that Vogel was Owen, but I didn't entirely dismiss the idea until I watched "Golem". The amount of care that Vogel had to give to a very sick Renard was more time consuming that even Owen could handle.
While I was expecting a hidden agenda out of this episode, (how could I not, Xanatos was involved via Fox) I never expected it to be Fox's agenda which was her relation to Renard. While I definitely understood what the "Tests" were, my vocabulary is woefully inadequate, so I did not know that Renard meant Fox.
I was not surprised by a pregnant cartoon character. I grew up with the Flintstones; and Wilma being pregnant with Pebbles. Back then, knitting baby booties was the way to indicate that someone was expecting. (The last sentence is for those readers who are half our ages <g> Boy do I feel old)

Greg responds...

Yeah, me too.

Obviously, Fox wasn't as ground-breaking as Wilma. But I think she's up there.

Interesting side note, Laura San Giamcomo and Jonathan Frake's wife Genie Francis were both expecting at the same time as Fox.

Response recorded on May 02, 2001