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Comments for the week ending October 21, 2002

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Carl Johnson Music:

just some little trivial differences I've noticed between the various versions of the title theme.


Original and first season Main title vs/ 2nd season with Keith David narration:

Original and first season are in key of Bb.

2nd season (narration)is in key of B (half step higher) and 3 sec shorter than 1st season Main Title.

Is it the 1st season recording slightly speeded up? Possibly to add some brightness to the music (and Keith if he was recorded before the change)

Ir is it just an accident?

Main Title vs/ End credits:

Are different recordings (same session though)

Different Arrangements.

End credits have a slightly different rhythm in 4 bar percussion intro to main melody. Entrance of full orchestra is a smooth 2-beat ascending run leading into the melody (no splice, like in "Main Title")- what you hear is what was originally written.
End credits is also at a faster tempo.

The only obvious recording cut is two thirds into the sustained "synth voice" section at the beginning - rmoving 2 chord changes.


Ok that's enough. I'll stop the musical rambling.


I think you did the exact same thing with your edit that they did. Only they just hid the splice with a sound effect. :p

Click the link to hear a midi file I made of the "End credits" theme. It's still in the "beta" stages.

Warning: Midi quality varries with sound cards. You may not like what you hear. It sounds better on wavetable sound cards. Any input from you audiophiles would be appreciated. :)

Leo - [<-Gargoyles Midi File]
Yorktown, VA
Sunday, October 20, 2002 06:11:54 PM

Gore: U got it:

CD Title: GARGOYLES: The Animated Series - Music By Carl Johnson. (Cover has his signature and tradmark logo)

Track 1)Gargoyles(Original Unedited Main Titles) Dur: 1:06
Track 2)Gargoyles Suite (Music From The First Season) Dur: 14:49
Track 3)The Panther Queen (Never Heard Before Music from Episode #46 "The Mark Of The Panther") Dur: 2:10
Track 4)Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles(Original Unedited Main Titles) Dur: 1:02

The fifth track(which I supplied to Gore) was a recreation of the TV version of the Original Theme, which was created by removing the flute part from the first half of the theme and replacing it with a copy of the orchestrated part from the second half of the theme, thus using that portion twice. It was a tricky edit to do, since the transition from the replaced orchestrated portion had to be blended slightly with the middle climactic portion of the theme in order to hid the splice. If I do say so myself, I think it turned out pretty good.

Hope this hopes.

Wingless - [canclan@rogers.com]
Saturday, October 19, 2002 07:35:56 PM

Ding: any chance you could post the track names as they appeared on the CD? i think that'd be a great extra piece of information to have to go with the music. As for the "Mark of the Panther" music, perhaps it's a different version of the music that found its way into the episode? Carl Johnson may have written the piece then was asked to alter it for the episode. It might be more of a first-draft of the music?

Vash: I noticed the Puck-theme on there as well. I wish I knew if the music on the CD is a medley or if that's an entire single piece. If it's a single piece, the Carl Johnson wrote the music that would become Puck's theme, of sorts, before season 1 started?!

I'd love to get a chance to talk with Carl Johnson and get an idea of just how the music for Gargoyles was composed. Was it all done before season 1? Was there a lot of music recorded that wasn't used?! Hrm...

Mooncat et al: There never really was an offical FAQ for this place. Never really any official rules. It's usually been majority opinion kind of controls what happens. Posting fanfic isn't encouraged for a couple reasons. One being that it adds to the already large download time for the CR and the other being the whole bit about Greg and him being exposed to original concepts and such. However we can can because we can can. Er. We can nix the second bit after what Greg said this week.

Been watching Spirited Away. Got a copy of the EU DVD. Makes me feel so tiny when I realize just how ufcking huge Miyazaki's imagination is. What a great story!

The EU DVD came with something of a "Making Of" special. No english subtitles however so I couldn't really follow what was being said. I _DID_ follow, however, that Studio Ghibli (pronounced jib-ly) has their own friggen museum with piles upon piles of stuff. Custom made buildings to reflect some of the worlds seen in their movies. Rooms where there's nothing but stacks of animation drawings and backgrounds!! Lots of cels framed up on the walls. Tons of cool merch that can't be found anywhere else including those lil soot creatures from Spirited Away. It looks so damn sweet. I gots to get to Japan if for no other reason than to visit that museum! That and maybe score a ride on one of them super-speed trains. I doubt we'll ever see one in the U.S.. Oh, that and maybe score a chance to play with all the custom software they got to mix 2D and 3D together. Spirited Away was the best production yet to blend 2D and 3D together.

BAH!@ enuf ramble.


Saturday, October 19, 2002 06:17:50 PM

Hi again, I know the post isnt for this, but I'm here again wonder if yous wouldnt mind saying a prayer for the family of my sisters husband , his mother died of cancer yesterday and the family is crushed. Danke
Saturday, October 19, 2002 04:40:09 PM

Re Carl Johnson music:
As someone who has one of the 5 copies of the CD that was auctioned off at the gathering, the files are labled as they were on the CD. Carl himself made the disc so maybe he was uncertain where the music got used. For example-the "Mark of the panther" music is labled on the disc as "The Panther Queen-Never Heard Before Music from ep #46 "the Mark of The Panther". Of course it was indeed used in that episode while Diane Maza is telling the Panther Queen story. So The files are labeled as they were on the CD. I still get shivers hearing the Garg theme unedited without the sound effects ^_^ My only regret about the disc is that there wasn't more of the music on there. People that have heard it are disappointed that the "trio theme" isn't on there. Carl, if you're out there, Please-we fans want more *drops to his knees* pretty please.

Wingless - [canclan@rogers.com]
Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:38:56 PM

Thank you for understanding Greg *hug hug* you are a sweet heart!

And Don't worry Mooncat I do not want to bother ppl so I will nopt port any more.

Saturday, October 19, 2002 01:09:06 AM

er, nm. I'm just tired and can't count. Yay for triple posts!
Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:36:50 AM

oh, and it was G2000, not G2001 (though maybe they were also auctioning it at the last one?)
Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:35:53 AM

As far as I know, Gore has been the only admin ever in this CR, and there has never been a FAQ. I think back in the day when TGS comments began flooding this room instead of general Gargoyles comments and Gore got a bit upset, he might have said something about not posting fanfic comments here. And that of course is why the TGS CR was created.

Gore> Btw, even though the track was actually labelled as season 1 music, a few of us noticed a while back that some theme bits in there are definitely season 2. Like the Puck theme, for instance. So maybe you should re-label the track as 'season 1 and 2 music'.

Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:12:29 AM

I know there *was* a "no fan fic rule" for this message board, though apparently it's been dropped now?

Reno Demona was chastised about the very subject with in the last year, for talking about ideas for her fan fictions. I had to absolutely walk on eggshells when simply accepting compliments on my own work from Sloth, least there was mention of the plot content (and no it wasn't because the content was spicy) because *then* everyone was so hyper aware of keeping original writing ideas away from the room because of Greg's presence.

Perhaps the legal issues that he was previously cautious of before is no longer a big deal now?

I specifically remember a written notice from what I thought was the site admin, asking people not to mention fan fic ideas on the message board, but perhaps it was written in the board itself and now is no longer in effect.

:: shrugs :: If there is no rule, then post away.


Friday, October 18, 2002 07:10:02 PM

TODD - You wrote: [For that matter, I wonder how Goliath would respond towards nude depictions of Elisa being circulated about]

I think that he would be upset with her in sympathy but I think that he might actually be a little curious to take a look at the pictures - after all has he actually ever really seen what a Human Female looks like nude?

BLAISE - You wrote: [I'd also like THE HEROES AWAKEN movie version since I like variety like that]

Personally I would prefer if they left the VHS version of AWAKENINGS off the disc and just have an individual episode version and a branching version that lets the episodes run like one long unedited movie. Putting the VHS version on will take up space that can be used to keep overall picture quality looking better and that can also be used for more extras.

JOSH - You wrote: [I'm sure 10 garg eps could fit on a single DVD, bringing the total # of discs to 6-7 with extras. Not 20.]

Ten episodes can only fit on a DVD-10 which is a double sided DVD. Most companies tend to avoid using this type of DVD since its more expensive. Most DVDs out there are either DVD-5 which is a single sided single layered DVD or DVD-9 which is a single sided double layered DVD.

A DVD-5 holds about 4 episodes and a DVD-9 holds about 5 episodes although there is leeway to stretch this out by a little bit in both cases. But in general going above that number on either disc will lead to problems with picture quality.

I can't see Disney going any special route to put out GARGOYLES Season 2 on DVD if they were going to do so. So they would probably only use DVD-5 or DVD-9 discs and not spend the money on DVD-10 discs. Most likely they will stick to DVD-5 which are cheaper and put 4 episodes to a disc (with the possible exception of episode collections that they might want to hype as "movies" like CITY OF STONE, AVALON, or HUNTERS MOON). That means that the amount of discs that would be needed to release the entire series would be in the area of 15-20 discs.

The only way around releasing 15-20 individual release discs of the series is to do what some anime companies do when they want to get backlog titles out into the market fast. They double up the discs in some releases. SABER MARIONETTE J for example was 25 episodes spread out across 3 sets that were made up of 2 discs each. They did the same thing for OUTLAW STAR and SILENT MOBIUS. Disney could put out the entire series in this manner - in multi-disc sets that are at bargain prices to spark more interest.

Altogether if it were two discs of episodes per set then it wouldn't take more than 1 set for the first season and 5-8 sets in the second season depending on if they just dump the entire series to DVD or try to sell some of the multi-parter episodes as individual "movies". All in all to put the entire series out on DVD would take at least 10 sets unless they included more discs per set.

You wrote: [I'm sure disney could figure out a way to make a gargoyles set economically viable to them since we're such good customers]

They could but I don't think that doing what Paramount is doing with ST:TNG DVD sets would work unless they could also market GARGOYLES to that same Star Trek Community. We're dedicated but we don't have numbers near anything Star Trek has (unless we are counting all the ST:TNG fans as automatic GARGOYLES fans too) so Disney can't make the calculations to milk us in the same way that Paramount can with Star Trek DVD's. And a GARGOYLES season set at $140 dollars probably won't make it. We'd buy multiple copies of it but the general public won't. Only die-hard fans invest in box sets. Unless we have enough of those to influence Disney (or just one die hard fan who's a multi-millionaire :-) ) then we need a release that is newbie and general public friendly, something Star Trek doesn't need.

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Friday, October 18, 2002 06:19:16 PM

New fanfic, "Dark Hollow," is now posted. I counted them up and, not including the few I did for TGS, this is my 90th Gargoyles fanfic. That century mark is getting closer! Hoody-hoo!

Anyway, this one, just in time for Halloween, is set in my horror-novel town of Trinity Bay and features the lovely, fiesty Hippolyta. Click or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html


Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, October 18, 2002 04:17:51 PM

Actually, quite the reverse. Though I do visit occasionally (I try to stop by at least once a week), I firmly believe that this needs to be a fan friendly location. If fan ideas or fan fic are clearly marked as such, as Merain's was, then I can easily skip over them without exposure. As I just did.

If you guys have a rule about no fanfic or ideas, that's up to you. But PLEASE don't do it for my sake. This is your forum. I have my own at ASK GREG.
Friday, October 18, 2002 03:32:59 PM

Aris > I don't know that we ever had a formal FAQ posted here, but there is a no fanfiction rule because Greg frequents the room and he has expressed he doesn't want to inadvertantly be exposed to someone else's ideas about Gargoyles and have a problem later when the series comes back into production. (I think there's something to this effect posted in "Ask Greg".)

Then there's the bandwith problem. The solution would be to either a: post a link or b: request a beta reader and leave contact information. That way the room stays neat and idea free.

Gore > Thanks for your continued technical efforts on fandom's behalf. Your hard work is very appreciated. :)

Friday, October 18, 2002 02:11:01 PM

Mooncat> I am aware of no such rule. And do we even *have* a FAQ? Where is it? Please be sure of the facts you express, before so strongly chastising someone...

Merain> But I'm afraid Mooncat's correct in one thing atleast, that it's not a good idea to post entire fanfics here (there's no problem with posting fanfic ideas as far as I'm aware of). It could threaten to swamp the room...

What you ought to do is provide an email address and ask for volunteer beta-readers to contact you.

Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Friday, October 18, 2002 11:36:11 AM

Merain - I was waiting for the admin to tell you, or someone else, but as far as I know, there is a NO FAN FIC POSTING RULE for this comment room. This is the second time you've done it. I suggest you read the FAQ for this room and learn why you should not post any fan fic idea, much less an actual piece of fan fic, to this room.

Guess everyone else was waiting for someone to say something to you first also.


Friday, October 18, 2002 10:27:37 AM

MPEG-1 is the version of MPEG video stream most people are familiar with and has been around a long time. It supports a bit rate of up to 1.5 Mbps (megabits per second).

MPEG-2 is a newer encoding method which is primarily used on video streams found on DVDs. It supports a bit rate of upwards of 10 Mbps. It's encoding scheme is also a bit more involved requiring more processing power to decode it. This allows for a higher quality picture as well when compared to an MPEG-1 encoded stream at comparable bit rates.

MPEG-2, especialy torwards the higher bit rates, requires too much data for most conventional CD ROM drives to keep up. This is why MPEG-1 is used to create VCDs, for video CDs. These are especially popular in China.

Most DVD players support MPEG-1 and you can tell this by looking either on the DVD player or in the DVD player's manual for the VCD logo.

MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 use very different encoding methods so they are not interchangable. But where there is MPEG-2 support, there is usually support for MPEG-1.

On a side note, MP3's are not MPEG-3 but MPEG-1 Layer 3. Whole other discussion.

Friday, October 18, 2002 09:57:57 AM

Josh> Whether or not you can get 10 or less episodes on DVD depaends on whether you captured them to your computer in MPEG-1 format or MPEG-2 format.
But MPEG-1 is generally called the Video CD quallity format. And MPEG-2 is generally called DVD format.
I don't know if these two forms are interchangable as far DVD goes. All I know is that MPEG-1, 30 minutes converts to about 300 Megabytes.


Gray Wolf
Friday, October 18, 2002 03:39:31 AM

Carl Johnson CD music is available online at http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/archives/audio/CarlJohnson/ or you can just click my name.

Yes, the music from first season is a 12 megabytes. Keep that in mind if you're downloading this stuff over a modem.


Friday, October 18, 2002 12:51:22 AM

Ok I need a little feed back as I am going to publis part fo my new story on a fan fic site. So sence it is a gargoyle story I thought this would be the perfect place to get the proper feed back before it goes public. Thanks so much!!

Chapter 1: A Strange Discovery

Night fell over the gardens of Pike Mallok's large private estate. The roar of its owner breaking free from a day's sleep echoed throughout the gardens. Pike ran his fingers though his thick brown hair brushing the remaining pieces of crystal from it. He stretched his large green wings yawned, then he grabbed a nearby broom and as he did every night slowly swept up the pieces of crystal shards left behind.
The afterglow of the sunset danced over the tops of the trees and bushes turning them lovely colors. A cool spring breeze spread the smell of flowers thought the air. Night birds sang and the full moon slowly began to raise over the distant hills peeking thought the thin layer of clouds. All was peaceful or it should have been, but something wasn't right. Pike could feel it. He moved slowly towards the house his sharp eyes and keen ears taking in everything. Halfway from his roost to his house he heard the noise that had set off his Gargoyle senses. He froze listened more closely for a moment. It sounded like a sob. A sob? "Now I'm hearing things." He thought.
Pike lived alone, he had no family or servants and his friends, odd as they were, could be found for the most part in the old abandoned castle atop a nearby hill. The castle was believed by most people to be haunted but in truth it was just a legend that some of the local gargoyles and other odd magical creatures used to give themselves a safe place to stay. For many years now they had lived there in peace and comfort. With all the Quarrymen yelling for the destruction of gargoyles in Manhattan, a place like that was more than welcome as their beliefs were quickly spreading like wild fire through out the country. There were no other dwellings for many miles around. So what on earth could he have heard? The bushes near the front gate moved against the wind and a soft sound like a sob came from that general direction. He took a defensive stance and moved slowly towards the bushes his eyes glowing white. He peeked over the top and the sight that greeted him was not what he had expected.

As he peeked over the bushes the first thing he saw was wide green eyes peering out from under a mess of blond curls and looking deeply into his own glowing eyes. It was a young human girl who looked no more than 5. She sat curled up; her knees to her chest, in the bushes large tears running down dirty her cheeks. She looked tired, hungry and very scared. He moved closer and smiled down at her but she only looked up at him not moving fear shining from her eyes.

"Hello little one, are you lost?" Pike said, trying to keep his voice calm and soft as he spoke. "I promise I will not hurt you. Don't be scared." He reached out a taloned hand towards her but she quickly backed up just a bit, not too far as a large rose bush in full bloom grew behind her, blocking her way. He turned and quickly dashing into the house an idea having formed in his mind. He returned soon after holding a large patchwork blanket, which he held out to her.
"Are you cold?" He waited patiently to see if she would take it. It took several minutes of quietly standing there holding out the blanket before a tiny hand reached out and snatched it. Pike smiled to himself feeling like he had made progress, now to get her to come out.
"I bet you're hungry. Would you like something to eat?" Again there was no answer. Pike went back in and rummaged around in the kitchen looking for anything he thought she might like to eat. When he returned her had two heaping plates of food and two large glasses of orange juice. "Here you go! Come out and get some food." He held out the plate towards the bushes, not so close that she could reach it without coming out but close enough she could see and smell it. He placed it down on the ground just outside of her reach and began to slowly eat his own food remarking at how good it was, chewing each bit slowly "Yummy!" Her small dirty hand tried to reach out and grab some of the food, but he slid the plate back just a tiny bit. After a moment the hand reached out further and again he moved it just the littlest bit. This went on for quite some time and with each slide she was forced to move just a bit more until finally she had crawled completely out from the bushes, blanket dragging behind her. Pike sat very still watching as she sat there looking at him, wondering if he would move the food further. Then she seemed to be trying to decide if she should stay or run, but in the end hunger ruled out over her fear and she began to eat stuffing the food in her mouth as fast as she could.
In the hour or so it had taken Pike to coax the child out and let her eat the cool evening had turned into a cold cloudy one. The smell of rain hung heavy in the air. Just as Pike was beginning to wonder how to her inside a loud clap of thunder rang through the air. She screamed at the top of her lungs and lunged into his arms trembling, her face buried in his chest. Shocked he jumped slightly then wrapped his strong arms and wings around her tiny frame rocking gently. He whispered soft words of comfort and peace as he scooped her up and headed for the house. They managed to just make it in the big oak doors when the first drops of rain came pouring down from the sky.

"Now, what to do with you, little one…." Pike looked at the tiny blond in his arms as he wondered how on earth she could have gotten way out here, where she was from, who she was, and most of all what on earth he was going to do with her. The only real idea he had was to take her to Castle Coram and ask if anyone there had heard anything about a missing child. Surely someone out there was missing this tiny sweet little girl… But how would she react to the others? He looked down at her and found that she had curled up against him and drifted off to sleep. She looked like a little angel.
"You sure are cute!" He whispered, a talon sliding a stray lock of hair from her face. He kissed the top of her curly head. "Don't worry. I'll help you find your parents." He smiled and rocked her in his arms, quietly humming. After a while, the rain outside let up and the air cleared, the stars shining through the lingering clouds. With that Pike made his decision. He tucked the patchwork blanket tightly around her, walked up the twisting stairs to the balcony, which showed evidence that he often landed here, spread his wings wide and leapt into the air catching the wind and gliding out towards Coram in search of help.

Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:23:16 PM

Wait a second. I have a the Stargate season boxed sets (all two of them), and they have 5 episodes on a DVD, plus extras. I'm sure 10 garg eps could fit on a single DVD, bringing the total # of discs to 6-7 with extras. Not 20.

Lets not forget that those Paramount bastards sell *each* season of Star Trek TNG on a 7-disc set for $140. I'm sure disney could figure out a way to make a gargoyles set economically viable to them since we're such good customers ::coughSUCKERScough:: ;-)

Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:18:46 PM

****A DVD flies through the air landing in a DVD player (that was not there before) which is hooked up to the television. The player closes with the disc inside, and starts up. Blaise's image comes onto the tv screen.**** What can I say--had to add my two cents to this whole DVD business, among other things.

AARON> All right, I'll bite. Why is Gaston a long lost descendent of Canmore? :-)

B&B DVD> I didn't notice the encoding problems, but that may be because I wasn't looking for them. Instead, I have another frustration--I only have a 13-inch TV/VCR with slots for only one audio plug in addition to the video. The 5.1 track does not agree with such a...limited sound system--several bits of dialogue that originate from the right side of the screen (especially sung phrases in the opening number) are inaudible.
Other than that, I have no complaints and much praise. I LOVE the commentary track. So many wonderful anecdotes, and details I didn't notice until they were pointed out. One of my favorites is when they talk about the "moving bear rug" in Gaston's pub.

WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE ON THE "GARGOYLES" DVD> Well the full five-parter AWAKENING is a given.
I'd also like THE HEROES AWAKEN movie version since I like variety like that (part of the reason I got both the B&B and LEGEND DVD's was because they offered more than one version of the film).
All those interviews and stuff they shot with Roy and Co.--and basically an extended version of the featurette that was at the beginning of the movie's tape.
The TV spots (especially the one with Goliath's shadow chasing down the hood in the ski mask) and "trailer."
DVD rom materials (maybe the script or development files).
Character descriptions/galleries.
Cast and crew bios.
And, even though it's cheesy as gouda, the "interactive VCR board game" that came with the initial video release of the movie.
Did I mention a commentary track by Greg, Frank Paur, AND Micheal Reaves (sp?) as well?
[looks at what he wrote] Geez, while I'm at it, why don't I ask them to cast me as a main character in one of their next animated movies?

SPIRITED AWAY> Saw it this past Saturday and positively loved it. MONONOKE is still my favorite animated movie, but that does not diminish SA in anyway. I found it a very enjoyable fairy tale with AMAZING visuals.

That's about it, until I can think of something else to say. Until then, farewell. ****The DVD stops playing, the screen goes blank, and the player spits out the disc. Said disc promptly sprouts legs and eyes like a soot-sprite and scuttles out through a hole in the wall.****

Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:08:07 PM

For that matter, I wonder how Goliath would respond towards nude depictions of Elisa being circulated about (I've heard that the animators did a few of those as well).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:06:48 PM

Now, if this was about naked pics of *Angela*... it might be the only thing that could convince Goliath to join with Demona in her genocidal plans against humanity. :-D :-D
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Thursday, October 17, 2002 09:24:36 PM

SILVERBOLT - You wrote: [This may be the only time gargoyles comes out on DVD]

Only if sales are pretty bad; I plan to pick up two or three copies of the DVD when it comes out. (One to put away, one to watch until it wears out, and one to have just in case.) I figure everyone in here will probably do the same.

But even if the sales aren't as high as Disney might like that doesn't mean that the rest of the series might not come out on DVD. Remember that 2004 will be the 10th anniversary of the show and they might want to do something with it; if not revive it (or a spin-off or two or an OVA) then at the very least put more of it out on DVD.

You wrote: [How about video as well for the non DVD people?]

Video is a dying market. But they still do put stuff out on VHS. BEAUTY AND THE BEAST has beem rereleased on VHS too. They might still put GARGOYLES out on VHS again. But honestly I'd prefer DVD for higher video and sound quality as well as its duribility. The DVD will be far from wearing out long after I've gone blind from endlessly watching it. :-)

JIM R - You wrote: [Unless the DVD is made double-layered, double-sided, which would be ungodly expensive for Disney to manufacture, me thinks we won't get the entire first season on just ONE DVD all at once.]

I don't think that Disney would bother with the DVD-10 (double sided) format for its DVDs; too much hassle. I think though that you might be able to fit the entire first season on one if it didn't have any extras and if you were ready to compromise a little on picture quality. But I still don't think that they would ever do that - why release the entire first season on one DVD set when you can stretch it over at least another 2-4 DVDs and make even more money off of it?

If they ever do get around to releasing the rest of the series outside of AWAKENINGS I think that they would most probably put the rest of Season 1 on 2 DVDs, each with 4 episodes. The real question is if they ever decided to work on the second season - at anything less than 5-6 episodes it'll take forever and have an huge amount of DVDs too. (Hell, RUROUNI KENSHIN at 95 episodes with a lot of discs being 5-6 episodes each still took 17 discs to finish up; and thats without counting the movie and OVA's. Would they even start with GARGOYLES past the first season, especially considering that they have never ever released any other Disney TV series completely on any format before?)

MOONCAT - You wrote: [And then I want a new Gargoyles OVA series =) Sold directly first, then afterwards it would probably show up syndicated on ABC or on Toon Disney the following year.]

Me too. But not on ABC unless they want to use the Wonderful World of Disney timeslot that they have DINOTOPIA in. Otherwise just give it a block of primetime/late night space on the Disney Channel or Toon Disney. Or rent it out to CN. I'd love to see a CN commercial for GARGOYLES. :-)

TODD - You wrote: [What I'm more interested in is learning what Demona's response would be if she found out that a human was hoarding a lot of naked pictures of her - and that other humans wanted to see them. :)]

I figure probably outright disgust and anger outright. Although its possible that the thought "I've still got it...." combined with a tinge of embarrassment might cross her subconscious mind as she'd heading to get her lazer rifle.

GREG BISHANSKY - You wrote: [I don't think she'd care all that much. Gargoyles don't strike me as being very modest, except for Angela (and given her upbringing, understandable). I'm pretty sure Demona takes the attitude of "it's just skin". Humans are the ones who created this concept of modesty after all.]

I wonder though..... Demona is probably the most human thinking from all the Gargoyles, probably equal in level to Angela if not even more so. She has lived the last thousand years among Humanity, especially in Christian Europe. Even if she consciously would deny it, it could be possible that subconsciously the attitude might have rubbed off on her a little. Not to the extent that she changed her style of dress since she didn't but to the extent of how she might react to being seen nude, particularly by Humans. I always thought that she'd probably be the most conservative of all the Gargoyles, followed by Goliath, Angela, and Hudson.

ERIC - You wrote: [I hope this doesn't happen with the Gargoyles DVD.]

I hope so too although since I was watching BEAUTY AND THE BEAST on my computer I didn't really notice the same encoding difficulties. But then again I was impressed by the digital remaster so I wasn't really looking for major encoding problems.

I don't think that GARGOYLES will have the same difficulties although it will depend on how many versions of AWAKENINGS they put on. If they put just a spliced version and an episode version then it won't be too bad but if they put a new spliced version, the episode version, and the old VHS spliced version then it might be very similar. I'm just waiting to see AWAKENINGS digitally remastered.

You wrote: [4 episodes per DVD is not a viable solution, economically. That's nearly 20 DVDs. Yikes.]

If they go with DVD-9's (double layered) then they could fit at least 5 episodes on a disc. And if they decide to release double disc sets ala SABER MARIONETTE J with the exception of an individual disc here and there for specific stories like CITY OF STONE, AVALON and HUNTERS MOON then the entire series could probably be finished in 6-10 discs. That would help them put out the entire series on a decent number of discs. And the release numbers wouldn't be that much greater than most PIONEER anime series released.

You wrote: [One last thing, it's been over a year since the Carl Johnson CD went up for auction. Any worries about me posting the music now?]

Please post it; I'd love to hear it. But I agree with Josh - Stick to MP3. I personally don't mind if you lower the sound quality a bit to 64kbps so its not as perfect as the original CD but I'm more familiar with MP3 than I am with the OGG vorbis format and rather not have to install yet another codex on my machine. (Its still recovering from the DivX 5 Codex I put in and rushed to remove - automatic pop-ups every minute or two for Gods sake! It defeated the entire purpose of putting the codex in; I had to go back to a saved copy of DivX 4 I had.)

BABS - I'm sorry to hear what happened.

Airwalker - [airwalker999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Thursday, October 17, 2002 05:52:46 PM

Babs: Sorry to hear what happened!

Josh: You're right that WMP doesn't support OGG natively. It requires you download the codec. It's easily found at http://www.vorbis.com/download.psp and I can always mirror it here for the time being.

But you're probably right. Some people might not feel good about installing a codec on their own. Eh.. anyone want to express their opinon?

ALSO... if you haven't hit the _temp_ s8 forums in the past day or two I've posted a craptacular amount of junk relating to Ask Greg and I'm looking for ideas and feedback from everyone. Already some good ideas have come out and I'm hoping some more will!

Thursday, October 17, 2002 05:16:41 PM

I was wondering if everyone in here could give a quick prayer for a girl that was struck and killed by a car yesterday infront of my house yesterday, the kid who hit her is fine but his friends in the car are also hurt. Anything will help the famly I'm sure, even if its a god help them through the pain.
Kids please if you drive, please don't speed and also watch where your driving you never know what can happen if you take your eyes off the road for 1 second. Ive been living here in Bensalem for a few months ,from Philly and the kids here seem to like to speed around everywhere they go, with the empty roads we have, and that cost a girl her life; im sure she wasn't the first or the last. Please just always pay attention to the road when your drive.
Everyone stay safe and have a Happy Halloween.

Philly/Bensalem, Pa
Thursday, October 17, 2002 04:14:21 PM

Eric: Stick to MP3. Almost no one supports OGG. WMP doesn't even include it in its list of openable file types. Neither does QT, to my knowledge.

Not that OGG isn't a good standard, and its fine for personal use. I just don't think its good for distribution yet.

Thursday, October 17, 2002 03:39:53 PM

One last thing, it's been over a year since the Carl Johnson CD went up for auction. Any worries about me posting the music now?

I'm thinking in 64kbps OGG vorbis format. That way it isn't as perfect a copy as the original CD but it's pretty damn good nonetheless. Plus it also promotes an open-source audio format that's widely supported.

Eric - [eric@s8.org]
Thursday, October 17, 2002 01:20:21 PM

Todd: Demona's response would most likely be disgust followed by some intense planning on how to manipulate said humans to achieve her own goals. I doubt the disgust would be noticeable on top of her already huge mountain of disdain for humanity.

And on the one in a billion billion chance Demona had some sort of emotional reaction OTHER than disgust, I doubt she'd show it. She's locked any real emotion up long ago and thrown away the key. That whole thing about destroying her own clan. She won't face the truth, she can't, so she's in self-protect mode.

This relates back to the "Alone" cotest Greg had and the winning answers.

Eric - [eric@s8.org]
Thursday, October 17, 2002 01:15:47 PM

matt: the new scene is a musical piece that takes place just before the Beast takes a bath in preparation for his dinner with Belle, which leads to the ballroom scene.

The song is titled "Human Again" and it deals with the feelings of the castle servants and how they would like to be human once more. Gives something of a kick in the character development since in the original movie we simply assume the servants want to be human again. Now there is specific reasons why the servants want to be human again. It also shows many other servants in the castle that aren't seen in the original movie. Nothing noteworthy, just some added depth to the servants in the castle.

Eric - [eric@s8.org]
Thursday, October 17, 2002 01:07:56 PM

matt - The added scene was the song "Human Again" that was written for the stage show a few years back. Paid the money to see it in IMax (last year?). Really cool. That ballroom scene is still awsome.

Eric - < They threw three 90 minute movies onto one disc. This creates a space limitation that forces a lower bit-rate for the encoding of the movies. That lower bit-rate creates the pixelation effects you see throughout the movie, but especially in areas where there are large blocks of solid color or where one color fades into another. >

I'm tempted to dig out my laser disk version and see if it does the same thing with the pixelation. Since I have the laser disk, and my player still works, I'm hesitant to buy the DVD. Course if someone gives it to me for Xmas...

Gargs on DVD - I would be happy just to have all the episodes since I was foolish enough not to keep the tapes when it first aired and now I have NOTHING!!!! GR!!

******listens to echos around the comment room****

Ahem, excuse me, just testing the acoustics. Back to lurkdom.

Old Kathy - [tgatekeeper1@yahoo.com]
Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:21:55 PM

for those of us who don't know, such as myself, what is the extra scene added to the re-release of Beauty and the Beast?
Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:48:35 AM

BISHANSKY - Maybe, but I still can't help but suspect that Demona's response towards all those humans lusting after her would be priceless.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, October 17, 2002 07:41:57 AM

Beauty and the Beast DVD: I was disappointed for one reason, very poor encoding. They threw three 90 minute movies onto one disc. This creates a space limitation that forces a lower bit-rate for the encoding of the movies. That lower bit-rate creates the pixelation effects you see throughout the movie, but especially in areas where there are large blocks of solid color or where one color fades into another.

This has always been a problem with DVDs and animation. Live-action doesn't suffer from this effect as much because there is more complex detail forces the encoding to generate more key frames.

I hope this doesn't happen with the Gargoyles DVD. However the downside is that if the bit-rate is increased, the amount of space for episodes decreases. 4 episodes per DVD is not a viable solution, economically. That's nearly 20 DVDs. Yikes.

So ... we'll see I guess.

Just wish Disney had put one copy of the BatB movie on a separate disc with a high bit-rate. Would have been nice.

Although the 5.1 audio made up for the encoding artifacts. There were some scenes that were really done up nicely with the 5.1 surround sound.

Some of the "updates" to the movie I didn't like. The ballroom scene, after the dance, is too damn bright now. The low lighting created more mood. The new, bright version lessens the intimate mood.

I also don't like the new scene. I like the song, I just didn't like the modern Disney animation style which put everything in less detail and looking a lot more plastic than before.

And on one final note...

THE GUY FROM LAW & ORDER IS LUMERE!?!?!?!?! When the hell did THAT happen?! He can sing? HE CAN SING WITH A FRENCH ACCENT?!

Well i'll b damned.

Next thing you know you're gonna tell me that guy who ran the beach hotel during the later years of "Saved by the Bell" did Pumba's voice in the Lion King. HAH!

Thursday, October 17, 2002 02:08:01 AM

DVD Features> Well, I'm sure it will be just the first five episodes. If it sells well, we'll get more.

Features, the TV versions of the first five episodes. Digitally re-mastered.

Greg Weisman's audio commentary. Perhaps get some of the other writers or VAs to join him. I'd do one VA interview per DVD, space them out over each release.

Commercials and trailers for the series. Bumpers. Character bios. VA bios.

Behind the scenes stuff, like a documentary. Production art.

And of course a nice menu. I'd have Demona with a blaster rifle, and she shoots at what ever you select.

And Frank Paur's naked Demona pics. Like the one he let me xerox at G2001 ;)

Greg Bishansky
Thursday, October 17, 2002 01:18:11 AM

TODD> <<What I'm more interested in is learning what Demona's response would be if she found out that a human was hoarding a lot of naked pictures of her - and that other humans wanted to see them>>

I don't think she'd care all that much. Gargoyles don't strike me as being very modest, except for Angela (and given her upbringing, understandable). I'm pretty sure Demona takes the attitude of "it's just skin". Humans are the ones who created this concept of modesty after all.

Greg Bishansky
Thursday, October 17, 2002 01:09:53 AM

Todd> "What I'm more interested in is learning what Demona's response would be if she found out that a human was hoarding a lot of naked pictures of her - and that other humans wanted to see them. :)"

Pah! Puny humans don't deserve the _honor_ of seeing the glory of a naked gargoyle. ;) Although I'd severely worry for the human's guts if Demona got a hold of 'em.

DVD Features> I've honestly no clue on this point. Although I'd like to hear the flubs of the "Street Pizza" line. But beyond that . . .

And, I'm out.

Lady Baltimore
Thursday, October 17, 2002 01:01:37 AM

Gargs DVD> One word. Goliath. You can throw in the series and all, but the rest needs to be an uncensored view of Goliath. MWahahahaha!! ;)
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, October 16, 2002 08:01:24 PM

Just link dropping... We extended the MGC voting for another couple of days due to a code glitch earlier in the month, so you have until FRIDAY to head over and pick your favorite work of art. Good luck, it's TOUGH this month. *L*
Kessalia - [<< MGC ]
Wednesday, October 16, 2002 07:16:12 PM

AARON - << I want all those naked pictures of Demona that Frank Paur is hoarding. ;) >>

What I'm more interested in is learning what Demona's response would be if she found out that a human was hoarding a lot of naked pictures of her - and that other humans wanted to see them. :)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, October 16, 2002 06:54:57 PM

For the DVD and VHS. I would also like to see some Commentery, and some goof ups, also short interviews with the voices of each char; they can do it in person or as the char. I wouldnt like to see 20 mins. of what Disney wants to be it's new movie coming out, I always fast forward them anyways. I guess it would be ok to have a online store type thing I'm guessing that it would be an extra part giving info on where you can buy new and used garg stuff.

I would also like to the see the making of the "Gargoyles" seeing the drawers,inkers,colores, any computer work that was done in the show, any work to see how the shows and movies came together, the drawings about what they first had in mind for each char and what it looked like before they got the one they used.

And a big part here a whole section for answered things (for ppl that couldnt go to the gatherings) like what is Titina say to Fox, what happened to Coldstone after the last of the clock tower, etc....

Just put out whatever anyone can think, just as long as it fits on 2 dics ( for VHS ppl umm sry buy a dvd player I guess). AND !!!! when you buy the movie in any form DVD or VHS you geta free Poster or movie cards.

Thats all I can think Of I just woke up Ive been sick with the flu for the past week so if anything doesnt' make sense or if I said something wrong Pardon me.

Happy Halloween All!

Babs - [Barb018@hotmail.com]
Philly, Pa
Wednesday, October 16, 2002 03:59:18 PM

Beauty and the Beast DVD> I was skimming through it over the weekend, and I've decided something. Gaston is a Canmore. No doubt in my mind.

Gargs DVD> I want all those naked pictures of Demona that Frank Paur is hoarding. ;)

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
Wednesday, October 16, 2002 03:41:21 PM

What I'd like to see on the garg's DVD:

Well, first, my ideal Garg DVD isn't a DVD. Its 4 or 5, with the whole show on them. It would be cool if some of the major episodes (Awakenings, The Gathering) were done with commentary by The Greg (TM). Voice actor commentaries would be welcomed as well.

Like Monsters, Inc. DVD, it should have pictures of preliminary character sketches and other "didn't quite make it" stuff, like random characters, extra scenes, etc.

Did the Coldstone episode in the Himalayas ever get made? If so, that should be on the DVD too.

In other words, stuff we can't even see at the Gathering.

And I want a pony. 8-)

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Wednesday, October 16, 2002 02:06:46 PM

DVD extras I'd like to see -- the production art, the sketches and other art the public doesn't normally get to see (like the spiff Demona sketch on the back of the voice acting dialog pages for the radio play)

The Greg voice over commentary track, and ooooh! one with the actors discussing the episode track. Marina Sirtis, Jonathan Frakes, etc. Interviews with the Voice Actors. I'd love to see Fox's voice actress do some commentary on the show.

The Back Ground Music for the show, each characters themes, the whole ball of yarn! um... wax? All the music =)

The Gargoyles Writer's Bible and/or the full original script of each episode on the DVD -- that would be ultimate coolness =)

And then I want a new Gargoyles OVA series =) Sold directly first, then afterwards it would probably show up syndicated on ABC or on Toon Disney the following year.


Well a girl can dream, can't she?

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 10:32:44 AM

Phil> "Here's my list:
Awakenings - Movie
Awakenings - 5-episodes
Rest of the first season - 8-episodes
Audio commentary w/ Greg Weisman and ...
Interviews with voice actors
Design gallery
Bad Guys leica reel; other spin-off pitches (Dare I hope?)"

Whoa! I think you're overestimating the space of a typical consumer-friendly DVD. :) Unless the DVD is made double-layered, double-sided, which would be ungodly expensive for Disney to manufacture, me thinks we won't get the entire first season on just ONE DVD all at once. Hmm...maybe all of that minus the 8 episodes *might* fit one just one. You'd almost have to have the first Gargoyles DVD be a 2-disc set instead which would be cheaper than producing one giant DVD, but I doubt that will happen.

Anyways, I'd like to see any bloopers or goofs that were made by any of the voice actors, animators, or mistakes in the cartoon that we've never seen and such which were caught on tape. I mean, there's ALWAYS mistakes in any production, and it's always funny to laugh at them or laugh at any of the voice actors/priduction team (that includes Greg) goofing off. :)

Jim R.
Wednesday, October 16, 2002 10:19:24 AM

Phil> Behind the scenes production footage of Disney Japan.
Roy Sato
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 07:14:00 PM

Phil> I would like to see deleted scenes and original character designs. (I mean I heard Demona's hair was supposed to be black until they changed it red, thank god!)
I would love to hear interviews with the people who did Gargoyles. Let this DVD have the works! Jam it so full of stuff that it's 7 Discs long! This may be the only time gargoyles comes out on DVD (How about video as well for the non DVD people?) so let it appear with everything that made the show so great!!!!

Faieq> Another UK person! @_@ *speechless* Yes I totally agree with you about Toon Disney! I'm sick of the cartoons they show! They are so low quality, can't they do something original? Put some quality on instead of the rubbish they have instead! Teamo Supremo was the LAST straw!

Silverbolt - [silverbolt2012@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 03:30:31 PM

*Sighs* While everyone seems to be getting ready for this Halloween marathon, I sadly lament over the fact that Toon Disney UK doesn't even show Gargoyles anymore in Britain.
Hercules and Sabrina have sadly replaced the show! I have no quarrel with Hercules but Sabrina can sometimes get a bit boring and having been subjected to this show along with, Recess, Weekenders, Pepper Ann and Lloyd in Space non stop over the summer, you get a bit tired of these shows. Oh well I suppose it had to happen some day.
In other news, English Literature has officially become the MOST boring subject at school. I think the book that we are reading at the moment, Wuthering Heights, is brilliant. The problem is that our teacher is so boring, the way that he goes on and on. When we first started the book he said we would have it finished within two weeks; six weeks later and we're still only on chapter 10 (the book has 34 chapters by the way). He spends a whole 40 minutes talking about one paragraph, analyzing every sentence within.
At the moment I am not looking forward to doing Shakespeare with the guy, even though we are doing a short one.
Happy Birthday Spike!

Tuesday, October 15, 2002 03:04:38 PM

Its a little late but - Happy Birthday Spike!

PHIL - You wrote: [Has he said what he's busy working on? If he has, I missed it.]

I don't think that he has mentioned anything to us at this point. I admit that does make me a bit curious. What could it possibly be?

You wrote:: [I've had my Beauty and the Beast DVD for a week and I still haven't seen everything on it.]

I watched through both discs in the two days after I got my hands on it although I admit that I did forward through an extra or two and I didn't bother with the interactive game in the Chip section. I still can't get over what a good job Disney did with this release. They really cleaned up and worked over the actual feature presentation - you can compare the disc quality with the original quality by watching the various trailers. Its like looking at two different movies in terms of visual quality.

And I think the fact that they included three different versions of the movie on the same disc is a good sign for the GARGOYLES DVD. The BEAUTY AND THE BEAST disc had the special edition release which was basically the original release with an extra scene added in, the original release, and the in production version that they showed a few months before the movie was completely finished. The odds are now good that we can get both the individual TV episode version of AWAKENINGS as well as a spliced together movie version of it all on one disc. We might even get the VHS spliced edit thrown in as an extra on top of everything else.

You wrote: [What would you like to see on the Gargoyles DVD?]

A message saying that there is a new series or one of the spinoffs or an OVA in production and that the rest of the series is going to be put on DVD no matter what. :-) :-)

What I'd like to see are all the various commercials and trailers that Disney did for the series. I remember some of those commericals from way back when the series was about to be released and I'd love to be able to get a copy of them. (It would be nice if they included some of the second season promos also so that I can stop occasionally asking in here if someone has a copy of them that they can convert to Quicktime.)

I wouldn't mind Greg Weisman Audio Commentary and some new interviews from the Voice Actors so that Disney could hype the Star Trek element and get Trek Fandom to leap onto this DVD. (When this DVD does come out we should head over to some of the Trek boards online and tell them about it - it can only help sales and get the rest of the series done if we get the numbers of Trek behind us.)

I would love to see actual visuals in the development process that lead to the series that we actually got - Greg has talked about it on ASKGREG but it would be nice to have some illustrations to go along with that.

It would also be nice if they put together a few music videos for this release although if they do anything like that JUMP 5 video I'll pull my hair out. (The mixing of BEAUTY AND THE BEAST scenes in it was good but those damn kids had to pop up every few seconds and do something that supposedly was singing. God, how I long for the days when people who couldn't sing stuck to the Karaoke bars....) I'm thinking about something more along the lines of Bandai's music videos - the ones they had on the SABER MARIONETTE J discs and on the last ESCAFLOWNE TV disc are great examples of an interesting and well done music video.

You wrote: [Bad Guys leica reel; other spin-off pitches (Dare I hope?)]

I wish; but its highly unlikely to happen. If there was a leica reel done for the comedy version or for early in development of the drama version that was actually done then that might make it on. But I don't think BAD GUYS would get onto this disc unless they were going to use it to hype the series actually coming to TV.

And as much as I'd love to see that there really isn't anyplace off of cable to put it on. We've had this discussion tons of times and the conclusion is basically that syndication is dead, Saturday morning can't support anything near GARGOYLES or any of its proposed spinoffs, and TOON DISNEY doesn't seem ready at this point to try to use GARGOYLES or one of its spinoffs to get into competition with CN in the evening and late night slots.

Unless something in that formula changes (most likely TOON DISNEY or the DISNEY CHANNEL deciding to go for more GARGOYLES or some spinoffs) its not likely to happen anytime soon. Which is really a pity. I'd love to see BAD GUYS; it could be great competition with any X-Men series. (And I personally think that if Disney is going to market something like that - something like GARGOYLES or BAD GUYS or one of the spin-offs then they should really concentrate on DVD release and on marketing it to the same community that picks up anime. The same crowd that searched for MONONOKE and went to see SPIRITED AWAY are the same ones that would be most likely to actually want to spend money and time on finding, buying and watching the series.)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 03:04:16 PM

It's been over a month since that last episode discussion. Can't really complain though; it's good that Greg is busy.

Has he said what he's busy working on? If he has, I missed it.

Since it's not likely (yet) that he's working on new Gargoyles episodes, I hope he's working on the DVD. I've had my Beauty and the Beast DVD for a week and I still haven't seen everything on it.

Here's a topic for discussion: What would you like to see on the Gargoyles DVD?

Here's my list:
Awakenings - Movie
Awakenings - 5-episodes
Rest of the first season - 8-episodes
Audio commentary w/ Greg Weisman and ...
Interviews with voice actors
Design gallery
Bad Guys leica reel; other spin-off pitches (Dare I hope?)

Of course, I'll take what I can get, but what else would you all like to see?

Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 12:13:19 PM

Still alive... but still no internet access in my room. I have to keep borrowing my roommate's 'puter when I get the chance. *sighs*

Anyway, Salli Richardson was in one of the episodes of Stargate: SG1 that were on today. She was Teal'C's wife, which is massively preferable to being Tony Danza's girlfriend. ;)

Can't spell, going to bed. Night everybody.

Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 02:56:28 AM

Thanks, Vash. looks like the page was slightly altered from the writings of the approved one...don't know how that slipped by me...*growls at no one in particular and runs out*
Monday, October 14, 2002 07:12:15 PM

Happy birthday, Spike!
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, October 14, 2002 06:49:21 PM

Happy B-DAY SPIKE!!!
Happy late B-Day to Dreamie!!!!

Demona May - [realdemona@yahoo.com]
The Insane one!
Monday, October 14, 2002 04:18:32 PM

Happy Brithday Spike...Happy belated Birthday to Dreamy.
Monday, October 14, 2002 02:09:46 PM

Happy Birthday!!!


Monday, October 14, 2002 11:18:12 AM

A special Birthday greeting to one of the great artists/fanfic writers/all around great person amongst the garg fandom. Spike(aka Christi Smith Hayden). Have a wonderful Birthday *hugs*
Wingless - [canclan@rogers.com]
Monday, October 14, 2002 10:15:38 AM

11th! oh well, I had to sleep sometime =)


Monday, October 14, 2002 07:13:07 AM

10th!!! *sigh* great, my homeworks done, I've put my new fic up about Delilahs sister and now this, this just dn't get any better... *sees something* OH MY GOD! A PENNY!!!!!! This is the greatest day of my life! :P
Silverbolt - [Silverbolt2012@hotmail.com]
EnglandMonday, October 14, 2002 05:43:47 AM

Greg B.> You might want to fix the part on the mascot page that says Madison is the daughter of Angela and Brooklyn. I believe her father is Broadway. Otherwise, nice update.
Monday, October 14, 2002 02:26:54 AM

I wouldn't get any of these if I weren't usually up at 1:00 AM on Monday mornings . . .


Lady Baltimore
Monday, October 14, 2002 01:18:44 AM


And just so you all know, there was a Gathering 2003 announcement shortly before the room was wiped.

Greg Bishansky
Monday, October 14, 2002 01:14:45 AM

Sending out my weekly hello to all!
And claiming number 6 hehe

Monday, October 14, 2002 12:58:27 AM

I shall take fifth...

Princess Alexandria
Monday, October 14, 2002 12:45:37 AM

Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Monday, October 14, 2002 12:29:11 AM

Top Ten! Hopefully three. :)
Ravyn and Coyote
Monday, October 14, 2002 12:22:02 AM

Knoxville - [knox@ketnar.org]
Monday, October 14, 2002 12:04:41 AM

#1 on the Weekly top 40. Wingless and his yellow text.


Wingless - [canclan@rogers.com]
Monday, October 14, 2002 12:00:19 AM