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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending June 30, 2003

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Re: Lex's mate> "It's nobody we have met in the show yet but he wouldn't give any more details on him, including species (so all 3 are open)."
Or an New Olympian. Maybe Talos. *laughs maniacally* Anyway, the guy's bound to be a geek, so a NO would be possible.

The Coma-man> "BTW, the next thing we have to speculate 'bout is if there are any lesbian/Bi-sexual girls in the show."
Do the Weird Sisters count? ;)

Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Sunday, June 29, 2003 09:07:10 PM

Hey guys!!
How was the Gathering and all, I wasn't able to go?
I was also wondering; did anyone see that pic of gargoyles playing volleyball by the beach? I have no idea who did the pick, but I love it and want a copy of it. Does anyone have the artist's name?
And . . . . I was also wondering if there was a way I could get a copy of Photoshop cheep? I want to try to start doing art on the computer, but I don't have $700.00 for the 7.0 program, or whatever it is now.
Anyway, cheers!

Shauntell - [mariadestine@worldnet.att.net]
Layton, Utah, USA
Sunday, June 29, 2003 06:10:46 PM

Yeah, kinda everybody seemed to know. But besides this, many said that it was kinda clear, since GARGOYLES main theme is to depict "outsiders" or not socially completely perfect groups... however, I have to tell that it is quite a surprise to see a gay GARG's fan 'round since (dunno why) I didn't thought there were much... well, after all maybe well get now some kinda group outing... ;)

BTW, the next thing we have to speculate 'bout is if there are any lesbian/Bi-sexual girls in the show. ;D :lol:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Greg'll have a LOT to do when he comes back.

The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Sunday, June 29, 2003 01:49:46 PM

I KNEW IT!!! (of course many people kinda had their suspicions) its funny cuz i always kinda assumed Lex was gay. in fact, my boyfriend had not really seen much of the series, and we were watching a episode together and he asked if anyone on this show was gay and i said "yeah, him" and pointed to Lexington. true, i didn't know for sure, but i guess my gaydar is pretty good, and its nice that it is confirmed. i'm really glad Greg told us this, but also really glad that he hasn't told us more about who Lex will end up with, we don't need to know everything, it would spoil all the surprises later on!

i'm gonna wait til the room clears and people start getting back from the Gathering to ask my trivia question. seems more logical and fair to everyone that way... plus i gotta think of a good question!

Sunday, June 29, 2003 10:42:17 AM

Possibly true.

I just feel sad 'cause now a whole branch of spekulation is broken of. EVERYBODY was speculating 'bout it, and if not, then they were mostly shocked when they first heard it.

I'm not THAT surprised, since it was a discussed theme and the german syncron-voice is quite...well... you can guess it . ;)

So then, now we have to speculate if Lex mate will be human or Gargoyle...

The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Sunday, June 29, 2003 07:51:58 AM

Whoa, that is a surprise! Not entirely, since I've seen fannish speculations about Lexington of that nature before, but I hadn't expected it to be Greg's idea about Lex as well. (The fact that he and the fans seem to have come to the same conclusion independently gives further evidence of a Gargoyle Collective Sub-Conscious out there.)

Does anybody besides me suspect that when Greg gets home from the Gathering and starts answering questions at "Ask Greg" again, one of the first things that he's going to post is a ramble about Lexington's orientation?

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, June 29, 2003 07:42:44 AM

Hey all,

The message has arrived. Years we speculated, wondered, wrote, but now it is official: This came with a newsletter:

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:56:12 -0000
From: "ircgoliath" <goliath1@pacbell.net>
Subject: News from The Gathering

I'll give more details later (and hopefully other attendees will fill
in the gaps) but in a more mature themed QA session, Greg Weisman just
confirmed that Lexington is gay. More details later, back to the con for

-- IRC Goliath

The second mail:

Now for those additional details I promised.
The subject was actually brought up by one of the female attendees (I believe
it was Lexy) who flat out asked Greg if Lexington way gay. Greg seemed a little
reluctant to let go of the information and he paused and then said "Yes, Lex is
gay" (almost under his breath). I don't know if he simply wasn't ready to give
up this information, or if he was worried about how the fandom accepts
homosexuality but suddenly the room came alive with questions and here were the
additional details we were able to squeeze out of him:
1. Greg didn't always know Lex was gay. For those of you that have never been
to the Gathering before to have QA with Greg, he believes his writing is
similar to the way Michaleangelo sculpts. Michaelangelo said that the statues
are already there inside the marbel block, it was simply his job to chip away
the excess. When Greg writes, it's almost like he's tapping into an alternate
universe that is the show and the stories would simply flow. Many of the shows
major revelations would not click with the writers until they were actually
writing it, such as Owen being Puck didn't hit until they were writing The
Mirror and Fox being in love with Xanatos didn't hit until The Edge was being
written. In Lexington's case it came out around Turf. Yes, he was being a
complete dumb ass like his brothers when it came to all things Angela but
you'll notice he was the first to stop and back off as he suddenly began to
question why.
2. By show's end, Lexington was 18 and still doesn't know he gay but he is
begining to question and discover himself. Greg also believes in slow, organic
processes and relationships. It took 65 episodes just for Goliath and Elisa to
kiss so Lexington is not going to suddenly be out, proud, and shouting it loud
over the course of 2 episodes, these things take time.
3. Greg already has somebody in mind for Lexington's mate. It's nobody we have
met in the show yet but he wouldn't give any more details on him, including
species (so all 3 are open).
4. Lexington is not attracted to Brooklyn and Broadway (sorry if I ruined it
for anybody). While nobody asked if he was attracted to Goliath or Hudson but
based on the conversations as a whole, I'm going to assume not.
5. As far as actually writing it in the show, Greg would try to get away with
as much as he could without getting fired. Unfortunatly it's the reality of
society. As he was talking he mentioned that he felt cowardly about having to
do it that way because why couldn't he show two men being in a relationship and
kissing but, when it comes to pushing the envelope or continue to writing the
show (and earning money :D) society wins out. More than liekly he would have
been introduced as Lexington's "friend" that would lead you to eventually draw
conclusions that Lexington was gay (if you're inclinded to draw those
6. Gargoyles ARE accepting of homosexuals. The are caring and protective by
nature. They are also naturalists, in a manner of speaking, and it's another
distinction between them and us (humans)
7. A quick side note to answer one of bnd_wlf's questions: Thom Adcox was
present during this QA session and it was pretty obvious that he had no
problems with it... This was especially obvious when I asked the crude question
of if Lex was a top or a bottom To which they both answere versital.

Well, that's all I can remember for now and it's off to take a shower and get
ready for the next part of the Gathering.

-- IRC Goliath


So much for details. Now: dicussion!

The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Sunday, June 29, 2003 07:20:51 AM

I guess I'll be the first to post a con journal. I only finished Day 1; I really need to get some sleep or there's no way I'll be able to wake up for the auction tomorrow. Day 2 & 3 and pics to come soon.

I'm looking forward to seeing everyone else's pics/journals! So far, it's been a blast.

Sunday, June 29, 2003 04:06:28 AM

Matt - You get to ask the next question or designate somebody else to ask it. Either way, you can't answer the next 2 questions for points.

Here's the scores so far:

Demona Taina - 3 points
Matt - 2 points
Leo - 1 point
Wingless - 1 point

Reminders: Demona Taina can't answer the next question for points and Matt can't answer the next 2 questions for points.

Saturday, June 28, 2003 08:42:52 PM

Well, I hope all the Gathering attendees are having a grand old time.

Finished making my second and third Garg dvds yesterday. Working on the 4th now. I discovered a way to record wavs off of each episode on my HD. Been playing around with that. I had thought about getting some bonus stuff together to put on each dvd, but I don't think I have a lot of Gargoyles stuff to put in under a Bonus Materials heading. I've decided not to redo the Goliath Chronicles, so using my current setup, it'll take 22 dvds to fit the 65 episodes of season 1 and 2. Since that last dvd will only have 2 episodes on it, I'll put all the bonus stuff on that disc. Actually, I may do it on the previous disc and then put all three parts of Hunter's Moon on that last disc. Yeah, that sounds like a winner.

Now I just have to figure out how to put some Gargoyle quotes in front of the menu music....

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Saturday, June 28, 2003 03:46:28 PM

So here I am using a friend's handheld, sitting in a late nite forum with greg and thom adcox. Kinda cool.

Greg wrote a kimpossoble episode. Nana visitor was originally the voice for fox, frakes was fired then rehired as xanatos, and there are a lot of blue minds in here.

Have fun

Saturday, June 28, 2003 01:18:15 AM

Matt: Yep, "The New Olympians" is correct. You earn the last point! DPH will provide you with further instructions...

Now wasn't this a fun little challenge? I can hardly wait to see what you guys will come up next...

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Friday, June 27, 2003 10:30:22 PM

if anyone is still around who is going, HAVE FUN AT THE GATHERING!!!!!! take notes for us!

Demona Taina> ok, is it "The New Olympians"?

Friday, June 27, 2003 09:35:24 PM

That "Gathering". Stupid Me.


Battle Beast
CanadaFriday, June 27, 2003 05:22:33 PM

Hey all. Everyone's at the Gather I suppose; I am just about to leave for Vancouver Island (and QFI ^_^).

TODD> When I first saw "Enter Macbeth" I was rather surprised... Macbeth was the first Shakespear play I ever saw, and I loved it (untill I saw A Midsummer Night's Dream. Then I saw "The Mirror" and was elated when Puck showed up.)

When they falshed the stained Galss I immidiatly knew it was Demona, but I wondered what his connection to her was. At the end when he states that he named her, I figured out that they had been through some stuff together, although I didn't know what. I figured out then that Demona (and Xanatos) had been lying about her being in stone sleep Like Goliat Et. all. (I hadn't yet seen "Temptation" so I din't know Demona told Brooklyn about that she had lied.)

ELISA ON CRUCHES> This was, and has been, a favourite point of mine throughout the series. It's the first time you really get the feeling that things don't jsut "go away" after each episode... (Like "Bonkers" or "Duck Tales" where one episode is never mentioned in another.)

I also like the moment when The face flashes in the swords and one of them is picked up. That's good animation. But I didn't like the part where Macbeth pulls his arms toward his s=chest and his mouth gives that "figure 8" look. I think he's mad that a Gargoyle escaped. This look reminds me of that quizzical look Goliath give in "The Price" where he's looks ing at the powder all over Hudson. That look just kills me. I love it.

The Dents in the door from Goliath, the Brick wall he destroys, the Gummie Bear sarcophagus (SP? DID ANYONE notice that it looked like a Gummie Bear?) the burning STONE... ugh... I can't stand it. But, being as this is an important episode, I wish it had been done better.



Battle Beast
CanadaFriday, June 27, 2003 04:50:55 PM

Matt: Nope, "M.I.A." is incorrect.

Do you guys need a hint?

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Friday, June 27, 2003 04:09:43 PM

Nickerous> yeah, the animation in "Enter MacBeth" was pretty bad. almost certaintly in the Top Five worst animation eps of Gargs. the style wasn't so bad as the obvious impossibilities like having a clearly stone floor burn or (this is the worst) when Owen is watching the battle on the tv we see Goliath hit the ground and a flash appears beneath him i guess to show he hit hard. but there is no sound and its so easy to see. its like Goliath landed on a firecracker or something, lol. only "Kingdom" had worse animation mistakes i think (two Hudsons and Bronx scene comes to mind, as well as showing Fang as Talon several times)

anyway, when i first saw "Enter MacBeth" i had only heard of macBeth and knew almost nothing of either the play or the actual history surrounding him. i do remember being excited and intrigued by his knowledge of the gargoyles and his connection with Demona.

Demona Taina> ok, is the last of the 4 kiss episodes "MIA"?

Friday, June 27, 2003 11:02:02 AM

Matt, Leo, and Wingless - On the contest, I'm going to fudge with rule#1 for you guys because you guys only got one point. So you three can answer the next 2 questions unless one of you gets another point from that question. In that case, the person who got 2 points from that question will not be able to answer the next 2 questions for points and the others can still answer questions for points.

I'm still going to hold off participating until the 1st 2 questions get answered completely. I feel like giving a clue away to this answer: The remaining episode is on the world tour.

Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:54:29 PM

Just finished capturing Enter Macbeth a few minutes ago. It was an ok episode. I liked every episode in season 1, with the possible exception of Her Brother's Keeper. Enter Macbeth is second in that unfortunate catagory. I don't know how many comic book readers we have in here, but, I have been a devout comics fan for over 10 years now. One thing that irks me is when a "guest penciller" is brought aboard to cover for the regular penciller. Just something that bothers me. And really, sometimes a guest penciller isn't so bad.

I refer to Enter Macbeth as a dreaded "guest animator" episode. There are glaring differences between the first 6 episodes and "Macbeth". The animation really isn't THAT bad, but I keep wondering what it would have looked like with the same team from the previous episodes. I really don't know, but I figure that they had numerous episodes in production at the same time, therefore, the same team cannot be in two places at once. Still....I don't think that the animation was up to the previous episodes' standards.

Like I said, the episode itself wasn't so bad (story-wise). I can see some differences from Thrill of the Hunt and Awakening, but they are not as pronounced as they are in Enter Macbeth. One scene that really throws me for a loop is at the very end, when they show the Gargoyles in stone sleep on top of the tower. Lexington is the closest one and he looks horrible! I always refer to that picture as "Old Man Lexington". It looks like a pair of false teeth just fell out of his mouth!

Like I said before, guest books/episodes are not always a bad thing. I absolutely loved the animation in The Price. No other episode in the series had quite the same feel to it. The action scenes, the closeups....everything about that episode was outstanding (in my mind, anyway).

Anybody else notice these things about Enter Macbeth, or am I just being nitpicky?

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:05:22 PM

I remember in the archives that someone asked how the fire spread so quickly in Macbeth's house since it's mostly built from stone. Forget what Greg's response was other than that they goofed.
Troy, NY, USA
Thursday, June 26, 2003 08:29:09 PM

Watched my tape of "Enter Macbeth" this afternoon. The introduction of Macbeth into the series. At the time that it first aired, I was immediately interested the moment that the title appeared on the screen - "Macbeth" is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays - although I didn't guess then that it was going to turn out to be the real Macbeth (and one based more on the actual history than Shakespeare's was at that).

A particularly funny part, I believe, is when Xanatos tells Owen while he's in prison that his stay has been "a learning experience". As Blaise (I believe) commented once, one gets the suspicion that what he learned from it wasn't so much "Don't commit crimes" but "Don't get caught when you're committing them."

Another scene that I get a kick out of is Owen watching Macbeth fighting the gargoyles and arching an eyebrow in a disapproving manner when he sees all the damage that Macbeth is causing to the castle.

I rather wonder what everybody made of Macbeth the first time that they saw this episode (not that I'm expecting too many answers since I suspect that almost everybody here will be busy packing for the Gathering, but I just thought that I'd say it anyway). Especially when they found out about his being connected to Demona (first the stained-glass window and then his outright statement that he's after her - and named her).

I really liked Macbeth's castle, especially all the suits of armor and old medieval weapons in it, and thought it a pity that the whole place burned down.

Elisa on crutches after "Deadly Force" - another nice touch, I thought. I wonder how many first-time viewers were surprised that they actually did something like that.

And the gargoyles move out of the castle and into the clock tower - and stay there until the end of the second season. As Greg Weisman said in his ramble, it's like Batman losing the Batcave for 56 episodes.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 26, 2003 07:37:13 PM

Matt: Hunter's Moon 3 is correct! You get one point!

So, what is the fourth episode? Can anyone tell me?

DPH: Gee, that's a toughie. Well, let's see. The person who gets the fourth episode right will ask the question. Well, that wasn't so hard...

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Thursday, June 26, 2003 03:52:01 PM

Demona Tain - Ok, stupid question: who gets to ask the next question?
Thursday, June 26, 2003 02:55:52 PM

Demona Taina> i know one of them! right before Elisa kisses Goliath in Hunter's Moon 3, Goliath "kisses" Elisa by stroking her hair on top of the Eyrie Building.
one more left, i suppose i'll guess, ummmm... is it "The Mirror"?

Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:20:19 AM

In the end, there can be only ONE... more day until The Gathering!
Thursday, June 26, 2003 06:53:54 AM

Er, meant to say Goliath, Angela and Bronx. but you got the point...er, or I did ^_^
Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:37:16 AM

Leo and Wingless get one point each! "Deadly Force" and "Heritage" are two of the answers. Can anyone tell me the other two?
Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:25:36 AM

Demona Taina:"Deadly Force is correct. The other three aren't."

Ok then, now that I got 1 (which is all I thought was needed) I will no longer make any more guesses since any answer I get wrong will just make it easier as there will be less episodes to choose from. :p So I'm assuming I get ONE piont out of that one?

Next person?

Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:54:16 PM

Re: Trivia Question. Another one of the episodes is "Heritage" when GOliath, Elisa & Bronx fear she's drown. after Bronx saves her from the Bear, and she askes if he's seen Goliath & Angela. They run up to each other and embrase, and Goliath Strokes her hair again. (a very cute moment -all together now- Awwwwwwwwwwww ^_^)

Can't think of the other 2.

Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:51:52 PM

DPH: If I put the word "kiss" in quotes, that would've given away the answer, don't you think? :P

I also never said that it was a literal kiss. I left that open to interpretation because the question was supposed to be difficult to answer...

You guys wanted a challenge, and I gave you a challenge. So, yes, when I say "kiss," I OBVIOUSLY mean hair-stroking. What else would it be? He doesn't literally kiss Elisa, ever, in season one and two. Hair-stroking, however...

Goliath "kisses" Elisa in four episodes, and he is aware that he is doing it. Elisa is also aware that he is stroking her hair, but I don't think she knows what it means. Now, what are those four episodes?

Leo: Deadly Force is correct. The other three aren't. Keep trying!

And, BTW, I keep forgetting to say this... The trivia question is worth four points. Now, who dares answer it? ;)

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:00:48 PM

Demona Tain - 1st you say it's a literall kiss - if you meant where Goliath strokes the hair, you would have put the word kiss in quotes. Now, you say there are 4 times Goliath kissed Elisa. That's wrong unless you meant when Goliath stroke Elisa's hair because the 1st time Goliath and Elisa shared a literal kiss is during Hunter's Moon part 3.

I'm invoking rule #6 [Rules can be modified to ensure fairness for all.] to amend rule #5 [(If nobody gives good attempts to answer the question correctly within 48 hours, then a new question is asked. (how long to wait for a correct answer when good attempts are given is open to the person asking the question, but at least 72 hours are needed).]

Rule #5 will now read as follows:
If nobody gives good attempts to answer the question correctly within 48 hours, then a new question is asked. If a question is a bit ambiguous about what the correct answer might be, the question should be rephrased immediately or a new question gets submitted. (how long to wait for a correct answer when good attempts are given is open to the person asking the question, but at least 72 hours are needed).

Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:23:15 PM

I have hundreds of Gargoyles collectibles. If anyone is interested, email me.
perfecto - [wholesaler274@aol.com]
passaic county, nj, usa
Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:21:21 PM

Demona Taina: "I'll give you all a hint. Goliath kissed Elisa in four episodes! Good luck!"

Deadly Force?, Cloud Fathers?, Eye of the Storm?, Future Tense? ARRRG!!!

I don't have tapes to go back and reference. I don't really know!!!!

But still, any 'hair stroking" is subject to various interpretation. As far as I'm concerned the only type of "kiss" that counts is one where BOTH Goliath AND Elisa recognize the gesture as such. Therfore there ae NO episodes in season one or two where Goliath kisses Elisa.

I think you should just ask another question, a 'non-ambiguous' one that has one clear answer.



Wednesday, June 25, 2003 08:50:03 PM

I knew it was a challenge... All right, let me post the question one more time for those who missed it.

In what episodes of Season One and Season Two did Goliath kiss Elisa? Note that there is more than one episode and that I meant Goliath and Elisa, not Elisa and Goliath. Also note that Season Three doesn't count, and thus, "Seeing Isn't Believing" isn't an option.

Leo: Nope, not Bushido. Better luck next time!

DPH: I can't really narrow it down because there is no actual pattern... It's all the episodes from Season One to Season Two.

I'll give you all a hint. Goliath kissed Elisa in four episodes! Good luck!

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, June 25, 2003 05:50:53 PM

Only two more days until The Gathering!
Wednesday, June 25, 2003 06:44:39 AM

Matt - Yeah, it was probably better to have Broadway glide Elisa to the hospital, it did make it more realistic. But if they did do a 9-1-1 scene, what would Broadway say to the 9-1-1 operator? Plus having someone call 9-1-1, within Elisa's apartment, would have made it a lot harder for Elisa to explain what happened, if she ever did that is.

To Those Who Are Going To The Gathering - You guys / gals / gargs :) are so lucky! Wish I was going! But since I can't go, I want to wish you all a fun filled weekend and a safe trip to The Gathering and a safe trip back, and let me know all about it when you get back. ;)

Wednesday, June 25, 2003 01:56:39 AM

DPH:"I'm getting concerned that about no new attempts at the getting the next correct answer right for the trivia contest."

Fine! I thought I woul wait and lt someone else have a try. How about "Bushido"?

Tuesday, June 24, 2003 06:13:05 PM

...and so it begins... my VACATION that is! <flings confetti like Rip Taylor!>

Thank GOD! I have two whole weeks to unclench from stress and enjoy myself. Of course, I kick it off in NYC after a full day's ride on a train direct from Tampa... but that's just the deal when one isn't too trusting of airlines yet.

Plan to be in the Big City by 8 or so the 26th... then after dinner and a night's sleep, it's off to the Gathering. (can't believe it's only my second time too.) ^_^

Still have to pack, so I'd better get moving...

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [ssobotka33616@yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Tuesday, June 24, 2003 05:55:30 PM

I'm getting concerned that about no new attempts at the getting the next correct answer right for the trivia contest.

Demona Taina - Is this first kiss you are talking about before the events of "Avalon", between events of "Avalon" and the "Gathering", or from the "Gathering" to "Hunter's Moon"? That oughta narrow down the field a bit on where to look.

Tuesday, June 24, 2003 04:09:37 PM

Well, I found a song I like and I just finished burning my first DVD+R (everything before had been on +RW). I chose the opening theme. There is a great flute (at least it sounds like a flute) opening segment and then it rolls into what I know as the main theme. I extending the loop from 15 seconds to 52. Most of the theme is in there and I get to see more of the episode in the thumbnails. All in all, I'm very pleased with my first effort. I know that I can improve on it, but, my HD is filling up fast and I need to get these 3 episodes off of it in order to get more in.

I would really have liked to go to the Gathering this year, but....tis not to be. Maybe next time....

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, June 24, 2003 01:56:11 PM

Hello everyone,

Deadly Force> Much love all around. When Elisa was hovering near death, the first time I saw it I was really worried. Usually in cartoons, no one ever dies, but two things occured to me during that commercial break. 1) Death was a possibility in this series. Both Hakon and the Captain died as well as all the clan in 994. 2) Elisa wasn't that central to the clan that she was indespensible. So I was on my feet when they came back from commercial.

The ending also spun my head around. At frist seeing Owen as the buyer, I thought, 'Is this another plot by Xanatos like the Pack and Cyberbiotics?' But the more I thought about it the more it made sense that they'd buy it back from the thieves. Xanatos is very goal oriented and while it might be galling to buy back your stuff from the guy who took it from you, at least he got them back.

Also mad props to whoever thought to call them particle rifles instead of the lasers. Since the days of GI Joe and Transformers, lasers have been a cliched substitute for guns. putting a little more science behind it made it a credible part of the show's universe not just a convention for S&P.

Gathering> If I don't get a chance to later this week. I want to wish everyone a safe and fun trip. For you first timers, enjoy! For you oldtimers, show the newbies New York gargoyles-style. May a good time be had by all.

Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:41:57 AM

Deadly Force> as everyone else has said, this is one of the best episodes for so many reasons.

one thing that always occurs to me is how angry Goliath was at Dracon and how angry Broadway is at anyone using a gun for a bad reason. those two are seriously scarier in this episode than in any other. one reason is because when i first saw this episode we didn't know Goliath and Broadway well enough to know that they had very gentle and sensitive sides. at this point they seemed capable of all sorts of violence if provoked. and i still think broadway is one of the scariest gargs when hes mad. we are just so used to seeing broadway in a good mood that when he snaps its creepy. and him lifting Glasses by the head... thats gotta hurt...

Jade> good point about having Broadway call 911. would've been great for the kids, but i think it turned out more realistically. in fact, given that the Clan had only been in town a few weeks at this point, Elisa was awfully lucky that broadway knew where a nearby hospital was...

blood trail> i think for a few feet around where Broadway left Elisa there may have been a blood trail, but we have to remember that broadway was gliding fast. any drops of blood from Elisa would probably be few and far between. and plus if you found a few drops of blood on the street, would you think to follow the trail to the top of a nearby building? odds are the cops figured that whoever shot Elisa drove her to the hospital and never looked for a blood trail.

what i wonder is what Elisa told Chavez, Matt, the Mazas and everyone else? she couldn't tell them about Broadway, but she wouldn't be dishonest enough to tell everyone Dracon shot her. i wonder what her story was...

Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:11:03 AM

Well Gathering-goers, I can't make this year's one, but I'm sure to be there in Montreal (I can afford CANADIANN $$$!!! ^_^ )

So have a good time...

Right now, I am off to do my Biology Final Exam, and then I go on a trip to visit my 106 great Grandmother on friday.

I'll be sure to visit Grandmother and Nick on QFI while I'm around Vancouver Island. ^_^


Battle Beast
CanadaTuesday, June 24, 2003 10:43:47 AM

Deadly Force - the best part of that episode was the rise of background noise and music as Broadway is playing with the gun. After it goes off everything is SILENT except for the steaks Elisa was frying.

Then there's that 10 or 15 seconds while Broadway is trying to collect himself and apologize for playing with the gun and you immediately know what happened. BUT, you have to wait to see if it's true.

Great use of audio in that scene to really highten the tension. Then the seemingly long pause there before Elisa being shot is revealed. Excellent scene. You can almost hear Greg Weisman shouting "Yeah, I did it. But I'm not going to let you see it. HAH!" Wicked tease.

I think emotion was displayed very well in this episode as well. You've got Goliath on the verge of becomming a berserker and Broadway completely devastated by what he's done to his friend. That devastation gets transformed into his own berserker rage as he goes after the mugger with the gun in the park and the the the the.

It's also a pivotal episode in the series as from this point on you see Gargoyles not just kicking guns out of the hands of bad guys but taking the extra moment to destroy them. The continuity is great.

Eric - [eric@s8.org]
Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:04:50 AM

Delurking again for one more question:

Is there ANYONE going to the Gathering who's sticking around on Monday night?

I ask this because I just realized; the hotel room is booked Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. Due to communication problems and my family's inability to tell me if they can give me a ride to the station or not, my train out of New York leaves at 5 pm.

The problem? Check-out time is 11 a.m.

Is anyone going to have a hotel room during the day where I can put my luggage safely rather than dragging it around for six hours before my train leaves?

I know, I know, but I honestly did not expect I'd be leaving New York so late...

Mandolin - [weirdweb@mail.com]
Tuesday, June 24, 2003 09:04:33 AM

And then there were... three days left until the Gathering!
Tuesday, June 24, 2003 06:37:32 AM

DPH - I never thought about the blood trail! You'd think they'd check for all of that, especially since Elisa was a cop. I wonder what Greg would have to say about the blood trail or if he ever thought about it before. I would have NEVER thought about the blood trail, man talk about being observant on your part. :)
Tuesday, June 24, 2003 01:34:04 AM

Deadly Force - Admittedly, I consider it the most prized episode of all, just because Toon Disney refuses to air and the version that was aired was horribly censored. One stupid question: Did anybody ever bother checking the blood trail to determine how in heck Elisa Maza got to the hospital? It would be interesting, especially if Broadway was flying Elisa over a rooftop and blood dropped there then the next drop of blood was on the street and another on a roof top.
Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:33:04 AM

Anyone who is interested, History channel is, as I speak, airing a show called: "Comic Book Superheroes unleashed." Voiced over by none-other than Keith David.
Monday, June 23, 2003 10:05:25 PM

Todd:"Anybody with a good knowledge of New York architecture able to help me out here?"

Here's a site that lists most of the major buildings in NY and groups them according to the period/style of when they were built. they all have photos and addresses. You may recognize a few.

Monday, June 23, 2003 09:00:36 PM

Deadly Force - This is probably one of my favorite episodes because it "shows" (doesn't "tell") what can happen to you or your friends if you mess around with a gun. With Broadway going to a Wild West movie shortly before shooting Elisa, it really made me think about how "fake" movies really are. In the movies, someone can die from a gunshot and be alive again once the camera is turned off, but in real life it is a one shot deal.

When I saw Broadway messing around with the gun and pretending he was a Cowboy, I knew the gun would go off, I just knew it. Then when the gun did go off and Elisa didn't answer, I knew something was wrong, I figured she had gotten shot but I was surprised to see blood coming out of her stomach/side. After all, you hardly ever see blood in a cartoon.

As far as if I thought Elisa would die, I kind of knew that she wouldn't because she was a main character and all, but then again it was still pretty early in the series and it could have gone any way. I was really proud that Broadway knew what to do and took Elisa to the hospital, however gliding around with her in his arms when she a bullet in her worried me. Elisa had lost a lot of blood just in her kitchen and I worried that moving her around might cause her to lose more blood, but how else would Broadway get her to the hospital?

Broadway and the others had only been in New York for a few weeks or so, so I'm sure he didn't know how to use the phone, and if he did I bet he didn't know the address to Elisa's house. But I've always kind of wondered about that, if Broadway used 9-1-1 I think it would have enforced the knowledge on how to use 9-1-1 in the younger viewers. After all, we all can't glide to the nearest hospital and drop our friends off when they are hurt. :)

However, I'm surprised that Broadway didn't stick around the hospital to make sure that Elisa was alright, that she was going to make it; perhaps the guilt was too much for him at the moment. The image from this episode that has stuck to me, even through all these years, (besides Elisa laying on the kitchen floor bleeding), is when Broadway was on the building crying, it made me want to cry too. :(

Towards the end, I thought it was really cool the way Broadway and Goliath went after Tony Dracon. But poor Tony, to have a gargoyle after you thinking you shot his best friend when you didn't, I sure wouldn't want to caught up in that situation!

But in the end, Deadly Force was not only an educational learning experience on gun control for the younger viewers, but also a good reminder for the older viewers on gun control.

Monday, June 23, 2003 08:50:01 PM

I don't remember if I thought Elisa would die or not, but I was pretty shocked to see Elisa get shot. After seeing Broadway playing with the gun, I figured he'd hit a pot and scare Elisa pretty bad, or maybe graze her shoulder or something. I didn't think she'd get a major injury out of it (also didn't expect to see her shuffling around with crutches in the next episode...nice touch there....most toons would have gone right to her being fully healed).

The image that sticks with me the most (one of my favorite images of the series), is Broadway holding Glasses up by the head. That and Broadway really losing his temper while searching for the guy selling the guns.

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Monday, June 23, 2003 07:44:41 PM

Watched my tape of "Deadly Force" today. Quite a few things to say about it here.

Of course, we all know about this being a landmark episode (Elisa gets shot by Broadway, Captain Chavez, Cagney, Elisa's family, Dracon and his gang, and even Matt are introduced, we get our first look at Elisa's police station and the famous clock tower, etc.). So I'll go into a few things that strike me about it.

Owen shows himself to be very capable, in everything from handling one of Dracon's henchment and wresting the gas mask away from him on down. I sometimes wonder if a lot of the other super-villains out there are feeling envious of Xanatos for having somebody as skilled and efficient as Owen for his "sidekick", especially when you consider how often super-villains in cartoons customarily get saddled with bungling idiots for sidekicks.

One of the most chilling scenes in this one (alongside Elisa getting shot, of course) is when Owen tells Goliath that Elisa's just been shot and may not survive, and does so just as the sun's coming up so that all that Goliath can do upon hearing it is look horrified just before he turns to stone. You've got to admit, when you stop to think it over, that that must have been real torture. Imagine receiving news like that about somebody whom you cared about and being unable for the next twelve hours or whatever to do *anything* about it. (I definitely wouldn't want to undergo what Goliath must have undergone during his dreams in stone sleep that day.)

We get some real indications of Goliath's feelings for Elisa here when he visits her in the hospital room. Definitely a treat for fans of the two of them.

I wonder how many people, the first time that they saw this one, actually thought that Elisa might die. (I honestly can't remember now what I thought the first time that I saw it.) Greg Weisman mentioned that he did consider it a bit dishonest to allow Elisa to live, but had her do so because he still needed her in the series. I can't say that I blame him, either; I doubt that the gargoyles would have survived much longer without her help. Finding a new friend would be difficult, especially in light of how every other human whom they'd met since awakening had either been simply straight-out scared of them (such as Brendan and Margot) or had betrayed them (Xanatos and the Pack).

There's a scene in Act Two where Broadway's sitting on top of a building with some fancy-looking statuary close by, crying, while Elisa's being operated on. I still wonder occasionally whether the building that he was seated on was a real one or a made-up one, and if the former, what it was. (Anybody with a good knowledge of New York architecture able to help me out here?)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 23, 2003 07:23:25 PM


Had many, many problems trying to get my first dvd off the ground, but, I finally got it done. Had to get a new burner, but, that's just fine. Got a better one than I had for only 40 bucks more. Plus, I got a 4 year warranty on it instead of 1 year. Wheeee!!

The menu didn't turn out exactly like I wanted, but it still looks good. The close up of Goliath with green eyes is there, but now, instead of a still shot for each thumbnail, they are motion thumbnails. Right now, I have a 15 sec clip of music from Last of the Mohicans. I think I'll push that to 30 seconds and see if I can't get some Gargoyle quotes/music.

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Monday, June 23, 2003 07:13:18 PM

Oh, for Gathering Staff(or whomever updates the website). Any chance U could do an update of the registration list? It was last updated June 1st and, personally I'd like to know who else is going. (besides, even though I'm going-I don't quite beleive I'm going...maybe it will sink in a lil more if I see myself listed there. Sounds crazy i know-but then U all know I am nutz anyway)^_^
Wingless - [mrstereo@rogers.com]
Monday, June 23, 2003 12:05:44 PM

Hey, Gathering goers: We've got an event packed weekend waiting for you starting bright and early Friday when registration opens. Don't miss out on a single Gathering minute.

Check out our schedule at:


or click my name to go straight to the schedule page.

Monday, June 23, 2003 11:26:55 AM

Wrong pic.
Monday, June 23, 2003 11:19:01 AM

Matt> Bitter much? :)
Monday, June 23, 2003 11:18:44 AM

Number 9!

Four more days until The Gathering!

Monday, June 23, 2003 06:55:05 AM


but does anyone want to check to make sure i am actually eighth? i was told last week that i don't know how to count even though i was right...

Monday, June 23, 2003 06:48:02 AM

7th in the name of the Fay

GARGOYLES NEW LEGENDS has a new website (the old one is still active but is locked up and can't be updated)


Episode Three: COMING OUT is now up online. There is still some artwork pending for the is episode, but it will added at a later date, with alerts in the art gallery section.

If you would like to read/review the new episode, the URL is


I'll have a hard copy of it and the previous episodes with me at the Gathering for looking over, as part of a GNL display. Some of our GNL production crew will be at the Gathering. Ellen, Allaine, and I for sure, possibly others.

Two days till I hop a plane and head to New York. *^_^*


Monday, June 23, 2003 12:57:31 AM

Monday, June 23, 2003 12:45:01 AM

Monday, June 23, 2003 12:36:20 AM

Monday, June 23, 2003 12:07:19 AM

Monday, June 23, 2003 12:05:46 AM

Knoxville - [knox@ketnar.org]
Monday, June 23, 2003 12:03:28 AM

Woo! First-since I wont be here to be first next week-since I'se going to the Gathering! Woo!
Wingless - [mrstereo@rogers.com]
Monday, June 23, 2003 12:01:44 AM