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Comments for the week ending July 21, 2003

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Battle Beast
CanadaSunday, July 20, 2003 04:53:21 PM

Lynati: <Does anyone know if the Detroit lot are going to throw in for 2005?>
2005 is doubtfull for us. '06 is doubtfull too, mostly because I see Disney trying to do something directly with the Gathering that year, but otherwise, we talked some time ago and we do hope to do a Gathering some time, but we are really not sure whether we can or not, purely due to finances. That was the primary reason we bowed out of 2004.

Fire Storm
Sunday, July 20, 2003 03:53:12 PM

Hi all! I'm coming here with news from the Gathering 2004 staff.

Our website, www.GatheringOfTheGargoyles.com, will be ready at the beginning of August, as well as online registration.

Now, we're thinking of doing something special in terms of contests this year, and I'd like your opinion on the following idea.

We want to do contests for writing and art, by setting a particular theme around which the art and the stories have to be drawn and written. For the writing, we will ask for short stories; for art, it will have to be b&w illustrations. The winning entries will be put together as a book, and a third contest would be for the cover of the book -- a colour illustration would get chosen for that. Now, we're talking about a real, german bound book (like a paperback), in 8 1/2 x 11 format, an anthology of Gargoyles-based stories with an art section, which we would pre-sell to finance the convention. Right now, according to our price research, we'd sell the books for $15.

Would you participate in such a contest? Would you buy such a book? If you have any comments on this, please let me know here, or at the email address below!


Kanthara - [poll@gatheringofthegargoyles.com]
Sunday, July 20, 2003 02:25:37 PM

i think Demona felt surprised by Goliath's sudden appearence when they jumped to 994, and i think his presence kinda rushed her in her speech to her younger self. Demona may have thought for a long time about what she would say to herself, but Goliath distracted her.
Sunday, July 20, 2003 01:25:40 PM

hey, just to keep with the times, what are the current "bids-in-planning" for future Gatherings? Does anyone know if the Detroit lot are going to throw in for 2005?
Sunday, July 20, 2003 09:56:09 AM

I agree with Airwalker; it's definitely been slow this week. I'm not sure whether a lot of people are away on vacation or whether they just feel less like posting. I hope that things pick up next week.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, July 20, 2003 07:13:26 AM

Damn, its really dead in here this week.

TODD - You wrote: [That leads me to wonder whether Demona-975 mistakenly believed that Demona-1995 meant the humans in the castle, rather than outsiders like the Vikings.]

The real interesting thing here is the absentmindedness in the wording of 1995Demona's warning; I imagine that she thought a very long time about what she was going to say but she let her modern frame of mind slip through. After all to 1995Demona Humans are just Humans regardless of who they are and where they are. But to 975Demona the only Humans that she knows and who she would associate with the word are the inhabitants of the Castle. Would the idea of the Vikings as "THE Humans!" even enter her mind in its 975 worldview?

You wrote: [Here it isn't simple revenge over the way that Princess Katharine, the Magus, et al were treating the gargoyles. Presumably Demona was also afraid that the humans were plotting to turn on the gargoyles and massacre them]

The behavior and feel of the situation in AWAKENINGS 2 didn't exactly give her any reason to feel differently. It is true that she helped to force the situation into the Massacure that it became but even if she hadn't had a glimpse of the future, I still wonder if she might have tried something. Perhaps nothing so drastic, and perhaps with more imput from Goliath but the situation at the beginning of AWAKENINGS was explosive and dangerous. Everything was really building up and something would have to give some time.

And also, wasn't the Magus actually technically plotting a bit when he went to specifically look up and bookmark the Sleep Spell he eventually cast? I know that it doesn't particularly count towards Demona's "they're going to kill us all, I know it!" frame of mind but still odds are good that something was going to happen. The setting in AWAKENING 2 between the Clan and Wyvern Humans seems more like a powder keg than anything else.

You wrote: [Petros Xanatos introduced]

Loved the character and was sorry he didn't get even more screentime than he did.

You wrote: [and just look at how he responds to Demona]

As I think about it, I don't think that his shocked reaction is really that out of place. After all when Xanatos tells him about Gargoyles and shows him a tape of them, its probably only a tape of Goliath destroying Steel Clan robots. Thus when he saw Goliath he was prepared to see him; but that wasn't the case for Demona. (Same goes for Petros Xanatos; in fact doesn't he have an even stronger reaction than the judge when she entered?)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:06:25 AM

Hello again, just thought I'd add a few comments about the new cartoons that have been talked about.

Gary the Rat: Really liked it. Very funny and clever and Kelsey Grammer does an excellent job.

Stripperella: Borders between terrible and unwatchable. Can't believe Stan Lee did this, but it seems to be a trend, as Toonzone reported today that he's working with Hugh Hefner on "Hef's Superbunnies." Senile indeed.

Spider-Man: I actually liked it, with the exception of Neil Patrick Harris doing the voice of Spidey, as his jokes seemed forced and awkward and deliveries were bland, and the fluctuating mask eyes, which are a long time peeve of mine. In general I don't care for CGI cartoons, but I didn't think the animation was terrible and I really liked the fight scenes. Looking forward to tonight's episode with Doc Conners/The Lizard voiced by Rob Zombie.

Thats all I've got. Bye now.

Evermore - [pfog@velocity.net]
Albion, PA, USA
Friday, July 18, 2003 09:27:18 PM

Saw my tape of "Vows" today. The first time travel episode in the series, and one that establishes the whole "history is immutable" concept. (Something that I grasped from the start, since my own fiction follows the same rules - and followed them before "Gargoyles" even came out.)

One of the features that particularly interested me, the first time that I saw this one, was the Illuminati being confirmed as real. In fact, the first time that I saw this episode, I found myself wondering what Matt would have thought had he seen Xanatos wearing that Illuminati badge.

We find out for the first time about the Archmage's quest for the "ultimate power" (and the first time that I saw this, I rather liked the mention of the Eye of Odin, without even suspecting the ramifications there). I wonder how many people in the audience were expecting to see the Archmage again after "Long Way Till Morning".

The bit that I find interesting about Demona's visit to 994 is this; Demona-1995 only says that the clan was destroyed by the humans, without giving any details or specifications over which humans. That leads me to wonder whether Demona-975 mistakenly believed that Demona-1995 meant the humans in the castle, rather than outsiders like the Vikings. Because if she did, that puts an interesting new face on her betraying the castle nineteen years later. Here it isn't simple revenge over the way that Princess Katharine, the Magus, et al were treating the gargoyles. Presumably Demona was also afraid that the humans were plotting to turn on the gargoyles and massacre them, and decided to make her deal with the Captain in the hopes of averting the massacre - and thereby helped cause it instead. That makes it more interesting, I believe, because of the paradox (which I find intriguing) of an event brought about by the very effort to prevent it. (I'm reminded of a scene in "The Lord of the Rings" where Galadriel tells Frodo and Sam, regarding the visions in her Mirror, "Some never come to be, unless those that behold the visions turn aside from their path to prevent them.") A similar thing pops up in "City of Stone", where Duncan's very efforts to prevent Macbeth from replacing him as King wind up leading to Macbeth becoming king. (When I discussed that with Greg Weisman, he commented that it was, in a sense, the true "Oedipus complex".)

Lots of other fun bits here; Petros Xanatos introduced, Hudson finding out about Goliath's visit from the future (and being shown as already suspicious about the Archmage), Xanatos and Fox getting married, the story of how Xanatos became a multi-billionaire revealed, etc.

One note that probably hasn't been discussed quite that much: I can't help but feel a little sorry for Judge Roeblyn (the J.P. at Xanatos and Fox's wedding). I mean, think about it. He first shows up at the castle to be greeted by the future groom in a suit of red gargoyle armor. Then he's presiding over a ceremony where the best man and the maid of honor are both a pair of bat-winged living gargoyles (and just look at how he responds to Demona), and where they, the bride, the groom, and the groom's father, all disappear for a few moments in a ball of fire. I can't help wondering what sort of condition he must have been in by the end of it.

(Of course, knowing Xanatos, I'm not the least bit surprised that the officiator at his wedding would be a Justice of the Peace rather than a priest or minister; Xanatos never struck me as the least bit religious.)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, July 18, 2003 07:13:00 PM

Wow, pretty quiet week.

TODD - YOu wrote: [I wonder how gargoyles who are afraid of heights would fare.]

I think that Gargoyles would look at the situation completely differently than we would - after all I'd be much less afraid of heights if I had a pair of wings on my back that I knew how to use. :-)

NICKEROUS - You wrote: [Oh yeah, did anyone catch the Spider-man series on MTV this past weekend?]

I caught an episode yesterday; it left me feeling conflicted. On the one hand its Mainframe who is doing the CGI so I wanted to try to like it. But on the other hand its Doogie Howser doing SpiderMans voice. Uhhh. I don't think I'll watch it again.

(And what is Mainframe thinking? What happened to them? I had to wait for the ending credits to make sure that they were the ones behind the CGI because it looked so bad and so unlike anything that they had on their other series. Aside from some of the web slinging this series looks more like a rush job than anything else. Its not even close to REBOOT S4 or BEAST MACHINES. Hell its not even ACTION MAN. I'm hoping they only did this for the money and put the real effort into SCARY GODMOTHER.)

TALEWEAVER - You wrote: [Striperella]

So Stan Lee finally went senile. I understand Sex sells but this show is just a waste of energy that could have been invested in obtaining real porn for the same timeslot. :-)

You wrote: [I imagine the pitch meeting for this went something like "Kim Possible? Meet you're sluttier older cousin from Hollywood."]

:-) :-) :-)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Friday, July 18, 2003 02:20:19 PM

Todd> i thought that was just my computer... wonder what that was about...
Friday, July 18, 2003 09:38:04 AM

Good to have this place back up again. So does anybody know why it was down this morning (along with the rest of Station 8 and Wyvernweb)?
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, July 17, 2003 07:01:35 PM

Hmm. Interesting revelations from Ask Greg, especially about dates.
Thursday, July 17, 2003 06:55:35 PM

"I imagine the pitch meeting for this went something like "Kim Possible? Meet you're sluttier older cousine from Hollywood.""

It is funny because it is true.

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 08:32:00 PM

If the Gathering is at that time, I might be able to go to a football game too! Hmmm... the possibilities...


Battle Beast
CanadaWednesday, July 16, 2003 04:01:26 PM

Hi all,

That I'd help out and pick things up in the comment room. Saw Jimmy's comment and I thought I'd toss in my tupence on the sumer helping of new shows.

MTV's Spiderman> First, let me say that there is something vastly weird and wonderful that in a twenty-four hour period you can see incarnations of Spiderman from each decade ranging back to the 70's. As for the show itself, I think it needs the late night time slot. Not for S&P's sake, but because at late night one's critical faculties aren't at their strongest. I saw one episode at 11 and thought it OK if a little predictable. I taped the second one and saw it in the morning and was shocked. The CG animation takes some getting used to. Too its credit it does give things a more comic book feel. The webslinging and fight scenes were well done. The stories do need to be tighter if it's going to survive. It faces stiff competition from those previous incarnations of Spiderman. And you can only hear Peter Parker whine so much about the demanding life of a superhero before you hope Doc Oc smacks him down for good.

Striperella> I could make the double entrendre about how this is meant to be a tongue-in-cheek send-up. I could compare it to her other lackluster attempt at a career beyond Baywatch. (VIP and Barbwire come to mind) Instead let me speak to the target audience: the twelve year old boy in all of us. Young man, I know you are curious about the opposite sex. You're now seeing girls in a different like. If you wish to learn more about them...check out the internet or cable or your local magazine rack. Don't go to Striperella!

Honestly, I understand sex sells, but in such a competitive market you need to do more than barely blushing stripteases. The jokes fall flat and the action just doesn't keep a guy awake. I imagine the pitch meeting for this went something like "Kim Possible? Meet you're sluttier older cousine from Hollywood."

Gary the Rat> The jury is still out on this one. I have only seen one ep and it usually takes two for me to get a strong vibe. I had three genuine laughs but spaced out over twenty-two minutes isn't a good sign. Of course three laughs have been the average for a Simpson's airing so it remains to be seen.

On last word about SpikeTV, never let it be said that men are only interested in sex and gross-out. Me? I want violence and cool gadgetry to boot. If they want to be the first network for men (And I see ESPN, FOX Sports and Cinemax collectively saying 'What!') don't deny your viewers those impulses as well.

Taleweaver - [************************]
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 03:53:46 PM

MGC and AMGC both updated

Winners for the Egyptain Gargoyle Topic
Kythera for 'Isis' for Most Artistic
Dreamie for 'Emerging from the Tomb..' for Most Creative

Current topic for submissions, Video Game Gargoyles

Congrats to Rita for the new AMGC mascots, Rita and Fiore!
Congrats to Spike for Mistress of the Night winning Most artistic!

Current topic for AMGC Gargoyles Pinups Cheesecake/Beefcake.

(and amgc has a forum now)

Siryn - [ekkapinto@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 02:39:22 PM

::Comes in after reading Ask Greg:: LOL. Yes, I can look back and laugh about this.

I'm probably never going to live this one down ;)

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:43:58 AM

I would like to post more, but I really am just not in a typing mood, so the longer my post is likely to be, the less likely I am to do it.
Spider-Man> Yea, it was awful. Animation was terrible, story-lines are terrible and the non-main characters seem very blah. But Brian Micheal Bendis's writing is still pretty good. Nowhere near par to his work in the comic, but in such a crappy show, it shines as its one redeeming virtue.

Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:18:18 PM

sry for the dp.

That pic of dvd menu number 3 is linked to my name....then again, maybe ya'll figured that out. <:\

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 08:48:57 PM

Howdy folks. I was shocked to discover that I did not post last week....then I realized that with my internet hookup on the fritz for the whole weekend had a major contribution to the no-post.

Taking a break from Gargoyles on DVD. I have all of season 1 done and the first two episodes of season 2. I started on one of my football games and got half of it done. It looks amazing. I'm particularly proud of the menus.

Another thing that contributed to my no-post was a charming, sweet, and beautiful female whom I had the pleasure of taking out, not once, but twice last week. *sigh* I'm such a big softie. ^_^

I have a pic of the menu from dvd number 3. One of my fav menu shots so far. DPH, I have finally found the material for your bonus disc. I will get that out to you this week. I apologize for the delay, but, trust me.....you will be happy with what is on that second disc.

Well, I need to do some more Gargoyles, but don't think I will tonight. I'm getting anxious to work on other dvd projects that I have lined up. Oh yeah, did anyone catch the Spider-man series on MTV this past weekend? Ugh. I couldn't sit through it. The animation was terrible (IMO anyway) and I have never liked the white "eye-patches" of spider-man's mask squinting or widening. It a mask. It's not alive. This is not the Venom symbiote. Ugh....major Ugh (just my opinions here, if any readers out there liked it, then good for you. Different strokes for different folks, I say).

Later ppl

Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 08:45:24 PM

Just read ASK GREG. Hilarious,but it ended happily. Everyone needs to read this ASK GREG. :)

I couldn't believe the whole Fox naked bit actually got aired. Obiviously you didn't see anything but it was being aired at 4/4:30pm where I live.Didn't expect that from a cartoon back in the day.

Troy, NY, USA
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 07:31:53 PM

Don't worry Todd, I'm sure things will pick up soon. Especially when Greg posts today's journal entry. Ah, the two week anniversary of our adventure to get from the Hotel Pennsylvania to LaGuardia Airport, being bedeviled by bad signs, bad directions, construction on 34th street, a car falling apart, getting lost in Queens, and a driver who began to panic while Greg kept a level head. But the story has a happy ending ;)

Seriously, it's going to be a fun entry. I look forward to seeing it ;)

Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 06:35:29 PM

Boy, it's definitely slow in here this week.

Saw my tape of "Eye of the Beholder" today. Nothing new to say about it, though, other than I got some appreciation for once again how efficient and resourceful Owen is. Always definitely there to help out Xanatos. He was a fascinating character even before we discovered his true nature in "The Gathering".

As Greg Weisman commented in his ramble, it's a bit of a surprise that they were able to get away with Fox naked.

Of course, everything else that you can say about it (the revelation that the Eye of Odin is magical, Elisa wearing the Belle ballgown, Xanatos and Fox getting engaged and Xanatos realizing how he feels about Fox) has been said before, so I suppose that this is going to be a very short review.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 06:23:47 PM

Ok, got around to finishing up my Gathering report:


And the pictures are here:


*goes to post the report in Ask Greg*

Shaun "BrooklynX"
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:30:21 AM

GXB - <I don't think she would have ever stepped down.> I was very sure about that. I was studying Demona more so when I asked the question "What would Demona do", I'd hear her answer the question in her own words.

Ok, hopefully within the next 2-3 days, I'll have an update to the point score ready.

Tuesday, July 15, 2003 01:18:04 AM

NOt for nothing but I can't wait for Tuesday's report. *evil grin*
Ethan Gilchrist - [Ethan@randominformation.com]
New York City, NY, USA
Monday, July 14, 2003 08:24:17 PM

Saw my tape of "The Silver Falcon" today. I still find myself wondering how many people, upon seeing it for the first time, felt a sense of deja vu upon finding out that Matt used to be a member of the FBI. (I can't remember now whether I started thinking of Mulder in relation to Matt after that or not then, unfortunately.)

One of the funniest bits for me (although you have to see the episode twice or at least know the ending in order to get it) is when Benton is describing "DD" in the photograph as a "sharp-looking fellow"; once you realize that Benton was really Dominic Dracon in disguise, that remark becomes quite amusing.

The scenes at the "Silver Falcon Building" still make me feel a little dizzy; I know that I wouldn't dare be up in a building that high - or at least, not out and standing on one of those falcon's heads. I'd be leaning against the wall and clinging to it, with my eyes tightly shut. (I'd have made a terrible gargoyle. I wonder how gargoyles who are afraid of heights would fare.)

Mace Malone's little joke on Dominic Dracon reminds me of a story that I once read in Herodotus. According to Herodotus, there was once a queen of ancient Babylon named Nitocris, who, when she died, had herself entombed over a major gateway of Babylon, with this inscription: "If any king of Babylon hereafter is short of money, let him open my tomb and take as much as he likes. But this must be done only in time of need. Whoever opens my tomb under any other circumstances will get no good of it." (Note: this and all other quotes in this passage are taken from the Penguin edition of Herodotus, translated by Aubrey de Selincourt.) King Darius of Persia, who ruled over Babylon (which had been conquered by Cyrus the Great and thus was now part of the Persian Empire) was interested when he learned about this, and so opened the tomb, but found no money inside. All that he found (alongside Nitocris's remains) was another inscription, which read "If you had not been insatiably greedy and eager to get money by the most despicable means, you would never have opened the tomb of the dead." I asked Greg Weisman about this once and he replied that the production team hadn't had that story in mind when they made "The Silver Falcon" and that the similarities must have been merely a coincidence. I still find it interesting, though. Obviously Nitocris and Mace Malone had a similar sense of humor.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, July 14, 2003 07:17:51 PM

The Gathering 2004: August 6-8, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

More details to be posted very soon, including hotel info.

Monday, July 14, 2003 07:08:58 PM

*Pops head ion. Reads Greg's post.*



I would, But I never went, so I can't...

QUESTION... When is "The Gathering" next year in Montreal? June? August?


Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, July 14, 2003 07:04:00 PM

Just passing along a note from Vic Cook to the fandom...

Thank you to all the Gargoyle fans for a great convention in New York.

G2003 Staff
Monday, July 14, 2003 04:35:19 PM

I am selling off my collection of gargoyle merchandise. Over 100 items. Will sell entire collection or by the piece. If interested email me.
mrs g. - [wholesaler274@aol.com]
nj, usa
Monday, July 14, 2003 03:37:10 PM

Hey G2003 staff and attendees,

Just stopping by with a plea that you all post your Gathering Diaries/Journals/Logs/etc. at ASK GREG. I'd like as many there as possible.

Ellen/Allaine/Kelly, I'm specifically looking at you, since I know you've written yours up already. But really, I'd love it if EVERYONE who attended the Gathering contributed. The more detail the better, but I'd even settle for "Wow, I had a great time."

This isn't an idle request. Journals and feedback could be very useful sales tools and help me to convince TPTB at Disney about the enthusiasm of the fandom.

Please cut and paste your journals directly into ASK GREG. No links.

Also, please spread the word to other garg-sites and other people you know who attended. It would really be great if we could get 100+ Gathering Journals on the site.

I'd really appreciate it.
Greg Weisman
Monday, July 14, 2003 02:56:14 PM


The 10th and last place in the name of love. And sloth. And the love of Sloths. And the sloth of love.
And lets make it in my name as well. Me, and Kubla Khan, and Bert and Ernie, claim this tenth best place; in the name of all of the above. And lets throw fear in there as well.

Oh yes and thanks to all yall well wishers concerning my near foot loss.


Lord Sloth
Monday, July 14, 2003 01:06:33 PM

9th !. Can I go back to bed now ?
Philly, Pa
Monday, July 14, 2003 08:53:31 AM

8TH in the name of love...
Monday, July 14, 2003 06:32:20 AM

Seventh in the name of... turkey?
Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL, USA
Monday, July 14, 2003 05:18:15 AM


Just because. :)

Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Monday, July 14, 2003 03:43:58 AM

Ah, fifth.
Monday, July 14, 2003 01:27:45 AM



Monday, July 14, 2003 12:38:04 AM

Monday, July 14, 2003 12:29:09 AM

Monday, July 14, 2003 12:11:24 AM

Monday, July 14, 2003 12:05:01 AM