Comments for the week ending September 29, 2003

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Happy birthday Greg. :) Hope you have a good one.

Well, tonight ToonDisney will air Future Tense and The Gathering part I.

Incidentally, someone asked about commercials for Gargoyles on ToonDisney, and so far they have been the usual ones for their "Chilling with the Villans" and Hanging with the Heroes".
Sahyinepu
Houston, Texas
Sunday, September 28, 2003 06:32:53 PM
IP: 64.221.9.87

To Greg W -- three items:

1) Happy birthday, and zillions upon zillions more.

2) May you and all your loved ones be inscribed in the Book of Life for another year -- and a great one, at that.

3) In light of the events at Wrigley Field yesterday, you may inform your Dad that he's buying -- and my guess is that he'll be more than happy to comply. (My husband and I were ready to head up to Milwaukee last night and buy a round or three ourselves for everyone on Water Street.)

Ellen
Chicago (north side)
Sunday, September 28, 2003 04:09:57 PM
IP: 205.188.209.12

Happy Birthday Greg, and I hope you had a pleasant Rosh Hashanah.

Did I hear somebody say ice cream? Good thing my cyberspace alter ego isn't lactose intolerant!
JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Sunday, September 28, 2003 03:22:55 PM
IP: 65.244.170.168

*Graymonk wheels in a big cart with dozens of buckets of Ice cream*
Cuz it just ain't a birthday without ice cream!
Happy Birthday Greg!
Graymonk
Sunday, September 28, 2003 02:39:26 PM
IP: 198.164.140.182

****A cake manifests itself on the table. One of the candles on it shoots forth a great gout of flame, which then takes on the form of Blaise.****

Happy Brithday Greg!

COMA-MAN> Re: Greg's fav present.
Well, I think Disney calling him up and saying they want him to come back and do all his "Gargoyles" shows would be pretty high on his list. ;)

WD-JAPAN> Crap, that's a downer. Count me as another one who thinks the higher ups at Disney are making a *big mistake*(tm) by phasing out hand drawn animation. I mean, I just cannot see a character like, say, Captain Amelia from "Treasure Planet" being done in CGI.
Ah, well. Give it a few years. Maybe another exec will come along and re-open WD-Japan. We can always hope.

Well, this is my last "day off" before I begin my job hunt (ugh...that's going to be the worst thing about this week--all those uncomfortable moments giving resumes and going on interviews...). I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. Until then, farewell. ****Blaise leaps into the air and dives right back into the candle flame.****
Blaise
Sunday, September 28, 2003 01:58:51 PM
IP: 209.178.160.63

Happy Birthday, Greg.

So, who's got the cake?

Also, what do you think is Greg's fave. present?
The Coma-man
Berlin, Deutschland
Sunday, September 28, 2003 01:41:48 PM
IP: 217.87.12.6

Happy Birthday Greg!


:::Promises to post more often in the future:::
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Sunday, September 28, 2003 01:19:13 PM
IP: 4.72.80.152

Happy Birthday Greg!

Don't do anything too crazy:)
Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Sunday, September 28, 2003 12:58:05 PM
IP: 128.113.163.49

HAPPY BIRTHDAY GREG!!!!

The Green> the Mayan Clan kicks @$$, thats all i gotta say about that...

:)
matt
Sunday, September 28, 2003 11:32:08 AM
IP: 207.230.48.6

Happy birthday, Greg Weisman!

Watched my tape of "The Green" last night. (I've been going more quickly through my "Gargoyles" tapes recently because the Hunter's Moon this year is on October 10 and I want to make certain that I can get to "Hunter's Moon" in time to watch it on that day.) I don't really have anything new to say about it (apart from the fact that the scene where Jackal fantasizes about remodeling Goliath's head is still one of the most disturbing moments in the series).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, September 28, 2003 07:14:29 AM
IP: 171.75.194.51

*sticks tongue out at Bud-Clare*

Happy birthday, Greg!
Vash
Sunday, September 28, 2003 02:57:46 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Happy Birthday Greg!

(Haha, I'm first...through sheer dumb luck. ;)
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Sunday, September 28, 2003 02:31:22 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Todd> i hadn't even thought of them seeing her as a human! they'd probably think she was a spy!
it would do her some good though to show up there as a human. let her feel what being persecuted for your species is. although, i guess if she hasn't figured it out from being a gargoyle and being on the outside she won't figure it out from being a human and being on the outside...
matt
Sunday, September 28, 2003 02:15:33 AM
IP: 207.230.48.133

Todd>> I can see it now...
(roll eyes)"Who let *this* suicidal, sado/masochistic b---- in?"
LOL!
JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Saturday, September 27, 2003 09:41:34 PM
IP: 65.244.170.168

MATT - I think that Demona would try getting the New Olympians' help to wage war on humanity. What would really be funny, though, would be if she made the mistake of showing up during the daytime....
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, September 27, 2003 08:01:16 PM
IP: 171.75.244.207

Question> ummm, gargoyles are not reptiles, they are Gargates. whether they branched off the reptile line as Birds and Mammals did is open to debate.

if you wanted my opinion which i'm sure alot of you don't, i'd say that gargates branched off the proto-mammals. the proto-mammals are the earliest mammals and were still very reptile-like. the closest thing we have to a proto-mammal today are the Montremes, the egg laying mammals. so, if i'm right, the closest living relatives of the gargates are the playpus and the two species of echidna.

sorry if i got too technical. i can't help it, i'm a biology/zoology major!
matt
Saturday, September 27, 2003 07:55:06 PM
IP: 216.178.8.55

Question >> IIRC Greg said that Gargoyles are not reptilian or mammalian, etc. However, such classifications are essentially arbitrary; classification depends on what characteristics the biologist deems important and such. Witness the controversy over how to classify reptiles, birds, and dinosaurs. With that in mind, one could argue that some biologists might put the gargates (Gargoyles and beasts) under mammals, some under reptiles, some under their own classification, and the like.

matt>> The dinosaur in question seems to have many characteristics in common with early primates, if I read Zarok correctly. Given similar evolutionary pressures, I do not see why humanoid-esque evolution would be unlikely.

Zarok>> About your suggestion: I don't think you should mention it in context of Gargoyles. Simply mention Dale Russell's theory as an FYI item. That way, it is not any sort of story idea. It is simply a report of a scientific hypothesis.

What, should *public* scientific inquiry be considered intellectual property?


* * *

And to think, I was going to ask the gang whether that thought young Katharine had ever liked Gargoyles at all (before the events in "Long Way to Morning", of course). Any thoughts?

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Saturday, September 27, 2003 07:51:00 PM
IP: 65.244.170.168

Zarok> I doubt they are another reptilian race like the gargoyles. I think it's more likely that the Lost Race are either not even part of the animal kingdom or an invertebrate species.
Question
Saturday, September 27, 2003 06:08:36 PM
IP: 144.92.164.204

Zarok> Interesting theory, but I doubt its plausibility, and I also doubt it's what Greg had in mind. He just isn't the paleantological/biological type in his source material. He generally draws from Sci-Fi, literature, and mythology.
And please don't ask Greg about it. It's a blatant story idea if I ever saw one.
Jimmy
Saturday, September 27, 2003 04:19:48 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

Zarok> "Dale Russell suggested that had Troodon survived the extinction of the dinosaurs it would have evolved into an intelligent humanoid creature that Russell has nicknamed a "dinosauroid"" if Russell said this (which i doubt) then hes an idiot. i've seen the model and while i suppose its possible its extremely unlikely. it is very difficult to guess the course of evolution, esspecially over a 65 million year time frame. certain trends will always tend to happen, but it is egotistical of humanity to say that if some animal evolves to a state of intelligence at our level then it'll look somewhat humanoid. *rolls eyes*
besides that, its an interesting hypothesis, but i doubt Greg is gonna give that sort of secret up very easily.
matt
Saturday, September 27, 2003 03:44:56 PM
IP: 207.230.48.74

HI you all know me as Zarok the guy whose always asking Greg about the Space-Spawn. I usually lurk here but I wish to bring to your attention a theory that may shed light on one of the more tantalising mysteries that have been raised at Ask Greg. As some of you already know Greg has mentioned the existence of an extinct "Lost Race" that predates Gargoyles, Humans and Oberon's Children. Having an interest in palaeontology I decided to see if I could find clues to the nature of these beings in the fossil record. Of course I never thought I find remains of a fictional species but perhaps Greg already had an idea as to what animal group he would assign the "Lost Race" and the more I thought about it the more I came to realise that except for mammals there is only one group of animals who had the opportunity to develop sentience and that group was obviously the dinosaurs. Before I go on I should make it clear that I mean dinosaur in the scientific sense of the word meaning the group of upright walking land reptiles that dominated the planet during the Mesozoic era in other words the flying, marine and mammal-like reptiles of the time don't count. Many species of small predatory dinosaurs showed signs of high levels, one such creature by the name of Troodon was probably as intelligent as an opossum and even had opposable thumbs. In 1981, palaeontologist Dale Russell suggested that had Troodon survived the extinction of the dinosaurs it would have evolved into an intelligent humanoid creature that Russell has nicknamed a "dinosauroid" (for anyone interested a model of this hypothetical creature can be found in the National Museum of Canada, in Ottowa.
But suppose Troodon was not the last word in dinosaur intellegence, suppose toward the end of the Age of Reptiles, something smarter developed, smart enough to develop language and technology only to be snuffed out along with 75% of all other life on Earth at the end of the Cretaceous.

Zarok
Saturday, September 27, 2003 03:26:57 PM
IP: 159.134.162.1

i've wondered what would happen if Demona had ever discovered New Olympus. (do we know if she ever has possibly?) i think she would fit right in with many of the locals views on humans, but at the same time i have a hard time seeing Demona wanting to live in a utopia without anyone to hate... i think she'd either find someone on the island to hate, try to get the island to declare war on humanity, or just leave cuz its all too peaceful for her. i dunno, Demona is such a complex person that its hard to know what she would do... i'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts.

sad day for me. my boyfriend and i have broken up after a year and a half :( it was a mutual thing and we are still friends, but it still is sad. i'll be ok!
matt
Saturday, September 27, 2003 10:57:41 AM
IP: 216.178.8.44

Watched my tape of "The New Olympians" today. One thing that I found myself thinking in the course of it was that Ekidne (the New Olympian who looked like a cross between a snake and a hag) seemed to be almost channelling Demona throughout, making some *very* Demona-ish remarks such as "Treacherous human!" Her eyes even glowed red at one point.

Proteus certainly came across as really evil, particularly where he was shape-shifting into Taurus's father as a way of annoying him (I liked the bit where they're fighting at the end and Proteus says, as he's about to finish Taurus off, "Like father, like son", briefly shifting into Taurus's form). Though at the same time, he evidently hadn't done his homework on gargoyles, considering the bit where he was telling Elisa while pretending to be Goliath that he wasn't turning to stone because of the effect of the New Olympians' cloaking device on the sun's rays. Since sunlight doesn't actually cause gargoyles to turn to stone (instead, it's their biological clock that does it), it wasn't a very good lie. No doubt that must have been one of the things that cued Elisa to him really being Proteus. (The fact that he was ready to blow up the island was obviously another - and maybe the "Who's that guy?" line, since we know that Goliath just doesn't talk like that.)

Another fun Proteus bit: when he's disguised as Taurus and overloading the controls, Talos points out to him that if he keeps on doing it, he's going to blow up the island, and Proteus promptly says, still in Taurus's form, "Now why would I want to do a thing like that?"

If you look closely, in the scene where Helios is making a big fuss about Elisa's "smell", you can see in the background a woman wearing blue clothing and carrying a bow. She has a certain look about her reminiscent of Artemis in Greek mythology (a rare instance of a New Olympian who actually resembles one of the Greek gods rather than one of the Greek monsters).

Of course, one thing that I recall that many of us would have agreed on about this episode: Demona would have no doubt thoroughly enjoyed seeing the sort of treatment that the New Olympians gave Elisa.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 26, 2003 07:44:47 PM
IP: 171.75.245.146

Hi all!
Well, Orkney was a blast - and got to see just about every major archaeological site on the mainland.
Had a look round several tombs that kinda reminded me of the Hound of Ulster ep.

matt> "i, for one, don't see how they could possibly gain significant weight in a few seconds, and so i believe that Angela as flesh is the same weight as Angela as 'stone'" - I seem to remember that Goliath had little problem moving the statues of his clan back to the castle turret in Awakening. I know he's strong, but he manages to shift Hudson into place with surprising ease.

Odin> Really liked this ep & just waiting for them to show it in this running of the series. Norse myths & legends play a huge part in local history & traditions. Up Helly Aa for one.

'Night!


Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Friday, September 26, 2003 04:38:32 PM
IP: 213.122.168.209

I believe Greg said their weights do not significantly change once they transform.
Jimmy
Friday, September 26, 2003 03:29:39 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

Nickerous> Glad I could be of service. Have you tried acking Canadians if any have commercials on old tapes for Gargoyles? I remember the Canadian Family Channel being reputed to have a bit more respect for the show; perhaps they had great commercials for it too. I do remember someone posting a German commercial a while back that looked really cool--with a scene zooming in on the Magus casting his spell, then scrolling up to reveal the castle under attack.
Vash
Friday, September 26, 2003 02:13:26 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Bad Animation> I agree that bad animation detracts from the overall enjoyment of the program, but (there's always a but), A really great story can cancel out that bad animation. Just like in comics. Bad art can detract from the enjoyment of the book, but an excellent story can keep the reader interested. The animation in City of Stone wasn't all that great imo, but, it remains my favorite story arc from the series.

dvd> been a little slack on my garg dvds. I've got the episodes for #4 ready, but haven't finished the design for it.

Vash> thanks for the tip about Nightmare Before Christmas. I knew there was one on that tape, but i thought I had it already.

Is anyone watching the toon disney airings right now? Have you noticed any new commercials for Gargoyles?
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
SC, USA
Friday, September 26, 2003 11:41:23 AM
IP: 66.220.76.136

Battle Beast> "And, don't you think someone would have see a car with two statues on its roof driving along? Aren't those statues pretty heavily? Would the car be able to drive eith that much weight on it?"
well, its still debateable whether gargs somehow weigh more when they are stone then when they are flesh. i, for one, don't see how they could possibly gain significant weight in a few seconds, and so i believe that Angela as flesh is the same weight as Angela as 'stone'. unless Greg says otherwise, i think this should be assumed...
matt
Friday, September 26, 2003 09:08:51 AM
IP: 216.178.8.56

Jimmy> Well, there's bad animation like you said. Bad animation continuity as well- which I've spotted in Disney stuff from various periods. But what I'm trying to say is that it's better to be unique, especially in the story you're telling. Visually it's even better... but it's not likely to be on a full feature budget anytime soon. If you've got something different or good or both, people will seek it out. I mean, some of the early Fleischer stuff is crude but there's a manic energy there.
Boba Fett
Friday, September 26, 2003 01:07:05 AM
IP: 205.188.209.12

I loved "Eye of the Storm." I read "Thor" comics all the time, and (at that time) I didn't know as much about Nors Mythos as I do now (which isn't a whole lot)... I was hoping to see Loki or something like that, but Ce la Vie.

Still a great ep. I love how the power of the eye gets to Goliath's head how he must make that sacrifice to save his daughter... In the end his better self prevails, but just barely.

I also like the little things, such as what Todd mentioned, and one other thing... Angela goes to get snow for water, knowing that they are going to be in the cave for a while.

And, don't you think someone would have see a car with two statues on its roof driving along? Aren't those statues pretty heavily? Would the car be able to drive eith that much weight on it?

(I can go on and on...)

Later~


Battle Beast
CanadaThursday, September 25, 2003 10:54:31 PM
IP: 142.59.145.149

Bobba> Bad animation really detracts from how well a story is told. If you don't believe me watch "Enter Macbeth." The animation was terrible and I was constantly distracted by the sudden changes in scale and jerkiness of it. Society at large wants the whole package to be good. Not just parts of it. One bad part can ruin thw whole thing.


Eye of Odin> There is one difference between the Eye and the one Ring. Sauron always had ultimate control of the one ring. It was taken away from him by force. Odin, however, gave his eye away. Once Goliath took it, he almost became strong enough to beat Odin himself. Imagine what would happen if someone more powerful got it.
Jimmy
Thursday, September 25, 2003 09:14:38 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

Mooncat> Ok, one person or a whole message board preferring good books for story is one thing but it doesn't apply to society at large. It's filmed entertainment- movies, tv, etc... Popular books end up as movies, etc.

Between having seen Sinbad and not thrilled with the set-up of Brother Bear... Here we all are, commenting on a tv-animated series-- hardly the same level of animation-- but it's the effort put in, the strong storytelling, VA work, etc. Yes, Atlantis is lovely and exciting but having everyone chatting about their backgrounds isn't engaging character development-- it's more like GI Joe filecards, colorful descriptions but not to be read out aloud during the story itself.
Boba Fett
Valencia, CA, USA
Thursday, September 25, 2003 08:55:17 PM
IP: 65.165.175.253

Bobba Fett [Let's face it- wouldn't you all prefer watching something well-written as opposed to well-drawn? Beautiful animated films are pretty much a dime a dozen.] -- well I think the key word there was *watching* -- if all I wanted was a good story and visuals be damned, then I'd read a good book. One of the major points of a visually expressed medium like animation is the artwork, otherwise why go beyond your book or an audio track? Good animation is both good story and good art to stand tall, because if only one of the two is strong, it's like a person with a crippled leg... lame.

I think 2D animation will always have an appreciative audience, and will never lose it's market. I can only hope there will be other companies to fill the vacuum left by Disney. We need more US animation studios/companies.

Wish I could win the super billionaire lottery and finance my own animation studio. *wishes really, really hard*

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Thursday, September 25, 2003 06:54:50 PM
IP: 68.102.0.23

Watched my tape of "Eye of the Storm" today. I really like this one as well, partly thanks to the fact that I'm a big Norse mythology fan as well as an Arthurian legend fan. (I don't know whether it has anything to do with my being of Norwegian descent, my paternal grandfather actually having been born in Norway.)

It would be interesting to know how many "Gargoyles" fans had suspected, before this episode came out, that the Eye of Odin was literally that. I know that I wasn't, which made Odin showing up and wanting his eye back a pleasant surprise.

One thing that I noticed in Goliath and Odin's big fight which I found kind of funny. It starts off with Odin hurling a lightning bolt at Goliath, who easily dodges it and comments "You'll have to do better than that, old man." Odin replies calmly, "We shall see." The lightning bolt bounces off the ground behind Goliath, comes flying back, and zaps him from the rear. (Well, I found it kind of funny.)

I recall that somebody once complained at "Ask Greg" that Odin wasn't shown carrying his spear Gungnir about with him. This time, however, I saw a couple of scenes which could be considered references to Odin's spear. When Odin first meets Goliath, Elisa, et al in his "old wanderer" disguise, he's leaning on a staff which doesn't appear elsewhere in the episode; could it be Gungnir in disguise? And when Goliath is fighting Odin, he at one point creates an energy spear and hurls it at Odin's shield. Since we know from Greg that Goliath's wearing the Eye had turned him into a sort of avatar of Odin, I wonder if the energy spear could also be some sort of reflection of Gungnir.

One thing that strikes me as a bit ironic is Odin's remark at the end about his being out of practice in dealing with mortals. The reason why it stands out to me is that, in the original Norse myths, Odin was the only one of the gods who did that much dealing with mortals in the first place; most of the gods interacted mainly with frost giants, dwarves, other fantasy creatures, and each other, rather than with humans (in contrast to all the meddling in human lives that the Greek gods did). It makes one suspect that it's a good thing that Goliath and Co. didn't run into any of the other Norse gods. (Although I do find myself wondering still how Goliath would have responded to Thor. On the one hand, Thor was a protector-figure; however, the fact that his favorite weapon was a hammer might make Goliath and his clan feel at least a little uneasy....)

I still find, by the way, a probably coincidental similarity between the Eye of Odin and the One Ring, particularly in the fact that Odin wanted his eye back for the same reason that Sauron wanted the Ring back; much of his power was in it, and so he had become weakened without it and needed it back to be restored to full strength. Not to mention that what happened to Goliath in the course of the episode gave me a pretty good idea of how the Ring might have corrupted someone if that someone had claimed it to use against Sauron.

There's a little animation nit in the scene where Elisa's talking to Goliath directly after he becomes "Odinized" and the sun comes up; while for most of it, she's wearing the sweater that the Sturlissons gave her, at one point she's wearing her familiar red jacket instead.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, September 25, 2003 06:46:38 PM
IP: 171.75.195.83

Not a bad scene. It may not be a ZAP "ow" ZAP "ow" from Enter Macbeth but that scene had potential for great animation. Speaking of which, sucks that Disney is cutting off its most talented individuals. Eisner may have been bold for his day, but it is time for new blood in Disney's management. He needs to go.

Ask Greg> I came up with a simples solution to the backlog problem. Put the question submition feature at the bottom of the queue and make a note that your question will be put on the end of list and Greg will get to it when he gets time. When people have to scroll through the whole thing (and wait for it to load) it will, at least, cut down on the frivolous questions that could have been answered here in the CR.
Jimmy
Thursday, September 25, 2003 03:18:39 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

The Disney-Shutdown:

Well, I have to admit that this isn't a surprise for me! Disney ALLWAYS was a corporation. They didn't wanted art, they wanted money, what allreaddy was the urge behind shutting of our beloved series...

With the 2D animation dying, we are the last to witness that art, that is soon dying out... and there are only 1 or 2 2D movies out, that are not lame... and this really gives me the itch. What will Disney do, when they realize this fault? Back in the 30's, when sound and collor was invented in films, it was a breakthrough, later everybody wanted to see them, so the first were hughe mega-sellers. The same with the 3D animation. In 10/20 years, the quality will fall down... what to expect then? Garg's again?
The Coma-man
Berlin, Deutschland
Thursday, September 25, 2003 10:05:28 AM
IP: 217.87.8.106

Sorry about that. (I had to be out for much of the evening, which was why I had to cut my "review" of "Pendragon" short.) Here's the piece from the script (where Arthur, Griff, Hudson, and the trio arrive at Brooklyn Botanical Gardens, after Lexington mentioned seeing it in a guidebook):

"Arthur, carried by Griff and Hudson, Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington land at the outer edge of an overgrown HEDGE MAZE. The full moon shines through a hole iin the weird cloudbank. The maze entrance is flanked by TOPIARY ANIMALS which, due to neglect, appear weird and frightening. There are ragged trees and a few dry fountains and cracked marble benches scattered about. There is a knee-high wrought-iron fence around the maze, more decorative in design than protective. A sign reads: CLOSED FOR RENOVATIONS. Lexington looks disappointed."

After which Brooklyn says to him "How old was that guidebook?"

That's the part that they cut out (presumably for time).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, September 25, 2003 06:37:10 AM
IP: 171.75.194.82

Ahh, how could you leave us hanging like that?
Jimmy
Wednesday, September 24, 2003 09:28:02 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

I'm sorry to hear about the increasing abandonment of 2-D animation at Disney too. For my own part, I suspect that Disney execs may be overlooking the fact that the 2-D movies that did poorly did so, not because they were 2-D, but because they didn't have good scripts, and the 3-D movies that did well did so, not because they were 3-D, but because they had good scripts.

Saw my tape of "Pendragon" this afternoon. I really like this one, although I'm the first to admit that I'm biased, because of my being a big King Arthur fan. I still think that it's a pity that Greg never got to make the "Pendragon" spin-off and (I know that I've said this before, but I'll say it again) it makes all the more a melancholy statement about animation that the horrendous "King Arthur and the Knights of Justice" got two full seasons.

One thing that I noticed this time that I hadn't before was that, when Griff introduces Arthur to Hudson and the trio, we immediately get a shot of Hudson and Broadway's response. I realized this time that it's appropriate that it'd be Hudson and Broadway, given their previous experience with Arthuriana (via the Scrolls of Merlin in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time"). I wonder now whether that was deliberate or not.

One of my favorite bits in it still is where we find out that Banquo and Fleance know who Macbeth really is. I thought that that was kind of fun, from the first time that I saw it.

Some of you may recall that I got a copy of the script from Greg after being able to guess correctly all eight Arthurian survivors; according to it, there was a little bit about the gargoyles and Arthur arriving at the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens that was, sadly, lost. Unfortunately, I'm running low on time here, so I'll post it tomorrow morning instead.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, September 24, 2003 07:06:55 PM
IP: 171.75.195.85

RE: 2D animation... Glen Keane came to my school a couple months ago and he mentioned 2 things of note. 1: When he first studied animation, the overall feeling was that the limited animation model on television was going to erase traditional 24 frames/second animation- but he found a group trying to bring that back at Disney. 2: He'd just talked to Eisner who wanted to make traditional animation work. (something I'd take with a grain of salt, but who knows?)

This summer, I saw model sheets from Dreamworks' Sharkslayer (think the name's been changed since). You cannot tell these apart from one for a 2D film... The thing that's changed is that the strong storytellers tend to be in 3D animation or television preproduction. But there's plenty of jobs in both for strong drawers. The Simpsons may be animated overseas, but the following are done in Burbank: character design/walk cycles/layouts/storyboards/reference drawings for things that the animators might not be familiar with.

Let's face it- wouldn't you all prefer watching something well-written as opposed to well-drawn? Beautiful animated films are pretty much a dime a dozen.
Boba Fett (i'm baaaaaaaaaack!)
Valencia, CA, USA
Wednesday, September 24, 2003 06:25:05 PM
IP: 65.165.175.253

Roy and Greg> OH NO!!! That's horrible!!! :(

Things aren't looking good for the studios in Florida either, I was speaking with the tour guide there, and he mentioned they were actually going to have a meeting about the future of the studio on Thursday.. :(

I'm sorry, 3D is great, but it doesn't have the personal 'feel' of 2d. I can't believe Eisner is doing this...

I'm really happy about all the anime coming in from Japan, I'm just..also bummed, because a lot of those animators have to have two jobs to pay bills, and companies just dubbing anime and putting it on the air is cheaper than hiring a studio of american animators..

*sigh*

I *STILL* don't care...I'm applying for animation school, and going to put foreward my very best! Hopefully it's just one of those animation cycling slumps.. -_-;; And who knows, Eisner's big mistake might cause another smaller company to shine in the spotlight, which I honestly wouldn't mind.
Siryn
Wednesday, September 24, 2003 12:56:32 PM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Edge> <<Don Hertzfeldt>>

GAH! I'm not the only one who has seen this man's brilliance?!?! I felt so alone in a world where no one knew who Don Hertzfeldt was :)

I think one can rest assured that Don Hertzfeldt will survive the 3D dominance; as underground as he is, I don't think he has any worries since he uses sub-par animation anyways. The lip-sync doesn't even match up with what is said in "rejected", haha! That's what makes him brilliant!

By the way, Tuesday's coming, did you bring your coat? ;)
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, September 24, 2003 12:20:10 PM
IP: 129.120.86.72

Demona Sleeping> years ago i had a thought that maybe Demona never needs to sleep cuz when shes a gargoyle her human side is sleeping and when she is a human her gargoyle side is sleeping. i think i asked Greg about this, and i think he said that wasn't how it worked, but i can't remember what he said... i dunno

Coyote X> we need to keep in mind that Coyote has changed alot since we last see him in the Gargoyles series. someone is upgrading him (is it Xanatos?) and that someone might be tinkering with his programming. doesn't the 2198 Proposal say something about him being rebooted?

2D vs 3D Animation> both have their strong points, but i've always loved 2D so much more. when i watch Lion King i am sooo impressed with what can be done with 2D animation, and 3D doesn't seem soo much better. 3D is kinda just a different style just like there are different styles of 2D animation and i don't think one should over power another. if Disney continues to pull away from 2D animation it'll be to their own disadvantage...
matt
Wednesday, September 24, 2003 09:18:52 AM
IP: 216.178.8.77

The news about Disney Japan is really disheartening, and shows the American animation industry's attitude toward the 2D animation medium. There are glimmers of hope, though--I was working at a TV station in Japan this summer and was fortunate enough to be given a tour of Studio Ghibli where Miyazaki is working on his next animated film. In Japan, the 2D medium is still going strong--and most projects which include 3D graphics make a very strong attempt to blend it with the 2D style so the effect is not jarring. This is of extreme importance at Studio Ghibli--to preserve that 2d quality--because it adds to the overall mood of the story--which is the most important goal of their films.

I feel that as more Japanese animated media filters into the US (Miyazaki winning the Academy Award is a good start,) it could possibly show the American animation industry the value (both creatively and economically) of 2D animation. I sure hope so. Even though it isn't an American tradition to look outside of the country for good ideas. :)
Zehra - [zfazal@wellesley.edu]
MA, USA
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:47:14 PM
IP: 149.130.207.115

Got confirmations from coworkers friends. Disney Japan will be history after June of next year.

Roy
Roy Sato
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:29:24 PM
IP: 168.215.231.54

*coming out of the woodwork...*

The problem with Disney is that, somewhere in the management, they are convinced that 2D animation is the past and that 3D animation is the future. Take Treasure Planet... when it tanked, did they blame it on the marketing (of which there was practically none)? On the competition (Harry Potter)? On the less-than-spectacular story? No, they blamed it on 2D animation, and said that in so many words. And yet when they have hits like Lilo & Stitch, they praise things like the clever story, the voice acting, the market conditions - but never the brilliant, distinctively 2D animation.

I'm disheartened by the closure of the Japan studio. I had hoped that another big hand-drawn hit would come along and Disney would wake up in time to realize how distinctive (and important) traditional animation is. Now I'm starting to think that everyone will be sacked before that happens. Pixar makes 3D hits with heart, but Disney is convinced that their magic is in the look... and when Pixar don't renew with Disney, I fear for what will happen at the mouse. With their recent budget shortfalls, I don't think they have the resources to create their own 3D studio while still providing complete support for their feature animation department. And if they have to choose between 2D and 3D, I think we all know which way they'll go.

I hope and pray that Mike Judge and Don Hertzfeldt and their fantastic Animation Show can revive 2D, before it gets relegated to the realm of low-quality direct-to-video Jungle Book sequels.

*...crawls dejectedly back into the woodwork*
Edge
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 09:01:14 PM
IP: 68.73.209.1

~~Sign!~~ I still have not gotten my stuff from the Gathering in NYC 2003.. I'm still waiting for them.. Please explan why I did not have my stuff.. Right now I'm still dealing with Dale (the guy that wanted to know why I have not gotten the stuff from the Gathering 2003) ... Right now I still felt used sence I can not be there at the gathering.. please emale me.. Have to go now ..
Margaret Demona May Stephens - [realdemona@yahoo.com]
The Place you do not wanted to live in.
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 08:11:11 PM
IP: 199.4.147.29

Sorry to hear about the Disney animation studio in Japan shutting down. Truly a sad moment.

I'd say that there's one crucial difference between Xanatos and Coyote-X; I doubt that Xanatos would ever set out to take over the world (or the galaxy). He'd most likely consider it melodramatic and unnecessary; after all, he's been able to achieve most of his goals under the current status quo, so why change things? (Greg Weisman pointed this out in the Gargoyles Season One Bible.)

Watched my tape of "Mark of the Panther" today. I'm not as familiar with Anansi the spider as I am with some of the other mythical figures that they included in the series, but one aspect of him in traditional legend did get in; the way that his schemes tend to wind up backfiring on him. This was a recurring theme (from what I've read about him) in the original Anansi legends, where he'd wind up getting outsmarted by the end of the story, and the same thing happens in "Mark of the Panther". First, in the Panther Queen story, when he banishes everybody from Karadigi, and then realizes too late that he's just sent away his entire hunting force, and then in the present, when he gorges himself so much on the food that Fara Maku brought him that he's too ungainly and massive to fight the gargoyles on the ground and so gets beaten.

Quite a fun episode, especially when the animation style changed for the Panther Queen story. Other highlights include Diane Maza telling Goliath at Karadigi that she can look after herself (a lot of the fun of the scene is in how she says it), Elisa nicknaming Anansi "Spiderman", and Anansi frantically offering the protagonists lots of wishes when they're winning.

By the way, this episode fits in with a remark of Greg's at "Ask Greg" about how mothers generally get left out of Disney animated movies like "The Little Mermaid" because they'd simply step in and solve the problem like that. And that's just what Diane Maza does; she talks to Goliath and persuades him to acknowledge Angela as his daughter, solving that problem.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 07:01:57 PM
IP: 171.75.194.6

Hey Greg, long time. Apologies, I've been away from this site for a long time. I just read the news myself and decided to visit to see if it had reached s8.

While I haven't confirmed it with my friends who are still there(at Disney Japan), I was hearing stories about cutbacks, layoffs and general unstability of 2D jobs at Disney in general. I swung by the studio last year and at the time, it didn't really show any signs of having problems. They were busy with 101 Dalmations II and a lot of the original crew from the Garg series were still onboard. In fact, just a few years earlier, they had moved into a larger facility complete with its own 3D division. Unfortunately, contracts at Disney were very strict. Most of us couldn't work on outside jobs even if we wanted to. Disney's projects were solely my friends' bread and butter. This shutdown will leave many former comrads struggling in an already tight market. It will be a very sad day when those doors at Disney Japan finally shut.

Anyway, I'm awaiting email from the Disney guys to get the news straight from them. I'll post updates if there are any.

Roy
Roy Sato
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 04:52:02 PM
IP: 168.215.231.54

It's true. I just read it in the Hollywood Reporter. Disney is closing down what was formerly known as Walt Disney Television Animation Japan. This is so depressing. Bad enough, that they rarely allowed that studio's high quality work on television eps anymore. At least I could console myself with the notion that those talented people were working on higher prestige properties. Better for them, if not for me.

But to shut it down...

I'm bummed.

Roy, are you still out there? Do you still know anyone there? Do you know what the reaction is?
Greg Weisman
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 04:05:47 PM
IP: 66.81.252.215

Here is the URL I mentioned:
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/vinge/vinge-sing.html
(Or click on my name)

I also recall a conversation with a computer science professor concerning machine learning. Apparently, there is serious discussion in the machine learning community about the threat of superior AI overwhelming humanity, and what can be done to prevent/delay such a tragedy.

Blaze>>" And due to his tie to the past (and robots) I kind of figure that Brooklyn, and the LX robots will have the most interaction with him. "
I am having a little trouble parsing this, Blaze. (Don't worry, it happens to me quite a bit.) Are you saying that Coyote will interact more with Brooklyn, due to the robot's "tie to the past", and the LXM robots, due to their common artificial nature, than with the other characters?
JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 03:54:54 PM
IP: 65.244.170.168

****Blaise wanders in, scanning the classifieds section on a newspaper. Only when he bumps into the table does he bother to look up and notice his present location.**** Oh! Hi all. I just got laid-off this morning, and I'm still partially getting over the shock and anxiety attacks. But, on the plus side, I'm paid until the end of the week, and that give me free time to look for new jobs (hopefully in the entertainment industry this time), and chat in here.

TODD> Have you ever heard of the old Infocom game "A Mind Forever Voyaging"? It's a very interesting concept--you play a computer. Or specifically, a program called PRISM, that spent it's "life" in a specially created simulation wherein it was a human named Perry Simm. The back story is all fleshed out in the instruction booklet, but basically, scientists created a true "sentient" AI by having the program grow and learn as a human (kind of like "The Matrix" only the guy finds out he's just a machine).

HUDSON'S SNOOZING> Check THE EDGE, when Elisa first enters the Clocktower with the TV. I'm pretty sure there's a shot of Hudson on the beat-up recliner with his eyes closed and his breathing deep. It couldn't have been that deep of a sleep, though, since he's up just a few minutes later.

COYOTE X> I have to admit of all the villains in G 2198, CX intrigues me the most. Maybe because he strikes me as an echo of Xanatos--I like that sort of "ghost from the past" concept here. And due to his tie to the past (and robots) I kind of figure that Brooklyn, and the LX robots will have the most interaction with him.
(Heck, the interaction between Brooklyn and these two robots that bare such a striking resemblence to his brother is something I'd like to see, too.)

Well, I'm done for now--got to get back to (looking for) work. You can be sure I'll let you all know about the happenings in my life (whether you want to hear them or not ;)). Until then, farewell. ****Blaise pops a few cookies into his mouth, and dives right into one of the classifieds in his newspaper. The newspaper then promptly winks out of existance.****
Blaise
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 03:41:47 PM
IP: 209.179.251.213

Demona sleeping> I suppose if she was really, really tired, she could allow herself to nod off for a second or two (or maybe an hour), but I really think that nodding off and sleepiness would be something Demona resents. She saw her stone sleep as a weakness, I'm sure she sees this as an even bigger weakness (probably because it is largely a non-gargoyle trait). She's probably too proud to admit she sleeps or too even attempt it.
Matt> I can't recall Hudson ever napping, sure it wasn't a TGC episode? Even if he did, he is old and old people, or rather people older than me, do tend to doze off when not stimulated i.e. when they get bored. Even if gargoyles do nap, I doubt it's a matter of Demona 'training' herself to sleep, but rather of whether she'd allow herself to do something like that. Of course she'd have to succumb to the effects of sleep, without that essential 5-8 hour stone sleep, she must feel shattered.

Faieq
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 01:20:53 PM
IP: 212.159.30.247

Greetings all...

Just FYI, the deadline for submissions for the Winter Issue of AVALON MISTS is coming OCTOBER 15th. If you have fanfics, fan art, or even just suggestions or tidbits to share, please send them in to be included in the next issue.

Our featured articles will be dealing with Gargoyle RPGs and other games inspired by the series, Gargoyle Tattoos (who's got them, and how do you get them?), An new character Indepth, and our other regular articles and themed pieces.

Plues we're still accepting entries into our Fan Contests (which we are extending to allow everyone a chance to get involved). We're running conests on Gathering photos, poetry and limericks that follow the "Coming Seasons" theme, a general art and photo contests, and our main "Back to School" contest: the winner of which will be awarded a prize!

We've had a great response to the first issue, but we won't be able to do this without your support. Send in your fanfics and art, send us suggestions and comments. We're waiting to hear from you! Everything can be sent to either me (at my address below) or to Siryn.

Thanks for your time and attention... Remember, the deadline is OCTOBER 15th!

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [ssobotka33616_AT_yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:27:39 AM
IP: 24.164.29.133

Matt- That's way it would be funny.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:59:44 AM
IP: 132.170.41.246

I see the problem as that future-coyote is simply following its programing.
From the episodes with coyote 1-5?, I get the feeling, it was programmed to "act like Xanatos, but obey his commands". Therefore it was meglomaniacial, like Xanatos. The difference is that Xanatos eventually changed his behavior... sort of...., but coyote, as a machine didn't change over the centuries, so he's still acting like pre-The Gathering Xanatos.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:57:27 AM
IP: 132.170.41.246

sleeping gargoyles> yes, Bronx has slept in the series and in one episode, i can't remember which, i clearly remember seeing Hudson napping in his chair in the Clocktower. so i don't think Demona would have too much trouble with the concept, but the application of having to sleep for 8 hours or so each day would probably be extremely difficult for her.
matt
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:57:25 AM
IP: 216.178.8.58

Todd. I may be able to show at elast one reason why a logic based entity may aquire something that on the surface woud appear to be emotions.

I have Autism, and as with anyone with autism, my desire and abillity to understand normal human things such as facial expressions, body language, mannerisms and even more so, display and show ability to understand any of these things was non existant as a child. What rocked my world was data, and a basic learning program I gave myself very early on which gave me the drive to learn rather than just sit there for hours on end...which I still have absolutely no problem with(doing nothing for hours on end that is). I took in all data, and related it to previous data for simmilarities, and created chains, or perhaps best described as webs, of data. Emotions and other alien human behaviors were data as well. As the programs ran smoother, I was, and am more able to radiate what appears to most people as a grasp of emotions and personallity and such..I even make perfect eye contact now, and no longer speak monotone(and let me clarify, I only say what appears to be an understnading simply cause I do not feeel it is necessary for my own existance to run any of these behaviors, it is just that running them makes life on planet earth with humans more easy). But, what makes me still austistic is I have absolutely no desire to maintain any of the actions except that it makes it easier to function in society...simply cause human are too stupid/lazy to learn my own language...which incidentlally was pure logic. So based on this, and what few other austistic people who function well in society say, it is evident to me that an AI may do the same thing...just as a part of lerning...plus, it is fun for a logic based entity to take on outside functions and make them their own..this is learning...but for most people, learning is restricted to a trade, or history or something...for us(autistic people), human behavior itself is learning..and there is nothing more fun than seeing what sort of a job you are doing by applying what you have learned. heheh
Sahyinepu
Houston, TX
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:38:04 AM
IP: 64.221.8.195

Well, the problem that I have with an artificial intelligence such as a computer or a robot wanting to take over the world is that such a goal arises from emotions (greed, power-hunger, etc.) rather than from logic and reason. And I have a difficult time believing that anything with an artificial intelligence would ever actually develop such emotions. The most likely way that a computer would set out to take over the world, in my opinion, would be if a human programmed it to and it was merely obeying its programmer's dictates (that, or it had, like the Matrix, misinterpreted its instructions).

Although I'm not an expert on artificial intelligence and advanced technology anyway (history, literature, and legend is my strong point rather than the sciences), so I admit that I could be wrong here.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 07:36:25 AM
IP: 171.75.194.85

"Anyone mind if I drop the (T)? I only have it in there to remind people that I am the same JJ T who was. . ."
-Honestly, I never even noticed the T. I stop reading after JJ.

Demona learning> I think Gargoyles do nap during the nights too. I've noticed Bronx doing it a few times I think. But even if Bronx did, it could also be a trait unique to Garg Beasts. Who knows.
Jimmy
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 01:35:41 AM
IP: 208.37.196.232

Just a funny thought I had the other day...... Demona LEARNING to SLEEP. If she doesn't turn to stone during the day, she must sleep human-style sometime (and I did check ASk Greg, he said she sleeps during the day). But since Gargoyles don't just get tired and sleep, she wouldn't know what to do.
So she'd have to learn! And must have been terribly funny, too. Someone should write it into some fanfic. Maybe I'll do it for Av Mists.......
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Olrando, FL
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 01:30:17 AM
IP: 132.170.41.246

Todd> ah...thanks :) had just never heard about it before. I'll consult the archives for further info
Void
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 12:04:27 AM
IP: 68.88.35.247

Figured I might as well drop the quotes around "Gregarius." Anyone mind if I drop the (T)? I only have it in there to remind people that I am the same JJ T who was theorizing about how Christianity would have affected Angela.

Anyway Re: AI
Todd >> first, I think the "order out of chaos" bit is a reference to an old Star Trek episode(whose name elludes(sp) me at the moment) featuring a robot probe named Nomad.

Also, I recall that in your posts to "Ask Greg" you have problems with a comptuer system "evolving" as Coyote had done by G. 2198. I propose to you that such a system, one that can learn and "rewire" itself on the fly, is the goal of the field of artifical intelligence. While we haven't achieved this yet, techniques such as neural networks may one day afford artifical computing systems the same flexiblity that "natural" computing systems (such as our brains!) enjoy. However, the artifical systems will be made of much faster and more reliable components than the neurons that compose our brains. It would be an era unfathomable to us, an era ruled by intelligences that make our greatest minds seem like dogs and cats.

In short, the "villian" I fear the most in G. 2198 is Coyote.

More importantly, in reality I fear someone in the next few centuries creating a device akin to Skynet of the _Terminator_, or the Master Control Program of _Tron_.

Or maybe not. AI is perhaps the wildest part of computer science, if you even consider AI as part of computer science.

I have a URL to post concerning this, but I don't have it on this computer.
JJ Gregarius (T)
Orlando, FL
Monday, September 22, 2003 10:55:31 PM
IP: 65.247.200.135

........................I think "Walkabout" was the episode where my friend told me that he thought Anastasia and Titania were one and the same. Not just the fact that they were both voiced by Kate Mulgrew... but when Goliath said 'Thank you,' she said, 'Just returning the favor,' from when he helped Tiania on Avalon. It seemed to fit together.

BTW, did Greg want to make it obvious that they were the same by using K Mulgrew twice? He didn't do that for Owen.

Vin
castle0909
Monday, September 22, 2003 10:17:44 PM
IP: 152.163.252.100

VOID - Gargoyles 2198 was a sort of sequel-series that Greg Weisman had dreamed up for "Gargoyles" that would take place a couple of centuries into the future, in which the Space-Spawn (the aliens whom Nokkar was at war with) take over Earth and a small group of gargoyles and humans are trying to drive them out. You can get the details in the "Gargoyles 2198" section of the archives at "Ask Greg".

And as for when it's coming out - alas, so far Greg hasn't been able to persuade Disney to make it. All that it is is a series idea at present.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, September 22, 2003 07:20:26 PM
IP: 171.75.194.83

Todd> what is gargoyles 2198 and when is it supposed to come out?

Personally, i've always liked Dingo, even when he was a member of the pack, he seemed like he wasn't really a part, at least as far as not being of the same mentality. Yes, he was technically a bad guy, but he seemed a bad guy with honor, and a bit of style, even maintaining that when he decided not to corrupt himself with robotics and genetics. I felt it was a good follow up, and a reasonable step for him to move more actively into the hero role in "walkabout"
Void
St. Louis, MO
Monday, September 22, 2003 07:12:25 PM
IP: 68.88.35.247

Well, there aren't any new answers at "Ask Greg" today, so I suppose that Greg's away again. Pity.

Watched my tape of "Walkabout" this afternoon. One thing that I like about it is that it gives a credible motivation to the old "machine out to take over the world"; the reason why the Matrix is threatening the entire planet with a nanotechnological transformation is that it was designed to "create order out of chaos" and it sees that transformation as the means of achieving that goal, without apparently being aware of the consequences that such a transformation would have upon all life on the planet. (In fact, the Matrix might not even have been aware of organic life-forms, or at least, not aware of them in the same way that we are; given that it's a "hive-mind artificial intelligence", who can be certain as to how it views the world?) Much more convincing than the typical "robot or computer that thinks like a human megalomaniacal tyrant in a mechanical body" (although there's Coyote-X in the projected "Gargoyles 2198" spin-off to consider).

Some other memorable bits, such as Dingo returning and clearly wanting to be a hero now (continuing nicely from his role in "Upgrade"), Fox back and now visibly pregnant, and Anastasia being introduced (not to mention Goliath figuring out from this that Fox is Renard's daughter). Two bits that I especially find fun are when Dingo and Elisa have the gargoyles hide before approaching the shaman, who promptly asks them to have their friends come out, and the bit at the beginning where Bronx starts growling angrily at the kangaroo. (So what does he have against kangaroos, anyway?)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, September 22, 2003 06:52:36 PM
IP: 171.75.194.83

I traced it back to here...

http://www.animationnation.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006546

...don't know if that's where it started. I haven't heard it anywhere else (that didn't get their info from them, of course.)
Calluna - [calluna21@yahoo.com]
Monday, September 22, 2003 04:54:31 PM
IP: 147.134.47.34

Someone's got to say something worthwhile today, so I guess it might as well be me.

I just heard that Disney Animation Japan is shutting down. They animated some of the best-looking Gargoyles episodes and have done a lot of great animation for other shows and movies.

Apparently, after they're finished with "The Heffalump Movie" (starring Winnie the Pooh), it's sayonara.

This may just be a rumor, however. Can anyone verify this?


Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
Monday, September 22, 2003 03:59:37 PM
IP: 134.215.241.147

Can I join?
11
(Can't remember what color I was last time! So I'll just guess.)
Faieq
Monday, September 22, 2003 03:30:15 PM
IP: 212.159.30.247

10!
Graymonk
Monday, September 22, 2003 07:11:18 AM
IP: 198.164.140.200

Nine.
Jimmy
Monday, September 22, 2003 04:31:55 AM
IP: 199.74.79.167

8th? *L*
Void
Monday, September 22, 2003 01:28:08 AM
IP: 68.88.35.247

Seventh, in the name of newbies! ;)
Calluna - [calluna21@yahoo.com]
Monday, September 22, 2003 01:21:06 AM
IP: 147.134.47.214

6th... bad night... :(
matt
Monday, September 22, 2003 01:15:07 AM
IP: 207.230.48.106

to play or ot to play...Play! fifth! :)
Sahyinepu
Houston , TX
Monday, September 22, 2003 12:28:31 AM
IP: 64.221.10.171

4th, although knowing exactly when the room will wipe kinda takes the fun out of it.
Fire Storm
Monday, September 22, 2003 12:24:49 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

3
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Monday, September 22, 2003 12:09:08 AM
IP: 132.170.42.183

........................2nd. Congrats Wingless, you beat me to it.

Vin
castle0909
Monday, September 22, 2003 12:02:20 AM
IP: 152.163.252.100

Attempting to be first. mind you, you've all been so quick on the draw lately. Im getting too old to keep up.
Wingless
Monday, September 22, 2003 12:00:07 AM
IP: 24.102.127.129