Comments for the week ending June 21, 2004

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If it wasn't for my financial situation, I'd be going. They better tape the costume ball and put it on the DVD!

Siryn>I'm gonna buy a pin, maybe a t-shirt, as soon as my financial situation is dewrinkled. In a week or so :P
Siren
Sunday, June 20, 2004 07:35:46 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

What about those of us who have been to all but 1? ;_;
(And the only reason I couldn't go was because I was underage and my parent's wouldn't let me!!!)

hehe. Seriously. Come to the gathering. Or donate a buck or two. Help us out! :D
Siryn
Sunday, June 20, 2004 04:50:31 PM
IP: 68.54.148.183

::pokes her head in and sneezes at all the dust that has accumulated on her door into the comment room::

Yes, I'm still alive.

I got a bit nostagic for this place and all things Gargoyles when I started catching the show on ToonDisney. (My ability to guess the episode from the "Previously on Gargoyles..." bits annoys my boyfriend. But he found me an Ice Storm Brooklyn a few months ago and has promised to customize it into something more show accurate and less cookies-and-cream, so I don't mind.) Unfortunately, our summer getaway has already been planned, so as usual, I won't be at the Gathering. But I am extremely psyched for the DVD release. A lot of friends and relations who /i think will enjoy it will probably recieve copies as gifts.

This is kind of a spur of the moment post, so I don't know how often I'll be checking back. But it's nice to see some familiar faces still here. Hope everyone is well.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye@aol.com]
Sunday, June 20, 2004 03:07:41 PM
IP: 209.150.45.114

I think Spiritwolf and any of the other con go-ers who have actually been to every single Gathering should automatically get camera time :D
IRC Goliath - [goliath1@pacbell.net]
Sunday, June 20, 2004 02:13:56 PM
IP: 67.182.21.30

Todd>Oh, blame that Olympus on my own typo. I didn't even remember they did screw that up in TGC. And thanks for explaining about the New Olympians for me.
Siren
Sunday, June 20, 2004 01:09:56 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

First off, it's New Olympus, not New Olympia. "New Olympia" was just a Goliath Chronicles goof-up.

And Greg Weisman did specifically say that the New Olympians were descended from past unions of Oberon's Children with mortals; you can find it in the "New Olympians" section of the archives at "Ask Greg".
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, June 20, 2004 06:49:54 AM
IP: 4.244.12.195

I must beg you to ignore the typos. It can be difficult to make posts in Lynx.
JJ Gregarius
Tampa , FL
Saturday, June 19, 2004 11:13:54 PM
IP: 4.247.155.218

I think Paul may be refering to cases where prolific reporcuders ahve managed to spread their genes through an entire region. If you have 100 children, being of unusual, um, stamina, and preople in your culture have five surviving children on the avergage, you will have 500 grandchilren, 2500 great-grandchilren, 12,500 great-great-grandchildren, 62,600... let's just say the number increasing geometrically with each generation until a sizable portion of your civilization have your genes.
For instance, IIRC many, many people in China are decendents of Ghengis Khan (sp?).
Given the long lives and long histories of the Fey, there may be an amazing number of people with Fey ancestry and some *small* Fey ability.
(This of course assumes that there were Fey with such voracious appetites!)
JJ Gregarius
Tampa , FL
Saturday, June 19, 2004 11:11:47 PM
IP: 4.247.155.218

As far as I know, the New Olympians are a seperate race. Originally, the gargoyles knew of only three races. Gargoyles, Humanes, and Fay. Only with the skiff and magic of Avalon was New Olympia ever discovered. I don't know if they can mate with humans and gargoyles, though I'm sure it could be possible. So many Greek legends have their gods, goddess, and everything in between having children with humans. Many species of New Olympians might very well have human in them.
Siren
Saturday, June 19, 2004 11:08:15 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

[given the New Olympians, Fox and even Merlin, we know that the Fay sowed a lot of wild-oats with humans, and probably a few gargoyles, over the eons]

Uh, Fox and Merlin are the only half-breeds that we've seen in the show- and both are descended from royal fae. There's a chance that only those of the royal bloodline can even produce viable offspring with humans, and an equal probability that the fae can't breed with the gargoyle race at all.

And there is nothing that says that the New Olympians are the *offspring* of the fae- or none that I've seen but it is possible that there is something that says otherwise buried in the Ask Greg archives. (anyone wanna go check for me?) They come across as more as either an experiment or an accident with magic.
Lynati
Saturday, June 19, 2004 10:55:08 PM
IP: 66.142.229.204

<< Probably almost every human in the Gargoyles' Universe has some Fay blood in them >> -- All six billion humans on the planet? Doubtful. Not even if Oberon and Titania had the libidos of Bill Clinton and Paris Hilton could they accomplish that. And Puck, well... I think his take on it would go something like this...

Puck: Do you have a little fay in you?
Elisa: No...
Puck: Would you like to?

48 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!
Patrick
Saturday, June 19, 2004 10:37:28 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Siren, but a mutant style situation would not be that hard, given the New Olympians, Fox and even Merlin, we know that the Fay sowed a lot of wild-oats with humans, and probably a few gargoyles, over the eons. Probably almost every human in the Gargoyles' Universe has some Fay blood in them, all it would take is a mad-scientist, like Dr. Sevarius, to tap the power of those Fay genes. ;D
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Saturday, June 19, 2004 09:01:14 PM
IP: 68.220.46.34

I know. Greg would kick me in the arse for comparing it to Batman. But I'm not comparing them for the same reasons others might. Daredevil and Spawn are 2 other dark and brooding superheros. Gargoyles isn't as dark as the, they have their share of light and humourous moments, but compared to the rest of the Disney Afternoon, it wasn't since Black Cauldron did Disney ever venture into that type of animation and story. I still like Batman, but I like Gargoyles 100 times better then Batman. If Gargoyles could be compared to any other superhero storyline, it would most likely be X-Men though. The whole idea of prejudice is so ingrain in both.
Siren
Saturday, June 19, 2004 07:39:31 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

Yes, there are a lot of major differences between "Batman" and "Gargoyles". For one thing, the gargoyles' New York is a lot less grim and bleak than Batman's Gotham City. The gargs have lives outside of crime-fighting; Batman doesn't. Goliath fights crime because of his philosophy about "gargoyles protect"; Batman fights crime because his parents were murdered by criminals in front of him when he was a boy.

In fact, the characters in "Gargoyles" who were most strongly modeled on Batman (as has been mentioned a few times before) are the clan's enemies: Xanatos (who's very wealthy like Bruce Wayne, and whose red gargoyle armor could be the equivalent of Bruce Wayne's bat-suit; he even has Owen where Batman has Alfred), Macbeth (who uses the same modus operandi of high-tech equipment and good fighting skills), and the Hunters (who have the double identity and, in the Canmore trio's case, the psychological impact of a parent's death in front of them when they were kids).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, June 19, 2004 06:54:09 PM
IP: 4.244.12.80

Now I am REALLY pissed off that I can't go to the Big G.

****SIGH****

That is all I will say.
Battle Beast
CANADASaturday, June 19, 2004 06:03:55 PM
IP: 142.59.132.116

Just thought I'd pop-in to mention how funny it is that Gargoyles is being compared to Batman (on some level) as Greg has said that's exactly what he and his team were trying to avoid when making it.

From his "Awakening, pt. 2" ramble:
"There's an intentional this-ain't-Batman moment during the fight with the Commandos. Goliath gets tossed off the building. He's falling and he grabs for a flagpole, just like Batman would. But Goliath is so heavy, he rips the flagpole right off the building, and he has to use his claws to save himself. Back in those days, everyone was terrified that GARGOYLES was going to be perceived as a BATMAN rip-off. I actually had to write up a memo for the Marketing Department, listing all the significant ways the shows were different. This flagpole bit was our (me, Frank, Michael's) conscious reaction to the constant comparisons."

Anyway, that was very exciting news about the film crew - all the more reason I'm glad to be going (pinching every dollar).
Alex Garg - [alex_garg@yahoo.com]
VA, USA
Saturday, June 19, 2004 05:42:39 PM
IP: 138.88.81.39

Was going to mention "Cowboy Bebop."

Too bad I can't justify going to Montreal this fall financially.
JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Saturday, June 19, 2004 05:30:33 PM
IP: 4.247.182.34

Lily, well CN has been known to bring shows back from the grave, for example, Big O and Family Guy.

Siren, actually, the anime they show on the block is fairly dark with shows ranging from action to brooding.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Saturday, June 19, 2004 03:26:05 PM
IP: 68.220.46.34

Adult Swim is a little more... strange. Not the scene for Gargoyles, like Siren says. More like a Batman type cartoon.

Had a funny thought last night while watching Tombstone. A gargoyle Wyatt and Doc Holiday. *Soft smile* Unique....
Lily Doll
Saturday, June 19, 2004 03:04:56 PM
IP: 67.35.196.193

I thought Adult Swim was more comedy adult cartoon shows. Gargoyles is a little more brooding. More like Batman.
Siren
Saturday, June 19, 2004 01:40:15 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

*pokes head in*

This means I HAVE to get my Banshee costume done this year, doesn't it? :)

*ducks out back to RL insanity*
Mandolin
Saturday, June 19, 2004 11:25:32 AM
IP: 68.55.87.89

Well, James, if only there was some way to get Gargoyles Season 1 and 2 to air uncut on CN's Adult Swim, along with the DVD Boxsets releases, then I would say chances would be much better...
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Saturday, June 19, 2004 10:05:46 AM
IP: 68.220.46.34

Hope they get my good side. :) Really, this great news and a sign that Disney might just be taking us seriously. I'm giving a little nondenominational prayer that if we sell enough discs they might just restart production. I know it's a pie in sky hope, but there's always "Family Guy" to point to.
james_anatidae - [james_anatidae@yahoo.com]
Brevard, NC, USA
Saturday, June 19, 2004 12:34:50 AM
IP: 207.144.84.202

Brooklyn's Intonation>> Todd, in Awakenings I thought that the rising, questioning (almost begging!) intonation Brooklyn used when talking with Mary was a bit unusual. I've never heard Brook talk like that in other eps, even when he's being tender or gentle. To my ear, it makes the garg sound younger than the rest of the series implies.
Reawakenings>> Remember the "I don't remember any explosions in Bambi" line? A Disney nut once reminded me that there *are* explosions in that movie -- from the hunter's firearm!
JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Saturday, June 19, 2004 12:15:18 AM
IP: 4.247.137.118

Watched my tape of "Re-Awakening" today. A really good way of ending the first season.

Highlights of it: The scene where Xanatos and Demona revive Coldstone in the "Frankenstein"-parody sequence (complete with Xanatos's "It's alive! It's alive! I've always wanted to say that.").

Demona introducing Xanatos to Coldstone as "my servant" - whereupon Xanatos gives her a dirty look.

Goliath brooding in the clock tower about how the clan no longer has a purpose, and taking a strong interest in Elisa's police work, especially after hearing the "Protect and serve" motto from her.

The Mr. Jaffe sequence. (I like the touch about Matt being fond of the guy and wishing that he could do a better job of protecting him. We get to see more about Matt and Mr. Jaffe as friends in "Protection", of course.)

The trio watching "Bambi" ("Boy, this surround-sound really is great").

Coldstone's horror over his condition, especially when that laser-gun mounted in his arm goes off for the first time and he's staring at it in shock.

The big fight at the George Washington Bridge.

The clan rediscovering their purpose, and vowing to protect Manhattan. An especially great touch is Goliath harking back to "Awakening" by saying to Elisa, "I need a detective."

And Mr. Jaffe's annoyed response to the robber, "Not again! Can't you find somebody else to rob?" Typical New York attitude in being more fed-up than frightened of the guy. :)

One possible nit: anybody else notice how Xanatos and Demona get from the castle to Times Square in record time?

As I said before, this is a great way of ending the first season. But we've still got 52 more episodes to go (53 if you count "The Journey").
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, June 18, 2004 07:33:49 PM
IP: 4.244.12.161

Lily>It's a well known fact in Hollywood that almost nothing is finished till the last week before the release date. Many movies and DVD releases are finished right before being put out for the public.
Siren
Friday, June 18, 2004 06:09:08 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

That would have been cool. I should think about going and bringing my son, Talon, along. *And yes, his real name IS Talon.*

I'd buy a dvd just on the fact that some of you may be in it. It'll be nice to see the Gathering as I've never been to one yet.

Todd> I thought the episode you mentioned was a filler episode. It fills you in on a lot of information that will be needed as late as the very next episode. Not that every episode doen't do that but I do remember missing it the first round and with the later episode going 'huh?' with some things.

Will there be enough time to edit the footage from the DVD for the production of it to make it to market in the fall? It just seems like a quick turn around for finishing up filming a couple months before the release. But I'm not in the film business so I wouldn't know. *Winks* Just a thought.
Lily Doll
Friday, June 18, 2004 11:26:56 AM
IP: 67.35.197.6

That's good news about the DVD...sounds like there'll be some good extras on it if Disney's going to the trouble of sending a crew to Montreal.

Todd and "Her Brother's Keeper": Thanks for your continuing comments. I agree that the ending is very effective (I still remember being impressed with it the first time I saw this episode). It's another illustration of the uniqueness of this series, and a somber reminder that everything isn't all wrapped up happily at the end of each episode.

I also enjoyed Brooklyn's wisecracks, like using the crashed helicopter as a planter, and his references to both "Star Trek" and "Star Wars."

You mentioned Goliath's comments about his rookery brothers being dead as a foreshadowing of the very next episode. I didn't notice that at first, although I thought that Goliath telling Elisa and Derek that "there is nothing--nothing--more important than family," seemed to be a foreshadowing of his later relationship with Angela (notably his agony over almost losing her in "Grief" and "Hunter's Moon.")
Abby
Minneapolis, MN
Friday, June 18, 2004 11:00:14 AM
IP: 161.225.1.12

*GASPS* I WANNA GOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wish I really could. But money is so tight. Especially since my car accident. Can't work. Means no income. Means spending is next to nothing. *sigh* But that is so great that they are going there. Hopefully it will be a whole section on the Gathering and not a 5 second clip.

Congrats Greg and all going to the Gathering! I hope to see you on the DVD!
Siren
Thursday, June 17, 2004 07:42:22 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

Thanks for the announcement, Greg. (And what great timing; so soon after we get a fresh round of questions here about the DVD.)

I don't know that the different colors would have made that much difference - they certainly wouldn't have to Greg, since he's (by his own admission) colorblind.

Though that does remind me of one thing; since gargoyle clans contain so many individual colors, varying wildly from each other (in shades of red, green, blue, brown, etc.), all within the same group, I can't help but suspect that gargoyles would find prejudice based on skin color bewildering. Not just wrong (though I assume that they'd, for the most part, consider it wrong, especially after knowing what it's like to be on the receiving end of prejudice), but bewildering, over why having a different skin color makes you "not one of us". The skin colors within a single clan clearly vary even more strongly than the skin colors of humanity.

Saw my tape of "Her Brother's Keeper" today. Another episode that I enjoyed.

Brooklyn shows how much he's been picking up about the modern world in some of his expressions, specifically "You and what Star Fleet?" and the "Use the Force, Lex" quote. (At the least, he's discovered sci-fi movies and television.)

I still find it appropriate that both Jackal and Hyena, and Xanatos, should be interested in the *Coyote* Diamond. We never hear from the diamond again, but the name has to be a foreshadowing.

The trio show their individuality again during their quarrel scenes: Broadway's concerned about Elisa, Lexington is more concerned with Jackal and Hyena being out there than about the Derek situation, and Brooklyn has to keep some measure of order (with a few wisecracks - I especially like his response to Broadway's "I'm just a big dumb gargoyle with his brains in his stomach" line).

We see more of Xanatos's chutzpah, get even more closely acquainted with Elisa's family (especially Derek), and find out about Fox's interest in Xanatos. We also get to see some of Goliath's bitterness over the loss of his clan (the bit about all his rookery brothers being dead makes a great foreshadowing of "Re-Awakening", right after this one).

And, one of my favorite bits: the snow beginning to come down at the end, and especially coming down as Elisa stands silently atop the clock tower at dawn with the clan in stone sleep nearby. A very effective ending.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 17, 2004 07:07:32 PM
IP: 4.245.17.63

HEY GUYS...

BIG NEWS. SO BIG I'M LOCKING DOWN MY CAPS.

AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, THE FIRST SEASON OF GARGOYLES IS BEING RELEASED THIS YEAR ON DVD TO COINCIDE WITH THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SERIES.

I'VE JUST BEEN INFORMED THAT DISNEY IS SENDING A VIDEO CREW TO THE GATHERING OF THE GARGOYLES, OUR ANNUAL CONVENTION, TO TAPE THE FANS, GUESTS, EVENTS, ETC. FOR THE EXTRAS SECTION OF THE DVD.

THAT MEANS IF YOU ATTEND THE CONVENTION THIS AUGUST 6-8 IN MONTREAL, YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY BE ON THE DVD. LET THAT SINK IN FOR A SECOND.

IF YOU'RE ALREADY SIGNED UP, GREAT. BUT IF NOT -- WELL -- WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!!!!

CHECK OUT THE CON'S WEBSITE AT:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/

DON'T MISS THIS GATHERING!!!!!!!!
GREG WEISMAN
Thursday, June 17, 2004 06:52:48 PM
IP: 209.178.159.127

Greg and Joss working together? I would love to see that!!

I had heard of the Buffy animated series. Saw some pictures. I had heard and it looked like it was from the same animators as Batman animated series
Siren
Thursday, June 17, 2004 01:19:13 PM
IP: 65.33.112.117

J Greg:
<<<<But anyway, on to another topic: How does everyone think the series would have gone if the Gargoyles had all been different colors? If Goliath was green and Demona was yellow and so on...?>>
<<You mean change colors in the middle of the series? Before the third season?>>

No I meant if they had been colored differently at the beginning. I think their coloring is/was very important to their characterization: they all would have "come off" differently if they were different colors.

What do you think?
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:25:58 AM
IP: 65.244.171.25

About the DVD, the answer is the first Season will be available this fall. The other seasons will be available if the first Season sells well.

I think this answer should be posted in bold somewhere. When rumor spreads there will be a lot of people wondering and asking multipal times if it's true.
Lily Doll
Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:21:53 AM
IP: 67.35.197.5

I understand that Goliath probably would not move... but just a thought. Especially if future need arises.

As to how they would get there... perhaps by boat or plane. How else do you get to Scotland, silly? *Winks* It was just a thought and I'm sure if he ever did think about it, he would just as easily figure out how to get there.

Todd> I did think it was striking to Hudson's personality at being so honorable to Goliath. He never faid to be brave for the sake of the clan. He has the true heart of an ancient warrior.
Lily Doll
Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:19:50 AM
IP: 67.35.197.5

That would be...whoa, an incredible marriage of talents. Joss Whedon and Greg Weisman working together, along with any other Mutant Enemy writers (from Buffy, Angel, and/or Firefly) involved? Yep, that'd rock.

So no new news about the DVDs then?
Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:18:48 AM
IP: 69.17.169.178

GREGARIUS - Re Brooklyn: I'm afraid not. Why?

Thanks, castle. So it seems that the animated series will be made after all. I hope that Greg Weisman knows about this; he's expressed at "Ask Greg" a desire to be able to write for it (being quite fond of "Buffy" and other series by Joss Whedon).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 17, 2004 06:53:29 AM
IP: 4.244.12.65

Todd: Leaving New York>> Well, that too. :-P

Also, Todd, there was something I meant to ask you. In Awakenings, when Brooklyn confronted Mary, did you notice anything ... off... in his intonation? I mentioned my observations a few weeks ago.

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:40:44 PM
IP: 4.247.188.167

........................In this week's upcoming TV Guide, p14. I had nothing to do so here goes...

Vin

DRAWING POWER
The animated 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' series is back on the drawing board-with Sarah Michelle Gellar erased from the cast. According to sources, she chose not to reprise her role, leading creator Joss Whedon to recruit voice-over star Giselle Loren to mouth off alongside Alyson Hannigan, Nicholas Brendon and Anthony Stewart Head in the pilot (potential distributors get a peek next month). In the meantime, story-line possibilities are endless. Says Whedon's rep: "Buffy can now shrink to the size of an ant, and it doesn't matter." That's assuming she can find a really small stake.
castle0909
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:22:21 PM
IP: 64.12.116.144

I seriously doubt that Goliath would even consider for a moment leaving New York, not since he vowed to protect the place. He'd never abandon his protectorate, not in a million years. He'd find some way of dealing with the possible dangers, but not by running away. (I find myself recalling the case of Mr. Jaffe, the grocer in "Re-Awakening", who also stayed in the crime-ridden neighborhood that he was in rather than moving out because the honest citizens there needed some place to buy food and if he left, they wouldn't have a grocery store.)

Saw my tape of "Long Way Till Morning" today. A good episode, especially if you like Hudson. We get to see both how he's convinced that he's past his prime, and also that he isn't that much. I'm still moved by his refusal to abandon Goliath, no matter how often Goliath begs him to do so. (It just occurred to me that there might be a parallel there in "Hunter's Moon", where Hudson, injured after the destruction of the clock tower, begs Goliath to leave him behind, but Goliath won't do so. And up till now I'd been looking almost exclusively for parallels that "Hunter's Moon" had with "Awakening".) He also shows cleverness in how to handle Demona; he can't defeat her and he knows that, but what he can do is to hold her off long enough for the sun to come and turn them all to stone, healing Goliath. (Of course, that plan won't work again after "The Mirror". Pity.)

Demona is perhaps at her creepiest in the episode, when you see her relentlessly pursuing Goliath and Hudson. I especially like the part where Goliath and Hudson are in the graveyard, and can see her approaching in the distance, and when she emerges from behind the stone angel.

Does anybody know if the Old York Opera House is real or fictional? (I assume that the Village that Demona mentioned it being in is Greenwich Village.)

One lovely touch: Goliath, when worrying over what to do about Demona, points out that they aren't able to imprison her, then adds, "And I will not even discuss the alternative." Of course, we know now that the alternative wouldn't even work without Macbeth's help, but even so, I like the fact that Goliath refuses to consider the possibility, and even is still out to attempt to reach her - although she never gives him the opportunity to do so.

Re the flashbacks: I remember that the first time that I saw this episode, I thought that Prince Malcolm would die to the Archmage's poisoned dart, though that turned out to not be the case. We get to see the reason (or, at least, a reason) for Princess Katharine's dislike of gargoyles in "Awakening Part One" when Prince Malcolm unwisely uses them as bogeymen to scare her.

We get our first glimpse of the Archmage, too. Who'd have thought that he'd be coming back? I certainly didn't.

An odd piece of news: I was looking at today's "USA Today", and it said that Joss Whedon is planning an animated series based on "Buffy". I was astonished at that since I recalled that he'd made that attempt a couple of years ago but had to abandon it when he couldn't find any station to air it on. Is it an old piece of news that got reprinted by mistake, or has he decided to make another go at it? I hope the latter, but we'll just have to see.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 06:54:24 PM
IP: 4.245.17.148

Way back in January, I remember seeing this bit of news from Greg copied from this board and posted to TVshowsOnDVD.com...

"Season One is supposed to be released sometime in the fourth quarter of 2004. My guess is that other seasons will ONLY get a release if the sales on Season One merit that release."

Has he let anything drop since then? Sorry if this is a question that gets asked a lot, I only visit here every month or so. Just wondering if a more specific date has been set, if the project's still moving forward, and what extras they may be including (if any)...Thanks.
Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 02:50:10 PM
IP: 69.17.169.178

CKayote
<<But anyway, on to another topic: How does everyone think the series would have gone if the Gargoyles had all been different colors? If Goliath was green and Demona was yellow and so on...?>>
You mean change colors in the middle of the series? Before the third season?

Lily Doll>> How would the gargs get to Scotland?
JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 01:40:58 PM
IP: 4.247.206.18

Who says they can't go back to their original country? Plenty of castles to haunt without as many people these days. Of course, I know they are used to having electric appliances.... *Winks*

I thought it would be nice if they claimed sanctuary at a cathedral. Just once. Live like Quasimodo in Notre Dame.

A nice thought that they might pick up and move to other interesting places. But how many times can they let go of a home? It's a pretty lonely life saying goodbye to so many places you were growing fond of. After moving myself from place to place, I learn that you meet interesting people, but there is no sense of home any more. As you are sure one day soon you will have to move again...

What kind of home would the castle be if people are always attacking it? It wouldn't be much of a sanctuary. But where else could they call home? Or would they want to bother with such thoughts, and accept the life that they have and deal with the constant threats as they come?

I know they are warriors, but when you may involve hatchlings in the future... or consider that the technology will improve as time goes on... what then? And what of their vulnerability during the day?

Lots to think about, eh? Makes you appreciate Goliath's leadership as having to be the one who thinks about all this and makes such desisions.
Lily Doll
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:27:58 AM
IP: 67.35.197.3

Todd: Wonder how long they could all have crammed themselves into Elisa's apartment (and Yes, I do remember that they Quarrymen found it in "the Journey"). Still...

Maybe the Clouisters(sp?). Or someplace else with man-made Gargoyles.

But anyway, on to another topic: How does everyone think the series would have gone if the Gargoyles had all been different colors? If Goliath was green and Demona was yellow and so on...?

But anyway, on a personal note, my Xanatos-Machinehead video is up @: http://www.nightstoneunlimited.com/NSU_Index_Videos.htm (the hyperlink on my name may or may not work). Big thanks to Demona May for hosting me!
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:27:39 AM
IP: 65.244.171.25

I don't know whether the gargoyles could seriously go live with Macbeth. He had spoken up for them in "The Journey" (I'm glad, incidentally, that his final appearance in the series was on a positive note like that one), but he does tend to be something of a loner, and might prefer having his home to himself for now. Plus he might not even be in New York that often; we know that he's got a home in Paris at least (from "Sanctuary"), and maybe a couple of other places as well. (What Macbeth would have been doing if the series had continued I don't know, though I'm certain that if Greg had gotten to make the "Pendragon" spin-off, he'd have been a major recurring guest star in it, given his tendency to get involved in Arthur's affairs; note that every episode that involved King Arthur in the television series had Macbeth show up in it somewhere.)

The only other possible patron in New York, of course, is Renard, but since he's dying, I don't think that he'd be all that feasible. And I don't think that just perching on the rooftops is going to be an option after their cover was blown.

In any case, the fact that the castle is the gargoyles' original home, and that it's one of the extremely few places in New York with a defense system capable of protecting the gargoyles from their enemies, means that it's probably their best option at present, even if with such drawbacks as the Illuminati getting involved. (And let's face it, the Illuminati would be likely to go after anybody sheltering the gargoyles sooner or later.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 06:55:54 PM
IP: 4.245.16.200

Todd: "Well, what I meant by that was the fact that the protagonists move out of their original home, more or less permanently (they only get back over 50 episodes later), a very big change in the set-up of the series. As Greg Weisman once said, it's like Batman moving out of the Batcave for over 50 episodes to a new headquarters in Gotham City. (As Battle Beast said, this was definitely a show that would be big on continuity.)"

Well the irony to your comment it that Batman DID move out of the Batcave (part time) to help man the JLA Watch Tower in Cartoon JLA Series for 50 episodes. And man did "Starcross" episode RULE!!

Now, I like to wonder, if the Gargoyles series had continued, given all the cloak and dagger politics that happen at the Eyrie Tower and Xanatos Inc., *cough*Illuminati*cough*; honestly, would the Wyvern Clan be been able to safely stay at the castle for any long term period of time.

Of course after the "Sanctuary" episode, I am sure that Macbeth would have let the clan stay at his NY castle if they need too.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 02:18:57 PM
IP: 68.220.44.212

Macbeth is another favorite and probably the first time I realized how involved the whole Gargoyles cartoon was going to be.

I used to do some research on secret societies. Illuminati was one of the only ones that today no one knows the make up of their members. Ones have claimed to be before but never really had much proof. While it was rumored to have been distroyed by greed and politics back in the last 1800's since there was never any proof, I don't know how they could tell. And factions of Illuminati can be found today. But I have always said if I can find your members, website and you have a non-profit org, you're not quite so 'secret'.

Anywho... I happened to catch the one with the Silver Falcon. And then later watched my copy of The Maltese Falcon. I have never researched the Falcon so I don't know if it's myth and ledgend or a part of something else.

The mystery leading through to the ending really seemed funny to me. Elisa was standing on top of the falcon reaching in its mouth. If it was silver, she couldn't have been able to lift it, as the metal is really heavy, especially on such a huge piece.

The fact that Illuminati was brought into that surprised me, but the continuance with Illuminati always interested me. I wish they had done more with them in the series as it brought in a modern mystic feel.
Lily Doll
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:14:01 AM
IP: 67.35.196.205

>WHO THE *beeeeeeeep* IS NOUGHT?

Who isn't?

Honestly, we don't really know. He is one of the Third Race. You can see him in "The Gathering - Part 1" wearing a long cape and a big floppy hat. And that's about it.


Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 08:31:36 AM
IP: 134.215.241.133

Hm...

So, to ask again...

WHO THE *beeeeeeeep* IS NOUGHT?

;)

Just curious...
The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 07:36:30 AM
IP: 217.245.12.115

Sorry for double post, but I meant to add, click my name for more police codes.
Siren
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:47:21 AM
IP: 65.33.112.117

10-31 means "Is lie detector available?"

How odd, lol
Siren
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:46:35 AM
IP: 65.33.112.117

Sorry for the double post, but one other thing about "The Edge" that I forgot to mention. When Elisa and Matt get called to the MOMA on account of the Steel Clan stealing the Eye of Odin, the voice on the police radio calls it a "10-31". Which amused me since "10-31" could represent "October 31", i.e., Halloween, with October as the tenth month, and a gargoyle-like creature as the perp would definitely feel Halloweenish. Of course, I don't know enough about APBs and other police matters to know whether there actually is a "10-31" or not.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 14, 2004 07:15:10 PM
IP: 4.245.16.37

PAUL - Well, what I meant by that was the fact that the protagonists move out of their original home, more or less permanently (they only get back over 50 episodes later), a very big change in the set-up of the series. As Greg Weisman once said, it's like Batman moving out of the Batcave for over 50 episodes to a new headquarters in Gotham City. (As Battle Beast said, this was definitely a show that would be big on continuity.)

Watched my tape of "The Edge" this afternoon.

This is a great one. Very good animation, for one thing. Also, it progresses the series even further. Matt Bluestone makes his real entrance (he gets a cameo in "Deadly Force", of course), and we find out much about him, including his Illuminati fixation (which introduces them into the series, as well). The Eye of Odin gets introduced. Travis Marshall is introduced. The Emir is mentioned for the first time. Xanatos dons his gargoyle armor for the first time.

On that last one, that was one of the biggest surprises that I ever experienced in watching "Gargoyles". The first time that I saw it, I thought that the "red Steel Clan robot" was a very advanced one with a good deal of artificial intelligence programmed into it. So it really astonished me when it took off its head at the end and turned out to be Xanatos.

We see Goliath doing more reading, of Dostoyevsky (just as he was reading Shakespeare in "Enter Macbeth"). That's one thing that I like about Goliath. He's not just some "dumb jock"-type warrior. He's also intelligent and has good taste in literature, favoring the classics.

Xanatos displays his chutzpah delightfully in his encounter with Goliath at Castle Wyvern. "Before long, everybody in the Big Apple will be hunting gargoyles." "Because of you!" "Now if you want to be picky, we won't get anywhere." And, as Goliath takes off in a rage after demolishing a lamp-post, "You're taking this much too personally!"

Incidentally, Michael Reeves explained at the 2001 Gathering how he came up with the Illuminati and why. He wanted it to be believable that Matt would suspect that the gargoyles were real and go hunting for them, so he decided to make him a conspiracy buff. If the guy believes that the world's being run by a secret society that is so powerful as to control the President, it's not a big stretch to assume that he can also believe in living gargoyles.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 14, 2004 07:12:04 PM
IP: 4.245.16.37

I was holding off on this comment until the room cleared.

This past Sat, I saw "The Last Samurai" for the first time. Great, great flick. I loved it. It got me thinking about the Japanese clan of Gargoyles (the Isimuri clan? is that right?) If Gargoyles had thrivied in that village for thousands of years, then there would have been Gargoyle Samurai (at least one would think). How would they have taken the end of the Samurai? It is said in "Bushido" that the village has remained hidden for a thousand years, but news must have traveled about the 'modernization' of Japan. The village made me think that the Gargoyle village could have looked like this during the time period from the movie.

Anyway, it made me think. And that's not a bad thing. :D
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
SC, USA
Monday, June 14, 2004 02:07:58 PM
IP: 66.220.75.160

I think Macbeth has some "gargoyle strength". I think when he and Demona made the pact, he was given more strength. At least that's my theory and what makes sense to me.

Or it could be simply training. If he ever learned any martial arts, you learn that if you can get an opponent larger then yourself in the right position you can do just about anything
Siren
Monday, June 14, 2004 10:42:02 AM
IP: 65.33.112.117

ENTER MACBETH> When I watch TV shows, I like continuity. So When I saw Elisa on crutches, I knew that Gargoyles was going to be ripe with it. It was s subtle way of referencing an older episode. Most TV shows don't do this.
Xanatos is still in jail. Most times a person goes to jail and is out the VERY next episode. He wan't here, and that is something the really surprised me about the show. I can remember being VERY shocked when I saw Xanatos still in jail. I love that aspect too.

Yes, some of the animation was terrible (two that stick out are when Goliath is punching his fists into the metal door and when he knocks a hole into the brick wall. OH, and who can forget the Bat Man symbol? My favorite shot in the whole ep is where Macbeth looks into the sword and we see his face (on the two swords). Love that shot.

I can't remember exacly, but I think one of the gargoytes mentions reading Shakespear, and Brooklyn says, "Maybe we ought to." I don't know about you guys, but I loved the show so much that Iwas willing to do anyhting. I *almost* went and read Macbeth. But, when they mentioned A MIdsummer Night's Dream in "The Mirror", I went and read both of them. I owe so much to Gargoyles for getting me hooked on the Bard...

One thing I just don't understand is how a guy like Macbeth (OK, I admit that he's had some traing in his day) can take out Broadway. I can understand Wolf, but Macbeth? Broadway could sit on him and finish him off.

I had always thought to myself, self, why, if Demona was put to sleep, would she not sleep next to Goiath on the castle? Why was she moved somewhere else? When I first heard Macbeth say that he named Demona, I knew something was up with her. I kinda always did.

This is an important episode in that it introduces a new character into the universe, one that will proove pivitol in the epidodes to come. Still, not my favorite, but a good one.

That is all I will say.
Battle Beast
CANADAMonday, June 14, 2004 10:37:49 AM
IP: 142.59.132.116

Macbeth is a very strong character in Gargoyles, it probably helped that John Rhys-Davies is such a talented actor.

Todd: "The gargoyles moving into the clock tower for the first time. (I like the part where Lexington comments that he could get the clock working again, and Brooklyn asking him why he'd want to. Too bad that Greg never got to do that story with Vinnie being hired to fix the clock after the gargoyles kept on disabling the chimes.)"

Probably for the best, I mean hasn't Vinnie suffered enough.

Todd: "So how many people were truly surprised to see the gargoyles actually move, semi-permanently, out of the castle and into the clock tower?"

It was a good move in that it allowed the Gargoyles a home where they did not have to watch their backs every moment they were there.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Monday, June 14, 2004 09:48:13 AM
IP: 68.220.44.212

Tenth.

As I mentioned yesterday evening, I watched my tape of "Enter Macbeth" on Sunday - but held off my comments until now, after the room's cleared.

I really like this one. Macbeth is one of my favorite characters in "Gargoyles", and I thought that it was a good introduction for him. It establishes him as an effective adversary (the scene where he encounters Goliath in the mirror maze is especially impressive), and with an intriguing mystery about him: his link to Demona. I was all the more hooked because of his name; "Macbeth" is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays. I was wondering even then if there was a connection there; now, of course, we know that Greg had planned for Macbeth to be *the* Macbeth from the start.

The opening, showing the gargoyles having a typical night in the castle (Broadway cooking, Hudson and Bronx watching a Donald Duck cartoon on television - well, Hudson's watching it, while Bronx seems much more interested in his bone, Lexington beating Brooklyn at cards, Goliath reading in the library).

I still get a smile out of Xanatos telling Owen that his stay in prison was a "learning experience". As Blaise commented in his review of "Enter Macbeth" once, what Xanatos no doubt learned was to do a better job of covering up his tracks next time.

Owen shows again (as in "Deadly Force") his competence, putting up a splendid fight when Hudson, Broadway, and Elisa prepare to take away the Grimorum.

I liked Macbeth's castle, and thought it a pity that the place burned down.

Other bits that stand out to me:

Elisa on crutches in the aftermath of "Deadly Force".

Owen watching Macbeth's battle with the gargoyles on the monitor (and finally, after arching an eyebrow in a disapproving fashion, heading out to tell off Macbeth for doing all the damage to the castle in the process; the interesting part is that, in light of Owen's true identity - which, to be perfectly fair about, the production team wasn't aware of at the time - we have one Shakespeare character rebuking another, from different plays).

Goliath telling Owen that they're leaving but will someday return (and who'd have thought that they'd return by Xanatos inviting them back in?), followed by his silent brooding on one of the castle battlements before gliding off.

The gargoyles moving into the clock tower for the first time. (I like the part where Lexington comments that he could get the clock working again, and Brooklyn asking him why he'd want to. Too bad that Greg never got to do that story with Vinnie being hired to fix the clock after the gargoyles kept on disabling the chimes.)

So how many people were truly surprised to see the gargoyles actually move, semi-permanently, out of the castle and into the clock tower?
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 14, 2004 07:29:45 AM
IP: 4.244.12.220

9th in the name of the fay *^_^*

Mooncat
Mooncat
Monday, June 14, 2004 06:29:49 AM
IP: 68.102.17.133

8TH!
matt
Monday, June 14, 2004 04:53:02 AM
IP: 207.230.48.29

7th.
zess
Monday, June 14, 2004 02:02:51 AM
IP: 63.150.32.146

6th?
Siren
Monday, June 14, 2004 01:53:02 AM
IP: 65.33.112.117

5th!
Demona Taina
Monday, June 14, 2004 01:45:57 AM
IP: 172.145.246.175

4th!
Leo
Monday, June 14, 2004 01:43:53 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

ooh, 3rds.
Lynati
Monday, June 14, 2004 01:39:43 AM
IP: 65.66.148.21

2nd
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
Monday, June 14, 2004 12:34:12 AM
IP: 66.220.74.58

1st?
The Sadistic Cow
Monday, June 14, 2004 12:03:40 AM
IP: 69.157.21.68