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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

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Comments for the week ending September 20, 2004

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I just checked ebay and someone is selling 3 copies of the complete series, one is already 89 bucks. *feels a head ache comming on* Anyone else think this might hurt season one's sales abit? I for one am going to get legit copies.

No way a bootlegger is getting my money. ^_^ Id also like to thank Siren, the kiss clip's release will help me clope til season 2 is out on dvd(hopefully!). On another note who wants Gargoyles to be included in Kingdom Hearts 2? I know Id love to go against Demona. That would be wicked!
Kristina Able - [Kristinaable@tampabay.rr.com]
Wesley Chapel , FL
Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:37:43 PM
IP: 68.202.31.200

Lynette> Sure! Come on down! Next one's in Vegas. Yeehaww!!
Jade Griffin
Sunday, September 19, 2004 08:09:38 PM
IP: 66.214.221.22

MATT - Sorry, but I don't have a second VCR, and I have no plans for going out and buying one. I'd rather use the money to buy a DVD player, since I'm going to need one to play the Gargoyles Season One DVD once I buy a copy of it (since, let's face it, I'm going to feel pretty silly if I buy the DVD and don't have a DVD player for it).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, September 19, 2004 06:26:48 PM
IP: 4.244.12.155

Sorry for the double post but I just noticed this...


Matt>Do what everyone else without access to Gargoyles does. Go to EBAY and bid on a copy of VHS, VCDs or DVDs. Most people simply do not have the time to make copies. And frankly, it's illegal and unless I am doing it for a close friend, I'm not gonna go throwing it around everywhere, more so then ever now, because I want people to BUY the DVDs.

Or go to one of the file sharing services like WinMX, Morpheus, etc and download them yourself.

Or ask as a general announcment that you'd like copies. Sometimes you get a bite. I did. I got lucky and someone here sent me copies of all the eps. I rather not name names, in case he/she is no longer doing it and doesn't need to be bothered about it. Just post a request wait a week, if nothing, try Ebay and file sharing.

Siren
Sunday, September 19, 2004 06:07:15 PM
IP: 65.33.112.186

More Gargoyle sightings:

Ultima Online DOES have gargoyles. Both statues and living gargs. And they have killed me MANY times. They are a pain to kill and are best avoided ;)

Everquest also has gargoyles or at least gargoyle-like creatures.

And I created a gargoyle once for Zoo Tycoon, but he was kinda crappy, :P

Siren
Sunday, September 19, 2004 06:02:25 PM
IP: 65.33.112.186

Matt>> I have the episodes on my computer in .avi and .wma formats. I'm in the process now of making CDs to re-indoctrinate a few old Gargoyles fans at my school who don't have tapes and want to get back into the show and, hopefully, the fandom, and to keep their interest alive until the DVD comes out; I can put together seasons two and three on CD for you if you'd like.

E-mail for details, how I can ship them, etc.

Alex Garg - [alex_garg@yahoo.com]
VA, USA
Sunday, September 19, 2004 05:29:25 PM
IP: 216.145.68.130

Hey, last time I checked I was only human and therefore prone to making mistakes.
Matt Fews
Sunday, September 19, 2004 04:15:46 PM
IP: 67.71.158.100

Here, I'll help out. From dictionary.com

no

adv.

1. Used to express refusal, denial, disbelief, emphasis, or disagreement: No, I'm not going. No, you're wrong.
2. Not at all; not by any degree. Often used with the comparative: no better; no more.
3. Not: whether or no.

Matt, you're also assuming that Todd would have the time or the desire to make recordings of the series for you. I won't speak for him, but very few of us do these days. Just wait for the DVDs to come out like we are.

And btw, you get my Newbie of the Quarter Award. You fill out most of the newbie stereotypes quite nicely. Though a half-hearted idea to host a Gathering in your home town, never seen one of those before... wait, I did, but that's another story. Annoying Siryn (btw, she's one of the most tolerant people I know, that took talent) for weeks on a Gathering program of all things? It's just a program, I might have been willing to send you mine if it meant so much to you. I'm not though, so don't ask.

And that whole "I'll talk you through it" schpiel? I haven't seen anything that obnoxious in here for a good long time. Like I said, you're assuming Todd has a second VCR and the time to pick up blank tapes, record 65 episodes and mail them out.

Well, I do have all the episodes on tape including "The Journey" and those other 12 episodes that came after. I do have two VCRs and I know how to copy tapes from tapes. But you know what? The way you've conducted yourself in here for the past few weeks has not endeared me to you, and I have no desire to take time out of my busy schedual to help you out.

Oh and btw, no one is going to pity you for not being able to make it to the Gathering. I know people who've flown from Australia, Korea, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, people who have literally driven across the country. No sympathy from me.

Greg Bishansky
Sunday, September 19, 2004 03:58:41 PM
IP: 162.84.164.187

Matt > You have a really tough time understanding what "no" means, don't you? You managed to stop pestering Siryn, so please stop pestering Todd, as well.

79 days left until the spell is broken and they live again! Gargoyles Season One comes to DVD on December 7, 2004!

Patrick
Sunday, September 19, 2004 02:51:17 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Sorry for the double-post, but it seems I was quick on the trigger for clicking submit. ;)

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=faq16#33

Thats what happened to the vial.

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Sunday, September 19, 2004 01:07:27 PM
IP: 65.119.228.212

Guys, maybe you should read the FAQ.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=faq6#17

Needless to say, "Clean Sweep" wouldn't have killed her. See, the virus wouldn't have "permakilled" her since it would require DIRECT intervention from Macbeth. The OTHER must strike the fatal blow, not some virus if you take the "When one lives, both shall live" quote literally.

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Sunday, September 19, 2004 01:05:42 PM
IP: 65.119.228.212

Gantros, here's another possibility for Demona:

Being half-human, couldn't she revert to her human self aka Dominique Destine.

Matt Fews
Sunday, September 19, 2004 09:19:43 AM
IP: 64.228.205.50

DPH, Ok, so I was half right which as probabilities go, isn't that bad.

Todd, Ok, I walk you through it, you need 2 VCRs, place the original tape in 1 and the copy tape in the 2nd and after that press play on the 1st and Play/Record on the 2nd.

I could do all this myself if Quebec had access to Toon Disney, but like I mentioned previously it doesn't.

Matt Fews
Sunday, September 19, 2004 09:17:11 AM
IP: 64.228.205.50

Kristen>> Thanks for the link! In the review, I love the part where they say 'Legions of loyal fans continue to follow "Gargoyles," !!'. We are going to show the world just how many of us there are on December 7th!!! I'm really wound up!
Gantros>> For Hunters Moon Magic Conflicts, there are 2 ways to look at point 1. Either:
a) As you said, Yes, Demona and MacBeth are now dead (maybe a sacrifice that Demona was willing to make to extract her revenge an all humans) or
b) Because a virus is itself a living organism, It would have been the being that was attempting to kill MacBeth and would fail due to his immortality.
Just another way to look at it. What do you think?

Angela
Sunday, September 19, 2004 08:47:05 AM
IP: 206.40.124.152

I've waited years. And, it was amazing!!! I'm so grateful I finally got to see 'the kiss'!
~~Lynette

Lynette
Sunday, September 19, 2004 03:32:14 AM
IP: 64.12.116.144

Gantros> yeah, i've noticed that funny animation goof in "The Journey" before also. really puts into perspective how our eyes work to tell us distance and sizes. no pun intended.
as for your questions about Demona and Operation Clean Slate. its a good question and one i desperatly wanted to ask Greg when i first came to this site 4 years ago. fortunatly for you, you don't have to wait til Ask Greg reopens and then wait a year or two for your question to be answered since it has already been answered and in the archives somewhere. try looking under "Demona", "Macbeth", "Magic" or something like that...

matt
Sunday, September 19, 2004 01:47:37 AM
IP: 68.90.72.197

Boy, am I full of questions tonight :P

On "The Journey"

I noticed that when Castaway was escaping the clocktower on his helicoptor, yelling "Dream of me, Goliath, dream of me!", I couldn't but notice one of the funniest animation goofs ever in the series. As the helicopter enters the frame, it is IN FRONT of the inner clocktower wall, putting him at a perspective scale of an action figure and R/C helicopter. It struck me that it would be funny that GOliath would pick up on this error and grab the little copter out of the air before it grew to it's proper size as it left the frame.
Gantros
Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:59:31 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Also, on Hunter's Moon:
Wasn't Demona's Plan fatally flawed for several reasons?
1.) By releasing the virus, wouldn't she kill MacBeth by her own hand, therefore killing her?
2.) With the Praying Gargoyle active, wouldn't the conflicting magiks cause one of the following results?
2a.) Demona's immortality negated, and either returns to her pre-spell age (whitehaired senior citizen), or ages to a 1000 year old, non-immortal gargoyle (Think the guy who "chose poorly" in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade)?
2b.) The spells, having mixed and having conflicting terms, either cancel eachother out, killing ALL intelligent life, Human and Gargoyle.
2c.) Like b), the spells conflict and have an unexpected, cataclysmic effect (can't find a balance in the terms, KABOOM!)?
Gantros
Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:52:18 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Also, I dug around the Sci-Fi.com site (like the main page :P) and found the link to the "darklight" movie page, theirs a trailer in there and it shows the demons that look surprsingling gargoyle-like. Click my name for the link or cut and paste the following:

http://www.scifi.com/darklight/
Gantros
Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:24:01 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

castle> while Vinnie may have been the first to hum his show's theme song, he wasn't the last. There was a recent episode of Stargate SG-1 where Sam Carter (Amanda Tapping) hummed the Stargate theme while getting on an elevator with Jack O'Neill (Richard Dean Anderson)
Gantros
Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:19:32 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

........................The funniest thing I remember was after the Banana Cream scene, Vinnie walks off into the distance humming the Gargoyles theme song. Has any other character in a TV show sung their own theme song, or was Vinnie the first? Any thoughts as to why he would have chosen to sing that song...

Vin

castle0909
Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:14:37 AM
IP: 205.188.116.72

Hello Jade, I rewatched HM Part 1 and 2 last night, and am foaming at the mouth to see Part 3. I've yet to see that episode and I will certainly go mad if they do not air it on Toon Disney tonight...lol! Although, I've been assured that Toon Disney will. And, I'll take your word on the demigraphic, I may just have to make a pit stop at one of these conventions...can you believe I never knew such things existed? As, a matter of fact I had no idea there was a Gargoyle fan base still alive and well...here I thought, I was the only adult in the world who still watched, and avidly enjoyed it. So cheers to my Gargoyle bretherin.. ;)
~~Lynette

Lynette - [songbird72180@aol.com]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 11:47:59 PM
IP: 205.188.116.144

I just realized a good place to plug the DVD would be Star Trek sites..
suilad
Okla. City
Saturday, September 18, 2004 10:43:15 PM
IP: 68.12.196.86

If anyone's interested, I have have the pics up for viewing with text on the link below, from G04:) Great memories there. The other half should be up shortly.

Also, saw the 'rat this dvd' thing at the bottom left. If you go back and then to the page again and do it again... Does that count as another rating for the dvd? Could we actually max it out as being the highest ranking dvd that way?

Jade Griffin
Saturday, September 18, 2004 10:29:36 PM
IP: 66.214.221.22

Matt - <Greg probably wanted this episode to not only show the link between H & W but probably also as a final episode for both characters. > Way off base. Wolf was coming back as a member of the Ultra-Pack.
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, September 18, 2004 09:55:45 PM
IP: 67.14.195.38

Vendettas> I must admit that this is one of the two episodes of "Gargoyles" (discounting Goliath Chronciles) which I just don't care for. I didn't consider how it weakened the end of "Shadows of the Past" when I first saw it. (Possibly due to the fact the a scheduling conflict prevented me from seeing the first airing of Shadows", so I don't recall if I'd seen it yet when "Vendettas" aired.) What bugged me was how lightly an episode concerning Hakon was being handled. Yes, Greg has made the point that Goliath was enough of an adult to deal with Hakon destroying most of his clan. Yes, any unresolved feelings Goliath had about that were pretty well addressed in "Shadows". But still, we're talking about someone who murdered nearly all of the Wyvern clan's family. Goliath's immediate response upon thinking he was seeing Hakin and the Captain of th Guard in "Shadows" was a nearly lethal throat grip on what turned out to be Elisa and Angela. But in "Vendettas", Hakon comes off a little too much like villian of the week. I think Hudson calls him "clan slayer" once and that's about it. Distant past or no, something in me feels like Hakon's return should elicit more rage from our heroes, not only at what Hakon did to their clan, but the seeming unjustness of the fact that he's still around to some degree while their lost loved ones are gone and the remaining clan can never even say their final goodbyes. (Sorry, I'm einging into fanfiction territory.)

On reflection, I think the bits with Vinnie are fine, but they really should have been in another episode. I appreciate the idea of showing that all actions have consequences and tying together vendettas large and small. But the return of Hakon just seems too big an issue for the clan to be cut together with a comedy relief subplot.

Still, I'd probably rather watch "Vendettas" than about 90% of current cartoons. Hopefully, that means I'm not shunned.

Demonskrye
Saturday, September 18, 2004 09:33:46 PM
IP: 209.150.45.114

Lynette> Did you get to see the HM episode?:) And no, you are never too old. Come to the con sometime. You'll see a WIDE demographics range of fans. Believe me!
Jade Griffin
Saturday, September 18, 2004 09:12:22 PM
IP: 66.214.221.22

MATT - Sorry, but:

a. I don't know how to make copies of taped programs.

b. I don't have Season 3 (the Goliath Chronicles) at all.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, September 18, 2004 08:33:01 PM
IP: 4.244.12.242

Todd, I greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't mind making a copy of Season 2 & 3 for me, provided you have the resources.
Matt Fews
Saturday, September 18, 2004 08:00:30 PM
IP: 69.156.169.86

Todd, you do have a point, however both Hakon and Wolf still had some unfinished business with Goliath.

Greg probably wanted this episode to not only show the link between H & W but probably also as a final episode for both characters.

Matt Fews
Saturday, September 18, 2004 07:48:56 PM
IP: 69.156.169.86

Watched my tape of "Vendettas" this afternoon.

I will confess that I did have one big problem with this episode: Hakon's return. For one thing, I very much liked the idea of Hakon trapped in the cave for eternity, "without anyone to hate", and so seeing him come back retroactively weakened the ending of "Shadows of the Past" for me a little. More significantly, I thought that his return was anticlimactic. In "Shadows of the Past", Hakon's method of attacking Goliath was through a lot of subtle manipulation of Goliath's thoughts and feelings concerning the Wyvern Massacre and the loss of almost all of his clan, playing upon him more and more until he was afraid that he was going made. In "Vendettas", Hakon was reduced to a simple slugfest approach, without as much drama. (There was the bit where he deluded Hudson into thinking that Goliath was Wolf, but even that wasn't quite the same as the "hallucinations" that Goliath was undergoing in the Archmage's cave.)

On the other hand, we found out that Wolf was descended from Hakon, which was interesting (though at first I thought it a touch contrived; now that I understand that the Gargoyles Universe was designed that way, I don't have as much of a problem with that). It was certainly a startling revelation (except to those who pay close attention to who the characters' voice actors are, perhaps), and I definitely got a kick out of seeing Hakon constantly telling Wolf off. (Greg once mentioned that, back when "Gargoyles" was being designed as a comedy series, Xavier - the original version of Xanatos - was portrayed as the descendant of an evil wizard who was apparently the original version of the Archmage, and the evil wizard would be constantly telling off Xavier for being such a disappointing offspring; I wonder if some of that concept flowed into the Wolf-Hakon business.)

Greg no doubt still regrets making Wolf and Hakon's weapon a battle-axe rather than the mace used to smash the gargoyles, and for the most part, I'd agree with him on that. On the other hand, it would have weakened one of Wolf's best lines, when he shouts out "Tonight is battle-axe night!" I don't think that "Tonight is mace night!" would have had as good a rhythm to it.

The fighting got a bit monotonous at times, but had a few fun bits - especially when Goliath and Hudson swoop down at Wolf, Wolf is standing there announcing that he's going to swat them like a couple of bugs - and then goes flying into one of the machines before he can do anything. And the bit where the guy working at the auto-wrecking yard sees the gargoyles and starts frantically telling himself that it must be from the cold medicine. (All that I can say is that anybody who's taken that much cold medicine lately shouldn't be operating heavy machinery!)

For me, the really fun part is Vinnie. The first time that I saw the episode, it struck me as also a bit contrived that the motorcycle rider from "Awakening Part Three", the security guard from "Awakening Part Four", and the security guard at Gen-U-Tech from "The Cage" were all the same guy, but it works for me now. I got a big kick out of Vinnie's recollection of events not squaring so well with the events themselves (as in "I put up a big fight", while showing him actually passing out at the mere sight of Goliath).

Mr. Acme views Vinnie as odd for actually giving his pie gun a name, but I don't know if it's that odd. In old legends, warriors often gave their swords names (such as King Arthur's Excalibur, Sigurd's Gram, Roland's Durendal, etc.), and if you can give a sword a name, you can give a pie-throwing gun a name as well. (Of course, there's the fact that Vinnie actually talks to "Mr. C" - now that would definitely be grounds for viewing him as an oddball.)

One thing that I've definitely got to say about Vinnie; he's the only person in the series who ever got a successful revenge upon Goliath. (Although the fact that his style of revenge involved baked goods would explain a lot about that.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, September 18, 2004 07:17:10 PM
IP: 4.244.12.242

wow, who knew a simple press release could be so cool!

thanks for the link!

we've waited ten years we can wait 80 more days...

matt
Saturday, September 18, 2004 07:05:48 PM
IP: 68.90.72.197

I just got a notification from TVShowsonDVD that an official press release for the DVD has been made. Click on the link to check it out!

I can't wait until December 7th!!!!!!!

Kristen
Virginia, USA
Saturday, September 18, 2004 06:03:54 PM
IP: 199.249.157.129

D. Tania, thanks so much. When I was checking the tv schedule tonight the thing said Hunter's Moon, and that was it, no part anything. I was praying that was just a typo, I can't wait to watch that episode. I've been waiting years to see it...:D
~~Lynette..now wearing a big cheesy grin.

Lynette - [songbird72180@aol.com]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 04:08:55 PM
IP: 152.163.100.196

Wingless, I watched it too, it was more like an ant vs grasshopper scenario between Atlas and Mechanic with the Titans helping Mechanic realize that.
Matt Fews
Saturday, September 18, 2004 04:06:56 PM
IP: 64.228.205.35

Sorry for the double post...but...

If anyone is looking for P2P file sharing services, best bet is to go to www.download.com
There, like Ebay, people give feedback on the program. More often then not, the software company says they don't have ad/spyware, but the customers are screaming and ranting that they do. I got a trojan and 728 spyware and adware programs on my computer for Shareza (DO NOT download that one unless you WANT your computer to die of cancer). Anyways, the only one proven to be spyware free that I've seen is WinMX, though I hear Morpheus is good too.

Siren
Saturday, September 18, 2004 01:49:41 PM
IP: 65.33.112.186

I have Brighthouse digital cable and I get Toon Disney. So Brighthouse DOES carry it :)

Kazaa is FULL of spyware and addware. I prefer WinMX, though I am not sure if you can actually get the video there. Gimme a couple of days. I need to wipe my computer and clean it out and I'll record the clip of Elisa and Goliath kissing and post it here :D

Siren
Saturday, September 18, 2004 01:45:50 PM
IP: 65.33.112.186

er, make that Atlas. I wish I could spell
Wingless
Saturday, September 18, 2004 11:19:44 AM
IP: 69.196.243.7

AAAAAH! Watching Teen Titans right now. An ep called "Only Human" - where Cyborg is questioning his ability to push his limits because he's no longer human. He's sulking, playing a video game against an online foe called "Allas"-who turns out be voiced by KIETH DAVID! Wooo!

I think we in Canada are a little behind you in the US in seeing eps, so if this is old news, I'm sorry.

Just thought I'd let you all know-an excuse for all of you who don't like teen titans to watch it ^_^

Wingless
Saturday, September 18, 2004 11:14:43 AM
IP: 69.196.243.7

I haven't seen Hunter's Moon part 3 in 7 years, and I dont get toon disney either. *cries in the corner* WHY JETIX WHY!?!

Anyone have a 2 min clip of the kiss at all? I just want to see it again. I remember the first time I saw it and was practically cheering those two on! I wonder if they will ever show Gargoyles outside of toon disney ever again.

*ponders* Does Brighthouse cable offer it as an extra in a package? I hope I can convince my parents to get it.

Kristina - [Kristinaable@tampabay.rr.com]
Wesley Chapel , FL
Saturday, September 18, 2004 10:48:17 AM
IP: 68.202.31.200

Lynette: ABC Family is the one that won't air Hunter's Moon: Part 3. They screwed up by airing Vendettas twice and didn't fix the schedule, so now it probably won't air. And to top it all off, they did this because of some stupid monkey show! I'm so angry. They air Spider-Man twice; why not air that once, then air X-men, and then air Gargoyles? Who is in charge of scheduling this thing?

Oh, wait, I'm rambling. Ahem. Toon Disney IS going to air Hunter's Moon: Part 3 TONIGHT. Don't miss it!!! And I'm sure you're going to LOVE the ending... [grin]

As for the mass purchase, I'm doing my part by promoting it on the Toon Zone forums. Several people have already answered and are willing to buy the DVD from Amazon on the release date. I've also been spreading the word at college; it's amazing how many people remember the series fondly. We still have over two months left; let's promote the heck out of this thing!

D. Taina
Saturday, September 18, 2004 06:24:19 AM
IP: 172.147.250.54

Lynette: Have you tried Kazaa? I've seen all the eps there, if not all at the same time.

Patrick: but...Spaceballs is already out on DVD. I've had a copy for months...and what do they have to release as a special edition, mine already has a lot of extras.

Hmm...anyone think we can buy out the stock that Amazon has for the Gargs DVD? THAT would get Disney's attention, I imagine...

Lynati
Saturday, September 18, 2004 06:12:09 AM
IP: 4.139.48.137

All right guys, I've never posted here before..but I'm seriously about to die. I've been a loyal fan of Gargoyles since its inception, and the one...one, show I've never gotten to see is Hunter Moon Part 3. I have rewatched the entire series again so that I could finally see Goliath and Elisa confess what we've all known for sometime. And, now I hear this terrible rumor that Toon Disney does not plan to air that episode. So I'm serioulsy in a funk. Does anybody have a clue where I could get my hands on a copy? If I don't eventually get to watch that show I'm gonna go mad...lol.
Lynette~~who's much to old to be watching cartoons, so let's keep this a secret shall we??? :D

Lynette - [songbird72180@aol.com]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 04:43:26 AM
IP: 64.12.116.144

Was watching Stargate SG-1 on Sci-Fi when I saw an ad for a Sci-Fi Original Movie, "DarkLight". Looked like your average Light VS Dark movie, but the villains looked surprisingly Gargoyle-like. I suppose you could look it up on scifi.com
Gantros
Saturday, September 18, 2004 12:06:26 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Thnx for the update! I am lucky I landed on this site. I don't even know what made me do a search for Gargoyles. Must be fate... I live way out in the middle of nowhere, so I do not have cable. Therefore, I have not even seen Gargoyles in a LONG time. Can't wait for December 7th! I'll do my part to spread the word to all my friends.
Angela
Friday, September 17, 2004 09:14:13 PM
IP: 206.40.124.32

I just heard that the original "Star Wars" trilogy will be out on DVD at the end of the month. And right next to that full page ad in "Entertainment Weekly" was a full page ad for "Spaceballs", which is also coming out on DVD. I wonder if Disney will be running any ads like that for the "Gargoyles" DVD.

81 days left until the Gargoyles Season One DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

Patrick
Friday, September 17, 2004 08:28:35 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

DPH - Only one down, unfortunately.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 17, 2004 08:19:46 PM
IP: 4.244.12.149

Todd - 2 of those questions down, 31 more to go. (Yes, I counted them once upon a time.)
DPH
AR, USA
Friday, September 17, 2004 08:07:20 PM
IP: 67.14.195.30

Todd > You don't even have to wait for December 7th to file your review at Amazon. A lot of us have already put our plugs in. Brick and mortar sales count too. So don't feel bad about not buying online.

Kaylee LOL! The room's been busy this week.

kathy - [The Spell is Broken and They Live Again! Disneys' Gargoyles Buy it December 7th on DVD]
Friday, September 17, 2004 07:54:03 PM
IP: 66.82.9.79

*laughs* nevermind...It is here...I just didn't scroll enough. *hides sheepishly*
Kaylee
Friday, September 17, 2004 07:03:47 PM
IP: 216.221.81.96

Message from Greg (since I don't see it here already, but it is on the latest responce page):
*****

Gang,

I just talked to the folks at Buena Vista Home Entertainment.

I asked them what was the best date for us to MASS ORDER/PURCHASE the 1st Season Gargoyles Series DVD.

My contact was unequivocal in his response.

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 7th, 2004.

Yep, that's right the day of the release. I guess anything earlier is nice but winds up being too early to be useful. But day and date with the release is exactly what we need.

In the meantime, BV encourages ALL OF YOU to go to Amazon and rave in the comments/reviews section. Leading up to Dec 7, the more good buzz on Amazon's site the better.

(Remember this is the make or break event in the fandom. It's time to prove to Disney once and for all that we have the bodies and the dollars and the fanbase and the communications skills to support more Gargoyles product -- both merchandise and creative. If we can't prove it with this DVD release... well, we're not likely to get another chance.)

So spread the word. SPREAD THE WORD!!!!!!!!

The DVD is coming out December 7th. And we'd like EVERYBODY to ORDER/PURCHASE it on THAT DAY!!!!!!!!!
Greg Weisman
Thursday, September 16, 2004 04:04:02 PM

Kaylee Skylyn
Friday, September 17, 2004 07:00:49 PM
IP: 216.221.81.97

*sigh* Greg's just begun the questions from Anonymous which were all "trivia questions" over whether such-and-such a character is older than another (all members of the Third Race), how long the various alien races of "Gargoyles 2198" live, etc. I'd say that Anonymous ought to have read that question/post by Punchinello about trivia questions. (The worst of it is that, since these are all questions that haven't been answered before - though I have a strong suspicion that Greg's answer to almost all of them will be one of "I don't know; I haven't worked that bit out yet" - they couldn't have been rerouted to the same area as the other already-answered questions, even if Gorebash had set that part up yet.)

I hope that people will forgive me for not ordering one of the DVDs from Amazon.com, since I don't have a credit card for that (I prefer not to use them, because I don't want to find myself in debt). I can still go out and buy one at the local Blockbuster's (fortunately, one's within walking distance of my apartment) on December 7, though. And I can still write up a favorable review at Amazon that same day (I doubt that you need a credit card for that).

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 17, 2004 06:52:04 PM
IP: 4.244.18.157

Angela>> The DVD release date is December 7 of this year.

Mass buying/"converting">> I am very much doing my part on this. Wearing my Gargoyles/Gathering t-shirts around more frequently appears to have drawn in interest on its own.

We shall prevail!

Alex Garg
VA, USA
Friday, September 17, 2004 06:30:50 PM
IP: 216.145.68.130

There is a Gargoyles DVD coming out? What is the release date??
Angela - [_]
_, _, Avelon
Friday, September 17, 2004 05:43:34 PM
IP: 206.40.124.58

CKayote>I'll email the link to you. The site doesnt open till december so it still has some broken links. I don't like to post links in here or in the chats because I know it's like advertizing , Unless i get an ok to do so.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Friday, September 17, 2004 03:19:01 PM
IP: 209.179.198.115

Well Im telling all my customers at walmart about the dvd's release and most of them say how cool Gargoyles was. One woman said she would tell her husband about it since he loved the show so much. I shall help convert the world. ^_^ Im just glad my cashier job at wally world is good for something now.
Kristina
Wesley Chapel, FL
Friday, September 17, 2004 03:07:31 PM
IP: 68.202.31.200

Could I get a link to the Gargoyles comics website?

Thanks.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Friday, September 17, 2004 02:29:09 PM
IP: 64.192.75.23

I agree that pimping the fandom, especially on no fandom sites (deviantart, in your signatures on forums) is a good idea!

I already have the link up on My FF website, and people have asked me about it. ^_^

Even just doing little things here and there *REALLY* go a long way!

And gosh darnit..if people ENJOY chatting and everything for all the years some of us have, it's not TOO much to do!

"Ask not what your fandom can do for you, ask what you can do for your fandom!"

(alright..no more breaking diet to have pizza..it makes me weird.. O.o;;)

Siryn
Friday, September 17, 2004 12:36:27 PM
IP: 68.44.127.112

My VH1 post is about to fall off the first page, so here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

Gantros
Friday, September 17, 2004 12:04:50 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

In case anyone is still confused, I believe (thought I could be wrong) the focus on ordering from Amazon is due to the fact that Amazon's top sellers are reflected quickly if not immediately on the website for al to see. So if we can compress most or all of the ordering that we're going to do anyway onto Amazon and into one day, the Gargoyles DVD will go shooting up the Amazon best seller rankings, which will mean increased exposure. I'm going to be taking the same route as Siren since I'm none too patient. I'll buy one or two copies in-store and order the rest on Amazon. Remember, if you're going to be mailing some gift DVDs to friends and family, Amazon can save you a trip to the post office.
Demonskrye
Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:19:57 PM
IP: 209.150.45.114

Shara, Sent you mail. Thanks!
kathy - [They Live Again!... Gargoyles on DVD December 7th 2004]
Thursday, September 16, 2004 08:47:59 PM
IP: 66.82.9.80

Greg>Not obnoxious at all. More like "duh!", lol. I do plan on buying several copies. So I will buy one for me locally and the rest on Amazon. Thanks :)
Siren
Thursday, September 16, 2004 07:40:28 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

If next year's Gathering is taking place from July 29-August 1, that means that those attendees who are also Harry Potter fans have the opportunity for a little crossover celebration. (Harry Potter's birthday, according to the books, is July 31.)

We could be in for a few pictures of Harry and his friends sprouting wings at the Art Show next year.... :)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, September 16, 2004 06:42:42 PM
IP: 4.245.17.170

Siren -- Without sounding too obnoxious, if you're planning to buy two (say one for yourself and one as a Holiday present for a friend) then buy one at Walmart and one on Amazon.
Greg Weisman
Thursday, September 16, 2004 05:53:42 PM
IP: 4.232.51.67

Thanks Greg! Will do on the Amazon.com review :)

To all>Does anyone know if it matters WHERE you purchase it? I'd hate to buy it from Amazon really, because then I wait 1-7 days to even see it on my doorstep. I'd rather buy it at WalMart or Best Buy ON Dec 7th and take it straight to my DVD player.

Siren
Thursday, September 16, 2004 04:16:30 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

Shara - I think you should definately talk to Seth (IRC Goliath) and Kathy Pogge. They are doing the advertising for 2005 and I'm sure could get you flyers, etc. to hand out. BTW... It totally rocks that you are so eager to help. Thanks.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [crzydemona@gmail.com]
Thursday, September 16, 2004 04:10:23 PM
IP: 207.178.216.226

Gang,

I just talked to the folks at Buena Vista Home Entertainment.

I asked them what was the best date for us to MASS ORDER/PURCHASE the 1st Season Gargoyles Series DVD.

My contact was unequivocal in his response.

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 7th, 2004.

Yep, that's right the day of the release. I guess anything earlier is nice but winds up being too early to be useful. But day and date with the release is exactly what we need.

In the meantime, BV encourages ALL OF YOU to go to Amazon and rave in the comments/reviews section. Leading up to Dec 7, the more good buzz on Amazon's site the better.

(Remember this is the make or break event in the fandom. It's time to prove to Disney once and for all that we have the bodies and the dollars and the fanbase and the communications skills to support more Gargoyles product -- both merchandise and creative. If we can't prove it with this DVD release... well, we're not likely to get another chance.)

So spread the word. SPREAD THE WORD!!!!!!!!

The DVD is coming out December 7th. And we'd like EVERYBODY to ORDER/PURCHASE it on THAT DAY!!!!!!!!!
Greg Weisman
Thursday, September 16, 2004 04:04:02 PM
IP: 4.232.51.67

The gargoyles comics website will be attending 2 more conventions in october and november. If anyone who is working on putting the gathering 2005 together wants us to pass stuff out promoting it let me know. We will also be passing out more of the dvd cards and have a computer set up agian showing people the main gargoyle websites as well as our own.

For everyone who was on the list for wanting a dvd card I sent out the next mail out it should be coming soon.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Thursday, September 16, 2004 03:44:17 PM
IP: 209.179.245.53

Where the Ghoulies gargoyles? I can't seem to remember.
Siren
Thursday, September 16, 2004 02:42:24 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

I would imagine Oberon (or any other fay) could assume whatever size and shape he wished. The difficulty, of course, is that if you want to interact with humans and gargoyles, it's best to be similar in size and form. When you're 4 inches tall, it's hard to be taken seriously, and when you're 40 stories tall, it's hard to be heard over the terrified screams. It's also tough to use the doorknobs and the furniture, or blend in and pull off a convincing act of "What, me magical?"

82 days left until the Gargoyles Season One DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

Patrick
Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:44:04 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

On the subject of other gargoyles media: there's a lovely coffee table book called "Nightmares in the Sky" with photos of NY City gargs by F. Stop Fitzgerald and text by Stephen King.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:06:51 PM
IP: 67.136.137.146

Vincent > There is indeed a Gathering Convention. It's called the Gathering of the Gargoyles. The 9th Gathering will be in Las Vegas, Nevada July 29 - August 1 2005 with plans for after events in the works. More information will be available soon so check back here for updates.

To read and see other peoples' Gathering experiences go to the ASK GREG link above. Then to the ARCHIVE and search under Gathering of the Gargoyles. Also G2004, G2003 and so on. You'll find diaries and links to photo albums there.

kathy - [They Live Again... On DVD Dec 7th]
Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:40:33 AM
IP: 66.82.9.81

Hello everybody. Im new here. I was informed there was a Gargoyles convention? Does anybody have pictures of their gargoyle suits they wore? I would love to see them :)
Vincent
California, USA
Thursday, September 16, 2004 02:47:26 AM
IP: 24.53.49.60

Gargoyle Sitings> Actually, there is an interesting and impish gargoyle in an episode of Gummi Bears also. Currently looking for a screengrab of it. Episode entitled "Night of the Gargoyle".

In other news, my sister just got back from a Vegas Anime con last week. She was a dealer and I asked her a favor of putting out garg dvd fliers also advertising the coming con. I was only able to make 40 copies before she had to go. She had this to say: "They disappeared the first day! I wish I had more. Everyone who came up and saw them said, 'Oh cool! It's coming out finally!'"
LOL. I don't even know if they GOT to the ad for G'05! But the publicity helps none-the-less:) Also got a poster up in a local mall comic shop to spread the word:)

Jade Griffin
Thursday, September 16, 2004 01:35:04 AM
IP: 24.205.214.26

Turns out that Vincent, of Raptor Arts (www.raptorarts.com), is a Gargoyles fan and has some interest in the fandom. Perhaps we'll see him on the forums soon.

It was my understanding that members of the third race were "changlings, shape-shifters, beings of pure magic". Wouldn't this imply that Oberon COULD have been 3 feet tall at one point? Or any and all of the the other literary references to him?
Gantros
Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:45:51 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson: The gargoyle comics site and myself have been getting the word out to others and not just the fandom about the dvd. At comic con we spent a large amount of time talking to people who where not in the fandom about the dvd coming out and had a computer set up so people could get access to S8 and other good gargoyle websites and info on the show.

I agree there are so many more fans who are not part of the fandom and thats where the dvd needs to be marketed to. Disney needs more comercials on tv.
shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 09:53:29 PM
IP: 209.179.199.109

We've got some very talented people right here in the fandom who take costume commissions. All anyone has to do is ask around.

Re: "Gargoyle Girls" - We invited the folks that made that to attend Gathering 1999 or send along a copy for the video room, and they never replied to any of our e-mails. Go figure.

83 days left until the Gargoyles Season One DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

Patrick
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 08:29:37 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Meant to say click my name on the last post for a pic of him.

But click my name on both posts now for two pics. Sorry

Siren
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 07:38:58 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

There was also a gargoyle-like creature in a My Little Pony movie. Rescue from Black Castle
Siren
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 07:31:31 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

Watched my tape of "The Gathering Part Two" this afternoon. This is probably one of the bigger battles in the series (on a par with the one in "Avalon Part Three", except here there's only one antagonist - Oberon - rather than a group), with not only the Xanatoses (including Owen/Puck) and the gargoyles taking part, but even Renard, Vogel, and Petros. I particularly liked Renard and Vogel showing up to help out (complete with a new team of cybots).

Oberon magically animated a few statues around the city to fight the gargoyles; the statues remain made of stone, never speak, and seem simple-minded enough to fall for the old "trick them into flying into each other" plan. This is one reason why I don't think that the gargoyles were a creation of magic (and in particular, the magic of the Third Race); even Oberon doesn't seem to have the power to create genuine life from those statues, just the magical equivalent of automatons.

It's a bit ironic that Oberon should swell up to giant size when attacking the Eyrie Building, since in the very early legends about him (before Shakespeare), Oberon was actually a dwarf. The general impression of the experts on "faerie mythology" is that Oberon is based on Alberich, the king of the dwarves in Germanic mythology (a figure who ought to be familiar to fans of Wagner's Ring Cycle); furthermore, in an early (pre-Shakespeare) romance about him, "Huon of Bordeaux", Oberon is presented as either three feet tall or the size of a three-year-old child (it depends on which version you read). (The story also makes him the son of Julius Caesar by Morgan le Fay; now there's an unusual set of parents for you!) So his gigantic size becomes quite a contrast to his literary origins. (Shakespeare doesn't make it clear as to how tall Oberon is in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" - or Titania or Puck, for that matter. There are some general hints about the bulk of the faeries being small in the play - for example, when Oberon and Titania quarrel, all the rest of the faeries hide in acorn cups until their argument is over - but we don't know if they apply to Oberon and Titania themselves. Titania, at least, doesn't seem to have any size-related difficulties in dallying with Bottom.)

And we finally find out that Owen is indeed Puck in disguise, and even the significance of why he looks so much like Vogel. (Accompanying which is the fun of Puck's statues of the various people involved getting the better of Oberon.)

Puck looks out at the camera for a moment when he says "I'm on a roll". It reminds me a little of Greg's desire to have Puck occasionally break the fourth wall (and he's the only "Gargoyles" character whom I can see performing that feat!).

So how many people expected Fox to finally let loose with a blast of magic in the climax? (And not just let loose with it, but send Oberon through the wall!)

I still suspect that Titania's real objective in the battle was to get Fox to use her powers. She informs the gargoyles about Oberon's plans, and as I said yesterday, I think that it's safe to say that Titania would have to know that Goliath would never have approved of kidnapping Alex and taking him away to Avalon. The moment that Fox zaps Oberon, Titania becomes more interested in her (Fox's) feat than in taking Alex away. She supports Goliath's suggestion that Puck be Alex's tutor. I still wonder, from all this, whether Titania wasn't really engaged in a final desperate way of getting Fox to use her powers - by appealing to the maternal instinct at a point where everything else had been tried and failed.

While Puck was obviously the only viable candidate for Alex's tutor, so that Goliath really didn't have anyone else to suggest, I can't help but wonder whether Goliath might not have been (probably sub-consciously) deep down inside getting back at Puck a little for the whole "Future Tense" illusion when he nominated the little trickster for the role.

I still find Oberon's sentence upon Puck a slightly chilling moment, since Puck isn't just another character in "Gargoyles"; he's also a familiar figure from Shakespeare and English fairy-lore. His alteration feels almost as if it's impacting our cultural heritage (well, not quite, because the stories that Puck's given rise to are undamaged, but you understand what I mean).

And we have the most infamous moment of all, when Titania whispers something into Fox's ear. I wonder whether Greg Weisman would have still gone for that moment if he'd known how often the fans would be pestering him about it ever since. (Well, he probably would; I don't think that he'd have given up that scene just for his convenience.)

So we have Oberon and Titania heading back to Avalon, Xanatos and Fox getting to keep Alex, Puck stuck permanently as Owen, the gargoyles reunited and all back in New York, and the beginning of the end of the feud between Goliath and Xanatos. Quite a nice ending.

Only 7 episodes to go.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 07:07:15 PM
IP: 4.245.17.131

Leo>Thanks! That was amusing to say the least! Eh, if I ever happen to see it on a video rental shelf, maybe I'll watch it for laughs.

"There is no one in GARGOYLE GIRLS remotely resembling a skilled actor"...LOL

Siren
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 06:59:05 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

Re: Gargoyles B-Movies.

Click my name to read a review of "Gargoyle Girls." (Part of a double feature DVD) Surprisingly, they keep their clothes on.

It's the second movie featured on the DVD so you have to scroll down halfway. There are SCREEN SHOTS(!!!) of the girls in costume at the bottom of the page. LOL

http://www.cultcuts.net/reviewsmovies/d/demonlover-gargoylegirls.htm

Leo
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 06:23:12 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

I'm daring to show my face around here for those of you who have some money to throw around and want a killer costume for a future Gathering. I found a talented costumer on the web and his Diablo costume resembles a Gargoyle (vaguely). He does commisions, so if you want to check it out, click my name to go to his site, or cut and past the following link:
http://www.raptorarts.com/

Also, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

Gantros
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 04:06:03 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Off Topic> My boyfriend has a review of the new Ren and Stimpy figures up on Jim Hill Media. If you're considering picking these up, or even if you're just mildly curious, you should check it out. Click my name or simply go to www.jimhillmedia.com and look for the article.

Less Off Topic> Aside from all the other good content at Jim Hill Media, another reason that you should check it out is that I will have articles there in the near future. I should be pitching ideas to my editor in a week or so and you can bet I'll be pushing to do an article on "Gargoyles" before the DVD release. So keep an eye out for that and enjoy the rest of the site in the meantime.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye@aol.com]
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 03:41:58 PM
IP: 209.150.45.114

Sorry for the double post but I just had a thought...


I am an avid shopper of Hot Topic (punk/gothic clothes) and I wonder if they have ever played with the idea of selling items with Gargoyles on them...They sell Chesire Cat, Tinkerbell, Alice in Wonderland, and other famous Disney movie characters. They also have cult classics like Family Guy, My Little Pony, and Jem. I can easily see them selling Gargoyles items. I wonder if by chance if we emailed them, if they would look into it. It couldn't hurt. And it's something that just seems natural for Hot Topic. Easy advertising for the DVD and any future releases. And cheap to make and market there.
Here is their contact form if you'd like to try: http://www.hottopic.com/services/contact.asp?LS=0&
You can even contact Hot Topic's CEO :O >:)

Siren
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 03:36:52 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

Ultima X was a MMORPG that EA Games was suppost to release this year, but have since canceled. :( In that game, you could choose to be a gargoyle and they looked VERY MUCH like our Gargs

Hunchback of Notre Dame by Disney had the three comic gargoyles

Gargoyles, the 70s B-horror movie. Which also happened to be Stan Winston (monster maker for Aliens, Jurassic Park and many others) first movie.

God Bless the Gargoyles by Dav Pilkey is a very sweet picture book

Michael Parkes beautiful painting "Gargoyles" http://www.webgalactic.net/clarkscenter/artwork/michael_parkes/pics/kb_parkes_michael-gargoyles.jpg

Hero Machine (www.heromachine.com) features items like horns, tails, and wings to make custom gargoyles.

Gargoyles sunglasses (does that count) ;)

Magic the RP card game features several gargoyles

On of Disney Quest's (an indoor virtual theme park) mascots is a black haired, lilac skinned gargoyle looking VERY VERY much like Goliath. Main difference? Green glowing eyes and the artwork is more like Spawn.


Catalogs like Design Toscano feature many original gargoyle statues, signs, etc.

Ghostbusters' hellhounds were gargoyles

Some B horror called GoreGoyles (Don't everyone roll their eyes at once)

Special Unit 2 a short lived tv series, think X-Files/C.S.I. features an episode about gargoyles eating city dwellers

Little Devils: The Birth, yet another B-horror flick. This time some nut sculpts gargoyles and brings them to life and they of course kill and eat people.

Cursed, and another B-horror flick...Can you guess the plot line?

Gargoyle Girls...soft porn/horror? Don't know, never saw it, lol

I am beginning to see why a live action Gargoyles movie was such a hard sell ;)


Well, that's all I got

Siren
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 03:19:23 PM
IP: 24.165.226.56

There is a DINOSAUR called GARGOYLESAURUS. It is an Ankylosaurid, found in North America.

"Gargoylesaurus parkpini is an Upper Jurassic ankylosaur known from a skull and postcranial skeleton (DMNH 27726). The features used in a cladistic study by Carpenter et al. (1998) indicated that this taxon was a member of the Ankylosauridae. The postcranial armor is said to be similar to Mymoorapelta by Kirkland et al. (1998), who places this taxon within the Polocanthidae. Tentative assignment to the Polocanthinae."

(If you follow that...)

http://home.earthlink.net/~dinosbydesign/gargoylesauruss.html

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaWednesday, September 15, 2004 01:56:17 PM
IP: 142.59.132.116

I am having problems expressing myself.

Let me boil things down: I fear that dramatic fiction handled incorrectly can unintentionally insult the real victims of real tragedy.

For instance, my father, a Vietnam vet, seems to have been offended when he saw adds for the new "realistic" Vietnam video game (Nam '67, I believe).

JJ Gregarius
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 01:41:54 PM
IP: 4.247.206.3

Must see TV, next Tuesday as there is a Shrek tie-in with the new Dreamworks Tv Show Father of the Pride. Eddie Murphy reprises his role as Donkey, I do hope we get to see his kids as well.
Matt Fews
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:13:09 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Spacebabie, You forgot about Gargoyle's Quest for Gameboy.
Matt Fews
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:06:02 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Todd [How many positive takes on gargoyles are out there in books, movies, television, computer games, etc. apart from the Disney series?]

Two different sources actually.

1: Geis of the Gargoyle by Piers Anthony. Its part of the Xanth series and bogged down in puns but the main character is a gargoyle who wants to find a better way to keep the water clean. At the end of the story he and a female gargoyles were allowed to rest on Castle Roogna wich was considered to be a nhonor. They were not like the gargoyles in the series but rather moving statues.

2: Breath of Fire III One of the characters in the game who joins the hero's party is named Gar and he looks a lot like a gargoyle

If anyone else can think of another source then please psot away.

Spacebabie
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 11:46:21 AM
IP: 12.78.46.86

"I've been pushing the DVD in areas outside the fandom and I think that's the direction we all need to take. If you've got websites outside of the fandom (hey arthicks!) it's time to start pushing the new out to those outside the fandom. A quick write-up about why you like the show, a link to some online stores, etc... can really help push this beyond the confines of this fandom. "

GORE - You are SO RIGHT. We need to make sure that we are pimping this harder than anything we've done before. This is our last best chance guys! So sell the pants off this thing!!!

Jen

Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [crzydemona@gmail.com]
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 11:23:43 AM
IP: 207.178.216.226

CANADA WON!! CANADA WON!!! YAY!!!

*AHEM*

GOREBASH> It was at 676? That's freakin' exceptional!

Greg B> I agree with you. You CANNOT compare 9/11 and the Clock tower AT ALL.

On one hand, you have the Hunters who were just trying to rid NY of a bunch of monsters who didn't deserve to live, in their opinion. (They were also avenging the death of their father, because all they saw was Demona throwing him over the side of a building. How would you feel towards this "monster" if you saw what they saw?)

The Hunters were not going after innocent humans. They Only wanted the Gargoyles.

On the other hand, you have a group of terrorists (which the hunters were not) who not only wanted to hurt the US, but did so in cold blood. ANd when they did this, they hurt more people than they realized. I don't think there is one person in North America who wan't affected by 9/11.

When I go to the airport and am asked to remove my shoes for testing, yah, I'll say it has affected me. But I ahve dealt with it and moved on as best I can. I still think about it. It's not something we can make light of or compare this or that to. It was just too big.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaWednesday, September 15, 2004 10:49:24 AM
IP: 142.59.132.116

The cathedral incident also has the airship crashing into the site at ramming speed - and Jason, and possibly Robyn's statements afterward would have probably been pretty clear on that regard. "Yeah, we did that too. Sorry."

Sure they look fearsome, but people aren;t stupid. The sheer novelty of it would be enough to have them immediately cemented into pop-culture.

I've read some of the revamped X-Men comics, and they feature a reaction by the populace toward mutants that I think would be closer to what had happened. There's a group of people scared and frightened, but there are also people who think that mutants are the height of cool, to the point that a fashion designer who also happens to be a mutant is burning up the runways.

Humans fear what they don't understand, yeah, but fear manifests itself in different ways, and fear sometimes lasts only briefly until other motivations came in. Gargoyles in New York would be a cash bonanza for people selling T-shirts, souvenirs, binoculars in nighttime cab rides. Students and the left-wing crowd would be as ferocious as the Quarrymen in insisting that the Quarrymen were a bunch of idiots who had it all wrong - as a student and a part of the left-wing crowd, I'm pretty confident of that. And I can flat-out guarantee that within weeks or months, gargoyle imagery in art, television, movies, album covers would be almost epidemic. People would be faking gargoyle populations in gargoyle-free areas to boost tourism. Books and papers would be published, and when word got out - as it inevitably would, because humans just aren;t that stupid - that gargoyles were sentient, then instead of trying to capture them and study them, I don;t doubt that gargoyles would be sought out for actual, legitimate conversations on television, talk shows and radio. Mary Lou Findlay and Barbara Budd would be calling up Xanatos within a week of Hunter's Moon to get him for an interview on "As It Happens".

And then a few months later, something else will happen, and people would be like "yeah, gargoyles are neat, but American Idol's on." The Quarrymen would fizzle out, if they hadn't already, and people would kind of stop looking up and go "yeah, gargoyles, that was so '96." People would be angrier with Clinton and Lewinsky and Bush's election than they would be with any percieved danger by gargoyles. Sure, a few morons (cough cough Canmores cough) would be trying to start stuff, but I'd say by the end of '97, Castaway's fifteen minutes would be up and the most he'd be doing would be clapping for the contestants from his box on Hollywood Squares.

Whitbourne
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 08:22:07 AM
IP: 129.173.137.50

DEMONSKRYE - Thanks for asking about Obie. She's doing fine, and has made herself right at home. And, no, I haven't showed her "Awakening" as yet, but that's because I'm still on "The Gathering" on my schedule. (She hasn't shown that much interest in television anyway, so far as I can tell.)

A couple of things to keep in mind about the public response towards gargoyles. The exposure wasn't just Jon's footage of the gargoyles at the clock tower, but also the incident of the gargoyles fighting the Hunters at St. Damien's Cathedral, which the crowd had seen with their own eyes. So even once the real culprits behind the clock tower are revealed, you've still got the cathedral incident.

And you've also got the fact that gargoyles don't have a very good PR in general. Think about it for a moment. How many positive takes on gargoyles are out there in books, movies, television, computer games, etc. apart from the Disney series? (I can think of the Disney adaptation of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", but that's pretty much it.) Nine times out of ten, when somebody produces a story about living gargoyles, they're portrayed in it as evil. (Just look at how they're depicted in fantasy role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons, for example!) Whenever we see a castle with gargoyles (of the architectural variety) mounted on it in fantasy art, you can tell that it belongs to the villain. And furthermore, a lot of the other physical traits of gargoyles are ones that we generally associate with evil creatures in myth and fantasy (batlike wings, horns, fangs, clawed hands and feet, being turned to stone in the daytime or otherwise rendered vulnerable then, etc.). I don't think that everybody's going to literally believe them to be demons, but certainly the gargoyles' appearance is going to tap into the collective sub-conscious that associates those appearance traits with evil, and ensure a quick subtle prejudice against them. Humanity has almost conditioned itself to fear and hate gargoyles through the way that it's depicted them in its stories.

Castaway has another advantage on his side, incidentally; the fact that Matt Bluestone's been holding back the Gargoyle Task Force from seriously going after the gargoyles. Nothing like convincing the public that the police aren't going to do anything about the situation to encourage them to turn to vigilantism.

I might add that I certainly don't think that the Quarrymen should be reduced (at least, not for a long time) to being composed mostly of criminals who want to get back at the gargoyles for foiling their crimes. The whole point behind the Quarrymen is one of "humans fear and hate what they do not understand". If the Quarrymen are going after the gargoyles because they want revenge for the gargs stopping them from, say, robbing a bank or mugging Brendan and Margot, then this would not be about "humans fear and hate what they do not understand" but about "criminals fear and hate people who get in their way". It would be no more about xenophobia than, say, the criminals in Gotham City trying to get rid of Batman.

I do think that the Quarrymen were mishandled in the Goliath Chronicles after "The Journey", of course. There was the monolithic element, for a start. And Castaway's plans didn't make much sense. He oughtn't to be conscious enough of the gargoyles' true nature to be making plans for getting rid of them that depend on that (such as phony cries for help). And one's definitely got to be wondering what he could possibly have been thinking when he started pulling such stunts as firing off heavy artillery against the clan in downtown Manhattan or attacking a passenger train; did it not even occur to him that antics like that would not do the Quarrymen's PR any good? (Especially since Greg once mentioned that the point behind the Quarrymen being armed with hammers rather than with, say, fancy fire-arms, was that Castaway was aiming for a "close-up battle" strategy against the gargoyles, since it would allow him to do it without attracting as much public attention.)

I do think that, with enough time, even anti-gargoyle people might start looking askance on the Quarrymen. For one thing, it's a vigilante operation; from the standpoint of the law, they should be leaving the gargoyles to the police. For another, once it becomes clear that the gargoyles are an extremely rare species, scientists are going to want to study them, and they can't do much studying on pieces of broken stone. And if Castaway can't learn to exert more self-control, he's almost certainly going to wind up scaring off even more of his followers, the way that he did with Vinnie.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 07:28:43 AM
IP: 4.244.12.108

It takes more than a media hype and a knee-jerk reaction to propel most people off the couch and into action. That's one of the big reasons why the Quarrymen are a joke. Most of Castaway's manpower was hired guns, and an organization like that is able to survive only when the founder has deep pockets or a benefactor.

In a city that sees crime and bizarre happenings on a daily basis, it's doubtful to me that the incident at the 22nd precinct would produce the kind of city-wide "emotional trauma" most people are envisioning, either. It's certainly no equivalent to 9/11. In scale and scope, it's a lot closer to the 1993 WTC car bombing.

83 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

Patrick
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 07:01:33 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Sorry for the double post; I hit enter before i wanted to.

Gantros> Yeah,Castaway was quick off the bat, but I don;t think the "emotional trauma" would be that big. It was a fairly surgical strike; one building, damage mostly on the top, relatively uninhabited floors, with probably about ten deaths at most, if even that. I think it'd be a shock to New Yorkers, but hardly a crippling emotional blow to the city's psyche.
And yeah, some people would probably be scared witless by the gargoyles on TV - before the newspapers and the TV news shows started their coverage and a whole myriad of viewpoints started appearing. John would have a pretty short window to whip everyone up, and I think that Jason and Robyn would have told the truth to someone. No way that story wouldn't leak. I'd say maybe forty-eight hours until an alternate theory - that the Hunters blew up the clock tower from the huge airship that everybody had to have seen flying around the last couple of days - would have been presented. I'd say the vast majority of people would start to think a little bit about that, and the Quarrymen would not have the appeal that the show showed it as.
Of course, part of me can't help but use my experience to frame this. If the show had taken place in Toronto, if it were Canadians that Castaway was trying to whip up, then I'm pretty confident that the Quarrymen's ranks would fill perhaps one (1) Tim Horton's. Canadians don't much care for visible, spit-spraying passion, and unless Castaway's pitch sounded like "well, you know, the gargoyles might be bad, and so I figure we should go and give them a stern talking to, if everyone's okay with that" then I think the first Quarrymen meeting would be fated to be nothing more than joke fodder for "This Hour Has 22 Minutes".
Greg B> Yeah, I don't think it would have been monolithic; I was the one who asked that question, actually. I don't doubt that the Quarrymen would have been handled better, but unless they were a pretty small splinter faction, with most citizens expressing benign curiousity to the gargoyles or generalized fear with a "yeah, but what are you gonna do?" apathy to it, then I just don;t see them as all that realistic. The Ku Klux Klan was still around, but when was the last time that anyone say them as anything but a bunch of fat, stupid rednecks in white hoods? I think that in New York City, the Quarrymen wouldn't have made as many inroads as they would have in a smaller/rural area that's more insulated from the rest of the world. Not New York City. I'm convinced that within a week of the Quarrymen running around, municipal officials would be telling Castaway to shut up and piss off because he was ruining the burgeoning gargoyle-tourism industry that would have sprung up literally overnight.

Whitbourne
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 06:40:07 AM
IP: 142.177.154.211

Absolutely there cold be a mob mentality, but in this case the evidence just doesn't add up.

CASTAWAY: The gargoyles destroyed the clock tower! They must be stopped!
POTENTIAL QUARRYMEN: Well, wait a minute, what about the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw a big freaking airship hovering eighty feet above street level shooting missiles at it?
CASTAWAY: Well, uh, the gargoyles were flying it.
POTENTIAL QUARRYMAN: But didn't the tape show the gargoyles inside the ruins? And why would gargoyles need an airship? They have wings?
CASTAWAY: Well, you see...hey, look over there! (runs)

Whitbourne
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 06:10:43 AM
IP: 142.177.154.130

Gorebash> [repost] saw your G'04 journal. Thanks for the comments on my costume. And as for the pic Greg drew? I copped it:) That and the one Karine drew right before it, and the gummi bear one I drew right after his:) *kid grin*

Ckayote> as for the make-up of garg stone skin, calcium and carbon based? Yes, I'd agree, as most rock types have a good amount of each of those in it. As a geologist, I gotta know these things:) There are certain minerals, like biotite, that are sometimes referred to as 'junk' minerals which contain a ton of elements strung together (i think the count varies between 12 and 15 elements combined!) so it is highly feasible that garg stone skin is considered a rock. A rock by geology definition is a substance composed of one or more minerals. A mineral is a substance composed of one or more elements. Funny definition but I kid ya not. There it is. Ice is therefore considered a rock. So is salt. A calcium-carbon shell is a cool notion. *thinks* Now why they don't consider bone a rock?... I think it has to do w/ bone being alive and capable of growing where rocks don't. Not without a source to supply more elements to produce the linking chains and crystal forms that compose ALL rocks and minerals. *wonders what crystal system garg stone skin would be under...* Okay. Enough science. I done.

Jade Griffin
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 01:45:38 AM
IP: 24.205.214.26

Sheltie: Happy Birthday!

Whitbourne: You're assuming everyone in NYC isn't "bordering on the cataclysmically stupid". Otherwise I agree with you completely.

Gantros: Great quote.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 01:11:08 AM
IP: 64.192.75.23

BTW, as a New Yorker, I think comparing the FICTIONAL events of blowing up the Clock Tower to the REAL events of 9/11 is bad taste at best, complete and utter stupidity at worst.
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:39:58 AM
IP: 162.84.164.187

Whit> THe Quarrymen weren't a bad idea, they were just horribly done by the TGC writers.

And you know, Greg's stories would not be that simple. He doesn't believe in monolithic organizations. I believe you were at the Blue mug-a-guest when he was talking about this.

Also, keep in mind, the Ku Klux Klan are still able to march down the street to this very day. I think Castaway would be able to attract followers. As for other reactions, unfortunatly Greg only got to do "The Journey", so I'm sure we'd have gotten different reactions from humanity.

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:38:25 AM
IP: 162.84.164.187

Just a quick plug for something I dig. I got my copy of Flight: Volume One. It's an anthology of 8-10 page comics all loosely sharing the theme of flying. It's got some really great stories in there that are worth checking out.

And here's how!

There's a preview section up at the official website for this thing:
http://www.flightcomics.com/preview.htm

It has two of the stories that come in the book.

Then there's THIS place:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=3734

which has a HUGE preview with 3 more complete stories from the book. On this site you can read "I wish..." by Vera Brosgol which I especially dig.

Kazu Kibuishi's stuff (http://www.boltcity.com/) is especially entertaining as his work is very much influence by Hayao Miyazaki (http://www.nausicaa.net) whose work I've enjoyed and been inspired by for years.

There isn't a bad story in this book. They're all different and very imaginative and ... just friggen cool.

This is a nifty little gem that's worth picking up if you get a chance.

In other news I see Gargoyles Season 1 DVD was at 676 on Amazon's sales rank the other day. I have no clue if that's good or bad... but I do recall it being somewhere around 2,000 just a couple weeks ago.

I've been pushing the DVD in areas outside the fandom and I think that's the direction we all need to take. If you've got websites outside of the fandom (hey arthicks!) it's time to start pushing the new out to those outside the fandom. A quick write-up about why you like the show, a link to some online stores, etc... can really help push this beyond the confines of this fandom.

As I've said before, and I'll say again, _EVERY_ person I've mentioned this DVD to has had the _SAME_ reaction... "Oh cool! I remember that show. That was a great show. I can't wait for the DVD!"

There is a _GINORMOUS_ fan base for Gargoyles out there waiting to be brought back to life. We need to tap into that.

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:32:58 AM
IP: 68.239.55.45

<< The incident suggests that a 9/11 attack could be executed easily. >>

What does that mean? Surely you're not suggesting that Osama was watching Toon Disney one day and got inspired?

No matter how you present it, I still see no comparison between the FICTIONAL events of "Hunters Moon" and the real life national chaos of September 11, 2001.

Patrick
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:29:15 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

I am perturbed that some think that militant attacks should not be compared to/contrasted with 9/11.

We must learn from history.

Now, the affects of the incident in question may not be the same as 9/11, as very few people would have died, but the import is there. The incident suggests that a 9/11 attack could be executed easily.

In retrospect, I think this may be why I dislike the overabundence of military tech in "comic book" stories.

JJ Gregarius
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:01:45 AM
IP: 4.247.194.84

In addition, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended by daring to compare the destruction of the clocktower to the event's of 9/11
Gantros
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:58:24 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

I didn't mean the scope or death toll, for that, there is no comparison. But the emotional trauma could be compared. What I was saying was, that in the people's effort to cope with the destruction of the clocktower, they wanted some explaination to "Why? Who?".
John Carter (Canmore/Castaway) was quick to broadcast the destruction of the clocktower almost immediately after it happened, with the "evidence" that the gargoyles were responsible. A mob mentality formed, and the seeds of the Quarrymen were sown. For the first few months at most, the people of Manhattan were afraid because the gargoyles wer alien to them, they were big, they looked fierce, and Castaway and his Quarrymen were reinforcing those fears without giving anyone time to think, "Hey, what about the gargs side?". It's the kind of revelation that people are afraid of when people theorize about "First Contact" with an extraterrestial race: Fear, Religious hysteria, Paranoia, and all sorts of base human emotions that for the unknown factor (Gargoyles), are very bad for their health. A good phrase is from the movie "Men in Black"

"Why the big secret? I mean, people are smart, they can handle it, right?" - Agent J (Will Smith)

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it," - Agent K (Tommy Lee Jones)
Gantros
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:57:33 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

<< if you were to compare 9/11 to the destruction of the clocktower >>

Sorry, there is no comparison. And I sure hope I don't have to explain the nearly 4,000 reasons why.

Patrick
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:58:34 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Although I hate to use such a tragedy as a comparison, but if you were to compare 9/11 to the destruction of the clocktower, people's emotions and fears would have run high and would have likely believed anything in search of an outlet for their turmoil.

Although, after a few months at most, the chaos created that would have given the Quarrymen their initial support would have dissapated, boiling down to criminal elements that are threatened by the gargoyle's vigilantism. Groups that would support the Quarrymen after the general public had calmed down and looked objectively would most likely include:
Mercenaries (Banquo and Fleance, Xanatos Goon Squad)

Ambitious/ignorant politicians (Mayoral Candidate Doyle from TGC, Margot Yale)

Criminals (Brode/Dracon Remnants, Misc. Thugs)

Ignorant Youth ("Kids that don't know any better")

Religious Fanatics (No one in canon series I can name, but there's bound to be some religious opposition out there)

Also, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

Gantros
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:52:04 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

About people's reactions: I sincerely doubt that everyone in New York would have believed Jon Carter's broadcast about the gargoyles destroying the clock tower.
There was a freaking huge airship hanging around in front of it just before it blew. For people not to put two and two together would sort of imply that everyone in New York City is bordering on the cataclysmically stupid. And then Jason and Robyn's statements, corroberated by the inevitable investigation/inquiry...
I'd say the Quarrymen would have people's undivided attention for a couple of weeks at most, and then the full range of human emotion would come out - curiousity, wonder, apathy, artistry, comedy. Letterman, Leno, Jon Stewart would all be having field days. (Was John Stewart around in '96? I don't know for sure). There would be the out-there conspiracy theories how it was all an advertising ploy for some company-or-other, the Sierra Club would probably start raving about endangered species protection. Tourism to NYC would shoot through the roof for people curious to see the gargoyles, and sooner or later somebody would be marketing moonlight tours to see gargoyles for paying Midwestern and Canadian tourists. Soon the whole thing would become a cacophony of noise inevitably drowned out by the next month's big story. And after that, gargoyles would become just a part of the NYC mythos, as much a part of the city as the Statue of Liberty and psychotic taxi drivers.

That's why I hated, hated, HATED the Quarrymen. It was too simple. Not everyone would have been afraid, and Castaway would have had just as many people telling him to shut up and go away as he would having people hoisting hammers and spraying spittle as they shouted slogans.

Whitbourne
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 09:50:36 PM
IP: 156.34.94.23

Gathering Part One> one thing that always bugged me about this episode has to do with Boudicca. Greg has told us that Bronx and Boudicca have become mates and will mate again. why didn't they decide to use this oppurtunity to unite Bronx and Boudicca? having Oberon bring Boudicca to New York the same night Bronx comes home would have been neat. how are they supposed to meet and mate again?

creativity demon! before leaving Avalon, Jade and Turquesa see that Boudicca is broken hearted at losing Bronx. everyone decides taht Boudicca should join Jade and Turquesa on their trip home. they stop at New York, Jade and Turquesa drop off Boudicca and pick up the Sun Amulet! bingo! two loose threads tied up! ok, i admit, it doesn't seem too realistic...

public acceptance of gargoyles> i think that there would be MANY people who would want answers about what the gargoyle's intents are and what happened with the police station and all that but still not hate the gargoyles. i think a lot of people would quickly reject the mosters/demon argument and see that they are a living creature. many might suspect space aliens and stuff, but thats not neccesarily a bad thing. the point is, i think there would be a lot more people wanting answers, but giving acceptance than one might think.

matt
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 09:15:05 PM
IP: 68.90.72.139

OK, where were we? Oh yes...

"The Batman"> For one thing, I really don't care for the title. It feels very much like an "out of ideas" thing. And it leads to awkward phrases like "the 'The Batman' style" or "the 'The Batman' crew". But anyway, the first episode was a bit of a letdown for me. It felt like a lot of exposition and not enough story. One of the strengths of Batman's character is how simple and easy for the audience to "get" it is. He doesn't have any particular superpowers or weaknesses that need to be clearly laid out. Just familiarize the viewers with his main gadgets and you're pretty much done. Heck, you can even leave his origin for a later episode. "Batman: TAS" didn't even touch on the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne until they had several episodes under their bat-belt. "The Batman", however, feels the need to reference it in the first episode in some rather blatant exposition. The style isn't quite sitting right with me either. Some designs seem really good, others feel overdone. And the bright green skies don't make a whole lot of sense, especially when they continue to use the red ones as well. The voice cast feels like people trying to imitate the original voice actors takes on the characters. The animation is geared to fight scenes and, as my boyfriend observed, drops markedly in quality after the fights. "The Batman" isn't a complete disaster or anything and I'll be watching a few more episodes before I decide how I feel about it as a series. But considering the previous series, it just doesn't stack up.

Todd> I see your point about the PIT Crew. Perhaps the pro-gargoyle groups would be more common further away from Manhattan. I think if the Ishimura clan were revealed to the world and it became clear that they had been living in harmony with humans for quite some time, the public might

And speaking of the remaining clan caring for Cagney, how is Obie settling in? Have you shown her "Awakening" yet or do you think she's too young at the moment? :)

Demonskrye
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 08:51:48 PM
IP: 209.150.45.114

Todd > I think you underestimate the speed with which college students, old hippies, animal rights activists, conservationists, and the like would jump on the bandwagon to demand the gargoyles be protected for one reason or another.

Gantros > The point I was making is that ground rules of time travel in "Back to the Future" are different than they are in "Gargoyles." "Back to the Future" (and "Star Trek," for that matter) assumes that time is mutable. So the changes you make in the past will carry forward to affect the present. "Gargoyles" (and "Harry Potter" as someone mentioned) assumes that time is immutable. So any changes you attempt to make in the past can't affect the present as you know it because they have already occurred, whether you like it or not.

84 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

Patrick
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 08:26:56 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

I suspect that it would have taken some time for anything equivalent to the PIT Crew to show up in New York after the gargoyles had been revealed. Remember, at this point the evidence that the public have about the gargoyles present them as being dangerous, savage monsters who reportedly destroyed a police station (Jason Canmore would certainly have told the truth after seeing the light, but I doubt that too many people would have believed him) and got into a fierce battle at St. Damien's Cathedral. At this point, they have no evidence as to what the gargoyles are really like (beyond a few statements by Matt Bluestone and Macbeth on television, without any supporting concrete evidence). At this stage, I doubt that anybody's likely to feel sympathetic towards the gargoyles (apart from the few humans who'd already met them such as Elisa); they'd see them as a menace that would need to be dealt with. A support group for the clan would be as likely as a support group for hungry mountain lions in a community that was threatened by them (or saw itself as being threatened by them).

Later on, as the public starts to gradually learn more of the truth about the gargoyles, that could change. But I certainly doubt that too many people would be wanting to help the gargoyles at the time of "The Journey".

I watched my tape of "The Gathering Part One" this afternoon. A few thoughts about it.

I really like the opening scene with all those returning Oberati entering the castle and carrying torches. And it's a lot of fun to take a look at the assembling crowd in the great hall. I've spotted not only practically all the Third Race from the World Tour there, but also a few extras: a couple of giants, a centaur, a winged horse, and, of course, the infamous Nought.

It recently occurred to me that they might have chosen Odin to be the one to get into a fight with the Banshee because his voice actor was already appearing in this episode as Petros Xanatos; it would certainly be the economical explanation. (I still find it a bit startling to see Odin as a subordinate to Oberon, since there was never any indication in Norse mythology that he was taking orders from anyone else - and in the Norse myths, the gods outranked the elves - but I've grown to accept it in time, or at least, to tolerate it.)

Oberon displays a slightly odd sense of humor when he asks the Banshee if she has anything to say for herself while she's frozen in ice and unable to speak.

When the Weird Sisters are talking to Oberon about Puck, Selene displays a tone suggesting a strong dislike towards him. She practically spits out his name when she mentions it, while clenching her fists, and eagerly volunteers to hunt him down. (Then again, she is the Sister representing vengeance.)

Incidentally, the bit about the Weird Sisters here (in their last appearance in the series) that I get a kick out of is when, after dropping the Banshee upon her demands to release her, they immediately shrug their shoulders a little (in a manner almost evocative of the Warners in "Animaniacs").

Pity that we never got to see the Banshee story continued.

Oberon showing Boudicca Puck's flute makes me wonder still whether Puck could have been the Pied Piper of Hamelin.

It's a lot of fun to see Xanatos and Fox's relatives all in the same room together (including the inevitable question that comes from seeing Owen and Vogel in the same room). I really enjoyed the bit where Petros and Renard are shaking hands. (They've got one thing in common; they've both got a stronger sense of honor and right and wrong than their kids.)

Anastasia seems as puzzled as everyone else over Owen's alarm at learning about her remarriage. I wonder if she was genuinely in the dark about his true nature at that point, or if she was just pretending to be so as to keep from looking suspicious.

I like the touch of Anastasia calling Alex "my little prince" - a subtle hint about what's coming up.

Another delightful bit: the scene where the Jogger meets Oberon. (Especially the bit where Oberon glances at the Jogger as he runs past him, as if to say "What's the matter with him?")

And the bit where Oberon pulls off an "Obi-Wan Kenobi" act on the security guard (two Star Wars reference in a row, the first one being the Clone Wars line in "Future Tense") is a lot of fun too.

We get a look at a younger Renard in Titania's flashback, not yet suffering the ravages of age and disease.

One thing that can be said to Oberon's credit: he's not the least bit jealous (so far as we can tell) about Titania's marriage to Renard. Rather, he's merely amused and intrigued.

Travis Marshall has clearly gotten promoted, since he's now serving as anchorman when reporting on Alex's birth rather than merely a reporter on the spot. (Note that he mentions about Xanatos and Fox being both ex-convicts. This guy certainly isn't in awe of them.)

Goliath and Co. finally get home to have the reunion with the clan. I particularly liked Broadway's reunion with Elisa. And I got a kick out of the bit where he offers Angela what's left of the chocolates.

(I also enjoyed our glimpse of Cagney being cared for at the clock tower, and happy to be back with Elisa. Always moving to me as a cat-lover.)

I find it interesting that Titania should have informed the gargoyles about Oberon's upcoming plans to take Alex away. It's so unlikely that she believed that Goliath wouldn't disapprove of the plan that it makes me all the more suspicious that her real objective in the battle could have been to force Fox to use her powers rather than to simply take Alex off to Avalon.

A nice animation touch: Oberon doesn't have the same rain-halo about him that Officer Morgan does. (And the episode really makes up for lost time in getting in so many familiar bit-figures in now that we're back in New York: Morgan, the Jogger, Travis Marshall, and Brendan and Margot, as well as Petros, Renard, and Vogel.)

And I still think that the force field going up around the Eyrie Building is a great scene.

Now for the really important part of this episode: this was when I finally began to suspect that Owen was Puck in disguise. What got the little warning bells ringing in my head was when Owen's hurriedly clearing out before Oberon's attack comes, saying that it's too dangerous for him to be involved in the battle. I'd somehow ignored all the other hints (even his response to Anastasia having remarried). But I didn't know for certain, so I knew that I'd have to wait until Part Two to have my suspicions confirmed. You've got to admit, it really altered my perceptions of Owen....

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 07:16:30 PM
IP: 4.244.18.113

Happy birthday sheltie! Hope you have a good un.

Future tense> When I first saw this I thought that Goliath would have to give in and use the phoenix gate to change the past. (I hadn't seen "Vows" or "The mirror" before I saw Future Tense so I didn't know that history was immutable or who Puck even was).

I don't know whether anyone else has noticed this already, but in Hunter's Moon Part one when Elisa and Jason are apprehending the thieves at the D17 warehouse, the emblem of the hunters (the three scratches) is on the canisters of the DI7. Strange? Is it just coincidence or am I seeing something which isn't there?

On another note

Matt Fews>> "if I remember correctly Gargoyles originally aired on October 24th, 1994,"

Then that means there are only 40 days left until the 10th birthday of the best animated show on Earth.

Faieq
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 05:33:16 PM
IP: 212.159.30.247

Demonskrye> I was under the impression that the PIT Crew was just getting off the ground when the Quarrymen decided to nip it in the bud. Whether or not they regarded gargoyles as endangered animals or sentient beings was pretty much laid to rest when Angela visited them in the hospital (forget the name of the episode, but it was the one where Hudson was going blind).

One of my own little ideas involved another Nightwatch debate with Margot and MacBeth, in which a "special guest" comes in (one of the gargoyles, I figure Goliath since he is the leader for one, and is pretty good at those speeches for another), to defend his kind. The Quarrymen bust in on live television putting a blackmark on their reputation. Would be an educational point if the gargoyle took a pacifist approach and let himself be taken by the Quarrymen (I don't think they would strike him down in front of witnesses on live television, they would want to kill him at one of their rallies and aggravate him so he would look more monstrous before they attempted to do him in).
Gantros
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 05:26:21 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

A few thougths on various topics.

PIT Crew> While this wasn't Greg's idea, I imagine if the series had continued under his guidence, something like a pro-Gargoyle group would have emerged. I would like to think that they wouldn't be portrayed in a completely positive light though. Maybe they see the gargoyles as animals in need of protection. Maybe, like in Harry the Hammer's fanfic, they would go a bit too far in the other direction and see them as a force of pure good rather than mortal creatures like ourselves, capable of making good and bad decisions.
I've only ever seen one episode of Goliath Chronicles (not "The Journey" sadly), but my impression from what I read online was that the PIT Crew really didn't do a heck of a lot short of general protests with big signs. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) I've had a long time creativity demon about a faction that splits off from the PIT Crew due to frustration with this attitude and goes by the name of "Renegade PIT". They would have the idea that the best way to fight hammers is with hammers. (Not necessarily literal hammers. You know what I mean.) It's not necessarily an idea I agree with, but i think it would make them more interesting, as they'd be trying to reach a good end through highly questionable means.

Future Tense> Unfortunately, I don't quite recall my initial reaction to this episode. I think I was jaded enough by various "bad future" episodes of cartoons to know that this wasn't permanent. I find it interesting that Broadway is not only the only one of the clan who forgives Goliath, he's also the only one who hasn't in some way "become what he hates". In addition to Lex, we have Brooklyn who was set up to have a grudge against Demona in his first "solo" episode and is now her mate.

Gotta get back to work. Thoughts on "The Batman" later.

Demonskrye
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 02:36:58 PM
IP: 67.100.23.24

Chameleongirl: one of the reasons the episodes might have been shown out of the correct storyline order is that the production order of the episodes differed from that of the running order. Episodes weren't always completed in the correct order and I assume were assigned numbers as they were completed, rather than in the order they should run in. In the short time Family Channel in Canada was running the show, we'd get season 1 in the right order, then they'd screw up season 2. It took alot of emailing from myself and other Canadian fans to show them that the show-in order for the storyline to make sense has to be run in a specific order-and not by production order. The Gargoyle fan website has a list of the episodes and their production numbers:
http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/episodes.html
maybe if you compare the 2, it might explain why they're doing what they're doing-and you might want to send them this link as well(if they're still running the show-which Family channel isn't anymore up here *sigh*)

Wingless
Ottawa, Canada
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:18:21 PM
IP: 69.196.243.7

Gorebash/Matt Fews>> Greg has said to wait for his cue on the mass buy date - he's talking with folks at marketing to get a sense of when the best time will be to pounce.
Alex Garg - [alex_garg@yahoo.com]
VA, USA
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:07:18 AM
IP: 216.145.68.130

Gore, if I remember correctly Gargoyles originally aired on October 24th, 1994, so that might be the best date for a DVD buying spree of it.
Matt Fews
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:36:16 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Has anyone put together a page or something to coordinate a mass-buy date for the DVD? Do we even have a date yet?

If not, might I suggest October 31? Halloween. "Eye of the Beholder". All that goodness. Ja ja?

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 09:40:30 AM
IP: 192.207.57.127

Future Tense> Was never shown in the original line-up here in Australia. In fact, they completely screwed up the Season 2 schedule, mixing up episodes and leaving others out altogether (Avalon and Hunter's Moon were other eps never to make it to screen).

I learned about Future Tense via Gargoyles-Fans.org and was immediately intrigued at the idea and extremely pissed at the TV station.
Thankfully, I have pay-tv and Disney ended up showing Gargoyles, intact and in order. But reading about the missing episodes on the net ruined the impact of seeing them for the first time.

Having only ever seen Future tense twice, it is still one of my favourtie episodes.

Chameleongirl
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 08:26:10 AM
IP: 203.221.145.173

Hey folks.

I'm on such a high -birthday today yay!
20 at last, boy that sounds old though...

Time travel> Recently saw the 3rd Harry Potter film for the 1st time(we don't have a cinema, the local film club travels round the rural halls months after the original release) and having still never read any of the books either, I found it very interesting to see that time travel was dealt with so similarly to in the Gargoyles universe. The bit where Harry rescues himself kinda reminded me of the loop involving the Archmage's fall & rescue by his future self.

Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 07:41:28 AM
IP: 81.131.215.115

I agree that without getting bogged down in paradoxes, alternate realities and other temporal theories, having the past be immutable (as Demona put it) unless you were "meant" to do it in the first place is an elegantly simple way to deal with the sticky subject of time travel. I, however, do not like the concept that it applies to events that are yet to happen, as that would suggest that the future has already been written. On the other hand, by going into the past, the future has yet to occur, so if it is unwritten... (Ears start to smoke as he passes out over his keyboard)

Gantros
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 02:35:23 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Ah, good old Harry the Hammer. I kinda liked him, wacko though he was! ;)

Time travel > I love Greg's seamless view of time travel. That you can't "change" anything, because whatever you do is what you did. Makes so much more sense that way!
Christine - [<--- recent site update! News! Surgery! Stories! Fun!]
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:23:21 AM
IP: 67.136.137.149

Patrick> I've always thought of the Phoenix Gate as to have built-in safeguards to prevent intentional tampering with the timeline, that is, no one can alter time WITH the gate, because it is designed to only take you where and when you need to be, whether you think you chose when and where to go or not.
As for your reference to BTTF, I believe that Marty did change the course of that moment, and when he went back to 1985, he went to an alternate 1985, which was better than the one he came from. The only problem is that he should have encountered different versions of his family, including himself (two Marty's). This is why I think that most time paradoxes are self-repairing when considering the theory of parallel universes and alternate realities. Take the infamous "Grandfather Paradox". I theorize that if you went back in time and killed your grandfather as a boy, you would not cease to exist, but that reality's version of your father would and all those who would have come after would have. If you were to then go forward again, it would be in THAT reality, as your own would have been lost to you forever. This is why BTTF 2 is flawed in that when Marty and Co went forward to 2015, they had future selves. What should have happened was that they went to a future and alternate reality where they had no direct impact on the events leading to that time (They would have been missing for 30 years). They could however, go back to their own time and it would be most likely their own original reality (unless you take Chaos Theory into account, but I won't go into that).

What does this have to do with what I think of the Phoenix Gate? I think the Gate was designed to take it's users on a single reality path, with no possibility of changing reality in any way other than what the Pheonix Gate knows to be proper.
Gantros
Monday, September 13, 2004 11:21:43 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

"Future Tense">> Todd, the backgrounds for the "cyberspace" scenes came from my favorite Disney movie ...

TRON !

In particular, the background for Xanatos' final battle was the hills from the Solar Sailer (no typo here; that's Sailer with an 'e'.) scene, and that of the David V. Alexander battle was from the Entry into the Electionic World sequence, just before Kevin Flynn rematerialized as a program (remember the platforms orbiting the "planet" in Tron?). I am much more certain about the former than the latter.

Other possible Tron references include the Goliath's golden gargoyle allies in "Walkabout" -- "Gold Team" in the lightcycle sequence was the good guys: Tron, Flynn, and Ram -- and Brooklyn's decision to use hubcaps as weapons in one of the Coldstone eps. (disks anyone?). These aren't as definite as the copied backgrounds, and I would understand if they were just coincidences, but still they formed an impression once I noticed them.

Off-Topic I can't believe ESPN2 didn't show overtime in the Canada-Czech Republic game in the World Cup of Hockey! It was the semi-finals! I missed seeing Vincent Lecavalier score the winning goal. :-(
How can the Puck not be in a bad mood? His symbol has been disgraced!

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Monday, September 13, 2004 11:04:18 PM
IP: 4.247.200.128

According to Greg... there are no "alternate futures" in the "Gargoyles" universe. History is immutable. There is just one timeline. It's not possible for Marty McFly to go back to 1955 and change his future.

According to Greg... Mary and Finella were sent forward in time by the Phoenix Gate, traveling along with Brooklyn in the first episode of the "Timedancer" spinoff.

According to Greg... The "Future Tense" world was an illusion created by Puck.

According to Greg... Time on Avalon passes at the rate of 1 hour on Avalon equals 1 day in the outside world, period.

And according to me... everything the Weird Sisters say needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Theey aren't exactly the most consistent when it comes to words versus deeds, so I'm hardly inclined to take anything they say at face value.

Patrick
Monday, September 13, 2004 10:53:10 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Since Avalon sends them where they need to be and time moves "differently" on Avalon, not necessarily bound to the 1 hour = 1 day ratio, couldn't Future Tense, theoretically, really be one possible future? Going over the evidence of the rules stated by Avalon's Children and what we know of Avalon:

1.) "All things are true," -The Weird Sisters
This could imply while the events of Future Tense might not completely come true, going into theories of parallel universes and alternate realities (which is what I believe is the source of all creativity and perceived imagination, like what we see as a fictional cartoon was created out of an "echo" from an alternate reality where Gargoyles DO exist), Although Puck claimed it was an illusion, it must have been true in one reality.

2.) "Time moves differently on Avalon" -Tom the Guardian
Note that he did not say "slower", this could mean that the 1 hour on Avalon is a day outside may not be a constant, and that those who are sent where they need to be also includes WHEN. This fits nicely with Finella and Mary being sent forward in time so they could be in a position to sell the Grimorum to Xanatos, thus setting the necessary events into motion, which are in Avalon's best interests. This would also imply that Avalon is not merely an island, but a living thing (kinda reminds me of the "Heart of Atlantis" of Atlantis:TLE)

Also, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

Gantros
Monday, September 13, 2004 10:33:06 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Future Tense> i remember that the first time i saw this one i didn't believe any of it was real, and at the end i was shown to be right. i remember immediatly calling up my friend and telling her that i think Goliath and Co were going to get home in the next episode. she thought the World Tour was never going to end so she disagreed with me. turns out i was right again...
matt
Monday, September 13, 2004 08:56:42 PM
IP: 68.90.74.136

Greg's actually posted his revised "top people in the Buffyverse" (including Season Three of "Buffy" now) at "Ask Greg". Kind of fun seeing him being a fan like us. (I still hope that, with "Buffy: TAS" having more of a future ahead of it now, that Joss Whedon or whoever's in charge of the series will ask Greg to write an episode or two. Maybe we'd even get to see living gargoyles - if with different rules than our familiar gargs - showing up in Sunnydale.)

I watched my tape of "Future Tense" today. Probably one of the darkest and weirdest episodes in all "Gargoyles".

The first time that I saw the episode, I thought that the lightning bolt that struck Goliath at the start was some sort of time warp that the skiff had stumbled into (which would explain why they were now 40 years in the future, since they couldn't have stayed long enough on Avalon for that - I'm not enough of a math expert to figure out from the "1 hour in Avalon = 1 day in the outside world" equation how long you'd have to be in Avalon for forty years to go by, but I'm certain that it would have to have been more time than the events of "Ill Met By Moonlight" took up). Of course, we now know the truth. Note that it hits Goliath immediately after he openly wishes to see New York again - which obviously provided Puck with his loophole!

One particularly fun little touch: the Steel Clan robots now all bearing Xanatos's goatee. (Is Puck sick and twisted, or what?)

I've got to thank the people here for pointing out that it's Owen's voice that delivers the "You have violated Manhattan's national sovereignty" message on the PA system. Owen's only appearance in the whole illusion (in light of the link between him and Puck, I wonder if that's significant).

When Xanatos appears on the screen on the Eyrie Pyramid, he initially looks as if he's got three heads (it's really an optical illusion due to the angles of the broadcast screen, but I still think that it's neat).

I've probably mentioned this before, but "Xanatos" was here definitely behaving like a cliched cartoon super-villain for once. (Which Goliath acknowledges when he says "The real Xanatos, at his worst, would never have done what you've done.") He's out to take over the world, for one thing, something which Greg Weisman explained Xanatos would never do for the simple reason that he doesn't need to. He takes over New York City by force, mutates a lot of the population, and reduces the rest to living out on the streets in fear. Again, I can't imagine Xanatos doing that, if for no other reason than that he'd see it as far more to his advantage to have well-fed, well-housed employees in good health, who'd turn out far better products for Xanatos Enterprises than starving, homeless people in poor health. (I recall that Shere Khan made a similar remark once on "Tailspin".) It seems almost as if the series deliberately went for a "conventional show-down between Goliath and Xanatos" before using the real culmination of their conflict through their making peace in "The Gathering" and "Hunter's Moon", to play with the audience's expectations a little.

One of the funniest bits is when Brooklyn and Demona embrace, and not only is Goliath shocked and bewildered, but so is Bronx!

Lexington's portrayal in "Future Tense" seems almost based on the principle of "you become like what you hate". We all know how much Lex has a vendetta against the Pack. And here he's not only become a cyborg like Jackal and Hyena, but if you look closely, he's got markings around one eye that have the same shape as Fox's eye tattoo! (I first spotted that while watching "Future Tense" at the Gathering 2001.) That last bit was a really neat touch.

Broadway comes across as especially touching here. Unlike Brooklyn and Lexington, he's not bitter towards Goliath; all that matters to him is that Goliath finally came home (and he never gave up hope that he would). And he gets the most moving death scene in the entire episode. "Yes, the sun. Can't you see it, Goliath? It's beautiful."

The fight between Xanatos and Alexander strikes me as one of the most memorable battles in the series. (It looks a bit more anime-ish in some ways - of course, high-tech armor has that effect.) I can't help but think that it takes some of the sting out of Alex's blunder in allowing his father to discover where the rebels are hiding when we discover that the real villain was Lexington, who was in the rebels' hide-out all along (and could therefore have wiped them out any time he wanted to in the past 32 years).

One of my favorite little bits: when Brooklyn says, after Demona asks if it's such a good idea to attack the castle, "Unless you've got a more timely solution", and Goliath immediately catches on and pulls his wings over the pouch with the Phoenix Gate to hide it.

One particularly intriguing revelation of Greg's: Xanatos and Hudson's duel was inspired by their confrontation in "The Price" (according to the ramble on "The Price"). Something that I hadn't thought of until he mentioned that. (I'd really like to see his ramble on this episode.)

The fight between Goliath and "Xanatos" is also great (I particularly like the bit where "Xanatos", with an evil smile on his face, turns into some sort of top and is grinding the stone Goliath away, complete with a horrified cry from Elisa).

There's one bit in the episode that's a bit of a cheat to me: when we see Bronx, Claw, and Matt getting disintegrated from Lexington's point of view. Since Lex is part of Puck's illusion, we shouldn't see his p.o.v., but only Goliath's throughout. (On the other hand, I'm not certain how else they could have showed Bronx, Claw, and Matt's deaths in the episode.)

Both Lex and "Xanatos" have the same robotic eyes; I can't help wondering if that was a little foreshadowing of the big revelation about Lexington.

Puck showed some foresight in having Lex get seized by the Thailog Shock Troops in the courtyard.

Of course, we still have a lot of fun with Puck's "Was it a dream or a prophecy?" line, especially in light of the clock tower being destroyed and Alex being born. (And if Greg had done Season Three, we'd have probably seen more of those elements, such as the Ultra-Pack.) Though at least we know that the future won't turn out exactly the way that we saw it in "Future Tense". (I still remember including a few more "Future Tense" elements when writing for TGS, and it was kind of fun in an evil sort of way.)

And Goliath seemingly gets rid of the Phoenix Gate forever. I wonder what he'd have thought when it showed up for Brooklyn in "Timedancer". (Though at least it didn't stay around after taking Brooklyn off on his wild little time-tour.) It'd be almost like the gag about the guy who tries to get rid of the boomerang.

Oh, yes, and let's not forget still the cameo by Chavez's daughter.

I wish that I can remember now my full response to this episode (apart from my initial belief at the beginning that the lightning bolt was a time warp, and that I also thought that the Phoenix Gate was gone for good - which I thought was a pity, since that would mean no more time travel stories, and I rather like them if you get to go into the historical past). How many people, I wonder, the first time that they saw this one, thought that Disney was coming up with a particularly dark and twisted way of ending the series?

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, September 13, 2004 07:32:13 PM
IP: 4.244.18.43

I was watching my copy of "Walkabout" the other day when I noticed that the robotic arm was tagged "WALDO". I take it this is yet another easter egg thrown in by the animation team? ;) I also noticed that Anistasia Renard looked kinda funky for a second when she started to explain the "Grey Goo Senario" to everyone else.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Monday, September 13, 2004 04:35:26 PM
IP: 207.65.41.107

PIT was not one of Greg's ideas. I remember him saying so in a chat a few years back.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, September 13, 2004 03:46:23 PM
IP: 162.84.164.187

CKayote> a "save-the-gargs" group was already being used in TGC, the PIT "People for Interspecies Tolerance" Crew. Whether this was one of Greg's ideas that the new team used, I don't know, but it seems like a good example. As for gov't and other interests, I can think of a few fanfic examples that might find a similar place in a 3rd season:

Religious (ea CM's Harry "The Hammer" Hammerton): Harry was a fanatical Quarryman who saw gargoyles as demons, literally. He even called Elisa the "Dark Madonna" when she was pregnant with Goliath's child. This did a complete 180 during the story "Devil's Night", in which Manhattan literally went to Hell. Harry saw the gargoyles doing what they do best, protecting, and proclaimed them as angels, and came up with a pretty good rationalization to why they would be real angels, "A cute little cherub or a prissy feathery angel the way people show them now could never hold their own
against Hell's Army! Gotta be big and tough, able to take some lumps, like gladiators! We've been so stupid! You're God's servants
just like we are, just like I am!". This train of religious thought might be the end result, but in the beginning, religious groups, especially Western ones (no offense) would likely demonize the gargoyles and at the least be hidden supporters of the Quarrymen.

Governmental (ea the CIA/NSA or Military Industrial Complex): Any Black Ops governmental agency would be crazy not to see the potential of using a gargoyle as a weapon. They look demonic (preying on religious/psychological fears), they are immensely strong (with combat training a gargoyle would be virtually impossible to beat in hand to hand). They would be hard to detect during the day (an enemy patrol during the day would not be looking for a statue, assuming they are not aware of garg biology). Of course, they would have to be manipulated into believing what they were doing was for the good of their community.

Corporate/Cult (ea Xanatos' schemes): Rather self-explanatory. This would include the Illuminati.

Gantros
Monday, September 13, 2004 03:40:14 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Just thought I'd let ya'll know...

I updated my framed version of the comment room. Clickie the namie.. or copy/paste the url:

http://members.fortunecity.com/blueave/s8/

It's been 2 years (or more) since I worked on it.. so that tells you how long I was out of the fandom.. heh

:)


Sorry for the LONG delay in the update, though :D

Patricia Lovelady - [sabre0link@hotmail.com]
Montevallo, AL, USA
Monday, September 13, 2004 02:39:44 PM
IP: 68.212.209.73

I guess what I'd most like to see if Gargoyles has a proper season 3 are more of the other clans around the world (London, Guatemala, Japan) and the Mutates.

Also I wonder how the Q-men would react to the Mutates?

Matt Fews
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:20:04 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Ckayote, This probably would explain why Angie and Bronx broke out of Ice during Eye of the Storm.
Matt Fews
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:11:15 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83


I've personally always figured the 'stone' was actually calcium-based. Calcium-carbonate is what makes seashells and coral reefs, so it is, as Gantros suggested, a good stone alternitive.

As for what I'd like to see in a 3rd season, I would love to see all the stuff everyone else has mentioned.
I'd also like see more of the public reaction outside of the Quarrymen and Travis Marshall. What are the feds going to do, what's the state of New York going to do, what's the city going to do, will they be able work together, etc. etc.
Then there's people: I imagine there'd be save-the-gargoyles groups and other stuff. People do wierd things: I'm having a creativy demon of a Gargoyle cult.

Also: Whatever to happened to Central Park after Fortress 2 crashed?

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, September 13, 2004 11:31:26 AM
IP: 64.192.75.23

Siryn, once again I find myself apologizing to you.

Of course, it would be 'my preciousss' since it has both Greg's (the creator) and Keith's (Goliath) signature on it and therefore makes it a pretty unique collector's item.

Matt Fews
Monday, September 13, 2004 10:34:14 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

11th!
Kristen
VA
Monday, September 13, 2004 10:10:20 AM
IP: 199.249.157.129

10th! On with the show.

:: chorus of Muppets :: "Why don't you get things started?!?"

85 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

Patrick
Monday, September 13, 2004 07:15:43 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

9th!
D. Taina
Monday, September 13, 2004 01:22:18 AM
IP: 172.208.16.39

Eighth.
Leo
Monday, September 13, 2004 01:20:54 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

7TH!!!!
matt
Monday, September 13, 2004 01:07:39 AM
IP: 68.90.74.136

6!

Gantros: We were talking abou that a couple days ago after Todd did his ramble.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:37:13 AM
IP: 64.192.75.23

I just watched "Bushido" on Toon Disney, and at Taro's Theme Park, I noted that one of the castles suspiciously looked like Wyvern. I'd think that Xanatos would be upset that someone was making a replica of his property without his knowledge, or did he know? Also, for my nitpicks, after Goliath lifts Taro off the ground by digging into his chest plate. the damage disappears after GOliath get's zapped.
Gantros
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:23:49 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Gorebash> Does Gore come in here? Yes? Anyway, Gore, saw your journal. Thanks for the comments on my costume. And as for the pic Greg drew? I copped it:) That and the one Karine drew right before it, and the gummi bear one I drew right after his:) *kid grin*
Jade Griffin
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:23:17 AM
IP: 24.205.214.26

........................3rd. My favorite number.

Vin

castle0909
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:20:46 AM
IP: 205.188.116.72

#1, Top 10!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:12:35 AM
IP: 67.14.195.10

Gosh, am I first? That never happens!
Christine
Monday, September 13, 2004 12:11:48 AM
IP: 67.136.137.123