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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending August 1, 2005

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I'm already seeing some of the same old for questions that just waste time....Like how gargoyles "do it". *rolls eyes*
I always have to commend Greg on his patience to keep Ask Greg going when he gets questions like that, being they've been asked a million times over and usually get the same answer over and over again

Click my name for my newest Gargoyles music video!

Hi from the con!

I'm inbetween the banquet and the masqerade. This is the time people get their costumes on and prep for show. This gives me some time to hang here and let you all in on what's going on.

Earlier this morning I hit up the radio play auditions. Thom and Greg watched over the latecomers. Auditions were done off the same copy as every year; which is the same copy used when Greg and company were casting the show back in '93. I took Lex's dialogue and seemed to do okay. The cast sheet would be posted later in the day.

I went to lunch at a place across the highway from the hotel and had myself a pizza. It's a cool place, the table "cloth" is actually a big piece of paper and you are given crayons to draw on it. I was with Marty "Mr. Comic Man" Lund and his wife Lexy. I tried to draw Goliath but Lexy was far more succesful at her attempt.

After lunch I hit up the art show with Lexy to vote. Lots of great stuff there. My favorite (well, second) has got to be Dreamie's bit with Desdemona as Samus from Metroid (at least I assume it's Desdemona.. can't really see the face, but the wings were a giveaway.) and two other characters from the show dressed as the princess from Voltron and... now I'm drawing a blank. (It's really all about the Samus. Anyone who can take merge Gargoyles and Metroid like that owns my vote.)

I put in a couple bids on some silent auction items. $5 for the deck of cards used at the poker tourney and a bid in on an original, colored page from one of the Marvel books, with a companion coloring-instructions page that was given to the colorer. Very cool.

Only problem is I have no idea how the hell I'm going to carry this all with me on the plane if I win. (My bid on Kythera's art piece is still winning as well!)

After the art show I headed to the event suite to see Greg talk about W.I.T.C.H. It was pretty interesting, with Greg providing some fun and interesting details on how the deal to bring him in to do the show took place. I also found the casting sheet for the radio play and saw I was in it.


The radio play is a script for show Greg and co-writer/(creator?) Samuel Bernstein. They haven't been able to sell the show yet, so Greg thought it'd be fun to do that this year. The name of the show is "Doc Shakespeare". It was a fun script, had lots of laughs, and I think went over really well when we performed it for everyone.

I'd pass by Thom Adcox (who was also in the radio play!) throughout the day and he'd give me grief for losing at poker. That was a bit surreal. (WTF, Lex is goofing on me!?) But it was cool.

The banquet was a buffet-style with all sorts of really good stuff. Dessert will be served during the masquerade (a great idea!).

Well anyways, that's what's up right now. Didn't really film anything today, so I won't have much to share. But I'll be all over the masquerade. :)

have fun!

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

My Grandfather (Not the one who died and fought in WW2, but another one) was in Vegas this weekend on business. I was toally jealous of him. I just found out today. I'm still pouting.

On the other hand I won $200 on a sports lottery (Sport Select), so I'm in a pretty good mood right now. But still pouting.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

I'm back and I just finished posting my Con Journal to Con Archives. Click and look in the Con Journal section to read!

And don't forget to post your journal too!

kathy - [staff@gargoyles-fans.org]
The Gathering Staff - it's not a job, it's an adventure!

Good news about the comic book. So now we know that it's definitely going to happen. I'd say more, but I want to wait until tomorrow, when the room will be cleared.
Todd Jensen

Todd : I know that I remembered the eggs from "Awakening", but I wasn't expecing to ever see them again.

*still* no con journals and pictures?

come on now! Can't leave us in the lurch that way! *pouts*

The 9th annual Gathering of the Gargoyles - Be there or... be there in spirit

Oop, sorry, didn't see that last thing Gorebash said. Well sometime the month of December again. I can deal with that.

Stay tuned for the commercial. Bigger and better then the last I hope

Click my name for my newest Gargoyles music video!

Wingless>Thanks. The season 1 clips are from the DVD. The problem is using wmv. I prefer wmv, because when I have used avi and mpg, it tends to take a long time to download for dial-up, to the point that its nearly impossible. So the loss of quality is done simply for the dial-up users. Also wmv saves to a small file size, I don't want to use up all my webspace anytime soon. Season 2 VHS are slowly dieing :( I've tried downloading some episodes, looking for better quality video, but it's never a guarentee I can find better quality. But I get by copying copyright DVDs for video making very easily *devious look*

Dudette> Thanks

Any ideas on when Season 2 will be released? I am making a DVD commerical for that as we speak.

Click my name for my newest Gargoyles music video!

Siren> Wicked video!!!

"SO get on with it already" even.
Can't type this morning. *rolls eyes*

The 9th annual Gathering of the Gargoyles - Be there or... be there in spirit

Hi everyone!

Just a little update from the admin who staid home:
We had a little bug in the setup of the conarchives photo album which caused the images not to show up on the page. Took me some time to find and fix the error. Now everything's set and waiting for Gathering 2005 pictures to be uploaded to get on with it already, or ELSE! :-P

The 9th annual Gathering of the Gargoyles - Be there or... be there in spirit

........................Gore, those videos are awesome. It's like actually being there. The one with the cast and crew was funny, great to watch. Keep em coming.



Hi Guys.

Intense evening. Earlier Saturday we had a panel that included Dan Vado who owns/runs Slave Labor Graphics, the publisher of the new Gargoyles DVD. Dan seems like a very cool guy. He seems really enthusiastic of publishing the Gargoyles book. He's less a "is this going to make money" and more a "is this a good product" kind of guy. Very cool.

Some interesting bits. The license deal with Disney is for 3 years. The book will be bi-monthly, so with the current deal, we could see up to 18 issues. What happens in 3 years? If we're going strong, we renew it.

Right now there is no specific timeline for the first issue's release. The most specific we got was maybe between January and June of 2006. There are no scripts ready. Greg's still working on how he's going to handle the first issue. The only artwork done for the book so far is that promo piece on display at the SD Comicon (drawn by Greg Guler, colored by SLG).

SLG will (for the most part) handle/decide what artists will draw the issues. Greg Guler (character design from the development of the original show) might be doing the covers, but nothing is definate yet.

What is definate (and Dan Vado said this himself) is that the book WILL come out, no matter what.

The book will be available through normal comic book channels (your local shop?) as well as amazon.com, b&n.com, etc. Greg talked about how we will want to do a mass-buy the day the comic is released from amazon like we did with the DVD.

Dan Vado showed interest in "sponsoring" the 2006 con and, if the book comes out sooner than June, we might see an advertisement in the book for the con. There are people also looking at cross-promotion with the DVD.

Greg said he worked on the DVD extras for Season 2: Volume 1 and they're already done. So nothing on the DVD about the book, but maybe Volume 2. (Who knows?).

The ink on this deal is still very, very fresh. A lot of details aren't ironed out, but we (the fandom) will absolutely be told as soon as a release date is figured out.

Greg characterized the book as being the season 3 he wanted to do.

What about the old Marvel book? Well we probably won't see any of the characters introduced in the Marvel book. However, Greg was asked to write a script for that series that never got published. He's still got it, so they (SLG/Creature-Comics.Com) will be looking into whether or not Disney owns that script, and if so, Greg might take it and use it (or at least bits of it) in the new series (since it's already written, hah).

A small clarification on the DVD release, probably sometime in December. There probably is a known release date, but Disney won't announce it yet.


In other news, the charity poker tournament was held tonight. Greg, Thom Adcox, Chris Rogers (gargoyles-fans.org, 2005 con chair), Marty Lund (the guy without whom this comic book would not have happened), Tony, Adam, and me. Adam and me bought our way in :).

It was pretty intense, lasting a little over 2 hours. We sat around a circular table and had a hotel dealer handle the cards. (The cards and chips used for the tournament will be up for auction tomorrow.) The game was no-limit Texas Hold'em with low/high blinds that increased over time and no ante.

(I was way in over my head.)

Greg had been given a "Poker for Idiots" book earlier in the week. This would be his first Texas Hold'em game. Thom Adcox didn't seem to know what was going on and would just keep throwing chips down (most dangerous player ever).

Chris Rogers was the force at the table. Tony and Marty went out early. Greg was pulling some nasty all-in stuff. Adam went out. I have the privilege of taking out Thom Adcox. It was down to me, Chris Rogers, and Greg when we called a break. We switched out all the $100 chips for $500 as the low/high blinds went to $1000/2000. I was in last at the moment with $10,000, Greg was in second, and Chris Rogers had a nice lead.

After the break I pulled the trigger a bit early and hit all-in a few times, with Greg and Chris folding. That left me with maybe a $1000 profit on each hand. Slow going. Eventually I went all in, and Chris and Greg followed. Chris took the pot, Greg beat my hand, leaving me in third place overall.

It was very fun. There was talk of maybe doing a full-out tournament at future cons.

Some highlights included Greg beating out Thom's pocket aces with 2-pair. At first, when Thom flipped his cards, the crowd went nuts figuring he won. Then Greg flips his, showing 2 pair. Very fun.

Later in the game, just before the break, I had a moment where Greg, Chris and myself were checking on each round. The flop hit and Greg smiled a bit, but he checked. I was suspicious. We all check on the next card, then (the "river" is it?) the next card drops and Greg goes to raise 5000. Chris folds, but not before I have to decide to call Greg on it.

In my heart, I knew he had something. But the crowd got to me and I called, and Greg beat my hand. At that point I was down to $10,000. That's going to drive me nuts for the next few days. I *knew* he had a king in his hand to match the king that hit in the flop. I just knew it. But I went and called his raise anyways. *sigh*

It was fun. :)

After that we hit up the ice cream place inside the casino. (I had a scoop of bubble gum with jimmies (sorry, sprinkles). We hit the arcade for a bit, then hit the jacuzzi/pool.

A fun evening all around.

Tomorrow will have the banquet and masquerade. We'll also have the radio play. All I know right now is the radio play is _not_ an episode of Gargoyles. I'll be up early to audition as I missed today's auditions.


There's probably a ton I'm missing, but that's why we need everyone's con journals. conarchives.gargoyles-fans.org

I'll see if maybe I've got one or two more videos to pull off my camera tonight before I go to bed, so check the link later.

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

Siren-Cool Video. Very nice work! You've got good copies, but you can still see transition between the DVD and the video tape copies. My question is, do you not have trouble making copies from the DVDs? are they not copy protected somehow?

Also going through gathering withdrawl,considering I went the last 2 years in a row. Though I made it to LA once...it just seems so far off to make it a second time. Time will tell I suppose.


*wishes she could have attended the Gathering*

Hey Gorebash! Give Greg a big kiss for me! Thanks!

Click my name for my newest Gargoyles music video!

So now we know how far the second Gargoyles DVD will get up to. It'll be great to have the series on DVD boosted up to "Kingdom", particularly since that'll include more biggies ("Metamorphosis", "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", "The Mirror", "Eye of the Beholder", "City of Stone", "The Price", "Avalon", and "Shadows of the Past" among them). I'm also glad that there'll be commentaries, and hope that the multi-parters will get them.

It means having to wait a while longer before we get to see "Future Tense", "The Gathering" or "Hunter's Moon" on DVD - and let's hope that sales are good enough to justify the second half of Season Two coming out - but you can't have everything - and what we'll be getting will be worthwhile.

I'm looking forward to any fresh information about the comic, as well, if Greg says anything about it there.


The mysterious fish-thief who made off with all the fish that was for the fish fry in the Station 8 Comment Room last night has been identified thanks to security footage. Police have been instructed to look out for a small, skinny creature with large pointed ears and fangs. And they've just apprehended one.

*Lexington is being escorted off to a police wagon, while protesting, "No, no, you don't understand! You've got the wrong guy! I don't even like fish!" The police ignore him entirely, load him up, and drive off with him, while Gollum watches from an alley with an evilly amused smile upon his face. *

Todd Jensen

I meant I hope commentary is on at least those 7 stories.
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

One thing I forgot to mention. I was at a panel this morning with Greg Weisman and Dave Schwartz. Dave Schwartz did storyboards for Gargoyles and has done of a ton of work in other animated projects since. He seems like a really cool guy. I hope I get to hear some more from him this weekend.

Greg and Dave talked a bit about how a project goes from development, to pre-production, to production. Very interesting.

They talked a bit about the current state of the industry and how, while it's getting better, it's still nowhere near what it was like back when Gargoyles was being produced.

Greg has a panel on Monday (that sadly I'm going to miss) where he'll talk about some of what he's currently working on in private development (ie not for a studio).

All for now.

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

So yesterday I talked about breaking even on $5 at a slot machine.

Well this morning, on my way to the first panel for the day, I decided to drop the 5 into a video poker machine at 25 cents a bet. So I get a few pairs, I lose a few, whatever. Then I nail it. 4 aces, with the 5th card being one of a special group that gave me a payout of... $100!!! On a 25 cent bet!! Incredible.

There's a cel dealer here at the con and he's got one cel of Demona that has a coloring error, giving her blue eyes (with black pupils!). It's an awesome cel, but it's going for $400. I tried downing a few more bucks into a video poker on the way to lunch today but... no luck. I really want that cel too. There's actually about a million cels the guy has that I want. It's easily the biggest collection of Gargoyles cels in one place (... well, aside from BrooklynX's collection).

Radio play auditions start in about 30minutes. I'll try to score a couple videos and put them online before I take off for that.

I know I ought to put all this stuff on conarchives.gargoyles-fans.org but I got to keep something "exclusive" for this place, even if it is my own suck-ass reporting/videos/etc. Hah!

No worries.

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

Well, 26 episodes into Season 2 falls out at "Kingdom" being the last episode of Part 1, if what we've heard is true. Both CoS and Avalon are in this set and at least those 7 episodes get commentary.
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Gorebash informed:
"Season 2 is on its way on DVD. Maybe late this year. It will have 26 episodes over 3 discs. There will be commentary tracks, but Greg couldn't reveal the details."

I'll be okay if we have to wait until after Xmas to get the first part of Season 2. I'm just relieved that it won't be broken up into more than two parts. Three or four volumes would be too much of a risk. I'm very confident we can get the rest of the series now. And I know it's almost universally hated, but I'd like a separate release of The Goliath Chronicles. I've only seen two or three of those episodes, I'm too curious not to buy it. Whether Greg decides to feature "The Journey" at the end of Season 2 or at the beginning of Season 3, it'll be interesting to see where it lands.

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]

Greetings from the Gathering 2006 con staff in Las Vegas!

We're having a blast here in Sin City, and we've decided to share some of the love with everyone out there who couldn't be here this year. For a limited time, EVERYONE can take advantage of our special early pre-registration rates for next year's convention. To register online, click the link below or visit:


This special offer is valid through the end of the Gathering 2005 weekend. Payments by credit card or Paypal are accepted, so register now and save!

Con reports and pictures when I get home next week!

Patrick Toman
"I have been denied everything, even my CONVENTION!!!" - Keith David

Good morning from the Gathering! I'm sorry this is late, but it's been a tad busy here! You can be a part of it all (virtually) by logging on to http://conarchives.gargoyles-fans.org the new GATHERING CENTRAL. Use the FORUM, read attendee CON JOURNALS (as they have time to post them) and see their COPPERMINE PHOTOALBUMS. You may even get a glimpse of THOM'S PANTS (now available for auction!)

We miss you all!


Net connection is a bit flaky so if I don't get videos up tonight I'm sorry. I had expected to put them up during "free time" but I never really had any "free time".

Opening ceremonies were the usual fair, except that Greg presented 2 new videos. You've seen the Gargoyles pitch on the DVD, ja? It's one of the videos Greg shows as every Gathering (but not this year). This year Greg found an even older pitch that had been done for the show using even older concept art. The whole thing was narrated by Jim Cummings. I thought it was really cool. The second new video is one put together by Vashkoda, the lady behind Gargoyles News Central. A few years ago a copy of "The Last", an episode of Team Atlantis Greg wrote. "The Last" was never made as the show was canceled, but before the plug was pulled, the voice track had been completed. So at the con a few years ago a copy of this voice track along with storyboards and a copy of the script were up for auction. IRC Goliath, Wingless, Vash, Sean put in to get the thing and they win it.

Cut to today. Vash has taken the storyboards, filled in some bits herself, and has a sort of lieca (spelling?) reel for the first act. It was very cool. It's going to become a con-exclusive video, like the "Bad Guys" lieca reel.

Season 2 is on its way on DVD. Maybe late this year. It will have 26 episodes over 3 discs. There will be commentary tracks, but Greg couldn't reveal the details.

The Gargoyles comic: no new news except that, yes, it's on its way. Should learn all about it at tomorrow's panel specifically about the comic.

Marty Lund, the man who put the whole deal together, got Fan of the Year. Easily the best choice, and well deserved.

Greg talked a little bit about the comic book. I don't think it was anything we don't already know. No information on how the book will start, just that it's picking up right after "Hunter's Moon" and it will stick to the ideas he laid out in his version of "The Journey". In terms of the "maturity" of the content, he doesn't expect it to be much different from what we see on TV. It's not like we're going to get an "adult" Gargoyles. Greg seems to want a book that will be accessible for all ages.

Thom Adcox's pants will be up for auction this year.

I've put in a bid on a piece of Kythera's art.

There were a couple spots open for the charity poker tournament because a couple guests were not able to make it this year. Chris Rogers (con chair, MC, "the man") announced they were open to fans for few bucks. Since there were only two, someone immediately jumped in on it. Not to be left out I yelled that I wanted in so... I think I'm in. Should be fun.

Had a big steak and a couple glasses of Guinness.

And at 1am-ish this morning, walking back to my room from the blue mug, I threw a $5 into a slot machine. After being down to my last play TWICE, I nailed a couple wins in a row to break even. So that was it.

Lots of crap I'm leaving out.

If you haven't already, go check out conarchives.gargoyles-fans.org. This is the site being pimped around the con. People attending the con are asked to put journals, images, etc.. up on that site as it happens. So check that out.

Damn I'm tired.


And for those that don't have quicktime installed, or don't want to:


Uses Media Player Classic (looks like windows media player 6.4, but has alot more functionality). Free, and open source. :)

Vertigo1 - [md2389@gmail.com]
"I leave my personality in tightly coiled piles on the lawn!" - Brian (Family Guy)

I've found a shortcut to mushrooms, if anyone was looking for them.

Tee Hee!

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

For those of us who couldn't make it to the Gathering but are still in the comment room tonight, gather around. I have a special treat. A fish fry! Bring in the fish!

*A few extras wheel in a trolley with a large covered dish atop it. Todd lifts off the cover, to discover nothing but a large pile of fish bones.*

All right! What happened to the fish? Who ate the fish that was supposed to be for the people in the comment room?

*From off-stage, a low muttering sounds, "Nice juicy fisshes, my precious! We eats them all!" Todd listens to the off-stage speaker for a moment, then shrugs bewilderedly, turns back to everyone else, and says:*

It seems as though we'll never know who the fish-thief was. Sorry about that.

Todd Jensen
Celebrating the Gathering of the Gargoyles 2005 and the 51st anniversary of the "Fellowship of the Ring"

Gorebash>>( SELECT table.id as id from .... ) order by id
I'm but a novice at SQL, but that doesn't appear to be a complete statement (and no, I'm not referring to the from ....). The order by... clause should be part of a SELECT statement, and I don't think it can be part of the statement in the parentheses, since it is outside of said parentheses.

Does the ( SELECT table.id as id from .... ) subquery return a single value, or a column with multiple rows?
Also, does the full query look like
SELECT ..., ( SELECT table.id as id from .... ) order by id
SELECT ... FROM ... , (SELECT table.id as id from ...) order by id
or something of that nature? Could you post the *entire* SQL query?

Also, I still hold that since no *questions* should be submitted at this time, *any* questions should be treated , all things being equal, as if they never existed. It is as if their submitters encountered a closed queue. However, all things are not equal (you may have to get Greg's permission, it's a little late in the game to change the rules, etc. etc.). Still, is there anyway you can give journal submissions higher priority than questions?

JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"

I agree with Duncan! Lots of pictures please!

Remember to stay safe and keep a check on your buddy. No one wants to go home broke.

If you make it idiot proof, they will build a better idiot.

Just a heads up that since I've got 'net access and a DV cam with me, I'll be uploading videos from the con while I'm here. The location where they will be stored can be found by clicking on my name below.

Right now is just a quick, no-sound video of what the view from my hotel window is like. Very nifty.

I've only got an iBook with iMovie here, so all these videos are going to be in .mov (quicktime). I also have no exp. with iMovie so files might go a little bigger in size than perhaps they should be. I'll keep playing and try to find the right size/quality setting (unless someone here might know the right setup.)


Greetings to all who made it to the con! Have a great time! And take a lot of pictures and write up all that is happening this weekend! I'll sic Bronx on you if you don't, so there! :-P

Gorebash> Yup, Kythera's work is awesome, isn't it? Seeing all the great artwork is one thing I'll hate missing the most this year. That and chatting with all you guys.
Concerning SQL: You can ask me, I've done a bit of SQL wrestling already. If I can't help you, Guandalug probably can.

The 9th annual Gathering of the Gargoyles - Be there or... be there in spirit

Woo! Greetings from the con! Things just got underway, but the mug-a-guests for today are limited to 10 people and I got in late to sign up so I'm killing time. Might hit up the "writing that flows" panel at 1:30. Got a peek at Kythera of Anevern's portfolio (some/most of which will be up in the art room). Damn. I can't believe how ufcking good her stuff is. I'll probably throw up a silent auction bid or two for a piece of her art. But I've got a feeling there's going to be a big line for her work.

JJ & Vin> Greg has always been adamant about not deleting posts. I need to get the new queue system up and running asafp and then just re-mod the incomming questions (all of them!) so we can sort them out. The SQL I wrote is turning out to be crap though and to get both my test box and the production site (s8) in sync, I need to look at reworking my sql.

Damned UNIONs. Any SQLers out there?

( SELECT table.id as id from .... ) order by id

The above worked in MySQL 4.0something. But in the latest incarnation, that broke. Okay. So I changed it to...

( SELECT table.id as id from ... ) order by table.id

and that works fine in the _NEW_ 4.0x MySQL, but in the older versions it breaks. WTF.

I know i know, wtf with the parentheses. Because questions/answers and rambles are in two separate tables and I want to bring them together when I perform searches.

I dunno. Maybe I pull two separate queries, pull out the dates of each into an array. sort that. and then loop over the dates and pull out the ramble or question/answer from the separate sql results as needed.

bleh. how do u do it, sqlers?

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

I hope Slave Labor Graphics comes to the Canadian Comic/Sci-fi Expo in Toronto next month. Would love to see more pre-production work and maybe commission a sketch off of the artist. I know at least one Slave Labor employee will be there, artist/writer Jhonen Vasquez (Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, Invader Zim, etc).

Gantros said, regarding a modernized "Ultimate X-Men" style Gargoyles...

"Instead of being influenced by a Western film, Broadway is influenced by hyper-realistic videogames (like GTA3 or Splinter Cell), causing him to accidentally shoot Elisa."

While I can understand that being the modern equivalent of what we had in "Deadly Force" (though even in 1994, video games probably would've been a more timely-for-the-kids catalyst than western and gangster flicks), I wouldn't want any re-imagining of Gargoyles to use the idea. Video games already get enough heat, the industry doesn't need more. I know it wouldn't be intended as games-cause-violence, just like how Greg and his writers weren't trying to demonize movies...but I just wouldn't wanna give any watch groups or overzealous senators any more ammunition.

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]

........................Ask Greg>>> Gore, rather than just deleting the questions, why not give them an answer... Is the show coming back? CHECK ARCHIVES, THE ANSWER IS IN THERE...
It's your site, I'm sure you can do whatever is necessary to help Greg out. If you know the question has been asked before, direct them where to find it... THE ARCHIVES. The person who submitted the question probably isn't going to look for their response anyway.



Well, my fear has been realized. Already somebody has submitted a question about the DVD - which will receive a natural answer via its release long before it reaches Greg's eyes.

GANTROS - I doubt that the "updated Gargoyles" idea would work, simply because I don't think that the series has reached the sort of stature as yet where you can do "continuity reboots" of that nature. DC and Marvel can do it, but they have super-heroes who are part of the "pop culture sub-consciousness", so to speak. "Gargoyles" hasn't reached that level of recognition as yet.

On to "Avalon Part Two", which I watched this afternoon.

I still get a kick out of the Archmage's time loop, especially in watching the Archmages interact with each other. Seeing the enhanced Archmage getting increasingly driven up the wall over his former self's slowness is a real hoot. "If you don't know, don't guess!"

Not to mention that I particularly smile over the Archmage admitting that he'd never worked out over what he was going to do with the Grimorum, the Eye of Odin, and the Phoenix Gate when he got his hands on them. Not very much foresight there. His future self even has to prod him into coming up with the idea of conquering the world (and that's such an obvious goal for a super-villain - especially a cliched one like the Archmage - that it makes the original Archmage seem all the dimmer for not being able to come up with it on his own).

One of the real highlights comes when the enhanced Archmage tells the Weird Sisters in 1020, "Meet me again in 975 years", the original Archmage gasps, "975 years?", and the enhanced Archmage promptly glowers at him.

One of the biggest shocks that I ever had in the series came when I first saw this one and the Archmage eats the Grimorum. Now, it isn't until Part Three that the Grimorum is gone for good, but the Archmage eating it seemed to me like the end of the Grimorum already, as it was. That book had been around since the beginning of the series, cropping up even when it wasn't being used (as when Elisa, Hudson and Broadway collect it from Owen in "Enter Macbeth") and now it's gone.

Another big laugh that I get over the Archmage time loop is when the "first enhanced Archmage" disappears to head off to 984 and start the time loop all over again, and the other "enhanced Archmage" says, "Finally! I thought he'd never leave!" (Greg has a "tie-in remark" on that in his ramble for this episode, where he comments that the real reason why the two Archmages can't continue working together - alongside the time loop - is that they're both too arrogant.)

We get the first mention of the Sleeping King, which excited me from the start, since I knew the significance that Avalon had in legend. I was full of anticipation as soon as I heard that name (and wasn't disappointed in Part Three, either).

A little something that I caught this time around: after the Archmage's initial attack, we catch a glimpse of Gabriel helping a wounded Ophelia along, looking concernedly at her. I can't help but suspect that it's a deliberate hint about their being mates (which Greg's revealed to us at "Ask Greg"). And one that almost everybody must have missed in light of all the fan-beliefs that Angela and Gabriel were a couple.

We also get a few other nice little character bits, such as the first hint about Tom and Princess Katharine being a couple and the Magus being sad about it, and the Magus continuing to feel useless, but Katharine refuses to believe that. All leading in to the epic conclusion in Part Three....

Todd Jensen

Gorebash: <<Ask Greg: Can't really limit it to just con journals. If we did that the only way to ensure only con journals came in would be to delete non-journal posts. Is that fair?>>
If you give an appropriate amount of warning, then yes, I would think that to be eminently fair. The queue is not ready for normal questions yet. Right now, it should only be used as a repository for Gathering journals. Is this not what you, Todd, and the others are requesting?

Still, it may be too late to do anything without being unfair to people.

JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"

I've discovered that it's lots of fun to sleep in an airport. That's what I get for flying home one day and flying out two days later... They claimed there was bad weather in Boston (although I never saw anything more than a few sprinkles and some light-colored clouds) and delayed my flight for three hours, making me miss my connection and leaving me stranded in Detroit. Having never slept in an airport before, it was quite an experience. Then they lost my luggage this morning; they had all night to transfer it to the right plane, how did it get lost? But it's here now, and so am I, and I slept all day so I'm relatively awake now.

Still, thank goodness my flight tomorrow is nonstop to Vegas! See you all there :)

Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]

For all who are going to the Gathering - have a safe journey, and have lots of fun! ^_^
The Sadistic Cow
My friends say I should act my age. What's my age again?

*looks in at the soon to be nearly empty comment room*
Wow... this is going to be odd. I'd usually just compare this time to other times the Gathering's happened and I was stuck at home, but seeing as I only joined the fandom last year... that's not going to happen.

Well, seeing as most people are probably leaving today for the Gathering, and there will be many with no internet access... I'm saying it anyway.
I hope everyone has/had a safe trip there, and remember to limit yourself on the gambling! :D

Everyone's entitled to be stupid, but you're abusing the privilege!

Twenty-five years ago, when I was no more than a hatchling, I vaguely remember watching a TV movie about the easter bunny being replaced or something along those lines.

The only thing besides the above was this one line from it or so I think it was: "Are you an aardvark, so vark aard", Am I correct in assuming this and have any of you have a copy of it on VHS/DVD.

Matt Fews
'The turkey' s just my room-mate' Chutney FOTP

This final day of the countdown is coming to you live from Los Angeles, California!

1 day left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick Toman
"I wish they all could be California.... 'goyles!" - with apologies to the Beach Boys

I recently got into the Ultimate Marvel Universe of comics and had a thought that it owuld be interesting if the original animated series was redone in comic format using modern issues similar to that done in the Ultimate universe, such as:

Instead of The Pack being a staged Pro Wrestling-like TV show, it's more like a reality show, where criminals pay their community service if they can evade the Pack for a certain amount of time. Think American Gladiators meets Manhunt (the Rockstar Videogame)

Instead of being influenced by a Western film, Broadway is influenced by hyper-realistic videogames (like GTA3 or Splinter Cell), causing him to accidentally shoot Elisa.

I can't think of anythin else at the moment, but you get the idea...

"As with all things, darkness falls for thee..."

I'd like to add something on to my plea regarding "Ask Greg" (re the queue being open). Not only "Do not submit a flood of frivolous questions", but also "Please do not - at least, until further notice - ask Greg about the Season Two DVD or the Gargoyles comic book at Ask Greg".

The reason for this is simple. At present, the queue is so heavily backed up that it would probably take almost two years for Greg to reach those questions. By that time, the Gargoyles products in question would have already come out and thus the answer would be a moot one. You're more likely to get the answer to those particular questions by waiting and being patient than by asking Mr. Weisman now.

Todd Jensen

Ask Greg: Can't really limit it to just con journals. If we did that the only way to ensure only con journals came in would be to delete non-journal posts. Is that fair?

I'm going to try and finish up the back-end queue system in a couple weeks. I was trying to get it done before this so Greg could get con journals asap... but my SQL is such junk right now that I need to fix it before I can finish up the queue system. :\

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

Ask Greg>> I wonder if you could limit submissions to those related to the Gathering. This is a special occasion, after all.

The Price>> Good comments concerning Hudson, Xanatos and Owen. Can't add to that at this time.

However, I will note that I experienced the "mourning" of Hudson through Brooklyn. Remember his half-uttered lament that he never spent as much time as he should have with the old warrior, the one he immediately retracted, replacing it with a more generic "he will be missed" sentiment? That line makes me think of the questions about my heritage that I never asked my late grandmother.

It seems such a shame that we don't see Hudson and Brooklyn interact more often after this (aside from "Kingdom").

JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"

MARTY - Thanks for the news about Creature.Com. It sounds very exciting indeed.

I'm looking forward to the news from the Gathering 2005 when folks get back from Las Vegas next week.

Watched my tape of "Avalon Part One" today. A few thoughts on it.

I find Bronx's behavior here rather amusing, the way that he whines so much about being left behind at the clock tower, and gets excited about Tom.

I'd really like to know what book it was that Goliath stayed home to read. Pity that we'll never know.

This probably isn't the ideal time to ask this question, with so many people heading off to the Gathering and presumably having iffy Internet access, at best, but how many of you were expecting to hear from the eggs again (or even remembered them)? I know that I wasn't; I'd assumed that they were long since gone. It was a big surprise to have them resurface. And I liked the weaving of Scottish history as in Constantine murdering Kenneth as part of their resurfacing. I even looked up all that I could on Kenneth and Constantine at the local libraries afterwards.

Constantine comes across as all the more cunning in how he sets up a convincing reason for meeting with Kenneth in the drying-room: it'll be better to have Finella turn down his proposal in private, rather than in front of his court, which could humiliate him. He actually makes it sound anything but suspicious - a logical way for Finella to refuse the king without costing him his dignity. Finella becomes all the more interesting in that her reason for helping Princess Katharine to escape is not out of sympathy for her, but anger over Constantine first using her to get the throne, and then abandoning her once she'd outlived her usefulness to him.

I could say more, but I'll wait until tomorrow.

Todd Jensen

........................Approximately 4 days till everyone gets back from the Gathering. By Monday I'll be expecting some news on the release of Season 2 of Gargoyles on DVD.

Have fun everyone.



Battle Beast> Bet your Grandfather would be proud of you!

Thanks, Jen.

Oh, and just to let you folks know, Jen and Patrick have been indispensible in getting this site a server home for the immediate future.

So if you see them running around at the Gathering, you can add another item to the "thank you" list of things they do to help you, the Gargoyles fans.

Marty Lund - [lundmart@comcast.net]
CreatureComics - visit us at http://www.creaturecomics.com

Marty - The site looks great and I'm sure everyone is dying to see more! Looking forward to seeing you at the convention!
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson

Ask Greg is open to questions again.

Please keep your questions to a minimum as we've got a 2-year back-log as it is. AG is open primarily to take in con journals.

I'll be leaving for Vegas tomorrow. Hope everyone has fun!

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

Todd> Good follow up. Actually, My Grandfather was treated like this... my grandpa was the smartest man I knew; he was 101 when he... ...people treated him like he was stupid which he was far from. Hell, he could scuba dive, was a master carpenter, flew 39(!) bombing raid over germany, could bulild anything out of wood and could make a microwave over out of a shoe box, two pipe cleaners and a battery.

I miss him terribly.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Hey folks,

I just wanted to let you know that CreatureComics.com is now up and running. I'm still in the thick of developing the page, but most of the sections are there. I'm hoping that throughout August I'll be able put some meat on the site's bones in terms of content - Gathering Reports, Guler sketches, and hopefully some business related news as well.

I've also put together a related Yahoo! Group that I'm hoping can kick off once people get back from the Gathering. If you want to sign up for that, you can find it at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/creaturecomics/

Thanks for your support!

Marty Lund - [lundmart@comcast.net]
CreatureComics - visit us at http://www.creaturecomics.com

I'm flying out early tomorrow morning, can't wait!
I'll catch everyone who's going there, everyone else - keep the CR warm while we're gone :D

Currently in Florida, soon to be in Vegas, going to California to recover :D

BATTLE BEAST - Good comments on Hudson (and the elderly in general). One thing which you might have mentioned also is that Goliath is one person who definitely doesn't consider Hudson useless in the least. In the flashback sequences in "Long Way Till Morning", while Demona repeatedly argues that Hudson is too old to continue serving as leader, Goliath speaks up on behalf of him, saying "His age brings wisdom". Goliath chooses Hudson to accompany him in the pursuit of the Vikings in "Awakening", on account of the old gargoyle's fine tracking skills. In "Upgrade", Hudson is Goliath's initial choice for second-in-command, though Hudson immediately points out that one of the trio would be a better choice, since Hudson's already been clan leader.
Todd Jensen

Heading off the to airport in about 15 minutes. Whether you're traveling or not, everyone have a safe and happy weekend!

2 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

"I'm leaving on a jet plane...." - John Denver

Todd> Can do!

THE PRICE, My fav Episode> Great animation. The best thing about this episode is that it doesn't just tell the characters that Hudson has a place in the Clan and isn't useless, it also shows us that. so often, Hudson is left at the Clocktower watching TV while the others are off having adventures. This episode shows Hudson to be a capable and wise warrior. i mean, he single handedly "defeated" Xanatos and Owen and taught him a lesson in the process.

"The Price" shows us what humans really think of the elderly... as doddering old fogies who don't know anything and can't do any but solve crosswords and watch "Wheel of Fortune".

Xanatos wants Hudson to "test" the cauldron because he belives he's usless to his clan. Not true.

Hudson is far from "old." He is EXPERIANCED. WISE.

Native Americans valued their elderly because they were the ones that tought the old ways of life; stories about their belifs (GODS), how to hunt, Etc. The wisemen of the tribe were the storytellers who passed down the ledgends and stories.

When the white man came to the new world, they brought disease, which desimated the elderly population. With so many elderly deaths, much of the olds ways not yet passed on down the line were lost.

Much is the same with the Gargoyles. Hudson is the last of the "old" generation. All of his siblings were destroyed, so only he can pass on the stories of the old ways.

Xanatos looks like one of those who would just throw thier old relative in a "home" rather than take the time to care for them. Maybe not with his father, though.

Hudson isn't stupid, either, and this point is showed very well. He uses his own skin to free himself, and he shows Xanatos a thing or two. Now Xanatos doesn't make the same mistake twice, so he won't try to "use" Hudson agian.

Another thing I like about "The Price" is that they showed that, at sunrise, a Gargoyle could be in very real danger. This is shoen when Broadway, being chased by the MacBeth robot, turns to stone in mid-flight. Elisa has only seconds to save him.

This serves to state a great point that no matter how internal their insticts, how much they know that sunrise is comming, not every Gargoyle is going to be safly on a perch a sunrise.

Lastly, the look Goliath gives Hudson after Macbeth throws the Sparkly Dust on him. I call the look "quizzical"
but it's definatly weird. I love it.

That's My Two Cents.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

I have a request for everyone in this comment room. Greg Weisman has just announced at "Ask Greg" that the queue will be opening up again so that people can post their reports on the 2005 Gathering when they get back. My plea is: please do not abuse this! Don't take advantage of the queue being open again to flood "Ask Greg" with lots of questions of the "Why did the show end?" or "What are gargoyles?" or "What's the name of this character?" variety. If you're going to post an actual question as opposed to a Gathering report, please make certain that it's a non-frivolous question that hasn't been asked numerous times before.

Watched my tape of "The Price" today. The one time in Season Two where Xanatos actually is targeting the gargoyles - as opposed to going through the motions of targeting them as part of one of his schemes (as in "Leader of the Pack") or carrying out a scheme that doesn't have anything to do with them but which they wind up getting involved in (as in "Cloud Fathers").

The motive worked, as well. Xanatos's original reason for going after the gargoyles, in "Awakening", couldn't (in my opinion, at least) outlast "Awakening Part Five" since after that, the gargoyles know what Xanatos is really like, and won't be tricked into robbing his competitors for him again. And I doubt that Xanatos could just force them against their wills to do it; gargoyles are way too stubborn for that. "The Price" provided another reason for Xanatos to capture a gargoyle: the necessary guinea pig for testing the Cauldron of Life. (Of course, in a sense, the gargoyles had already been serving as his guinea pigs for some time - in that he was trying out his latest weapons on them.)

Of course, much of the fun in this episode comes from all the misleading elements: it looks as if Hudson was turned to stone when he hasn't, it seems that the reason why Macbeth "returned from the dead" was because of his link to Demona, and instead it's because it's really a Macbeth-lookalike robot. (I thought both of those things the first time that I saw this episode, though I was already getting suspicious of "Macbeth" before the end, since trying to convert the gargoyles into trophies didn't match his motives. Sounds more like what the Pack would want to do.)

Something that I suddenly wondered this time around: what did Elisa tell the guys in the crane who were lifting Broadway back onto the roof?

I wonder if Elisa's saving Broadway's life by shooting loose all those carpets was intended as a "Deadly Force in reverse".

Of course, the biggest element of the episode is the way that it gives us a look into Hudson, Xanatos, and Owen, and what makes them tick - including learning about Xanatos's desire for immortality and why he wants it (though we got a hint of it in "City of Stone"), and Owen's belief in loyal service. And Hudson gets to show again that he's not as over the hill as he fears.

One last little highlight for me: the scene where Xanatos obtains his piece of Hudson's skin still delights me. One reason why it's so hard to dislike the guy.

On a closing note: I still recall with a smile somebody once pointing out here how Bronx was left on his own, unsupervised, for three successive nights in the clock tower, and conjured up an image of the gargoyles finally getting back home after the adventure was over, to discover that Bronx had demolished the place and eaten all the food!

Todd Jensen

To the CR. Okay, I'm sorry. Far as I'm concerned, topic is dead.

I fly out tomorrow, so, to everyone going to the Gathering, see you this weekend. Much looking forward to it :)

Greg Bishansky - [I call bullshit]
"So remember kids, dressing up like Hitler in school, Isn't Cool." - Puffy the Bear

CKayote > Your PDA will need to go through the same scanner that all carry-on baggage goes through. That should not cause it any harm. I've put my laptop through those scanners dozens of times with no ill effects. What you do not want to do is put it in a checked back, where it will be run through a much stronger scanner. Ditto for any other electronics or film.
"Time, time, tickin', tickin' away...." - Don Henley

........................Ok, I have the talking bank that is in the picture that Matt Fews linked to. I won that one on ebay a couple months ago. But I know there is another one (different looking, don't know if it says the same thing). It was on abay a while back, but never got a chance to bid on it.

I have been building my Gargoyles collection for a long time. I guess I could give Goliath his bank. It wasn't that much and I could always find another one, or the other one. Besides, I'd be giving Goliath his bank. Cool. Is there anything else KD wants?

So, Greg, if he really wants it, you can drop me an email.

Hmmm, do you think he would come pick it up in person, j/k.


castle0909 - [castle0909@aol.com]

Why? Why did you have to bring that up again? What were you thinking?

Dammit, thats enough! Enough about that stupid fight! He acted like a moron for spouting that crap, and now its over with. LET IT DIE! There has been enough fighting on this board dammit!
Vertigo1 - [md2389@gmail.com]
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage (Mythbusters)

Greg B, if you check the archives for that week, I believe you'll find that, originally, my exact words were "However it MIGHT have something to do with Book 6's release", I never said that it was definite, you and others simply jumped to conclusions from that point on.
Matt Fews
'The turkey' s just my room-mate' Chutney FOTP

CKayote: As long as you explain that it contains VERY important data, and that it can't go under the scanner because its magnetically sensitive, you should be fine. Also, don't turn it on while you're taking off or landing. That'll keep the anal retentive stewards off your six (if you're unlucky to have any on the plane).
Vertigo1 - [md2389@gmail.com]
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage (Mythbusters)

Airplane question for everyone: I've got a PDA with a bunch of robot chicken and Invade Zim, and some Gargoyles, of course, loaded on it, and I was going to watch it during the flight to Vegas. Does anyone think I won't be allowed to take it on the flight? 'Cause if the airport screener guys take it from me I don't know what I'll do.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Temporaily out of my mind, please leave a message after the beep.

Matt Fews > That's all well and good, but what if the guy doesn't want to sell it. You should have specified what the site was instead of just telling Greg he'll find what he's looking for there. Maybe the owner doesn't want to sell it. You don't know.

On another subject, when are you going to apologise for flooding the CR with your assinine theory on London getting bombed by crazed Harry Potter fans or haters of whatever the hell you said?

Greg Bishansky - [I call bullshit]
"So remember kids, dressing up like Hitler in school, Isn't Cool." - Puffy the Bear

Greg B, Well maybe, but he might be offering to give up some of his collection, after all it will be going to Goliath himself.
Matt Fews
'The turkey' s just my room-mate' Chutney FOTP

Right, finishing packing tonight.
Short flight to London tomorrow.
LONG flight to Vegas Thursday morning :)
Still can't believe we're going to make a Gathering - at last!
See you all there!

MDY - [mdy21940@yahoo.com]

MATT FEWS> Keith is looking for one to buy, as far as I can tell, none of the stuff there is for sale.
Greg Bishansky - [I call bullshit]
"So remember kids, dressing up like Hitler in school, Isn't Cool." - Puffy the Bear

Greg, I know what you're looking for, find it here.
Matt Fews
'The turkey' s just my room-mate' Chutney FOTP

Have a safe flight Patrick! The same goes for anyone else travelling this weekend. Have fun x x

Wow... I never even knew there was such a thing as a talking Goliath bank until I read Greg's comment and went and Googled it. Unfortunately, the search results didn't turn up any that were for sale.

1 day left until I get on a plane for the west coast.
3 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

"Time, time, tickin', tickin' away...." - Don Henley

Watched my tape of "The Cage" this afternoon. A few comments on it.

One thing that stands out to me about this episode still is that Xanatos and Sevarius both get some fun lines in it. Among my favorite are:

SEVARIUS: Nothing is so annoying to me as someone watching over my shoulder. [Elisa enters.] Oh, wonderful, now there's two of you.

XANATOS (to Derek/Talon): He's the scientist. You're just the experiment. [Goliath groggily picks himself up.] Oh, hello, Goliath, almost didn't see you there.

More about the Mutates, of course, including Talon and Maggie's new designs, Fang and Claw getting more characterization, and the move at the end into the future Labyrinth. And a lovely scene in which Talon is reunited with his family, with Goliath watching with a smile from behind the curtain.

And we have Goliath engaging in a well-intentioned kidnapping of Sevarius (I wish that I could remember now whether I was surprised when it turned out to be Goliath rather than Talon), and getting rightly rebuked for it by Elisa.

Don't have much more to say about this episode, unfortunately. I have the feeling that this may be a bit of a slow week, since in just a couple of days, most of the people here will be heading for the Gathering (I won't be there; I don't know how many other people here will be staying home either). But at least there should be a lot of fun news when they return.


I would like to extend a request from Keith David to you. He was wondering how he could get his hands on a "talking Goliath Bank." Keith remembers recording the voice for this bit of merchandise, but has never seen one. I haven't either. He's checked e-bay, with no luck.

Does anyone have one of these that they'd be willing to part with to give to the guy who brought Goliath to life?

Greg Weisman

Just here to drop a safety breifing, as the Army would make us go to before any long weekend. Just make sure all you people getting on planes or driving give yourself plenty of time to get where you're going. Do be careful.

Have a good time, darlins.

If you make it idiot proof, they will build a better idiot.

Just a bit too slow for the top ten this week.

2 days left until I get on a plane for the west coast.
4 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

"Missed it by THAT much." - Maxwell Smart

Tenth ;p!!
WOOHHOOOO!!! Am so happy! Passed my Karate grading yesterday!! YAY!

Wish it was a bit warmer here in the UK! See ya x x x


Greg Bishansky - [I call bullshit]
"So remember kids, dressing up like Hitler in school, Isn't Cool." - Puffy the Bear

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera(at)gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" -- Inkubus Sukkubus

The Sadistic Cow
My friends say I should act my age. What's my age again?


I got a new Ipod Mini today, and damned if it isn't that most confusing thing I've ever tried to use...

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.


I got a new Ipod Mini today, and damned if it isn't that most confusing thing I've ever tried to use...

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Fourth! And will someone please turn down the heat because these 100+ temps are killing me! :P (100+ temps + lots of humidity = not so good for us)
Vertigo1 - [md2389@gmail.com]
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage (Mythbusters)


And I'm actually going to make it to the Gathering! It's like a miracle!

Kaylle - [kaylle@ladyavalon.com]

Greg Bishansky - [I call bullshit]
"So remember kids, dressing up like Hitler in school, Isn't Cool." - Puffy the Bear

Whatever happenned to simplicity?