A Station Eight Fan Web Site
just read the livejournal letter! hilarious.
ironically the only thing that makes me want to read this guy's stories are the fact that they are so terribly hilarious.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no farther." -matt in regards to the recent Ask Greg posts...
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 10:15:55 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
Purplegoldfish: I think my brain just died whilst trying to decipher that. o.O
The Sadistic Cow
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 10:04:47 pm EST from 70.50.217.73
oh yes, i remember him now. kinda reminds me of Galvatron, another trouble-maker we've had in this Room. i guess it keeps the room interesting, lol.
now, what, in terms of fanfic, is MST?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no farther." -matt in regards to the recent Ask Greg posts...
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 9:59:55 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
And Seriously...WTF?
Idril writes...
"hi! I have a question about puck. is he consusly controling owen? like he made himself be owen but deep inside owen is puck actuly thinking puck thoughts but acting like owen. like xanatose has his exosceletin and he wears it, he looks like a robot but he controls it, the exoskeleten dosn't control himself. I mean puck and owen aren't two peaple it's just pucks secret identety sort of. is that right?"
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 9:11:06 pm EST from 152.163.100.14
Lmao! I remember AshX! (back when I was a lurker ;)). and OMG that letter from Aaron is just too freakin' hilarious!
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 9:08:13 pm EST from 152.163.100.14
Matt, his tantrums are on record in the CR archive. Check out the last few weeks of December 2003.
Greg> That LJ entry is in a special folder in my "favorite places" for whenever I need a good laugh. XD
Leo
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 8:01:09 pm EST from 68.231.241.236
Ash X was a troll we had here about a year or so ago who posted under a few aliases. Brooklyn X (not to be confused for Shaun), Macbeth, etc, etc. He wrote some really badly spelled fanfics, one of them got MSTed and he wigged out and sent hate mail, and crap. He was very homophobic, and got into flame wars here about how Dragonball Z was better than anything else.
Aaron sent him an e-mail a while back, and posted it in his LJ. http://justicevoles.livejournal.com/10006.html#cutid1
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 7:38:24 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
who, or what, is Ash-X?
even if this WAS a serious person asking a question they should've come here or to the FAQ's for the answers.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no farther." -matt in regards to the recent Ask Greg posts...
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 7:30:41 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
No way. This has to be spam. <<"Hi i have a question about galith adn elisa. dose xanatose, puck, foxe, macneth, the mutates including derik, the rest of the gargoyles or any one ealse know about Galiths relationship between elisa?">>
One post is full of unbelievable spelling errors, and in the two posts after, those same words are spelled correctly.
(Maybe Idril is Ash-X) >.>
Leo
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 6:57:53 pm EST from 68.231.241.236
<<It doesn't say much for the educational system in this country.>>
And to all you C students, remember, you too can be President.
;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 6:32:02 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
The worst of it is how poorly they're spelled. (Just look at how "which" and "Australia" were misspelled in the example that Matt quoted.) It doesn't say much for the educational system in this country.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 6:24:19 pm EST from 4.244.12.47
ugh, besides P.Gate's funny question, we havn't had a good post on Ask Greg in days... someone just crapped out another bunch of stupid or FAQ...
someone turn off the submit feature!!!
"in wich direction would you be headed if you were going from the north pole to austrilla"
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no farther." -matt in regards to the recent Ask Greg posts...
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 6:03:52 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
I don't like to play the "episode we could live without" game because there really weren't any episodes in the first two seasons of "Gargoyles" that could be taken away without losing something - even it's a small - from the overall continuity. The last dozen "Goliath Chronicles" episodes, however, are another matter. :P
Jalapena! There are 152 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Los Angeles, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no farther!" - Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of the U.S.S. Enterprise
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 5:56:18 pm EST from 70.229.194.87
KRIS> Don't feel embarassed for Keith David. It's his fault that line is in the series at all. He apparantly says it in RL all the time."
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 12:16:37 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
I remember seeing a Bella Notta parody picture in the Art Room at the 2001 Gathering, entitled "Laddie and the Lass", with Bronx and Boudicca dining on the spaghetti, and Owen (with a resigned expression on his face) playing the concertina.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 7:07:05 am EST from 4.244.12.94
Ask Greg: Trolls or Noobies Noobies or Trolls.. I have to admit some of those are amusing even though it causes trouble.*sighs* ..
Boudicca/Bronx.. well, I prefer Boudicca not to stay in manhattan.. I know long distance relationships never work out but having her staying over there is too predictable.. which Gargoyles is anything but.besides,she can always visit.
I can totally picture a Bella Notte scene with B and B but I'd change the spaghetti to Hot Dogs ... more New Yorky.. also remember you have Fu Dog coming later in the comics maybe I don't know if Greg want's a love triangle between them.
unlikable episodes... I agree Vendettas is the worst of the post Gathering/pre-H.moon eps ... I didn't like Turf's ending because I doubt Brod and Dracon would wind up in the same cell.. maybe the prison was overcrowded..
Avalon eps, in no order... Golem, Monsters,Sentinel(why didn't they show Elisa getting her memory back at the end or mentioning it in another episode??).and Walkabout.
speaking of Monsters.. what is up with Bronx's eyes in that scene where Angela ,Goliath, and Elisa are in the subpod thingy at the end?
Starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 4:55:07 am EST from 168.103.156.22
Aw, I don't visit for a month due to being busy and I miss out on all kinds of great discussions, like gargoyle heredity and least favorite episodes. Spent the last little while catching up on some nicely packed comment pages.
MATT:
I could REALLY do without that closing "jalepena" line of Goliath's as well. Is that a common opinion among the fandom, or do most others see the humor in it? (I get it, I just don't like it). Heh, it's probably kinda stupid for me to hate it that much, but I can't help feeling so embarrassed for the character and Keith David for having to say it, embarrassed for myself for having to listen to it and getting ready to cringe when I know it's coming, and for the show for containing it.
Re: poll reply post from a couple years ago
Heh, the suggestion of getting a Bronx story with Boudicca has me imagining a Lady & The Tramp scenario (I know, I know, garg beasts aren't equivalent to dogs). I bet they even would've spoofed the spaghetti scene, as overdone as that is.
Re: Thom Adcox
Heh, Thom IS cute. His voice just makes him that much more so too. I didn't laugh when I saw/heard him in the Gathering Of The Cast And Crew featurette, but it is pretty amusing and a little strange to see some of the voice actors sometimes. I still can't get over how awesome it is that they modeled some of the human versions of the clan in "The Mirror" after the actors. human-Hudson in particular was spot on as an Ed Asner likeness.
That "Star Trek: Gargoyles" thing that was posted had me laughing pretty hard for a minute there. What sells it is the Patrick Stewart bit at the end. And that was my first glimse of Anansi (aside from imagining Neil Gaiman's version of him while reading American Gods a few years ago), never having seen "The Mark of the Panther" episode.
GOREBASH:
Good to hear you enjoyed Firefly and Serenity. It's a beautifully put together franchise. Awesome cast, sets, writing, score, visuals--everything. I'm glad Greg Weisman got the word out about it as well and is a big Joss Whedon fan. I've always thought they had some similarities in their work and would make an incredible team cooperating on something for film, TV, or comics.
BATTLE BEAST:
I entered your quiz. Some of those were tough. I guessed on a couple.
Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 3:45:44 am EST from 69.17.169.178
its been working fine for me the last few days...
and unfortunatly Ask Greg is working fine for these idiots posting crap lately as well...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 2:42:58 am EST from 24.182.146.1
Still can't access it.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 2:42:04 am EST from 198.53.28.99
The "unanswered questions" section is working fine for me now. It didn't work yesterday though.
Leo
posted @ Sun, Jan 22, 2006 2:27:19 am EST from 68.231.241.236
Me neither. Maybe it has something to do with the graphics card, that's what my friend told me. I suppose I could get a new one (though that would cost like $500 :
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"One must do what one has.......I suppose"
posted @ Sat, Jan 21, 2006 9:42:33 pm EST from 68.126.255.17
Neither can I.
Spen
posted @ Sat, Jan 21, 2006 4:13:28 pm EST from 216.248.119.208
I can't even *access* the unanswered questions. *SIGH.*
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, Jan 21, 2006 2:50:20 pm EST from 198.53.28.99
how can someone be so stupid as to post something like:
"you people better not put brooklyn with demona or i'll kick your @$$."
i mean its obviously an idea masquerading as a demand...
: )
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Sat, Jan 21, 2006 2:08:12 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
hurry! close the queue! they've discovered its open again!!! damnit, what losers...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Sat, Jan 21, 2006 5:24:22 am EST from 24.182.146.1
Harvester> No, it's not weird, it's consistent - I wanted to have the same layout for all three seasons. And I really DO hope Greg rambles on 'The Jorney', which would - in turn - justify the extra column :)
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Sat, Jan 21, 2006 4:21:14 am EST from 80.145.50.67
Finally, it cost me 250 pesos, but with all the proud that an argentina can feel, iam owner of the two dvd of gargoyles. GARGOYLES FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yo
posted @ Sat, Jan 21, 2006 2:37:36 am EST from 24.232.124.249
Guandalug: Just saw the Episode List in the fansite. Don't you think it's kind of weird that the Goliath Chronicles episodes have that same column for posting links to Greg's rambles? Conceivably, the only one Greg will ramble on is "The Journey."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 10:52:53 pm EST from 69.174.1.148
Omg, did anyone see the last few unanswered questions at "Ask Greg"? O_o
OLYMPIANS: ah, I forgot that they were hybrids. I think that I was really turned off by the idea that this ep could lead to a spinoff, so the episode seems a lot more forced. I always thought that "Gargoyles" is so much more unique and creative than the premise for the unmade spinoff. The Greek monster inspired creautures have been so overdone. *shrugs*
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 7:57:49 pm EST from 152.163.100.14
HARVESTER - Yes, Goliath's horrified and revolted response to Dracon's extortion rackets being called "protection" was one of my favorite parts of that episode too. Another was the bit where Dracon's patting Goliath familiarly on the shoulder until Goliath gives a little growl, followed by Tony hurriedly withdrawing his hand. (Not to mention Tony asking Goliath about Elisa being his woman.) And the bit where Dracon sends Goliath and Broadway to the dry cleaner's with Pal Joey, and Pal Joey is distinctly alarmed about those two accompanying him on the errand....
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 7:06:08 pm EST from 4.244.18.104
Poll> i'm not sure what those three characters were, though i'd guss they are Demona, Xanatos and Brooklyn, could be wrong though. Battle Beast might know? BB, do you have a link to that poll?
New Olympians> i didn't mind another new group of beings because they are simply the offspring of the Third Race and various mortals, so really they are not a NEW race, they are simply a hybridization of the three existing ones. i mean, we certainly wouldn't consider Merlin, Fox or Alex to be a new race, just a hybrid.
i have to wonder where the Lost Race fit into all this though. we know next to nothing about them...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 3:42:14 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
Matt: I'm curious, who were the three most popular characters from your poll?
"The Green" I used to not really like this ep, but it has really grown on me. (pun inteneded ;)) I don't think the rainforest message is pushed that much mainly because the other side of the story is presented by Elisa. I also really like E and G's little argument.
"Heritage" is ok, I mainly like it for the points Todd gave.
I think the two World Tour eps I could have done witout is "Monsters" (though of course Angela would still have to find out that Goliath is her father), and "The New Olympians" (ANOTHER race of creatures...please.)
I'm also not too fond of "Ill met by Moonlight", but it's important to the series.
"Protection" I don't mind too much. I like a lot of the dialogue in this ep; very character driven. And come on, we can't expet our protagonists to fight evil giant faeries every episode ;). Though I think if the animation was better, it would be appreciated more.
The two eps I could have done without
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 1:51:29 pm EST from 205.188.117.68
Matt: It seems so.
Ed: I too have always liked "Protection," for some reason. One of the things I found most amusing was Goliath's reaction upon hearing that something like protection (in this case, something almost sacred to a gargoyle) could be perverted. Also of note was the way Keith David read the line "I hope to see you soon" in Act III. The first time I watched that episode, my mom (who was kind of watching it) glanced up from what she was doing and said, "he loves her." One of Keith's better deliveries (not that he ever gave a sub-par one, but some were great and others were really great).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Space is what I need, what I feed on..."
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 12:49:46 pm EST from 69.174.1.148
i was bored and was looking through what we were talking about 1, 2 and 3 years ago and i found this post by myself made almost exactly two years ago:
VERY interesting poll! we should do polls more often since i have a feeling it could lead to some interesting discussion...
i'm surprised Reawakening didn't do better in any of the categories (paticularly Best Season 1 ep) i find that to be one of the best episodes of the series, but i know many disagree with me.
its interesting that the three most evolved characters are the three most popular.
Vendettas being unpopular was no surprise. i love every episode, even this one, but sometimes i wish they had done the World Tour Himalayan episode or another Bronx episode instead. bringing Hakon back seems to be anti-climatic after Shadows of the Past and making him related to Wolf comes off to me as forced, unrealistic, and corny.
Greg has said that Bronx was off having his own adventure during this episode. i think it would have been cool if they had had Boidekka left behind by Oberon in The Gathering and we could've had a romance between B & B, and maybe get Boidekka home some other way. *considers possibilities*
anyway, cool poll, thanks for bringing that to us, Battle Beast!!!
matt
Saturday, January 24, 2004 08:03:10 AM
sound familiar? guess we cycle through talking about things every two years or so, lol.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 11:29:45 am EST from 24.182.146.1
"The Green" f**king rules...
guess we'll have to disagree...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 8:41:14 am EST from 24.182.146.1
Don't ask me why, but the one episode I was never a huge fan of was "The Green." I liked the designs for the Guatemalen gargoyles, and the idea of sun amulets was interesting. But I felt that they hit us over the head a little too much with the environmental message. I didn't really mind the lack of subtlety in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time," due to the fact that it was sort of a major turning point for Broadway and Hudson's characters (plus I like Macbeth). But in "The Green," the message just felt weak when compared with other episodes.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Space is what I need, what I feed on..."
posted @ Fri, Jan 20, 2006 12:39:11 am EST from 69.174.1.148
Ed> great points about "Vendettas".
Heritage> this episode was originally a so-so episode IMHO, but revelations about how important that Island and the Natsilane line will be in G:2198 have made me appreciate it a lot more. and i guess thats why i'd be reluctant to swap out a World Tour episode. most of those episodes were our only window into a brand new environment, to take out a World Tour episode would take out an entire branch of Gargoyles stories. if we lost "Protection", we'd still have Dracon and organized crime in New York, if we lost "Bushido" we would never have seen the Ishimuran Clan, and though they may still exists in Greg's master plan, they would be as unremarkable to us as the Loch Ness, Pukhan, Xanadu and New Olympus Clans are...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 10:52:08 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
I agree with Ed about "Heritage", though to me, the two parts that really stand out to me about it (and more than make up for Natsilane's stubbornness) are:
1. An effective portrayal of Goliath still being troubled and even a little angry about all those gargoyle massacres (as he shows when he hears Raven's story about what supposedly happened to his clan - before he finds out that Raven was lying). Especially when Grandmother greets him with the comment that she's glad that gargoyles still thrive, and he replies, "We live. We do not thrive."
2. That wonderful scene where Bronx drives off the bear that Raven had sicced on Elisa and then sticks his head out of the bush, looking very pleased with himself - and then Goliath comes rushing up and he and Elisa hug each other in heartfelt relief.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 7:34:20 pm EST from 4.244.12.148
The main problem with "Vendettas" is that Hakon is responsible for the massacre of almost the entire Wyvern clan so putting his plot alongside a story about a guy with a pie-gun strikes me as misguided. The Hakon story could have had tremendous weight, and the Vinnie story could have been very funny, but merging the two did a tremendous disservice to both.
There are some episodes I like more than others, obviously, but none I'd want to lose. I do find "M.I.A." difficult to watch -- some of the past stuff is okay, but the presentation of modern-day London is quite unbelievable to me (as a Londoner by birth). Some other episodes just don't seem to 'click' -- "Legion" and "Upgrade" spring to mind. Often the episodes people single out are ones I rather like -- "Protection" is a lot of fun, "Heritage" has a wonderful brooding mystery, and "The Silver Falcon" is lovely. I enjoy the tightly-focused character pieces a lot.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 7:17:58 pm EST from 213.187.38.59
I remember that when I first watched "Sentinel" and saw the archaeologists who had discovered the Scrolls of Merlin in the "Previously On" section, I was hoping that it would involve Arthur and Griff's quest for Merlin (I can easily imagine Arthur hoping that the Scrolls would provide him with some clues as to where to look), and was disappointed when it was based (more or less) on Erich Von Daniken's ancient astronaut theories instead. At the time, I'd definitely have traded Nokkar for another story about Arthur and Griff. I'm not certain as to whether I still feel that way, though.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 7:03:49 pm EST from 4.244.12.148
Silver Falcon used to not be a favorite of mine, but over the years it has really grown on me. can't place exactly why i like it now, but i do think it is one of the better organized crime stories...
Protection on the other hand is another episode i could've done without. probably the next episode i would've dropped after Vendettas. and if we lost the Jalapena line from the series i think i could live with that.
i agree that a few more episodes between Gathering and Hunter's Moon would've been nice, but besides Bronx's adventure, i'm not sure Greg had any others in mind.
so i guess in my mind i would've liked to drop Protection and Vendettas and add the Coldstone/Himalayas story and Bronx's adventure.
another post-The Gathering episode i think would've been cool is to have Jade and Turquesa stop by Manhattan on their way back to Guatemala from Avalon so the could retrieve the Sun Amulet... of course i'm biased as a big fan of the Mayan Clan.
i think Todd would agree with me that another Arthur episode would've cool too, though i'm not sure how you'd continue to incorporate our main characters in it...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 6:41:32 pm EST from 150.201.114.132
I think "Panther" was very important to the series. It's in this episode that Goliath begins to think of Angela as *his* daughter, and I do have a fondness for it.
The thing with "Vendettas" is there's nothing really in it that contributes much to the series in a continuity sense. And yeah, it would have been better with a mace. I wouldn't really care either way if we heard the "battle axe night" line. If it was a mace in the first place, I'm sure the line wouldn't be "Tonight is mace night." I think the lines would be different altogether.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 4:32:15 pm EST from 205.188.117.68
I'm forced to agree that I didn't like "Vendettas." I could ahve done without it. Another one was "Silver Falcon."
I also felt that they should ahve taken out two or three tour eps, like "Panther" or "Golum," and brought the heros home quicker, making for a couple more stories with everyone in NY. But that's just me. (I did, however, like "panther.")
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 4:17:32 pm EST from 198.53.28.99
Jurgen> perhaps a Mace wouldn't survive 100 years, even in a cave, but what makes you think an Axe would? i figure that if the Axe can last all those years, a Mace could as well.
"I remember Greg doing a Q&A at the one Gathering I attended, when someone asked him if there were any episodes he wish they hadn't done in order to make room for others they never got a chance to do. He said no, none of them."
if that was Gathering 6 in Williamsburg, than that was me who asked that. its funny you bring it up since i had Vendettas in mind when i asked it, thinking the Coldstone/Himalayas or Bronx's adventure episode during "Turf" and "Vendettas" would've been better... i'm also glad i didn't mention Vendettas in particular to Greg at that time. i distinctly remember being a bit taken aback my the matter-of-fact way he answered "No" without hesitation. perhaps he had considered that question before...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 2:54:44 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
Dangit, Todd, for once I thought I was the first one to think of something:
"Question received on Fri, September 15, 2000 08:23:12 PM
Todd Jensen writes...
I recently realized that there is a certain similarity between the Sidero/Xavier team-up in the original comedy version of "Gargoyles" and the Hakon/Wolf team-up in "Vendettas". In both cases, a couple of villains team up against the gargoyles, one an original enemy of theirs from the Middle Ages, surviving on only as a ghost, the other a modern-day descendant of that medieval enemy who is scorned by his medieval ancestor for being too "poor-quality". Was the Sidero/Xavier team-up the distant inspiration for the Hakon/Wolf team-up?
Greg responds...
Likely it very much was. Of course, the main motivator was the very talented Clancy Brown. But nothing gets wasted, consciously or otherwise.
Response recorded on September 21, 2000"
I was seriously thinking about submitting that to Ask Greg, in response to his Vendettas ramble. Sigh... oh, well.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 2:02:51 pm EST from 153.9.92.48
Matt: heh, I'm not even gonna go there with the Avalon gargoyles and the garbeasts. Way too confusing ;p
Vendettas: I pretty much agree with what everyone says here. I too felt it was too anticlimatic. I would have liked to see more passion against Hakon from Hudson and Goliath. There's just a bunch of lame battle sequences. I mean, This is the man who killed their family...their children. Hudson's line "get an afterlife," was way too flip in my opinion. And Wolf...I think he's my least favorite character in the series.
Some of Vinnie's narration was funny, but I think he was overplayed; too much a caricature for a show like this. But I still liked his scenes more than the Wolf/Hakon stuff. Yeah, there could have been a host of better stories told than this one, but it's just one bad ep in a host of great episodes, so I guess we really don't have much to complain about. :D
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 12:26:19 pm EST from 152.163.100.14
Everyone has an episode they could do without. I'm not one of the "Vendettas" haters, but it's definetly not one of my favorites.
Personally, I never liked "Mark of the Panther".
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 12:12:27 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
I kinda doubt a mace would last 1000 years, though.
Actually, I had a thought about Vendettas recently. Remember how, in the original comedy development of Gargoyles, Xavier, the proto-Xanatos, was a descendant of the wizard who cursed the gargoyles? As I recall, the ghost of that wizard was always talking to Xavier, giving him advice, and he was constantly disappointed in Xavier's incompetence, thinking him an unworthy heir... Sound familiar? Knowing how many of the comedy concepts were fused into the final product of Gargoyles, I doubt it was a coincidence.
And I agree that Vendettas was a sub-par episode; I'd say the worst of the canon 66. Hakon was an unintersting antagonist in this as opposed to his gaslighting in Shadows, the fighting was overlong and boring, and I thought Vinnie's slapstick was stupid and unfunny (though I liked the concept of Vinnie). And I've known for some time that Vendettas was not well-loved by the fans as a whole. I remember Greg doing a Q&A at the one Gathering I attended, when someone asked him if there were any episodes he wish they hadn't done in order to make room for others they never got a chance to do. He said no, none of them. I thought about asking "even Vendettas?" believing that everyone hated that episode. Seeing how fond of it Greg is, I'm glad I didn't.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 11:28:17 am EST from 68.59.43.129
The big problem that I had with "Vendettas" was that it felt anticlimactic after "Shadows of the Past", less dramatic. Though it was kind of fun to have Hakon showing all that exasperation towards Wolf.
The real highlight of the episode for me was Vinnie - though the first time that I saw the episode, I thought that it sounded far-fetched that the motorcycle rider, the guard on board Fortress-1, and the Gen-U-Tech security guard were all the same person. But I thought it very funny the way that Vinnie's narration differed from what really happened (especially when he's talking about how he did all that he could to stop Goliath from kidnapping Sevarius, and then we see that he actually had his nose buried in the newspaper, oblivious to everything) - and when it turned out what Mr. Carter's ammunition was. Odd that Vinnie should be the one character in the series who ever succeeded in getting revenge on Goliath.
Greg's regret that he didn't make the battle-axe a mace instead reminds me of an odd little creativity demon of my own; what if Demona's mace (the one that she's used in the series a couple of times, such as smashing open the granary doors in 1020 and all those petrified humans in "City of Stone") was the mace that Hakon had used for the Wyvern Massacre? On the surface level, one would think that Demona wouldn't want to use that particular mace - but on the other hand, she might choose to use it precisely because it was the weapon that had destroyed her clan, seeing it as poetic justice to turn it against the species that had originally used it against her kind.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 8:27:57 am EST from 4.244.12.177
Shara, I got your e-mail and passed it onto Greg. I should have responded to you about it... half asleep here in London. Oy! Sorry!
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
posted @ Thu, Jan 19, 2006 6:17:50 am EST from 212.158.203.200
BattleBeast, PurpleGoldfish, et al> glad that helps. if you want it to get complicated again you can always add the effects of time travel and time on Avalon into the mix. its not as simple as just saying the Avalon Clan generation is the same age as the Trio's generation, cuz while in 1995 they are, they will continue to age at a slower rate being on Avalon. furthermore, since Gargoyle reproduction follows a Natural Earth-based cycle, the Gargoyles on Avalon are all screwy, skipping breeding times, having more than three eggs, and all that, what a mess! Gargoyle Beast reproduction is pretty confusing too, i still havn't got that all figured out. apparently Bronx is already old enough to mate, even though regular gargoyles his age would only be the equivalent of 8 year olds or so. the other 2 beasts on Avalon (besides Boudicca) by the time of "Avalon" already should've had a baby beast and another egg a few years from hatching I THINK. Greg has confirmed some of this, but Beast reproduction remains pretty complicated. its likely they can bear more than three offspring in their lives, but we are not even sure of their lifespan. very confusing.
Vendettas> first off, i just want to say that everything i say here is just my opinion. i don't want to upset anyone, particularly Greg since his ramble makes him sound quite fond of the episode.
i've really been looking forward to this ramble, not because i like the episode, but on the contrary, because i thought it was such a bad episode and was interested to see what Greg would have to say about it. i was pretty surprised at his ramble. in my opinion, it was anti-climatic that Hakon makes his way out of the cave, esspecially SO SOON. the Wolf/Hakon connection seemed forced, and i'm still not sure why Wolf was even in Scotland or how they discovered their relation. the best comedy in the series was generally situational one-liners and sarcasm. i felt the slap-stick nature of Vinnie was horribly out of place in the series. i have nothing against Vinnie in particular though, and liked him a lot in "The Journey", but in "Vendettas" he just comes off as kinda boring.
i did catch Goliath accidently hitting Hudson which was pretty funny cuz its so realistic. you'd think that as much battling the gargs do in this series they'd be having a lot more clumsy moments.
overall, i'd have to say that all things considered, this is the worst episode in the series. and thats not to say its horrible, just not up to par with most of the rest of the series. some things that would've made this episode a lot better IMHO:
- Greg was right, the Axe should've been a Mace. it would've added a lot more weight to that weapon, no pun intended. it would've added Hakon's Mace to the rich and varied collection of relics found in the series, it would've been very cool.
- along those same lines, the Hudson-Hakon conflict should have been developed more. as Greg said, Hudson lost a lot in that massacre and we never got to see much of his grief and anger over it. i would've liked to see Hakon become Hudson's main enemy. perhaps Goliath should've just had a supporting role in this episode, Hudson never had enough play in the series anyway. Wolf, Goliath and Vinnie should've been toned down, and Hudson and Hakon should've been our main characters here. perhaps this would've been a great time to develop Jeffrey Robbin's a bit more as well. doesn't he have any demons to fight coming out of Vietnam? imagine if this episode had only focused on Hudson and Robbins versus Hakon's Ghost and the Mace. might have been a good time to let Robbins in on the secret of Gargoyles too.
however, i realize that hindsight is 20/20 and that we've had 11 years to think about this episode. i know the crew was running on tight schedules, esspecially in this huge second season. with that in mind, i don't fault them for making an episode i didn't particularly like. i'm glad Greg likes this episode, i wouldn't want him to feel like they did a crappy job, cuz they didn't, compared to most cartoons, this episode is pretty nice, but compared to the rest of Gargoyles, i feel it falls a bit short.
Turf Notes> i think i actually enjoy the outline notes Greg puts out even more than the rambles. i like to see how an episode developed, its cool to see how things might've been, and i usually agree with Greg's changes. one interesting thing out of this one is: "I feel that we need to know who Angela will wind up with in the long run (assuming there ever is a long run). Gary Sperling and I discussed it, and came to a semi-consensus that Angela and Broadway would make a nice couple." i think thats great. and little did Greg know that we'd be sitting here talking about that decision 11 years later. they were talking about Angela and Broadway getting together in '95 and here i am in 2006 earlier today talking about them having their first child born in 2018! talk about the long run! the series didn't continue much longer, but the characters sure did.
Spen> yeah, i watched "Avalon" tonight and it seems the eggs got to Avalon in 995, so they had about 3 years left til they were due to hatch, and on Avalon 3 years is actually 72 years in the real world. that would put us at 1067... Greg probably figured (logically) that the eggs would sit around a bit longer until 1078 to hatch so that they were hatching with the Earth's correct cycle time or whatever. in fact, i think i remember Greg saying that the eggs did hatch a bit late due to both the Earth's cycle rythmes and the fact that the eggs may have needed a bit more time because of the rigors of their long journey from Wyvern to Avalon... and 11 years in the real world is less than 6 months on Avalon, so they didn't hatch too much behind schedule.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 9:38:24 pm EST from 24.182.146.1
He also posted his notes for "Turf"
The outline for "Vendettas" was fun. THough, kinda weird that Greg was talking about "popping his cherry" in it. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 9:19:01 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
Matt : It was once mentioned that Angela's rookery hatched in 1078. (Or at least, there should be some mention in the archives; the TGS timeline had to get its info from somewhere.)
Spen
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 7:33:24 pm EST from 216.248.119.208
Matt: Wow, it took me awhile to think over all those generations and dates, but it's really starting to make sense now! Thank you for your help :D
Yay another ramble from greg! Though I'm not really a big fan of "Vendettas", at least the ramble makes it more interesting. I've got to watch for Goliath accidentally hitting Hudson in the face, heheh, I don't remember that.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 7:05:27 pm EST from 152.163.100.204
Greg posted his ramble for Vendettas! Go check it out! :D
D. Taina
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 6:54:40 pm EST from 172.168.6.87
WOW. I JUST got that. The Gargoyles age at half speed becuase they are stone by day. They don't age in stone. Huh. Took me long enough.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 3:57:52 pm EST from 198.53.28.99
Greg's links: thanks for the links Greg!
-how awesome would that have been to have the Anaheim Gargoyles!!! as others have said, it'd be great publicity. Disney would probably want another clone made, perhaps of Bronx, and name it Anaheim!
-gives me chills to hear that Greg has finished two of the stories for the comic already! NEW STORIES!!! thrilling!
DVD> i watched the commentary for CoS last night and Greg addressed both the voiceover on the intro and the "Previously.." segments, so never mind waht i said below...
also, i finally got to see the alternate ending to VOWS. frankly, i do see how its a mistake, but i can live with it. its not terribly confusing, and its no where near the level of the "two Hudsons and a Bronx" scene in KINGDOM, as i suspected.
PurpleGoldFish> yeah, the numbers work out, but can be confusing. the problems with your thinking is that the ages Greg listed are BIOLOGICAL ages, not chronological. since Gargoyles don't age, and apparently don't mature either, while they are sleeping, their biological ages are half those of how old they truly are. for instance, in 2018 Artus, Broadway and Angela's first child, will hatch. by 2058 he'll chronologically be 40 years old, but biologically he'll only be 20, not much older than the Trio was in the mid-90s.
i understand why we keep track of all this (so we know why a 30-something year old gargoyle is basically equivalent to a teenager), but it is rather confusing and its easier to focus on their ACTUAL ages, not their equivalents in human terms. hopefully that makes sense and you'll be able to see how Hudson was the correct age to father both Goliath and the Trio's generations, as well as one following that.
Anonymous was correct in pointing out to me that there is 60 years, not 40 between a gargoyle's hatch-date and the hatching of his/her first child. thats what i meant, but obviously the math gets confusing, my mistake.
as for your other query, remember that there is only 20 years between each generation, not 30. yes it takes 20 years between matings and ten years for the eggs to hatch, but they overlap. heres a rundown that'll hopefully make things easier... (to everyone else, sorry i'm taking up so much space with this!)
878: Hudson's generation (lets call them Gen A) is hatched.
888: gargoyles mate and the eggs are laid containing Gen B.
898: Gen B. hatches.
908: gargoyles mate and the eggs are laid containing Gen C.
918: Gen C hatches.
928: Gen A (plus the two generations before it) mate and lay eggs (Gen D).
938: Gen D (this is the generation containing Goliath, Demona, Hippolyta and the Coldtrio) hatches.
948: the generation before Gen A, Gen A and Gen B mate and lay eggs (Gen E).
958: Gen E (this is the generation containing the Trio) hatches.
968: Gen A, B and C mate and lay eggs (Gen F).
978: Gen F (this is the generation containing True, Hudson's third and final child) hatches.
988: Gen B, C, and D mate and lay eggs (Gen G).
998: Gen G (this is the generation containing Angela, Gabriel and the rest of the Avalon Clan) was due to be born in the Wyvern Rookery. however, i'm pretty sure they hatched at a different time since they were moved to Avalon, can anyone verify this?
so, hope that makes some sense to you. you may notice that none of Hudson's grandchildren are born til the generation after his last child was born. so a gargoyle never starts producing children until his/her parent's are done having children. its a neat system and works out quite well. feel free to ask if you are still confused, though i'm not sure how else to explain it...
sorry for another long post from matt, but i've always been interested with Clan dynamics, including their reproduction.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 2:15:24 pm EST from 150.201.38.91
Todd: Okay. Just thought I'd ask. Unlike George Lucas, I'm just going to grin and bear how I was at that particular time.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 1:38:45 pm EST from 69.174.1.148
MR. X - Greg already answered that. The spell itself was undone, so no. Demona would need to cast it again.
Hmm, does she still have the spell? Obviously, it'd be pointless to use it on such a wide scale again, but she could secretly dispose of her enemies with it.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 1:32:15 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
Hmm, completely on a random tangant of thought, I had a few questions regarding City of Stone (most of which I found the answers to in the archives). My question is this: If someone recorded a copy of Demona's broadcast, then watched it at a later time (after the events in City of Stone), what would happen to them? Would they be turned to stone every night until the sky was set ablaze, again?
Mr. X
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 9:06:19 am EST from 202.154.136.73
HARVESTER - We can't scrap questions yet, unfortunately. When Gorebash implements the new system, then we can - but that will probably take a while longer for him to complete and install it.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 7:52:20 am EST from 4.244.12.208
W.I.T.C.H. is an animated series produced by Greg Weisman. As for finding info about it, just go to Ask Jeeves, Dogpile, Google, etc. and type in W.I.T.C.H.(Make sure to type it like that and not like Witch.)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"One must do what one has.......I suppose"
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 1:42:41 am EST from 68.126.255.17
What is Witch? Where can I find it?
Incorrigible
posted @ Wed, Jan 18, 2006 12:59:55 am EST from 66.51.195.104
Greg said that they are finished producing the second season of W.I.T.C.H. and that it should air in a month or two.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"One must do what one has.......I suppose"
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 10:56:29 pm EST from 68.126.255.17
Does anyone by any chance know when the second season (the one Greg wrote or produced or something else) of W.I.T.C.H. is going to start playing? I started watching the show based on the fact that I knew Greg was involved in season two. Season one was pretty good, but very linear and kind of predictable. I can wait to see what Greg can do with the property, though. Unfortunately, they're just playing the same reruns over and over again, and I can't find anything that even acknowledges a second season exists, let alone when it's supposed to start playing.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with. This is an affectation up with which I will not put." -Winston Churchill
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 10:27:14 pm EST from 68.58.253.131
haha I would ask something on ask greg but my questions are always answered.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
http://www.animelosangeles.org/
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 9:46:03 pm EST from 209.178.149.93
Thanks, Greg. I'd been unsuccessfully searching the archives for that. I never realized how old Tony's grandfather was. He's quite a fit old geezer, to do the kind of stuff he was doing in "The Silver Falcon."
I think my next query is for Todd: is it possible to scrap what I've put in the Unanswered Questions forum? I was relatively new to the fandom when I posted those, and I've since found answers to just about all of them. So now I'm kind of embarrassed by them.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You have the right to free speech... as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it!" -The only band that really matters.
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 9:00:51 pm EST from 69.174.1.148
Greg Weisman> Did Jen get forward you the anime LA info for the pannels? Just making sure you got it.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
http://www.animelosangeles.org/
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 8:33:28 pm EST from 209.178.149.93
PURPLEGOLDFISH> The numbers do add up, in regards to Hudson anyway.
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=faq1#3
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 8:07:51 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
Okay, I've been thinking about this the last couple of hours and it's driving me nuts! Lol. I just don't understand how Huson can be a rookery father to both Goliath and the trio's generation...the numbers don't add up.
Ok, the rules are that a female gargoyle lays three eggs in her lifetime, one every twenty years. But it takes ten years for the eggs to hatch.
In the archives, Greg Weisman states that Goliath is 29 years old as of "Awakenings" (in human years) and the trio members are 19. They are only ten years apart. So if Hudson and his mate were rookery parents to both generations, wouldn't they have to be thirty years apart?? Am I missing something here? Sorry for being annoying, but I've never fully understood this stuff ;P
Oh I'm so psyched over those comics!!!
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 8:00:39 pm EST from 152.163.100.204
Thanks for the links, Greg - and congratulations on getting the first two issues written already!
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 6:57:11 pm EST from 4.244.18.116
Mighty Gargoyles?! hmmm... that's just... weird... of course you know all the games would have to be held at night. that definitley gets the WTF?! for the day.
I don't like Baseball that much. that I'd hitchike too see a Gargoyles game down there.
Starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 6:46:24 pm EST from 168.103.156.22
Damn, that would have been awesome press.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 5:41:05 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
Thank you Matt, that helps a lot :) And that "father" thing makes sense. I didn'nt notice anything different about the intros on the DVD.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 5:37:51 pm EST from 205.188.117.68
I'm sorry, one last one...
This guy's commenting on the first link I put up. Don't know him, but I like what he wrote.
Greg Weisman
Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 5:32:13 pm EST from 66.245.233.54
Fun links Greg, thanks for posting them.
And hey, first two issues written with the third one plotted? Very cool, I can't wait to read these.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 5:31:35 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
And finally, there's this goofy little thing. Again, not much that's revelatory here for you guys, but I thought it was fun.
Greg Weisman
Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 5:23:36 pm EST from 66.245.233.54
Here's another link. This one is for an interview I did for the DVD. There's probably nothing here that an old fan doesn't already know, but...
What kind of fascinates me about it is that this was an interview taped over the phone... it's amazing to me how quickly and for the most part (with a few minor exceptions) accurately a transcript was generated.
Greg Weisman
Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 5:19:58 pm EST from 66.245.233.54
I've got a few links to post. All stuff forwarded to me. The info in this article is actually surprising news to me. I had no idea that Gargoyles was ever even briefly considered for this, but it supports my theory that Eisner himself was something of a fan of the show. And it was when he stepped back from direct supervision of Walt Disney Television Animation (around the same time that Katzenberg, Krisel and Cranston all left for DreamWorks), that we were set
adrift in a sea of execs that didn't much care for the show.
Greg Weisman
Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 5:10:39 pm EST from 66.245.233.54
Matt: It's 60 years, not 40, that separate a generation from their first children. They don't breed until they are fifty, and then it takes ten years for the offspring to hatch.
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 4:21:48 pm EST from 69.154.243.152
Vash> thanks for the summary, i had forgotten that True had been named. are we sure True is female? Purplegoldfish ain't kiddin', True could be our characterization of all those gargoyle children who were killed in the massacre. i guess if that generation hatched in 978, they would be about 16 years old, so equivalent to 8 year old humans. pretty sad.
purplegoldfish> yes, Hudson is a rookery father to all the gargoyles who survived the massacre (Goliath, the Trio, Demona and the Coldtrio). i imagine what they CALL him is not as important as how they TREAT him given their unfamiliarity with naming people. they certainly treat his as a father, but we must remember that for all the similarities gargoyle family dynamics are very different from human family dynamics. keep in mind that all the Manhattan Clan gargoyles had several fathers and several mothers, and many brothers and sisters. surely there is a wide range of relationships in this mix. Othello obviously sees Hudson (Mentor) in a father-figure/authority/teacher way, Goliath sees him as a close friend and advisor.if asked, i'm sure all would agree he is their rookery father, but "father" has a slightly different meaning for gargs i think.
as for the generations present at Wyvern circa 994:
the oldest generation present was probably Hudson's generation. hatched in 878.
there was a generation hatched in 898.
there was a generation hatched in 918.
there was the generation hatched in 938. this was Hudson's first bunch of rookery kids including Goliath, Demona, Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Hippolyta among others.
there was a generation hatched in 958. this generation was Hudson's second bunch of kids including Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington.
there was a generation hatched in 978. this was Hudson's last bunch of rookery children, and as Vash pointed out, this includes True. Bronx was also born with this generation, but he is not considered Hudson's rookery son.
if the Massacre hadn't occured and all had gone well, the eggs in the rookery would've hatched at Wyvern in 998 (4 years after the massacre). this generation would be Goliath's generation's first rookery children, and thus Hudson's first rookery grand-children. we now know this generation as the Avalon Clan including Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca, Raphael, Azrael, etc.
the easy way to look at it is that each generation is seperated by 20 years from the one before and after, and that 2 generations (40 years) seperate a generation from their first rookery children. this means that it is not possible for a gargoyle to be born in the same generation as a biological sibling, uncle, or aunt. the closest biological relatives within a generation is first cousins.
hope that clears things up for you PurpleGoldy...
DVD> due to lack of funds i only today received my Garg S2:V1 DVD. ordered it from Amazon and have watched some of it already. i enjoyed "The Gathering of..." segment, very neat to see all the voice actors and some of the crew that you don't often see or hear from.
i was never fond of the artwork on the cover of the DVD, but i LOVE the artwork inside. the picture of Demona crouching under the table of contents looks new to me, is it?
the pictures on the DVDs themselves are very cool also, again, the Demona on Disk 1 looks new, and looks great!
i like the menu a lot more than Garg S1. its obvious that Demona has become quite the focus of this DVD!
i'm surprised no one said anything (on the DVD or in here lately) about a couple of the biggest changes in basic format of the episodes from Season 1 to Season 2. Goliath's voiceover in the intro and the "Previously on Gargoyles..." segments. i would've liked to understand why the changes in the intro in particular were made.
i dunno why, but when i watched Thom Adcox on the documentary i almost started laughing. maybe its cuz his voice is so distinct and its so obviously Lex in my head. if i was at a grocery store or something and heard Brigatte Bako talking i don't think i would react to it much unless she really started acting Angela-esque, but if Thom Adcox started talking i would turn around immediately, recognizing the voice. i honestly think his voice is more distinct to me than even Kieth David's.
of course, it could just be that i think Thom is cute...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 3:21:20 pm EST from 150.201.33.39
Hudson lost a lot of children. He had many sons and many daughters, except for Goliath, Demona (or is their Rookery too old?) and the trio, all the rest of his children were massacred by Hakon.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 3:07:13 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
oops, *rookery* not "rooker" ;p
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 2:07:25 pm EST from 205.188.117.68
Wow, I had no idea Hudson has a third child! (That's really kind of sad, when you think about what happened to it.) And I didn't think his first child was of Goliath's generation...interesting. So he's really a rookery father to all the males of the Manhattan clan (and Demona too). It makes me wonder why none of them called him "father," or "rooker father," since Greg has said it's a common title.
Another question: was there a generation between Goliath's and the trio's? For that matter, does anyone know how many generation of gargoyles there were at Castle Wyvern before the massacre?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 2:05:52 pm EST from 205.188.117.68
Matt> Greg has revealed that Hudson's mate was "a fierce warrior and a lovely individual" who died in 971 of unnatural causes (Greg refuses to mention how she died, whether injured in battle or by some other event). We know that she and Hudson had three biological children, conceived in 928 (Hyppolyta; Goliath's generation), 948 (Broadway) and 968 (True; Bronx's generation). True would have hatched in 978, seven years after her mother was killed. We know little else about Hudson's mate, except that she helped train Goliath, occasionally used human weapons and armor as Hudson did, and may have had as strong a Scottish accent from close interaction with the humans of Castle Wyvern. Although Greg leans towards having the clan call Hudson "Mentor" before the massacre, he has not yet decided on whether his mate would have a similar appellation, although Hudson did have his own name for her.
Vashkoda - [vashkoda@glaringdream.org]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 1:09:12 pm EST from 129.98.124.232
It's not that easy? Hmmm... And as for the Hudson question, like I said, I made it two years ago, so... Sorry if it's wrong. Simple mistake.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 1:36:23 am EST from 198.53.28.99
Well, the events of "The Mirror" only lasted one night. Elisa wasn't going to stay a Gargoyle for six months to lay an egg.
Besides, at the time, Goliath still had hopes of reconciliation with Demona.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 12:53:32 am EST from 65.33.202.237
ummm, i don't think Goliath and Elisa were quite ready for that at the time of "The Mirror"...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 12:44:49 am EST from 68.119.248.49
When Elisa had turned into a gargoyle that's when Elisa and Goliath should've mated and then after they have had a child Elisa could turn back normal.
Christina Byrd - [jbyrd90@webtv.net]
Christina Byrd
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 12:35:59 am EST from 209.240.205.62
I don't care wat any body say i think Elisa looks good.She almost remined of the r&b singer Aaliyah now thats sexy!!!!!!
Christina Byrd - [jbyrd90@webtv.net]
Christina Byrd
posted @ Tue, Jan 17, 2006 12:30:26 am EST from 209.240.205.62
The ONLY question in Battle Beast's quiz that I couldn't eventually answer was the one about Hudson's mate. Are you sure you didn't mean *daughter,* Battle Beast?
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera(at)gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 10:54:44 pm EST from 24.126.8.44
yeah Jurgen, you are right, Hippolyta is simply a name we (Greg W started it! lol) use to refer to Hudson's first biological child, a daugther. i doubt she ever really refered to herself as such. but Todd and Elisa are right when we all too humanly say "things need names". makes me wonder how "Dark Ages" would've worked out.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 10:05:05 pm EST from 68.119.248.49
That's most likely the case. The same sort of thing as the ColdTrio's names - because we humans can't seem to get along without them.
On a related subject, one touch that I very much like in "Awakening" is that we are never told the Captain's name (I know that Greg mentioned at "Ask Greg" that it was Robbie, but I mean in the actual animated episode), but only his title. This fits in beautifully because it comes at a time when none of the gargoyles (except for Goliath) have names, and so the Captain seems closer to being one of them by being "nameless" himself, displaying his sense of identification with the gargoyles - a sense of identification so strong that when Hakon asks him puzzledly "Why betray your own kind?", the Captain replies "They're not my kind."
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 9:00:50 pm EST from 4.244.18.130
Why are we talking about Hudson's children's names? They wouldn't have had names. Is Hippolyta a code-name, a la Othello, Desdemona, and Iago?
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with. This is an affectation up with which I will not put." -Winston Churchill
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 8:25:33 pm EST from 68.58.253.131
A Quote:
Question received on Sat, September 02, 2000 05:50:01 AM
Aris Katsaris writes...
You said that Hudson had two biological children and would have had a third if his mate hadn't been killed. Does that mean he mated after he was biologically 25? Because if not, they could have had conceived eggs in 928 (Goliath's generation), 948 (Broadway) and 968 (Bronx's generation) since his mate was killed in 971 as you've told us.
So, was it a miscalculation on your part, or did Hudson first mate late in life?
And does Hyppolyta belong to Goliath's or to Bronx's generation?
Greg responds...
Yeah. That was a mistake. A very annoying mistake. His eldest biological child is part of Goliath's generation. (Thus Goliath, Demona, Iago, etc. are all his rookery children .) His second biological child (Broadway) is obviously part of the Trio's generation. (And he's a rookery father to all of them as well.) His third biological child, and there is a third one, hatched in the same generation as Bronx. (And he was a rookery father to all of them as well. Well, all the gargoyles, not the beasts.)
Hyppolyta was part of the generation that included--
Wait a minute. Just cuz I made a mistake, doesn't mean I have to give everything away right now.
Whew. You almost had me.
Response recorded on September 09, 2000
-----------------------------------------------------
has this changed? if not i guess Hudson has at least one son, at least one daughter and had another kid in Bronx's generation! somehow this doesn't sound right to me... does anyone know whether Greg W changed his mind about that third kid or not?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 5:36:37 pm EST from 68.119.248.49
HEYA CHAPS! ima back............wow u guys never fail to make me feel ignorant about gargoyles, hudson had a daughter?!!!!
Ethnar - [algalords_emisarry@hotmail.com]
FLYING GHEKOS WILL RULE THE WORLD!
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 5:13:17 pm EST from 68.121.86.66
Sometimes you can be in a fandome for years and always miss stuff. I only realized that this comment room exists two days ago... *oops* But it's a damn good one. Maybe I will leave more comments here from time to time.(All the canon debates make me grin a little after I "modified" the canon in my saga)
Just a little annoucement:
The admin of AMGC is nearly desperate for submissions. Up to now there is only one for this month. I hope spreading word of this around will attract some artists.
-Tribun
Tribun - [joachim_henkel@gmx.net]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 2:50:55 pm EST from 87.122.56.143
nevermind, Greg B is 10...
and hes right, Hudson's mate was never named, only his son and daughter.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 1:40:05 pm EST from 68.119.248.49
still waiting for number 10...
as for the quiz, off the top of my head i can come up with 13 of Oberon's children (not including Merlin, Fox or Alex or Oberon and Titania) so there are certainly a lot of them in the show, certainly 10 isn't that difficult, even for someone like myself who isn't focused as much on the magical elements of the show.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 1:39:10 pm EST from 68.119.248.49
Greg never gave a name for Hudson's mate. Only a biological daughter. Hippolyta.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 1:38:10 pm EST from 65.33.202.237
Actually, it's not that easy battlebeast ;) Are you sure Greg ever announced the name of Hudson's mate? All I remember is the name of his daughter. And the name ten Oberon's children is very difficult (were there even ten in the series?)I could only come up with eight.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 1:23:11 pm EST from 64.12.116.8
I found a trivia quiz that I made years ago, for a contest. I am putting up the link again.
http://school.discovery.com/quizzes28/battlebeast/gargoyles2.html
It will be a contest, and the winner will receive a prize. I don't know what it will be, but it will probably be a Gargoyles themed prize. (or something cool.) This quiz is rediculously easy.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 9:31:22 am EST from 198.53.28.99
9th!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 9:30:32 am EST from 198.53.28.99
8th!
The Sadistic Cow
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 9:12:46 am EST from 65.92.233.78
7th!
Leo
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 9:00:08 am EST from 68.231.241.236
6th.
I don't know if I've mentioned this here before or not, but I've sometimes wondered whether the head of the Illuminati Society (Duval) being also the Fisher King (keeper of the Holy Grail) could have easily wound up being a controversial matter. As in, having the guardian of a Christian relic being also the head of a machiavellian secret organization that's doing things like funding the Gargoyles Universe's equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan and running the Hotel Cabal. It might be interpreted by some as a negative portrayal of Christianity. (On the other hand, there are one or two indications in Greg's remarks about Duval that the Grail doesn't approve of the direction that he's going in, so maybe it wouldn't be so much of a problem.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 7:31:30 am EST from 4.244.12.40
I wonder if goliath and elisa is goinig to take their relationship further cause they seem so romatic together thats it makes me want to watch this show so much. Is they going to get married and have childern I wonder sometimes thats why I love this show so much. It was nice chill'n wit yall!!!!!
Christina Byrd - [jbyrd90@webtv.net]
Christina Byrd
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 5:11:14 am EST from 209.240.205.62
heh, I just got through with Battle Beast's quiz from last week. they were good questions... a couple hard ones (Xanatos's College and Hudson's mate . you sure it wasn't his daughter? he told us who that was). Oberon's children were tough, wasn't sure if should've said Titania in one of those oh well, and would Boudicca coun't as one of the non-Manhattan Gargoyles? or would she go under beast? oh well... *wonders how well she did*
Starlioness
starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 4:21:58 am EST from 168.103.156.22
third. Moving up.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 1:21:09 am EST from 64.12.116.8
2nd again. it's good enough for me :)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"One must do what one has.......I suppose"
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 12:59:22 am EST from 68.126.255.17
FIRST!!!!
first time in a LOOOONG time!!!
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Jan 16, 2006 12:00:30 am EST from 68.119.248.49