Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Sorry for the double post, but this new question in Ask Greg has re-inspired something that's been on my mind for a while.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8976

Gargoyles - Unique Species or Humans With Wings?

Everyone seems to have their own views and beliefs and pet peeves when it comes to Gargoyles and fandom creations. Ultimately, the whole point of fanfic is to do your own thing with it. But, why is most popular thing to do to take away the gargoyles' unique culture?

I think I understand how this whole thing got started. A lot of people seemed to misinterpret exactly what Goliath was doing when he was trying to discourage Angela from asking about her parentage, and finally "acknowledging" her as his daughter.

That was all, mostly fear over the Demona factor. Angela was interested in her biological parentage, Goliath wanted to keep her away from Demona. He was afraid of Demona being a corrupting influence on the young gargoyle. That, and he didn't think he should give her special treatment over her Rookery siblings. But like Diane Maza pointed out in "Mark of the Panther", "Angela is the only hatchling with you."

Yes, Angela is his daughter, biologically. But Gabriel and Ophelia are still just as much his children as Angela is. Goliath didn't reject his gargoyle culture. Gabriel and Ophelia can call him "Father" without it being weird. They are all his children.

And, according to Greg Weisman, Angela and Broadway eventually have three biological children, and Brooklyn and his future mate Katana have two. But they are all children of the clan. Lex will be as much these hatchling's father as Brooklyn and Broadway.

And you know what? I think it's really cool. Makes the species unique, gives them their own culture, their own way of doing things. And that is one of the things that appealed to me about the series. Made this fictional species feel real.

But most fanfics I read tend to reject this cultural difference and turn the gargoyles into "humans with wings". Take away the wings, talons, tails and the turning to stone, and there is no difference between them and humans.

Or, are a lot of people not comfortable with what is different? I mean, you're always seeing Greg being asked "who is Goliath/Demona/Coldstone/Brooklyn/etc's parents."

Again, this is not to knock anyone. Just thought it could be an interesting discussion.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Sun, Jan 29, 2006 2:30:27 am EST from 65.33.202.237

KRIS> Yes, Demona and Macbeth can reproduce. Or, Macbeth can at least. Demona could, but considering Puck's spell, it's likely she would have a miscarriage.

I don't see Demona having any more children.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Sun, Jan 29, 2006 1:39:08 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Matt : Here's a link to it.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sun, Jan 29, 2006 1:25:43 am EST from 216.248.119.208

Starlioness said:
"Demona/Macbeth relationship.. I suppose anything's possible though I think it would be kinda weird ..wonder what the kids would look like."

Hey that brings up a good question--CAN they still reproduce? (not specifically with eachother, but with anyone?) There was nothing in the Weird Sisters' words while casting the spell that would imply Demon and Macbeth's reproductive capabilities were lessened or wiped out. Hmm...over 1000 years, you'd think at least Macbeth would've fathered another child or twenty (then again, he seems intelligent enough that he'd figure out it might be cruel to himself to bring about a situation where he'd outlive even more family members). Or maybe Demona would've been the more likely one to wanna have a few eggs--wouldn't want to miss any breeding seasons, seeing as she'd wanna increase her species' numbers and all.

If that subject has already been covered in Ask Greg, apologies.

"there should be a poll on what the strangest matchup in Gargoyles would be..."

How about we make that one of the subjects for this coming week? Keep it in-species though so it doesn't get TOO goofy, or at least of comparable intelligence. So no Bronx/Titania or Cagney/Coldstone match-ups. But human/gargoyle (or Olymian or Fae or alien) is fine, as well as opposite or same-sex pairings.

I'll see what others come up with, then try to think up one of the strangest myself.
Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 29, 2006 1:09:12 am EST from 69.17.169.178

Jurgan: Yup, I was on a friend's computer
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 10:51:05 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Goldfish: He was saying that it's supposed to be impossible to post without your personal preferences (text color, picture, signature, etc.), because your computer remembers it. My guess, though, is that you weren't using your regular computer, and so forgot that you needed to enter your info the first time you post on a specific computer. Am I right?
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with. This is an affectation up with which I will not put." -Winston Churchill
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 10:09:40 pm EST from 68.58.253.131

Spen: What is supposed to be impossible?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 10:02:22 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Matt, Purplegoldfish: I'm glad you like the screenshots!! :D

Guandalug: Check your e-mail! I sent you a synopsis for one of the TGC eps. I'm working on another one as we speak. :P
D. Taina - [<-- Screenshots!]
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 9:31:37 pm EST from 172.128.63.169

Lynati, you out there?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 7:51:00 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Matt : If I recall correctly, Lynati made a blueprint of the castle a few months ago.

Purplegoldfish : Isn't that supposed to be impossible nowdays?
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 4:26:46 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

Oops, that last post was mine.
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 1:37:06 pm EST from 68.54.117.52

Lol Dtaina! "more importantly, never tried to kill him"
Yes, that's the first priority in any healthy relationship ;) And your pans are gorgeous, great work!

broad23way: It's good you have such enthusiasm for the show, but you are missing a lot of points. As Dtaina siad, Xanatos didn't have anything to do with Goliath and Demona seperating. It's her own inability to let go of her hate that drove them apart. Nothing is simple with Demona, she's a very complex character. And as GregB. put it earlier, she's her own worst enemy.

This led me to a random thought: Let's say there's an alternate universe (post Hunter's Moon); and the only difference in this Universe is that Demona CAN be killed by someone other than Macbeth. Let's say that Demona kills Elisa. Would Goliath be capable to go after Demona and kill her? What do you all think? :)
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 1:35:47 pm EST from 68.54.117.52

D. Taina> great screenshots. some of those are outright beautiful. i love the rookery, so cool. only counted 19 eggs, guess the other 17 were in another pit.

another cool thing is the different views of Castle Wyvern, particularly the ones looking down on it from above. kinda good to get a sense of where things are in the castle. you can see where the Great Hall is and where the courtyard is where Elisa first spotted Hudson. its also cool to think that the main yard behind the main gate where the refuges camped out would later be the exact spot where Fox would land the helicopter 1001 years later.

has anyone ever done any blueprints of the castle?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Sat, Jan 28, 2006 1:31:28 am EST from 24.182.146.1

D. Taina: I concur. I think Greg said that for Demona, it was basically over in the third act of "Awakening, Part V." From there, it took Goliath a while to really accept it.

Broad23way: As far as Brooklyn was concerned, there was another written in the cards for him. Click my name.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Ninja do not fear death!" -Kyodai Ken, shortly before he may or may not have died.
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 11:18:38 pm EST from 69.174.9.166

"I reaaly understan why Goliath left Demona. She wanted to destroy the race of humanity. I think thats what ticked him off."

ya think?
ROFLMAO
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 10:19:43 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Broad23way: "I reaaly understan why Goliath left Demona. She wanted to destroy the race of humanity. I think thats what ticked him off. And especially Xanatos for using his former mate as a divice of destroying a relationship between two lovers. Please pardon my french, That Xanatos is a sick fucking bastard! I mean that as a fact! I would never break a couple apart! never! as long as i live! even in my 2nd life!"

Xanatos didn't break them up. Demona willingly allied herself with Xanatos and tried to kill Goliath not once, not twice, but three times in one night. In Temptation, she tried to enslave Goliath for eternity. In Long Way to Morning, she shot him and nearly killed him. The list goes on and on. Just because he loves Demona doesn't mean he has to stay in an abusive relationship. Why wouldn't he want to be happy with Elisa? Elisa was the only one who showed him love and, more importantly, never tried to kill him. What was Demona doing? Oh yeah, she kept trying to kill him. Repeatedly.

You say Xanatos broke them up? That Goliath left Demona? I say Demona pushed him away (or, more accurately, blasted him away) and she has no one to blame but herself. I'm glad Goliath moved on.
D. Taina - [<-- Screenshots!]
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 7:04:08 pm EST from 172.131.145.146

broad23way> Read this link:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=262
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 6:51:25 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

HEy, this is my first time chatting, especially with gargoyles fans, how manyof us are there? when i first watched gargoyles, i was like, omg! This here is freakin sweet. this is better than life! in your current chat, you were talking about Demona,here's what i have to say about her. Dam, she is sooo sexy. I wish Goliath stayed with her! that Elisa maza is a complete She was probably thinking " jeeeze, he is faster than them small-town boys that aren't that fast enough"! What was Goliath thinking?
you know, when Demona was with macbeth, she could have killed him while she had the chance, before the wierd sisters casted that spell on them in 'city of stone'. As for her daught Angela, she is sizzling! I am proud that she chose Broadway instead of brooklyn. he would just use and abuse her , plus tick off Goliath for eternity! I proud that Angela had sense to choose Broadway, I am sure that she was looking for a guy that shows compassion. A guy that shows comapssion is what every girl needs. really! just for get what i type at the top about elisa. Goliath always showed compassion to her, and even loved her as a mate. I reaaly understan why Goliath left Demona. She wanted to destroy the race of humanity. I think thats what ticked him off. And especially Xanatos for using his former mate as a divice of destroying a relationship between two lovers. Please pardon my french, That Xanatos is a sick fucking bastard! I mean that as a fact! I would never break a couple apart! never! as long as i live! even in my 2nd life!
please email me.
broad23way - [broad23way@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 6:44:16 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

I checked a few minutes ago, and the queue is still open. It isn't supposed to close until January 31, anyway.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 6:42:24 pm EST from 4.244.211.91

Matt:maybe it wasn't me..maybe it was the Hudson avatar :p

the Unanswered Questions at Ask Greg seem to be closed now... maybe that'll help the problem

PGF: it's just 3 random episodes, as far as I know Goof Troop only had one 2part episode I don't know about Quack Pack.. but I can't see good sales on either of these much less promotion..
starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 5:20:08 pm EST from 168.103.156.22

Starlioness: Only three episodes on a disk? That's strange, maybe it's a story arc on their show, like Greg wanted to do with Hunter's Moon?
Btw, I *adore* Shrek 2. Well, to each their own neh? :)

It would have been awesome if the Awakening five parter was in theatres. All it would need is to be edited together and few animation tweaks here and there, but otherwise, it's perfect. It certainly is a lot better than some of the crap I have been forced to watch on the big screen. The fanbase would be a lot bigger too.
Kind of a different subject: I remember talk of that live action movie in the works. But I was never quite cool with the idea. I think if any movie were to be made, even if it were a rehash of the pilot, I would prefer it to be animated. (preferrably 2-D).

Matt: Did you read this one?
"why have my african greys mated for three weeks a couple of times a day in november/ december and they still have no eggs is there a reason?"
*Sigh* How do they find this place?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 4:35:22 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

MATT> I really think these people are doing it on purpose.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 4:08:38 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

sorry for the double post, but i doubt anyone will mind:

anybody else see this:

"catrina writes...
Did
the mayan's really deal with gay marriges?"

yikes, these people are just getting weird, i mean this is beyond frustrating or annoying... its just strange. i'm a gay man and a huge fan of the Mayan Clan and i still have no idea what this person is asking...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 3:41:38 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

*points* starlioness killed the Room!

: )
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 3:38:22 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

wow.. this is quiet ..O_o
starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 3:33:04 pm EST from 168.103.156.22

actually PGF, be even more grateful when you find out that Goof Troop and Quack Pack are only getting a 3 episode disc set.. never liked Quack Pack but I was surprised about Goof Troop *shrugs*..

awww... I like Stitch ,if your ignore the marketing ad nauseum at least it wasn't as bad as Shrek 2 *sigh*

I kinda wonder what would it would've been to have Awakenings premiere in theaters, granted at that time all Box office would've been squashed by Lion King or Toy Story...in 93 would've been good since there weren't any blockbusters that year except maybe Nightmare before Christmas.. just a thought...
starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 4:26:27 am EST from 168.103.156.22

Steve Jobs is a fan? I didn't know that
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 1:33:21 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Don't know if this is common knowledge yet, but Disney acquired Pixar in the past week or so. However, to accomplish this feat they had to offer Jobs a major chunk of Disney stock--and is now the largest single holder of stock in that company. Another interesting note: guess who is a rather large fan of Gargoyles? Gives us all something to think about, doesn't it?
oneuke
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 1:19:01 am EST from 66.167.104.89

Demonskrye: What you said about "Ducktales" and "Recue Rangers" makes me feel better about "Gargoyles". At least they included all the episodes. Sheesh.
Yes, and I remember all the crazy advertising they did for Lilo and Stitch. I went to Disneyworld just before its release, and the ad nauseum surrounding that blue alien there almost drove me to the brink of insanity. I vaguely remember that Jasmine picture too. I always kind of thought that was cool, and in her character. I was very much into the Aladdin fandom before Gargoyles came along. Coincidentally I didn't like "lilo and Stitch" that much *g*.

Spen: Aha! That's where it's from. You know, all this time I didn't know what Derek was referring to with that "snidely Whiplash" line, but I always liked it for some reason lol. Thanks for clearing that up :)
But I'm still glad the "moose" line was cut out. I can see Derek quoting from Rocky and Bullwinkle...but not Brod.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 27, 2006 12:46:35 am EST from 64.12.116.8

Purplegoldfish : "Heh, I have no idea what that means." It's a Rocky & Bullwinkle referance. And it wouldn't be the only one in the show, there was also Derek's line in "Metamophasis" about Xanatos not being the reincarnation of Snidley Whiplash.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 10:43:33 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

Good Disney/Bad Disney> The thing you really need to remember when talking about "Disney" is that they are a HUGE company made up of many, many parts and many more individual people. So it's perfectlty reasonable to love some things they do and hate others. Going with the "marketing geniuses" idea, there are a lot of places where the DIsney company has marketed a product really well. I think one of the best examples was the theatrical release campaign for "Lilo and Stitch". You had this really fun promotional campaign which got people's attention and conveyed the idea that this was going to be an atypical Disney film about an atypical DIsney character. My favorite aspect is how they ran with the idea that Jasmine actually likes Stitch, as seen in the "Aladdin" promo. Check out the poster with all the traditional Disney characters looking at Stitch in shock and disgust; Jasmine is the only one smiling at the little guy. But just because that one film was marketed very well doesn't mean every Disney movie gets the same loving treatment. The same goes for DVDs. You get everything from beautiful 2-disc special editions like "Bambi", with the brilliant move of having voice actors read old story session notes for commentary; to the bare bones "DuckTales" and "Resuce Rangers" DVDs which didn't even bother to include the 5 part pilots. In fact, Disney's sixe as a company sometimes prevents the left hand from being at all aware of what the right hand is up to. So you get things like a special edition DVD of the aformentioned "Lilo and Stitch" being prepared but never released (despite frequent rumors that it's on the way), or "Team Atlantis" continuing into production long after the film had failed to meet box office expectations. When you have such a big company with such a vast output, it's hard not to feel at least a bit conflicted in your overall opinion of them
Demonskrye
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 9:07:54 pm EST from 209.6.250.47

payphone: Yeah, I just remembered the camera zoomed up on it in that scene. I never really understood what that meant either until now.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 7:30:32 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

One thing that I'm especially grateful about regarding Greg's "Turf" ramble is that we finally have an explanation for the scene where, while Brod's favorite restaurant is on fire, the camera focuses on a nearby payphone. I'd been wondering about the significance of that part for quite some time.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 7:18:34 pm EST from 4.244.18.31

It really got quiet in here. Yeay new ramble! :D Thanks for the head's up matt.
You know, it's weird, Greg's latest rambles are coinciding almost exactly with Toon Disney's airing schedule. "Turf" is the next ep on Saturday night. Kinda weird, since Greg doesn't have Toon Disney.

Some of my own thoughts on Turf:
An OK episode, not one of my favorties, but it has its moments.
I never realized that Clancy Brown did Brod's voice, and I didn't realize that the Jack Danforth guy was the same one from "Revelations" until not too long ago. I guess I'm slow ;)
Lol, uh, is "gokked" a word? And I'm glad they didn't use that "moose and squirrel" line in there. Heh, I have no idea what that means.

I think the first time I watched this ep, I knew right away that "Salli" was really Elisa. I think it was the voice and the skin color that gave it away. And I really liked her little conversation with Angela about the trio. I also liked what Greg put in there about Elisa being a "young step-mother" to Angela. Hmmmm... Greg always seemed to be going more for the "Big/little sister" thing with those two, but maybe he's changing his mind.

I liked the stuff with the trio fighting over Angela. Though I think Brooklyn was particularly being a jerk. He really was abusing his power of second, always pitting himself with Angela and leaving the other two behind.

I have to disagree with Greg on a few things: Putting Elisa undercover in that assignment because she's an "unfamiliar face". I would think she would be the worst candidate for the job, seeing as how Dracon, most of his men, and Brod knows what she looks like. And seeing as how Dracon outted her during the cell raid proves that point.

Also, Greg may like how Brod and Dracon end up in the cell together at the end, but I hate it. It's not realistic. Speaking as someone who's father works in the prison system, There is a snowball's chance in Hell that would ever happen.

Comics: I too am very much looking forward to the comics. I really hope they have a long healthy run. I probably will buy at least two of each issue, and coming from a person who has never purchased a comic book in her life, that's saying a lot :)
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 6:24:04 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

sorry for the double post, but Greg just put out his "Turf" ramble!!!
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 5:16:37 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

everyone wants a S2:V2 release, and i think its likely we'll get one, but most my hopes these days are focused on the comic. if it ends after 11 issues like the Marvel one i'll be heartbroken. i dunno if Gargoyles will ever get new episodes to the small screen again, but this comic book is a great oppurtunity. not only will it be the first canon stories in years, but i think its success is in some ways more important than the success of the DVDs. the comics must not fail. they are a lot cheaper than the DVDs, so we sure as hell better have everyone buying these things like mad. i'm sure i'll buy at least 2 of every issue, something i couldn't do with the DVDs.

does anyone know if the comics are going to be out once a month or more or less?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 5:11:52 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Matt: I have kind a love/hate feeling when it comes to Disney, so I tend to contradict myself when it comes to them. But I don't think I was condradicting myself there. I was basically saying that the Disney Corporation has done so well for so many decades because of their ability to sell their product. If they really wanted to get the most out of the Gargoye DVDs, they could.

And I'm not asking for much. I don't think it would have been that hard for them to play a few episodes in prime time on toon Disney or ABC Family around the time of the DVD release, maybe have a bottom crawler mentioning the DVD going across the screen. And they advertise the crap out of Garbage like "Power Rangers" They even have their stupid advertising crawlers at the bottom of the screen during Gargoyles. I HATE that. And yes, I know that PR makes a lot more revenue in merchandise from Gargoyles, but still...

I am glad that Toon Disney plays the show at all, but they show it every Sunday and Monday at 1:30 a.m. I mean, come on, the least they could do is let people watch the show without a Power Rangers ad obstructing half the screen.

but I am happy and grateful that we are getting the DVDs and the comic after all these years. *Crosses fingers for Volume II release.*

Anyway, I'm getting tired of talking about this :)
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 4:45:35 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

i imagine that spells are a lot like mixing sugar and water. casting the spell requires pouring the sugar into the water. the sugar dissolves into the water and then its much more difficult to seperate them again. with third-race spells it seems that undoing a spell may take much more energy than merely casting it in the first place. i can see how the Weird Sisters could be powerful enough to cast the Demona/Macbeth spell, but not be powerful enough to undo the spell. whether Oberon or Titania or anyone else is strong enough to undo it remains to be seen, but as Greg said "I doubt it."
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 1:04:02 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Guandalug: I'll be sending you one of the synopses either later today or tomorrow. I'll work on the other six as I find the time. Don't worry, you'll get your synopses! ;)
D. Taina - [<-- Screenshots!]
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 12:59:16 pm EST from 172.144.226.6

I own and entire set of the old "Gargoyles" comics but I've never read them out of paranoia that I'd be damaging their value merely by so much as breathing on them.

This thing about the Weird Sisters being unable to undo their own spell... omnipotence paradox, anyone? Can a trio of beings with semi-phenomenal, nearly cosmic magical powers create a spell so strong even the three of them together cannot break it?

Going a step further... Could the Weird Sisters create a spell that Titania or Oberon could not break?

148 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Los Angeles, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"It's one o'clock and time for lunch..." - Genesis
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 12:55:23 pm EST from 24.106.128.24

Jurgan> No, there won't be ANY problem in more verbosity. In fact, I'd rather enhance the other comic summaries as well.... at least those I do have myself should be easy to do, but I didn'T want to ask for those until I get the other stuff completed. Yet, any submission for the GFW is welcome.
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 5:13:14 am EST from 129.217.139.211

thanks for finding that Jurgen, guess that solves that...

purplegoldfish> not to be rude, but you call the people at Disney "marketing geniuses" and then say they were not advertising for the DVD(s) intelligently...? umm, are they good at marketing or bad at it?
i'm sure they did what they felt was going to be the most profitable... maybe part of their decision to do very little advertising was because they knew they had a pretty powerful FREE advertising ally, the fans. it wouldn't surprise me if they relied a lot on us to boost sales.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Thu, Jan 26, 2006 12:51:05 am EST from 24.182.146.1

Guandalug: I actually volunteered a while ago to do a write-up on "The Egg and I," but I was too busy at the time. I could start working on it now. I did have a question about what you wanted with them, though. The problem is that most of the other ones I saw were very short, and I'd probably go on for a while. It wouldn't be a problem if I had a lot to say, would it?

I could conceive of a Demona/Macbeth romantic relationship in the distant future, but not any time soon. Anyone else, though, would be doomed to die and leave him or her alone yet again. And to whoever asked about whether the Sisters could remove the spell, here's an answer:

"Question received on Fri, March 30, 2001 07:00:56 PM
Oberon writes...

In the Wierd Sisters incantation on Macbrth and demona they say "forever and eternal bound" so my quetion is
1) Can the Wierd Sister undo their spell
2) Can anyone else (with the exception of D and M killing each other)
Greg responds...

1. Nope.
2. Doubt it.
Response recorded on June 09, 2001"

So there you have it. They truly are forever and eternal bound.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with. This is an affectation up with which I will not put." -Winston Churchill
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 11:51:14 pm EST from 68.58.253.131

normally I don't double post to correct typos but "shooting out my mouth" sounds wrong lol :D
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 11:47:46 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Alex Garg: Yes, what you say makes sense. I know advertising is very expensive. And it would be horrible if they lost money on the DVDS.(for us, not for them) But I can't help but think that they would make a lot more by advertising. Besides, those guys are marketing geniuses. I'm sure they could figure out how to get the most bang for their buck with the DVDs.

Starlioness: It's good to be optimistic.
Heh, "Banshee's top ten hits" I like that too :)

Harvester: Hehe, that's not too bad. I too have a bad habit of shooting out my mouth before I think sometimes. I've gotten my fair share of weird looks in my time ;) It was a shame about Jonathin Brandis though.

Spen: Ah ok lol
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 11:43:53 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Purplegoldfish : "How do you know his name?" I pay *way* too much attention to the end credits.
Spen
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 11:17:04 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

Greg B: I've read a few of those. My own personal stance, though, is that seeing Demona naked would be the best way for a human to significantly shorten their lifespan (that is, if he/she gets caught, but I ain't going there). I also think that in the canon Gargoyles universe, if her revelation at the end of City of Stone IV didn't teach her anything, there's not much Angela would be able to do. But I've said both those things before, a couple times.

Purplegoldfish: Your mentioning "Seaquest" reminded me of an amusing story from my college days. Well, dark, but still amusing for people who like dark humor. My roommate and I were discussing random Scifi series one night, and the mention of Seaquest prompted him to look up Jonathon Brandis on imdb. And then we found out that he had committed suicide not too long ago. And the first thing that came out of my mouth was "that explains why we haven't seen him in anything in a while." Cold, I know, but it was like I couldn't control it. It was perhaps the first time that I seriously thought I might be disturbed (other people had told me this, but people tell me things all the time, I can't be expected to remember all of it).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Ninja do not fear death!" -Kyodai Ken
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 10:41:55 pm EST from 69.174.9.166

Demona/Macbeth relationship.. I suppose anything's possible though I think it would be kinda weird ..wonder what the kids would look like.

as for Demona's next love.. I almost thought you guys were referring to Jon Canmore/Castaway or one of the Hunters/Quarrymen..

or even Angela ...*twitches*.. I wonder what Coldsteel and Demona's relationship would be like ..

there should be a poll on what the strangest matchup in Gargoyles would be...

but I have to admit I can't think about a Demona/Elisa relationship without barfing.I'd rather have her going out with Xanatos or Dracon... well,... maybe not Dracon :p

I have to admit it was pretty clever of Greg adding a Demona/Elisa clone/hybrid in Gargoyles, sheer irony if I do say so my self.

Garg DVD's: maybe I'm overoptimistic, but it would be absolute lunacy for them not to make Season 2 Vol II...
I'm pretty sure a horde of angry Gargoyle fans at Disney studios isn't a pretty sight..

as for torture of the DVD Marketer .. don't forget there's always the Hotel Cabal or Banshee's Top Ten Hits :)

though I have to admit the only place I have seen Season 2 so far is at Best Buy, hmmm..
Starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 10:28:52 pm EST from 168.103.156.22

Hehe. The only Gargoyles comic I own just happens to be #9 - The Egg and I.
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 9:45:08 pm EST from 202.87.162.31

Guandalug la'Fay> The comic issue with the Egg, i guess #9 was the best of the comics IMHO. in fact, i enjoyed it so much that i have two copies, one sealed in plastic. so, i WOULD do the review/synopsis of it, but unfortunatly i havn't read the comic in years and it is in storage at my mom's house several hours away from here! next time i go home i'll retrieve it, if you want.

Demona/Macbeth> i think a relationship with them is POSSIBLE, but i don't think it'll happen. i can see them becoming friends, maybe even close friends, but lovers? no, they've had too odd of a long term relationship for that. i think it would be too strange for both of them. i do agree with Jurgen that in the end they might mutually kill each other together to end it, that seems like a noble end for them both. finally dieing together, but peacefully, unlike all their more violent deaths.

a lot of the more interesting relationships in G:2198 are going to focus around Demona. i mean you've got Brooklyn/Demona, Samson/Demona, Delilah/Demona, Owen/Demona... it'll be interesting.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 9:41:13 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Purplegoldfish>> It is frustrating, but there is one element that gets overlooked when complaining about advertising: the cost.

Although it looks simple, the production and execution of an ad campaign is complicated and expensive, particularly if your medium of choice is television. And, as you said yourself, many fans of the show in its original run have long since forgotten about it; and its attraction on the latest crowd of cartoon-viewers in rerun form is not certain.

That said, while Disney *could* make money off the DVD - after production and distribution costs - they can and *will* make more of it if they don't build up advertising costs.

You're right, it is in Disney's interests to hype the DVD to make money, but it's also in their greater interest to *not* invest heavily in uncertain property and make as much money they can with as little cost as they can.

It's simple business. Unfortunate, maybe, but business all the same.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 8:06:52 pm EST from 216.145.68.238

Ok, I know I am going way off topic here, but I just HAVE to rant. I have been gleaning through some of the old archives here and came across a discussion about Disney's advertising (or lack thereof) of the Gargoyles Season 1 DVD.

Now, this is why I bring this up. Quite a few years back I was into a show called "Seaquest DSV" (Kind of a corny ripoff of Star Trek, but it had its charm). But it has since vanished from my radar. A few weeks ago, I was watching the SCi-Fi channel and learned they were playing a week long "Sea Quest" marathon, and during every commercial break was an ad for the newly released first season DVD of that series. (The marathon was obviously a marketing strategy to sell the DVDS) I didn't even know a DVD for the show was in the works until I saw those ads.

This had me thinking about the Gargoyle DVDs and Disney's non-advertising. Just think of all those Gargoyles fans out there who watched the show a long time ago, but has forgotton it, and those fans who are not part of the online fandom (like me and "Seaquest"), who would have no idea the DVDs even exist! If they don't know the DVDS exist, how could they want for it? Disney is relying on the off-chance these people will happen to come across the DVDS on a store shelf. (The only store I have ever seen them in is Best Buy).

If Toon Disney or one of its affiliates had done what Sci-Fi did; advertise the DVD and show some eps from the series the week the DVD came out; Just imagine how much more fans might have come out of the woodwork again, and how much more DVDS would be sold.

I don't understand Disney. THEY'RE the ones getting the money from this. When they don't advertise, they are hurting themselves. I'm really starting to think that they don't want this show to succeed.

I know we can't do anything about it, and it's so frustrating. If the Season 2 pt 1 DVD doesn't sell well enough, and we don't get the second part because of THEIR IDIOCY...GGGRRRR, I don't even want to think about it...*Fuming* >:(

I think we should take whoever is in charge of DVD marketing up there (particularly the one who decided not to advertise "Gargoyles" and condemn him/her to have to listen to the name Eg_n P@x repeated over and over until the end of time!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you all think? ;)

*Aherm*...back on topic:
Greg: I agree with what you say about Demona. You seem to have a very good understanding of her. I too don't think that a romantic relationship between her and Macbeth in the VAST future is that far-fetched.
Todd: I had a feeling you were talking about Elisa ;). There are some Weird fanfictions going around...O_0;
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 7:45:43 pm EST from 205.188.117.68

Jurgan> Great. Just send it my way when you're done with it.. plain text is okay, just put it into your email, attach it - whatever. Just please don't pre-format it in HTML..... :)

Oh, and if anybody else in here thinks he's got an essay that's garg-related and wants it to be posted - send it all my way, and I'll update the GFW! I might be the maintainer of that site, but it's the Fans' site, after all - I need input to put new things onto the site. This goes for Filk songs and poems as well as Merchandise (reminds me, I really ought to put the two DVD sets up in Merchandise).

Speaking of input - there's still a few fans out there (you know who you are - don't make me come and pull at your ears in person) who promised me an episode synopsis. It's 6 episodes in Season 2, and 7 in Season 3 that need a Synopsis. And then, I still need _one_ summary (and mayhaps a review) for an old Marvel comic: the page of issue 9, labeled 'The egg and I', is completely empty. I unfortunately lack said issue, so I cannot do it. Is there ANYBODY here who could lend me a hand and fill in the blanks? I'd rather have this done BEFORE Greg Weisman, Creature Comics and Slave Labour Graphics start issuing NEW comics (which, in turn, will be summed up and reviewed on the webpage). My email address is open for any kind of submission (except spam, that is).
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 7:33:43 pm EST from 80.145.44.3

LOL, no arguments here. That being said, you wouldn't believe how popular it is in the fanfiction sect these years.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 7:17:40 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

BISHANSKY - Well, since you asked, I'd say that the most improbable relationship for Demona that I can think of - one that I simply cannot see happening, even more than I cannot see Demona/Macbeth happening - is a lesbian relationship with Elisa.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 7:05:49 pm EST from 4.245.17.72

Forgot to add, yeah, I could be wrong. I probably am wrong. But I do suspect that Macbeth is one of the next two... probably the second and last.

No idea as to who the other is.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 6:58:53 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I'm not talking about in the immediete, or even near future. I'm talking about some time in the 2198 series. I'll admit, I have long suspected that this is the direction Greg would eventually take them.

Yeah, right now, there is no chance in Hell it would happen, and of course Macbeth had the marriage annuled. But things can change with 200+ years.

What I am getting at is that, in "Gargoyles", people who hook uptend to have a deep understanding of each other. Xanatos and Fox, Goliath and Elisa, Broadway and Angela, etc. Both Demona and Macbeth have been alive for so long, and yeah, they hate each other, despise each other. But, it wasn't always like that. Despite everything, both of them are alone, and both of them understand each other. Who knows what the future holds for both of them?

Demona definetly seemed to be at least a little in love with Macbeth while he was King of Scotland (Greg even says so in the audio commentary), and well, since it's Demona, I see this as a huge deal.

Aw well, got to ramble about this, without going into my R-rated creativity demon ;)

So, Todd, who is your guess?
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 6:56:39 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

BISHANSKY - Re your remarks about Macbeth and Demona's future: I doubt that they'll ever become a couple in any way, shape, or form, the numerous fanfics out there notwithstanding. I've always been of the opinion that Macbeth had his marriage to Demona annulled in a hurry after "Sanctuary", and that Demona did nothing to stop it, for the reason that why would she want to stay married to him? Her scheme of getting his money had failed, and in light of how much she hates humans, I doubt that she'd want to continue to be married to one. (Truth to tell, I've sometimes suspected that Demona must have only put up with the whole kissing Macbeth and taking romantic walks with him in Paris, etc., only because she figured that the pay-off afterwards would be worth it.) I don't know if Greg Weisman still has plans for Demona to have two great loves in her future, but I'd be extremely surprised if either of them was Macbeth. In fact, the only love more unlikely for Demona would be - but I won't say anything about that because of the room's rating also.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 6:45:19 pm EST from 4.245.17.72

We don't know what kind of relationship Demona and Angela will have, but according to Greg, she is still plotting against humanity in 2198, when the Space-Spawn invade, and teams up with Samson only because she sees the aliens as the greater immediete threat. Greg has also said that initially, in 2198, Demona does not get along with anyone.

So, well, it is sad, but I highly doubt Angela is going to live long enough to see Demona find redemption.

Though, I've always said, that, if anything, I think Angela is going to be Demona's new excuse. Most fanfic out there makes Angela Demona's incentive to change. Usually, it involves Angela wagging a finger in Demona's face. But, well, if anything, I think it'd be the opposite. With humanity knowing the gargoyles exist, the Quarrymen out there, Demona is likely to justify destroying humanity by saying it's to protect Angela.

Yeah, it is sad. Angela wants to redeem her mother, but she won't live to see it happen. But, I guess that's life. Maybe Demona needs to lose a chance at having a real relationship with her daughter to realise she's been on the wrong path.

Remember, she is her own worst enemy.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 2:12:54 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

thanks Jurgen, its kinda what i figured, but i don't like to assume anything. i'm a fan of MST3K, by brother and i would watch it all the time, but i'm in college now and hes got a new baby so we are both pretty busy.

Demona> i was thinking whilst eating lunch just now, and i thought Demona has obviously been around 1000+ years, and most that time she was quite alone, but we know she survives at least until 2198 and in those years shes not so alone, her Goliath and the Clan is awake and knows of her, Angela and her have a relationship, Macbeth has tracked her down, and theres lots more gargoyles popping out of the woodwork. certainly the next two hundred years are gonna be pretty interesting with Demona. i dunno, between the fall of the Moray Clan and the reawakening of Goliath and Co, it just doesn't seem like Demona did a whole lot, of course, anything is possible.
it makes me sad that Demona is gonna have to be around when Angela eventually dies, thats gonna be rough. gotta wonder how she'll feel about Goliath's death too...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 1:55:02 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Guandalug: I'd love to have that essay hosted. BUT, although I've had it in my head for about a month now, it was a very spur-of-the-moment decision to write it, one that kept me up until 4:00 A.M., and so I'd like to edit it a bit before submitting it for posterity. So, give me a couple of days to work it over, and it's all yours.

Matt: Back in, I think, the late 80's, some guys in Minnesota on public access television got an idea for high-concept comedy: They'd watch bad movies and make fun of them. The show was called Mystery Science Theater 3000, or MST3K for short. They'd find old B sci-fi movies and have three characters (a human and two deliberately fake-looking robots) sit in front of a theater screen watching them, making jokes at the movie's expense. While the movies they watched were bad, they had sort of a "so bad it's good" feel to them, and they were soon loved by a hardcore group of cult fans. Pretty soon, it was showing all over the country, first on Comedy Central and later on Sci-Fi network. When I first heard about the show, I couldn't believe it really existed- how could you have a whole show just making fun of bad movies? But it has to be seen to be believed, because the guys were so brilliant that you laughed your ass off in every movie. Also, I think a lot of it was that, as is the key to great parody, they knew that the movies were ridiculous but they still loved them. Anyway, with the advent of fanfiction, a lot of people got the idea of doing the same thing: MSTing fanfics. They'd find really bad fanfics, collect a crew of characters, either their own or characters from other existing properties, and write their own witty commments into the text making fun of the fics. Some are very good- the only problem is that many of them seem content to yell at how bad the fics are without really being funny.

That's my brief history of MSTing. Now, as for my own MSTing: I've never written any individually. However, back when I was an active member of the Ayeka Fan Club, which is devoted to Tenchi Muyo! and one character in particular, we started doing group MSTings on the message board: someone (usually me) would post sections of a bad fanfiction, and we'd each take turns MSTing it with our own crews. Another member used Brooklyn in his crew, and he was probably the best of any of us. What really made those fun was when the different crews started interacting with each other. For instance, my brother at one point used Demona in his crew. So, have Macbeth and Demona together in a crowded theater against their will exposed to the high stress of watching very bad fanfiction... sounds like a recipe for fun, eh? So Macbeth attacked Demona (saying "it ends tonight," like he always does), until the Weird Sisters intervened, stopping them from killing each other because they'd made a deal with Sauron that Demona and Macbeth would MST the entire fic... Yes, you read that right. It was every bit as insane as it sounds, and it was a blast. Here's the link to the first one: http://p208.ezboard.com/ftheayekafanclubfrm2.showMessage?topicID=8.topic
To see the others, just choose jump to: RPG board.

Is that it? I think I've said everything I wanted to say...
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 1:44:49 pm EST from 169.150.128.50

so, does MST stand for Mystery Science Theater, as in MST3K? cuz then i totally get it, great show and movie.

Demona/Macbeth> did anyone ever ask Greg if it was POSSIBLE that the Weird Sisters could release Demona and Macbeth from that spell? if Greg ruled that out (either cuz they can't or they won't) thats fine, but if that is still a possibility it could offer them a "final solution".
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 1:22:52 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

I think it's a little bit of both, actual immortality, as well as fate.

I could share my own thoughts on Demona and Macbeth's future, but, this is a PG Comment Room ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 12:37:08 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Wow Jurgan, that was a great post. You know, I never thought about it that way (not consciously anyway). Kind of brings up that age old question of Fate vs. Free Will. Does the prophesy come true because it's fated to come true? Or does it come true because the characters hear of the prophesy, and of their own free wills make it come true. Gahhh, my head hurts.

BUT...What if Demona HAD been smashed in stone sleep??...J/k ;)

MSTing: Kind of hard to explain. It's a fanfiction in where the author pastes the fiction of another author (usually a very BAD fanfiction) word for word, and comments on it humorously. Much of the time, the "commentators" of the MSTed work are characters from the show or the own author's OC characters. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense ;). The only ones I read are by Jerr Berr and Mara Cordova in the GFA.

Jurgan: I'de like to read that Macbeth MST you wrote. Mind posting a link for it?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 12:30:05 pm EST from 205.188.117.68

What do y'all think of the Disney/Pixar merger? Here's to hoping Jobs or Lasseter is a closeted Gargoyles fan. ;)

Either way, I think it's good news for Disney and animation fans. They've been hurting creatively and making bad business decisions for years (how many Aladdin sequels are we up to now?). Maybe some of that Pixar mojo will rub off on the TV animation department.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose@karpacrossamerica.com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 11:53:05 am EST from 128.101.32.152

Jurgan: I like the idea of MacBeth and Demona facing each other at the end of time. It's got a nice romantic quality to it. Well, we do know that they're both still alive in 2198.

But anyway, for some reason, the end of your essay reminded me of this Japanese film I saw called "Versus," which is basically about a timeless battle. The spirits of the key players keep getting reincarnated in new vessels to continue the fight down through the centuries. The movie ends in the distant future, after man is (mostly) extinct, and they're still fighting.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Anyway, they say she comes on a pale horse, but I'm sure I hear a train..."
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 11:39:56 am EST from 69.174.1.148

Jurgen> well put. i think thats more or less what i've always felt. MacBeth won't get beheaded or Demona won't get shattered because they are not fated to. you wrote it out very clearly though.

hey, i asked this earlier, but no one answered, and since its benn mentioned again, i have to ask. what is MSTing?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 9:22:57 am EST from 24.182.146.1

Jurgan> *gasps* That essay is .... GREAT! Please..... allow me to add it to the 'Grimorum Arkanorum' on the GFW main page. This is PRECISELY the stuff I want to have there, and the last Update was THAT long ago...... yes, I'd REALLY like to have that text. Granted your permission, I can activate it - I already prepared the page. Brilliant essay.
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 6:46:54 am EST from 129.217.139.128

Curses and Prophecies: Macbeth and Demona vs. Harry Potter and Voldemort

(Warning: This essay contains spoilers for Harry Potter books five and six. It's mostly about Gargoyles, so if you don't read HP you'll still understand this, but if you plan to read them, you may wish to stop reading now.)

Like most people here, Gargoyles had a major impact on my life. For me, the best it ever got was City of Stone. In fact, I would say that CoS was one of the highlights of my childhood. I still distinctly remember, when I was twelve years old, reaching the end of Part Three, seeing Demona advancing on stone Elisa with a mace, and then the words "To be Concluded (or was it continued?)." "You're telling me I have to wait a whole day to see what happens? I'm supposed to go to school? Screw that, I want to know how Elisa survives!" The point I'm making is that I've thought long and hard about CoS, and the key to it is the relationship between Demona and Macbeth. In fact, I think the Weird Sisters' spellcasting is, from a classical sense, the climax of the entire story. On the surface, the spell seems simple enough: Demona and Macbeth are linked so they feel each others' pain, and they will live forever. If someone were to kill one of them, (s)he would die and then quickly come back to life. If one of them were to kill the other, though, then they would both die. As I say, it seems simple. After reading Greg's numerous responses on the subject, I began to think about whether there was more to it than meets the eye, and it slowly dawned on me that it was much more subtle, deep, and brilliant than I'd ever considered.

What got me thinking in the first place was Greg repeatedly receiving questions like "What would happen if Macbeth got his head cut off? Would it reattach itself? Would it grow back immediately?" Greg would always answer something like, "Well, that hasn't happened, has it?" At first, that seemed like just a weak cop out, with Greg trying to avoid a question he had no good answer to. In fact, Greg seemed to get pretty flustered at the way people kept projecting Highlander concepts onto Macbeth, which was probably inevitable given that they're both immortal Scottish nobles. Unlike Highlander, though, there aren't any explicitly stated rules as to how immortality works; all we have to go on is the Weird Sisters' words, and they clearly aren't the most trustworthy or forthcoming of people. Consider Greg's references to Luna being representative of fate, and then think about the fact that the spell doesn't really talk about "what if this or that happened," but rather "what will happen." The final words of (I believe) Luna to Macbeth in the past were that (quote approximate) "you will both live on, sharing each other's pain and anguish, until one destroys the other. Only then will you both finally perish together." From that, it's clear that the Sisters are not interested in playing hypotheticals about all the different ways things could happen: they simply pronounced what will happen. Rather than the spell being simply a safeguard against their dying, it could instead be thought of as a prophecy declaring quite simply what will happen to them in the future.

It turns out that at no point in the entire series do we see anything happen to either Demona or Macbeth that would be sure to kill them. In fact, there are only two times it really seems likely that one of them could die. The first is when Macbeth was stabbed in the back by Canmore. Painful, to be sure, but not necessarily lethal. I'm sure that there are those who have survived a poorly aimed stab. The second is when Elisa shot Demona with Macbeth's electric gun. That one seems even less likely, as I expect a minimum of three gargoyles to get shot with one of those things in any given Macbeth episode, and none of them died. One might make a case that the roller coaster collapse in The Reckoning was potentially lethal, but that falls under the old comicbook rule of "if you don't see the body, the guy's not dead," and the fact that we know Thailog would have survived as well makes it clear that magic was not necessary to survive that incident. So, we have established that we have never seen anything unquestionably fatal befall Demona or Macbeth. Furthermore, Greg has told us that no such thing has ever happened. Knowing that, it follows that it is meaningless to ask what if such a thing were to happen- it hasn't! Such speculation is what is known in mathematics and logic as a vacuous proof: If A occurs, then B occurs, given that A is impossible. The example I use is "All pink elephants can fly," or, more precisely, "If A is a pink elephant, then A can fly." This statement is absolutely true, since every pink elephant in the world can fly- there are none, so anything you can say about them is true. It's equally true that every pink elephant cannot fly. A simpler way of thinking about it, though less rigorous, is that you could never disprove the statement "all pink elephants can fly" since to disprove it you'd have to find a pink elephant that could not fly, which you can never do. What this means, then, is there's no point asking "what if Demona or Macbeth were beheaded," since it can't happen- it's true that if Macbeth were beheaded, he'd die, and it's true that if he were beheaded, he would be revived, and it's true that if he were beheaded, they'd both die, etc. All of those statements are true, because they are all based on an impossible hypothetical.

All right, I hear you saying, so neither of them have ever been beheaded. That still doesn't prove that neither of them could ever be beheaded. To answer that, it's worth thinking of the Weird Sisters' pronouncement as a prophecy rather than a spell. Let's assume that we can think of the entire Macbeth/Demona connection in these terms: The spell allows them long life and they share each others' pain. If one of them were killed, then because they share pain, the other would die too. Then we see that what Luna meant by saying that they would live on until one destroys the other is not that they are somehow magically protected from injury, but simply that she was predicting what would happen, as an avatar of fate. Such a prophecy brings Harry Potter to mind. When Harry was an infant, a prophecy was made which roughly stated that either he would kill Voldemort or Voldemort would kill him. That prophecy was overheard and found its way back to Voldemort, who immediately acted on it by attempting to kill Harry and fulfill it in a way favorable to him. In so doing, he nearly destroyed himself and gave Harry powers that would enable him to finish Voldemort once and for all. Moreover, he gave Harry a desire to end Voldemort. Harry lost his parents and knew first hand the sort of pain Voldemort inflicted on others, and so he would not rest until Voldemort was finished. On the other hand, Voldemort believed in the prophecy, and thus saw Harry as the greatest danger to him, so he would not rest until Harry was dead. So the result was that the two enemies were both determined to kill each other. As such, it was inevitable that one of them would eventually succeed, and the prophecy would be proven true. However, it was not true because of some incomprehensible hand of fate hovering over them, but rather it was based on simple extrapolations from the subjects' characters, and the fact that they knew about the prophecy (Rowling has acknowledged Shakespeare's Macbeth as an inspiration for that particular bit). The same can apply to Demona and Macbeth. At the time of the spell's casting, they were already great warriors, and with nine hundred years to practice, they would become even greater. So it's highly unlikely that anyone else would kill them, yet based on the events of their falling out, an intense hatred blossomed between them, one that made it inevitable that one would eventually kill the other. And since Macbeth heard the Weird Sisters' pronouncement, he believed that he could not die without killing Demona. It never would have even occurred to him to jump off a tall building and see what happened, because he believed that it wouldn't work. Plus, even if he thought it would work, he probably would still feel the need to settle the score with Demona first. With all of that in mind, it's not hard for the avatar of fate to predict that one of them will end up killing the other, and the fact that she makes the prediction helps it to occur. That has the added bonus of controlling any possible suicidal tendencies they might have by telling them it's impossible to commit suicide, since while Luna's side of their personality may simply be prophesying, Selene's needs them to survive for their future plans.

This theory may seems very complicated at first, but if you take the time to think about it, it makes more sense than most other explanations out there. Rather than rely on vague magic powers and convoluted rules of "what if Demona were smashed in the day?" this theory eliminates all of the guesswork and gives an answer without the ambiguity; one that ultimately is simple and inevitable, yet firmly in the hands of the players. By removing Macbeth and Demona's link from the spell of the Weird Sisters and thinking of it as a prophecy, we can help resolve the fate vs. free will argument. Luna is an embodiment of fate, and so she is able to make predictions in the future, yet they are based simply on reading the characters of the subjects. While the prophecy that Demona and Macbeth will eventually die when one kills the other is a pronouncement of fate, it is only made true because of Demona's lack of trust and irresponsibility and Macbeth's lust for vengeance. The same could be said of the prophecy that Macbeth, Lulach, and Canmore would all become king- it wasn't hard to see that Duncan's paranoia would lead to him moving against Macbeth, a confrontation which would ultimately lead to Macbeth's ascension. If I'm right about all of this, than a final reckoning is still in the works for Macbeth and Demona, despite the fact Macbeth seemed almost ready to end the feud after Sanctuary. However, we don't know how it will come- maybe it is due thousands or millions of years in the future, after the stars burn out and they're the last people left alive in the galaxy, at which point they mutually decide that it's best for them to die together. I can picture them taking each other in their arms and together going to their final rest. That's kind of a beautiful image. We've got no way of knowing what will truly happen, but one thing seems sure: they have certainly not seen the last of each other.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with. This is an affectation up with which I will not put." -Winston Churchill
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 3:37:50 am EST from 68.58.253.131

Ah, what the hell. I still consider it my finest contribution to the fandom thus far (as well as my drunkest). So here's the link to the week that I conducted my study. It's about halfway down.

And a note concerning Avatars I forgot to mention in the last post: I find it weird that every clone except Burbank has got one.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"In an interstellar burst, I am back to save the universe."
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 1:12:15 am EST from 69.174.1.148

Seeing how people censored the name as E--n P-x, I actually started using it as my own personal curse word, as in "what in the name of Egon Pax is going on?" It was very useful at work, since I obviously couldn't swear in front of customers.

My favorite character has always been Macbeth, and I actually used him in fanfiction MSTings, along with Aisha from Outlaw Star and Hyatt from Excel Saga. Fun crew. And since the comment room is looking for a topic, I've actually got something about Demona/Macbeth that I've been thinking about for a few weeks, and I've been waiting for just such an opportunity to post it. I'll do it in a separate post, though, as it'll take a while to type up.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with. This is an affectation up with which I will not put." -Winston Churchill
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 1:03:36 am EST from 68.58.253.131

Ed: Holy shit, man! And I thought what I did was bad. You're my kind of folks! We should talk more often.

Spen: It's in the TGS CR archives. Don't know the exact week, but I conducted my study at some point in June of last year, I think. But I'm too tired to look for it right now.

Matt: Wow. I didn't know people liked "Pendragon" so much. I'm suprised and secretly impressed that it beat episodes like "Sanctuary" and "Shadows of the Past." Also, how do you define an evolved character? I know a few people here who might have something to say about Xanatos placing first. Also surprised that there was a first season episode that got no votes, and it was one of the parts of "Awakening."

And I do agree that the last third of "Hunter's Moon Part Three" was quite kickass. Did the third act also have Jon and Robyn viewing the disk of Demona's plan? THAT part gave me goosebumps first time I watched it (still does). I mean, it doesn't make much sense to me. If I were going to commit genocide on that scale, I certainly wouldn't map it out in front of a camera. But Marina Sirtis just reads it so well...
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"In an interstellar burst, I am back to save the universe."
posted @ Wed, Jan 25, 2006 12:59:38 am EST from 69.174.1.148

Matt: Feel free to take it :) ARRGGhh!!! Now you got me hooked onto reading the old CR archives, so now I waste more time staring at my computer monitor ;P

Spen: I'm very surprised that "he who must not be named" (Heh) was repeated 48 times!! Sheesh, just imagine how much *good* dialogue could have been used instead of that pointless drabble. And I realized after I posted that *Dr. Nexus* (HOw do you know his name?? lol) is not the head of the Illuminati. But, in the long run it doesn't matter much does it? ;)

I too am surprised that "The Journey" did so poorly in that poll (Though only a few people voted.) I've always had a soft spot for it. I'm guessing it's because it's technically part of TGC.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 11:57:25 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

holy 5hit! was it really repeated 48 times!? thats more than even i thought, and i KNEW it was a LOT of times. damn.

"Previously in the Gargoyles Comment Room"> clever title, i think i'll steal that if you don't mind... beats my "This week in Comment Room History" thing...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 11:00:27 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Matt > Nice idea. There's always something interesting in the CR's histoty. Plus it might spark even *more* converstaoin/debate.

TGC and He Who Must Not Be Named > I'veo nly ever seen those episodes once (a couple of them twice). And i can honestly say that I completely forgot the monstrosity that was *that* episode. Right up until posters in the CR remind me.
It seems to happen at least once a year. We do insist on our yearly torture, don't we :D

Avatars > It would be nice to have individual avatars, that is, ones we have uploaded and use only for ourself. But I dont' see that happening here. It's just not that kind of message board :)
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 10:51:19 pm EST from 202.87.162.31

Avatar Pics : I myself would like there to be a Hyena pic here. Then I could have the same pic in both CRs.

Demonskrye : Hill Street is on DVD? Ye gods, if only I had fourty bucks to spend.

Ed : I'm very sorry about this, but I have to kill you now.

Purplegoldfish : According to Harvester, the name was repeated 48 times.

Matt : "i honestly am making Ramen noodles right now" That's what I had for dinner last night. And I don't even have the excuse of being a college student.
Holy carp, "The Journey" was second least favorite? More people must hate Vinnie then I thought.
"This Week in Comment Room History" I like the idea. Maybe I should do something like that in the TGS CR. It'd probably double the room size this week.
Spen
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 10:20:37 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

I recall the gist of that episode pretty well. It was bad, and one thing I hated was the oh so obvious pun of a name (not the right word, I know): "Pax." Could you be more obvious? It was bad. I think I compared Pax to a very meek and wimpy Xavier for some reason. Don't remember the Illuminati guy at all. Prefer not to think about that episode.

Course, I prefer not to think about any of TGC, at all!

*unclean, unclean*
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 7:53:30 pm EST from 66.168.244.117

The captain didnt want the gargoyles hurt, just to get rid of the humans for being so ungratefull. BUT the "viking dude" killed the gargoyles anyways......
Ethnar - [algalords_emisarry@hotmail.com]
FLYING GHEKOS WILL RULE THE WORLD!
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 7:51:14 pm EST from 68.121.86.66

Yes, that ad infinitum repetition of E--n P-x's name would certainly drive almost anyone, short of a saint, to attempted murder. Maybe that episode was a bit more realistic than most of us would want to think. :)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 7:16:27 pm EST from 4.245.22.205

haha, you must be real bored eh matt? ;) That "Previously, in the Gargoyles CR" (ooh I like that ;P) thing you posted was very entertaining, as I wasn't here. And thanks for posting that poll. It's interesting, a lot of those results I don't agree with. Sigh, I'm not surprised Brooklyn won "all around favorite" Y'know, I have a bunch of reasons why Brooklyn is actually one of my least favorite of the gargoyles, but I don't want to start something. Also, did he really evolve all that much?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 7:09:56 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Well, this is going to get interesting. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 6:15:17 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

because i enjoy reading the Comment Room archives so much, i've decided to start a weekly spot (lets say Tuesdays) on "This Week in Comment Room History"
if you guys hate it, thats cool, but it might bring up some fun memories and some good old topics when we are slow. enjoy!

2003-
Leo was 1st! slow week, not too many posts, and very mainstream topics. MacBeth not killing Canmore was the main conversation, though Canmore's wife, Lego's Bionicle, Freakazoid! and Greg's secret project were discussed as well. but overall, a quiet week in the Comment Room.
Quote: "It was called Lawn Gnomes!"-Silverbolt

2004-
Alex Garg was 1st! an average week in terms of number of posts. the main discussion was inspired by a comment on internet vs. libraries made by BrooklynXT the previous week. basically, everyone was more or less saying how libraries and books were better than the internet for information, though some good opposing points were made by a few. BrookXT felt he was being attacked, but in hindsight i don't see how, most people were not even refering to him or anything he said. meanwhile Battle Beast was anxiously searching for people to vote in his poll, and eventually realesed the results of the poll with only 92 votes, 8 short of his goal (see results in my previous post). there was also some talk about making a Gargoyles music video based on Dido's White Flag as suggested by Greg W.
Quote: "But it's still very strange (even if it was about thirty years ago) that I can't remember writing anything about mice living in the Eiffel Tower." -Todd Jenson

2005-
Leo was 1st! Yowza! what a week. one of the busiest weeks ever. unfortunatly, the vast majority of posts were made through intense fighting, debateing, bickering, accusing, condemning and quarreling with others. those posts not involved in that madness were generally trying to make peace in the Room or change the subject, unsuccessfully. the week started innocently enough with mostly discussion on who would direct and star in a live action Gargoyles film. then someone named Brian decided to ask about Lexington's sexuality and all hell broke loose. a huge argument about homosexuality erupted with Brian taking one stance and most of the posters opposing him to one extent or another. this argument spun off smaller arguments such as Gargoyle internal and external genitalia, sexuality in other animated works (Lion King, Little Mermaid, Spirit mentioned in particular), the timely Spongebob/gay/James Dobson thing had just occurred so that added to the mess, evolution was more civily debated, but still had a bit of tone in some of the battles, and finally Brian begin pranking people and causing more mayhem. a few people tried to keep out of the arguments by attempting to discuss things like TMNT, and Greg's recent ramble on "Ill Met by Moonlight" and notes for "Future Tense". eventually everyone calmed down a lot and agreed to stop fighting about whatever. the week ended with a surprisingly civil discussion on when Xanatos found out the Clan was in the Clocktower and time travel. if you have an hour or more and feel like reading through all these arguments you are welcome to, but i warn you, it ain't pretty.
Quote: "This room is threatening to drive me to drinking." -Whitbourne

anyone have any suggestions on what else i can report on from years past? hope you found this funny/interesting/neat.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 5:58:58 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Yeah, it really was that bad. I mean, I watched it once nine or ten years ago and it drove. me. insane.

Matt: Is that the royal 'we'? ;) I must admit, I did edit it down a bit! The original went Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon-- err, okay.

Poll: Interesting results. Bit surprised that "Eye of the Beholder" topped three "City of Stone" episodes and "Vows".
Ed
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 5:36:21 pm EST from 213.187.38.108

Greg B> actually thats a very good point. you could say that the episode even managed to brainwash us, and we didn't even have that "brain was chip" Goliath had! of course, unlike Goliath we never broke through our brainwashing, i mean, its been 10 years and we still hate the guy.

hey, just to add ANOTHER thing to talk about this week (i've noticed we had more subjects than usual this week) i found the results of Battle Beast's afermentioned poll from about 2 years ago. i was correct when i guessed that Xanatos, Demona and Brook were ranked both most popular and most evolved, anyway, heres the results if anyone wants to see them, we should do another poll and see if these results have changed in the last two years or not:
------------------------------------------------

Ok, Ok. I give up. I am going to conclude the poll now. I am, only 8 away from my goal, but here goes, so bare with me:

I've split the series into four parts: Season 1, Pre-World Tour, World Tour and Post-World Tour. All 65 episodes were available to vote for in each respective catagory, including "The Journey."

As well, you could vote for "Best Episode," "Favorite Episode," (I hope people would vote accordingly... the best ep should not always be your favorite) "Most Evolved Character," "Best ALL AROUND Character," "Best Moment," and "Least Liked Episode."

All listings will be top 3; (# of votes, % of total)

"Best Season 1 Episode"

1) Deadly Force (25/92; 27.2%)
2) Awakening I (10/92; 10.9%)
3) Temptation (10/92; 10.9%)

All Season one episodes received at least one vote except for Awakening IV.

"Best Pre-World Tour Episode"

1) The Mirror (44/92; 47.8%)
2) City of Stone IV (9/92; 9.8%)
3) Eye of the Beholder (8/92; 8.7%)

Five episodes (Lighthouse, CoS III, Legion, Outfoxed, Protection) received no votes.

"Best World Tour Episode"

1) Future Tense (37/92; 40.2%)
2) M.I.A. (6/92; 6.5%)
3) Pendragon (6/92; 6.5%)

Four episodes (Golem, The Hound of Ulster, Monsters and Heritage) did not receive one vote. The first three placed 4, 5 and 6 in the top six least liked episodes.

"Best Post-World Tour Episode"

1) Hunter's Moon III (45/92; 48.9%)
2) The Gathering II (13/92; 14%)
3) Posession (10/92; 11%)

Vendettas, the most dis-liked episode, did not receive one vote. All other did.

"Best Episode"

1) The Mirror (21/92; 22.8%)
2) Future Tense (11/92; 12%)
3) Hunter's Moon III (11/92; 12%)

The four episodes that placed first in each series divison (Season 1, Pre-, World Tour & Post-) were the top four favorite episodes.

"Favorite Episode"

1) The Mirror (23/92; 25%)
2) Future Tense (8/92; 8.7%)
3) M.I.A. (6/92; 6.5%)

Over half the episodes got at least one vote.

"Least Liked Episode"

1) Vendettas (10/92; 10.9%)
2) The Journey (7/92; 7.6%)
3) The New Olympians (7/92; 7.6%)

"Most Evolved Character"

1) Xanatos (39/92; 42.4%)
2) Brooklyn (26/92; 28.3%)
3) Demona (8/92; 8.7%)

Notables include Dingo (2 Votes) and Lexington, Owen, Reynard and The Magus (1 each).

"Best All Around Character"

1) Brooklyn (23/92; 25.0%)
2) Demona (18/92; 19.6)
3) Xanatos (15/92; 16.3)

Notables include Vinnie (Good 'ole Vinnie!) & Coldstone (2 votes each) and Matt Bluestone, Fang and All (someone voted for ALL characters) at one vote each.

"Best Moment"

1) The last 1/3 of Hunter's Moon III (The Kiss, the final battle Scene, Xanato's promise) (27/74; 36.5%)
2) Owen reveals himself as Puck (Gathering II) (5/74; 6.8%)
3) The first Stone sleep awakening in N.Y. (Awakening I) (5/74; 6.8%)
4) When Elisa is first turned into a Gargoyle (The Mirror) (5/74; 6.8%)
5) Demona's password revealed to be "ALONE" (CoS IV) (5/74; 6.8%)

Other notables votes include: Brooklyn prooving himself a good leader (Kingdom; 4 votes) Vinnie's cream pie to Golaith's face (Vendettas; 2 votes); Elisa getting shot (Deadly Force, 1 vote; Is that a good or a bad moment?).

_______________________

And so that's the whole poll.

You can see the full votes at:

www.geocities.com/oscarmovs/gargbest.html

Thanks to everyone who voted!!
Battle Beast
CanadaFriday, January 23, 2004 08:53:46 PM
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 3:24:44 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

It's been so long since I watched TGC, that I cannot even recall the annoyance that is Eg0n P@x. It's mostly faded from my memory. Guess, I'm a lucky one.

But, this I will say, perhaps that form of brainwashing is not so ridiculous. GOliath was probably listening to it for hours, wheras the audience got maybe 30 seconds... and following that, we all really hated the guy ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 3:11:01 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Ed> wow, theres a fun way to make enemies in the Comment Room... we don't respond well to ANYTHING repeated ad nauseum, particularly that name.

"hate the guy saying it"> i think in this case its ok to hate the Illuminati guy and Egon Pax. they both sucked. TGC had a FEW elements that would've been neat if handled correctly, like Broadway being interviewed on tv, but Eg*n P*x and the illuminati were not handled well at all. obviously, the Illuminati could've been handled very well in Season 3, but the Eg*n P*x thing was unlikely to work no matter who was running the series.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 3:04:28 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Incidently, Dr. Nexus was *not* the head of the sociaty. He was just inner circle.
Spen
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 3:02:09 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

LMAO at ED!! Though I don't think it was reapeated THAT much!

Todd: That's an interesting theory. But the TGC staff would never go beyond the surface like that heh.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 2:59:07 pm EST from 205.188.117.68

:::Stares at ED's post.:::

It was that bad in the episode? Sheesh, now my survivors guilt has increased a tenfold for missing that episode.

Todd>>>Cool creative demon, sounds like something Christine would come up with since the Illuminate are not the real bad guys in her ficverse.

I wonder if we are being a lil too harsh on "Eppy". Hate the guy repating the name, not the guy. If Dracon's name was repated as much as Ed posted, you'd hate the name as well.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim." ~Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 1:44:25 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

Ok about my post reguarding anime LA and the gathering staff or any emails that went out to patrick and Greg B.

I just wanted to apologize and say sorry. Everything was a big mix up. I should have talked to the gathering staff first. I really apolgize about jumping to conclusions.
I mis understood that they where including me in the gathering staff like family in the newsletters. I Jumped to conclusions, wich seems to happen on the internet. I did'nt mean to offend anyone.
So big appology to Jen I really am truely sorry.

On a lighter note everyone get your butts to anime LA and help us support gargoyles. ;-)
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
http://www.animelosangeles.org/
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 1:01:30 pm EST from 209.178.148.63

Shara - Aw sweets! I'm so sorry the Gathering Newsletter came off that way! We wouldn't even be going to Anime LA if it wasn't for all your hard work. The newsletter was just saying that the Gathering Staff (and Greg W.) would be there, we didn't mean for it to sound like we were the ONLY ones that were going to be there. This is all set up, thanks to you. We totally appreciate your hard work and I'll make sure the next Newsletter makes it clear that this was your baby! ::hugs::
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Jayne. You'll keep a civil tongue in that mouth or I will sew it shut, is there an understanding between us? - Mal, Firefly
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:53:11 pm EST from 71.136.184.47

Ed: You have just frightened me beyond coherent thought. Thank you. >.<
The Sadistic Cow
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 11:59:52 am EST from 70.50.217.73

ED! DUDE! Was that REALLY necessary!!?
Leo
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 11:14:24 am EST from 68.231.241.236

It was just like that in the episode, except that you couldn't scroll past it.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 11:13:08 am EST from 69.129.121.95

Come on, what's wrong with poor old Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax Egon Pax? Jalapena!
Ed
Why is there no Egon Pax avatar? ;)
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 11:06:42 am EST from 213.187.38.108

the Eg*n P*x chanting is what happens when you have a bad plot combined with a need to fill some space in an episode. when i think about it though, the TGC writer's truly had me feeling sorry for Goliath during that scene... of course i almost felt sorry for myself and anyone else watching it too.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 9:08:04 am EST from 24.182.146.1

I'd much rather hear Jalepana several times that Egon Pax.. he'd be on my list of Gargoyle Characters I'd kill.. right after that Illuminati guy.. along with 99% of the TGC characters...

maybe somebody heard "Xap Noge" several times and came up with that character.
Starlioness - [starlion3@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 9:03:18 am EST from 168.103.156.22

Just thought I would pop in to mention that Season One of Hill Street Blues comes out on DVD today. I bring this up because Greg Weisman has mentioned it as one of the inspirations for "Gargoyles". There's the obvious fact that it's a show about cops, who play a very important role in "Gargoyles". But from what I gleaned from reading "Ask Greg", it also helped establish a formula for working with an ensamble cast. I was too young to have seen it before, but I'm curious enough to at least consider renting it.

Also, if you're interested in supporting the Slave Labor Disney Comis line, Haunted Mansion 2 is out. I thought the work was generally stronger than that in the first issue. There's a crossover story with Roman Dirge's character Lenore which I hope may attract some fans of that book, though I personally don't care about the character and found the story pretty dull.
Demonskrye
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 8:40:50 am EST from 209.6.250.47

I've sometimes wondered how this hypothetical sequel to "To Serve Mankind" would have been received:

It turns out that E--n P-x isn't really the kindly and peace-loving old man that he appeared to be, that it was all just a facade (like the Weird Sisters in "City of Stone"). His real motive for stopping the civil war in his home country was that he planned to build it up into a military powerhouse and start conquering smaller and weaker countries adjoining it, and that was the *real* reason why Duval wanted him assassinated (with all the talk about "we want him dead so that the civil war will go on and we can make a fortune selling guns and bombs to the various factions" being just a blind to get the more venal members of the Society to support it).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 7:23:14 am EST from 4.245.16.120

new ASK GREG questions: Hah, you know this Psycho Girl is extremely annoying, but slightly amusing in that train wreck sort of way:

"4. So....I was wondering......what did Titania whisper to
Fox?.................Uhh......Mr. Weisman.......hello?.....hrm, where did he go?

(DING-DONG!!!)

Oh my, the doorbell! I have company! Yay!

(Opens the door to find Greg Weisman standing at the door with a baseball bat)

Oh my goodness! Its Mr. Weisman at my house! Have you come to tell me what Titania said?"

That passage had me LMAO for some reason...Ok it's late, and I become a moron when I'm tired ;)
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 3:00:19 am EST from 205.188.117.68

spacebabie: Actually the character Egon Pax *shudder* wasn't the problem. He was a president of some third world country or somesuch (who cares). The torture came from the apparent head of the Illuminati society (not Duval, but some loser in a cape)who brainwashes Goliath into thinking Pax is evil and sends him out to assassinate him. (And according the writers of TGC, repeating a name over and over is the way to brainwash someone O.0) In any case, you didn't miss anything by not watching this horrendous and pointless ep.

Btw, I think that was Jim Cummings doing that Illuminati guy's voice in what is probably the most obnoxious character with the most obnoxious voice he has ever done.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 2:37:29 am EST from 205.188.117.68

This 3g0n p@x character must have been pretty annoying to earn this kind of hatred towards him. I've seen maybe one or two episodes of TGC and one of them was the Journey.

Does Saying E*** P** name three times causes him to appear? Does saying Greg Weisman's name three times cancel out the evil of saying EP's name? oh heck, I'm just going to call him Eppy.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim." ~Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 1:17:02 am EST from 70.185.6.104

"the viking dude" LOL

the Captain wasn't TRICKED. he betrayed and thus was he betrayed. what goes around comes around. no one duped him, he had control of the situation and did not act. that was his sin.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:44:52 am EST from 24.182.146.1

NOT TO MENTION THE CAPTAIN! yes he betrayed the gargoyles but he was victem to human emotion and being tricked by the viking dude.
Ethnar - [algalords_emisarry@hotmail.com]
FLYING GHEKOS WILL RULE THE WORLD!
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:33:47 am EST from 68.121.86.66

Egon pax..egop pax....ego pax? hmm..ago pax?....Pax romana ago?..... hmmmmm i think! wait nope dont remember who that is ohhhh welll. demona is truly sexy but i must go for xanatos and mcbeth.
Ethnar - [algalords_emisarry@hotmail.com]
FLYING GHEKOS WILL RULE THE WORLD!
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:32:34 am EST from 68.121.86.66

Greg Bishansky>I'm not trying to complain or anything but in your post and gargoyles gathering newsletters, about anime LA. You dont mention anything about the gargoyle publicity site. You do know that we were the ones that put together the whole anime LA thing and got the booth approved by the con. also Contacted Jen who then got greg to help out. This took Much emails and talking to anime LA staff to get gargoyles, the dvd, and the gathering the publicity at this convention.
Only reason I complain is because this keeps happening. The gathering staff gives themself the credit and the credit only while our site has printed out the stickers and stuff to be handed out including having some of the old trading cards for people to collect at the booth. Publicity is expensive if you want to get the word out which is what we are trying to help do. But it kind of is upseting that the gathering staff is claiming credit for it all.

http://www.ka-blamo.com/cons

We are trying were just a small group of 4 people who like to promote gargs at cons, but please dont take all the credit for yourselfs.
shara
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:30:31 am EST from 209.178.152.242

*hears the Eg*n P*x chant over and over and over in my head*

watch your words there, *shivers*

Ask Greg morons> has anyone else been reading the latest posts by Psycho Girl... yikes, close the queue before her self admitted long ramble is submitted!

Avatars> i REALLY wish there was a pic of some member of the Mayan Clan cuz they are my favorite. but at this point i've had Cuchullin so long that it'd be hard to switch. i switched a couple years ago from Gabriel because Gabriel "gaygoyle" was using Gabriel and i figured he had more of a claim for it cuz his first name is Gabriel while only my middle name was Gabriel... anyway, Cuchllin works cuz hes pretty cool and very few people ever use him. i chose Bright Pale Yellow cuz it goes well with the pic, can't remember what color i used with Gabriel all those years ago, but it was a color much like Gabriel's skin tone.

Top Ten> i was thinking if i ever get bored i'll go through all the top tens of the past year and see who had the highest score, if i really get some free time and i'm really bored i can do other years as well.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:28:10 am EST from 24.182.146.1

Demona is definetly my favorite character. I've been here for a while, everyone knows this, and why.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:20:14 am EST from 65.33.202.237

I would say, hands down, cavemen. Down on the ground, those suits that astronauts wear weigh a considerable amount. Plus, in the world of the Dawn of Man, animals had to learn to survive in order to live long enough to grow to adulthood. So I imagine a caveman's skills both with and without a stone tool are impressive. All an astronaut would have would be limited mobility and Tang. Unless said astronaut is played by William Shatner, in which case they have themselves a wicked hammer punch.

Favorite characters: well, Demona, of course. Beauty and the beast rolled into one, with a deep psychological mess thrown in for good measure. As Greg said, "her own worst enemy." Far too complex to be just your average kid's show villain.

And there are other ways to get responses from people. If I were drunk out of my mind right now (like I had been the last time I did this), I'd say Egon Pax again, but... oh, dammit all.

*assumes a defensive stance with his corkscrew and a laser gun he "borrowed" from Xanacorp (and has every intention of giving back)*
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"So bring me my broadsword... and a cross of gold as a talisman..." -Ian Anderson.
posted @ Tue, Jan 24, 2006 12:02:26 am EST from 69.174.1.148

Well along the lines of Favorite characters we could also discuss avatar pics and what we would love. I would be pleased as punch if there was a Jon Canmore avatar, at least once.

And why limit the measurments to Demona? We could discuss Titania, and if she wasn't fae she would snap in half.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim." ~Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 10:50:58 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

You know the room is slow when the Top Ten is the subject of debate.

Okay, I've got some fall backs.

Let's see, there's the usual discussion of Demona's measurements. Always a great fall back.
We can talk about who would win in a fight between astronauts and cavemen.
We can make fun of the n00bs in ASK GREG
We can bash the Goliath Chronicles.

Or, how about we do the usual "Who's your favorite character and why?" I kind of like that one.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 10:20:02 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

In the TGS CR, the rule is that you can only claim one position. Also, CR admins don't count since they wipe the room.
Spen
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 10:11:02 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

dph was the 6th unique person. and i'm pretty sure we go by unique personage, if not, then i claim the 2nd, 3rd and 4th posts!
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 8:51:27 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Patrick: Guess it depends on your counting convention. dph was the 5th unique person to post but his was the 8th post since the wipe because of Matt's tripple postage ^_^

I don't think we've ever officially established how this whole thing works but I always assumed it went by unique personage :3
IRC Goliath - [goliath1 [at] pacbell [dot] net]
"Fire in the disco... Fire in the Taco Bell"
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 6:23:21 pm EST from 209.234.142.52

After this morning's performance, we may be holding a special seminar at The Gathering on counting to ten, as well. ;)

Thanks for posting that, Greg. :)

151 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Los Angeles, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no farther!" - Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of the U.S.S. Enterprise
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 5:38:16 pm EST from 66.72.200.235

It's Election Day in Canada - so if you're old enough to Vote-be sure and do so. Your Vote does make a difference.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 4:34:51 pm EST from 70.27.173.206

Matt> I know it won't help, but have a cookie. *hands over a plate of cookies.* It's the thought that counts.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 4:13:46 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

looks like a good group, unfortunatly i won't be able to attend again, i am in reality a struggling college student... in fact, i honestly am making Ramen noodles right now... *sigh*
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"All my life I've had one dream, to achieve my many goals." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 3:34:01 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

GATHERING 2006 NEWS! - From this week's Gathering News Letter!

NEW GUEST:

The Gathering staff is happy to announce the addition of Brigitte
Bako, voice of "Angela", to our ever-growing guest list. Schedule
permitting, joining "Gargoyles" series creator Greg Weisman at the
convention in June will be:

Thom Adcox - voice of "Lexington"
Edward Asner - voice of "Hudson"
Brigitte Bako - voice of "Angela"
Frank Paur - Supervising Producer / Director
Michael Reaves - Writer / Story Editor
Greg Guler - Development Artist / Lead Character Designer
Carl Johnson - Series Composer

To preview our guest list, visit:
http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/guests.html

There will be many unique opportunities to mingle with the guests.
Some will be sign-up events, with first-come, first-serve
availability. All will require you to be a member of Gathering of the
Gargoyles to participate. Don't miss out. Register now!

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/registration.html

T-SHIRT CONTEST - LAST CALL:

Attention all artists! We are currently accepting submissions of
artwork for the official t-shirts that will commemorate our 2006
convention in Los Angeles, California. We're looking for an original,
full-color design featuring our mascots, suitable for reproduction on
white t-shirts. The deadline for entries is January 31, 2006. For
complete rules and guidelines, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/tshirt.html

MASCOT NAMING CONTEST - LAST CALL:

There's a new gargoyle in town, and he needs a name! We are accepting
entries in the "Name the Mascot" contest by e-mail through January 31,
2006. The winning mascot name will be selected by The Gathering 2006
convention staff from among all of the entries received. The contest
winner will receive as a prize their choice of a Gathering 2006
T-shirt or a copy of the Grimorum Arcanorum Anthology. For details,
please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/mascot.html

JOIN US AT ANIME LA:

The Gathering 2006 Staff and "Gargoyles" creator Greg Weisman will be
attending Animé LA at the Airtel Plaza Hotel in Van Nuys, California
this coming weekend, January 27-29, 2006. If you live in Los Angeles
area, please consider joining us to help spread the word about
"Gargoyles" and The Gathering! For more information about Animé LA,
please visit:

http://www.animelosangeles.org/anime-la/2006/

HELP PROMOTE THE GATHERING:

We don't want a single "Gargoyles" fan to be unaware of The Gathering
2006, and we're looking for a few good fans to help us spread the
word! If you will be attending a convention in the near future,
please let us know about it and take a few copies our flyer along. To
download the flyer, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/flyers/gathering-flyer.pdf

If you have a web site, Livejournal, or regularly post to message
boards, there's another way you can help! Just choose a banner
graphic or link button from our web site, download it, and add it to
your web page, online journal, or message board signature line. For
details, visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/links.html

March 31, 2006 - The last day to take advantage of the current
membership rates of $45.00 for adults and $25.00 for children ages 10
through 14 (accompanied by an adult).

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/registration.html

March 31, 2006 - Deadline for story entries in the Grimorum Arcanorum
Anthology Contest.
April 15, 2006 - Deadline for art entries in the Grimorum Arcanorum
Anthology Contest.

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/anthology.html

May 22, 2006 - Deadline for hotel reservations at the Hyatt Valencia
to receive the Gathering's discounted block rate.

June 3, 2006 - Deadline for Art Show Registration

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/art-show.html

June 23 - 25, 2006 - The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles.

Questions? Comments? Contact us at: staff@gatheringofthegargoyles.com
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Gathering 2006]
Come to the Gathering
posted @ Mon, Jan 23, 2006 1:25:43 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

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